Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike
Huh? How does that help? At 10:52 PM 10/4/2009, you wrote: As my father told me, a poor workman blames his tools. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 9:41 PM To:

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike
They ARE behind a double nat. They are a rural pocket of family I feed with a sector, then have a repeater on one of the buildings. I put a robust client in the house, and a switch. This one has a long Ethernet cable from the switch to the XBox. They tested at almost 2M down and almost 3M

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread jp
I think double nat can cause a problem for that sometimes. A low quality home firewall/router can also contribute. Lend the customer a different router and see if that helps. On Mon, Oct 05, 2009 at 06:18:57AM -0500, Mike wrote: They ARE behind a double nat. They are a rural pocket of family

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Nick Olsen
I think the NAT isn't the issue here. The nat gets to the xbox when it comes to A. connecting to a game. or B. Hosting a game. Once they are in a game it shouldn't be a nat issue. The xbox 360 doesn't use much when it comes bandwidth. But think about it more like a VOIP call. Its very sensitive

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Tom DeReggi
The only issue we have with Xbox are situations where XBOX Live tells the end user that their router is not a high enough level of compatibilty, so it is not allowed to connect with all Xbox live sessions.. (sorry I forget the exact term they use). To Fix that it requires two things... 1) The

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike
The router is a client in the house and managed by us. XBox itself has never protested that the router isn't working properly, just that, as he says it, 'I'm lagging. At 06:39 AM 10/5/2009, you wrote: I think double nat can cause a problem for that sometimes. A low quality home firewall/router

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike
I don't see it using a lot of bandwidth, and it seems to burst pretty quickly when I do see the traffic. But, if the game has to keep track of his position relative to the other players, wouldn't that require a fairly constant packet exchange with the server? At 08:37 AM 10/5/2009, you wrote:

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike
They haven't gotten any not good enough messages from the xbox. I assume the fix of which you speak was done on the client router and not your core equipment? Ping times from my monitoring position, through a wireless router in my home, out a customer client (I have us set up just like a

Re: [WISPA] To G or not to G :-)

2009-10-05 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
There is no substitute for link margin, you can never really have enough. Sigh. THIS attitude is why there is so much noise in many areas! Use the power you need, not what's available. No one drives with thier foot well and truly glued to the floor all of the time! If you did, you'll crash,

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread David E. Smith
Mike wrote: I guess I never knew the servers were out in other users homes, kinda like P2P or a sort of distributed computing? I guess I thought the Xbox live servers were centrally located. They are and they aren't. Xbox Live itself is centrally located, but whenever you join a game with

Re: [WISPA] To G or not to G :-)

2009-10-05 Thread Jayson Baker
Agreed. We turn down power levels on a lot of things--for that reason. i.e. we have a handful of customers that could spit and hit our tower. Their OP is down as low as it'll go (5dB), because if higher, not only does it overpower the receiver (-30dBm signal), but it will cause issues for all

Re: [WISPA] To G or not to G :-)

2009-10-05 Thread Robert West
You got that right, Marlon! Example. Point to point I recently had a backhaul I was having problems with and looked at my other links and we had a dish almost 8 miles away pointing towards this location with the noise issues. Cranked down the power at the offending site and it cleaned

Re: [WISPA] OT: Speaking of G, anyone need a 60' Rohn 25G?

2009-10-05 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I thought that they are ok as long as they are not done by vendors? It is, after all, a general list. marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Speaking of G, anyone need a 60' Rohn

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
Live won't let him sign on if he doesn't have the latest update. The Live servers are centrally located, but a lot of games lately have distributed game hosts. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From:

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
I miss it back in the day when game servers were centrally hosted. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:14 AM To: WISPA General List

Re: [WISPA] To G or not to G :-)

2009-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
Well, it all depends on what you're using. Some systems need at least -65 just to achieve maximum modulation. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday,

Re: [WISPA] OT: Speaking of G, anyone need a 60' Rohn 25G?

2009-10-05 Thread Josh Luthman
We need this information posted on the website because I simply can't remember myself. Just don't abuse it and we'll be fine. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however

Re: [WISPA] To G or not to G :-)

2009-10-05 Thread Jayson Baker
Right. Sorry, I meant to add, on our UBNT Loco's and PS's. On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Well, it all depends on what you're using. Some systems need at least -65 just to achieve maximum modulation. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread David E. Smith
Mike Hammett wrote: I miss it back in the day when game servers were centrally hosted. These things, like many things, seem to go in cycles. We've gone from central (text-based MUDs, games on the old AOL and CompuServe) to distributed (DOOM and Quake, the first couple generations of FPS games)

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Jeremy Parr
2009/10/5 David E. Smith d...@mvn.net: Mike Hammett wrote: I miss it back in the day when game servers were centrally hosted. These things, like many things, seem to go in cycles. We've gone from central (text-based MUDs, games on the old AOL and CompuServe) to distributed (DOOM and Quake,

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Josh Luthman
I hate IPX. I really do. From what I know Left 4 Dead on the Xbox is using central hosting servers now. I believe the games with larger volume players such as Bad Company do this as well. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Nick Olsen
This is correct. Left 4 Dead does have central hosted servers. Same with the PC side of left 4 dead. And yes. IPX Those were dark times. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Monday,

[WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Sales
We have two bgp sessions with different providers using the same interface. One provider is metered the other is flat rate. However we seem to send 80% of traffic to the metered provider. Is there a way to tell a mt router using bgp which path you prefer it to use ? I would like to make

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Dennis Burgess
Plenty of ways :) --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
I remember having to use IPX connectivity for games. IP has really revolutionized many things... though now with VPNs, you could play an IPX based game across the Internet. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Sales
Awesome but that wasn't much help lol. John Buwa Michiana Wireless,Inc 574-233-7170 Sent from my iPhone On Oct 5, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: Plenty of ways :) --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+,

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Josh Luthman
What was the name of that app that let you play IPX online...please remind me or I'll go crazy trying to remember! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Dennis Burgess
Ya, its kind of hard to know what you want to do. You can setup costs so that one provider is cheaper than the other, prepends for inbound etc. I would have to take a look really to go, here is the best way. .. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA,

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Jon Auer
The most common method is to prepend your AS number to the path that you announce to the ISP that you want to de-prioritize. You would use set-bgp-prepend on the inbound route filter for the connection that you want to de-prioritize. I'd prepend 1, wait a couple of days and then prepend 2 if

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Paul Hendry
AS prepend tends to be only for inbound traffic, to influence outbound you can use a few different BGP attributes. There is a pecking order (at least in Cisco) as per below: Weight Local preference Multi-exit discriminator Origin AS_path Next hop Community Cheers, P. -Original

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread David E. Smith
Josh Luthman wrote: I hate IPX. I really do. From what I know Left 4 Dead on the Xbox is using central hosting servers now. I believe the games with larger volume players such as Bad Company do this as well. L4D on PC can go both ways. You can host a game on your own PC, but many gaming

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread David E. Smith
Josh Luthman wrote: What was the name of that app that let you play IPX online...please remind me or I'll go crazy trying to remember! If you're going REALLY old-school, you might be thinking of Kali. For things not based on DOS 6.22, some folks have reported that Hamachi does a passable job

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Brad Belton
You mention send traffic, but do you mean receive traffic? Or both? To influence your outbound traffic (send) you can simply add a filter rule that sets a higher cost to the path you do not wish to prefer. To influence your inbound traffic (receive) you can only try and influence how traffic

Re: [WISPA] exp wireless tech/installer needed

2009-10-05 Thread Mac Dearman
Hey gang, I am in need of an experienced installer/ subscriber trouble shooter. He would also hold responsibilities of small network repair on our wireless network (replacing switches/power supplies..etc) as the need arises. Other duties would include some light climbing to replace/test (grain

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread RickG
Ya! Try getting that working on Lantastic! -RickG On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Jeremy Parr jeremyp...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/5 David E. Smith d...@mvn.net: Mike Hammett wrote: I miss it back in the day when game servers were centrally hosted. These things, like many things, seem to go

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread RickG
LOL, here we old guys go again! Kali was an improvement back then! -RickG On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 12:25 PM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote: Josh Luthman wrote: What was the name of that app that let you play IPX online...please remind me or I'll go crazy trying to remember! If you're going

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Josh Luthman
Kali - thank you. I will be sane another day. On 10/5/09, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote: Josh Luthman wrote: What was the name of that app that let you play IPX online...please remind me or I'll go crazy trying to remember! If you're going REALLY old-school, you might be thinking of

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread RickG
I've actually been surprised how well behaved xbox has been on my network. The only issue I have is that users on my network cant host games for others on my network. They can host for other networks though. Strange. On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote:

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
You are probably experiencing an issue with NAT loopback or something like that. You can't go out of, then come back in the same interface on NAT which is one of many reasons to not NAT your entire network. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
I don't have access to a direct BTP feed, nor am I well versed in what to do with one. However, according to Fixedorbit, you're only visible from Colostore. BGPlay does show many more ASes coming at you from ColoStore. Looking at RouteViews, I even see some networks going through Cogent, then

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread David E. Smith
RickG wrote: I've actually been surprised how well behaved xbox has been on my network. The only issue I have is that users on my network cant host games for others on my network. They can host for other networks though. Strange. As others have mentioned, if your whole network is heavily

[WISPA] Selling to businesses

2009-10-05 Thread Jerry Richardson
Other than cold calling (this has been the most successful for us) and referrals, what other methods are you using to sell to businesses? If you are using a direct mail piece that has had some success, I'd be interested in what it looks like. We have not had much success there. We are adding

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Paul Hendry
Actually there are other ways to influence inbound traffic other than specific routes or AS Prepending (i.e. MED). The problem with more specific routes is that some ISP's will drop routes that have a small subnet (i.e too specific) as a way to reduce there BGP tables. Here is the logic behind

[WISPA] Who needs a Network Engineer ?

2009-10-05 Thread Anthony Mattke
A few of you may remember me, as I used to frequent these halls quite often. If you don't, I am the former Senior Network Engineer / Architect for Cyberlink International / AAA Wireless here in Indiana, current owner of http://bgpguru.com/ and just in general a networking geek. But I

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Nick Olsen
This is true. I believe the general rule of thumb is no less then a /24. could be wrong though. I know we don't advertise anything smaller then a /24. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Jon Auer
Prepending on *inbound* BGP will influence local route selection/*outbound* traffic. You can use MED in influence inbound traffic from the same AS http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk365/technologies_tech_note09186a0080094934.shtml You need localpref to distribute outbound preference throughout a

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Dennis Burgess
yep, most peers will strip that. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website:

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Paul Hendry
Jon, By prepending to/from the better upstream peer aren't you influencing traffic via the poorer upstream due to the shorter AS path? P. -Original Message- From: Jon Auer [mailto:j...@tapodi.net] Sent: 05 October 2009 18:33 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bgp and

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread eje
I know Xbox don't like NAT at all. Even just single nat. What I did on my own home router was to turn on upnp on the inside and that solved te issues but then my home router was the only nay device and had public ip on it's wan interface (my home router is of course a MT box). /Eje Sent via

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
I haven't been successful in getting MT uPNP to work with the XBox... then again, I haven't tried since 2.9 days. Does it work now? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: e...@wisp-router.com Sent:

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Josh Luthman
I have a MT router and one layer of NAT at home. Zero issues. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Mon,

Re: [WISPA] Selling to businesses

2009-10-05 Thread Scott Reed
Yard signs have been the most effective for us. Other than when the local newspaper ran a front page story about us that included a 1/2 page color picture of our red and white tower. That generated 50 calls the first day. Bret Clark wrote: Direct mail works, but generally 3 mailings usually

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
With uPNP or forwarding port 3074? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:18 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Josh Luthman
I would never do upnp. Almost certain I have all the ports recommended forwarded. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Travis Johnson
Hi, I alot of providers are no longer even looking at prepends, JSYK. Travis Microserv Jon Auer wrote: The most common method is to prepend your AS number to the path that you announce to the ISP that you want to de-prioritize. You would use set-bgp-prepend on the inbound route filter

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
That's how I have it setup now. Maybe some time I should test to see if uPNP works with it now. Would make my life a lot easier. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Josh Luthman
I don't trust anything along the lines of automatic + network + Microsoft but I hear upnp works on the MT. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Nick Olsen
Have a friend that runs uPNP with the xbox and mikrotik (3.25?) and it works. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Mike
I'm ashamed to admit I don't know the name, but it looks VERY familiar to the old Wolfenstein with updated backgrounds. I can find out what the game is. It's pretty gory shoot 'em up commando stuff. At 10:54 AM 10/5/2009, you wrote: I hate IPX. I really do. From what I know Left 4 Dead on

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread eje
My home router was a 2.9.27 been doing upnp and xbox for long time now. Never had any issues. It had 390 days uptime before I lost a ethernet port on it (wrap board). Now it's another wrap still running 2.9 (was what was on it didn't bother upgrade since I just wanted to get things going asap).

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Jon Auer
Yes, that's the point. If the better upstream is getting congested you need to encourage traffic to take the poor upstream. Avoiding congestion is more important than following a normally optimal AS path. You manipulate the AS path to make a better AS look equally poor. On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at

Re: [WISPA] Selling to businesses

2009-10-05 Thread Brian Webster
Title: Thank You, It might also help to direct mail only to the addresses that fall within your network footprint. I can do that with GIS tools. Thank You, Brian Webster Bret Clark wrote: Direct mail works, but generally 3 mailings usually need to occur before the person

Re: [WISPA] Bgp and mt

2009-10-05 Thread Josh Cheney
Heh, this is one of the issues with this conversation. Better from a BGP perspective is the more well connected upstream. Better from a cost perspective is the less expensive. In this case, the problem is that the better (BGP) provider is also the worse (cost) provider. The question is then

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Eje Gustafsson
Doom.. =) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360 I'm ashamed to admit I don't know the name, but it looks VERY familiar to the

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Ryan Spott
Ach mien lieben! ryan On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I'm ashamed to admit I don't know the name, but it looks VERY familiar to the old Wolfenstein with updated backgrounds.  I can find out what the game is.  It's pretty gory shoot 'em up commando stuff. At

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread Adam Kennedy
For all those who don't do uPNP, like me, I don't trust it :) Here are the iptables rules I used to get all the Xbox Live stuff working behind NAT: # Xbox 360 iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 88 -j DNAT --to 192.168.42.249 iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p udp --dport

Re: [WISPA] To G or not to G :-)

2009-10-05 Thread John Thomas
Cisco's 1242's are certified for 5.4-5.7 GHz. Could you use Cisco APs' and Mikrotik clients? John Randy Cosby wrote: I know the mikrotik R52N card is.. I was so excited... Until I read closer. It's certified as a client device, but not as an AP. The AP has to do all the heavy DFS/TPC

Re: [WISPA] Selling to businesses

2009-10-05 Thread Robert West
Radio has returned absolutely zero to us so I stopped feeding that one. Mail, we never tried. For the regular service, we actually put flyers on windshields at the local wal-marts, yeah I know, I hate those things on my windshield but it works. We hit them up on Sundays, 11:30am and then around

Re: [WISPA] XBOX 360

2009-10-05 Thread RickG
Descent, Doom, and DukeNuken!!! On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Adam Kennedy akenn...@cyberlinktech.com wrote: Kahn was another one. I believe Kali you had to pay for where-as Kahn was free. I played many rounds of Descent/Descent II across those. Adam Kennedy Senior Network Administrator

Re: [WISPA] Selling to businesses

2009-10-05 Thread RickG
Chamber, Rotary, BNI, and other local business events. Businesses can be tough because most go with who they know. -RickG On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Other than cold calling (this has been the most successful for us) and referrals, what

[WISPA] WB 58DP-HP - pretty upset with Chuck

2009-10-05 Thread Jayson Baker
CC'ing Chuck, since he's on something called a... now what'd he call it again... vaca-something? Not sure what that is, but ok. Couple weeks ago, we bought a single WB 58DP dish. It showed up, looks pretty nice -- and came with a Payday candy bar inside. Cool!! Today the high-performance

Re: [WISPA] WB 58DP-HP - pretty upset with Chuck

2009-10-05 Thread Josh Luthman
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/110397.jpg Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Oct 6,