Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread can...@believewireless.net
We have the ring configuration with licensed links running OSPF without backups on the individual links. We spec our links to be as close to 99.999% at full modulation as possible. We continue to try to create loops in the network. For example, if you have a high-end commercial customer, sell

Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

2009-03-04 Thread Edward H. Winters
Marlon, Here's the simplest how-to for radio mobile that i know of http://www.dslreports.com/faq/14302 Ed On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:20:08 -0800 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Um, can I pick a location, input some information about my antenna at that area and create a

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Travis Johnson
Marlon, Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in over your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from someone that has actually done this type of work and knows what they are doing. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Thanks. Do you

Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request

2009-03-04 Thread David Hulsebus
I'll echo what Tom has said. I was successful in working with municipalities when was I was able to show benefit to them. Your constituents don't just want this they need this. Ask a number of folks who actually want the service to attend the board meeting for support. They heard loud and

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Mike Hammett
OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I liked the idea of running a bridged backhaul. Is that not practical for this? I'm hoping to have much lower latency and administrative overhead (less routes to try and keep track of). thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: can...@believewireless.net p...@believewireless.net To:

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Grin. You could well be right. I'm certainly into some new ground here. I'm interested in people's opinions and what they've done (if anyone has of yet) in the past. I can learn and figure this out. It's interesting to me too. But if you know of someone that is available for hire I may be

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Scott Reed
A little difficult to do load balancing on a bridge. No way to determine where the traffic goes. You still have to manage STP (Spanning Tree Protocol) to some degree to make sure you don't get loops. You don't have to administer routes after initial setup with OSPF. That is the point, OSPF

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Jack Unger
Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Jack Unger
You will need routing. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Gino Villarini
You can buy a hardenend L3 Switch that would perform OSPF Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Butch does a lot of work for me already. I'll touch base with him. Do you see anything here that you'd be a good resource for? laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:11 AM

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Mike Hammett
Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread 3-dB Networks
For 3.65 I'd say you need to look at Aperto and Redline... they seem to be the market leaders. My preference is for Aperto though (and not just because we resell it :-) The only Mobile 4.9GHz systems that I know of are Mesh based. Motorola's MotoMesh with the MEA architecture is probably what

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Gino Villarini
RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From:

Re: [WISPA] NS2 and EOC-2610

2009-03-04 Thread Pat O'Connor
I saw the same results a month ago when I bought a few of the EOC-2610. Make sure you're using the latest firmware. http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/resources.aspx?cat=7ID=246 That problem went away after I flashed them, and they work great. Pat Blair Davis wrote: Some

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Jerry Richardson
Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Jack Unger
Marlon, I can assist with any of the unlicensed (2.4, 5.8) or light-licensed (3.65) or 4.9 RF design work. Since you will be carrying public safety traffic, I'd go licensed on the backbone with 5.8 GHz backup as Travis and Brian suggest. For those full-licensed links I'd suggest contacting

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Mike Hammett
Then perhaps depending on port count required, the RB450 supports Gigabit, though I don't know what it's throughput is capable of. I'm not sure on the RB1000's outdoor ability. I'm not saying it's no good, I just don't know. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions

[WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

2009-03-04 Thread Mark Nash
We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP. In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs. Now they're at -85(ish) and not really usable. We've replaced several boards radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these radios), both at the AP and at the client

[WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers

2009-03-04 Thread Mark Nash
We have had about 6 of these fail in the last few months, whereas prior to that we don't recall a problem. They are 2-ft NM-NM LMR195 jumpers from Hyperlink. Anyone else have a problem? Any recommendations on best source for them? We normally only use them on backhauls APs, so when

Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers

2009-03-04 Thread Josh Luthman
I have used custom made ones from Tessco as well as the pre mades ones from Wisp Router and other places. The last few years I have not had any problems though it may have been due to the fact we put so much coax seal around them. Do you seal it with coax seal (or comparable material)? Josh

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this. PC based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has gigE ethernet ports by the gross. Then we can route or bridge as needed based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it.

Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

2009-03-04 Thread Jerry Richardson
One AP with one radio or multiple radios in the same AP? First thought is a wet connector to tha antenna __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.

Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

2009-03-04 Thread Mark Nash
One AP with one radio. We've gone through the moisture issue. Originally, Ubiquiti thought that the radios were taking in too much static and we needed to DC-ground each piece of equipment. We did that, bought new radios, but still couldn't get back to our original signal levels. How about

Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
We don't buy anything from Hyperlink. Not since they decided that everyone should have a 1 watt amp with a 15dB antenna. I get most of my piggys from EC/Hutton. I've gotten a few from Butch lately, no bad ones that I know of laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Josh

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Jerry Richardson
The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique VLAN. The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11 SSID/VLAN

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Hmmm, that sounds like a great way to do this part of the project. What hardware are you using? thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread 3-dB Networks
That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Gino Villarini
That would be the upcomming RB450G, Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04,

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread 3-dB Networks
Are you doing this with mobility though? How are you doing the car installations? What about LOS issues considering the low power of 4.9GHz? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Gino Villarini
Yes you are A dell server running DC will requiere tons of Amps ... Take a look at the offerings of Mikrotik Routerboard series: www.routerboard.com Specifically the RB450G and RB1000 both have gige ports, very low dc power consuption and at least enough CPU/Ram to run OSPF, BGP, even MPLS

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Jerry Richardson
In this case, it's 2.4GHz to the clients. The cars have Laptops with 3 radios: - Aironet PCMCIA diversity connectors and antennas on the dash - Cellular cards - Low speed radios The system on the laptop automatically tries to connect to WiFi first, then the cellular, then finally the low speed

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread can...@believewireless.net
The RB1000s we've used have worked well in outdoor environments. We've had them in cases so hot we have burned ourselves touching them. However, to start, I'd start with the new RB450Gs from Mikrotik. They are cheap and should handle about 200+Mbps w/OSPF running.If you need BGP, definitely

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Jerry Richardson
The network is a mix of Vivato and GO Networks, both of which are out of business. We are going to test Deliberant DuoMesh in a small downtown network to see if it will meet our requirements. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Jerry Richardson
It's not real mesh though, it uses WDS to bridge traffic from one radio to the next. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Mike Hammett
Right - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex

Re: [WISPA] NS2 and EOC-2610

2009-03-04 Thread Blair Davis
They do work fine. I have 1.0.30 firmware (2/5/09) on them and the rssi is still way off I'll try the 1.0.25 from 1/13/2009 Blair Pat O'Connor wrote: I saw the same results a month ago when I bought a few of the EOC-2610. Make sure you're using the latest firmware.

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List'

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
We're not looking for 100% coverage. We know that won't happen. We'll get as close as we can afford though. As for mobility that's yet to be determined. Back in 2001 when we first did cop car setups mobility wasn't an issue because the car would just keep it's bridged ip addy. This network

Re: [WISPA] AGENDA FOR MARCH 10

2009-03-04 Thread Tom DeReggi
Marlon, I feel for the point, that you are trying to make. Nobody wants to sit idle. But the reality is that we don;t control the shots, nor do we authorize the appointments. We can just request them. Secondly, If we had 5-10 people sitting around a desk in one place, for a day, I agree we'd

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Scott Reed
Not only is the power consumption an issue for servers, they are designed for a office environment. They run best at 68-75F, lots of air flow. Servers generate a lot of heat. Less if they are green, but still a lot compared to other devices. They also have way too many moving parts. Disk

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Dennis Burgess
You are right with the main line of severs. Something to keep in mind is that the PowerRouter's only moving parts are the fans to keep the CPU and Power supply cool . We have DC units now as well. The units run about 85 watts of power normally. *

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread Jeff Broadwick
BTW, we can do 12/24 volt DC with the R1 that we were discussing. Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full

Re: [WISPA] grant funds ideas

2009-03-04 Thread reader
insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Ross Cornett vp...@hofnet-communications.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] grant funds ideas I have yet to receive any

[WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

2009-03-04 Thread Ryan Ghering
I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan WISPA Wants

Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

2009-03-04 Thread Travis Johnson
The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is

[WISPA] Broadcasters sue FCC over white space broadband decision.

2009-03-04 Thread Scottie Arnett
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/broadcasters-sue-fcc-over-wh ite-space-broadband-decision.ars Scottie --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread 3-dB Networks
I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like the price if your trying to do it on the cheap. The sell to a city or county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can

Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

2009-03-04 Thread 3-dB Networks
An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message-

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Jack Unger
Good point Daniel. Anyone doing 4.9 GHz "homebrew" would likely lose their business when the FCC came knocking along with the Police Department that was sold the illegal system by the WISP. OUCH!! 3-dB Networks wrote: I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread 3-dB Networks
I'd just hate to be the guy deploying a 4.9GHz homebrew system that the police/fire come to depend on and have it fail on me and someone die because of it. Systems like these should cost a lot of money to be built very well. The FCC would really be the last person I would be concerned about. it's

Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

2009-03-04 Thread os10rules
Interference? Greg On Mar 4, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Mark Nash wrote: One AP with one radio. We've gone through the moisture issue. Originally, Ubiquiti thought that the radios were taking in too much static and we needed to DC-ground each piece of equipment. We did that, bought new

Re: [WISPA] Broadcasters sue FCC over white space broadband decision.

2009-03-04 Thread Mike Hammett
This legal action comes as the FCC was just starting to implement its white space order. The agency finally published the decision in the Federal Register in mid-February, announcing that its rules would become effective on March 19. And the Commission has begun talking to parties about setting

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread John Thomas
These will do what you want http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/routers/ps272/ps6990/product_data_sheet0900aecd804c207b.html John Marlon K. Schafer wrote: OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100%

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

2009-03-04 Thread John Thomas
Are any of the towers setup such that you could cross the circle? In other words, if you had towers 1 to 20 in a ring, have a secondary link between towers 4 and 16 for instance. This would require routing, and preferably dynamic routing, but then you would have some redundancy. John

Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

2009-03-04 Thread RickG
I made some notes when I first started using RM (attached). RM gives great results once you get the hang of it but for quick dirty just use Delorme Topo. -RickG On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: OK, I have that in there. Nothing happened. Just

Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

2009-03-04 Thread RickG
Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more? -RickG On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it...

Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

2009-03-04 Thread Ryan Ghering
ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED 40 to 50 meg full duplex. and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I get the bid for this project if I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm not sure I

Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

2009-03-04 Thread Blair Davis
I've been using Delorme Topo for years. you have to know your trees, but it works fine to see if a link is possable or not RickG wrote: I made some notes when I first started using RM (attached). RM gives great results once you get the hang of it but for quick dirty just use Delorme

Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

2009-03-04 Thread Brad Belton
I've seen Terabridge 5845's listed for $3000.00. That radio is a true no bullshit 45Mbps FDX radio. We've had several in use over the years and they are pretty awesome...1ms latency, etc, etc. They used to be $10k - $15k radios during their prime. IMO, they are still superior to most any other

Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

2009-03-04 Thread Travis Johnson
The Mikrotik solution can be done... but you will need a lot of clean spectrum to make it happen. At only a mile, you could use an RB433AH with a couple SR5 cards on each side. There is even an integrated antenna that will hold all of this, and provide vertical and horizontal antennas in the

[WISPA] The good college try

2009-03-04 Thread Forbes Mercy
The modern day WISP that is smaller has to run more efficiently, I lost my system admin in the last budget cut. He helps from his new job but the network is pretty much up to me, a former ISP owner and not the most technically inclined as I should be. Obviously I have more knowledge than the

Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

2009-03-04 Thread lists
StarOS will meet the specs of what you need to do. Two X4000 radios with dual pol panels will run full-duplex around the 50-55meg level. http://www.star-os.com/store/ Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Travis Johnson writes:

Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

2009-03-04 Thread Forbes Mercy
Mark, Yes we've seen this, we use NS2's on a variety of boards. We replaced the board, changed the connections and relocated the antenna. Weather doesn't seem to affect it and the calls certainly increase as the noise floor is approached in the -87's to -90's. We put in an Engeinus CB3 and

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

2009-03-04 Thread Jack Unger
Yes, but the system doesn't have to fail before the WISP who supplies the homebrew 4.9 system gets blown out of the water. All one person would have to do is point out to the City that the equipment that they have been sold is uncertified and illegal to use per FCC rules. What Police

Re: [WISPA] The good college try

2009-03-04 Thread reader
Forbes, I'm not far away from you, and if you ever need network type help, feel free to holler. I love the technical stuff. Don't much care for the paperwork or installs in the rain, or climbing ladders, or climbing into the bucket on the truck... insert

Re: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident)

2009-03-04 Thread Scottie Arnett
Mark, I am a little late on this reply, got backed up on list emailsanyways. http://www.farwestcorrosion.com/ccpcoatings/north01.htm They are called Saf-T-Climb. That is the type that are on the tanks we have equipment on. HTH, Scottie -Original Message- From: Mark McElvy