Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
Your life? Telephone? Rural Utilities? On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: can you name me one thing that the government has given that it has not first taken? funny I keep asking - but never given an answer. Im with you MDK On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:20 AM, MDK wrote: The really big wave of mass stupidity. I can't imagine how ANYONE would want Congress's or the FCC's fingers on ANYTHING. There is only ONE way to ensure that things get more expensive, cost us terribly, and work worse... and that's to put the people who know absolutely NOTHING about real life in charge Washington DC. Please name for me anything that Washington DC has done for us, that is not a disaster of Biblical proportions. You can't. Absolutely everything they try to do for us is so horrible it's beyond insane. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:26 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/business/media/13fcc.html?hp=adxnnl=1adxnnlx=1268486085-Jt93CAOuKUSJEQR/ZmVkzg -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
Count me with the founding Trolls, then, Jason. They had a determination to NOT be subject to the King. They were fanatics... they had one thing in mind, they never changed their mind, and they never shut up. I consider those trolls to be dang good company. If I make half the annoyances and irritation and state my case 1% as well, then, thanks for the compliment. Fanaticism in the defense of our liberty to conduct business, pursue excellence, and preserve our nation for our children is no vice. it is the essence of being responsible.The moderns have had their chance at centrally planned nations, all kinds of wacky modern ideas that don't work, and all kinds of social and economic controls, and it's an absolute failure.Every aspect of everything they do is abject failure.It's time for the advocates of all these things to shut up and go away. It's time to get back to what we know works, and really does and has worked. It's called freedom.Either we embrace it with unreserved and unyielding and uncompromising determination, or there's no reason for there to even BE a WISPA or any of us. If the central planners get their way, not a one of us will be in our own business, we'll just be cogs in their utopian machine. If you want to call for federal plans or ideas for ANY NEED of the public, then get the hell out. LEAVE. GO. You're an enemy of the future. I'm absolutely SICK of seeing my nation plundered and destroyed your types. It's time to take our money, autonomy, responsibility, power, and decisions back from Washington DC, our states, and in some cases even our neighborhoods and go it on our own - whether it's hard, easy, fair, unfair, or damn freaking crushingly miserable.Nothing they have ever done has been anything but a disaster, and nothing they have in mind now is any better. And, no, getting our share of some fund is NOT acceptable.Nor advocating it. It is no different than laundering money for the mob. You're just enabling the monster to keep growing.If WISPA can't take a stand on principle and start advocating, then... It serves no useful purpose. We're in a to the death fight for the salvation of the country, and we're on the losing side at the moment, because far too many will give up tomorrow to make it easier today.Well, we've charged the damn card to the limit, gone over the limit, and have reached bankruptcy on that plan. Nobody in Washington DC has the freaking idea what to do to prevent the worst economic and social cataclysms the world may be about to see. This experiment has gone on long enough.It's time to get back to what we know - and what we know is what founded the country, and it works. There's no time left for grandly foolish experiments.The account is empty, the credit lines exhausted, the treasury sold off, and the mortgages so deep we're far upside down. The question is, do ANY of you actually care? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jason Bailey j284...@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE Freedom...I'm feeding the trolls...hate to see anyone hungry?I never post this much,but i love watching this list and about to join $$$ with wispa.All keep it up...feeding the trolls! --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: From: Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 1:31 AM can you name me one thing that the government has given that it has not first taken? funny I keep asking - but never given an answer. Im with you MDK On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:20 AM, MDK wrote: The really big wave of mass stupidity. I can't imagine how ANYONE would want Congress's or the FCC's fingers on ANYTHING.There is only ONE way to ensure that things get more expensive, cost us terribly, and work worse... and that's to put the people who know absolutely NOTHING about real life in charge Washington DC. Please name for me anything that Washington DC has done for us, that is not a disaster of Biblical proportions. You can't.Absolutely everything they try to do for us is so horrible it's beyond insane. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:26 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
Government Gave me my life? Really? Telephone? Until we got the government out of it, it was horrendously expensive and advanced none at all. Now, we have services that WERE NOT EVEN CONCEIVABLE to me the year I got married. We've come that far since then. Copper to my house? Obsolete. Long distance?I haven't paid that in years. All it took was someone with a big enough club to force government to undo what it did for us. It could be so cheap and so competitive the cost would be trivial, but no, the pointy headed trolls in DC have to give us stuff. You know what? I lived for years far beyond the end of the power and phone lines. Guess what? No big loss.If we'd not subsidized bad ideas for so long, real innovation would have started LONG LONG LONG ago, to solve problems with real solutions, instead of cementing the past into stone with good intentions. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Philip Dorr wirel...@judgementgaming.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:02 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE Your life? Telephone? Rural Utilities? On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: can you name me one thing that the government has given that it has not first taken? funny I keep asking - but never given an answer. Im with you MDK On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:20 AM, MDK wrote: The really big wave of mass stupidity. I can't imagine how ANYONE would want Congress's or the FCC's fingers on ANYTHING.There is only ONE way to ensure that things get more expensive, cost us terribly, and work worse... and that's to put the people who know absolutely NOTHING about real life in charge Washington DC. Please name for me anything that Washington DC has done for us, that is not a disaster of Biblical proportions. You can't.Absolutely everything they try to do for us is so horrible it's beyond insane. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:26 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/business/media/13fcc.html?hp=adxnnl=1adxnnlx=1268486085-Jt93CAOuKUSJEQR/ZmVkzg -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?
Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo which could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable carrying POE (perferrably 48v) up the tower, and then would pass POE (adjustable voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a single Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it first. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ
Wow Mark. For once I can actually state that I agree with your statements. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:54 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ Scottie, the problem is nothing at all to do with open access.This open access has the effect of fixing the type of access. Once you build a network, and a third party mandates you share it at prices they set, no more networks will be built. The prices will be fixed, the technology will be fixed, and nobody in that system will move anywhere. Why should they? Profit is guaranteed, forever, even if subsidy is required to support it. You have to have multiple last miles for there to be ANY competition in technological advancement. And one has to be able to build their own network and use it to best advantage without interference... or why build?If you don't believe me... Just agree to the following statement: I agree to build a network, then allow MDK to use it at a price set by people who want the public to think they're being given something at rich people's expense, and I will maintain, update, and continue to upgrade capacity, while everyone who uses my network abuses it to the maximum possible amount, while doing everything to undercut my price. I also agree that if I charge enough that I can undercut the other users, that I will continue to share at ever lower prices, so that the appearance of a monopoly will not become apparent. Yes, we have a duopoly, sort of, with cable and dsl being at an uneasy truce, but fix the prices on both, and both will halt, exactly where they are, and no further advancement will occur in EITHER industry.Why should they? Any effort to get ahead in the game simply results in your piece of the pie being confiscated and given to those who put no investment into it. Once the pipe has been defined in price, size, and technology, it simply becomes fixed.Which is why telephone service took more than a half century to advance from rotary dial to DTMF. Once we blew apart the official monopoly and allowed competition for every mile, the actual obsolescence of voice over copper became obvious in a very short period of time. You want to see REAL advancement happen?Have the FCC and Congress reduce regulatory barriers to all forms of telecommunication - from spectrum shortages, to monopoly status for various types of providers, to rules about availability of public real estate, and the repeal of at least 90% of the completely useless and pointless regulations out there. We don't need Congress or some pointy-heads at the FCC to write us a plan. it will be asininely stupid as the old Soviet Union plans to modernize the USSR.Beaurocrats are and always will be utterly incompetent at deciding such future directions. Have them repeal 99% of the income tax, OSHA, and other rules (keeping the .5% that are useful), remove the barriers to competition that exist at both federal and state levels, and give us some tools to fight the local ones, and then run for cover, because we'll be charging into the future like tigers chasing prey. Once we start setting prices by some beaurocrat, and using regulators to decide fair cost or fair price of something, that's basically... the end.They will never admit to their failures and from that point on, the game is: If it succeeds and makes a profit, tax it. If taxing it doesn't fix it, tax it some more. Once you've killed it with stupidity, then subsidize it forever to make your plan look like a success. I want no part of such things, and how DARE you people think it's a good idea to force it upon the people, and upon us... with our own money used against us, of all things. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:28 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ Did they even give the open access a chance even back then? This was the start for the end of the dial-up ISP's. Do they not remember the end of line sharing in the early 2000's? The throw-off of what the big players did not think would ever succeed, being dial-up and what may come afterward? No, they were making big money even off that. Then they looked forward for once and saw that the future was not as bright as they had thought. NOW, they want it all, and still do! I will say again, let's go back to the Computer Inquires Acts and force these big players to go by the books...no cross subsidizing, an Enforcement Bureau at the FCC that can't be paid off, etc If they think we can not build
[WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?
It would be neat to see for smaller sites, but I wouldn't use it on larger sites, one point of failure makes me nervous a bit. Especially since Cat5e is so cheap. To answer your question, no, I have not seen it but would like to :) -Cameron -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch? Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo which could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable carrying POE (perferrably 48v) up the tower, and then would pass POE (adjustable voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a single Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it first. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] making 5ghz link work with more power
Have a 5ghz 1mile backhaul, its near-LOS. I can barley make out the tippy top of the grain leg that the antenna is on. On both sides of link I'm using 24db panels with R52's. Anyway the signal is not that hot, about -73/-74. TCP Throughput on normal 802.11a is 17.5mbps. Turn on Nstream and its around 23.5mbps. I can not go bigger antenna's or higher on either side of link. Believe me if I could I already would have. Was thinking about upgrading each side to an XR5. I'm thinking for another 6-7db improvement over what its at now. Does anyone have any experience with making a link like this work? I need 30mbps with Nstream and possibly switching to Turnbo mode and hoping for 60+mbps. Will amping each end with a pair of RFLINX amps overcome the attenuation and make the link more solid or will this cause problems? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app
I'll ask and get back to you. My gf has tried them all 'cause that's what she does for fun... Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Jerry Richardson wrote: any recommendations on the best jailbreak program? I used Backra1n and it ran fine for a couple of weeks then crashed for no apparent reason. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 8:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app Jerry, Yes you need to jailbreak. Jailbreaking basically gives you access to the underlying OS rather then being tied to the pretty skined app on top of it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: how do you access the shell? do I need to jailbreak ? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Sales sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Hmm I just goto my iPhones command line via shell and type ssh ipaddress works like a charm. John Buwa Michiana Wireless,Inc 574-233-7170 Sent from my iPhone On Mar 11, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Data Technology w...@dtisp.com wrote: I know in the last couple of weeks there was a discussion about an ssh app for the iPhone. I did not save the emails because I thought I would never need something like because I don't have an iPhone. But, I bought an iPhone last night and now I am looking for an ssh app. I have found iSSH and the reviews are good about it. I know that $7.99 for an app is a lot of money but if this is the one to have then I don't mind spending the money. This also appears to have a vnc client as well. Any input as far as SSH utilities or any other iPhone apps for WISP operations would be appreciated. LaRoy McCann Data Technology --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] making 5ghz link work with more power
Definitely the XRs hear better than the R52. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Have a 5ghz 1mile backhaul, its near-LOS. I can barley make out the tippy top of the grain leg that the antenna is on. On both sides of link I'm using 24db panels with R52's. Anyway the signal is not that hot, about -73/-74. TCP Throughput on normal 802.11a is 17.5mbps. Turn on Nstream and its around 23.5mbps. I can not go bigger antenna's or higher on either side of link. Believe me if I could I already would have. Was thinking about upgrading each side to an XR5. I'm thinking for another 6-7db improvement over what its at now. Does anyone have any experience with making a link like this work? I need 30mbps with Nstream and possibly switching to Turnbo mode and hoping for 60+mbps. Will amping each end with a pair of RFLINX amps overcome the attenuation and make the link more solid or will this cause problems? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:27 AM, MDK wrote: Government Gave me my life? Really? Telephone? Until we got the government out of it, it was horrendously expensive and advanced none at all. That isn't really true Mark. Before the government got involved you had multiple non-interworking telephone systems. I remember my grandfather telling me when I was young that people had to have a red telephone and a blue telephone in Minneapolis where we grew up for the two phone companies if you wanted to be able to call everyone with a phone. Talk about horrendously expensive (and not just in cost, but in time). Government forced a monopoly situation that for many many decades worked to our advantage. Eventually that was broken up when it no longer served the public's interest. I also remember that friends who travelled around the world coming back always commenting about how much more advanced and how much more reliable our telecom systems were than anyone else's. And no advances? Geeze, when I was a kid everyone I knew had party lines. Not long before that you had operators connecting calls. There were a LOT of advances given the core technology that was available. It is hard to see just what kind of other advances you could have had in the 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's. The internet wasn't possible back then because home computers didn't exist and the protocols that allowed it to emerge didn't exist. It wasn't until the later 60's that transistors really became viable and allowed a lot of the dynamic advances that breaking the monopoly enabled. Yes, it took a decade or two to undo the the regulatory environment that by that point WAS holding back progress, but I respectfully submit that doing it decades earlier than that would have had no particular beneficial effect and the original intervention was hugely beneficial. Reflexively painting everything government does as bad is simplistic though has the benefit that it doesn't take a lot of thought. But it's a disservice to your own arguments and restricts your ability to influence debate and the position of others. It might be more useful to take a more balanced view that more accurately reflects reality. Chuck Now, we have services that WERE NOT EVEN CONCEIVABLE to me the year I got married. We've come that far since then. Copper to my house? Obsolete. Long distance?I haven't paid that in years. All it took was someone with a big enough club to force government to undo what it did for us. It could be so cheap and so competitive the cost would be trivial, but no, the pointy headed trolls in DC have to give us stuff. You know what? I lived for years far beyond the end of the power and phone lines. Guess what? No big loss.If we'd not subsidized bad ideas for so long, real innovation would have started LONG LONG LONG ago, to solve problems with real solutions, instead of cementing the past into stone with good intentions. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Philip Dorr wirel...@judgementgaming.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:02 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE Your life? Telephone? Rural Utilities? On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: can you name me one thing that the government has given that it has not first taken? funny I keep asking - but never given an answer. Im with you MDK On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:20 AM, MDK wrote: The really big wave of mass stupidity. I can't imagine how ANYONE would want Congress's or the FCC's fingers on ANYTHING.There is only ONE way to ensure that things get more expensive, cost us terribly, and work worse... and that's to put the people who know absolutely NOTHING about real life in charge Washington DC. Please name for me anything that Washington DC has done for us, that is not a disaster of Biblical proportions. You can't.Absolutely everything they try to do for us is so horrible it's beyond insane. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:26 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/business/media/13fcc.html?hp=adxnnl=1adxnnlx=1268486085-Jt93CAOuKUSJEQR/ZmVkzg -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com
[WISPA] Watching construction progress
I have a customer that would like to put up a camera so the others can watch the progress of a construction project. As I have never done anything like this, I need some suggestions as to equipment and process. Thanks -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
Cool. I want to use a pair of NS5M's as a backhaul to the PS2. So I should be able use that second ethernet port on the PS2 to connect the NS5M. Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Philip Dorr wrote: The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Watching construction progress
stardottech.com , have it ftp the current picture to a webpage or allow people to have access to it. Course there are all kind of cameras, but I like the webserver ones. -- Original Message -- From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:14:56 -0400 I have a customer that would like to put up a camera so the others can watch the progress of a construction project. As I have never done anything like this, I need some suggestions as to equipment and process. Thanks -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Watching construction progress
H264 ip camera with a static ip or dyndns. Then just give out the ip address to anyone that wants to watch. H264 keeps the bandwidth requirement low. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net wrote: I have a customer that would like to put up a camera so the others can watch the progress of a construction project. As I have never done anything like this, I need some suggestions as to equipment and process. Thanks -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] VZ Tower Contact
Does anyone have a good contact for VZ tower Co-lo in the Midwest? Thanks Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] making 5ghz link work with more power
I realize that you state that you cannot go with any bigger antennas, but you might be able to fix this situation with the same size antennas if you go with a more focused beam. You state that you are running 24db panels. Panels generally have a pretty wide beam width. If you switch to a parabolic of similar size, you would probably gain at least 3db on each side of the link. - Larry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:49 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] making 5ghz link work with more power Have a 5ghz 1mile backhaul, its near-LOS. I can barley make out the tippy top of the grain leg that the antenna is on. On both sides of link I'm using 24db panels with R52's. Anyway the signal is not that hot, about -73/-74. TCP Throughput on normal 802.11a is 17.5mbps. Turn on Nstream and its around 23.5mbps. I can not go bigger antenna's or higher on either side of link. Believe me if I could I already would have. Was thinking about upgrading each side to an XR5. I'm thinking for another 6-7db improvement over what its at now. Does anyone have any experience with making a link like this work? I need 30mbps with Nstream and possibly switching to Turnbo mode and hoping for 60+mbps. Will amping each end with a pair of RFLINX amps overcome the attenuation and make the link more solid or will this cause problems? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] FCC Open Commission Meeting National Broadband Plan
FCC Open Commission Meeting National Broadband Plan http://reboot.fcc.gov/live http://reboot.fcc.gov/live Starts at 10:30 but log in now if you want in. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VZ Tower Contact
Co-locate with Verizon? ha ha ha ha ha ! HA HA HA HA HA!!~!! I hope you have applied for CLEC status and have a BIG BIG bank account! On 3/16/2010 6:54 AM, chris cooper wrote: Does anyone have a good contact for VZ tower Co-lo in the Midwest? Thanks Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] making 5ghz link work with more power
Consider testing some mimo 'n' gear...such as ubiquiti ... you should be able to get the 60+mbps range you are looking for. You did not say how long is the link ? (we have 2 rocket m5 w/2ft dishes, on a 8.7 mile link, with not a clean LOS, the radios are turned down in power to 20dbm, 20mhz channel, (chain0=71-73dbm/chain1=70-74dbm), the wireless side is TX/RX = 117Mbps/117Mbps.. thruput testing shows 50+Mb/s). The only stickler would be that currently the dual-polarity antenna's are not quiet in the 24db range.. they have 2ft dishes, 29db Nanobridges 10inch dish (very narrow beamwidth). should be available in the US 30-60 days. or wait for the Powerbridge M (built 2x2 Mimo, dual polarity 24db pannel)... about 90-120 days. Faisal. On 3/16/2010 8:57 AM, Scott Reed wrote: Definitely the XRs hear better than the R52. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Have a 5ghz 1mile backhaul, its near-LOS. I can barley make out the tippy top of the grain leg that the antenna is on. On both sides of link I'm using 24db panels with R52's. Anyway the signal is not that hot, about -73/-74. TCP Throughput on normal 802.11a is 17.5mbps. Turn on Nstream and its around 23.5mbps. I can not go bigger antenna's or higher on either side of link. Believe me if I could I already would have. Was thinking about upgrading each side to an XR5. I'm thinking for another 6-7db improvement over what its at now. Does anyone have any experience with making a link like this work? I need 30mbps with Nstream and possibly switching to Turnbo mode and hoping for 60+mbps. Will amping each end with a pair of RFLINX amps overcome the attenuation and make the link more solid or will this cause problems? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VZ Tower Contact
Are you sure VZ owns the tower? In many areas of the country, while VZ may be the most prominent tenant, someone else actually owns and manages the tower site --Original Message-- From: Gary Garrett Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VZ Tower Contact Sent: Mar 16, 2010 10:27 Co-locate with Verizon? ha ha ha ha ha ! HA HA HA HA HA!!~!! I hope you have applied for CLEC status and have a BIG BIG bank account! On 3/16/2010 6:54 AM, chris cooper wrote: Does anyone have a good contact for VZ tower Co-lo in the Midwest? Thanks Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app
Okay, the answer I got was: blackra1n works in a flash and you don't even need to restore your stuff http://www.blackra1n.org/ She discussed several others but that's her clear preference. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Jerry Richardson wrote: any recommendations on the best jailbreak program? I used Backra1n and it ran fine for a couple of weeks then crashed for no apparent reason. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 8:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app Jerry, Yes you need to jailbreak. Jailbreaking basically gives you access to the underlying OS rather then being tied to the pretty skined app on top of it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: how do you access the shell? do I need to jailbreak ? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Sales sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Hmm I just goto my iPhones command line via shell and type ssh ipaddress works like a charm. John Buwa Michiana Wireless,Inc 574-233-7170 Sent from my iPhone On Mar 11, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Data Technology w...@dtisp.com wrote: I know in the last couple of weeks there was a discussion about an ssh app for the iPhone. I did not save the emails because I thought I would never need something like because I don't have an iPhone. But, I bought an iPhone last night and now I am looking for an ssh app. I have found iSSH and the reviews are good about it. I know that $7.99 for an app is a lot of money but if this is the one to have then I don't mind spending the money. This also appears to have a vnc client as well. Any input as far as SSH utilities or any other iPhone apps for WISP operations would be appreciated. LaRoy McCann Data Technology --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Watching construction progress
Something with a DVR would be a good way to go. This way they have a historical account of the progress. I am sure they will want to do something like a time squeeze of the whole process. Otherwise you are looking at a camera that FTP¹s to a web-server. If you go that route the image is probably going to be replaced every 5 minutes or so, which is fine for real time. Won¹t do much good for going back to watch. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net CCNA CCNT Mikrotik Advanced http://j2sw.mtin.net/blog From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net Organization: GAB-Midwest Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:14:56 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Watching construction progress I have a customer that would like to put up a camera so the others can watch the progress of a construction project. As I have never done anything like this, I need some suggestions as to equipment and process. Thanks -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?
3Com was close with the Network Jack devices. made to fit in a wall outlet, poe, POE out, and 300 version was managed. Only four ports out, but initial testing was pretty cool. It is only 802.3af. nj200 is the 10/100 model, and I just googled it and there is now a nj2000 for Gigabit speeds. Thanks Mike On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo which could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable carrying POE (perferrably 48v) up the tower, and then would pass POE (adjustable voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a single Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it first. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Problem flashing Open-Mesh on a Engenius 1650
Anyone having a problem flashing Open-Mesh on a Engenius 1650 using XP Pro. It seems when I flash a unit the flash completes, but the unit does not work. When used as an AP the power and the lan lights are on but when I log in to it via wireless laptop the IP address is 169.xxx.xxx.xxx. I have a similar situation when used as a bridge. If I reflash them I may or may not get the same results, so I just keep reflashing until the unit works. Any information would help. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
For the WISP that is still charging $30+ for 384k service, what are you doing to bring those customers more bang for their buck? Are you trying to increase speeds or bring pricing down? Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
If they want local DSL service, then they can pay for that. We focus on outside areas, however, there is also areas around here that the DSL service goes up and down more than a porn star. Hence, we end up being more reliable. We have customers also that just hate ATT, hence, they would rather pay us then ATT. We also have Local support, and that is a big plus, especially for businesses anyways. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Richey Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:53 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL For the WISP that is still charging $30+ for 384k service, what are you doing to bring those customers more bang for their buck? Are you trying to increase speeds or bring pricing down? Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
BTW, I did not mean to offend anyone with my colorful analogy. Just realized what I typed after hitting send! If it don't offend you, enjoy a bit of humor. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Richey Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:53 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL For the WISP that is still charging $30+ for 384k service, what are you doing to bring those customers more bang for their buck? Are you trying to increase speeds or bring pricing down? Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VZ Tower Contact
I am a bit confused here. Did you have a bad experience? KGI Wireless manages many of the Verizon sites, and are somewhat OK to deal with. http://www.kgiwireless.com/Documents/QueryVerizonWirelessPublicSiteList.asp They can be a little stiff - but they know what a WISP is. Back in 2000 ATC signed an agreement to sublease all the space on over 2000 Alltel towers till 2015, making them the contact for Verizon/Alltel in a lot of the country. Chris, these would probably be your best routes, if it did not help please drop me a line in email. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Gary Garrett ggarr...@nidaho.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VZ Tower Contact Co-locate with Verizon? ha ha ha ha ha ! HA HA HA HA HA!!~!! I hope you have applied for CLEC status and have a BIG BIG bank account! On 3/16/2010 6:54 AM, chris cooper wrote: Does anyone have a good contact for VZ tower Co-lo in the Midwest? Thanks Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?
Thanks. Those are good but don't quite do it. The specs say the POE is 48v. I'd like something that you could program the POE out to 12v connected devices. Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Mike Delp wrote: 3Com was close with the Network Jack devices. made to fit in a wall outlet, poe, POE out, and 300 version was managed. Only four ports out, but initial testing was pretty cool. It is only 802.3af. nj200 is the 10/100 model, and I just googled it and there is now a nj2000 for Gigabit speeds. Thanks Mike On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo which could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable carrying POE (perferrably 48v) up the tower, and then would pass POE (adjustable voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a single Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it first. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?
A quick google search turned up this: http://www.wirelesslan.gr/product_info.php?cPath=48products_id=1062osCsid= 440557bb417622d46a58ff9007e2a706 POE switching volt to 5V or 6V or 7.5V or 9V or 12V Looks to be 48V in and two outputs of 5V, 6V, 7.5V, 9V, or 12V. It would require a fairly large case at the top side of your tower, but you could run 48V up a single 4 pair ethernet cable to a 3COM NJ200 - then you could run 48V out of the various ports of the NJ200 into these little voltage regulator devices and then run the regulated 12V power out of these devices and into your top side equipment. Theoretically it would work and you would have a network switch topside all running off of a single 4 pair wire. NOTE: I wouldn't do this! I would just run extra pairs to the top. The less equipment topside the better. Too many circuits top-side makes too much climb time. Stuff breaks... I think Murphy's law has some sort of postulate that says stuff at 200ft AGL breaks MORE OFTEN!!! - Larry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch? Thanks. Those are good but don't quite do it. The specs say the POE is 48v. I'd like something that you could program the POE out to 12v connected devices. Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Mike Delp wrote: 3Com was close with the Network Jack devices. made to fit in a wall outlet, poe, POE out, and 300 version was managed. Only four ports out, but initial testing was pretty cool. It is only 802.3af. nj200 is the 10/100 model, and I just googled it and there is now a nj2000 for Gigabit speeds. Thanks Mike On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo which could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable carrying POE (perferrably 48v) up the tower, and then would pass POE (adjustable voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a single Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it first. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://j2sw.mtin.net/blog From: Richey myli...@battleop.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:52:59 -0400 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL For the WISP that is still charging $30+ for 384k service, what are you doing to bring those customers more bang for their buck? Are you trying to increase speeds or bring pricing down? Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Exactly. That is what NewWays did. Our old plans on T1 or other smaller pipe were: 384K $33.00 512K $45.00 Now that we have a 50M fiber to a tower our plans are: 1M $35.00 2M $48.00 Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Networking, LLC Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Just a thought...but does the price of groceries increase when you're farther from an urban area? Obviously the costs are higher (more trucker miles, less productivity) but I wonder if milk isn't another $1 or something. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble char...@knownelement.com wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] making 5ghz link work with more power
I have one 12 mile link running the new 27dbi AirGrids as a backhaul. My signal is -70 although I've been lazy and haven't fine tuned one end yet. I'm able to transfer a clean 70+ mb/s on the link. Both ends are 100 agl, one end is 60 feet lower than the other, lots of trees but still a good link. Dump the panels, go to a parabolic type antenna. The new dual polarity Ubiquiti dish is coming out soon, may be worth the effort to try them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] making 5ghz link work with more power Consider testing some mimo 'n' gear...such as ubiquiti ... you should be able to get the 60+mbps range you are looking for. You did not say how long is the link ? (we have 2 rocket m5 w/2ft dishes, on a 8.7 mile link, with not a clean LOS, the radios are turned down in power to 20dbm, 20mhz channel, (chain0=71-73dbm/chain1=70-74dbm), the wireless side is TX/RX = 117Mbps/117Mbps.. thruput testing shows 50+Mb/s). The only stickler would be that currently the dual-polarity antenna's are not quiet in the 24db range.. they have 2ft dishes, 29db Nanobridges 10inch dish (very narrow beamwidth). should be available in the US 30-60 days. or wait for the Powerbridge M (built 2x2 Mimo, dual polarity 24db pannel)... about 90-120 days. Faisal. On 3/16/2010 8:57 AM, Scott Reed wrote: Definitely the XRs hear better than the R52. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Have a 5ghz 1mile backhaul, its near-LOS. I can barley make out the tippy top of the grain leg that the antenna is on. On both sides of link I'm using 24db panels with R52's. Anyway the signal is not that hot, about -73/-74. TCP Throughput on normal 802.11a is 17.5mbps. Turn on Nstream and its around 23.5mbps. I can not go bigger antenna's or higher on either side of link. Believe me if I could I already would have. Was thinking about upgrading each side to an XR5. I'm thinking for another 6-7db improvement over what its at now. Does anyone have any experience with making a link like this work? I need 30mbps with Nstream and possibly switching to Turnbo mode and hoping for 60+mbps. Will amping each end with a pair of RFLINX amps overcome the attenuation and make the link more solid or will this cause problems? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
I second that. Also good for the new Nanos as well with their second port. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Sometimes, but with chain stores the saving of groceries in cities helps subsidize the higher shipping cost of groceries in rural areas. Josh Luthman wrote: Just a thought...but does the price of groceries increase when you're farther from an urban area? Obviously the costs are higher (more trucker miles, less productivity) but I wonder if milk isn't another $1 or something. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble char...@knownelement.com wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
What about the weather getting to it? It's unplugged for the most part. The primary port has the wire to keep away spiders or something from laying eggs. Are spiders (bugs/dirt/etc) conductive? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I second that. Also good for the new Nanos as well with their second port. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?
I asked the same over on the Motorola list a few months back. No one knew of anything, but Chuck at Wireless Beehive said if there was enough interested he would build one. My idea was almost like yours except I wanted the ability to change the positive and negative pins for other equipment that is not following the POE standard (Moto). Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:46:38 -0430 Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo which could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable carrying POE (perferrably 48v) up the tower, and then would pass POE (adjustable voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a single Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it first. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ
Ok, I see you guy's points. I was looking at it from the point if the gov't is going to keep giving the big guys tax breaks, USF, and whatever else, it is like I am competing against my/our own money. If they are giving them some form of subsidy to build these networks, then I think we should have access to use it too. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Reply-To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:17:26 -0400 Wow Mark. For once I can actually state that I agree with your statements. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:54 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ Scottie, the problem is nothing at all to do with open access.This open access has the effect of fixing the type of access. Once you build a network, and a third party mandates you share it at prices they set, no more networks will be built. The prices will be fixed, the technology will be fixed, and nobody in that system will move anywhere. Why should they? Profit is guaranteed, forever, even if subsidy is required to support it. You have to have multiple last miles for there to be ANY competition in technological advancement. And one has to be able to build their own network and use it to best advantage without interference... or why build?If you don't believe me... Just agree to the following statement: I agree to build a network, then allow MDK to use it at a price set by people who want the public to think they're being given something at rich people's expense, and I will maintain, update, and continue to upgrade capacity, while everyone who uses my network abuses it to the maximum possible amount, while doing everything to undercut my price. I also agree that if I charge enough that I can undercut the other users, that I will continue to share at ever lower prices, so that the appearance of a monopoly will not become apparent. Yes, we have a duopoly, sort of, with cable and dsl being at an uneasy truce, but fix the prices on both, and both will halt, exactly where they are, and no further advancement will occur in EITHER industry.Why should they? Any effort to get ahead in the game simply results in your piece of the pie being confiscated and given to those who put no investment into it. Once the pipe has been defined in price, size, and technology, it simply becomes fixed.Which is why telephone service took more than a half century to advance from rotary dial to DTMF. Once we blew apart the official monopoly and allowed competition for every mile, the actual obsolescence of voice over copper became obvious in a very short period of time. You want to see REAL advancement happen?Have the FCC and Congress reduce regulatory barriers to all forms of telecommunication - from spectrum shortages, to monopoly status for various types of providers, to rules about availability of public real estate, and the repeal of at least 90% of the completely useless and pointless regulations out there. We don't need Congress or some pointy-heads at the FCC to write us a plan. it will be asininely stupid as the old Soviet Union plans to modernize the USSR.Beaurocrats are and always will be utterly incompetent at deciding such future directions. Have them repeal 99% of the income tax, OSHA, and other rules (keeping the .5% that are useful), remove the barriers to competition that exist at both federal and state levels, and give us some tools to fight the local ones, and then run for cover, because we'll be charging into the future like tigers chasing prey. Once we start setting prices by some beaurocrat, and using regulators to decide fair cost or fair price of something, that's basically... the end.They will never admit to their failures and from that point on, the game is: If it succeeds and makes a profit, tax it. If taxing it doesn't fix it, tax it some more. Once you've killed it with stupidity, then subsidize it forever to make your plan look like a success. I want no part of such things, and how DARE you people think it's a good idea to force it upon the people, and upon us... with our own money used against us, of all things. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:28 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ Did they even give the open access a chance even back then? This was the start for the end of the dial-up ISP's. Do they not remember the end of line
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
The cover has the place for that cable covered but you can snap if out of the cover if you want to use it. You can also use it as PoE but by default the firmware has the PoE turned off on that port. I find it handy to mount it, run the cable, install the PoE inside the clients structure then plug in with the network to the second port to air it. Really sweet. Also love the AirGrids where I can power it up with the USB from the netbook and aim it all with no cable ran at all. I've PRE installed 2 AirGrids that way, just hung them, aimed and left for the installer boy to come later to run the cable Was doing a site survey and just hung it on their TV tower and left it. Saved time. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? What about the weather getting to it? It's unplugged for the most part. The primary port has the wire to keep away spiders or something from laying eggs. Are spiders (bugs/dirt/etc) conductive? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I second that. Also good for the new Nanos as well with their second port. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Simple POE Device for 12 VDC Input on NanoStation?
Just received my first kit of (2) NanoStation Locos and (2) NanoStation2Ms, complete with tilt brackets... Opened the box to find a PoE injector with a chassis mounted 115VAC jack. What's going to be my best option for injecting 12 VDC off of our battery bank/plant power directly? Granted, my last play with PoE devices for wireless PtP was when the CB3s first came out (used the same power pack as the CB3 to the input connector on the injector) Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?
There is an TP-SW5-NC 5 Port switch with POE voltage from 12V to 48V. You can't have different voltages on different ports and it isn't a managed switch. http://www.wlanparts.com/product/TP-SW5-NC/High-Speed-10100Mb-5-Port-POE-Sw itch.html There is a POE crossover cable to power non standard (moto) with standard POE gear. http://www.wlanparts.com/product/TP-POE-XOVER/Power-Over-Ethernet-Voltage-P olarity-Crossover.html Scott -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch? I asked the same over on the Motorola list a few months back. No one knew of anything, but Chuck at Wireless Beehive said if there was enough interested he would build one. My idea was almost like yours except I wanted the ability to change the positive and negative pins for other equipment that is not following the POE standard (Moto). Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:46:38 -0430 Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo which could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable carrying POE (perferrably 48v) up the tower, and then would pass POE (adjustable voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a single Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it first. Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
Bob, You mean there's some way to pass the incoming POE to the 2nd port? How? Thanks! Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Robert West wrote: The cover has the place for that cable covered but you can snap if out of the cover if you want to use it. You can also use it as PoE but by default the firmware has the PoE turned off on that port. I find it handy to mount it, run the cable, install the PoE inside the clients structure then plug in with the network to the second port to air it. Really sweet. Also love the AirGrids where I can power it up with the USB from the netbook and aim it all with no cable ran at all. I've PRE installed 2 AirGrids that way, just hung them, aimed and left for the installer boy to come later to run the cable Was doing a site survey and just hung it on their TV tower and left it. Saved time. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? What about the weather getting to it? It's unplugged for the most part. The primary port has the wire to keep away spiders or something from laying eggs. Are spiders (bugs/dirt/etc) conductive? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I second that. Also good for the new Nanos as well with their second port. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Simple POE Device for 12 VDC Input on NanoStation?
The old style power injector (separate power supply and separate injection block) for the PS2 is what I used to power a PS2 connected to a generator I wanted to put on our wireless network for remote control/monitoring. I just used a different cord with a coaxial plug wired to the battery power in the generator's control panel. Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:58 PM, AJ wrote: Just received my first kit of (2) NanoStation Locos and (2) NanoStation2Ms, complete with tilt brackets... Opened the box to find a PoE injector with a chassis mounted 115VAC jack. What's going to be my best option for injecting 12 VDC off of our battery bank/plant power directly? Granted, my last play with PoE devices for wireless PtP was when the CB3s first came out (used the same power pack as the CB3 to the input connector on the injector) Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Simple POE Device for 12 VDC Input on NanoStation?
I installed some cheap cigarette style power ports I got from the Advanced Auto into our box then took some 12 volt automotive adapters to plug in and put the right barrel connector on them. The bonus is they have a fuse in them now. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Simple POE Device for 12 VDC Input on NanoStation? Just received my first kit of (2) NanoStation Locos and (2) NanoStation2Ms, complete with tilt brackets... Opened the box to find a PoE injector with a chassis mounted 115VAC jack. What's going to be my best option for injecting 12 VDC off of our battery bank/plant power directly? Granted, my last play with PoE devices for wireless PtP was when the CB3s first came out (used the same power pack as the CB3 to the input connector on the injector) Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
On the new Nanos there is. By default the power won't pass through but in the firmware you can click the box for PoE pass-through then you can use it to power up a second device. I envision using something like that as maybe a bridge for going around a corner or to bounce the signal around some obstacle by using one to catch the signal then a second to redirect it out. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? Bob, You mean there's some way to pass the incoming POE to the 2nd port? How? Thanks! Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Robert West wrote: The cover has the place for that cable covered but you can snap if out of the cover if you want to use it. You can also use it as PoE but by default the firmware has the PoE turned off on that port. I find it handy to mount it, run the cable, install the PoE inside the clients structure then plug in with the network to the second port to air it. Really sweet. Also love the AirGrids where I can power it up with the USB from the netbook and aim it all with no cable ran at all. I've PRE installed 2 AirGrids that way, just hung them, aimed and left for the installer boy to come later to run the cable Was doing a site survey and just hung it on their TV tower and left it. Saved time. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? What about the weather getting to it? It's unplugged for the most part. The primary port has the wire to keep away spiders or something from laying eggs. Are spiders (bugs/dirt/etc) conductive? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I second that. Also good for the new Nanos as well with their second port. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?
That looks good. On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:04 PM, Scott Parsons wrote: There is an TP-SW5-NC 5 Port switch with POE voltage from 12V to 48V. You can't have different voltages on different ports and it isn't a managed switch. http://www.wlanparts.com/product/TP-SW5-NC/High-Speed-10100Mb-5-Port-POE-Sw itch.html There is a POE crossover cable to power non standard (moto) with standard POE gear. http://www.wlanparts.com/product/TP-POE-XOVER/Power-Over-Ethernet-Voltage-P olarity-Crossover.html Scott -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch? I asked the same over on the Motorola list a few months back. No one knew of anything, but Chuck at Wireless Beehive said if there was enough interested he would build one. My idea was almost like yours except I wanted the ability to change the positive and negative pins for other equipment that is not following the POE standard (Moto). Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:46:38 -0430 Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo which could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable carrying POE (perferrably 48v) up the tower, and then would pass POE (adjustable voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a single Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it first. Greg --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VZ Tower Contact
Crown Castle owns the towers Verizon is on in my area, TN. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Aaron D. Osgood aosg...@streamline-solutions.net Reply-To: aosg...@streamline-solutions.net,WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:38:53 + Are you sure VZ owns the tower? In many areas of the country, while VZ may be the most prominent tenant, someone else actually owns and manages the tower site --Original Message-- From: Gary Garrett Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VZ Tower Contact Sent: Mar 16, 2010 10:27 Co-locate with Verizon? ha ha ha ha ha ! HA HA HA HA HA!!~!! I hope you have applied for CLEC status and have a BIG BIG bank account! On 3/16/2010 6:54 AM, chris cooper wrote: Does anyone have a good contact for VZ tower Co-lo in the Midwest? Thanks Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
I wish this was an option on the PowerStations. Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:27 PM, Robert West wrote: On the new Nanos there is. By default the power won't pass through but in the firmware you can click the box for PoE pass-through then you can use it to power up a second device. I envision using something like that as maybe a bridge for going around a corner or to bounce the signal around some obstacle by using one to catch the signal then a second to redirect it out. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? Bob, You mean there's some way to pass the incoming POE to the 2nd port? How? Thanks! Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Robert West wrote: The cover has the place for that cable covered but you can snap if out of the cover if you want to use it. You can also use it as PoE but by default the firmware has the PoE turned off on that port. I find it handy to mount it, run the cable, install the PoE inside the clients structure then plug in with the network to the second port to air it. Really sweet. Also love the AirGrids where I can power it up with the USB from the netbook and aim it all with no cable ran at all. I've PRE installed 2 AirGrids that way, just hung them, aimed and left for the installer boy to come later to run the cable Was doing a site survey and just hung it on their TV tower and left it. Saved time. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? What about the weather getting to it? It's unplugged for the most part. The primary port has the wire to keep away spiders or something from laying eggs. Are spiders (bugs/dirt/etc) conductive? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I second that. Also good for the new Nanos as well with their second port. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
Me too. However, if you ever need to tap into the power from the PS2, the board inside is the same board as the light station so it has a solder point for a power jack. The power jack and the PoE are connected in the same path so you can tap into it if you ever need to do such a thing. You can't actually add a jack because there is no clearance but to solder on a pigtail is very doable. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? I wish this was an option on the PowerStations. Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:27 PM, Robert West wrote: On the new Nanos there is. By default the power won't pass through but in the firmware you can click the box for PoE pass-through then you can use it to power up a second device. I envision using something like that as maybe a bridge for going around a corner or to bounce the signal around some obstacle by using one to catch the signal then a second to redirect it out. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? Bob, You mean there's some way to pass the incoming POE to the 2nd port? How? Thanks! Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Robert West wrote: The cover has the place for that cable covered but you can snap if out of the cover if you want to use it. You can also use it as PoE but by default the firmware has the PoE turned off on that port. I find it handy to mount it, run the cable, install the PoE inside the clients structure then plug in with the network to the second port to air it. Really sweet. Also love the AirGrids where I can power it up with the USB from the netbook and aim it all with no cable ran at all. I've PRE installed 2 AirGrids that way, just hung them, aimed and left for the installer boy to come later to run the cable Was doing a site survey and just hung it on their TV tower and left it. Saved time. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? What about the weather getting to it? It's unplugged for the most part. The primary port has the wire to keep away spiders or something from laying eggs. Are spiders (bugs/dirt/etc) conductive? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I second that. Also good for the new Nanos as well with their second port. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2?
That's good to know. On Mar 16, 2010, at 3:33 PM, Robert West wrote: Me too. However, if you ever need to tap into the power from the PS2, the board inside is the same board as the light station so it has a solder point for a power jack. The power jack and the PoE are connected in the same path so you can tap into it if you ever need to do such a thing. You can't actually add a jack because there is no clearance but to solder on a pigtail is very doable. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? I wish this was an option on the PowerStations. Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:27 PM, Robert West wrote: On the new Nanos there is. By default the power won't pass through but in the firmware you can click the box for PoE pass-through then you can use it to power up a second device. I envision using something like that as maybe a bridge for going around a corner or to bounce the signal around some obstacle by using one to catch the signal then a second to redirect it out. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? Bob, You mean there's some way to pass the incoming POE to the 2nd port? How? Thanks! Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Robert West wrote: The cover has the place for that cable covered but you can snap if out of the cover if you want to use it. You can also use it as PoE but by default the firmware has the PoE turned off on that port. I find it handy to mount it, run the cable, install the PoE inside the clients structure then plug in with the network to the second port to air it. Really sweet. Also love the AirGrids where I can power it up with the USB from the netbook and aim it all with no cable ran at all. I've PRE installed 2 AirGrids that way, just hung them, aimed and left for the installer boy to come later to run the cable Was doing a site survey and just hung it on their TV tower and left it. Saved time. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? What about the weather getting to it? It's unplugged for the most part. The primary port has the wire to keep away spiders or something from laying eggs. Are spiders (bugs/dirt/etc) conductive? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I second that. Also good for the new Nanos as well with their second port. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using the 2nd port on a PS2? The secondary port on the PS2 is just another ethernet port, it does not have any POE (in or out, AFAIK). You can use it to align the antenna better using a netbook and the web UI alignment tool. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone found anything useful to do with the 2nd port on a PS2? I'm finding very little information on that port on the 'net. Does it share the PS2's POE? Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
In my area the middle mile being built is exactly for institutions with a minor mention that they would sell bandwidth to providers. But the main push is for the institutions. Middle mile for whom? Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of char...@knownelement.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] FW: WISPs given short shrift
Just read this on another list, thought I would push it through to WISPA. Seems a little odd.. -drew Begin forwarded message: From: Brett Glass br...@lariat.net Date: March 16, 2010 8:32:38 AM EDT Subject: First erratum for National Broadband Plan: WISPs given short shrift Got up early this morning to begin reading the FCC's freshly released National Broadband Plan. Unfortunately, one of the first things I discovered -- after searching for the acronym WISP (wireless Internet service provider) -- is that the plan gives short shrift to our industry by making apples-to-oranges comparisons between the number of people actually SERVED by WISPs and the number of people COVERED by other forms of fixed wireless broadband. On page 77 of the report, a table purports to list the number of persons covered by various wireless technologies. But while it shows this number as 30 million (projected) for Clearwire and 6 million (also projected) for OpenRange Communications (the approximate populations of the geographic areas they cover or plan to cover), it quotes the number of people ACTUALLY SERVED by WISPs -- 2 million -- in the same table, making WISPs appear to have much less coverage than they actually do. In fact, as can be clearly seen on the static map at http://www.wirelessmapping.com/WISP%20National%20Map.png or the interactive Google map at http://www.wirelessmapping.com/Google%20Maps3.htm WISPs cover more than 250 million people -- the majority of the population of the United States and far more than either of these two individual providers. Could this very serious apples-to-oranges error have resulted in the plan's failure to recommend more of the specific policies which would facilitate WISPs' efforts to bring service to unserved and underserved areas at the lowest cost per square mile of any terrestrial broadband technology? Since the plan's Executive Summary states that the plan is still in beta, perhaps this can be the first erratum. --Brett Glass, LARIAT -- End of Forwarded Message WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
Mark, I for one, care. I know most here do as well too. To the rest, learn history and see where socialism leads to. BTW: I was one of the angry mobsters at the big Tea Party in DC and proud of it. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:16 AM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Count me with the founding Trolls, then, Jason. They had a determination to NOT be subject to the King. They were fanatics... they had one thing in mind, they never changed their mind, and they never shut up. I consider those trolls to be dang good company. If I make half the annoyances and irritation and state my case 1% as well, then, thanks for the compliment. Fanaticism in the defense of our liberty to conduct business, pursue excellence, and preserve our nation for our children is no vice. it is the essence of being responsible. The moderns have had their chance at centrally planned nations, all kinds of wacky modern ideas that don't work, and all kinds of social and economic controls, and it's an absolute failure. Every aspect of everything they do is abject failure. It's time for the advocates of all these things to shut up and go away. It's time to get back to what we know works, and really does and has worked. It's called freedom. Either we embrace it with unreserved and unyielding and uncompromising determination, or there's no reason for there to even BE a WISPA or any of us. If the central planners get their way, not a one of us will be in our own business, we'll just be cogs in their utopian machine. If you want to call for federal plans or ideas for ANY NEED of the public, then get the hell out. LEAVE. GO. You're an enemy of the future. I'm absolutely SICK of seeing my nation plundered and destroyed your types. It's time to take our money, autonomy, responsibility, power, and decisions back from Washington DC, our states, and in some cases even our neighborhoods and go it on our own - whether it's hard, easy, fair, unfair, or damn freaking crushingly miserable. Nothing they have ever done has been anything but a disaster, and nothing they have in mind now is any better. And, no, getting our share of some fund is NOT acceptable. Nor advocating it. It is no different than laundering money for the mob. You're just enabling the monster to keep growing. If WISPA can't take a stand on principle and start advocating, then... It serves no useful purpose. We're in a to the death fight for the salvation of the country, and we're on the losing side at the moment, because far too many will give up tomorrow to make it easier today. Well, we've charged the damn card to the limit, gone over the limit, and have reached bankruptcy on that plan. Nobody in Washington DC has the freaking idea what to do to prevent the worst economic and social cataclysms the world may be about to see. This experiment has gone on long enough. It's time to get back to what we know - and what we know is what founded the country, and it works. There's no time left for grandly foolish experiments. The account is empty, the credit lines exhausted, the treasury sold off, and the mortgages so deep we're far upside down. The question is, do ANY of you actually care? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jason Bailey j284...@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE Freedom...I'm feeding the trolls...hate to see anyone hungry?I never post this much,but i love watching this list and about to join $$$ with wispa.All keep it up...feeding the trolls! --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: From: Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 1:31 AM can you name me one thing that the government has given that it has not first taken? funny I keep asking - but never given an answer. Im with you MDK On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:20 AM, MDK wrote: The really big wave of mass stupidity. I can't imagine how ANYONE would want Congress's or the FCC's fingers on ANYTHING. There is only ONE way to ensure that things get more expensive, cost us terribly, and work worse... and that's to put the people who know absolutely NOTHING about real life in charge Washington DC. Please name for me anything that Washington DC has done for us, that is not a disaster of Biblical proportions. You can't. Absolutely everything they try to do for us is so horrible it's beyond insane. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jack
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
The grant that I'm benefiting from is primarily for the anchor institutions, but they worked with multiple ISPs right off the bat. I have fiber coming into my network from this. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:47 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my area the middle mile being built is exactly for institutions with a minor mention that they would sell bandwidth to providers. But the main push is for the institutions. Middle mile for whom? Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of char...@knownelement.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Well yes, ATT, Sprint, Qwest, and Verizon have fiber almost everywhere. That doesn't mean they'll sell you a service that you can cost effectively use. It's too bad the feds didn't require cooperation with all area ISPs in each application done by a public entity. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:00 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] NPR Story on FCC Broadband Plan and Internet Access in Trinity County California
On Monday, NPR aired a story on the FCC Broadband Plan and Internet access in Trinity County California. The story by Laura Sydell was in anticipation of the FCC Broadband Plan today and profiled Trinity County, a rural county in northern California. You can read/listen to the story at: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124703744 I have a few technical/business questions for the group. The story talks about Brunt Ranch Elementary School with 92 students that paid $50,000 for a satellite Internet connection. The school is not happy with the cost and the connection does not work reliably. The school doesn't have much money and only has 20 computers. Putting aside the questions about who should pay for the connection and why an elementary school needs Internet, here are my questions: 1. What type of satellite Internet connection costs $50,000? 2. Does anyone have experience deploying satellite Internet access? How much does it cost and how reliable is the service? 3. Does anyone have experience with Hughes Networks satellite Internet service? I exchanged e-mail with a Hughes rep and they offer 5Mbps business class Internet service for $399/month using a .98M dish. You can pay $28/month for 7x24 on-site service and $20/month for 5 static IP addresses. The story also talks about ATT fiber that runs through the county but ATT won't connect anyone in the county to the fiber. ATT claims that the fiber is not engineered for local feeds. A local ISP has requested to tap into the fiber to provide Internet access in the area. My questions are: 4. What does not engineered for local feeds mean? Is it possible that the fiber is for a long haul connection and it would be very expensive or impossible to connect Trinity County to the fiber? Is ATT telling the truth, outright lying or lazy? Finally, many people in the group have used microwave links for backhaul to rural areas. In a worst case scenario, Trinity County might be able to connect to fiber deployed CENIC. CENIC is a non-profit organization that connects educational and research institutions in California. CENIC has fiber in Corning which is 100 miles from Weaverville, the county seat for Trinity County. My questions are: 5. What would it cost to deploy a 100 mile microwave link between Corning and Weaverville with a minimum of 50Mbps of bandwidth but preferably 100Mbps or 1Gbps? Yes, there are many variables but assume worst case. In general, would this work and what is ballpark/order of magnitude pricing for this link? Are we talking about $500K, $1M, $5M, $10M or $50M?? What is the longest microwave link deployed by Clearwire for backhaul? Thanks, Tim -- Tim Sylvester Avanzar Networks (408) 826-8350 (o) (408) 334-1700 (m) t...@avanzarnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Bingo...we have a winner! Middle mile means sqaut when there is a single provider who know they've got you by the you-know-what in terms of pricing. Then there is the finger pointing you have to deal with when there is a problem...funny...for some reason's it's never their problem initially until you prove within a shadow of a doubt it is! We build our own wireless middle mile and that actually helps us with cost control because we are responsible for the links, also we find that customers like the fact that we have zero reliance on any ILEC. Bret Mike Hammett wrote: Well yes, ATT, Sprint, Qwest, and Verizon have fiber almost everywhere. That doesn't mean they'll sell you a service that you can cost effectively use. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Bret Clark wrote: Bingo...we have a winner! Middle mile means sqaut when there is a single provider who know they've got you by the you-know-what in terms of pricing. Thank you Bret and Mike for making my point. :) Yes there is fiber just about everywhere, but it comes down to accessibility. Then there is the finger pointing you have to deal with when there is a problem...funny...for some reason's it's never their problem initially until you prove within a shadow of a doubt it is! Hah! Yep. We build our own wireless middle mile and that actually helps us with cost control because we are responsible for the links, also we find that customers like the fact that we have zero reliance on any ILEC. Interesting. Is the purpose of the wireless middle mile to reach a carrier neutral facility? Very intriguing. I've considered doing that here in Los Angeles. Back haul to One Wilshire or something. I have friends with gear on the mountains. Hmmm Bret Mike Hammett wrote: Well yes, ATT, Sprint, Qwest, and Verizon have fiber almost everywhere. That doesn't mean they'll sell you a service that you can cost effectively use. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VZ Tower Contact
I think he meant if Verizon owned the tower. If so, good luck! Same with most cell cos. If they own it, either you cant get on it or its big bucks. At any rate, how about McDonalds - lol? http://www.kgiwireless.com/Documents/SiteProfileMCD.asp?TowerNumber=MCD004171 On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote: I am a bit confused here. Did you have a bad experience? KGI Wireless manages many of the Verizon sites, and are somewhat OK to deal with. http://www.kgiwireless.com/Documents/QueryVerizonWirelessPublicSiteList.asp They can be a little stiff - but they know what a WISP is. Back in 2000 ATC signed an agreement to sublease all the space on over 2000 Alltel towers till 2015, making them the contact for Verizon/Alltel in a lot of the country. Chris, these would probably be your best routes, if it did not help please drop me a line in email. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Gary Garrett ggarr...@nidaho.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VZ Tower Contact Co-locate with Verizon? ha ha ha ha ha ! HA HA HA HA HA!!~!! I hope you have applied for CLEC status and have a BIG BIG bank account! On 3/16/2010 6:54 AM, chris cooper wrote: Does anyone have a good contact for VZ tower Co-lo in the Midwest? Thanks Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Charles N Wyble wrote: Interesting. Is the purpose of the wireless middle mile to reach a carrier neutral facility? Very intriguing. I've considered doing that here in Los Angeles. Back haul to One Wilshire or something. I have friends with gear on the mountains. Hmmm Yup...we're running several wireless links (for redundancy) to a peering point (CLEC Hotel) then interconnect at that location to the Internet through various BGP interconnections with peer 1 and local CLEC's for short dollars. We found no issues with building management letting us put up our antenna's on the roofs. Bret WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NPR Story on FCC Broadband Plan and Internet Access in Trinity County California
As much as i hate to admit it...We still service/install hughesnet and idirect sat services.If I can help you i will,been at it almost 12 years. --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com Subject: [WISPA] NPR Story on FCC Broadband Plan and Internet Access in Trinity County California To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 6:52 PM On Monday, NPR aired a story on the FCC Broadband Plan and Internet access in Trinity County California. The story by Laura Sydell was in anticipation of the FCC Broadband Plan today and profiled Trinity County, a rural county in northern California. You can read/listen to the story at: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124703744 I have a few technical/business questions for the group. The story talks about Brunt Ranch Elementary School with 92 students that paid $50,000 for a satellite Internet connection. The school is not happy with the cost and the connection does not work reliably. The school doesn't have much money and only has 20 computers. Putting aside the questions about who should pay for the connection and why an elementary school needs Internet, here are my questions: 1. What type of satellite Internet connection costs $50,000? 2. Does anyone have experience deploying satellite Internet access? How much does it cost and how reliable is the service? 3. Does anyone have experience with Hughes Networks satellite Internet service? I exchanged e-mail with a Hughes rep and they offer 5Mbps business class Internet service for $399/month using a .98M dish. You can pay $28/month for 7x24 on-site service and $20/month for 5 static IP addresses. The story also talks about ATT fiber that runs through the county but ATT won't connect anyone in the county to the fiber. ATT claims that the fiber is not engineered for local feeds. A local ISP has requested to tap into the fiber to provide Internet access in the area. My questions are: 4. What does not engineered for local feeds mean? Is it possible that the fiber is for a long haul connection and it would be very expensive or impossible to connect Trinity County to the fiber? Is ATT telling the truth, outright lying or lazy? Finally, many people in the group have used microwave links for backhaul to rural areas. In a worst case scenario, Trinity County might be able to connect to fiber deployed CENIC. CENIC is a non-profit organization that connects educational and research institutions in California. CENIC has fiber in Corning which is 100 miles from Weaverville, the county seat for Trinity County. My questions are: 5. What would it cost to deploy a 100 mile microwave link between Corning and Weaverville with a minimum of 50Mbps of bandwidth but preferably 100Mbps or 1Gbps? Yes, there are many variables but assume worst case. In general, would this work and what is ballpark/order of magnitude pricing for this link? Are we talking about $500K, $1M, $5M, $10M or $50M?? What is the longest microwave link deployed by Clearwire for backhaul? Thanks, Tim -- Tim Sylvester Avanzar Networks (408) 826-8350 (o) (408) 334-1700 (m) t...@avanzarnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?
Cool. Those look like Home Depot ethernet jacks you're using to attach to the pigtails. How are they working out for you? Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 5:31 PM, cc...@dot11net.com wrote: Greg, We build one of these for internal use (posted about it last week), but ours is a passive device that needs an external switch. We use it in combination with a 493 or 493ah on tower tops. It takes any input voltage from 18-96 volts and outputs the same input voltage on 9 ports with two of the ports switchable between the input voltage and 12 V. Why only two ports? Well, to make it cheap enough, the voltage convertor we use only outputs about 1 amp so running more than 2 devices would probably not work. The voltage convertors we use are about $40 each so putting one on each jack would make the device pretty expensive. I'm sure we could design a power supply that would do everything we want, but since we aren't in the electronics mfg. business, it would be more costly that it is worth to us. With our next run, we will be making the board look a little different with two rows of ethernet jacks on the front of the board facing out instead of up/down. We find that getting the cables out of the jacks in the current config can be a PITA (hence the pigtails in the pics). The devices are about $150 in parts as they stand to make in small quanitites. I posted last week about it because I wanted to see if I could use some simple ICs to detect ethernet signal to trip a power relay to make a remote power cycle by disabling the ethernet port. Further research shows this is not possible without a PHY chip. I'll try to post a pic of one of our tower top boxes, but if it doesn't make it and you want to see it, hit me offlist. If you think it would be a big seller and you want to make an investment, I'm sure we could come to an agreement ;). Cameron Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo which could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable carrying POE (perferrably 48v) up the tower, and then would pass POE (adjustable voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a single Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it first. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ POE_and_RB493.jpgIMAGE_208.jpg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Yup...we're running several wireless links (for redundancy) to a peering point (CLEC Hotel) then interconnect at that location to the Internet through various BGP interconnections with peer 1 and local CLEC's for short dollars. We found no issues with building management letting us put up our antenna's on the roofs. How long are your wireless links to the CLEC hotel? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NPR Story on FCC Broadband Plan and Internet Access in Trinity County California
Replies inline On Mar 16, 2010, at 6:22 PM, Tim Sylvester wrote: 1. What type of satellite Internet connection costs $50,000? A no-bid, cost plus reseller that has a sweet contract with the school/local govt? 2. Does anyone have experience deploying satellite Internet access? How much does it cost and how reliable is the service? I've put in a few. Here in Venezuela where there's no cheap alternatives it costs around $500 a month for a 512k/128k with a reasonable contention (over sold bandwidth) ratio. It was around $1,500 for the hardware up front. Others give the equipment free (you have to return it when you quit) but they charge more for the monthly rate and make out like a bandit. 3. Does anyone have experience with Hughes Networks satellite Internet service? I exchanged e-mail with a Hughes rep and they offer 5Mbps business class Internet service for $399/month using a .98M dish. You can pay $28/month for 7x24 on-site service and $20/month for 5 static IP addresses. I checked it out heavily. There's a lot of players and resellers. The prices you quoted above are about right across the board, though the price goes up if you want a more carrier class very low contention ratio. I'm using a satellite system here. I believe our service is from Hughes. It's resold by a local reseller but it's a Hughes modem and we're pointing at a sat that carries Hughes traffic. It's less expensive (and you get more bandwidth) for the same service in the US because there's competition, but more important than the peak bandwidth quoted is the contention ratio. Even in Mexico and other Latin American countries where it's available one can get a cheap ($99) HughesNet service but that's consumer grade with the bandwidth limits and if you go over they bottleneck you down to nothing for the next 24 hour period. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] UBNT WDS Bridge mode for transparency
UBNT says you have to use WDS with Bridge mode if you want transparent packet transport with no funny business. Does that apply to one end being AP and the other being station WDS? Or do they both have to be AP? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] UBNT WDS Bridge mode for transparency
Depends on what you're using. If they're both AP and you want them both to broadcast, AP WDS is what you want. I suggest you specify MACs and not use the auto feature. If there are 3 or more APs you absolutely can not use auto as it will create a loop (ignoring STP for now...). If you want to have an AP, then a customer radio and finally their PC and see the PC's mac as if the customer radio is just a switch you need station wds. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: UBNT says you have to use WDS with Bridge mode if you want transparent packet transport with no funny business. Does that apply to one end being AP and the other being station WDS? Or do they both have to be AP? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] UBNT WDS Bridge mode for transparency
AP WDS -- station WDS Heads up, there may be an issue with the # of ARP entries the radios can take. We have a pair of Bullets as a temporary BH and it failed miserably. Then again it was passing 15Mbps + and ~400 MAC addresses. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] UBNT WDS Bridge mode for transparency UBNT says you have to use WDS with Bridge mode if you want transparent packet transport with no funny business. Does that apply to one end being AP and the other being station WDS? Or do they both have to be AP? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] UBNT WDS Bridge mode for transparency
Thanks! We're a small network here so we'll be fine. Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: AP WDS -- station WDS Heads up, there may be an issue with the # of ARP entries the radios can take. We have a pair of Bullets as a temporary BH and it failed miserably. Then again it was passing 15Mbps + and ~400 MAC addresses. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] UBNT WDS Bridge mode for transparency UBNT says you have to use WDS with Bridge mode if you want transparent packet transport with no funny business. Does that apply to one end being AP and the other being station WDS? Or do they both have to be AP? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] UBNT WDS Bridge mode for transparency
Thanks! That's exactly what I wanted to know. Yeah, found out the hard way about having three WDS APs in Auto. Even with STP on it was flakey. Greg On Mar 16, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Depends on what you're using. If they're both AP and you want them both to broadcast, AP WDS is what you want. I suggest you specify MACs and not use the auto feature. If there are 3 or more APs you absolutely can not use auto as it will create a loop (ignoring STP for now...). If you want to have an AP, then a customer radio and finally their PC and see the PC's mac as if the customer radio is just a switch you need station wds. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: UBNT says you have to use WDS with Bridge mode if you want transparent packet transport with no funny business. Does that apply to one end being AP and the other being station WDS? Or do they both have to be AP? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NPR Story on FCC Broadband Plan and Internet Access inTrinity County California
I argue that the real problem is that the School staff is not educated on where to look for alternate broadband providers. The school needs to be more resourceful. Surely they should be able to price shop between the 4-5 satelite providers to gain a better price for satelite. 2. Does anyone have experience deploying satellite Internet access? How much does it cost and how reliable is the service? Yes Hughes Satelite performs very poorly. But I'd also argue, how fast does 20 computers for elementary school kids really need to be? 5. What would it cost to deploy a 100 mile microwave link between Corning and Weaverville with a minimum of 50Mbps of bandwidth but preferably 100Mbps I'm sure they could do it for much less than the $50k. or 1Gbps? Yes, there are many variables but assume worst case. In general, would this work and what is ballpark/order of magnitude pricing for this link? Are we talking about $500K, $1M, $5M, $10M or $50M?? Regarding 1 GB, Shouldn't even go there. GB technology is extremely overpriced. And not viable for those distances. So it would be a loosing arguement for the case study. But without a doubt there is absoltuely no reason they'd ever need a GB connection. I barely need a 100mbps connection for my entire network in a major tier 1 market. What is the longest microwave link deployed by Clearwire for backhaul? Not sure I understand the question. Clearwire is not a backhaul provider. They are a last mile Mobile Wimax provider. A big VC funded Clearwire would not be the appropriate company to price compare. What this school needs is a WISP to come out and do an engineering study for them, and get them a quote.. 4. What does not engineered for local feeds mean? Is it possible that the fiber is for a long haul connection and it would be very expensive or impossible to connect Trinity County to the fiber? Is ATT telling the truth, outright lying or lazy? Of course ATT is telling the truth. There is no reason for them to lie about that case. What is also likely true is that infratructure could be modified to reverse that claim, but there is not a large enough revenue proposition to justify modifying infrastructure to enable an interconnection point in that town. Whether its a truth or not, its an outrage that ATT will not try harder to accommodate serving educational venues. Again, a good reason to call a WISP. These stories do not get sympathy from me. I jsut dont believe there are not WISPs that would be willing to assist these communities. These are the types of cases that should be getting teh Feds to understand that what they really need to be doing is creating a fund, to pay WISPs to custom build out solutions to these type problems. We dont need 100 million dollar fiber grants. We need case by case grants to pay WISPs to engineer solutions. I bet that school's $50k would have been much better spent paying a WISP to build out 4 towers and a 100mbps link, and then at the same time, 4 more communities could be served allong the way. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:52 PM Subject: [WISPA] NPR Story on FCC Broadband Plan and Internet Access inTrinity County California On Monday, NPR aired a story on the FCC Broadband Plan and Internet access in Trinity County California. The story by Laura Sydell was in anticipation of the FCC Broadband Plan today and profiled Trinity County, a rural county in northern California. You can read/listen to the story at: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124703744 I have a few technical/business questions for the group. The story talks about Brunt Ranch Elementary School with 92 students that paid $50,000 for a satellite Internet connection. The school is not happy with the cost and the connection does not work reliably. The school doesn't have much money and only has 20 computers. Putting aside the questions about who should pay for the connection and why an elementary school needs Internet, here are my questions: 1. What type of satellite Internet connection costs $50,000? 2. Does anyone have experience deploying satellite Internet access? How much does it cost and how reliable is the service? 3. Does anyone have experience with Hughes Networks satellite Internet service? I exchanged e-mail with a Hughes rep and they offer 5Mbps business class Internet service for $399/month using a .98M dish. You can pay $28/month for 7x24 on-site service and $20/month for 5 static IP addresses. The story also talks about ATT fiber that runs through the county but ATT won't connect anyone in the county to the fiber. ATT claims that the fiber is not engineered for local feeds. A local ISP has requested to tap into the fiber to provide Internet access in
Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
Chuck, Thanks. You just reminded me that the government gave us the Internet too. From Wikipedia - The origins of the Internet reach back to the 1960s when the United States funded research projects of its military agencies to build robust, fault-tolerant and distributed computer networks. This research and a period of civilian funding of a new U.S. backbone by the National Science Foundation spawned worldwide participation in the development of new networking technologies and led to the commercialization of an international network in the mid 1990s, and resulted in the following popularization of countless applications in virtually every aspect of modern human life. As of 2009, an estimated quarter of Earth's population uses the services of the Internet. jack Chuck Bartosch wrote: On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:27 AM, MDK wrote: Government "Gave" me my life? Really? Telephone? Until we got the government out of it, it was horrendously expensive and advanced none at all. That isn't really true Mark. Before the government got involved you had multiple non-interworking telephone systems. I remember my grandfather telling me when I was young that people had to have a "red telephone" and a "blue telephone" in Minneapolis where we grew up for the two phone companies if you wanted to be able to call everyone with a phone. Talk about horrendously expensive (and not just in cost, but in time). Government forced a monopoly situation that for many many decades worked to our advantage. Eventually that was broken up when it no longer served the public's interest. I also remember that friends who travelled around the world coming back always commenting about how much more advanced and how much more reliable our telecom systems were than anyone else's. And no advances? Geeze, when I was a kid everyone I knew had party lines. Not long before that you had operators connecting calls. There were a LOT of advances given the core technology that was available. It is hard to see just what kind of other advances you could have had in the 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's. The internet wasn't possible back then because home computers didn't exist and the protocols that allowed it to emerge didn't exist. It wasn't until the later 60's that transistors really became viable and allowed a lot of the dynamic advances that breaking the monopoly enabled. Yes, it took a decade or two to undo the the regulatory environment that by that point WAS holding back progress, but I respectfully submit that doing it decades earlier than that would have had no particular beneficial effect and the original intervention was hugely beneficial. Reflexively painting everything government does as bad is simplistic though has the benefit that it doesn't take a lot of thought. But it's a disservice to your own arguments and restricts your ability to influence debate and the position of others. It might be more useful to take a more balanced view that more accurately reflects reality. Chuck Now, we have services that WERE NOT EVEN CONCEIVABLE to me the year I got married. We've come that far since then. Copper to my house? Obsolete. Long distance?I haven't paid that in years. All it took was someone with a big enough club to force government to undo what it did "for" us. It could be so cheap and so competitive the cost would be trivial, but no, the pointy headed trolls in DC have to "give" us stuff. You know what? I lived for years far beyond the end of the power and phone lines. Guess what? No big loss.If we'd not subsidized bad ideas for so long, real innovation would have started LONG LONG LONG ago, to solve problems with real solutions, instead of cementing the past into stone with "good intentions". ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: "Philip Dorr" wirel...@judgementgaming.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:02 PM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE Your life? Telephone? Rural Utilities? On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: can you name me one thing that the government has given that it has not first taken? funny I keep asking - but never given an answer. Im with you MDK On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:20 AM, MDK wrote: The really big wave of mass stupidity. I can't imagine how ANYONE would want Congress's or the FCC's fingers on ANYTHING.There is only ONE way to ensure that things get more expensive, cost us terribly, and work worse... and that's to put the people who know absolutely NOTHING about real life in charge Washington DC. Please name for me anything that Washington DC has done for us, that is not a disaster of Biblical proportions. You
Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
websters.com –give (used with object) 1.to present voluntarily and without expecting compensation; bestow: to give a birthday present to someone. The government cant give anything because they get the money to pay for such things from us, the US taxpayer. They simply take and transfer ownership. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Chuck, Thanks. You just reminded me that the government gave us the Internet too. From Wikipedia - The origins of the Internet reach back to the 1960s when the United States funded research projects of its military agencies to build robust, fault-tolerant and distributed computer networks. This research and a period of civilian funding of a new U.S. backbone by the National Science Foundation spawned worldwide participation in the development of new networking technologies and led to the commercialization of an international network in the mid 1990s, and resulted in the following popularization of countless applications in virtually every aspect of modern human life. As of 2009, an estimated quarter of Earth's population uses the services of the Internet. jack Chuck Bartosch wrote: On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:27 AM, MDK wrote: Government Gave me my life? Really? Telephone? Until we got the government out of it, it was horrendously expensive and advanced none at all. That isn't really true Mark. Before the government got involved you had multiple non-interworking telephone systems. I remember my grandfather telling me when I was young that people had to have a red telephone and a blue telephone in Minneapolis where we grew up for the two phone companies if you wanted to be able to call everyone with a phone. Talk about horrendously expensive (and not just in cost, but in time). Government forced a monopoly situation that for many many decades worked to our advantage. Eventually that was broken up when it no longer served the public's interest. I also remember that friends who travelled around the world coming back always commenting about how much more advanced and how much more reliable our telecom systems were than anyone else's. And no advances? Geeze, when I was a kid everyone I knew had party lines. Not long before that you had operators connecting calls. There were a LOT of advances given the core technology that was available. It is hard to see just what kind of other advances you could have had in the 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's. The internet wasn't possible back then because home computers didn't exist and the protocols that allowed it to emerge didn't exist. It wasn't until the later 60's that transistors really became viable and allowed a lot of the dynamic advances that breaking the monopoly enabled. Yes, it took a decade or two to undo the the regulatory environment that by that point WAS holding back progress, but I respectfully submit that doing it decades earlier than that would have had no particular beneficial effect and the original intervention was hugely beneficial. Reflexively painting everything government does as bad is simplistic though has the benefit that it doesn't take a lot of thought. But it's a disservice to your own arguments and restricts your ability to influence debate and the position of others. It might be more useful to take a more balanced view that more accurately reflects reality. Chuck Now, we have services that WERE NOT EVEN CONCEIVABLE to me the year I got married. We've come that far since then. Copper to my house? Obsolete. Long distance?I haven't paid that in years. All it took was someone with a big enough club to force government to undo what it did for us. It could be so cheap and so competitive the cost would be trivial, but no, the pointy headed trolls in DC have to give us stuff. You know what? I lived for years far beyond the end of the power and phone lines. Guess what? No big loss.If we'd not subsidized bad ideas for so long, real innovation would have started LONG LONG LONG ago, to solve problems with real solutions, instead of cementing the past into stone with good intentions. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Philip Dorr wirel...@judgementgaming.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:02 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE Your life? Telephone? Rural Utilities? On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: can you name me one thing that the government has given that it has not first taken? funny I keep asking - but never given an answer. Im with you MDK On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:20 AM, MDK wrote: The really big wave of mass stupidity. I can't imagine how ANYONE would want Congress's or the FCC's fingers on
Re: [WISPA] UBNT WDS Bridge mode for transparency
Actually, at the Vegas conference UBNT said you should *never* specify MACs. I don't remember why, but you may want to check into it first! On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Depends on what you're using. If they're both AP and you want them both to broadcast, AP WDS is what you want. I suggest you specify MACs and not use the auto feature. If there are 3 or more APs you absolutely can not use auto as it will create a loop (ignoring STP for now...). If you want to have an AP, then a customer radio and finally their PC and see the PC's mac as if the customer radio is just a switch you need station wds. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: UBNT says you have to use WDS with Bridge mode if you want transparent packet transport with no funny business. Does that apply to one end being AP and the other being station WDS? Or do they both have to be AP? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Fortunately we are close to the CLEC hotel...about 2 mile links using Ceregon's and DragonWave for the connections and fail-over redundancy. At the CLEC hotel we collocate some edge BGP routers and use OSPF in the backbone for fail-over. Bret Tim Sylvester wrote: Yup...we're running several wireless links (for redundancy) to a peering point (CLEC Hotel) then interconnect at that location to the Internet through various BGP interconnections with peer 1 and local CLEC's for short dollars. We found no issues with building management letting us put up our antenna's on the roofs. How long are your wireless links to the CLEC hotel? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Chuck Bartosch wrote: In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. Yeah good gear is a tad on the expensive side. Especially with people wanting free installs. What break down do you see of free gear with minimum contact, or buy gear up front and get refund do you see with the WISPs you work with. Or are other business models in play? If so what are they? I know there have been many threads on the list about leasing/financing. So getting good gear with excellent terms seems to come down to personal choice, more then cost. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. Well that's no surprise. :) Perhaps some of the money could have been spent on funding lobbying for changes to access rules? If there is readily accessible fiber everywhere, (key words being readily accessible) then why does it seem to be such a problem for folks to access? As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Ah... so if we had access to all the information/facts you did we would see things the same way. Hmmm sorry not buying it. There have been a substantial amount of threads on this list about middle mile issues being a huge problem. Cost/access/tower colo etc. Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ
On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 13:29 -0600, Scottie Arnett wrote: If they are giving them some form of subsidy to build these networks, then I think we should have access to use it too. This is the wrong way to view it, though. I'm not looking to argue the point, but want to address this in a slightly different way. Let's take an area called ruralville, us. In Ruralville, there is a population of 1000 citizens who earn an average of $22k/year. If there were no high speed options in ruralville, would YOU build a network there? I know I would. Especially if I carried the backhaul in from a larger network. Would you require someone else to pay for the gear, or could you make the numbers work for that area? I know I could make the numbers work. NOW...the question is: If it is feasible to make it work without a subsidy, WHY SHOULD ANYONE GET ONE FOR THAT AREA? In my mind, it's not about if they get one, I want one, too. It is more along the line of if I don't NEED one, neither do they. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did
Re: [WISPA] From Today's WSJ
Either way you put it suggests that capitalism is being destroyed. On 3/16/10, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 13:29 -0600, Scottie Arnett wrote: If they are giving them some form of subsidy to build these networks, then I think we should have access to use it too. This is the wrong way to view it, though. I'm not looking to argue the point, but want to address this in a slightly different way. Let's take an area called ruralville, us. In Ruralville, there is a population of 1000 citizens who earn an average of $22k/year. If there were no high speed options in ruralville, would YOU build a network there? I know I would. Especially if I carried the backhaul in from a larger network. Would you require someone else to pay for the gear, or could you make the numbers work for that area? I know I could make the numbers work. NOW...the question is: If it is feasible to make it work without a subsidy, WHY SHOULD ANYONE GET ONE FOR THAT AREA? In my mind, it's not about if they get one, I want one, too. It is more along the line of if I don't NEED one, neither do they. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
That middle mile would bring that $1 megabit to you more affordably. If a middle mile project that I'm working with goes through, I'll have $871/month transport for 1 gigabit 60 driving miles into 350 Cermak, one of the top 4 or 5 connected buildings in the country. Yes, I have personally received multiple $1 and below quotes and I haven't been as proactive as others on this list have been. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:49 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote: I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. I meant in our area by the way (I'm sure that was obvious, but just in case). Chuck Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Right, I've been as proactive as anyone. However, in our regional rate centers those prices simply are not available. And the transport you're being quoted is 1/10th the rate we're seeing-for a similar distance I might add. And that's from one of the Round 1 winners. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:56 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: That middle mile would bring that $1 megabit to you more affordably. If a middle mile project that I'm working with goes through, I'll have $871/month transport for 1 gigabit 60 driving miles into 350 Cermak, one of the top 4 or 5 connected buildings in the country. Yes, I have personally received multiple $1 and below quotes and I haven't been as proactive as others on this list have been. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:49 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE
If I go out and shoot a deer, I took it's life (and it's meat ;-). If I give you some, I'm giving you some, whether or not I took it from someone else. If you're my kid and I give you bread, I'm giving it to you whether or not I paid for it or I broke into a store and stole it. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 8:55 PM, RickG wrote: websters.com –give (used with object) 1.to present voluntarily and without expecting compensation; bestow: to give a birthday present to someone. The government cant give anything because they get the money to pay for such things from us, the US taxpayer. They simply take and transfer ownership. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Chuck, Thanks. You just reminded me that the government gave us the Internet too. From Wikipedia - The origins of the Internet reach back to the 1960s when the United States funded research projects of its military agencies to build robust, fault-tolerant and distributed computer networks. This research and a period of civilian funding of a new U.S. backbone by the National Science Foundation spawned worldwide participation in the development of new networking technologies and led to the commercialization of an international network in the mid 1990s, and resulted in the following popularization of countless applications in virtually every aspect of modern human life. As of 2009, an estimated quarter of Earth's population uses the services of the Internet. jack Chuck Bartosch wrote: On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:27 AM, MDK wrote: Government Gave me my life? Really? Telephone? Until we got the government out of it, it was horrendously expensive and advanced none at all. That isn't really true Mark. Before the government got involved you had multiple non-interworking telephone systems. I remember my grandfather telling me when I was young that people had to have a red telephone and a blue telephone in Minneapolis where we grew up for the two phone companies if you wanted to be able to call everyone with a phone. Talk about horrendously expensive (and not just in cost, but in time). Government forced a monopoly situation that for many many decades worked to our advantage. Eventually that was broken up when it no longer served the public's interest. I also remember that friends who travelled around the world coming back always commenting about how much more advanced and how much more reliable our telecom systems were than anyone else's. And no advances? Geeze, when I was a kid everyone I knew had party lines. Not long before that you had operators connecting calls. There were a LOT of advances given the core technology that was available. It is hard to see just what kind of other advances you could have had in the 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's. The internet wasn't possible back then because home computers didn't exist and the protocols that allowed it to emerge didn't exist. It wasn't until the later 60's that transistors really became viable and allowed a lot of the dynamic advances that breaking the monopoly enabled. Yes, it took a decade or two to undo the the regulatory environment that by that point WAS holding back progress, but I respectfully submit that doing it decades earlier than that would have had no particular beneficial effect and the original intervention was hugely beneficial. Reflexively painting everything government does as bad is simplistic though has the benefit that it doesn't take a lot of thought. But it's a disservice to your own arguments and restricts your ability to influence debate and the position of others. It might be more useful to take a more balanced view that more accurately reflects reality. Chuck Now, we have services that WERE NOT EVEN CONCEIVABLE to me the year I got married. We've come that far since then. Copper to my house? Obsolete. Long distance?I haven't paid that in years. All it took was someone with a big enough club to force government to undo what it did for us. It could be so cheap and so competitive the cost would be trivial, but no, the pointy headed trolls in DC have to give us stuff. You know what? I lived for years far beyond the end of the power and phone lines. Guess what? No big loss.If we'd not subsidized bad ideas for so long, real innovation would have started LONG LONG LONG ago, to solve problems with real solutions, instead of cementing the past into stone with good intentions. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Philip Dorr wirel...@judgementgaming.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:02 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Here comes the really BIG WAVE Your life? Telephone? Rural Utilities? On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:31
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Just saying there are $1.00 mbps providers available. 4.00 is pretty common as well. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:31:14 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my
