Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Glenn Kelley
Bob - your using time warners bandwidth - 
simply use theirs - your ip ranges are theirs anyhow - 

best results - as I have found :-)

On Sep 12, 2010, at 11:03 PM, Robert West wrote:

 I use Speedtest.Net for my own tests to verify my CPE settings.  Yeah, 
 sometimes it sucks but I have to change to a better server normally and I 
 tell the customer the same thing.  Right now we are defaulted to some B.S. 
 speed test server with a 73ms ping time!  WTF!73MS???!!!
  
 Flippin’ stupid!
  
 Bob-
  
  
  
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 7:29 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] speed test
  
 OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to 
 speedtest.net and dslreports.com - the question is: what do you do? I've 
 never really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing the 
 load and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I get 
 these people who think they're not getting what they pay for :(
 -RickG
 
 
 
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_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
Bob, How do you do burst at 2x the contracted speed on UBNT? AFAIK, the
burst is in bytes transfered, not bits per second.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

 I do bursting too. 2x the contracted speed.  Makes a big WOW response with
 web pages and had made ZERO impact on my network!



 Makes me rethink NOT charging a fee for bursting!



 Bob-







 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *Jason Bailey
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:10 PM

 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] speed test



 turn on bursting?works awesome,they don't wanna tell you the results
 because they think they are getting way more than they should.


 --- On *Sun, 9/12/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com* wrote:


 From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
 Subject: [WISPA] speed test
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 7:29 PM

 OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to
 speedtest.net and dslreports.com - the question is: what do you do? I've
 never really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing
 the load and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I
 get these people who think they're not getting what they pay for :(

 -RickG


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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread j2840fl
Yep,set burst at cpe,works very nice!
Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:24:20 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test




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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread j2840fl
Dave,I'm fairly sure moto let's you set the burst on the sm,same place you set 
the ul/dl speeds.
Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: David Williamson dwilliam...@customcomputersva.com
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:35:23 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test




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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Mike Hammett
 Mikrotik routers would handle all of this.  If I'd done it, I'd tell 
you how.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 9/13/2010 3:24 AM, RickG wrote:
Bob, How do you do burst at 2x the contracted speed on UBNT? AFAIK, 
the burst is in bytes transfered, not bits per second.


On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Robert West 
robert.w...@just-micro.com mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote:


I do bursting too. 2x the contracted speed.  Makes a big WOW
response with web pages and had made ZERO impact on my network!

Makes me rethink NOT charging a fee for bursting!

Bob-

*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org
mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Bailey
*Sent:* Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:10 PM


*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] speed test

turn on bursting?works awesome,they don't wanna tell you the
results because they think they are getting way more than they should.



--- On *Sun, 9/12/10, RickG /rgunder...@gmail.com
mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com/* wrote:


From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com
Subject: [WISPA] speed test
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
mailto:wireless@wispa.org
Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 7:29 PM

OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed
tests to speedtest.net http://speedtest.net/ and dslreports.com
http://dslreports.com/ - the question is: what do you do? I've
never really had good results with off net speed tests even when
removing the load and running directly t from my laptop to my
fiber connection. But I get these people who think they're not
getting what they pay for :(

-RickG


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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Nick Olsen
Its worse then that here. Were 6ms off the local speedtest server. And it 
still gives us crap.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(877) 804-3001  x106



From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:03 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test



Ironton!  For me Ironton SUCKS!  Ping 108ms!!!

Why in the hell are they defaulting g you to arm pit Ironton?

Been there  that place sucks!



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 7:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

My fiver is through TW. They insist I use the Ironton server which, IMO always 
provides an accurate result. The issue is these people dont believe it and want 
to see their speed results elsewhere :(

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
wrote:


Speed test mini just after your upstream pipe.


On Sep 12, 2010 7:29 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to 
speedtest.net and dslreports.com - the question is: what do you do? I've never 
really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing the load 
and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I get these 
people who think they're not getting what they pay for :(

-RickG





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Re: [WISPA] WaveRider LMS 3000

2010-09-13 Thread my_em...@webjogger.net
 An elevated noise floor will push your avg rssi levels up basically 
making your acceptable EUM signal levels higher than usual. A typical 
EUM under perfect conditions can have link up to -89, but with an 
elevated noise floor the acceptable signal level becomes higher and 
higher. You'll need to run a spectrum analysis at the CCU to see what 
noise floor you get.


A good way to test is with the file get  and file put commands 
either from the EUM or CCU. This performs a bandwidth test between 
radios. My experience is that with a unacceptable connection the upload 
will be really slow or non existent.


By the way, I have an excess inventory of these radios that I'm looking 
to sell real cheap. Contact me off list if you're interested.


Jon


On 9/12/2010 12:53 AM, Chris Hudson wrote:

In the eum (client) use 'ra li' and make sure you see at least 6 for signal 
strength and 3 for quality. Waveriders are polling protocol and high latency is 
normal unless you keep the data connection active.

Chris

Chuck Hoggch...@shelbybb.com  wrote:


That is from the CCU side.  In all of our testing we are seeing high ping
spikes.  Is there any other commands than air that you would recommend for
trouble shooting and if there are do you mind explaining them?

Regards,

Chuck


On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:35 PM, my_em...@webjogger.net
my_em...@webjogger.net  wrote:


  I think a lot depends on what the signal strength is on the CCU (AU) side.
I several links that from the EUM (SU) are worse than -85, but at the CCU
they are better than -78. Mind you these links aren't supper fast though,
especially on the upload. It's okay if they're a lower usage customer.

Jon


On 9/10/2010 6:54 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:

Does anyone use this equipment or have experience in using this equipment?

  With Canopy/UBNT/MikroTik we have pretty much set the standard for QoS
reasons that the signal should not be worse than -75.  I have seen another
WISP using this older WaveRider gear, and most of his clients are at -80 to
-95.  Are signals using this equipment that usable at those rates?  Can
anyone shed some light on this really old gear?  Any information is
appreciated...

Regards,

Chuck





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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Jerry Richardson
You need a router or bandwidth shaper that limits the burst rate independently 
of the SM.

Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Sep 13, 2010, at 1:25 AM, RickG 
rgunder...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

Bob, How do you do burst at 2x the contracted speed on UBNT? AFAIK, the burst 
is in bytes transfered, not bits per second.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Robert West 
mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.comrobert.w...@just-micro.commailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com
 wrote:
I do bursting too. 2x the contracted speed.  Makes a big WOW response with web 
pages and had made ZERO impact on my network!

Makes me rethink NOT charging a fee for bursting!

Bob-



From: mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Jason Bailey
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:10 PM

To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

turn on bursting?works awesome,they don't wanna tell you the results because 
they think they are getting way more than they should.


--- On Sun, 9/12/10, RickG 
mailto:rgunder...@gmail.comrgunder...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.com
 wrote:

From: RickG 
mailto:rgunder...@gmail.comrgunder...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.com
Subject: [WISPA] speed test
To: WISPA General List 
mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org
Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 7:29 PM
OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to 
http://speedtest.net/ speedtest.nethttp://speedtest.net and 
http://dslreports.com/ dslreports.comhttp://dslreports.com - the question 
is: what do you do? I've never really had good results with off net speed tests 
even when removing the load and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber 
connection. But I get these people who think they're not getting what they pay 
for :(
-RickG

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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Jerry Richardson
All you need to do is cap the max data rate. Let the sm handle bursting.


Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Sep 13, 2010, at 9:32 AM, RickG 
rgunder...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

I didnt catch that part from Bob but thats what I'm thinking. So, I'll add 
bursting to my RB1000. But not sure what config allows bursting for all 
customers.
BTW: I did add bursting (in bytes transferred) to the complaining customers 
UBNT and he says it is fixed!

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Jerry Richardson 
mailto:jrichard...@aircloud.comjrichard...@aircloud.commailto:jrichard...@aircloud.com
 wrote:
You need a router or bandwidth shaper that limits the burst rate independently 
of the SM.

Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Sep 13, 2010, at 1:25 AM, RickG 
mailto:rgunder...@gmail.comrgunder...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.com
 wrote:

Bob, How do you do burst at 2x the contracted speed on UBNT? AFAIK, the burst 
is in bytes transfered, not bits per second.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Robert West 
mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.commailto:robert.w...@just-micro.comrobert.w...@just-micro.commailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com
 wrote:
I do bursting too. 2x the contracted speed.  Makes a big WOW response with web 
pages and had made ZERO impact on my network!

Makes me rethink NOT charging a fee for bursting!

Bob-



From: mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Jason Bailey
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:10 PM

To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

turn on bursting?works awesome,they don't wanna tell you the results because 
they think they are getting way more than they should.


--- On Sun, 9/12/10, RickG 
mailto:rgunder...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.comrgunder...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.com
 wrote:

From: RickG 
mailto:rgunder...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.comrgunder...@gmail.commailto:rgunder...@gmail.com
Subject: [WISPA] speed test
To: WISPA General List 
mailto:wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org
Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 7:29 PM
OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to 
http://speedtest.net/ http://speedtest.net 
speedtest.nethttp://speedtest.net and http://dslreports.com/ 
http://dslreports.com dslreports.comhttp://dslreports.com - the question 
is: what do you do? I've never really had good results with off net speed tests 
even when removing the load and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber 
connection. But I get these people who think they're not getting what they pay 
for :(
-RickG

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[WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Steve Barnes
All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a AP 
with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.  They are 
all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to contractual 
issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering taking down the 
Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 
sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT 
Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow flies.

Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till everyone 
is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you get it on?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Servicehttp://www.rcwifi.com/



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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Josh Luthman
What kind of bandwidth are you pushing through the ap now?

On Sep 13, 2010 1:32 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
the snow flies.



Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
get it on?



*Steve Barnes*

RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/




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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Steve Barnes
At peak times I am running about 4-6M 95th percentile on this one AP.

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Servicehttp://www.rcwifi.com/

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge


What kind of bandwidth are you pushing through the ap now?
On Sep 13, 2010 1:32 PM, Steve Barnes 
st...@pcswin.commailto:st...@pcswin.com wrote:
All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a AP 
with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.  They are 
all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to contractual 
issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering taking down the 
Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 
sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT 
Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow flies.

Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till everyone 
is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you get it on?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Servicehttp://www.rcwifi.com/




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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Bret Clark

Can you go to a bigger channel size? Are the CPE's running any form of QoS?

On 09/13/2010 01:43 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:


*At peak times I am running about 4-6M 95^th percentile on this one AP. *

* *

*Steve Barnes *

RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/

*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman

*Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 1:34 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

What kind of bandwidth are you pushing through the ap now?

On Sep 13, 2010 1:32 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
mailto:st...@pcswin.com wrote:

All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT. 
 I have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints

about slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This
is a tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore
equipment.  So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120
degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector. 
It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT

Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow flies.

Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax
till everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work
fine till you get it on?

*Steve Barnes*

RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/






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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Josh Luthman
Or have you tried different channels?  Is it a newer radio in the MT
so you can do a spectrum analysis?

I would expect up to 15 megs aggregate out of a 10Mhz 802.11a AP and
if you are at 1/3 of that then bandwidth isn't an issue.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Bret Clark bcl...@spectraaccess.com wrote:
 Can you go to a bigger channel size? Are the CPE's running any form of QoS?

 On 09/13/2010 01:43 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 At peak times I am running about 4-6M 95th percentile on this one AP.



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge



 What kind of bandwidth are you pushing through the ap now?

 On Sep 13, 2010 1:32 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
 get it on?



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Forbes Mercy
From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy 
when you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, 
pings went from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no 
matter what time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't put 
usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT 
expects filtering to be done in your router before their equipment, and 
it will never go down because it's just a transparent bridge so traffic 
that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the LAN port 
won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found that if you 
use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and connections with 
non-, its far better to have all Airmax running rather than a mix, this 
means replacing CPE so that all customers on that tower are the same 
equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's low cost) but worth it.


Forbes Mercy
Washington Broadband

On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:


All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I 
have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about 
slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a 
tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  
So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and 
putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to 
physically switch all my clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but 
would like to get it done before the snow flies.


Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till 
everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine 
till you get it on?


*Steve Barnes*

RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/





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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Steve Barnes
I guess I didn't make myself clear.  They are not concerned about slow speeds 
of downloads more of a matter that there is 60 clients hitting an AP with no 
TDMA or any kind of timing and they start griping about their VOIP.  I was 
always told that on a 20 mhz 802.11b/g network that you were best to stay under 
40 clients.  On a 10 Mhz 802.11g not to go much over 60 Clients.   I see that 
the Airmax with the TDMA will handle a higher density of clients per AP.

Is my thinking wrong on these numbers?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

Or have you tried different channels?  Is it a newer radio in the MT
so you can do a spectrum analysis?

I would expect up to 15 megs aggregate out of a 10Mhz 802.11a AP and
if you are at 1/3 of that then bandwidth isn't an issue.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Bret Clark bcl...@spectraaccess.com wrote:
 Can you go to a bigger channel size? Are the CPE's running any form of QoS?

 On 09/13/2010 01:43 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 At peak times I am running about 4-6M 95th percentile on this one AP.



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge



 What kind of bandwidth are you pushing through the ap now?

 On Sep 13, 2010 1:32 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
 get it on?



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread John Vogel
 Can the UBNT co-exist with MT APs in the same environment or will the
UBNT wipe out all other 802.11x based APs on nearby channels within
hearing distance?

On 9/13/2010 1:10 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:
 From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy
 when you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units,
 pings went from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no
 matter what time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't put
 usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT
 expects filtering to be done in your router before their equipment,
 and it will never go down because it's just a transparent bridge so
 traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the
 LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found
 that if you use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and
 connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax running
 rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers on
 that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's low
 cost) but worth it.

 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband

 On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I
 have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about
 slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a
 tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment. 
 So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector
 and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take
 time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment
 but would like to get it done before the snow flies. 

  

 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine
 till you get it on?

  

 *Steve Barnes*

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/




 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
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Re: [WISPA] Cogent in St. Louis

2010-09-13 Thread Justin Wilson
Cheapest depends on location.  I have seen Cogent in the sub $1 per meg
in places.  I have seen Hurricane Electric meet or beat cogent pricing in
other markets.  I have seen level3 beat cogent pricing in certain markets.
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: Jim Patient sa...@jeffcosoho.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:54:03 -0500
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cogent in St. Louis

   So who is the cheapest these days?  Cogent is $600/mth for 100/100.
 
Jim Patient 
Cell: 314-565-6863 
Desk: 636-692-4200 
YIM: jeffcosoho
www.wlan1.com http://www.wlan1.com
www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net
www.wifimidwest.com http://www.wifimidwest.com
 
 On 9/10/2010 12:25 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
   I believe i saw an article a few months ago that said Cogent was now
 settlement free.  Not sure how accurate that was, though.
  
  The thing is, though, Cogent isn't even the cheapest you can get in major
 metros anymore.
  
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
  
  On 9/10/2010 11:56 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
  Re: [WISPA] Cogent in St. Louis Cogent is the Family Dollar/Dollar
 General/$1 store of bandwidth providers.  It¹s cheap, they have a decent
 network and have quite a number of servers on Cogent bandwidth.  This means a
 good deal of web traffic is headed toward cogent without much return.  The
 Big players tolerate this because the last time they tried de-peering it took
 out half the internet (not really but caused some waves).  I remember this
 because I had 400 web-sites on some cogent servers.  All of a sudden a good
 majority of my customers at the time could not get to their own web-sites.
  
  It¹s a pretty decent business plan actually.  Offer cheap bandwidth for
 servers, get a bunch of sites hosted on that bandwidth, and the Internet
 finds you.  From that point on the Tier 1 and others are almost forced to
 peer with you.
  -- 
  Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
  http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
  http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
  Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support
  
  
  
  
 
 From: Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com
  Reply-To: n...@brevardwireless.com,  WISPA General List
 wireless@wispa.org
  Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:01:48 -0400
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cogent in St. Louis
  
  Can't speak for Cogent in St. Louis, But we have it here in Florida and it
 works well. The 2 peer setup is a bit weird at first, but it works. The
 support is good, You get a engineer on first call. Not like TW Telecom where
 you call open a ticket and get a call back, The person that answers the phone
 can make changes and such.
  
  Nick Olsen
  Network Operations
  (877) 804-3001  x106
  
  
  
  
   
 
 From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
  Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 11:47 AM
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cogent in St. Louis
  
  That is certainly always a concern, but their number of peers is increasing
 tremendously.
  
  http://www.fixedorbit.com/stats.htm
  
  They're the 9th largest in terms of IP space and 2nd largest in terms of
 peered networks.
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
  
  
  On 9/10/2010 10:17 AM, David E. Smith wrote:
   
 I can't speak to Cogent in Saint Louis specifically, but be aware that
 Cogent has a bit of a history with peering disputes, and occasionally cuts
 off (or is cut off from) largish chunks of the Internet. I don't know if I'd
 want to single-home to Cogent, but as part of a robust multi-homed solution,
 sure. 
  
  David Smith
  MVN.net
  
  
  
  
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Josh Luthman
I see, you're talking about quality not raw speeds - you said
complaints about slowdowns.  I would say TDMA would be the best bet
to solve this problem cost effectively.

If you half the channel size, half the number of clients.  Not the
other way around.

Can the UBNT co-exist

Contract issues says he can only replace the radio, not add more equipment.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:17 PM, John Vogel jvo...@vogent.net wrote:
 Can the UBNT co-exist with MT APs in the same environment or will the UBNT
 wipe out all other 802.11x based APs on nearby channels within hearing
 distance?

 On 9/13/2010 1:10 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:

 From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when
 you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings went
 from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what
 time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL
 like Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be
 done in your router before their equipment, and it will never go down
 because it's just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have
 overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the LAN port won't happen on
 Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found that if you use dual-polarity you
 can't mix that with non-dual and connections with non-, its far better to
 have all Airmax running rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that
 all customers on that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to
 UBNT's low cost) but worth it.

 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband

 On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
 get it on?



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Bret Clark
We enabled WMM on our Mikrotik's and then just added a Mangle rule to 
ensure the DSCP was marked correctly, this solved VoIP issues for our users.


On 09/13/2010 02:20 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 I see, you're talking about quality not raw speeds - you said
 complaints about slowdowns.  I would say TDMA would be the best bet
 to solve this problem cost effectively.

 If you half the channel size, half the number of clients.  Not the
 other way around.


 Can the UBNT co-exist
  
 Contract issues says he can only replace the radio, not add more equipment.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:17 PM, John Vogeljvo...@vogent.net  wrote:

 Can the UBNT co-exist with MT APs in the same environment or will the UBNT
 wipe out all other 802.11x based APs on nearby channels within hearing
 distance?

 On 9/13/2010 1:10 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:

  From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when
 you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings went
 from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what
 time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL
 like Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be
 done in your router before their equipment, and it will never go down
 because it's just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have
 overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the LAN port won't happen on
 Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found that if you use dual-polarity you
 can't mix that with non-dual and connections with non-, its far better to
 have all Airmax running rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that
 all customers on that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to
 UBNT's low cost) but worth it.

 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband

 On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
 get it on?



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Steve Barnes
Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax dual pol 
antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP Connected to a Laird 24Dbi 
Grid Vertical only dish, that even though the Bullet has Airmax as part of it, 
it wont connect.  Or are you saying that all your clients need to be new with 
Airmax ability?

Steve Barnes
General Manager
PCS-WINhttp://www.pcswin.com/
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Servicehttp://www.rcwifi.com/

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when you 
make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings went from 
their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what time.  Just 
be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, 
there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be done in your router 
before their equipment, and it will never go down because it's just a 
transparent bridge so traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment 
and crashed the LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've 
found that if you use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and 
connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax running rather than a 
mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers on that tower are the same 
equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's low cost) but worth it.

Forbes Mercy
Washington Broadband

On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a AP 
with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.  They are 
all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to contractual 
issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering taking down the 
Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 
sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT 
Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow flies.

Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till everyone 
is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you get it on?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Servicehttp://www.rcwifi.com/











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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Josh Luthman
I think Airmax is a transport protocol, like 802.11a/b/g/n.

The way I understand it, to do 802.11n (or Airmax MIMO) you need two
streams.  If it catches only one stream, it falls back to a/g.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:
 Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax dual
 pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP Connected to a
 Laird 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even though the Bullet has Airmax
 as part of it, it wont connect.  Or are you saying that all your clients
 need to be new with Airmax ability?



 Steve Barnes

 General Manager

 PCS-WIN

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge



 From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when
 you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings went
 from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what
 time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL
 like Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be
 done in your router before their equipment, and it will never go down
 because it's just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have
 overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the LAN port won't happen on
 Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found that if you use dual-polarity you
 can't mix that with non-dual and connections with non-, its far better to
 have all Airmax running rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that
 all customers on that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to
 UBNT's low cost) but worth it.

 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband

 On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
 get it on?



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service









 

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!

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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Justin Wilson
Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The
polling is different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and TDMA is
polling. 802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the polling is flawed for
such purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik units with nstreme enabled that
had 70 clients at 3meg burstable speeds.  I am interested to see how many
clients an airmax AP can handle.
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax dual
pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP Connected to a
Laird 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even though the Bullet has Airmax
as part of it, it wont connect.  Or are you saying that all your clients
need to be new with Airmax ability?
 

Steve Barnes
General Manager
PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/
 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
 
From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when you
make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings went from
their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what time.  Just be
ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, there
is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be done in your router before
their equipment, and it will never go down because it's just a transparent
bridge so traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the
LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found that if you
use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and connections with non-,
its far better to have all Airmax running rather than a mix, this means
replacing CPE so that all customers on that tower are the same equipment, spendy
(relative to UBNT's low cost) but worth it.

Forbes Mercy
Washington Broadband

On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE¹s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
the snow flies.  
 
Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
get it on?
 

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/
 
 
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Glenn Kelley
experience here shows sub 50 as a max  - for the price point - it cannot be 
beat however 


On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:

Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The polling 
 is different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and TDMA is polling. 
 802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the polling is flawed for such 
 purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik units with nstreme enabled that had 70 
 clients at 3meg burstable speeds.  I am interested to see how many clients an 
 airmax AP can handle.
 -- 
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
 http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
 Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support
 
 
 
 From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
 
 Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax dual 
 pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP Connected to a Laird 
 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even though the Bullet has Airmax as part 
 of it, it wont connect.  Or are you saying that all your clients need to be 
 new with Airmax ability?
  
 
 Steve Barnes
 General Manager
 PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/ 
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ 
  
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
 
 From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when you 
 make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings went 
 from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what time. 
  Just be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL like 
 Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be done in 
 your router before their equipment, and it will never go down because it's 
 just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik 
 equipment and crashed the LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're 
 right, I've found that if you use dual-polarity you can't mix that with 
 non-dual and connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax 
 running rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers on 
 that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's low cost) but 
 worth it.
 
 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband
 
 On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote: 
 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a 
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.  
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to 
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering 
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket 
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my clients 
 to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow 
 flies.  
  
 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till everyone 
 is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you get it on?
  
 
 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ 
 
  
  
  
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
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 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 
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_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Forbes Mercy

Steve,

All of our 2.4 are Mikrotik and we're pretty happy with that but as you 
say past 50 it starts to get pretty ugly.  We added an M2 and put some 
dual polarity CPE out there, they worked great with it.  We turned 
Airmax off because we had a non-M2 UBNT radio that we wanted to connect, 
it took some work but by mounting it vertically but selecting horizontal 
it worked, on vertical it would connect but not pass traffic.  We 
haven't tried non-ubnt equipment like Engeinus yet but our assumption is 
we would actually mount the antenna horizontal and have the same result.


The optimal answer is to mount it right above your Mikrotik, pick a good 
separation frequency then move all your M2/M5 stuff over to it first for 
Airmax then make all your new installs with Airmax to it.  We've done 
this in transitioning towers over, now our UBNT M5 has more people on it 
than the original Mikrotik which has a comfortable 35 non-M 
subscribers.  Again, remember to turn on Firewall rules, consider 
bandwidth shaping and put in rules for icmp and block 255.255.255.255 
then it will give much of the same protections that you are used to on 
Mikrotik.


Forbes Mercy
Washington Broadband, Inc.

On 9/13/2010 11:30 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:


Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax 
dual pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP 
Connected to a Laird 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even though 
the Bullet has Airmax as part of it, it wont connect.  Or are you 
saying that all your clients need to be new with Airmax ability?


*Steve Barnes*

General Manager

PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/

RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/

*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Forbes Mercy

*Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy 
when you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, 
pings went from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no 
matter what time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't put 
usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT 
expects filtering to be done in your router before their equipment, 
and it will never go down because it's just a transparent bridge so 
traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the 
LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found 
that if you use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and 
connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax running 
rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers on 
that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's low 
cost) but worth it.


Forbes Mercy
Washington Broadband

On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:

All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I 
have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about 
slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a 
tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  
So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and 
putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to 
physically switch all my clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but 
would like to get it done before the snow flies.


Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till 
everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine 
till you get it on?


*Steve Barnes*

RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/

  
  
  
  


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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Steve Barnes
Glenn,  My concern is I already have 58 clients on a MT AP.  I need Double 
that.  Your saying you don't see more than 50 working right.  Please explain.  
UBNT says 300 Clients per AP no problem.

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Servicehttp://www.rcwifi.com/

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 3:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

experience here shows sub 50 as a max  - for the price point - it cannot be 
beat however


On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:


   Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The polling is 
different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and TDMA is polling. 
802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the polling is flawed for such 
purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik units with nstreme enabled that had 70 
clients at 3meg burstable speeds.  I am interested to see how many clients an 
airmax AP can handle.
--
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.netx-msg://84/j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support



From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.comx-msg://84/st...@pcswin.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgx-msg://84/wireless@wispa.org
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgx-msg://84/wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax dual pol 
antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP Connected to a Laird 24Dbi 
Grid Vertical only dish, that even though the Bullet has Airmax as part of it, 
it wont connect.  Or are you saying that all your clients need to be new with 
Airmax ability?


Steve Barnes
General Manager
PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/


From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgx-msg://84/wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when you 
make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings went from 
their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what time.  Just 
be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, 
there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be done in your router 
before their equipment, and it will never go down because it's just a 
transparent bridge so traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment 
and crashed the LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've 
found that if you use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and 
connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax running rather than a 
mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers on that tower are the same 
equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's low cost) but worth it.

Forbes Mercy
Washington Broadband

On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a AP 
with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.  They are 
all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to contractual 
issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering taking down the 
Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 
sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT 
Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow flies.

Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till everyone 
is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you get it on?


Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/





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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Glenn Kelley
If your mixing non airmax with airmax - about 50 is the max 
if not - then seems much better - just run airmax 

:-) 

hope that helps 

On Sep 13, 2010, at 3:17 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 Glenn,  My concern is I already have 58 clients on a MT AP.  I need Double 
 that.  Your saying you don’t see more than 50 working right.  Please explain. 
  UBNT says 300 Clients per AP no problem.
  
 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
  
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 3:14 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
  
 experience here shows sub 50 as a max  - for the price point - it cannot be 
 beat however 
  
  
 On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:
 
 
Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The polling 
 is different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and TDMA is polling. 
 802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the polling is flawed for such 
 purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik units with nstreme enabled that had 70 
 clients at 3meg burstable speeds.  I am interested to see how many clients an 
 airmax AP can handle.
 -- 
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
 http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
 Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support
 
 
 
 From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
 
 Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax dual 
 pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP Connected to a Laird 
 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even though the Bullet has Airmax as part 
 of it, it wont connect.  Or are you saying that all your clients need to be 
 new with Airmax ability?
  
 
 Steve Barnes
 General Manager
 PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/ 
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ 
  
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
 
 From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when you 
 make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings went 
 from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what time. 
  Just be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL like 
 Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be done in 
 your router before their equipment, and it will never go down because it's 
 just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik 
 equipment and crashed the LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're 
 right, I've found that if you use dual-polarity you can't mix that with 
 non-dual and connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax 
 running rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers on 
 that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's low cost) but 
 worth it.
 
 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband
 
 On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote: 
 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a 
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.  
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to 
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering 
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket 
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my clients 
 to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow 
 flies.  
  
 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till everyone 
 is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you get it on?
  
 
 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ 
 
  
  
  
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Pat O'Connor
In my experience Tranzeo and UBNT don't play nice together.  If you 
don't mind switching out your tranzeo CPE's with UBNT gear you'll be fine.


Steve Barnes wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I 
 have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about 
 slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a 
 tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  
 So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and 
 putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to 
 physically switch all my clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but 
 would like to get it done before the snow flies. 

  

 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till 
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine 
 till you get it on?

  

 *Steve Barnes*

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/

 



 
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[WISPA] Taking Mikrotik down

2010-09-13 Thread Forbes Mercy
Brett, I'm impressed with your knowledge of Mikrotik programming so I 
wanted to ask you this.  Last week and further back about four times a 
week we had a cascading crash of our bridged network whereas the LAN 
side of the Mikrotik Backhauls would crash presumably from traffic.  
Wireshark showed some anomalies such as IPv6 traffic, some ICMP sneaking 
through the filters, a random STP Cisco and some TCP flooding but really 
nothing that should take down so many radios, a simple reboot fixed the 
problem and it didn't happen again for a day to several days later.

Friday we changed out three Mikrotik backhauls and AP's with Ubiquity 
gear and upgraded our Bandwidth manager enhancing its rules as well.  
Today we're having the same attack as before but now it's not taking 
down the system, Our bandwidth monitor is pegged on incoming traffic and 
outgoing traffic at 176% of normal (we normally peak at 99% download 30% 
up) but no radio's are going down, our system latency at the affected 
tower is 300ms and we're getting intermittent down alarms.  Its great 
because we have the first chance to go customer by customer trying to 
find the source but I guess I'm asking if you have any ideas how to find 
or filter this problem?  We think the source is comin

Thanks,
Forbes



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Re: [WISPA] Taking Mikrotik down

2010-09-13 Thread Glenn Kelley
On your ubnt equipment - did you enable stp  ?
using a syslog -?  might show a good amount of info if so 
On Sep 13, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:

 Brett, I'm impressed with your knowledge of Mikrotik programming so I 
 wanted to ask you this.  Last week and further back about four times a 
 week we had a cascading crash of our bridged network whereas the LAN 
 side of the Mikrotik Backhauls would crash presumably from traffic.  
 Wireshark showed some anomalies such as IPv6 traffic, some ICMP sneaking 
 through the filters, a random STP Cisco and some TCP flooding but really 
 nothing that should take down so many radios, a simple reboot fixed the 
 problem and it didn't happen again for a day to several days later.
 
 Friday we changed out three Mikrotik backhauls and AP's with Ubiquity 
 gear and upgraded our Bandwidth manager enhancing its rules as well.  
 Today we're having the same attack as before but now it's not taking 
 down the system, Our bandwidth monitor is pegged on incoming traffic and 
 outgoing traffic at 176% of normal (we normally peak at 99% download 30% 
 up) but no radio's are going down, our system latency at the affected 
 tower is 300ms and we're getting intermittent down alarms.  Its great 
 because we have the first chance to go customer by customer trying to 
 find the source but I guess I'm asking if you have any ideas how to find 
 or filter this problem?  We think the source is comin
 
 Thanks,
 Forbes
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
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_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Tony C. Loosle
I think UBNT means 300 per cell or per 3 radios. So, only 100 per ap radio.

t

 Glenn, My concern is I already have 58 clients on a MT AP. I need
 Double that. Your saying you don’t see more than 50 working right.
 Please explain. UBNT says 300 Clients per AP no problem.


 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 3:14 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge


 experience here shows sub 50 as a max - for the price point - it
 cannot be beat however


 On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:


  Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine. The
 polling is different than the MIMO technology. Mimo is Antenna and
 TDMA is polling. 802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the
 polling is flawed for such purposes. I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik
 units with nstreme enabled that had 70 clients at 3meg burstable
 speeds. I am interested to see how many clients an airmax AP can
 handle.
 --
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
 http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting
 – Tower Climbing – Network Support


 From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

 Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with
 Airmax dual pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2
 HP Connected to a Laird 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even
 though the Bullet has Airmax as part of it, it wont connect. Or
 are you saying that all your clients need to be new with Airmax
 ability?


 Steve Barnes
 General Manager
 PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/;
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/;


 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

 From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very
 happy when you make the switch. I just replaced three Mikrotik
 BH/AP units, pings went from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to
 a steady 15ms no matter what time. Just be ready for three
 things, you can't put usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, there
 is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be done in your
 router before their equipment, and it will never go down because
 it's just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have
 overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the LAN port won't
 happen on Ubiquity. Oh and you're right, I've found that if you
 use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and
 connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax running
 rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers
 on that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's
 low cost) but worth it.

 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband

 On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.  
 I have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints
 about slowdowns. They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g. This
 is a tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore
 equipment. So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120
 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector. 
 It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT
 Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow
 flies. 

 Has anyone down this? Success? I know I cannot turn on Airmax
 till everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work
 fine till you get it on?


 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/;


 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Mike Hammett

 More than 50 per any AP and you're running out of bandwidth.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 9/13/2010 2:13 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:
experience here shows sub 50 as a max  - for the price point - it 
cannot be beat however



On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:

   Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The 
polling is different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and 
TDMA is polling. 802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the polling 
is flawed for such purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik units with 
nstreme enabled that had 70 clients at 3meg burstable speeds.  I am 
interested to see how many clients an airmax AP can handle.

--
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net x-msg://84/j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support




*From: *Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com x-msg://84/st...@pcswin.com
*Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
x-msg://84/wireless@wispa.org

*Date: *Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
*To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
x-msg://84/wireless@wispa.org

*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax 
dual pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP 
Connected to a Laird 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even though 
the Bullet has Airmax as part of it, it wont connect.  Or are you 
saying that all your clients need to be new with Airmax ability?



*Steve Barnes
*General Manager
PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/


*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
x-msg://84/wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Forbes Mercy

*Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy 
when you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP 
units, pings went from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 
15ms no matter what time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't 
put usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, there is less routing because 
UBNT expects filtering to be done in your router before their 
equipment, and it will never go down because it's just a transparent 
bridge so traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and 
crashed the LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, 
I've found that if you use dual-polarity you can't mix that with 
non-dual and connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax 
running rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that all 
customers on that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to 
UBNT's low cost) but worth it.


Forbes Mercy
Washington Broadband

On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I 
have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about 
slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a 
tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment. 
 So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector 
and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take 
time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment 
but would like to get it done before the snow flies.


Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till 
everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine 
till you get it on?



*Steve Barnes
*RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/





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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Travis Johnson
 And I think that's a very optimistic number even at that... but time 
will tell.


Travis
Microserv


On 9/13/2010 1:53 PM, Tony C. Loosle wrote:
I think UBNT means 300 per cell or per 3 radios.  So, only 100 per ap 
radio.

t


 Glenn,  My concern is I already have 58 clients on a MT AP.  I need
 Double that.  Your saying you don't see more than 50 working right.
 Please explain.  UBNT says 300 Clients per AP no problem.


 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 3:14 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge


 experience here shows sub 50 as a max  - for the price point - it
 cannot be beat however


 On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:


   Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The
 polling is different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and
 TDMA is polling. 802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the
 polling is flawed for such purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik
 units with nstreme enabled that had 70 clients at 3meg burstable
 speeds.  I am interested to see how many clients an airmax AP can
 handle.
 --
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
 http://www.mtin.net/blog -- xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw -- Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting
 -- Tower Climbing -- Network Support


 From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

 Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with
 Airmax dual pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2
 HP Connected to a Laird 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even
 though the Bullet has Airmax as part of it, it wont connect.  Or
 are you saying that all your clients need to be new with Airmax
 ability?


 Steve Barnes
 General Manager
 PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/ http://www.pcswin.com/%3E;
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ 
http://www.rcwifi.com/%3E;



 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

 From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very
 happy when you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik
 BH/AP units, pings went from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to
 a steady 15ms no matter what time.  Just be ready for three
 things, you can't put usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, there
 is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be done in your
 router before their equipment, and it will never go down because
 it's just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have
 overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the LAN port won't
 happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found that if you
 use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and
 connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax running
 rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers
 on that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's
 low cost) but worth it.

 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband

 On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.
 I have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints
 about slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This
 is a tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore
 equipment.  So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120
 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.
 It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT
 Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow
 flies.

 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax
 till everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work
 fine till you get it on?


 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ 
http://www.rcwifi.com/%3E;



 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Steve Barnes
Mike explain.  Doesn't that depend on your over subscription and queues.  We 
use MT control queues and sell a 1024 X 256 and 2048 X 51 service off this 
tower.  I feed it with a 20Mb Link.


Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Servicehttp://www.rcwifi.com/

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 3:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

More than 50 per any AP and you're running out of bandwidth.




-

Mike Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions

http://www.ics-il.com



On 9/13/2010 2:13 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:
experience here shows sub 50 as a max  - for the price point - it cannot be 
beat however


On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:


   Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The polling is 
different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and TDMA is polling. 
802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the polling is flawed for such 
purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik units with nstreme enabled that had 70 
clients at 3meg burstable speeds.  I am interested to see how many clients an 
airmax AP can handle.
--
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.netx-msg://84/j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support



From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.comx-msg://84/st...@pcswin.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgx-msg://84/wireless@wispa.org
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgx-msg://84/wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax dual pol 
antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP Connected to a Laird 24Dbi 
Grid Vertical only dish, that even though the Bullet has Airmax as part of it, 
it wont connect.  Or are you saying that all your clients need to be new with 
Airmax ability?


Steve Barnes
General Manager
PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/


From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgx-msg://84/wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when you 
make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings went from 
their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what time.  Just 
be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, 
there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be done in your router 
before their equipment, and it will never go down because it's just a 
transparent bridge so traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment 
and crashed the LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've 
found that if you use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and 
connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax running rather than a 
mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers on that tower are the same 
equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's low cost) but worth it.

Forbes Mercy
Washington Broadband

On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a AP 
with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.  They are 
all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to contractual 
issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering taking down the 
Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 
sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT 
Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow flies.

Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till everyone 
is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you get it on?


Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/





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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Chris Wallace
Try the Fort Myers, FL site.  I host that server here in our facility.

---Chris

On Sep 13, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Nick Olsen wrote:

 Its worse then that here. Were 6ms off the local speedtest server. And it 
 still gives us crap.
 
 Nick Olsen
 Network Operations
 (877) 804-3001  x106
 
 From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
 Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:03 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test
 
 Ironton!  For me Ironton SUCKS!  Ping 108ms!!!
  
 Why in the hell are they defaulting g you to arm pit Ironton?
  
 Been there……..  that place sucks!
  
  
  
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 7:43 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test
  
 My fiver is through TW. They insist I use the Ironton server which, IMO 
 always provides an accurate result. The issue is these people dont believe it 
 and want to see their speed results elsewhere :(
 
 On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
 wrote:
 Speed test mini just after your upstream pipe.
 
 On Sep 12, 2010 7:29 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to 
 speedtest.net and dslreports.com - the question is: what do you do? I've 
 never really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing the 
 load and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I get 
 these people who think they're not getting what they pay for :(
 -RickG
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Mike Hammett
 Well, it is dependent on what you sell, but I believe we should be 
selling bigger and bigger packages and to future-proof ourselves from 
the oncoming video surge.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 9/13/2010 3:01 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:


Mike explain.  Doesn't that depend on your over subscription and 
queues.  We use MT control queues and sell a 1024 X 256 and 2048 X 51 
service off this tower.  I feed it with a 20Mb Link.


*Steve Barnes*

RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/

*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett

*Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 3:45 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

More than 50 per any AP and you're running out of bandwidth.

  
-

Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
  



On 9/13/2010 2:13 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:

experience here shows sub 50 as a max  - for the price point - it 
cannot be beat however


On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:



   Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The 
polling is different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and 
TDMA is polling. 802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the polling 
is flawed for such purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik units with 
nstreme enabled that had 70 clients at 3meg burstable speeds.  I am 
interested to see how many clients an airmax AP can handle.

--
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net x-msg://84/j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog -- xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw -- Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting -- Tower Climbing -- Network Support




*From: *Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com x-msg://84/st...@pcswin.com
*Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
x-msg://84/wireless@wispa.org

*Date: *Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
*To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
x-msg://84/wireless@wispa.org

*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax 
dual pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP 
Connected to a Laird 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even though 
the Bullet has Airmax as part of it, it wont connect.  Or are you 
saying that all your clients need to be new with Airmax ability?



*Steve Barnes
*General Manager
PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/


*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
x-msg://84/wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Forbes Mercy

*Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy 
when you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, 
pings went from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no 
matter what time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't put 
usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT 
expects filtering to be done in your router before their equipment, 
and it will never go down because it's just a transparent bridge so 
traffic that would have overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the 
LAN port won't happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found 
that if you use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and 
connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax running 
rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers on 
that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's low 
cost) but worth it.


Forbes Mercy
Washington Broadband

On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I 
have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about 
slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a 
tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment. 
 So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector 
and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time 
to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but 
would like to get it done before the snow flies.


Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till 
everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine 
till you get it on?



*Steve Barnes
*RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/





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Re: [WISPA] Taking Mikrotik down

2010-09-13 Thread Butch Evans
On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 12:30 -0700, Forbes Mercy wrote: 
 Brett, 

Not sure who Brett is, but...

 Wireshark showed some anomalies such as IPv6 traffic

There is more IPV6 traffic on the network than most people realize.
I've got captures from about 40 networks dating back to about a year and
a half ago that nearly ALL have IPv6 traffic (tunneled over v4 of
course).  

 Friday we changed out three Mikrotik backhauls and AP's with Ubiquity 
 gear and upgraded our Bandwidth manager enhancing its rules as well.  
 Today we're having the same attack as before but now it's not taking 
 down the system, Our bandwidth monitor is pegged on incoming traffic and 
 outgoing traffic at 176% of normal (we normally peak at 99% download 30% 
 up) but no radio's are going down, our system latency at the affected 
 tower is 300ms and we're getting intermittent down alarms.  Its great 
 because we have the first chance to go customer by customer trying to 
 find the source but I guess I'm asking if you have any ideas how to find 
 or filter this problem?  We think the source is comin

Not sure what the rest of this sentence was going to be, but I may be
able to offer some quickie checks to do. 

1. Run torch on the interface(s) in question
2. Sort by source or destination IP (depending on which one is your
customer IP range).
3. Look for patterns such as: 
a. one IP making many connections to the same IP on different
ports (port scanner)
b. one IP making many connections to many IPs on the same port
(virus)
c. one IP making many connections to many IPs on different ports
(likely to be a torrent or other P2P)
4. If you don't see any of the above patterns, sort by bandwidth (tx
then rx rates) and look to see if it is just one user consuming an
inordinate amount of bandwidth

This should give you a starting point anyway.
-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] Taking Mikrotik down

2010-09-13 Thread Kristian Hoffmann
We inherited a bridged network (bridged EoIP tunnels over routing
w/OSPF) that had similar problems.  It turned out to be caused by Belkin
(and similar) routers that resend packets they don't think they should
have received (or don't know what to do with) back out their WAN
interface.  If you have two of these routers on the same ethernet
segment...boom.  It loops until one of your backhauls fails and breaks
the cycle.

The reason I think this is similar to your case is that maybe the
Ubiquiti backhauls you installed have a lower PPS capability, and in a
way are protecting your router from the onslaught.

One way to test this theory is to set the horizon to the same value on
all of your bridge ports facing customers at all of your aggregation
points.  This will prevent the bridge from forwarding traffic between
customers.  It worked for us while trying to isolate the problem because
each tower has it's own EoIP tunnel terminating on a central router.
So, we could control what gets forwarded where in one location.  If your
network is bridged from core to edge, then this would be harder (not
impossible) to implement.

If you do this, though, customers on the same IP subnet won't be able to
reach each other.

Regards,

-Kristian

On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 12:30 -0700, Forbes Mercy wrote:
 Brett, I'm impressed with your knowledge of Mikrotik programming so I 
 wanted to ask you this.  Last week and further back about four times a 
 week we had a cascading crash of our bridged network whereas the LAN 
 side of the Mikrotik Backhauls would crash presumably from traffic.  
 Wireshark showed some anomalies such as IPv6 traffic, some ICMP sneaking 
 through the filters, a random STP Cisco and some TCP flooding but really 
 nothing that should take down so many radios, a simple reboot fixed the 
 problem and it didn't happen again for a day to several days later.
 
 Friday we changed out three Mikrotik backhauls and AP's with Ubiquity 
 gear and upgraded our Bandwidth manager enhancing its rules as well.  
 Today we're having the same attack as before but now it's not taking 
 down the system, Our bandwidth monitor is pegged on incoming traffic and 
 outgoing traffic at 176% of normal (we normally peak at 99% download 30% 
 up) but no radio's are going down, our system latency at the affected 
 tower is 300ms and we're getting intermittent down alarms.  Its great 
 because we have the first chance to go customer by customer trying to 
 find the source but I guess I'm asking if you have any ideas how to find 
 or filter this problem?  We think the source is comin
 
 Thanks,
 Forbes
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Jeremie Chism
Agreed. Here where I am at 3 Meg is the lower end. People are used to having 
more and more bandwidth. Most of my customers are in the 6-8 Meg range with 
some wanting 10-15. It doesn't matter that they really don't need more that 
probably 4. That is what the customer wants so I guess that is what drives us 
forward. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 13, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:

 Well, it is dependent on what you sell, but I believe we should be selling 
 bigger and bigger packages and to future-proof ourselves from the oncoming 
 video surge.
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 On 9/13/2010 3:01 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:
 
 Mike explain.  Doesn’t that depend on your over subscription and queues.  We 
 use MT control queues and sell a 1024 X 256 and 2048 X 51 service off this 
 tower.  I feed it with a 20Mb Link.
  
  
 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
  
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 3:45 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
  
 More than 50 per any AP and you're running out of bandwidth.
 
  
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
  
 
 On 9/13/2010 2:13 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:
 experience here shows sub 50 as a max  - for the price point - it cannot be 
 beat however 
  
  
 On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:
 
 
Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The polling 
 is different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and TDMA is polling. 
 802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the polling is flawed for such 
 purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik units with nstreme enabled that had 70 
 clients at 3meg burstable speeds.  I am interested to see how many clients 
 an airmax AP can handle.
 -- 
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
 http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
 Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support
 
 
 
 From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
 
 Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with Airmax dual 
 pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2 HP Connected to a 
 Laird 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even though the Bullet has Airmax 
 as part of it, it wont connect.  Or are you saying that all your clients 
 need to be new with Airmax ability?
  
 
 Steve Barnes
 General Manager
 PCS-WIN http://www.pcswin.com/ 
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ 
  
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
 
 From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy when 
 you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings 
 went from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what 
 time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the ACL 
 like Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be 
 done in your router before their equipment, and it will never go down 
 because it's just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have 
 overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the LAN port won't happen on 
 Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found that if you use dual-polarity 
 you can't mix that with non-dual and connections with non-, its far better 
 to have all Airmax running rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so 
 that all customers on that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative 
 to UBNT's low cost) but worth it.
 
 Forbes Mercy
 Washington Broadband
 
 On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote: 
 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a 
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.  
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to 
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering 
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket 
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my 
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before 
 the snow flies.  
  
 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till 
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you 
 get it on?
  
 
 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ 
 
  
  
  
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Chris Hudson
I have 50 to 70 clients on a b MT AP and it handles it fine. I've even heard 
of over 100 on a only-g MT AP.

Chris
- Original Message - 
From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge


I guess I didn't make myself clear.  They are not concerned about slow 
speeds of downloads more of a matter that there is 60 clients hitting an AP 
with no TDMA or any kind of timing and they start griping about their VOIP. 
I was always told that on a 20 mhz 802.11b/g network that you were best to 
stay under 40 clients.  On a 10 Mhz 802.11g not to go much over 60 Clients. 
I see that the Airmax with the TDMA will handle a higher density of clients 
per AP.

Is my thinking wrong on these numbers?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

Or have you tried different channels?  Is it a newer radio in the MT
so you can do a spectrum analysis?

I would expect up to 15 megs aggregate out of a 10Mhz 802.11a AP and
if you are at 1/3 of that then bandwidth isn't an issue.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Bret Clark bcl...@spectraaccess.com 
wrote:
 Can you go to a bigger channel size? Are the CPE's running any form of 
 QoS?

 On 09/13/2010 01:43 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 At peak times I am running about 4-6M 95th percentile on this one AP.



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge



 What kind of bandwidth are you pushing through the ap now?

 On Sep 13, 2010 1:32 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT. I have a
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g. This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment. So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT 
 Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector. It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this? Success? I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till 
 you
 get it on?



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service


 
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Re: [WISPA] [IMPORTANCE LEVEL: HIGH] TV Whitespaces Support Letter Template

2010-09-13 Thread Randy Cosby
 How long does it typically take for these to show up when submitted?  
I put one in this morning (and didn't bother to record the confirmation 
number), but don't see it there yet.


Randy


On 9/13/2010 3:12 PM, Rick Harnish wrote:


*UPDATE:  WISP Filing updates are beginning to show up in the FCC 
database.  Good job and thank you to those who have filed.  Go to 
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment_search/input?z=vd7pb and search 
for 04-186 to read other WISP comments.  More importantly, get your 
comments filed pronto.  The deadline is September 16, 2010.  We need a 
good showing from the WISP industry to substantiate the importance of 
our industry in the decision making process.  This is not about WISPA, 
it is about your future and the WISP industry.*


All WISPs,

This week, WISPA filed comments on the TV Whitespaces once again.  The 
FCC is set to make decisions on this crucial topic very soon.  It is 
imperative for all operators to take a few minutes and file individual 
comments to the FCC about Unlicensed use of the TV Whitespaces 
spectrum this week.  Please don't procrastinate as the timeline is 
fairly short.


I have attached a template support letter that Jack Unger has written 
to make your support and comment filing easier.  Jack, Steve Coran and 
the FCC committee has worked hard for several years and especially in 
our recent filing.  We need to support their hard work efforts and 
produce a mass support campaign to give the WISPA filing even more 
credibility.  WISPs need more spectrum and we need spectrum that will 
penetrate foliage and other obstacles.  This is our opportunity and 
essentially our obligation to stand up for our needs before this 
crucial decision is made.  The WISPA filing can be read at 
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7020911589.


Please customize the attached template letter with your company 
information and if you want to add additional local flavor, it is 
accepted.  The FCC staff will read each letter and register the 
support for the WISPA filing to assist them in making this tough 
decision.  We have received excellent comments back from the FCC, 
other trade associations and manufacturers about this filing and now 
our membership and industry participants need to stand up and be 
counted as well.


Once you have customized the letter, please make a .pdf copy or a .doc 
file and upload it at the following website. 
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/upload/display?z=rhroc.  If you choose 
not to use the WISPA template letter but want to write your own 
comments, you can either follow the previous procedure or use the 
Express filing method at 
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/upload/display?z=nc5cd.  The proceeding 
number is 04-186.


I cannot stress how important this is for each WISP company to do.  I 
hope to search the filings Monday morning and find 1000 or more new 
comments supporting the WISPA filing.  Take the time and git r dun 
before your busy work schedule begins again Monday morning.


Respectfully,

*Rick Harnish*

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org





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--
Randy Cosby| InfoWest, Inc   | www.infowest.com
Vice President | 435-674-0165 x 2010 | facebook.com/infowest






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[WISPA] FW: [Motorola II] Re: [IMPORTANCE LEVEL: HIGH] TV Whitespaces Support Letter Template

2010-09-13 Thread Rick Harnish
 

 

From: Rick Harnish [mailto:rharn...@wispa.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 5:32 PM
To: 'motor...@afmug.com'
Subject: RE: [Motorola II] Re: [WISPA] [IMPORTANCE LEVEL: HIGH] TV
Whitespaces Support Letter Template

 

Usually 12-24 hours not counting weekends.  I'm sure the FCC wants to
preview all comments before they make them public to keep spammers out.  I
look forward to reading your comments Randy.  

 

Thank you,

 

Rick

 

From: motor...@afmug.com [mailto:motor...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Cosby
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 5:26 PM
To: motor...@afmug.com; WISPA General List
Subject: [Motorola II] Re: [WISPA] [IMPORTANCE LEVEL: HIGH] TV Whitespaces
Support Letter Template

 

How long does it typically take for these to show up when submitted?  I put
one in this morning (and didn't bother to record the confirmation number),
but don't see it there yet.

Randy


On 9/13/2010 3:12 PM, Rick Harnish wrote: 

 

UPDATE:  WISP Filing updates are beginning to show up in the FCC database.
Good job and thank you to those who have filed.  Go to
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment_search/input?z=vd7pb and search for
04-186 to read other WISP comments.  More importantly, get your comments
filed pronto.  The deadline is September 16, 2010.  We need a good showing
from the WISP industry to substantiate the importance of our industry in the
decision making process.  This is not about WISPA, it is about your future
and the WISP industry.

 

All WISPs,

 

This week, WISPA filed comments on the TV Whitespaces once again.  The FCC
is set to make decisions on this crucial topic very soon.  It is imperative
for all operators to take a few minutes and file individual comments to the
FCC about Unlicensed use of the TV Whitespaces spectrum this week.  Please
don't procrastinate as the timeline is fairly short.

 

I have attached a template support letter that Jack Unger has written to
make your support and comment filing easier.  Jack, Steve Coran and the FCC
committee has worked hard for several years and especially in our recent
filing.  We need to support their hard work efforts and produce a mass
support campaign to give the WISPA filing even more credibility.  WISPs need
more spectrum and we need spectrum that will penetrate foliage and other
obstacles.  This is our opportunity and essentially our obligation to stand
up for our needs before this crucial decision is made.  The WISPA filing can
be read at  http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7020911589
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7020911589.  

 

Please customize the attached template letter with your company information
and if you want to add additional local flavor, it is accepted.  The FCC
staff will read each letter and register the support for the WISPA filing to
assist them in making this tough decision.  We have received excellent
comments back from the FCC, other trade associations and manufacturers about
this filing and now our membership and industry participants need to stand
up and be counted as well.

 

Once you have customized the letter, please make a .pdf copy or a .doc file
and upload it at the following website.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/upload/display?z=rhroc.  If you choose not to
use the WISPA template letter but want to write your own comments, you can
either follow the previous procedure or use the Express filing method at
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/upload/display?z=nc5cd.  The proceeding number
is 04-186.

 

I cannot stress how important this is for each WISP company to do.  I hope
to search the filings Monday morning and find 1000 or more new comments
supporting the WISPA filing.  Take the time and git r dun before your busy
work schedule begins again Monday morning.

 

Respectfully,

 

Rick Harnish

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org

 

 
 
 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 

-- 
Randy Cosby| InfoWest, Inc   | www.infowest.com
Vice President | 435-674-0165 x 2010 | facebook.com/infowest
 
 



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[WISPA] FW: [Motorola II] RE: [WISPA Members] [IMPORTANCE LEVEL: HIGH] TV Whitespaces Support Letter Template

2010-09-13 Thread Rick Harnish
 

 

From: Rick Harnish [mailto:rharn...@wispa.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 5:53 PM
To: 'motor...@afmug.com'
Subject: RE: [Motorola II] RE: [WISPA Members] [IMPORTANCE LEVEL: HIGH] TV
Whitespaces Support Letter Template

 

Adam,

 

Steve Coran said we should use Ex Parte for the filing type.  You do not
need a filing number.  However, use proceeding 04-186 and 02-380 for the
proceeding numbers.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

From: motor...@afmug.com [mailto:motor...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam
Brodel
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 5:48 PM
To: motor...@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [Motorola II] RE: [WISPA Members] [IMPORTANCE LEVEL: HIGH] TV
Whitespaces Support Letter Template

 

I assume the type of filing is COMMENT.

Do we need a filing number?

Adam

 

From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf
Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:13 PM
To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List'; motor...@afmug.com
Subject: [WISPA Members] [IMPORTANCE LEVEL: HIGH] TV Whitespaces Support
Letter Template
Importance: High

 

 

UPDATE:  WISP Filing updates are beginning to show up in the FCC database.
Good job and thank you to those who have filed.  Go to
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment_search/input?z=vd7pb and search for
04-186 to read other WISP comments.  More importantly, get your comments
filed pronto.  The deadline is September 16, 2010.  We need a good showing
from the WISP industry to substantiate the importance of our industry in the
decision making process.  This is not about WISPA, it is about your future
and the WISP industry.

 

All WISPs,

 

This week, WISPA filed comments on the TV Whitespaces once again.  The FCC
is set to make decisions on this crucial topic very soon.  It is imperative
for all operators to take a few minutes and file individual comments to the
FCC about Unlicensed use of the TV Whitespaces spectrum this week.  Please
don't procrastinate as the timeline is fairly short.

 

I have attached a template support letter that Jack Unger has written to
make your support and comment filing easier.  Jack, Steve Coran and the FCC
committee has worked hard for several years and especially in our recent
filing.  We need to support their hard work efforts and produce a mass
support campaign to give the WISPA filing even more credibility.  WISPs need
more spectrum and we need spectrum that will penetrate foliage and other
obstacles.  This is our opportunity and essentially our obligation to stand
up for our needs before this crucial decision is made.  The WISPA filing can
be read at  http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7020911589
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7020911589.  

 

Please customize the attached template letter with your company information
and if you want to add additional local flavor, it is accepted.  The FCC
staff will read each letter and register the support for the WISPA filing to
assist them in making this tough decision.  We have received excellent
comments back from the FCC, other trade associations and manufacturers about
this filing and now our membership and industry participants need to stand
up and be counted as well.

 

Once you have customized the letter, please make a .pdf copy or a .doc file
and upload it at the following website.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/upload/display?z=rhroc.  If you choose not to
use the WISPA template letter but want to write your own comments, you can
either follow the previous procedure or use the Express filing method at
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/upload/display?z=nc5cd.  The proceeding number
is 04-186.

 

I cannot stress how important this is for each WISP company to do.  I hope
to search the filings Monday morning and find 1000 or more new comments
supporting the WISPA filing.  Take the time and git r dun before your busy
work schedule begins again Monday morning.

 

Respectfully,

 

Rick Harnish

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org

 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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[WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Nick White
  Hi All,
I've got a small town that is literally a 1 mile x 1 mile square. I have 
two towers, one is North, 10 miles from the town, the other is East, 11 
miles from the town. This town is heavily covered by trees. Most 
customers thus far have no LOS to either tower, or are skimming the 
tops/sides of trees. Fortunately I'm still able to pull off signals in 
the -62 to -80 RX range, using a NBM2 or NSM2 for CPE and Rocket M2 for 
AP. My RX signals at the AP are -69 to -84.

I have the possibility to put repeater APs on a radio station tower that 
is about 2 blocks from the middle of town - approximately 50' off the 
ground. From this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles 
away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will 
likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg 
sectors.

Noise levels vary, but there is DSL in town, so a lot of people have 
wireless APs in-house. My worst noise level on a customer is -83, but 
they're using a NSM2 instead of NBM2. The customers with NBM2 are 
typically -100 to -104 noise.

Right now I'm just looking for other's input on these kinds of repeater 
situations? Experience with trees? What signal levels through trees, 
under 1 mile distance? How about 5.8Ghz or 3.65Ghz? How about CCQ with 
trees? I would like to ultimately be able to provide 10+Mbps burstable 
service, as there is DSL in this town.






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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Glenn Kelley
3.65 is limited in that you can only go as high as 99 feet I believe - someone 
will correct me if I am wrong. 
If you are using airmax - 2.4 should help 

5ghz you may have some issues w/ trees however 

My suggestion is a mix - I noticed that you have not mentioned 900mhz 
900 and trees especially at that distance - sub 1 mile is awesome - but doubt 
you will see the 10mbps speeds you wish. 

5ghz is your best choice - if you can use it. 

setting up both 2.4 and 5ghz sectors may help - double the cost - but in the 
end - would allow you the most flexibility 


On Sep 13, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Nick White wrote:

 om this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles 
 away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will 
 likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg 
 sectors.

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Josh Luthman
900 won't do 10 megs.

Get on the tower with a Ubiquiti and the dual pol panels (powerbridge?) and
put up an omni or sector with 2.4 or 5.  Depending on terrain all subs under
a mile should be fine.

On Sep 13, 2010 6:58 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote:

3.65 is limited in that you can only go as high as 99 feet I believe -
someone will correct me if I am wrong.
If you are using airmax - 2.4 should help

5ghz you may have some issues w/ trees however

My suggestion is a mix - I noticed that you have not mentioned 900mhz
900 and trees especially at that distance - sub 1 mile is awesome - but
doubt you will see the 10mbps speeds you wish.

5ghz is your best choice - if you can use it.

setting up both 2.4 and 5ghz sectors may help - double the cost - but in the
end - would allow you the most flexibility


On Sep 13, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Nick White wrote:

 om this tower, no one in town would be more than 
_
*Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com *
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.





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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Greg Ihnen
Would this be a good application for a mesh network? The towers feeding the 
town from both sides, and a mesh through out town?

Greg

On Sep 13, 2010, at 5:50 PM, Nick White wrote:

  Hi All,
 I've got a small town that is literally a 1 mile x 1 mile square. I have 
 two towers, one is North, 10 miles from the town, the other is East, 11 
 miles from the town. This town is heavily covered by trees. Most 
 customers thus far have no LOS to either tower, or are skimming the 
 tops/sides of trees. Fortunately I'm still able to pull off signals in 
 the -62 to -80 RX range, using a NBM2 or NSM2 for CPE and Rocket M2 for 
 AP. My RX signals at the AP are -69 to -84.
 
 I have the possibility to put repeater APs on a radio station tower that 
 is about 2 blocks from the middle of town - approximately 50' off the 
 ground. From this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles 
 away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will 
 likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg 
 sectors.
 
 Noise levels vary, but there is DSL in town, so a lot of people have 
 wireless APs in-house. My worst noise level on a customer is -83, but 
 they're using a NSM2 instead of NBM2. The customers with NBM2 are 
 typically -100 to -104 noise.
 
 Right now I'm just looking for other's input on these kinds of repeater 
 situations? Experience with trees? What signal levels through trees, 
 under 1 mile distance? How about 5.8Ghz or 3.65Ghz? How about CCQ with 
 trees? I would like to ultimately be able to provide 10+Mbps burstable 
 service, as there is DSL in this town.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread j2840fl
I use it for all,they always exceed the contracted rates,no complaint from any!
Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 12:32:25 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test




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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Glenn Kelley
I have not seen mesh done on the cheap however 
but open to some ideas for sure

On Sep 13, 2010, at 7:02 PM, Greg Ihnen wrote:

 Would this be a good application for a mesh network? The towers feeding the 
 town from both sides, and a mesh through out town?
 
 Greg
 
 On Sep 13, 2010, at 5:50 PM, Nick White wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 I've got a small town that is literally a 1 mile x 1 mile square. I have 
 two towers, one is North, 10 miles from the town, the other is East, 11 
 miles from the town. This town is heavily covered by trees. Most 
 customers thus far have no LOS to either tower, or are skimming the 
 tops/sides of trees. Fortunately I'm still able to pull off signals in 
 the -62 to -80 RX range, using a NBM2 or NSM2 for CPE and Rocket M2 for 
 AP. My RX signals at the AP are -69 to -84.
 
 I have the possibility to put repeater APs on a radio station tower that 
 is about 2 blocks from the middle of town - approximately 50' off the 
 ground. From this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles 
 away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will 
 likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg 
 sectors.
 
 Noise levels vary, but there is DSL in town, so a lot of people have 
 wireless APs in-house. My worst noise level on a customer is -83, but 
 they're using a NSM2 instead of NBM2. The customers with NBM2 are 
 typically -100 to -104 noise.
 
 Right now I'm just looking for other's input on these kinds of repeater 
 situations? Experience with trees? What signal levels through trees, 
 under 1 mile distance? How about 5.8Ghz or 3.65Ghz? How about CCQ with 
 trees? I would like to ultimately be able to provide 10+Mbps burstable 
 service, as there is DSL in this town.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Philip Dorr
how about Ubiquti with Openmesh

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote:
 I have not seen mesh done on the cheap however
 but open to some ideas for sure
 On Sep 13, 2010, at 7:02 PM, Greg Ihnen wrote:

 Would this be a good application for a mesh network? The towers feeding the
 town from both sides, and a mesh through out town?

 Greg

 On Sep 13, 2010, at 5:50 PM, Nick White wrote:

 Hi All,

 I've got a small town that is literally a 1 mile x 1 mile square. I have

 two towers, one is North, 10 miles from the town, the other is East, 11

 miles from the town. This town is heavily covered by trees. Most

 customers thus far have no LOS to either tower, or are skimming the

 tops/sides of trees. Fortunately I'm still able to pull off signals in

 the -62 to -80 RX range, using a NBM2 or NSM2 for CPE and Rocket M2 for

 AP. My RX signals at the AP are -69 to -84.

 I have the possibility to put repeater APs on a radio station tower that

 is about 2 blocks from the middle of town - approximately 50' off the

 ground. From this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles

 away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will

 likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg

 sectors.

 Noise levels vary, but there is DSL in town, so a lot of people have

 wireless APs in-house. My worst noise level on a customer is -83, but

 they're using a NSM2 instead of NBM2. The customers with NBM2 are

 typically -100 to -104 noise.

 Right now I'm just looking for other's input on these kinds of repeater

 situations? Experience with trees? What signal levels through trees,

 under 1 mile distance? How about 5.8Ghz or 3.65Ghz? How about CCQ with

 trees? I would like to ultimately be able to provide 10+Mbps burstable

 service, as there is DSL in this town.





 

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 _
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   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.



 
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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Glenn Kelley
Is there a way to do openmesh without having to give them revenue?


On Sep 13, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Philip Dorr wrote:

 how about Ubiquti with Openmesh

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Jeromie Reeves
I have a 'town' I have setup like that (just a large group of towns,
they call it a village). A couple PowerStation2's fed from 5ghz covers
it well. I also made a few key locations AP's. I take the clients AP's
and make them switchs, disabling the wifi. Then add a name on my units
for them to use. this helps reduce interference. When i do need to
leave AP's I take control of them, turn the power down, etc. If they
have not the option then I replace them. I maintain control of every
device short of the end user pc/laptop.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Nick White nwt...@tele-net.net wrote:
  Hi All,
 I've got a small town that is literally a 1 mile x 1 mile square. I have
 two towers, one is North, 10 miles from the town, the other is East, 11
 miles from the town. This town is heavily covered by trees. Most
 customers thus far have no LOS to either tower, or are skimming the
 tops/sides of trees. Fortunately I'm still able to pull off signals in
 the -62 to -80 RX range, using a NBM2 or NSM2 for CPE and Rocket M2 for
 AP. My RX signals at the AP are -69 to -84.

 I have the possibility to put repeater APs on a radio station tower that
 is about 2 blocks from the middle of town - approximately 50' off the
 ground. From this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles
 away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will
 likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg
 sectors.

 Noise levels vary, but there is DSL in town, so a lot of people have
 wireless APs in-house. My worst noise level on a customer is -83, but
 they're using a NSM2 instead of NBM2. The customers with NBM2 are
 typically -100 to -104 noise.

 Right now I'm just looking for other's input on these kinds of repeater
 situations? Experience with trees? What signal levels through trees,
 under 1 mile distance? How about 5.8Ghz or 3.65Ghz? How about CCQ with
 trees? I would like to ultimately be able to provide 10+Mbps burstable
 service, as there is DSL in this town.





 
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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Nick White
 I have another town where we are on a hilltop right in the middle of 
town, the hilltop is about 600-700 feet above the town. All four APs on 
this are 5.8Ghz. I have one customer shooting straight through a tree, 
he's about a quarter mile from the AP, and he's got a -58 signal on a 
Nanostation M5. I can pump 40 Mbps to his radio no problem.


I know 2.4 usually has better tree penetration, but in the case of this 
new town, we're potentially going up to a mile, probably twice as many 
trees, and less elevation.


The other alternative is simply pick and choose our customers.

As far as doing a mesh, I thought about doing Nanostation Loco M2s with 
OLSR. I prefer to do routed mesh. But that's a lot of 2.4 spewing 
everywhere, my noise floor would be ridiculous.


Currently have 2.4 and 5.8 APs on the two distant towers. 5.8 seems way 
more solid, but at 10+ miles, even tops of trees seemed to kill the signal.



On 9/13/2010 3:58 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:
3.65 is limited in that you can only go as high as 99 feet I believe - 
someone will correct me if I am wrong.

If you are using airmax - 2.4 should help

5ghz you may have some issues w/ trees however

My suggestion is a mix - I noticed that you have not mentioned 900mhz
900 and trees especially at that distance - sub 1 mile is awesome - 
but doubt you will see the 10mbps speeds you wish.


5ghz is your best choice - if you can use it.

setting up both 2.4 and 5ghz sectors may help - double the cost - but 
in the end - would allow you the most flexibility



On Sep 13, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Nick White wrote:


om this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles
away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will
likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg
sectors.


_
*Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com *
Email: gl...@hostmedic.com mailto:gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.





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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Jeremie Chism
I am unaware of the 99 limit. I actually have a set at 185 ft. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 13, 2010, at 5:58 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote:

 3.65 is limited in that you can only go as high as 99 feet I believe - 
 someone will correct me if I am wrong. 
 If you are using airmax - 2.4 should help 
 
 5ghz you may have some issues w/ trees however 
 
 My suggestion is a mix - I noticed that you have not mentioned 900mhz 
 900 and trees especially at that distance - sub 1 mile is awesome - but doubt 
 you will see the 10mbps speeds you wish. 
 
 5ghz is your best choice - if you can use it. 
 
 setting up both 2.4 and 5ghz sectors may help - double the cost - but in the 
 end - would allow you the most flexibility 
 
 
 On Sep 13, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Nick White wrote:
 
 om this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles 
 away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will 
 likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg 
 sectors.
 
 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Glenn Kelley
I can ask our licensing guy - he had seemed for some reason to think this was 
the rule. 

Thanks for the heads up.. worth asking again @ least. 
I have a location I can use it now - (to get to my own home) - we are looking @ 
290 foot - or want to @ least 


Thanks 


On Sep 13, 2010, at 8:01 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:

 I am unaware of the 99 limit. I actually have a set at 185 ft. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 13, 2010, at 5:58 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote:
 
 3.65 is limited in that you can only go as high as 99 feet I believe - 
 someone will correct me if I am wrong. 
 If you are using airmax - 2.4 should help 
 
 5ghz you may have some issues w/ trees however 
 
 My suggestion is a mix - I noticed that you have not mentioned 900mhz 
 900 and trees especially at that distance - sub 1 mile is awesome - but 
 doubt you will see the 10mbps speeds you wish. 
 
 5ghz is your best choice - if you can use it. 
 
 setting up both 2.4 and 5ghz sectors may help - double the cost - but in the 
 end - would allow you the most flexibility 
 
 
 On Sep 13, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Nick White wrote:
 
 om this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles 
 away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will 
 likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg 
 sectors.
 
 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 
 
 
 
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  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Correction, large group of houses.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Jeromie Reeves jree...@18-30chat.net wrote:
 I have a 'town' I have setup like that (just a large group of towns,
 they call it a village). A couple PowerStation2's fed from 5ghz covers
 it well. I also made a few key locations AP's. I take the clients AP's
 and make them switchs, disabling the wifi. Then add a name on my units
 for them to use. this helps reduce interference. When i do need to
 leave AP's I take control of them, turn the power down, etc. If they
 have not the option then I replace them. I maintain control of every
 device short of the end user pc/laptop.

 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Nick White nwt...@tele-net.net wrote:
  Hi All,
 I've got a small town that is literally a 1 mile x 1 mile square. I have
 two towers, one is North, 10 miles from the town, the other is East, 11
 miles from the town. This town is heavily covered by trees. Most
 customers thus far have no LOS to either tower, or are skimming the
 tops/sides of trees. Fortunately I'm still able to pull off signals in
 the -62 to -80 RX range, using a NBM2 or NSM2 for CPE and Rocket M2 for
 AP. My RX signals at the AP are -69 to -84.

 I have the possibility to put repeater APs on a radio station tower that
 is about 2 blocks from the middle of town - approximately 50' off the
 ground. From this tower, no one in town would be more than .75 miles
 away. I'm thinking 10Mhz channels - 1, 6, 11. If we do this, I will
 likely use the UBNT shields that I've seen for sale with three 120deg
 sectors.

 Noise levels vary, but there is DSL in town, so a lot of people have
 wireless APs in-house. My worst noise level on a customer is -83, but
 they're using a NSM2 instead of NBM2. The customers with NBM2 are
 typically -100 to -104 noise.

 Right now I'm just looking for other's input on these kinds of repeater
 situations? Experience with trees? What signal levels through trees,
 under 1 mile distance? How about 5.8Ghz or 3.65Ghz? How about CCQ with
 trees? I would like to ultimately be able to provide 10+Mbps burstable
 service, as there is DSL in this town.





 
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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Fred Goldstein
At 9/13/2010 07:02 PM, you wrote:

900 won't do 10 megs.

The new Ubiquiti M-series Airmax 900 MHz radios should do it.  MCS10 
in a 5 MHz quarter-channel is around 10 Mbps.  A lower-loss path 
could allow MCS11 or MCS12.  While you can't synchronize sectors, 
they look like they will outperform Canopy at a fraction of the 
price.  Maybe they'll even ship this year. ;-)

As to mesh, MT has HWMP+ as a layer 2 meshing protocol.  It looks 
promising, though there has apparently been very little use of it in 
this hemisphere. But them I'm planning to do everything at layer 2, 
trying to build a switched network if I can (vs. 
bridged).  BATMAN-Adv does a layer 2 mesh too, your basic open source 
code.  I don't know anyone using that one either.  This type of 
meshing is basically like routing, just operating below IP so it 
treats IP (or other protocols, hint hint) as payload and doesn't try 
to deal with IP addresses.

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
But then  I'm pinging within network and that tells me nothing.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:08 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 

Bob - your using time warners bandwidth - 

simply use theirs - your ip ranges are theirs anyhow - 

 

best results - as I have found :-)

 

On Sep 12, 2010, at 11:03 PM, Robert West wrote:





I use Speedtest.Net for my own tests to verify my CPE settings.  Yeah,
sometimes it sucks but I have to change to a better server normally and I
tell the customer the same thing.  Right now we are defaulted to some B.S.
speed test server with a 73ms ping time!  WTF!73MS???!!!

 

Flippin' stupid!

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 7:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] speed test

 

OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to
speedtest.net and dslreports.com - the question is: what do you do? I've
never really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing
the load and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I
get these people who think they're not getting what they pay for :(

-RickG





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  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com

Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

 




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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Advanced tab.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 4:25 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 

Bob, How do you do burst at 2x the contracted speed on UBNT? AFAIK, the
burst is in bytes transfered, not bits per second.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
wrote:

I do bursting too. 2x the contracted speed.  Makes a big WOW response with
web pages and had made ZERO impact on my network!

 

Makes me rethink NOT charging a fee for bursting!

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Bailey
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:10 PM


To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 


turn on bursting?works awesome,they don't wanna tell you the results because
they think they are getting way more than they should.



--- On Sun, 9/12/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:


From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
Subject: [WISPA] speed test
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 7:29 PM

OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to
speedtest.net http://speedtest.net/  and dslreports.com
http://dslreports.com/  - the question is: what do you do? I've never
really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing the load
and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I get
these people who think they're not getting what they pay for :( 

-RickG


-Inline Attachment Follows-





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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
I just wish that UBNT would have a burst TIME limit like Mikrotik does.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of j284...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 7:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

Dave,I'm fairly sure moto let's you set the burst on the sm,same place you
set the ul/dl speeds.
Sent from my BlackBerryR

-Original Message-
From: David Williamson dwilliam...@customcomputersva.com
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:35:23 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test





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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Yep.

 

Was playing with that today, actually.  

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:05 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 

Mikrotik routers would handle all of this.  If I'd done it, I'd tell you
how.





 
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
 


On 9/13/2010 3:24 AM, RickG wrote: 

Bob, How do you do burst at 2x the contracted speed on UBNT? AFAIK, the
burst is in bytes transfered, not bits per second.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
wrote:

I do bursting too. 2x the contracted speed.  Makes a big WOW response with
web pages and had made ZERO impact on my network!

 

Makes me rethink NOT charging a fee for bursting!

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Bailey
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:10 PM


To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 


turn on bursting?works awesome,they don't wanna tell you the results because
they think they are getting way more than they should.



--- On Sun, 9/12/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:


From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
Subject: [WISPA] speed test
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 7:29 PM

OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to
speedtest.net http://speedtest.net/  and dslreports.com
http://dslreports.com/  - the question is: what do you do? I've never
really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing the load
and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I get
these people who think they're not getting what they pay for :( 

-RickG


-Inline Attachment Follows-





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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
I've now been defaulted to PIKETON!Piketon is in the middle of nowhere
and is a defunct nuclear plutonium enrichment facility for the US
government.  MIDDLE OF THE STICKS!

 

HA!

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Nick Olsen
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 9:06 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 

Its worse then that here. Were 6ms off the local speedtest server. And it
still gives us crap.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations 

(877) 804-3001  x106

 

  _  

From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:03 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

Ironton!  For me Ironton SUCKS!  Ping 108ms!!!

 

Why in the hell are they defaulting g you to arm pit Ironton?

 

Been there  that place sucks!

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 7:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 

My fiver is through TW. They insist I use the Ironton server which, IMO
always provides an accurate result. The issue is these people dont believe
it and want to see their speed results elsewhere :(

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
wrote:

Speed test mini just after your upstream pipe.

On Sep 12, 2010 7:29 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to
speedtest.net and dslreports.com - the question is: what do you do? I've
never really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing
the load and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I
get these people who think they're not getting what they pay for :(

-RickG

 



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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Jeromie Reeves
With the low cost of Ubnt gear, why not run real relays? The area is
small enough to not need a unreasonable amount of relays.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:
 At 9/13/2010 07:02 PM, you wrote:

900 won't do 10 megs.

 The new Ubiquiti M-series Airmax 900 MHz radios should do it.  MCS10
 in a 5 MHz quarter-channel is around 10 Mbps.  A lower-loss path
 could allow MCS11 or MCS12.  While you can't synchronize sectors,
 they look like they will outperform Canopy at a fraction of the
 price.  Maybe they'll even ship this year. ;-)

 As to mesh, MT has HWMP+ as a layer 2 meshing protocol.  It looks
 promising, though there has apparently been very little use of it in
 this hemisphere. But them I'm planning to do everything at layer 2,
 trying to build a switched network if I can (vs.
 bridged).  BATMAN-Adv does a layer 2 mesh too, your basic open source
 code.  I don't know anyone using that one either.  This type of
 meshing is basically like routing, just operating below IP so it
 treats IP (or other protocols, hint hint) as payload and doesn't try
 to deal with IP addresses.

  --
  Fred Goldstein    k1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting              http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701



 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Works fine.  I’m now 99.999% UBNT!

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Steve Barnes
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

 

All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a AP 
with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.  They are 
all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to contractual 
issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering taking down the 
Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 
sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT 
Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow flies.  

 

Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till everyone 
is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you get it on?

 

Steve Barnes

RC-WiFi W http://www.rcwifi.com/ ireless Internet Service




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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Bursting rocks!  But do it on the CPE and CHARGE for it if you can.  Heck, 5
bucks extra?  Could be a profit center.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 

I didnt catch that part from Bob but thats what I'm thinking. So, I'll add
bursting to my RB1000. But not sure what config allows bursting for all
customers.

BTW: I did add bursting (in bytes transferred) to the complaining customers
UBNT and he says it is fixed!

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Jerry Richardson
jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote:

You need a router or bandwidth shaper that limits the burst rate
independently of the SM.


Jerry Richardson

Sent Mobile


On Sep 13, 2010, at 1:25 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

Bob, How do you do burst at 2x the contracted speed on UBNT? AFAIK, the
burst is in bytes transfered, not bits per second.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
wrote:

I do bursting too. 2x the contracted speed.  Makes a big WOW response with
web pages and had made ZERO impact on my network!

 

Makes me rethink NOT charging a fee for bursting!

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Bailey
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:10 PM


To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 


turn on bursting?works awesome,they don't wanna tell you the results because
they think they are getting way more than they should.



--- On Sun, 9/12/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:


From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
Subject: [WISPA] speed test
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 7:29 PM

OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to
speedtest.net and dslreports.com - the question is: what do you do? I've
never really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing
the load and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I
get these people who think they're not getting what they pay for :( 

-RickG


-Inline Attachment Follows-





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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Fred Goldstein
At 9/13/2010 09:23 PM, you wrote:
With the low cost of Ubnt gear, why not run real relays? The area is
small enough to not need a unreasonable amount of relays.

What do you mean by real relays?  A mesh or routed network or 
whatever you want to call it is a set of relays.  I may be missing 
out on what you mean by the term, though; I use it generically.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:
  At 9/13/2010 07:02 PM, you wrote:
 
 900 won't do 10 megs.
 
  The new Ubiquiti M-series Airmax 900 MHz radios should do it.  MCS10
  in a 5 MHz quarter-channel is around 10 Mbps.  A lower-loss path
  could allow MCS11 or MCS12.  While you can't synchronize sectors,
  they look like they will outperform Canopy at a fraction of the
  price.  Maybe they'll even ship this year. ;-)
 
  As to mesh, MT has HWMP+ as a layer 2 meshing protocol.  It looks
  promising, though there has apparently been very little use of it in
  this hemisphere. But them I'm planning to do everything at layer 2,
  trying to build a switched network if I can (vs.
  bridged).  BATMAN-Adv does a layer 2 mesh too, your basic open source
  code.  I don't know anyone using that one either.  This type of
  meshing is basically like routing, just operating below IP so it
  treats IP (or other protocols, hint hint) as payload and doesn't try
  to deal with IP addresses.
 

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Greg Ihnen
Backhauls?

Greg

On Sep 13, 2010, at 9:16 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:

 At 9/13/2010 09:23 PM, you wrote:
 With the low cost of Ubnt gear, why not run real relays? The area is
 small enough to not need a unreasonable amount of relays.
 
 What do you mean by real relays?  A mesh or routed network or 
 whatever you want to call it is a set of relays.  I may be missing 
 out on what you mean by the term, though; I use it generically.
 
 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com 
 wrote:
 At 9/13/2010 07:02 PM, you wrote:
 
 900 won't do 10 megs.
 
 The new Ubiquiti M-series Airmax 900 MHz radios should do it.  MCS10
 in a 5 MHz quarter-channel is around 10 Mbps.  A lower-loss path
 could allow MCS11 or MCS12.  While you can't synchronize sectors,
 they look like they will outperform Canopy at a fraction of the
 price.  Maybe they'll even ship this year. ;-)
 
 As to mesh, MT has HWMP+ as a layer 2 meshing protocol.  It looks
 promising, though there has apparently been very little use of it in
 this hemisphere. But them I'm planning to do everything at layer 2,
 trying to build a switched network if I can (vs.
 bridged).  BATMAN-Adv does a layer 2 mesh too, your basic open source
 code.  I don't know anyone using that one either.  This type of
 meshing is basically like routing, just operating below IP so it
 treats IP (or other protocols, hint hint) as payload and doesn't try
 to deal with IP addresses.
 
 
  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 
 
 
 
 
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[WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
I know you got 'em.

 

I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20 structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980's tower.  300 footer.  I'm the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.

 

I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*

 

Bob-

 

 




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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
Steve,

After several firmware updates and configurations, I finally have the warm
 fuzzies about my RocketM5 sectors. These 4 sectors are on my main tower
and are backhauls for my whole network!  I have not had time to work with my
2.4 sectors since the last go around was a flop. After upgrading all clients
on one AP over to M radios, I turned on Airmax and things feel much better.
YMMV.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
 get it on?



 *Steve Barnes*

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/




 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
Did you do that in your firewall, the ap, or both?

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Bret Clark bcl...@spectraaccess.comwrote:

 We enabled WMM on our Mikrotik's and then just added a Mangle rule to
 ensure the DSCP was marked correctly, this solved VoIP issues for our
 users.


 On 09/13/2010 02:20 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
  I see, you're talking about quality not raw speeds - you said
  complaints about slowdowns.  I would say TDMA would be the best bet
  to solve this problem cost effectively.
 
  If you half the channel size, half the number of clients.  Not the
  other way around.
 
 
  Can the UBNT co-exist
 
  Contract issues says he can only replace the radio, not add more
 equipment.
 
  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
  On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:17 PM, John Vogeljvo...@vogent.net  wrote:
 
  Can the UBNT co-exist with MT APs in the same environment or will the
 UBNT
  wipe out all other 802.11x based APs on nearby channels within hearing
  distance?
 
  On 9/13/2010 1:10 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:
 
   From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very happy
 when
  you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik BH/AP units, pings
 went
  from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to a steady 15ms no matter what
  time.  Just be ready for three things, you can't put usernames in the
 ACL
  like Mikrotik, there is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to
 be
  done in your router before their equipment, and it will never go down
  because it's just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have
  overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the LAN port won't happen on
  Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found that if you use dual-polarity
 you
  can't mix that with non-dual and connections with non-, its far better
 to
  have all Airmax running rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so
 that
  all customers on that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to
  UBNT's low cost) but worth it.
 
  Forbes Mercy
  Washington Broadband
 
  On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
 
  All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I
 have a
  AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
  contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
  taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT
 Rocket
  and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
  clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done
 before
  the snow flies.
 
 
 
  Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
  everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till
 you
  get it on?
 
 
 
  Steve Barnes
 
  RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Yo, dude!  Sectors acting as backhaul?   Now I LIKE that idea!

 

I shall steal it from you and make it my own.

 

Nuff said.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 10:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

 

Steve,

 

After several firmware updates and configurations, I finally have the warm
 fuzzies about my RocketM5 sectors. These 4 sectors are on my main tower
and are backhauls for my whole network!  I have not had time to work with my
2.4 sectors since the last go around was a flop. After upgrading all clients
on one AP over to M radios, I turned on Airmax and things feel much better.
YMMV. 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
the snow flies.  

 

Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
get it on?

 

Steve Barnes

RC-WiFi W http://www.rcwifi.com/ ireless Internet Service






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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
From what I can tell, any legacy radio, including UBNT's own do not get
along with M AP's. I've had issues and have been switching out M AP's
for standard UBNT units on my repeaters to resolve the problem. Once I have
client base switched out to M units, I'll switch back to M AP's. MM's -
do you like plain or peanut? :)

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com wrote:

 In my experience Tranzeo and UBNT don't play nice together.  If you
 don't mind switching out your tranzeo CPE's with UBNT gear you'll be fine.


 Steve Barnes wrote:
 
  All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I
  have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about
  slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a
  tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.
  So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and
  putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to
  physically switch all my clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but
  would like to get it done before the snow flies.
 
 
 
  Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
  everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine
  till you get it on?
 
 
 
  *Steve Barnes*
 
  RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Sorry, when ever people talk about mesh they most often mean 1 radio
meshing. Multiradio relays generally do not benefit from most of the
mesh software. OSPF or rSTP works very well and are generally stable
and are generally supported and have many tools. I keep everything off
the radio I possibly can and use them as bridges with a router behind
them. With Mt having $40 units that is even easier and faster then
ever.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:
 At 9/13/2010 09:23 PM, you wrote:
With the low cost of Ubnt gear, why not run real relays? The area is
small enough to not need a unreasonable amount of relays.

 What do you mean by real relays?  A mesh or routed network or
 whatever you want to call it is a set of relays.  I may be missing
 out on what you mean by the term, though; I use it generically.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:
  At 9/13/2010 07:02 PM, you wrote:
 
 900 won't do 10 megs.
 
  The new Ubiquiti M-series Airmax 900 MHz radios should do it.  MCS10
  in a 5 MHz quarter-channel is around 10 Mbps.  A lower-loss path
  could allow MCS11 or MCS12.  While you can't synchronize sectors,
  they look like they will outperform Canopy at a fraction of the
  price.  Maybe they'll even ship this year. ;-)
 
  As to mesh, MT has HWMP+ as a layer 2 meshing protocol.  It looks
  promising, though there has apparently been very little use of it in
  this hemisphere. But them I'm planning to do everything at layer 2,
  trying to build a switched network if I can (vs.
  bridged).  BATMAN-Adv does a layer 2 mesh too, your basic open source
  code.  I don't know anyone using that one either.  This type of
  meshing is basically like routing, just operating below IP so it
  treats IP (or other protocols, hint hint) as payload and doesn't try
  to deal with IP addresses.
 

  --
  Fred Goldstein    k1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting              http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701



 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
Whats the .001 unit?

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

 Works fine.  I’m now 99.999% UBNT!







 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *Steve Barnes
 *Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 1:32 PM
 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* [WISPA] Taking the plunge



 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
 get it on?



 *Steve Barnes*

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/




 
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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
I currently let the SM do both. I swap back  forth on what to let the SM do
and what to have the firewall do.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Jerry Richardson
jrichard...@aircloud.comwrote:

 All you need to do is cap the max data rate. Let the sm handle bursting.


 Jerry Richardson
 Sent Mobile

 On Sep 13, 2010, at 9:32 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

 I didnt catch that part from Bob but thats what I'm thinking. So, I'll add
 bursting to my RB1000. But not sure what config allows bursting for all
 customers.
 BTW: I did add bursting (in bytes transferred) to the complaining customers
 UBNT and he says it is fixed!

 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com
 jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote:

 You need a router or bandwidth shaper that limits the burst rate
 independently of the SM.

 Jerry Richardson
 Sent Mobile

 On Sep 13, 2010, at 1:25 AM, RickG  rgunder...@gmail.com
 rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

 Bob, How do you do burst at 2x the contracted speed on UBNT? AFAIK, the
 burst is in bytes transfered, not bits per second.

 On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Robert West 
 robert.w...@just-micro.comrobert.w...@just-micro.com
 robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote:

 I do bursting too. 2x the contracted speed.  Makes a big WOW response
 with web pages and had made ZERO impact on my network!



 Makes me rethink NOT charging a fee for bursting!



 Bob-







 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: 
 wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org
 wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Bailey
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:10 PM

 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] speed test



 turn on bursting?works awesome,they don't wanna tell you the results
 because they think they are getting way more than they should.


 --- On *Sun, 9/12/10, RickG  rgunder...@gmail.comrgunder...@gmail.com
 rgunder...@gmail.com* wrote:


 From: RickG  rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com
 rgunder...@gmail.com
 Subject: [WISPA] speed test
 To: WISPA General List  wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org
 wireless@wispa.org
 Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 7:29 PM

 OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to
 http://speedtest.net/ http://speedtest.netspeedtest.net and
 http://dslreports.com/ http://dslreports.comdslreports.com - the
 question is: what do you do? I've never really had good results with off net
 speed tests even when removing the load and running directly t from my
 laptop to my fiber connection. But I get these people who think they're not
 getting what they pay for :(

 -RickG


 -Inline Attachment Follows-




 
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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
I get it now. Missing a lot of sleep lately. So, how many bytes do you allow
the bursting for?

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:17 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

 Advanced tab.







 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *RickG
 *Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 4:25 AM

 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] speed test



 Bob, How do you do burst at 2x the contracted speed on UBNT? AFAIK, the
 burst is in bytes transfered, not bits per second.

 On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
 wrote:

 I do bursting too. 2x the contracted speed.  Makes a big WOW response with
 web pages and had made ZERO impact on my network!



 Makes me rethink NOT charging a fee for bursting!



 Bob-







 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *Jason Bailey
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:10 PM


 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] speed test



 turn on bursting?works awesome,they don't wanna tell you the results
 because they think they are getting way more than they should.



 --- On *Sun, 9/12/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com* wrote:


 From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
 Subject: [WISPA] speed test
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010, 7:29 PM

 OK for all your speed hungry customers that want to run speed tests to
 speedtest.net and dslreports.com - the question is: what do you do? I've
 never really had good results with off net speed tests even when removing
 the load and running directly t from my laptop to my fiber connection. But I
 get these people who think they're not getting what they pay for :(

 -RickG


 -Inline Attachment Follows-




 
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Re: [WISPA] speed test

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
Ditto.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

 I just wish that UBNT would have a burst TIME limit like Mikrotik does.



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of j284...@yahoo.com
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 7:14 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test

 Dave,I'm fairly sure moto let's you set the burst on the sm,same place you
 set the ul/dl speeds.
 Sent from my BlackBerryR

 -Original Message-
 From: David Williamson dwilliam...@customcomputersva.com
 Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:35:23
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] speed test




 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-13 Thread Justin Wilson
Lots of pics on our blog at: http://www.mtin.net/blog .  Tagged under
tower and install.

Also have a gallery under Facebook.

Hit me offline for more.
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 22:36:22 -0400
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

I know you got Œem.
 
I¹m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20² structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980¹s tower.  300 footer.  I¹m the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.
 
I¹d say pretty please but I¹m not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*
 
Bob-
 
 






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Re: [WISPA] Trees under half mile

2010-09-13 Thread Fred Goldstein
At 9/13/2010 10:57 PM, Jeromie wrote:
Sorry, when ever people talk about mesh they most often mean 1 radio
meshing.

First-generation mesh networks with one radio were awful.  I didn't 
think that was what Greg had in mind.  Second-generation mesh 
networks separated the backhaul (meshing) from the user access, and 
worked better.  I actually like to use mesh in its original sense, to 
refer to a network with an arbitrary topology allowing multiple links 
per node.  It contrasts with star and ring.  A mesh is thus a 
redundant network.  The Internet is a mesh.  SPF is a meshing 
protocol, as is distance vector.

Multiradio relays generally do not benefit from most of the
mesh software.

Depends on the software, but you may be right with some of the 
freeware mesh software designed for home routers running DD-WRT et al.

OSPF or rSTP works very well and are generally stable
and are generally supported and have many tools.

OSPF operates in IP.  I'm trying to do everything at a lower layer 
than that.  RSTP works but is still fundamentally stupid; spanning 
tree just avoids loops, but doesn't optimize.  When the mesh gets 
complex, you want real routing capabilities.  I just have reasons to 
avoid doing this in IP.  But bridging is just a bad LAN hack too; 
it doesn't scale to the radio world.  I remember when we introduced 
Ethernet bridges at DEC, somewhere around 1985.  It sounded like a 
good idea at the time.  But a few years later, the head of network 
archicture quipped, Networks are a drug.  Bridged networks are a 
dangerous drug.  Of course that was shortly before some 
Microsoft-worshipping IT types started pushing big bridged multi-site 
LAN Manager networks...

I keep everything off
the radio I possibly can and use them as bridges with a router behind
them. With Mt having $40 units that is even easier and faster then
ever.

I agree that this is a good idea.  I am likely to do some radios as 
cards plugged into the RB, like the SR71-15s which look really 
good.  But the access points and some links will be separate, on 
Ethernet.  Besides, the Ethernet RocketM sectors look better than 
anything MT has.  The specs are pretty close but the scuttlebutt on 
the boards is that the UBNT cards outperform the R52HNs.


On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:
  At 9/13/2010 09:23 PM, you wrote:
 With the low cost of Ubnt gear, why not run real relays? The area is
 small enough to not need a unreasonable amount of relays.
 
  What do you mean by real relays?  A mesh or routed network or
  whatever you want to call it is a set of relays.  I may be missing
  out on what you mean by the term, though; I use it generically.
 
 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Fred Goldstein 
 fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote:
   At 9/13/2010 07:02 PM, you wrote:
  
  900 won't do 10 megs.
  
   The new Ubiquiti M-series Airmax 900 MHz radios should do it.  MCS10
   in a 5 MHz quarter-channel is around 10 Mbps.  A lower-loss path
   could allow MCS11 or MCS12.  While you can't synchronize sectors,
   they look like they will outperform Canopy at a fraction of the
   price.  Maybe they'll even ship this year. ;-)
  
   As to mesh, MT has HWMP+ as a layer 2 meshing protocol.  It looks
   promising, though there has apparently been very little use of it in
   this hemisphere. But them I'm planning to do everything at layer 2,
   trying to build a switched network if I can (vs.
   bridged).  BATMAN-Adv does a layer 2 mesh too, your basic open source
   code.  I don't know anyone using that one either.  This type of
   meshing is basically like routing, just operating below IP so it
   treats IP (or other protocols, hint hint) as payload and doesn't try
   to deal with IP addresses.
  

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Philip Dorr
probably a mikrotik router or two

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:58 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 Whats the .001 unit?

 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
 wrote:

 Works fine.  I’m now 99.999% UBNT!







 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Steve Barnes
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Taking the plunge



 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have
 a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
 get it on?



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Fred Goldstein
At 9/13/2010 10:43 PM, Robert West wrote:

Yo, dude!  Sectors acting as backhaul?   Now I LIKE that idea!

I shall steal it from you and make it my own.

Nuff said.

Why not?  I'm working on a design now that has 15-20 access points 
fed from a sector antenna on a tower.  (I couldn't put that many 
separate links up if I tried, not between 5.725 and 5.85.)  They'll 
need TDMA (Airmax or an Nstreme) to keep things sorted out, of 
course.  There's a string of nodes that can barely see each other for 
the trees, but can all see one tower over water... since water paths 
tend to be flakey, I'm thinking of putting two antennas on the tower, 
one above the other, hoping that the vertical spacing may have the 
two sectors (overlapping coverage, different 5.8 channels) flake out 
at different times.

The real question is whether or not I can make a case that the Sky 
Pilot Rule applies, and thus the whole sector counts as PtP for 
regulatory power limit purposes.  With TDMA it's only transmitting to 
one at a time, after all...

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
Your welcome! I put them up earlier this year. The first station was a
RocketM5 Dish, 13 miles out. Truly set it and forget it! It worked so well
that it threw me for a loop when I had issues with the 2.4 sectors. At any
rate, I've been adding UBNT M5 dishes and other M5 units as backhauls to the
rest of my towers non-stop. Cant wait til winter break!

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

 Yo, dude!  Sectors acting as backhaul?   Now I LIKE that idea!



 I shall steal it from you and make it my own.



 Nuff said.



 Bob-







 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *RickG
 *Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 10:40 PM
 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge



 Steve,



 After several firmware updates and configurations, I finally have the warm
  fuzzies about my RocketM5 sectors. These 4 sectors are on my main tower
 and are backhauls for my whole network!  I have not had time to work with my
 2.4 sectors since the last go around was a flop. After upgrading all clients
 on one AP over to M radios, I turned on Airmax and things feel much better.
 YMMV.

 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
 AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
 contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
 taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
 and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
 clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
 the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
 get it on?



 *Steve Barnes*

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/





 
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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread RickG
I know a guy in Florida who put up a PTP link for every customer! Of course,
that was from the rooftop of a high rise.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote:

 At 9/13/2010 10:43 PM, Robert West wrote:

 Yo, dude!  Sectors acting as backhaul?   Now I LIKE that idea!
 
 I shall steal it from you and make it my own.
 
 Nuff said.

 Why not?  I'm working on a design now that has 15-20 access points
 fed from a sector antenna on a tower.  (I couldn't put that many
 separate links up if I tried, not between 5.725 and 5.85.)  They'll
 need TDMA (Airmax or an Nstreme) to keep things sorted out, of
 course.  There's a string of nodes that can barely see each other for
 the trees, but can all see one tower over water... since water paths
 tend to be flakey, I'm thinking of putting two antennas on the tower,
 one above the other, hoping that the vertical spacing may have the
 two sectors (overlapping coverage, different 5.8 channels) flake out
 at different times.

 The real question is whether or not I can make a case that the Sky
 Pilot Rule applies, and thus the whole sector counts as PtP for
 regulatory power limit purposes.  With TDMA it's only transmitting to
 one at a time, after all...

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701




 
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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Nice.  Is that angle iron for the standoff?

 

 

Hopefully NOT Home Depot wire ties though.  I HATE their military rated
wire ties.  What a joke, as I've said before and not so nicely.

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 11:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 

Most of my towers are water tanks. I do have a couple of tri-legs to contend
with. I prefer stand offs. Sorry, only pic I've got.  

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
wrote:

I know you got 'em.

 

I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20 structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980's tower.  300 footer.  I'm the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.

 

I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*

 

Bob-

 

 






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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Yep.  Just one last lonely 433 board with an XR2 card.  However we DO still use 
a 600a at the shop.

BUT..!  Working on putting another 433 back into service for a 
weird install with another XR2 card and a couple of Luxul circular polarized 
antennas.  All from the Junk Pile.A private link that the 433AH would do 
nicely for and will get SOLD as a result!  Gotta love that!  (At full retail to 
boot!)

Bob-



Bob-

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Philip Dorr
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 11:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

probably a mikrotik router or two

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:58 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 Whats the .001 unit?

 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Robert West 
 robert.w...@just-micro.com
 wrote:

 Works fine.  I’m now 99.999% UBNT!







 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of Steve Barnes
 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Taking the plunge



 All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE’s are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I 
 have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about 
 slowdowns.
 They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due 
 to contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am 
 considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and 
 putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to 
 physically switch all my clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but 
 would like to get it done before the snow flies.



 Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till 
 everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine 
 till you get it on?



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Winter break?

 

That's when I spend all night up on a tower in the carharts, ski mask and
goggles...

 

No break!

 

This year I may add a flask of rum to the tool bucket.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:00 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

 

Your welcome! I put them up earlier this year. The first station was a
RocketM5 Dish, 13 miles out. Truly set it and forget it! It worked so well
that it threw me for a loop when I had issues with the 2.4 sectors. At any
rate, I've been adding UBNT M5 dishes and other M5 units as backhauls to the
rest of my towers non-stop. Cant wait til winter break! 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
wrote:

Yo, dude!  Sectors acting as backhaul?   Now I LIKE that idea!

 

I shall steal it from you and make it my own.

 

Nuff said.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 10:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

 

Steve,

 

After several firmware updates and configurations, I finally have the warm
 fuzzies about my RocketM5 sectors. These 4 sectors are on my main tower
and are backhauls for my whole network!  I have not had time to work with my
2.4 sectors since the last go around was a flop. After upgrading all clients
on one AP over to M radios, I turned on Airmax and things feel much better.
YMMV. 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.   I have a
AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints about slowdowns.
They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This is a tower that due to
contractual issues I cannot add anymore equipment.  So I am considering
taking down the Mikrotik and 120 degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket
and Airmax 120 sector.  It will take time to physically switch all my
clients to new UBNT Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before
the snow flies.  

 

Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax till
everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work fine till you
get it on?

 

Steve Barnes

RC-WiFi W http://www.rcwifi.com/ ireless Internet Service






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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Kinky.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:02 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

 

I know a guy in Florida who put up a PTP link for every customer! Of course,
that was from the rooftop of a high rise.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com
wrote:

At 9/13/2010 10:43 PM, Robert West wrote:

Yo, dude!  Sectors acting as backhaul?   Now I LIKE that idea!

I shall steal it from you and make it my own.

Nuff said.

Why not?  I'm working on a design now that has 15-20 access points
fed from a sector antenna on a tower.  (I couldn't put that many
separate links up if I tried, not between 5.725 and 5.85.)  They'll
need TDMA (Airmax or an Nstreme) to keep things sorted out, of
course.  There's a string of nodes that can barely see each other for
the trees, but can all see one tower over water... since water paths
tend to be flakey, I'm thinking of putting two antennas on the tower,
one above the other, hoping that the vertical spacing may have the
two sectors (overlapping coverage, different 5.8 channels) flake out
at different times.

The real question is whether or not I can make a case that the Sky
Pilot Rule applies, and thus the whole sector counts as PtP for
regulatory power limit purposes.  With TDMA it's only transmitting to
one at a time, after all...

 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
 ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701





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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
You be right!  I have one hub with multiple backhauls on it.  My problem was
always the sectors being 15 to 19dbi gain but the grids being a good 29.  My
furthest out is 20 miles, not good for a 15dbi sector,  but most other AP's
can see the hub's sectors at at least a -74.  In fact, I've USED them in a
pinch to work around outages, though not within FCC guide lines..
(So what)  but I never thought about just using it as part of the big
vision.  

Hm


Me-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 11:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

At 9/13/2010 10:43 PM, Robert West wrote:

Yo, dude!  Sectors acting as backhaul?   Now I LIKE that idea!

I shall steal it from you and make it my own.

Nuff said.

Why not?  I'm working on a design now that has 15-20 access points fed from
a sector antenna on a tower.  (I couldn't put that many separate links up if
I tried, not between 5.725 and 5.85.)  They'll need TDMA (Airmax or an
Nstreme) to keep things sorted out, of course.  There's a string of nodes
that can barely see each other for the trees, but can all see one tower over
water... since water paths tend to be flakey, I'm thinking of putting two
antennas on the tower, one above the other, hoping that the vertical spacing
may have the two sectors (overlapping coverage, different 5.8 channels)
flake out at different times.

The real question is whether or not I can make a case that the Sky Pilot
Rule applies, and thus the whole sector counts as PtP for regulatory power
limit purposes.  With TDMA it's only transmitting to one at a time, after
all...

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 





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