Re: [WISPA] Crude dictionary attack via ssh
Patrick, I agree with that argument but I don't think anyone here has ever seen that problem before. IPs are allocated to organizations. If you block the Chinese hacker organization then how many subs are going to be complaining about that? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com wrote: Just to follow up on this thought, the main unintended consequence I had in mind was a customer running some sort of security verification suite against his/her own servers. If I were an IT employee using this sort of software from outside my network, and all of a sudden certain IPs or subnets can no longer access my company's network for some unknown reason, I would not be pleased. I would be expecting my ISP to get packets from point A to point B, not to babysit connections for me. If this feature were offered as an opt-in service, then it would be a completely different story. Of course, this probably isn't an issue at all for most residential and SMB customers. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Butch Evans wrote: On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 17:51 -0400, Patrick Shoemaker wrote: There's another linux program out there called BFD that does the same thing: parses logs and creates IPTABLES rules, but it doesn't use python. Google it and see if it will work for your application. Again, this is a good approach, but is (for my taste) a little to reactive. The approach that Eje was speaking of is more proactive. It is the same approach that I take when providing firewall applications to my own customers. It goes a little like this: Create a firewall for the router itself that will explicitly permit all of the traffic you wish to allow to connect via ftp or ssh. How you accomplish this is up to you. Watch for connections by ssh/ftp/other that are NOT valid. Grab the source address of those offending ssh attacks. In the firewall that protects your network, deny all traffic from those that were detected as attempting to connect to your firewall router. Watch for NEW ssh connections and set some reasonable limit for how often a specific IP may attempt a new ssh connection. You have to pick the right number here in order to prevent false positives. It's all about finding an appropriate rate of new connection attempts. If an IP trips the above set of rules, then deny them further traffic into the network. It's really not that complicated. It's not easy maybe, but not complicated. You simply have to have a router with some decent firewall capability (iptables based). Also, this might go without saying, but I'd recommend against applying any router-based rules to customer subnets. That approach is ripe for unintended consequences, and can create a troubleshooting nightmare for your customers. I disagree. Done right, you don't have unintended consequences. And even if you do, it's rather easy to take care of those as they come up. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Speaking of ferrite..
What's a good source? I'm about out and am not sure where we got our last batch from. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
We learned this lesson too. You'll be lucky to get half of the money. What we do is shut them off until payment comes in. They don't have to pay it all at once, but we require at least double the monthyly fee. If they miss, we shut them off right away. Takes a while to get them caught back up, but they usually do this way, those that will anyway. The most important part? NEVER let them get this far behind. 30 days late and you're cut off here. Well, when the girls remember to do it, sometimes it goes twice that, but they get their tails chewed when I find out people are hundreds behind One thing we DO do for folks is work with them. If they come to us and tell us that they are out of work, just got a divorce etc. etc. we will let them go way out. I think we've only been burnt once or twice on this. Most of the time people are soo thankful for what we've done to help. The girls can raise that issue if, during a collections call, people tell them what's going on other than I don't have the money or I forgot. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:40 AM Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
The repo antenna thing...you might want to have an officer join you. You do not want to get in a trespassing lawsuit. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Forward all of their port 80 stuff to a non-payment web server and they usually come right in to pay. After 2 months I'll go repo the antenna. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
Just shut it off. Tell them you will not turn it back on until some payment is made in cash or credit card. You can also probably contact your location police department in regards to theft of services. -Cameron -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
Same here. In our agreement that we can come on premises and get it any time. We also charge a $225 equipment non-return fee if they don't let us in, or don't bring us, the POE adapter. Most of the time that gets their attention and they get the equipment in to us. We DON'T let the client bring us the radio though - too many problems / possibilities for issues. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs Got that covered. Every customer signs a 4 page agreement that gives us right to come onto the property at any time. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs The repo antenna thing...you might want to have an officer join you. You do not want to get in a trespassing lawsuit. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Forward all of their port 80 stuff to a non-payment web server and they usually come right in to pay. After 2 months I'll go repo the antenna. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
We cut off non-paying subs after a couple of months - for repeat offenders, after the first month. They usually pay right after they are cut off. Martha Huizenga DC Access, LLC 202-546-5898 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/ Connecting the Capitol Hill Community /* Chuck Hogg wrote: I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
I would give them a deadline then if not paid on that day shut of their service. We wouldn't let them be much over a week overdue. In small claims you can file not only for the court fee but also a reasonable amount for your time having to prepare the case, filing and court time. We done this in the past but for computer payments not for internet payments since we shut down service within a few days after they are due. In the rare cases where it's been a billing issue where we forgotten or not gotten out bills we have asked for monies or simply cut our losses since it was our own mistake. Had one client that we had not gotten setup to bill because the accounting person had not been told by the installer that the install was done. Unfortunately we had provided service for almost a year to this customer before a routine users vs bill was done. We settled with them nickels on the dollar for service. But at least we did get some. We now do these routine checks much more frequently to avoid any such issues. /Eje /Eje --Original Message-- From: Chuck Hogg Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs Sent: May 4, 2009 08:40 I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
Forward all of their port 80 stuff to a non-payment web server and they usually come right in to pay. After 2 months I'll go repo the antenna. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
Yea, we did this, and we have repo'd the equipment already. This works for most of the users...our policy is normally 30 days as well, but these few got thru the cracks. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:44 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs Forward all of their port 80 stuff to a non-payment web server and they usually come right in to pay. After 2 months I'll go repo the antenna. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Crude dictionary attack via ssh
Very simple effective fix if you have iptables: iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -s your_subnet/21 -j ACCEPT iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -m state --state NEW -m recent --set --name SSH iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -m state --state NEW -m recent --update --seconds 60 --hitcount 3 --rttl --name SSH -j LOG --log-prefix 'SSH attack: ' iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -m state --state NEW -m recent --update --seconds 60 --hitcount 3 --rttl --name SSH -j DROP Replace your subnet with the IP pool you never want to block. After its working do 'service iptables save' to save it. This stopped all problems like this for me. Matt Spotted this a few minutes ago on one of our back-end servers. Didn't work, but worth noting. Tom S. May 2 01:05:12 QORVUS1 sshd[21728]: Illegal user lieu from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:13 QORVUS1 sshd[21730]: Illegal user lilly from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:15 QORVUS1 sshd[21739]: Illegal user linda from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:17 QORVUS1 sshd[21751]: Illegal user ling from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:18 QORVUS1 sshd[21754]: Illegal user lionel from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:20 QORVUS1 sshd[21761]: Illegal user lis from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:22 QORVUS1 sshd[21763]: Illegal user lisa from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:22 QORVUS1 kernel: multicast May 2 01:05:23 QORVUS1 sshd[21765]: Illegal user liv from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:25 QORVUS1 sshd[21768]: Illegal user liz from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:26 QORVUS1 sshd[21806]: Illegal user liza from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:28 QORVUS1 sshd[21808]: Illegal user loan from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:30 QORVUS1 sshd[21810]: Illegal user logan from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:31 QORVUS1 sshd[21812]: Illegal user lois from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:33 QORVUS1 sshd[21814]: Illegal user lok from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:35 QORVUS1 sshd[21817]: Illegal user loki from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:37 QORVUS1 sshd[21819]: Illegal user lola from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:38 QORVUS1 sshd[21821]: Illegal user long from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:40 QORVUS1 sshd[21823]: Illegal user lorena from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:42 QORVUS1 sshd[21825]: Illegal user lorene from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:43 QORVUS1 sshd[21827]: Illegal user lorenzo from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:45 QORVUS1 sshd[21830]: Illegal user lorna from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:46 QORVUS1 sshd[21868]: Illegal user lotus from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:48 QORVUS1 sshd[21870]: Illegal user lou from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:50 QORVUS1 sshd[21881]: Illegal user louis from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:51 QORVUS1 sshd[21888]: Illegal user luca from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:53 QORVUS1 sshd[21891]: Illegal user lucas from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:55 QORVUS1 sshd[21906]: Illegal user lucian from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:56 QORVUS1 sshd[21912]: Illegal user lucky from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:58 QORVUS1 sshd[21917]: Illegal user lucy from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:05:59 QORVUS1 sshd[21921]: Illegal user ludwig from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:01 QORVUS1 sshd[21923]: Illegal user luigi from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:03 QORVUS1 sshd[22065]: Illegal user luis from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:04 QORVUS1 sshd[22069]: Illegal user luke from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:06 QORVUS1 sshd[22089]: Illegal user luna from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:07 QORVUS1 sshd[22110]: Illegal user lupe from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:09 QORVUS1 sshd[22112]: Illegal user luther from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:11 QORVUS1 sshd[22114]: Illegal user luz from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:12 QORVUS1 sshd[22116]: Illegal user ly from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:14 QORVUS1 sshd[22118]: Illegal user lyn from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:15 QORVUS1 sshd[22121]: Illegal user lynda from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:17 QORVUS1 sshd[22123]: Illegal user lynn from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:19 QORVUS1 sshd[22125]: Illegal user lysa from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:20 QORVUS1 sshd[22127]: Illegal user mac from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:22 QORVUS1 kernel: multicast May 2 01:06:22 QORVUS1 sshd[22129]: Illegal user macy from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:24 QORVUS1 sshd[22131]: Illegal user mae from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:25 QORVUS1 sshd[22134]: Illegal user pwla from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:27 QORVUS1 sshd[22172]: Illegal user mama from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:28 QORVUS1 sshd[22181]: Illegal user maeko from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:30 QORVUS1 sshd[22190]: Illegal user magda from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:32 QORVUS1 sshd[22192]: Illegal user maggie from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:33 QORVUS1 sshd[22204]: Illegal user mai from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:35 QORVUS1 sshd[22214]: Illegal user maia from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:36 QORVUS1 sshd[0]: Illegal user makoto from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:38 QORVUS1 sshd[3]: Illegal user mallory from 213.165.154.53 May 2 01:06:40 QORVUS1
Re: [WISPA] Crude dictionary attack via ssh
Just to follow up on this thought, the main unintended consequence I had in mind was a customer running some sort of security verification suite against his/her own servers. If I were an IT employee using this sort of software from outside my network, and all of a sudden certain IPs or subnets can no longer access my company's network for some unknown reason, I would not be pleased. I would be expecting my ISP to get packets from point A to point B, not to babysit connections for me. If this feature were offered as an opt-in service, then it would be a completely different story. Of course, this probably isn't an issue at all for most residential and SMB customers. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Butch Evans wrote: On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 17:51 -0400, Patrick Shoemaker wrote: There's another linux program out there called BFD that does the same thing: parses logs and creates IPTABLES rules, but it doesn't use python. Google it and see if it will work for your application. Again, this is a good approach, but is (for my taste) a little to reactive. The approach that Eje was speaking of is more proactive. It is the same approach that I take when providing firewall applications to my own customers. It goes a little like this: Create a firewall for the router itself that will explicitly permit all of the traffic you wish to allow to connect via ftp or ssh. How you accomplish this is up to you. Watch for connections by ssh/ftp/other that are NOT valid. Grab the source address of those offending ssh attacks. In the firewall that protects your network, deny all traffic from those that were detected as attempting to connect to your firewall router. Watch for NEW ssh connections and set some reasonable limit for how often a specific IP may attempt a new ssh connection. You have to pick the right number here in order to prevent false positives. It's all about finding an appropriate rate of new connection attempts. If an IP trips the above set of rules, then deny them further traffic into the network. It's really not that complicated. It's not easy maybe, but not complicated. You simply have to have a router with some decent firewall capability (iptables based). Also, this might go without saying, but I'd recommend against applying any router-based rules to customer subnets. That approach is ripe for unintended consequences, and can create a troubleshooting nightmare for your customers. I disagree. Done right, you don't have unintended consequences. And even if you do, it's rather easy to take care of those as they come up. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
Got that covered. Every customer signs a 4 page agreement that gives us right to come onto the property at any time. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs The repo antenna thing...you might want to have an officer join you. You do not want to get in a trespassing lawsuit. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Forward all of their port 80 stuff to a non-payment web server and they usually come right in to pay. After 2 months I'll go repo the antenna. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Crude dictionary attack via ssh
I was thinking of the case where the IT person is running the security audit tool from a trusted network, like a branch office or their home connection. Probably an obscure case. But annoying if a customer ever gets burned by it. My philosophy is that the ISP should be responsible for the most basic network-level protections, such as uRPF enforcement, blocking RFC1918 address space, etc. Any fiddling above layer 3 should be done on an opt-in basis. This is what works for my customer base (no residential), YMMV. Not saying it's what should be done in every case. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Josh Luthman wrote: Patrick, I agree with that argument but I don't think anyone here has ever seen that problem before. IPs are allocated to organizations. If you block the Chinese hacker organization then how many subs are going to be complaining about that? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com wrote: Just to follow up on this thought, the main unintended consequence I had in mind was a customer running some sort of security verification suite against his/her own servers. If I were an IT employee using this sort of software from outside my network, and all of a sudden certain IPs or subnets can no longer access my company's network for some unknown reason, I would not be pleased. I would be expecting my ISP to get packets from point A to point B, not to babysit connections for me. If this feature were offered as an opt-in service, then it would be a completely different story. Of course, this probably isn't an issue at all for most residential and SMB customers. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Butch Evans wrote: On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 17:51 -0400, Patrick Shoemaker wrote: There's another linux program out there called BFD that does the same thing: parses logs and creates IPTABLES rules, but it doesn't use python. Google it and see if it will work for your application. Again, this is a good approach, but is (for my taste) a little to reactive. The approach that Eje was speaking of is more proactive. It is the same approach that I take when providing firewall applications to my own customers. It goes a little like this: Create a firewall for the router itself that will explicitly permit all of the traffic you wish to allow to connect via ftp or ssh. How you accomplish this is up to you. Watch for connections by ssh/ftp/other that are NOT valid. Grab the source address of those offending ssh attacks. In the firewall that protects your network, deny all traffic from those that were detected as attempting to connect to your firewall router. Watch for NEW ssh connections and set some reasonable limit for how often a specific IP may attempt a new ssh connection. You have to pick the right number here in order to prevent false positives. It's all about finding an appropriate rate of new connection attempts. If an IP trips the above set of rules, then deny them further traffic into the network. It's really not that complicated. It's not easy maybe, but not complicated. You simply have to have a router with some decent firewall capability (iptables based). Also, this might go without saying, but I'd recommend against applying any router-based rules to customer subnets. That approach is ripe for unintended consequences, and can create a troubleshooting nightmare for your customers. I disagree. Done right, you don't have unintended consequences. And even if you do, it's rather easy to take care of those as they come up. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
Most people get shut off a month after their bill is due. If they say they are paying and aren't then they aren't taking you serious, I suggest shutting them off. You can find some collection agencies that will cost ONLY a percentage of what they earn (read those contracts VERY carefully). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
In my personal experience, give it to collections, write it off, then blacklist them. Better to get 50% than nothing (with the collections agent that is). Small claims, as you already mentioned, isn't worth it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs Yea, we did this, and we have repo'd the equipment already. This works for most of the users...our policy is normally 30 days as well, but these few got thru the cracks. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:44 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs Forward all of their port 80 stuff to a non-payment web server and they usually come right in to pay. After 2 months I'll go repo the antenna. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
A forced payment page works pretty well, they can get on but have to pay before they browse. -Layne Layne Sisk ServerPlus -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Crude dictionary attack via ssh
On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 09:37 -0400, Patrick Shoemaker wrote: Just to follow up on this thought, the main unintended consequence I had in mind was a customer running some sort of security verification suite against his/her own servers. If I were an IT employee using this sort of software from outside my network, and all of a sudden certain IPs or subnets can no longer access my company's network for some unknown reason, I would not be pleased. I would be expecting my ISP to get packets from point A to point B, not to babysit connections for me. While I agree that this scenario is an accurate example of one that would create a false positive to the method I use, it is a stretch to call it normal. I'd bet that if we took a poll here, that we'd find that over 90% (maybe more) of the customer base represented is residential. Additionally, I suspect that at least 80% of the business accounts represented here would not create a false positive. This leaves only 2% in the at risk category. It's a very small risk, in my opinion. Furthermore, I've installed this type of solution at the headend of at least 80 networks. Some of these have been running for at least 2 years. I have yet to hear a complaint from my customers (the ISPs). I think that if we assume the 2% number above is accurate (it may be very high), that it is worth the risk to prevent the propagation of this attack mechanism. That's what these things do, by the way. Once a successful login occurs, that machine becomes a bot that is performing the ssh attack itself. Not only does it do that, but it is a likely host to become a spambot as well. It may be that your specific situation makes this approach the wrong choice. If it does, I can only say that your network is an exception and not the rule in this case. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Speaking of ferrite..
A month or so ago I sent out a link to item on Mousers website. You could get it from Digi-Key as well but I like mouser better and their website is easier to work with as well. Just go to mouser.com and do a quick search for ferrite bead or ferrule. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:35 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Speaking of ferrite.. What's a good source? I'm about out and am not sure where we got our last batch from. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
wowMonths huh? That's bad... A couple of things we do long rant/reply 1. We charge one months security fee up front. That protects us during the billing cycle. At the end of 30 days they get an e-mail or phone call about being in arrears. No payment in 10 days Off they go. $50 reconnect charge to go back on. The chronic customers pay that. It gets waived for the first time in most cases. 2. The contract states that the equipment will be removed upon termination or 30 days after default. We send the customer a registered, certified letter requesting three dates and times we can come and remove the equipment. These have to be during regular business hours. If they fail to reply it goes on the bill. We will not go on the customers property and retrieve equipment without approval because there is no way to know if the property is owned by them or leased. Always make sure there are two people when making equipment collections. Preferably someone who will be articulate in court or in front of a cop if something goes sour during the removal attempt. 3. Our contract states they own everything as part of the initial installation fee except the radio and antenna. We never remove cabling or mounts because we don't want to hear since you removed the cable my roof leaks BS. 4. The contract states that the subscriber unit is worth $850. That includes the radio, the time it takes to order it, the time it takes to program it, the time it takes to engineer the radio into the network and PROFIT. After all, that is why you are in business. 5. Finally.EVERYONE goes to small claims court. I don't waste my time with collection agencies. Some of these guys could be more detrimental to your business than court. I don't let anyone walk away with MY money. I did what I said, we had an agreement, they signed and approved it and they did not do their part. Stand your ground. There are too many people out there that think they can get away with not paying. This is not the way it use to be but the world is a changing boys and girls. Keep good records and make a paper trail leading to their door. No threats or accusations towards the customer. Its real simpleI just want my money and we will turn the system back on and we will act like nothing ever happened (until next month when that customer may try it again). And we NEVER let anyone out of the contract without paying SOMETHING. Again, you did your part now its time for the customer to do theirs. If you purchased a nice new truck last year you can't just say I don't want it anymore and I am not going to make any more payments, let me out of my contract. WRONG!Just because your contract is only for $59 a month or something similar does not mean it should not be any more enforced than their mortgage contract. Its YOUR MONEY...NOT THERES. In closing, my experience is that most people get the paperwork from the court and the check comes in a few days later. You may also offer the customer 80 cents on the dollar as a good faith gesture just prior to going to court to settle the case. Judges and administrative law/hearing officers love to see an effort on your part to lighten the courts calendar load and settle your own disputes. It is one more thing that will shine on your behalf when you finally make the appearance before the court. BTW: After 14 cases in small claims court I have only not succeeded in one case where the terms for determination of dispute was arbitration. The court stated it had no jurisdiction and referred us to arbitration and we elected not to pursue the case because arbitration is EXPENSIVE! Don't ever sign a contract that states issues will be resolved by arbitration. Don't be afraid.Its your money...GO GET IT. Good Luck Bob Chuck Hogg wrote: I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
I agree with the work with them part here. I am not totally heartless. People have problems and I am understanding but when people stop communicating the buck stops there. Marlon...If I had half of your money I would give everyone free Internet service! :-) -B- Marlon K. Schafer wrote: We learned this lesson too. You'll be lucky to get half of the money. What we do is shut them off until payment comes in. They don't have to pay it all at once, but we require at least double the monthyly fee. If they miss, we shut them off right away. Takes a while to get them caught back up, but they usually do this way, those that will anyway. The most important part? NEVER let them get this far behind. 30 days late and you're cut off here. Well, when the girls remember to do it, sometimes it goes twice that, but they get their tails chewed when I find out people are hundreds behind One thing we DO do for folks is work with them. If they come to us and tell us that they are out of work, just got a divorce etc. etc. we will let them go way out. I think we've only been burnt once or twice on this. Most of the time people are soo thankful for what we've done to help. The girls can raise that issue if, during a collections call, people tell them what's going on other than I don't have the money or I forgot. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:40 AM Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
We put them on hold through our billing system (5 days for a residential customer type), I'm using PPPoE to auth/shape the users. When I put them on hold, I also assign new values for their DNS server IP addresses via radius, they point to a redirecting DNS I have setup, so any site they try to go to, sends them to a static page, which lets them know their payment is overdue, and I also have a link to my payment page so they can make payment. This works very well, almost too well, because some customers rely on making payments once they get the on hold page now, but it seems to keep our customers happier, and also saves us from some angry telephone calls. If it's a wireless client, we turn them off after 10 days, and schedule a radio pickup. Regards Michael Baird It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
What billing system do you use? Sounds like it's Platypus maybe? Do you have it automated to change their DNS values from the billing system, or do you do that manually? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 1:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs We put them on hold through our billing system (5 days for a residential customer type), I'm using PPPoE to auth/shape the users. When I put them on hold, I also assign new values for their DNS server IP addresses via radius, they point to a redirecting DNS I have setup, so any site they try to go to, sends them to a static page, which lets them know their payment is overdue, and I also have a link to my payment page so they can make payment. This works very well, almost too well, because some customers rely on making payments once they get the on hold page now, but it seems to keep our customers happier, and also saves us from some angry telephone calls. If it's a wireless client, we turn them off after 10 days, and schedule a radio pickup. Regards Michael Baird It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
I asked in Indiana for a police officer to go with me a couple of years back and was told it is a civil matter - since they had a contract with us and until you go to court to prove they are in breach you are out of luck. It took a year, a few continuances, and IIRC $50 filing fee. By the time the court date finally came up they had moved to Ohio with my equipment. Dave Josh Luthman wrote: The repo antenna thing...you might want to have an officer join you. You do not want to get in a trespassing lawsuit. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Forward all of their port 80 stuff to a non-payment web server and they usually come right in to pay. After 2 months I'll go repo the antenna. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
Chuck Hogg wrote: I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. How about something more creative, like this? http://www.ex-parrot.com/pete/upside-down-ternet.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
We use Optigold for now, although we are in the process of looking for a unified data/voice billing solution. Optigold allows you to define these actions within the billing system, I'm somewhat of a coder and I've written my own radius, which I hooked to a SQL database, I just set flags for the customer in the table, and have my radius server assign the attributes upon reauth (when a user goes on hold I kick them off the redback, and they reauth with the new attributes). It's all totally automated, we are primarily a DSL/Telco provider, that has recently added wireless, we just applied our previous methodology to wireless when we redid the wireless network we aquired (they were previously DHCP based, mac address list, no automation, poor records). Any decent billing system should allow external scripting for different events. Regards Michael Baird What billing system do you use? Sounds like it's Platypus maybe? Do you have it automated to change their DNS values from the billing system, or do you do that manually? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 1:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs We put them on hold through our billing system (5 days for a residential customer type), I'm using PPPoE to auth/shape the users. When I put them on hold, I also assign new values for their DNS server IP addresses via radius, they point to a redirecting DNS I have setup, so any site they try to go to, sends them to a static page, which lets them know their payment is overdue, and I also have a link to my payment page so they can make payment. This works very well, almost too well, because some customers rely on making payments once they get the on hold page now, but it seems to keep our customers happier, and also saves us from some angry telephone calls. If it's a wireless client, we turn them off after 10 days, and schedule a radio pickup. Regards Michael Baird It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Indoor CPE install / window glass type determination
All, Thinking of doing simple indoor installs for short clients 1mi. Is anyone else doing this? any tips or suggestions? I have seen what happens when a home has 'low e' windows! Having lead in the glass makes a very effective microwave shield. Is there an easy way to identify these windows in a home? Would be nice to find out from customer ahead of time if possible. is there a simple tool for the installer to save time identifying these windows? Thanks in Advance, Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor CPE install / window glass type determination
I would advise against doing it. If the CPE is inside it makes fixing customer problems harder (especially 900MHz/2.4GHz since the noise has even less barriers to the CPE) and makes it that the customer has to be home to work on the CPE or to deinstall the CPE. Sounds like your opening up a can of worms... and I'm not sure what the gain would be (sure quicker installs, but the customer is paying for that right?). I cringe at the thought of customer installed CPE's... With that said I have installed Canopy SM's through windows occasionally for special circumstances and have had little issues with them... besides of course tinted windows or energy efficient windows (but depending on distance it might not be an issue). I've even deployed 2.4GHz Wi-Fi based gear in attics with absolutely no-LOS... once again not recommended but you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Indoor CPE install / window glass type determination All, Thinking of doing simple indoor installs for short clients 1mi. Is anyone else doing this? any tips or suggestions? I have seen what happens when a home has 'low e' windows! Having lead in the glass makes a very effective microwave shield. Is there an easy way to identify these windows in a home? Would be nice to find out from customer ahead of time if possible. is there a simple tool for the installer to save time identifying these windows? Thanks in Advance, Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
Shut them down... If you can, redirect all web access to a page saying You have been cut off for non-payment. Chuck Hogg wrote: I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
I've had moderate success just making a personal visit to see how the people are doing. If they're out of a job and no income, we cut the bandwidth way down and suspend billing for a while. If internet can help them get a job, then it's in our interest to do this. Generally, we have pretty good success with a personal visit. I'm not confrontational, but explain that we really do expect to be paid and the customer's generally pretty good at paying when they see it as a matter of personal importance. Other than that, we've not found that notes, or emails works well. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:40 AM Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
We work with people too. But I don't go visit them. I have the shop do the calling, Only thing I do is go get my stuff back. Only one time did anyone ever give me the trespassing story and that was a guy who was hoping to hold it ransom for some kind of a refund. It's a a gray area Been pretty lucky that we have not had many bad broadband subs. Dial up, we had every scammer dead beat and whiner in our town at one time or another. I think what separated this, was the higher cost to turn on my broadband service. Weeds out the broke dead beat cheap skates. Thats the pool who most likely will not pay. My broadband customers all paid little extra to have my service and those types pay their bills on time. George rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: I've had moderate success just making a personal visit to see how the people are doing. If they're out of a job and no income, we cut the bandwidth way down and suspend billing for a while. If internet can help them get a job, then it's in our interest to do this. Generally, we have pretty good success with a personal visit. I'm not confrontational, but explain that we really do expect to be paid and the customer's generally pretty good at paying when they see it as a matter of personal importance. Other than that, we've not found that notes, or emails works well. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:40 AM Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on. It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months. Do you just cut your losses and move on or what do you do? I'm contemplating small claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees per person. We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked. We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never happened. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
