Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter
Kurt, Forget the Bird. We banged our heads too much with those. besides they are too bulky and not really for microwave IMHO. Bet one of these: http://www.praxsym.com/t-meter.htm We have two and they save us a poop load of troubleshooting time. They are about $1k each but they are well worth it. Bob Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone have any experience with a Bird 43 wattmeter at 2.4ghz? I have the bird 43 and am considering buying the 1 watt slug for it. This thing is going to measure the average power instead of the peak power. Should the Bird 43P (peak and avg) wattmeter be better suited for this application since it can measure the peak wattage? I just don't know what I need to be measuring in the WIFI application, the peak or average??? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sections /portable-wattmeters? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-section s/portable-wattmeters?forward=1 forward=1 Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter
Just to add if you get the Praxsym you can check SWR and cable loss on your antenna systems. Just FYI. Not knocking Varitronics just that they are only going to test power output of the equipment. Bob e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Problem with wifi stuff is it doesn't transmit if it don't have anything to say. So average measurement isn't that great since it will be based on you traffic how high the average is. You will be more interested in your peak since at least most wifi are predictable and the peak is what it transmits at and is what is interesting. Berkley Varitronics has their butterflies that are great testing instruments for an affordable price to measure output power. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:46:37 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter Does anyone have any experience with a Bird 43 wattmeter at 2.4ghz? I have the bird 43 and am considering buying the 1 watt slug for it. This thing is going to measure the average power instead of the peak power. Should the Bird 43P (peak and avg) wattmeter be better suited for this application since it can measure the peak wattage? I just don't know what I need to be measuring in the WIFI application, the peak or average??? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sections /portable-wattmeters? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-section s/portable-wattmeters?forward=1 forward=1 Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter
Get the Praxsym quad band meter if you do 900, 2.4 and 5Ghz Chris Cooper Intelliwave -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter Kurt, Forget the Bird. We banged our heads too much with those. besides they are too bulky and not really for microwave IMHO. Bet one of these: http://www.praxsym.com/t-meter.htm We have two and they save us a poop load of troubleshooting time. They are about $1k each but they are well worth it. Bob Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone have any experience with a Bird 43 wattmeter at 2.4ghz? I have the bird 43 and am considering buying the 1 watt slug for it. This thing is going to measure the average power instead of the peak power. Should the Bird 43P (peak and avg) wattmeter be better suited for this application since it can measure the peak wattage? I just don't know what I need to be measuring in the WIFI application, the peak or average??? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sect ions /portable-wattmeters? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sec tion s/portable-wattmeters?forward=1 forward=1 Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter
Used a Praxsym just last weekend. Had an AP lose half of its signal over night. Put the Praxsym between the radio and the antenna. Forward power 23dB, not the radio. SWR 6, should have been 1.5. Put up a new antenna and moved on down the road. Took more time to replace the omni than figure out it was the problem. Phil On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 6:47 AM, chris cooper ccoo...@intelliwave.comwrote: Get the Praxsym quad band meter if you do 900, 2.4 and 5Ghz Chris Cooper Intelliwave -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter Kurt, Forget the Bird. We banged our heads too much with those. besides they are too bulky and not really for microwave IMHO. Bet one of these: http://www.praxsym.com/t-meter.htm We have two and they save us a poop load of troubleshooting time. They are about $1k each but they are well worth it. Bob Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone have any experience with a Bird 43 wattmeter at 2.4ghz? I have the bird 43 and am considering buying the 1 watt slug for it. This thing is going to measure the average power instead of the peak power. Should the Bird 43P (peak and avg) wattmeter be better suited for this application since it can measure the peak wattage? I just don't know what I need to be measuring in the WIFI application, the peak or average??? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sect ions /portable-wattmeters? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sec tion s/portable-wattmeters?forward=1 forward=1 Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
location location location and location I have towers that hit very close to your 1000 sqare miles (18 miles with 2 to 3 megs delivered via ptp radio). There are only 10 or so subs on that tower. We have other towers that cover over 700 square miles and they service less than 10 people. It's not that we do a bad sales job, there just aren't any people that live there. On one of the NTIA sessions the other day someone FINALLY pointed out that even Canada has a higher % of urban vs. rural residents than the USA. Location Location Location marlon - Original Message - From: John Rock jo...@wirelessconnections.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Hey reader you are muddying the waters a bit here. I thought the days were over when people thought they could put up one base station and serve a 1000 square miles or worse put up one base station and server a 1000 customers. I have a customer in Canada that serves 12 Mb out to 45 kilometers via WiMAX, LOS of course. John Rock Director of Operations - Senior Engineer Wireless Connections 166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 ACCessing the Future Today!! ofc. 419.660.6100 cell 419-706-7356 fax 419-668-4077 http://www.wirelessconnections.net This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete this electronic mail. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I can get 12 to 18 mbit off my 5 ghz AP's, and with customers limited to 2Mbit, I'm still bumping into limits in the 30 - 45 range per AP, and even then, I consider it oversubscribed. Now, 18mbit throughput in 7 mhz is great... But how good does the signal have to be, and when the signals degrade due to distance or... How much effect does this have? What's the distance you can do 18? 2 miles? 4 miles? I need 25 miles... I can't even GO 25 miles decently with 3.65, due to eirp limits. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however. In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having enough bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 megabit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet
Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter
Wow that praxsym meter looks pretty good. How much for the tri band one? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:48 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter Get the Praxsym quad band meter if you do 900, 2.4 and 5Ghz Chris Cooper Intelliwave -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter Kurt, Forget the Bird. We banged our heads too much with those. besides they are too bulky and not really for microwave IMHO. Bet one of these: http://www.praxsym.com/t-meter.htm We have two and they save us a poop load of troubleshooting time. They are about $1k each but they are well worth it. Bob Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone have any experience with a Bird 43 wattmeter at 2.4ghz? I have the bird 43 and am considering buying the 1 watt slug for it. This thing is going to measure the average power instead of the peak power. Should the Bird 43P (peak and avg) wattmeter be better suited for this application since it can measure the peak wattage? I just don't know what I need to be measuring in the WIFI application, the peak or average??? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sect ions /portable-wattmeters? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sec tion s/portable-wattmeters?forward=1 forward=1 Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
According to the FCC you haven't deployed any 3.65 gear, so you must not be talking about the same radios I am. -Matt On Mar 18, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: We have a sector feeding 3 other towers that has been rock solid for 59 days now. Using a 10mhz channel, delivering 11Mbps at 18 miles. Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Yes, but the UBNT 3.65 radios are crap. Everyone we tried was worthless. On the other hand, every Redline 3.65 radio whether RedMax or AN80 has worked perfect. -Matt On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Wow. I have 200 UBNT radios out there and not a single failure, not even to lightning. These are 2.4, but still. I sure do like them. rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: I put up some Ubiquiti based gear, one of the radios died about 1hr into carrying traffic. UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight. I'll update. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. Take care leon Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm looking into this too. So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that tower Anyone have any better ideas? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5
I have used these Dead End Grips for short aerial runs without messengers... http://www.arrisi.com/product_catalog/tw_docs/TWS%20Sec_E.pdf Page 16, part # PRF 003348 Arris is a cable company supplier, and you have to have a minimum of $250 order, but they carry many more installation items on the cheap. Very inexpensive cable ties, markers, P-hooks, etc. I got the dead end grips for $.53 each (order qty 100). Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5 Here are some sample Aerial deploment products, jpeg of attachment (clampwedge), and water proof enclosure device. Hope this helps. Frank - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley jhens...@mozarks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5 Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole to a building - about 50ft or so. I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a messenger cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year or so ago, but can't find it again. Anyone know if this is available? I've found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6. Have seen both terms - aerial and self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me. Thanks! -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] FWD: Congress to FCC to airwave licensees: Use it or lose it
If this goes through, it may free up some of that much needed spectrum we WIPSs need. Scott -- Original Message -- From: d berns dbe...@panix.com Reply-To: Telecom Regulation the Internetcyberteleco...@listserv.aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:16:22 -0400 (I'm not so sure about the expense the article talks about in the last paragraph. Hasn't channel loading always been part of the deal with maintaining a commercial radio license?) [from WSJ] Lawmakers Seek Inventory of U.S. Airwaves Wireless phone companies scored a victory Thursday when key lawmakers introduced legislation requiring the government to take stock of how the nation's airwaves are used -- and whether some spectrum isn't used efficiently. Sen. John Kerry (D., Mass) and Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine introduced legislation Thursday requiring the Commerce Department and Federal Communications Commission to make an inventory in six months of how government and private companies are using their airwaves. Our public airwaves belong to the American people, and we need to make certain we are putting them to good use in the best interests of those citizens, said Mr. Kerry, chairman of the newly reinstated Senate Subcommittee on Communications, Technology and the Internet, in a prepared statement. We need to make sure we're making as much of (the airwaves) available to innovators and consumers as possible, he said. The legislation is a priority for the wireless industry, which is still looking for more airwaves to scoop up despite an auction last year of TV airwaves that netted the federal treasury upwards of $20 billion. Just a small fraction of U.S. airwaves are used by commercial wireless vendors like ATT Inc. TV and radio stations use a portion of it but big chunks of airwaves are reserved for use by federal agencies and the military. The idea behind the report is to identify so-called spectrum squatters -- both government agencies and private companies -- which aren't actively using the frequencies for which they hold licenses. If Congress approves the legislation, it would set the stage for the FCC and Commerce Department to try to reclaim the airwaves for future auctions -- a task that could be difficult and expensive. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123750147891089303.html --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
I have a single 3.65 Mikrotik system (RB411 with XR3-3.7 cards) feeding three remote towers. Rock solid. 60+ days now. 11Mbps. 18 miles. Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: According to the FCC you haven't deployed any 3.65 gear, so you must not be talking about the same radios I am. -Matt On Mar 18, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: We have a sector feeding 3 other towers that has been rock solid for 59 days now. Using a 10mhz channel, delivering 11Mbps at 18 miles. Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Yes, but the UBNT 3.65 radios are crap. Everyone we tried was worthless. On the other hand, every Redline 3.65 radio whether RedMax or AN80 has worked perfect. -Matt On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Wow. I have 200 UBNT radios out there and not a single failure, not even to lightning. These are 2.4, but still. I sure do like them. rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: I put up some Ubiquiti based gear, one of the radios died about 1hr into carrying traffic. UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight. I'll update. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" motor...@wispa.org; "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5
Be careful. If you go building to building with different power transformers, or even different meters, you can get current flow over the grounded messenger and or the shield in the cat 5. You may want to only ground at one end but the potential voltage will still be there at the other end and could be a shock hazard. D. Ryan Spott wrote: WOW! You realize you can use the messenger as a ground right? I have been looking for this stuff for a while. ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
No, Ketchup is a vegetable, Rutabaga is cattle feed. George Rogato wrote: Jeff Booher wrote: Mike, This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :) I thought a rutabega was a vegitable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5
I thought you were talking about that but the other guy was talking pole to building so I brought that up. D. Ryan Spott wrote: I was thinking more along the lines of CPE - down the roof/wall to the house ground and then the Cat5 (without the messenger) goes into the house... Much like a direct-TV/Cableco install. ryan Gary Garrett wrote: Be careful. If you go building to building with different power transformers, or even different meters, you can get current flow over the grounded messenger and or the shield in the cat 5. You may want to only ground at one end but the potential voltage will still be there at the other end and could be a shock hazard. D. Ryan Spott wrote: WOW! You realize you can use the messenger as a ground right? I have been looking for this stuff for a while. ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. Take care leon Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm looking into this too. So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that tower Anyone have any better ideas? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Because speed isn't everything. Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering packages of 7Mb this or that. Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb. Yet we still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer service around, and people liked using a local company. I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? I have a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb. Yet it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me. Now if I'm downloading files... :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. Take care leon Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm looking into this too. So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that tower Anyone have any better ideas? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- --
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
3-dB Networks wrote: I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? Now if I'm downloading files.. :-) I think you just answered your own question. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
If I only got two megs at home I'd move. I have 35mb symmetrical connection I am fond of. A lot of people however in our neck of the woods wouldn't settle for anything less than 5-10 Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 3-dB Networks wrote: I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? Now if I'm downloading files.. :-) I think you just answered your own question. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
On Mar 20, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Not sure how any of the above is relevant to 3.65 specifically or to where the thread veered off to. There is not going to be a wireless- based system that can compete with cable/fiber for residential use. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Well... I did but I didn't. You can have as big of a pipe into the world that you want. Heck our office has 45Mb symmetrical. But my downloads here are no faster at home because of the limits on the servers your downloading from... and heck just the internet in general. There is a point where no matter how fast your internet connection is... it's not going to feel any faster. Your router will not have enough horsepower to handle it... or your computer won't. At the end of the day I think people demand service. I'm talking about say 90% of the users out there. Of course the 10% that know tech are going to want all of the speed they can get... but do we really need it? Anyways... it amazes me how many WISP's only offer 1Mb speed packages... their base one being 128Kb. But in their part of the country that is what works. Wireless in cities saturated with Cable/DSL is probably best left to businesses where your competing against T-1 lines and Fiber. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 3-dB Networks wrote: I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? Now if I'm downloading files.. :-) I think you just answered your own question. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Might want to get a license for that. -Matt On Mar 20, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: I have a single 3.65 Mikrotik system (RB411 with XR3-3.7 cards) feeding three remote towers. Rock solid. 60+ days now. 11Mbps. 18 miles. Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: According to the FCC you haven't deployed any 3.65 gear, so you must not be talking about the same radios I am. -Matt On Mar 18, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: We have a sector feeding 3 other towers that has been rock solid for 59 days now. Using a 10mhz channel, delivering 11Mbps at 18 miles. Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Yes, but the UBNT 3.65 radios are crap. Everyone we tried was worthless. On the other hand, every Redline 3.65 radio whether RedMax or AN80 has worked perfect. -Matt On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Wow. I have 200 UBNT radios out there and not a single failure, not even to lightning. These are 2.4, but still. I sure do like them. rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: I put up some Ubiquiti based gear, one of the radios died about 1hr into carrying traffic. UBNT shipped me new ones to try overnight. I'll update. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use. Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end. I believe someone reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits. Why would I deploy gear that couldn't handle these next generation services? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Because speed isn't everything. Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering packages of 7Mb this or that. Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb. Yet we still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer service around, and people liked using a local company. I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? I have a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb. Yet it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me. Now if I'm downloading files... :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. Take care leon Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm looking into this too. So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that tower Anyone have any better ideas? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
I was referring to the magnitude in difference from what I'm being told to sell vs. what the competition is doing and what dial up is. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:40 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? On Mar 20, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Not sure how any of the above is relevant to 3.65 specifically or to where the thread veered off to. There is not going to be a wireless- based system that can compete with cable/fiber for residential use. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Well the Canopy 430 series is going to do 42Mbps... but even then how well is that going to work... considering your clients are going to have to be within 2 miles. I don't think you should have a realistic expectation that wireless (in a point to multipoint environment) is going to match the next generation demand. You can pray and hope... but I think in many ways the laws of physics are going to prevent wireless from competing with DSL/Cable... and god forbid, FTTH. Anyways... as has also been mentioned on this list... I'd expect in 5 years most service providers are going to charge by usage... so stream that 5mb movie all you want for three hours... but you're going to pay me for it. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use. Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end. I believe someone reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits. Why would I deploy gear that couldn't handle these next generation services? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Because speed isn't everything. Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering packages of 7Mb this or that. Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb. Yet we still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer service around, and people liked using a local company. I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? I have a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb. Yet it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me. Now if I'm downloading files... :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
[WISPA] Rush!!! need fcc link!! related to 3.65
Anyone has a link or a pdf from the FCC thats states the following: registration and installation of a 3.65 station would not provide a 1st come 1 served right ... Please! i have a meeting that i need this ... cant find it Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
If I don't expect it, why will the manufacturers make it? They seem to be happy to court the guy offering 1 megabit out of a $8k radio when anything made in the past 8 years could do the same thing. Do I expect to take Joe mainstream away from Comcast? No. Do I want to be seen as the dialup to their superhighway? Definitely not. I plan to switch to usage based billing, but I also want a system that will supply the demand. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:01 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Well the Canopy 430 series is going to do 42Mbps... but even then how well is that going to work... considering your clients are going to have to be within 2 miles. I don't think you should have a realistic expectation that wireless (in a point to multipoint environment) is going to match the next generation demand. You can pray and hope... but I think in many ways the laws of physics are going to prevent wireless from competing with DSL/Cable... and god forbid, FTTH. Anyways... as has also been mentioned on this list... I'd expect in 5 years most service providers are going to charge by usage... so stream that 5mb movie all you want for three hours... but you're going to pay me for it. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use. Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end. I believe someone reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits. Why would I deploy gear that couldn't handle these next generation services? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Because speed isn't everything. Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering packages of 7Mb this or that. Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb. Yet we still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer service around, and people liked using a local company. I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? I have a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb. Yet it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me. Now if I'm downloading files... :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Yes, service. If you can't service their desire to watch NetFlix, they'll leave. I'm glad a few of you see where I'm coming from while the rest of you sit in awe. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:37 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Well... I did but I didn't. You can have as big of a pipe into the world that you want. Heck our office has 45Mb symmetrical. But my downloads here are no faster at home because of the limits on the servers your downloading from... and heck just the internet in general. There is a point where no matter how fast your internet connection is... it's not going to feel any faster. Your router will not have enough horsepower to handle it... or your computer won't. At the end of the day I think people demand service. I'm talking about say 90% of the users out there. Of course the 10% that know tech are going to want all of the speed they can get... but do we really need it? Anyways... it amazes me how many WISP's only offer 1Mb speed packages... their base one being 128Kb. But in their part of the country that is what works. Wireless in cities saturated with Cable/DSL is probably best left to businesses where your competing against T-1 lines and Fiber. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 3-dB Networks wrote: I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? Now if I'm downloading files.. :-) I think you just answered your own question. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Rush!!! need fcc link!! related to 3.65
Gino Villarini wrote: registration and installation of a 3.65 station would not provide a 1st come 1 served right ... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-56A1.pdf 31. Each terrestrial licensee in the 3650 MHz band will have a non-exclusive nationwide license and be required to register its fixed and base stations.54 The licensee will be allowed to register all of its fixed and base stations under one license. A non-exclusive nationwide wireless license does not authorize operation of a fixed or base station in this band until that station is registered. Each wireless licensee will be authorized to operate on all 50 megahertz of the 3650 MHz band on a co-primary basis with other wireless licensees, and there will be no spectrum aggregation limits. As a result, wireless licensee in the 3650 MHz band will be able to use as much of this spectrum as needed for their operations as long as they comply with all applicable licensing, service, and operating rules. All wireless licensees in the 3650 MHz band will have equal rights to the use of this spectrum (i.e., no priority for first-in users), but all these licensees will have a mutual obligation to cooperate and avoid harmful interference to each another. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Rush!!! need fcc link!! related to 3.65
THANKS! Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:15 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: Motorola Canopy User Group Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA] Rush!!! need fcc link!! related to 3.65 Gino Villarini wrote: registration and installation of a 3.65 station would not provide a 1st come 1 served right ... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-56A1.pdf 31. Each terrestrial licensee in the 3650 MHz band will have a non-exclusive nationwide license and be required to register its fixed and base stations.54 The licensee will be allowed to register all of its fixed and base stations under one license. A non-exclusive nationwide wireless license does not authorize operation of a fixed or base station in this band until that station is registered. Each wireless licensee will be authorized to operate on all 50 megahertz of the 3650 MHz band on a co-primary basis with other wireless licensees, and there will be no spectrum aggregation limits. As a result, wireless licensee in the 3650 MHz band will be able to use as much of this spectrum as needed for their operations as long as they comply with all applicable licensing, service, and operating rules. All wireless licensees in the 3650 MHz band will have equal rights to the use of this spectrum (i.e., no priority for first-in users), but all these licensees will have a mutual obligation to cooperate and avoid harmful interference to each another. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Folks, I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation. This thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the market. What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they offer Wireless, DSL Fiber based Internet services in competition to Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc) along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the entire spectrum of competition. As many of you may know Canada ranks in the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th with 19.6% penetration. I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model. For the record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a 2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the first offer. All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer. What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up rate in an area. This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that we use to monitor production networks under a professional services agreement). I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate the maximum subscribers per sector. I then took the peak subs multiplied by monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream per sector. The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and other site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE required by the peak subscriber calculation. The ROI in months is the CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU. I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier using WiMAX. Cheers! Kevin NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers): Monthly Max Subs per Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX /ROI ARPUkbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded sector (months) $17.95 Essential 500 500 100040 25 640 $ 11,488.00$ 137,856.00$ 300,750 26.17949 $27.95 Essential+ 2000800 280040 70 229 $6,388.57 $ 76,662.86 $ 115,607 18.09593 $37.95 Performance 70001000800040 200 80 $3,036.00 $ 36,432.00 $ 48,750 16.05731 $42.95 MAX10 1 100011000 40 275 58 $2,498.91 $ 29,986.91 $ 38,932 15.57953 $72.95 MAX16 16000 100017000 40 425 38 $2,746.35 $ 32,956.24 $ 29,691 10.81113 Monthly Max Subs per Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX /ROI ARPUkbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded sector (months) $17.95 Essential 500 500 100030 33 480 $8,616.00 $ 103,392.00$ 228,750 26.54944 $27.95 Essential+ 2000800 280030 93 171 $4,791.43 $ 57,497.14 $ 89,893 18.76118 $37.95 Performance 70001000800030 267 60 $2,277.00 $ 27,324.00 $ 39,750 17.45718 $42.95 MAX10 1 100011000 30 367 44 $1,874.18 $ 22,490.18 $ 32,386 17.28027 $72.95 MAX16 16000 100017000 30 567 28 $2,059.76 $ 24,717.18 $ 25,456 12.35864 Monthly Max Subs per Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX /ROI ARPU
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Mike, I absolutely see where you are coming from. Internet usage is changing, and to keep up with it you have to offer higher throughput... at least at the base station/AP... to have a reasonable oversubscription rate. At the same time though I don't see how a vendor can create that magic 100Mb PtMP wireless product. Sure you could bond 4 15MHz Channels on the Canopy 400 series and come close... but do you have 60MHz of available spectrum per AP? I think what has to happen is to change the business model if you're in a region where you have to compete head to head with Cable/DSL. I don't see the wonder product coming anytime soon... and even if vendor X said it was coming... it would probably come to late as people are going to demand more and more. What is at fault is the as much as you can eat style of providing bandwidth... once that changes and becomes acceptable the gear out there today will be able to meet the demand I think. But until the big boys clamp down hard on usage... it's hard for a WISP to compete if your clamping down and they are not. Anyways... I think the equipment manufacturers are going to continue to push themselves to deliver that next best product... because if they don't someone else will... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Yes, service. If you can't service their desire to watch NetFlix, they'll leave. I'm glad a few of you see where I'm coming from while the rest of you sit in awe. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:37 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Well... I did but I didn't. You can have as big of a pipe into the world that you want. Heck our office has 45Mb symmetrical. But my downloads here are no faster at home because of the limits on the servers your downloading from... and heck just the internet in general. There is a point where no matter how fast your internet connection is... it's not going to feel any faster. Your router will not have enough horsepower to handle it... or your computer won't. At the end of the day I think people demand service. I'm talking about say 90% of the users out there. Of course the 10% that know tech are going to want all of the speed they can get... but do we really need it? Anyways... it amazes me how many WISP's only offer 1Mb speed packages... their base one being 128Kb. But in their part of the country that is what works. Wireless in cities saturated with Cable/DSL is probably best left to businesses where your competing against T-1 lines and Fiber. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 3-dB Networks wrote: I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? Now if I'm downloading files.. :-) I think you just answered your own question. David Smith MVN.net -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Because I can service where NONE of those other services exist... and I have for 10+ years. Residential users don't need more than 1-2Mbps. Our 512k package is FASTER than the 3Mbps CableOne service in our area (as tested by ZD Lab's benchmark program). Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Kevin Suitor" ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Jeff Booher" jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. Take care leon Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm looking into this too. So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that tower Anyone have any better ideas? marlon - Original Message - From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" motor...@wispa.org; "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I think you may be missing a couple of variables in the multivariable equation that determines the actual throughput a client can achieve in a given time slice. When comparing access systems one must understand the differences between the capabilities provided by the systems and their result on these variables. You harp on throughput when the reality is that ISPs don't sell throughput; they sell capacity. The Hmmm... Where are we getting lost? Why can't we just take what is said at face value, for as simple as it was said? I don't really know about the other users on the list, but I, for one, DO understand the concepts of how to share a fixed data stream and why the 802.11 mac is so poorly suited for ISP use. Mike Hammett and I both are watching huge amounts of investment being poured into WIMAX equipment that's designed to meet last year's bandwidth model and asking the same question.When are the WIMAX folks going to realize that we do not want to spread 18 mbit across 100 customers, we want to spread 36mbit across 100 customers. This is because the consumption per customer continues to climb, and the oversubscription levels we USED to use for planning are headed to be far inadequate.It USED to be that the 6mbit from an 802.11b access point was enough during the peak use hours to keep 27 people happy - because nothing they did was latency and bandwidth sensitive. So the page took 1 second longer, nobody cared.Now, 12 of those 27 people want to watch a 1 to 3mbit HDTV stream, while the others do stuff. And no, putting up an AP to serve 100 people with 18 mbit isn't the answer. We need that AP to work just as gracefully as it does, but instead of using 7 mhz, it uses 21, and will be adequate for the day when 25% of our clients watch TV over IP, talk on the phone, AND play games and surf... While the rest let the email run 24/7 and listen to streaming music. So, while you're arguing semantics here, both Mike and I are looking at this saying... Why invest heavily in equipment that is barely adequate for present?My whole solar powered sites do not cost $2000 and that includes the batteries and solar panels and radios, too. Currently, we're still looking at putting in nothing but 5 ghz micropops because they can serve 10-20 people with adequate bandwidth for all, even in the apparent future. throughput of any given flow is variable based on a variety variables including RTT and congestion. Most applications that end users care about are TCP based, which means TCP's congestion algorithm comes into play most often. One important aspect of a TCP flow is slow start, which causes flows initially to have throughput less than the capacity of the transport layer. Considering that much of real world traffic never has time to get up to full speed, the capacity is rarely full utilized. However, when multiple flows operate on the same access layer at the same time all slow starting you are able get more efficient use of your capacity. Unfortunately, most end users simply do not have enough flows operating at the same time lasting long enough to fully utilize all of their capacity. The unused capacity is what allows for oversubscription. In other words, by sharing the capacity across a large enough number of end users you can get more efficient utilization of the overall available capacity. Now the above may be nothing new to most of us, but how easily we forget that we sell capacity and leverage our client's inability to use all of that capacity because their throughput rarely achieves what is available capacity wise. This means we need access systems that very efficiently multiplex flows from an arbitrary number of end users. It is not about getting more throughput than the overall capacity of the system; it is about efficiently delivery the maximum available throughput when the end user actually needs it. Your basic 802.11 wireless system does not efficiently share capacity across multiple stations, which results in stranded capacity. Compare this to a WiMAX system that is extremely efficient at sharing capacity across all connected stations. No system can allow the aggregate throughput of all stations to exceed the total capacity of the system, which would violate the law of physics. Obviously. But that's EXACTLY what two people just said on this list. That they do. That's what I'm responding to. In the real world, end users can't use all of their capacity all of the time. Therefore, the more efficiently you can share that capacity across multiple users the more users you can support on a given system without negatively impacting their throughput when they need it.
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
On Mar 20, 2009, at 3:50 PM, rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Mike Hammett and I both are watching huge amounts of investment being poured into WIMAX equipment that's designed to meet last year's bandwidth model and asking the same question.When are the WIMAX folks going to realize that we do not want to spread 18 mbit across 100 customers, we want to spread 36mbit across 100 customers. I don't know any company investing huge amounts into WiMAX for last year's bandwidth model. For example, our WiMAX equipment is competing against NxDS1, which is this year's and next year's bandwidth model for every reasonably sized SMB. Go ahead and argue again that you don't sell to the same business or residential markets that those of us who have invested in WiMAX sell to. We don't want your market and we don't want the WiMAX vendors focusing on your market. We want them focusing on our market and we are putting our money where are mouth is ensuring the WiMAX vendors do focus on our market. The sum up the thread you want the radio vendors to make a product to enable your business model to thrive today and into the future. Whereas today's WiMAX operators have created a business model to thrive today and into the future based upon currently available products. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Depends who you are referring by stating wireless world. The WISP providers are surely NOT happy with that. They are just realistic about what they have available. And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal or greater value, to creat a WISP market. I'm also not sure the public is happy with that. I haven't heard one public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating Please give money to wireless companies so we can have slower service. Wireless will be a part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, so less people get left without being served, and more people get better service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification that can be gained today. WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up broke. I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty upfront (broke :-). We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-). The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them to work harder. The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the Truth is, we really aren't lazy. (I was just kidding before :-) So WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford today!!! There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish top penetration. Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill. But I think clever innovators should be able to fill it. $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping All Americans get next generation broadband. But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear. Lets start getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you go to get a peice of that $billion? Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals now. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Folks, I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation. This thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the market. What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they offer Wireless, DSL Fiber based Internet services in competition to Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc) along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the entire spectrum of competition. As many of you may know Canada ranks in the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th with 19.6% penetration. I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model. For the record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a 2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the first offer. All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer. What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
I think it was clarified earlier that with a wider channel you get a much greater reduction in effective range as well as increasing the required CINR to achieve maximum modulation. So while it could be made ( and I know of one company that did make a 20mhz channel wide wimax D product ) the question is the logic of making it. Now with 802.16e, you can see more throughput, but its in the downlink, not the uplink. Bottom line is- No one is going to make a 40mhz wimax product, because its going to work @ peak modulation for like, maybe a mile or 2? - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? If I don't expect it, why will the manufacturers make it? They seem to be happy to court the guy offering 1 megabit out of a $8k radio when anything made in the past 8 years could do the same thing. Do I expect to take Joe mainstream away from Comcast? No. Do I want to be seen as the dialup to their superhighway? Definitely not. I plan to switch to usage based billing, but I also want a system that will supply the demand. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:01 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Well the Canopy 430 series is going to do 42Mbps... but even then how well is that going to work... considering your clients are going to have to be within 2 miles. I don't think you should have a realistic expectation that wireless (in a point to multipoint environment) is going to match the next generation demand. You can pray and hope... but I think in many ways the laws of physics are going to prevent wireless from competing with DSL/Cable... and god forbid, FTTH. Anyways... as has also been mentioned on this list... I'd expect in 5 years most service providers are going to charge by usage... so stream that 5mb movie all you want for three hours... but you're going to pay me for it. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use. Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end. I believe someone reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits. Why would I deploy gear that couldn't handle these next generation services? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Because speed isn't everything. Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering packages of 7Mb this or that. Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb. Yet we still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer service around, and people liked using a local company. I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? I have a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb. Yet it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me. Now if I'm downloading files... :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Some simple numbers... $1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was paying out here. 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user. $170 cost of bandwidth per user. Users out here are not going to pay that. Period. The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost. These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and won't understand that. If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways. The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing. That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust their usage to what they are willing to pay for. Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or begin billing our users for them, it will kill us. The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out. Blair Tom DeReggi wrote: Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world". The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that. They are just realistic about what they have available. And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal or greater value, to creat a WISP market. I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give money to wireless companies so we can have slower service". Wireless will be a part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, so less people get left without being served, and more people get better service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification that can be gained today. WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up broke. I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty upfront (broke :-). We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-). The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them to work harder. The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the Truth is, we really aren't "lazy". (I was just kidding before :-) So WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford today!!! There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish top penetration. Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill. But I think clever innovators should be able to fill it. $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping "All" Americans get next generation broadband. But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear. Lets start getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you go to get a peice of that $billion? Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals now. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Kevin Suitor" ksui...@redlinecommunications.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Folks, I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation. This thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis together to see which service
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Um. Amen ! -Original Message- From: Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:11 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Some simple numbers... $1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was paying out here. 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user. $170 cost of bandwidth per user. Users out here are not going to pay that. Period. The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost. These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and won't understand that. If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways. The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing. That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust their usage to what they are willing to pay for. Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or begin billing our users for them, it will kill us. The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out. Blair Tom DeReggi wrote: Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Depends who you are referring by stating wireless world. The WISP providers are surely NOT happy with that. They are just realistic about what they have available. And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal or greater value, to creat a WISP market. I'm also not sure the public is happy with that. I haven't heard one public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating Please give money to wireless companies so we can have slower service. Wireless will be a part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, so less people get left without being served, and more people get better service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification that can be gained today. WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up broke. I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty upfront (broke :-). We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-). The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them to work harder. The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the Truth is, we really aren't lazy. (I was just kidding before :-) So WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford today!!! There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish top penetration. Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill. But I think clever innovators should be able to fill it. $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping All Americans get next generation broadband. But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear. Lets start getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you go to get a peice of that $billion? Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals now. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Folks, I
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Kinda high If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per meg. If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per meg. George Blair Davis wrote: Some simple numbers... $1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was paying out here. 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user. $170 cost of bandwidth per user. Users out here are not going to pay that. Period. The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost. These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and won't understand that. If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways. The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing. That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust their usage to what they are willing to pay for. Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or begin billing our users for them, it will kill us. The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out. Blair Tom DeReggi wrote: Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Depends who you are referring by stating wireless world. The WISP providers are surely NOT happy with that. They are just realistic about what they have available. And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal or greater value, to creat a WISP market. I'm also not sure the public is happy with that. I haven't heard one public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating Please give money to wireless companies so we can have slower service. Wireless will be a part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, so less people get left without being served, and more people get better service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification that can be gained today. WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up broke. I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty upfront (broke :-). We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-). The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them to work harder. The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the Truth is, we really aren't lazy. (I was just kidding before :-) So WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford today!!! There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish top penetration. Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill. But I think clever innovators should be able to fill it. $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping All Americans get next generation broadband. But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear. Lets start getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you go to get a peice of that $billion? Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
How do you want to count that Mike? Speed alone isn't adequate. If speed alone made a good purchase we'd all be driving ZR1 corvettes and Rouch Mustangs etc. Figure in cost per subscriber. Compute what people REALLY do with their internet not just how fast they can do it etc. Wireless is the PERFECT technology for a lot of customers. And don't keep shooting yourself in the foot. FIOS is also no good because you and I won't ever be able to install enough of it to make the kind of living that wireless can give us. If it were for wired solutions only none of us would have the phone services we have now (good landline and cell phone). Many would also not have fast internet connections. Don't go getting tunnel vision. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. Take care leon Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm looking into this too. So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that tower Anyone have any better ideas? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5
Pretty good catalog Mark Has some great aerial illustrations on proper hardware. This week we hung out aerial fiber from our noc to the tank. It was a 550' span 275' across a big creek. We used figure 8 fiber with lashes and as well as a couple cable messenger clamps. I had to use a 12' surf rod to get across the creek. Was fun work. Now I have to learn to terminate the fiber so I can use it. George Mark Nash wrote: I have used these Dead End Grips for short aerial runs without messengers... http://www.arrisi.com/product_catalog/tw_docs/TWS%20Sec_E.pdf Page 16, part # PRF 003348 Arris is a cable company supplier, and you have to have a minimum of $250 order, but they carry many more installation items on the cheap. Very inexpensive cable ties, markers, P-hooks, etc. I got the dead end grips for $.53 each (order qty 100). Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5 Here are some sample Aerial deploment products, jpeg of attachment (clampwedge), and water proof enclosure device. Hope this helps. Frank - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley jhens...@mozarks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5 Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole to a building - about 50ft or so. I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a messenger cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year or so ago, but can't find it again. Anyone know if this is available? I've found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6. Have seen both terms - aerial and self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me. Thanks! -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
I have a quote from Level3 for $12.50 per meg and it's 10x the bandwidth that Cogent is... ;) Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: Kinda high If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per meg. If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per meg. George Blair Davis wrote: Some simple numbers... $1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was paying out here. 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user. $170 cost of bandwidth per user. Users out here are not going to pay that. Period. The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost. These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and won't understand that. If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways. The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing. That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust their usage to what they are willing to pay for. Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or begin billing our users for them, it will kill us. The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out. Blair Tom DeReggi wrote: Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world". The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that. They are just realistic about what they have available. And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal or greater value, to creat a WISP market. I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give money to wireless companies so we can have slower service". Wireless will be a part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, so less people get left without being served, and more people get better service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification that can be gained today. WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up broke. I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty upfront (broke :-). We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-). The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them to work harder. The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the Truth is, we really aren't "lazy". (I was just kidding before :-) So WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford today!!! There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish top penetration. Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill. But I think clever innovators should be able to fill it. $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping "All" Americans get next generation broadband. But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear. Lets start getting creative with those volume order low price offers?
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Have you compared them Travis? I would appreciate real world opinion. Reason is, our upstream on our last contract had us riding Level3 and when we renegotiated, we found ourselves riding cogent. I'm not so sure Level3 is much better. I can recall trace routing stuff and finding myself hoping from here in Oregon to Chicago and then to San Jose. I was thinking Portland to San Jose has to be easy to do, but thats not the route they take. I realize things change, and I have no problem pay 12.00 for good bandwidth, I'm paying more now under my current contract. Guess what I would like to know is where to find the ratings of who is the best, I used to hear Sprint was quality, but that was just a few opinions. Travis Johnson wrote: I have a quote from Level3 for $12.50 per meg and it's 10x the bandwidth that Cogent is... ;) Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: Kinda high If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per meg. If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per meg. George Blair Davis wrote: Some simple numbers... $1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was paying out here. 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user. $170 cost of bandwidth per user. Users out here are not going to pay that. Period. The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost. These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and won't understand that. If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways. The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing. That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust their usage to what they are willing to pay for. Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or begin billing our users for them, it will kill us. The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out. Blair Tom DeReggi wrote: Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Depends who you are referring by stating wireless world. The WISP providers are surely NOT happy with that. They are just realistic about what they have available. And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal or greater value, to creat a WISP market. I'm also not sure the public is happy with that. I haven't heard one public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating Please give money to wireless companies so we can have slower service. Wireless will be a part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, so less people get left without being served, and more people get better service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification that can be gained today. WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up broke. I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty upfront (broke :-). We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-). The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them to work harder. The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the Truth is, we really aren't lazy. (I was just kidding before :-) So WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford today!!! There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers are doing their part. But I think last mile
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
I am on fiber. And this is the best deal I can get. George Rogato wrote: Kinda high If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per meg. If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per meg. George Blair Davis wrote: Some simple numbers... $1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was paying out here. 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user. $170 cost of bandwidth per user. Users out here are not going to pay that. Period. The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost. These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and won't understand that. If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways. The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing. That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust their usage to what they are willing to pay for. Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or begin billing our users for them, it will kill us. The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out. Blair Tom DeReggi wrote: Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world". The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that. They are just realistic about what they have available. And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal or greater value, to creat a WISP market. I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give money to wireless companies so we can have slower service". Wireless will be a part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, so less people get left without being served, and more people get better service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification that can be gained today. WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up broke. I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty upfront (broke :-). We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-). The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them to work harder. The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the Truth is, we really aren't "lazy". (I was just kidding before :-) So WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford today!!! There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish top penetration. Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill. But I think clever innovators should be able to fill it. $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping "All" Americans get next generation broadband. But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear. Lets start getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you go to get a peice of that $billion?
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
I have not compared them... but I have heard some big operators talk about problems with Cogent in the past. I just know that Level3 is very well connected (based on BGP sessions I have brought up). I'm not sure there is a way to determine "the best" provider out there. It's all a relative thing depending on your traffic type, flow, and if you are connected with anyone else. Travis George Rogato wrote: Have you compared them Travis? I would appreciate real world opinion. Reason is, our upstream on our last contract had us riding Level3 and when we renegotiated, we found ourselves riding cogent. I'm not so sure Level3 is much better. I can recall trace routing stuff and finding myself hoping from here in Oregon to Chicago and then to San Jose. I was thinking Portland to San Jose has to be easy to do, but thats not the route they take. I realize things change, and I have no problem pay 12.00 for good bandwidth, I'm paying more now under my current contract. Guess what I would like to know is where to find the ratings of who is the best, I used to hear Sprint was quality, but that was just a few opinions. Travis Johnson wrote: I have a quote from Level3 for $12.50 per meg and it's 10x the bandwidth that Cogent is... ;) Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: Kinda high If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per meg. If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per meg. George Blair Davis wrote: Some simple numbers... $1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was paying out here. 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user. $170 cost of bandwidth per user. Users out here are not going to pay that. Period. The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost. These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and won't understand that. If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways. The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing. That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust their usage to what they are willing to pay for. Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or begin billing our users for them, it will kill us. The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out. Blair Tom DeReggi wrote: Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world". The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that. They are just realistic about what they have available. And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal or greater value, to creat a WISP market. I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give money to wireless companies so we can have slower service". Wireless will be a part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, so less people get left without being served, and more people get better service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification that can be gained today. WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up broke. I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty upfront (broke :-). We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-). The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them to work harder. The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster
