Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike
U, only partially. The old TV antennas were combo antennas that usually had a log periodic antenna for VHF and some sort of arrangement for UHF, usually a corner reflector, bow tie or something. Because they were designed to be so wide band, they were huge. Any 700 MHz antenna will be

Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements

2009-10-23 Thread Larry Yunker
Marlon, Thanks for the kind words. I sometimes (incorrectly) assume that list members know/knew that I used to run an ISP/WISP. Believe me... there are days now when I'm cooped up in the office that I miss being out there climbing towers, hanging antennas, installing routers and looking for

[WISPA] Need to beg borrow steal a Fluke Network Tester

2009-10-23 Thread Scott Carullo
Anyone know where I can get a Fluke network tester to give reports on customer premise wiring job? I feel a one weeks rental fits my requirements the most. Thanks. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102

Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements

2009-10-23 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Grin. You know, many of us still work side jobs! big grin For me, it's the local chamber of commerce (president) and being on the board of WISPA. YOU could be a WISP Woo hoo marlon - Original Message - From: Larry Yunker leyun...@wispadvantage.com To: 'Marlon K. Schafer'

Re: [WISPA] Need to beg borrow steal a Fluke Network Tester

2009-10-23 Thread 3-dB Networks
You might want to check these out. We bought one to play with and have been reasonably impressed with it... especially for $500 http://www.bytebros.com/bb_tester/Real%20World%20Certifier.htm Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From:

Re: [WISPA] Need to beg borrow steal a Fluke Network Tester

2009-10-23 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I rented a really powerful Fluke from these guys. http://www.trs-rentelco.com/SubCategory/LAN_Cable_Testers_CAT_5_CAT_6_.aspx I ended up having to call them for help in setting the unit up so that I got accurate readings and they were great to work with! marlon - Original Message -

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike Hammett
The rules are still up in the air, but the last set I heard had us using the entire TV band, save a few reserved channels. The 700 MHz band was the highest set of channels (parts of 698 - 806) that the FCC auctioned off before anything happened with TVWS.

Re: [WISPA] Need to beg borrow steal a Fluke Network Tester

2009-10-23 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Oooo, that looks cool. I'm gonna add that to my wish list! marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need to beg borrow steal a Fluke

Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements

2009-10-23 Thread Jerry Richardson
And then you think about it for a minite and realize. NAH.Don't miss it :-) Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Larry Yunker Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 6:42 AM To: 'Marlon K. Schafer';

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread John Valenti
RE the 30 meter antennas possibly he is referring to the height limits on antennas (and not the size)? The RO document said client antennas had to be 10m AGL, and AP antennas had to be less than 30m. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-08-260A1.pdf (page 65) -John

Re: [WISPA] Need to beg borrow steal a Fluke Network Tester

2009-10-23 Thread Jerry Richardson
Google fluke network tester rental Also check with your local low volatage cable distributor and or LV contractor, they may have one to rent. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Friday, October 23,

[WISPA] Refinery fire in San Juan metro area

2009-10-23 Thread Gino Villarini
Not a typical day in our neck of woods At 12:20 am a major explosion and fire generated in a local oil refinery and storage area on San Juan http://us.mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/AnyArticle/p.rdt?URL=http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN2391512

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Scottie Arnett
Yes John, thanks. That was what I was referring to. I could not remember the exact height for each, but I could recall one was around 30 meters. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Reply-To: WISPA General List

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Scottie Arnett
I need to proof read my posts a little better, lol. That would be one HUGE antenna. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: John Valenti vale...@lir.msu.edu Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:35:56 -0400 RE the 30

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread ccrum
It is not ludacrous. Sure you can receive with a small yagi or panel or heck, even a set of rabbit ears. It's the uplink that will be the major issue. If you are using small cells for coverage you can probably get away with smaller antennas on the towers, but this will limit your uplink

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike
Well the comments I've heard ARE ludicrous. Antennas as big as a TV antenna, 30 meter antennas, and others. Free space path loss is greater at 5.8 GHz than at 2.4 GHz. Substantially. Free space path loss at 700 MHz, or 600 or 500 is also SUBSTANTIALLY lesser than at 2.4 GHz. Free space

[WISPA] TAKE THE WISPA TRADE SHOW SURVEY!

2009-10-23 Thread Forbes Mercy
Greetings WISP's, The board of WISPA has authorized initial research into holding the first Trade Show of WISPA. We don't want to assume too much for the membership and therefore have put together a survey for members and non-members alike to fill out for guidance as we prepare for a possible

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike Hammett
The 30 meter antenna was misconstrued from the antenna height requirements. It's required to be 10 meters or above for CPE use and no higher than 30 meters for AP use. Why would a TV antenna or a TVWS antenna on the same frequency be any different in size? Maybe some missing elements if your

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Jack Unger
Mike, You are correct. I'm deep into a final review of WISPA's Spectrum for Broadband FCC filing right this minute (well, actually all morning) but I plan to respond to Mike's points with more information that he may not have about the TV White Spaces FCC rules. I think once he has that

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike
Jack: If your goal is to use VHF frequencies at 54 MHz then YES you will need a large radiator! If your goal is to use UHF frequencies at 300, or 500 MHz, then NO, you won't need a 'TV sized antenna. If *MANY* 6 MHz wide allocations are made, then one would be stupid to use a do all antenna

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread ccrum
Mike, you are certainly correct about the propagation characteristics. This is both good and bad depending on how people plan to deploy. I think that a lot of people are thinking that this space will let you have a self installed, desktop unit because of the NLOS and indoor penetration. My

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike Hammett
Not as many may be opposed as you'd think. After all, up until DBS, a significant number of people had those antennas on their house for TV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: ccrum

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike Hammett
Due to the number of channels and the likelihood of channel bonding, there's not going to be an antenna that covers from 692 - 698 MHz, then another that covers 686 - 692 MHz. it also depends on the area. Maybe the broadcasters are all sitting on channels 35 - 50, forcing you to use the lower

[WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread jp
Anyone use their routers? I'm wondering if they overstate their performance greatly or if they are conservative in their promises. I'm considering using one to replace an aging Cisco. The Cisco has been reliable, but it's running out of steam with 150mbit going through it pretty steady, and

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Jack Unger
Mike, I'm just finishing up work on WISPA's "Spectrum for Broadband" FCC filing which is due today but hang with me for another hour or so and I'll give you some background information about the FCC's TV White Space rules as they currently stand. Once you have the context (full view of the

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Scott Reed
You might want to look at ImageStream as well. jp wrote: Anyone use their routers? I'm wondering if they overstate their performance greatly or if they are conservative in their promises. I'm considering using one to replace an aging Cisco. The Cisco has been reliable, but it's running out

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Joe Fiero
We have 7 IS routers and they have been the only component in our systems to deliver 100%, 100% of the time. Even survived a siye-killing tower hit by lightning that took out everything else and fried the Cat-5 coming down the tower. Components were toasted on both sides of the IS an it was

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Josh Luthman
Juniper as I know the history are the guys that left Cisco and redid the router to allow major high traffic networks. I agree - ImageStream is a great router. Great price for what it offers. On 10/23/09, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net wrote: You might want to look at ImageStream as

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike
Cameron: Great, some good dialogue. When I used the example of a LPDA or Yagi, I was trying to scale the antenna to something easy to visualize. Everyone knows what a Yagi, or as has been used as example -- the TV antenna or log periodic look like. 1/4 wave and 1/2 wave radiator lengths

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike
I love the dialog. The 34 antenna is a LPDA and wide band. There is going to have to be segmentation in the bands. Very few antenna systems have the wide band characteristics of a log periodic. Maybe that WILL be the normal antenna for the new technology, but it is quite easy to make other

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Dylan Bouterse
We have been rolling out Junipers to replace our tower routers and soon our borders. There is a bit of a learning curve to their syntax but once you get the hang of it, they are very nice. Dylan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Josh Luthman
Dylan, Would you say the syntax is like Cisco? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Butch Evans
On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 15:29 -0400, jp wrote: Anyone use their routers? I'm wondering if they overstate their performance greatly or if they are conservative in their promises. I'm considering using one to replace an aging Cisco. The Cisco has been reliable, but it's running out of steam

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Butch Evans
On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 16:09 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: Would you say the syntax is like Cisco? NOT EVEN CLOSE! :-) -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/*

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread ccrum
We're on the same page now. We've been working on circular designs not just for UHF but uW also. I too think there are major benefits here. We design, manufacture, and use all our tower antennas (please...no remarks about certification) and really think there is a benefit to circular pol. Nice

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Bill Price
I have two of the J2350s. They work very well. Bill Price SCS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of jp Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 3:29 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] juniper Anyone use their routers? I'm

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Dylan Bouterse
Not so much. Maybe some similarities, but no. Juniper has a Cisco config translator that is supposed to take an existing Cisco config and translate into Juniper speak, like I needed to explain config translator. haha -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Mike
Thanks Jack. I am looking forward to your insight. Mike Hammett was already so kind by referring to a wiki in a previous post. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spaces_(radio) Mike At 02:31 PM 10/23/2009, you wrote: Mike, I'm just finishing up work on WISPA's Spectrum for Broadband FCC

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Josh Luthman
Now if ImageStream had one that took MikroTik exports I would be in hog heaven =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Nick Olsen
Mikrotik BGP has come a long way. And is really stable in our testing. running 4.1 Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 3:29 PM To: wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Josh Luthman
I don't mean to be rude but 4.1 came out a week ago, how much testing could you have done?! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Jeff Broadwick
We do, it's name is Paul! :-) Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 4:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] juniper Now if ImageStream had one that took

Re: [WISPA] Keyon Communications

2009-10-23 Thread Charles Wu
Are you aware that Keyon is a publically traded company; I would start with that data http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=KEYO.OB -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:48 PM

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Nick Olsen
Well, its been running a week, stable. With a full BGP table. Where 3.24 plus couldn't run a full bgp table for more then 4 hours, without idling out and coming back. I understand a week isn't nothing, But since about 3.28 with routing test, bgp has been as stable as the machine its running on.

[WISPA] Ubquity SR71USB

2009-10-23 Thread 3-dB Networks
Anyone know who has these in stock? Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Josh Luthman
Great, so it's following wireless-test! Go MikroTik! On 10/23/09, Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com wrote: Well, its been running a week, stable. With a full BGP table. Where 3.24 plus couldn't run a full bgp table for more then 4 hours, without idling out and coming back. I understand a

Re: [WISPA] Ubquity SR71USB

2009-10-23 Thread eje
We do. http://store.wisp-router.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=SR71%2DUSBeq=Tp= 195pcs in stock. /Eje --Original Message-- From: 3-dB Networks Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: 'WISPA General List' ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ubquity SR71USB Sent: Oct 23, 2009 15:59 Anyone

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread Jack Unger
Hi Mike, We just finished our work on WISPA's "Spectrum for Broadband" filing and it goes to the FCC today. The following is a Commercial Message Those WISPs who enjoy using this list but who are not WISPA members should really consider joining WISPA. WISPA members just paid $5000 in legal

[WISPA] WISPA Webinar Announced

2009-10-23 Thread Forbes Mercy
This is to WISPA Members, if you're not a member you have time to join! LEAVE YOUR CALENDAR OPEN FOR NOVEMBER 4th at 2PM Eastern, 11AM Pacific and all time zones in between. WISPA Promotions announce the first ever Webinar. This event is our outreach for members only, a personal visit from a

Re: [WISPA] Ubquity SR71USB

2009-10-23 Thread Chuck Profito
Eje, Will that connect with the new Rocket's in full duplex mode? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of e...@wisp-router.com Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubquity SR71USB

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

2009-10-23 Thread John Valenti
Mike, First, take everything I saw about this with a grain of salt, because I'm no expert. From my reading of the RO, there are two types of whitespace device. There is a low power version, that I think is intended to be like a mini-PCI card, installed in a laptop. There are no height

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Marco Coelho
Juniper is a solid product. We've used lots of them in various situations. Be wary of the GUI front end I think they were designed by the software engineers only, with no systems engineering control. The GUI interfaces is about as user friendly and intuitive as a wife. No dear, that wasn't

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Josh Luthman
I have to say that uptime usually doesn't mean it's a solid product, rather it has had sufficient power for that time. I have had Windows 95 running for months and XP for a good 3 years. Now if I wanted to bash Cisco I would point at the incident this week with Level3 in Atlanta. On 10/23/09,

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Jeremy Parr
2009/10/23 Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com: I have to say that uptime usually doesn't mean it's a solid product, rather it has had sufficient power for that time.  I have had Windows 95 running for months and XP for a good 3 years. Now if I wanted to bash Cisco I would point at the

Re: [WISPA] WISPA Webinar Announced

2009-10-23 Thread lakeland
Can I make a recommendation that someone record it and put it in a members only area for review by new members. Great idea getting the manufacturers to present. -B- Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Date: Fri,

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Josh Luthman
I don't want to say too much but I can share this... https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/2009-October/001593.html Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable,

[WISPA] How Priviliged are Emails?

2009-10-23 Thread Lists
We see these footers stating this information is confidential or if you get this email by mistake. I personally like that one, if you do not who you are sending it to.tough luck. What if there is no 'disclaimer' on a string of emails? No, in confidential comment, can that be repeated?

Re: [WISPA] How Priviliged are Emails?

2009-10-23 Thread Josh Luthman
If it's going on a public list then it's public information. How are you going to protect prying eyes from this: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ The disclaimer means little to me and is more annoying then anything. Note that if the phone call was being recorded right you would not

Re: [WISPA] How Priviliged are Emails?

2009-10-23 Thread St. Louis Broadband
Note that if the phone call was being recorded right you would not hear anything at all. In the modern IP world there are no clicks to hear. The other party may have had a tape recorder or something analog on their handset, though. Yep, this is where it cracks me up...and a small telco, none

Re: [WISPA] How Priviliged are Emails?

2009-10-23 Thread eje
Many states requires just that one party is aware of the recording. Some states require two party. This is why you hear at most places when you call in a recorded message that your call might be recorded. I love the thing about might there is no might or may about it. They all are but rarely

Re: [WISPA] juniper

2009-10-23 Thread Marco Coelho
When I talk uptime, I mean uptime with no incidents, no unscheduled reboots, no issues period. I've got Some old grey Cisco routers that have been running for literally years without a reboot. The only things I can give this award to are a well built, locked down, linux box, and a few well