Re: [WISPA] DHCP Question

[RickG]

I haven't seen a Belkin work right in years. Do you have another router to try?

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Scott Reed  wrote:
> I have a customer that has a RB411R as the CPE.  It is running DHCP
> server on the ethernet interface.
> They have a Belkin 3129 SOHO router that gets its address from the RB.
> At least once per day the router will drop its address and get a new
> one.  During this time the router and the customer's computers show the
> Internet is down (the router has a red/green light on the front.)
> I have replaced the radio and the POE-24i the powers it.  I thought
> maybe the Cat5 was kinked at the CPE end so I replace the RJ45.
> What am I missing that would cause a device to request a DHCP address?
>
> --
> Scott Reed
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> GAB Midwest
> 1-800-363-1544 x2241
> 1-260-827-2241
> Cell: 260-273-7239
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] DHCP Question

[Josh Luthman]

I think they wait a day for that. Could be wrong.

On Jul 22, 2010 10:52 PM, "Greg Ihnen"  wrote:

I just went there and I see now they have the package. Yesterday they only
had the torrent.

Greg

On Jul 22, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> You can't get the package from the official site?  Try a mirror?
>
>
>> On Jul 22, 2010 10:35 PM, ...

>

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Re: [WISPA] DHCP Question

[Greg Ihnen]

I just went there and I see now they have the package. Yesterday they only had 
the torrent.

Greg

On Jul 22, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> You can't get the package from the official site?  Try a mirror?
> 
> 
>> On Jul 22, 2010 10:35 PM, "Greg Ihnen"  wrote:
>> 
>> What version of RouterOS are you running? I was having problems here with 
>> clients getting leases from an RB750. I played with some of the settings in 
>> the DHCP server but the problem seemed to come and go. I'm running 5.0 beta 
>> 3 now and the DHCP problem is gone. But I often now have Winbox fail to log 
>> in (connection refused) and I have to SSH in and reboot. I'm trying to get 
>> 5.0 beta 4 but they only offer it as a torrent download and when I try and 
>> get the torrent from them the download doesn't start.
>> 
>> Greg
>> 
>> On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:08 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
>> 
>> > I have a customer that has a RB411R as the CPE. ...
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] DHCP Question

[Josh Luthman]

You can't get the package from the official site?  Try a mirror?

On Jul 22, 2010 10:35 PM, "Greg Ihnen"  wrote:

What version of RouterOS are you running? I was having problems here with
clients getting leases from an RB750. I played with some of the settings in
the DHCP server but the problem seemed to come and go. I'm running 5.0 beta
3 now and the DHCP problem is gone. But I often now have Winbox fail to log
in (connection refused) and I have to SSH in and reboot. I'm trying to get
5.0 beta 4 but they only offer it as a torrent download and when I try and
get the torrent from them the download doesn't start.

Greg


On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:08 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

> I have a customer that has a RB411R as the CPE. ...



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Re: [WISPA] DHCP Question

[Greg Ihnen]

What version of RouterOS are you running? I was having problems here with 
clients getting leases from an RB750. I played with some of the settings in the 
DHCP server but the problem seemed to come and go. I'm running 5.0 beta 3 now 
and the DHCP problem is gone. But I often now have Winbox fail to log in 
(connection refused) and I have to SSH in and reboot. I'm trying to get 5.0 
beta 4 but they only offer it as a torrent download and when I try and get the 
torrent from them the download doesn't start.

Greg

On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:08 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

> I have a customer that has a RB411R as the CPE.  It is running DHCP 
> server on the ethernet interface.
> They have a Belkin 3129 SOHO router that gets its address from the RB.  
> At least once per day the router will drop its address and get a new 
> one.  During this time the router and the customer's computers show the 
> Internet is down (the router has a red/green light on the front.)
> I have replaced the radio and the POE-24i the powers it.  I thought 
> maybe the Cat5 was kinked at the CPE end so I replace the RJ45.
> What am I missing that would cause a device to request a DHCP address?
> 
> -- 
> Scott Reed
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> GAB Midwest
> 1-800-363-1544 x2241
> 1-260-827-2241
> Cell: 260-273-7239
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Level 3 contact

[Alan Bryant]

Not a problem, hope they can help you out!

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Kristian Hoffmann  wrote:
> Contact established.  Much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Kristian
>
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 08:51 -0700, Kristian Hoffmann wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Does anyone have contact info for a Level 3 wholesale/ISP account rep?
>> I'm looking for pricing on colocation and bandwidth out of their
>> Modesto, CA POP.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>
>
>
> 
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-- 
Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator
Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC.
a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz
O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405



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Re: [WISPA] DHCP Question

[Josh Luthman]

Try setting a reservation on the mikrotik for the router.  Also remove the
client id.

On Jul 22, 2010 8:44 PM, "Leon D. Zetekoff" 
wrote:

On 07/22/2010 08:38 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
> I have a customer that has a RB411R as the CPE. It is...
whats the lease time on the rb411 dhcp server?




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Re: [WISPA] DHCP Question

[Jason Bailey]

what is your dhcp lease time set to?

--- On Thu, 7/22/10, Scott Reed  wrote:


From: Scott Reed 
Subject: [WISPA] DHCP Question
To: "WISPA General List" 
Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 8:38 PM


I have a customer that has a RB411R as the CPE.  It is running DHCP 
server on the ethernet interface.
They have a Belkin 3129 SOHO router that gets its address from the RB.  
At least once per day the router will drop its address and get a new 
one.  During this time the router and the customer's computers show the 
Internet is down (the router has a red/green light on the front.)
I have replaced the radio and the POE-24i the powers it.  I thought 
maybe the Cat5 was kinked at the CPE end so I replace the RJ45.
What am I missing that would cause a device to request a DHCP address?

-- 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x2241
1-260-827-2241
Cell: 260-273-7239




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Re: [WISPA] DHCP Question

[Leon D. Zetekoff]

  On 07/22/2010 08:38 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
> I have a customer that has a RB411R as the CPE.  It is running DHCP
> server on the ethernet interface.
> They have a Belkin 3129 SOHO router that gets its address from the RB.
> At least once per day the router will drop its address and get a new
> one.  During this time the router and the customer's computers show the
> Internet is down (the router has a red/green light on the front.)
> I have replaced the radio and the POE-24i the powers it.  I thought
> maybe the Cat5 was kinked at the CPE end so I replace the RJ45.
> What am I missing that would cause a device to request a DHCP address?
>
whats the lease time on the rb411 dhcp server?



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[WISPA] DHCP Question

[Scott Reed]

I have a customer that has a RB411R as the CPE.  It is running DHCP 
server on the ethernet interface.
They have a Belkin 3129 SOHO router that gets its address from the RB.  
At least once per day the router will drop its address and get a new 
one.  During this time the router and the customer's computers show the 
Internet is down (the router has a red/green light on the front.)
I have replaced the radio and the POE-24i the powers it.  I thought 
maybe the Cat5 was kinked at the CPE end so I replace the RJ45.
What am I missing that would cause a device to request a DHCP address?

-- 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x2241
1-260-827-2241
Cell: 260-273-7239




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Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Multi Hop BGP w/Cogent

[Larry A Weidig]

Just wanted to sent a HUGE THANKS out to Blake for his
assistance with getting this up and running!  Just for reference if
people run into this in the future it seems that Cogent requires you to
setup two BGP connections to them, the first simply to advertise your
prefixes which MUST include the loopback they assign you.  Once they get
that they then know how to route to you and then you can get the
remaining routes from the other session into your network.  There is a
discussion of this on the Mikrotik forums at:

http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5039&start=0
Hopefully this will help others in the future as Cogent really
just offered the blanket "we do not know Mikrotik" response when I
queried them for assistance.
Again THANKS!  Can now start heading home (though some of my
paths are flooded and roads closed from the storms we are having).

* Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net)
* Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
* (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
* (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Multi Hop BGP w/Cogent

Larry,

Feel free to give me a call to discuss this issue.

--
Blake Covarrubias
Systems and Network Manager
Beamspeed, LLC
928-343-0300 ext 214

On Jul 22, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> Butch Evans would probably be the best person for that.  Definitely
the best person I know for Mikrotik and BGP.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Larry A Weidig 
wrote:
>We are attempting to add Cogent as another BGP peer for
upstream
> connectivity.  No matter what we try we are unable to get the link to
> establish.  Wondering if anybody else with Cogent, BGP and Mikrotik
> would care to share an example of their config.  Sitting in NOC,
waiting
> words of wisdom...  Thanks!
> 
> * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net)
> * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
> * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
> * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free
> 
> 
> 
> 
>


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Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Multi Hop BGP w/Cogent

[Blake Covarrubias]

Larry,

Feel free to give me a call to discuss this issue.

--
Blake Covarrubias
Systems and Network Manager
Beamspeed, LLC
928-343-0300 ext 214

On Jul 22, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> Butch Evans would probably be the best person for that.  Definitely the best 
> person I know for Mikrotik and BGP.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Larry A Weidig  wrote:
>We are attempting to add Cogent as another BGP peer for upstream
> connectivity.  No matter what we try we are unable to get the link to
> establish.  Wondering if anybody else with Cogent, BGP and Mikrotik
> would care to share an example of their config.  Sitting in NOC, waiting
> words of wisdom...  Thanks!
> 
> * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net)
> * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
> * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
> * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Multi Hop BGP w/Cogent

[Josh Luthman]

Butch Evans would probably be the best person for that.  Definitely the best
person I know for Mikrotik and BGP.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Larry A Weidig  wrote:

>We are attempting to add Cogent as another BGP peer for upstream
> connectivity.  No matter what we try we are unable to get the link to
> establish.  Wondering if anybody else with Cogent, BGP and Mikrotik
> would care to share an example of their config.  Sitting in NOC, waiting
> words of wisdom...  Thanks!
>
> * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net)
> * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
> * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
> * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
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[WISPA] Mikrotik Multi Hop BGP w/Cogent

[Larry A Weidig]

We are attempting to add Cogent as another BGP peer for upstream
connectivity.  No matter what we try we are unable to get the link to
establish.  Wondering if anybody else with Cogent, BGP and Mikrotik
would care to share an example of their config.  Sitting in NOC, waiting
words of wisdom...  Thanks!

* Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net)
* Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
* (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
* (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free





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Re: [WISPA] Level 3 contact

[Kristian Hoffmann]

Contact established.  Much appreciated.

Thanks,

-Kristian

On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 08:51 -0700, Kristian Hoffmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone have contact info for a Level 3 wholesale/ISP account rep?
> I'm looking for pricing on colocation and bandwidth out of their
> Modesto, CA POP.
> 
> Thanks,
> 




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[WISPA] OT: Cellular Specialties(CSI) resellers or distributors.

[Scottie Arnett]

Are there any Cellular Specialties(CSI) resellers or distributors on the
lists? I need to ask some questions and get some quotes on their Cellular
Repeaters. I wanted to give a fellow WISP some business before I have to
call Tessco.

Scottie Arnett
Info-Ed, Inc.




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[WISPA] WISPA conference attendees: Bdale Garbee speaking in St. Charles this evening!

[Ben West]

Hello attendees of the WISPA conference in St. Louis!

The St. Charles Linux User Group was able to get Bdale Garbee to come by and
speak, today (Thursday) at 1830.

Bdale Garbee is HP's Open source and Linux Chief Technologist, as well as a
model rocket and amateur radio enthusiast. He helped instigate N6GN's work
on 10Ghz packet links,  and
continue to have a strong interest in data transmission over RF links Also,
has been a big contributor to Debian for some time as a maintainer and
developer. Check out his site for some more detail.

So definitely try to come on by!!

Bdale's website
http://www.gag.com/~bdale/

For directions/time for StCLUG - http://stclug.sluug.org/
Here's a link for directions/location
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=200%20Ft%20Zumwalt%20Square%2C%20O%27Fallon%2C%20MO%2063366

Bdale will give a talk on using open source software to control the model
rockets that he launches.


Here are some useful links:

Central States VHF Society

http://www.csvhfs.org/conference/index.html


Bdale and friends' model rocketry site

http://www.altusmetrum.org/


Bdale having Linus Torvalds as a barber!

http://lwn.net/Articles/316282/

-- 
Ben West
b...@gowasabi.net



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[WISPA] Level 3 contact

[Kristian Hoffmann]

Hi,

Does anyone have contact info for a Level 3 wholesale/ISP account rep?
I'm looking for pricing on colocation and bandwidth out of their
Modesto, CA POP.

Thanks,

-- 
Kristian Hoffmann
System Administrator
kh...@fire2wire.com
http://www.fire2wire.com  

Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-1469 | Toll Free - 800-905-FIRE






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Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.

[Justin Wilson]

Very true.  Very steep learning curve that is easily forgotten.   Go through
the tutorials several times.  The hardest part I found was getting the
correct clutter data.
-- 
Justin Wilson 
http://www.mtin.net/blog
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support



From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:41:46 -0700
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ping ---  Radio Mobile Hates Me.

Radio Mobile hates everyone that doesn't use it every day.
 
grin
marlon
 
>  
> - Original Message -
>  
> From:  Robert West 
>  
> To: WISPA General List 
>  
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 7:38 PM
>  
> Subject: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile  Hates Me.
>  
> 
>  
>  
> 
> Ping.
>  
>  
>  
> (Had to)
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Bob-
>  
>  
>  
> Still fighting the animal that is Radio Mobile.
>  
>  
>  
> Why does Radio mobile Hate Me?
>  
>  
>  
> I should have been a HAM.  Maybe it¹s just bad  KarmaŠŠ..
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> --
> --
> WISPA  Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.

[Brian Webster]

Fred,

Your points are understood and I should not have sent that
email at 2AM after spending time with fellow WISP's here at the show in the
hotel bar J That being said, to be able to zoom in and out like a consumer
level mapping program and have everything redraw on the fly is massively
computational. The terrain data has to be drawn as well as reloaded in the
map memory. The map is not what most people consider a visual map. That is
considered a picture in the program while the map is the raw terrain data
used for the propagation computations. Redrawing and rescaling all of that
would also require a repropagation. As far as losing any volatile layers,
one should not draw them and leave them volatile but save in a new picture
for comparison purposes or keep them in the same picture. For items like the
visible units just hit the redraw networks button. To redraw the map (and
resulting picture representation of the terrain) at a zoomed in level for
examining the terrain detail you can draw a box around the area of interest
and use the edit "fit map to selection" feature. Just change the map
resolution to something that fills your screen rather than the number of
pixels in the selection area. The only other way to do the on the fly
zooming is to export your plot to Google Earth and do it there. The terrain
data in that program is not the 10 meter resolution but rather 30 meter and
will at least give you the general idea of the topology.



 



Brian

 

From: Fred Goldstein [mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:39 AM
To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.

 

Brian,

Please don't misunderstand me.  I am very appreciative of the work done on
RadioMobile and the fact that it's free!  And, having worked with RF for a
long time, I'm well aware of how complex the issues are.  Which is why
searching a Yahoo group doesn't strike me as an ideal way to learn the
program.

Some of what concerns me about RM are my general concerns with most "free"
software, and this is especially true for Linux stuff, where "free as in
speech" is a religious argument that often doesn't result in this much of a
product.  The RF core of the RM package is wonderful.  I can just see a lot
of ways in which the whole thing could be even nicer if the UI were updated.
Decisions that got the job done up front may not be ideal in the long term.
(You can see a lot of that in how TCP/IP itself was written.)  Commercial
vendors generally work on these issues -- somebody is paid to do the boring
crap -- because it helps them sell. 

So if I am making suggestions, it is in the spirit of constructive
criticism, not putting down anyone's efforts.  As a user, I can see ways
that it could be better.  I am not a coder and don't know how much work any
such changes would be to implement. 

But -- as a user -- wouldn't it be nice if it had a zoom function, for
instance, so you could blow up a detail of a combined-cartestion coverage
map or show-networks view without having to redraw the whole thing?  This
might be practical if the computations were done on SRTM points (to make the
underlying map) but then to display it, those results stayed put while you
moved around and rescaled your view of it.  Lots of picture-manipulating
programs do this.  Heck, I'd pay to have it, though I guess Roger's
employment situation makes it impossible to sell a premium version. 

I hate how many Linux coders, when confronted with a problem in the code,
whine, "you have the sources, luser, fix it".  Mozilla, at least, pays
rewards for some bugs, and it's constantly improving (argh, another
"important" update this morning!).  Commercial software companies pay for
ideas to improve the product.  I'm not whining; I just spend a lot of time
with RM (I've been using it for several years) and just have ideas how it
could be even better.  As no doubt do others.  ;-)  I'm sorry if you think
I'm sounding unappreciative of the work that went in to it.

At 7/22/2010 02:00 AM, Brian Webster wrote:




I'd like to chime in as one who does professional RF engineering for a
living. I have worked with Roger for the last 10 years helping to improve
radio mobile. There are so many features that the program supports now
compared to when I started it just boggles the mind. That being said, it
should be put in to perspective that commercial software packages for RF
engineering cost from $15,000 to $70,000 dollars and do not perform any
better than Radio Mobile. As a professional RF Engineer who has had to learn
these commercial tools, I can tell you it takes a huge amount of time to
learn any RF propagation software package and that there are no shortcuts or
dummies guides. There is no substitute for time and persistence in learning
any RF software package. Much of this will be spent in trial an error and
reading the archives and tutorials. There are no shortcuts, mouse over

Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.

[Fred Goldstein]

At 7/22/2010 07:53 AM, Scott Reed wrote:

Zoom is there.  Rubberband and area and right click.
To save you searching the archive, here a couple of the tutorial sites:
http://radiomobile.pe1mew.nl
www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html



Thanks for the pointer.  That's about half way what I had in mind, 
but is more cosmetic.  That zoom function takes the underlying 
picture at its original resolution and explodes its pixels,  But it 
loses the "volatile" layers above it, and doesn't necessarily (as far 
as I can see) expose the underlying SRTM detail. At least it lets me 
redraw the networks above it though.




Fred Goldstein wrote:

Brian,

Please don't misunderstand me.  I am very appreciative of the work 
done on RadioMobile and the fact that it's free!  And, having 
worked with RF for a long time, I'm well aware of how complex the 
issues are.  Which is why searching a Yahoo group doesn't strike me 
as an ideal way to learn the program.


Some of what concerns me about RM are my general concerns with most 
"free" software, and this is especially true for Linux stuff, where 
"free as in speech" is a religious argument that often doesn't 
result in this much of a product.  The RF core of the RM package is 
wonderful.  I can just see a lot of ways in which the whole thing 
could be even nicer if the UI were updated.  Decisions that got the 
job done up front may not be ideal in the long term.  (You can see 
a lot of that in how TCP/IP itself was written.)  Commercial 
vendors generally work on these issues -- somebody is paid to do 
the boring crap -- because it helps them sell.


So if I am making suggestions, it is in the spirit of constructive 
criticism, not putting down anyone's efforts.  As a user, I can see 
ways that it could be better.  I am not a coder and don't know how 
much work any such changes would be to implement.


But -- as a user -- wouldn't it be nice if it had a zoom function, 
for instance, so you could blow up a detail of a 
combined-cartestion coverage map or show-networks view without 
having to redraw the whole thing?  This might be practical if the 
computations were done on SRTM points (to make the underlying map) 
but then to display it, those results stayed put while you moved 
around and rescaled your view of it.  Lots of picture-manipulating 
programs do this.  Heck, I'd pay to have it, though I guess Roger's 
employment situation makes it impossible to sell a premium version.


I hate how many Linux coders, when confronted with a problem in the 
code, whine, "you have the sources, luser, fix it".  Mozilla, at 
least, pays rewards for some bugs, and it's constantly improving 
(argh, another "important" update this morning!).  Commercial 
software companies pay for ideas to improve the product.  I'm not 
whining; I just spend a lot of time with RM (I've been using it for 
several years) and just have ideas how it could be even better.  As 
no doubt do others.  ;-)  I'm sorry if you think I'm sounding 
unappreciative of the work that went in to it.


At 7/22/2010 02:00 AM, Brian Webster wrote:

I'd like to chime in as one who does professional RF engineering 
for a living. I have worked with Roger for the last 10 years 
helping to improve radio mobile. There are so many features that 
the program supports now compared to when I started it just 
boggles the mind. That being said, it should be put in to 
perspective that commercial software packages for RF engineering 
cost from $15,000 to $70,000 dollars and do not perform any better 
than Radio Mobile. As a professional RF Engineer who has had to 
learn these commercial tools, I can tell you it takes a huge 
amount of time to learn any RF propagation software package and 
that there are no shortcuts or dummies guides. There is no 
substitute for time and persistence in learning any RF software 
package. Much of this will be spent in trial an error and reading 
the archives and tutorials. There are no shortcuts, mouse over or 
quick start guides. If RF design was as easy as an idiot proof 
software package, then anyone with a mouse could do it, there 
would be no need for expertise in the field. Spend the time to 
read the archives in the yahoo group and the tutorials. Impatience 
will not speed up anything and whining about a set of 
documentation or quick tools tips will not make you and RF design 
expert. Just because a person can point and click does not mean 
you can generate RF coverage maps. Some knowledge of RF theory 
helps so that one may understand the methods and settings within a 
program. If you want hand holding, cough up the 35 grand or so to 
purchase a commercial software package. I'm sure that is easier 
than reading a little bit….. If I seem sarcastic it is because I 
really get annoyed at people who complain about a free 
lunch…..This software package is free, quit complaining to the 
author about your lack of ambition to read the many manuals 
available on line. F

Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.

[Scott Reed]

Zoom is there.  Rubberband and area and right click.
To save you searching the archive, here a couple of the tutorial sites:
http://radiomobile.pe1mew.nl
www.pizon.org/*radio*-*mobile*-tutorial/index.html 





Fred Goldstein wrote:

Brian,

Please don't misunderstand me.  I am very appreciative of the work 
done on RadioMobile and the fact that it's free!  And, having worked 
with RF for a long time, I'm well aware of how complex the issues 
are.  Which is why searching a Yahoo group doesn't strike me as an 
ideal way to learn the program.


Some of what concerns me about RM are my general concerns with most 
"free" software, and this is especially true for Linux stuff, where 
"free as in speech" is a religious argument that often doesn't result 
in this much of a product.  The RF core of the RM package is 
wonderful.  I can just see a lot of ways in which the whole thing 
could be even nicer if the UI were updated.  Decisions that got the 
job done up front may not be ideal in the long term.  (You can see a 
lot of that in how TCP/IP itself was written.)  Commercial vendors 
generally work on these issues -- somebody is paid to do the boring 
crap -- because it helps them sell.


So if I am making suggestions, it is in the spirit of constructive 
criticism, not putting down anyone's efforts.  As a user, I can see 
ways that it could be better.  I am not a coder and don't know how 
much work any such changes would be to implement.


But -- as a user -- wouldn't it be nice if it had a zoom function, for 
instance, so you could blow up a detail of a combined-cartestion 
coverage map or show-networks view without having to redraw the whole 
thing?  This might be practical if the computations were done on SRTM 
points (to make the underlying map) but then to display it, those 
results stayed put while you moved around and rescaled your view of 
it.  Lots of picture-manipulating programs do this.  Heck, I'd pay to 
have it, though I guess Roger's employment situation makes it 
impossible to sell a premium version.


I hate how many Linux coders, when confronted with a problem in the 
code, whine, "you have the sources, luser, fix it".  Mozilla, at 
least, pays rewards for some bugs, and it's constantly improving 
(argh, another "important" update this morning!).  Commercial software 
companies pay for ideas to improve the product.  I'm not whining; I 
just spend a lot of time with RM (I've been using it for several 
years) and just have ideas how it could be even better.  As no doubt 
do others.  ;-)  I'm sorry if you think I'm sounding unappreciative of 
the work that went in to it.


At 7/22/2010 02:00 AM, Brian Webster wrote:

I'd like to chime in as one who does professional RF engineering for 
a living. I have worked with Roger for the last 10 years helping to 
improve radio mobile. There are so many features that the program 
supports now compared to when I started it just boggles the mind. 
That being said, it should be put in to perspective that commercial 
software packages for RF engineering cost from $15,000 to $70,000 
dollars and do not perform any better than Radio Mobile. As a 
professional RF Engineer who has had to learn these commercial tools, 
I can tell you it takes a huge amount of time to learn any RF 
propagation software package and that there are no shortcuts or 
dummies guides. There is no substitute for time and persistence in 
learning any RF software package. Much of this will be spent in trial 
an error and reading the archives and tutorials. There are no 
shortcuts, mouse over or quick start guides. If RF design was as easy 
as an idiot proof software package, then anyone with a mouse could do 
it, there would be no need for expertise in the field. Spend the time 
to read the archives in the yahoo group and the tutorials. Impatience 
will not speed up anything and whining about a set of documentation 
or quick tools tips will not make you and RF design expert. Just 
because a person can point and click does not mean you can generate 
RF coverage maps. Some knowledge of RF theory helps so that one may 
understand the methods and settings within a program. If you want 
hand holding, cough up the 35 grand or so to purchase a commercial 
software package. I'm sure that is easier than reading a little 
bit. If I seem sarcastic it is because I really get annoyed at 
people who complain about a free lunch.This software package is 
free, quit complaining to the author about your lack of ambition to 
read the many manuals available on line. For those of us who 
understand the value of this free product, we dislike those who would 
say things to possibly discourage the author who donates his time and 
effort for free giving a product that would otherwise cost in the 
thousands of dollarsthose who think they are entitled just 
because they sit behind a keyboard and can complain, need a reality 
check. If you don't like the product that you paid nothing 
for...simply move on and

Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.

[Fred Goldstein]

Brian,

Please don't misunderstand me.  I am very appreciative of the work 
done on RadioMobile and the fact that it's free!  And, having worked 
with RF for a long time, I'm well aware of how complex the issues 
are.  Which is why searching a Yahoo group doesn't strike me as an 
ideal way to learn the program.


Some of what concerns me about RM are my general concerns with most 
"free" software, and this is especially true for Linux stuff, where 
"free as in speech" is a religious argument that often doesn't result 
in this much of a product.  The RF core of the RM package is 
wonderful.  I can just see a lot of ways in which the whole thing 
could be even nicer if the UI were updated.  Decisions that got the 
job done up front may not be ideal in the long term.  (You can see a 
lot of that in how TCP/IP itself was written.)  Commercial vendors 
generally work on these issues -- somebody is paid to do the boring 
crap -- because it helps them sell.


So if I am making suggestions, it is in the spirit of constructive 
criticism, not putting down anyone's efforts.  As a user, I can see 
ways that it could be better.  I am not a coder and don't know how 
much work any such changes would be to implement.


But -- as a user -- wouldn't it be nice if it had a zoom function, 
for instance, so you could blow up a detail of a combined-cartestion 
coverage map or show-networks view without having to redraw the whole 
thing?  This might be practical if the computations were done on SRTM 
points (to make the underlying map) but then to display it, those 
results stayed put while you moved around and rescaled your view of 
it.  Lots of picture-manipulating programs do this.  Heck, I'd pay to 
have it, though I guess Roger's employment situation makes it 
impossible to sell a premium version.


I hate how many Linux coders, when confronted with a problem in the 
code, whine, "you have the sources, luser, fix it".  Mozilla, at 
least, pays rewards for some bugs, and it's constantly improving 
(argh, another "important" update this morning!).  Commercial 
software companies pay for ideas to improve the product.  I'm not 
whining; I just spend a lot of time with RM (I've been using it for 
several years) and just have ideas how it could be even better.  As 
no doubt do others.  ;-)  I'm sorry if you think I'm sounding 
unappreciative of the work that went in to it.


At 7/22/2010 02:00 AM, Brian Webster wrote:

I'd like to chime in as one who does professional RF engineering for 
a living. I have worked with Roger for the last 10 years helping to 
improve radio mobile. There are so many features that the program 
supports now compared to when I started it just boggles the mind. 
That being said, it should be put in to perspective that commercial 
software packages for RF engineering cost from $15,000 to $70,000 
dollars and do not perform any better than Radio Mobile. As a 
professional RF Engineer who has had to learn these commercial 
tools, I can tell you it takes a huge amount of time to learn any RF 
propagation software package and that there are no shortcuts or 
dummies guides. There is no substitute for time and persistence in 
learning any RF software package. Much of this will be spent in 
trial an error and reading the archives and tutorials. There are no 
shortcuts, mouse over or quick start guides. If RF design was as 
easy as an idiot proof software package, then anyone with a mouse 
could do it, there would be no need for expertise in the field. 
Spend the time to read the archives in the yahoo group and the 
tutorials. Impatience will not speed up anything and whining about a 
set of documentation or quick tools tips will not make you and RF 
design expert. Just because a person can point and click does not 
mean you can generate RF coverage maps. Some knowledge of RF theory 
helps so that one may understand the methods and settings within a 
program. If you want hand holding, cough up the 35 grand or so to 
purchase a commercial software package. I'm sure that is easier than 
reading a little bit….. If I seem sarcastic it is because I really 
get annoyed at people who complain about a free lunch…..This 
software package is free, quit complaining to the author about your 
lack of ambition to read the many manuals available on line. For 
those of us who understand the value of this free product, we 
dislike those who would say things to possibly discourage the author 
who donates his time and effort for free giving a product that would 
otherwise cost in the thousands of dollars….those who think they are 
entitled just because they sit behind a keyboard and can complain, 
need a reality check. If you don't like the product that you paid 
nothing for…simply move on and be quiet. This was never meant to be 
a for profit program…..accept it for what it is and be thankful 
rather than complain. Any other options are far worse………




Brian

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]