Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
+1 --Eric Roth Network Engineer Webjogger Internet Services (845) 757-4000 www.webjogger.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 5:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. As the anniversary of my full 8th year actively in the wireless internet business is here, I decided to make some comments. My interest in wireless internet, and actual efforts to actually start doing it are now 14 years old. Yes, really, it was that long ago. And I'm feeling much older these days. My first internet venture failed quite spectacularly. I think I made every mistake one could make, and didn't learn every lesson there was to learn, either. But it did help, as I did not repeat a bunch of things that were fatal. The most important one was to not start with vastly larger bills than your revenue. Growth doesn't always come in rapid fashion. And there's a cost to all growth. Know before you make that leap, what the consequences will be. Over the last few years, I've been known to get what some people call political. Perhaps it is, I say it isn't. It's just common sense business principles. It was one of my first lessons - learn how to preserve your future flexibility, because THINGS CHANGE. That, too, was one of my first mistakes. I had no alternatives, really, to travelling down the road I started on, which was a seriously bad mistake. That ability to be flexible, to violate the rules of internet by wire, is what created the WISP business in the first place, and yet, it's one of the things that's been done the most damage to, and faces the largest threats in the future. This post is probably my last, as it concerns things WISPA. I have given up on WISPA completely. Mostly for the reasons above. While WISPA was being formed, I had the self-generated illusion that fellow WISPS's would be all about getting, expanding, and maintaining the freedom to be in business. We're notorious for being rogues, cowboys, unconventional, and extremely individualistic. It would have never occurred to me that one or more founders of WISPA would go to the FCC and tell them that they should create reporting mandates and then encourage regulation of our industry. My shock when I learned that was a kind of rock your world kind of thing. And anger. Serious anger. How dare people undertake to put us under the thumb of the utterly incompetent idiots in Washington DC? If you want to live that way, go live some place like that, don't undertake to force it upon me. That's the essence of the American attitude, history, and the very thing that built this country. Over the years, I've come to realize that unlike me, few of our industry have any such lesson learned. The idea of getting free money or loans or other favors in the form of money from government or government actions has lured them into becoming just another faction of the crony capitalism that has all but destroyed our nation's economy, currency, and threatens to finish the job, rapid-fire. WISPA certainly doesn't seem to have any interest in telling Washington DC to go pound sand, and do what is the morally, economically, and Constitutionally right and proper thing. Leave us the HELL ALONE! Stop pretending that DC is the source of goodness, and stop pretending that they have even an IOTA of the answers for what ails the country and how to supply our needs. They do not. I won't waste your time with explanations of what I want, after all, either you're in agreement, or else your only interest is in creating false portrayals to attack me personally, calling me an anti-government nut or any of 100 other senseless phrases. Some of you I've gotten to know a bit over the years, and I have no idea if any of you are on this list anymore. Maybe someone will post this where everyone can read it if they want. Why we can't advocate for economic and business operation freedom anymore is completely beyond my comprehension. Especially since we're supposed be about business, a business which exists solely because of that amazing concept of economic and personal liberty otherwise known as capitalism - or free enterprise - take your pick. It offends too many, and those who it doesn't are too too timid to stand for what they think in the presence of the socialist bullies. It's my wish and my prayer as well, that all of you have a good life, a prosperous future, health, and happiness. But I hold out little hope, long term. Unless things change, we're all going away, our plans and enterprises massacred by the attitude that all our needs are merely a utilitarian function of government. Still, I hope the best for all - and always have and always will. Mark ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 ++
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Since you are talking about me Mark I'll chime in here a bit too. As I've said before. You and I mostly agree. Government is, with precious few exceptions, the enemy of the people. Government and far to many that work in it are just plain evil. Or maybe arrogant but in the end that causes them to do evil things to the regular folk of the country. WISPA is an association of or membership. The members are encouraged to run for leadership positions every year (half the board is up for election every year). There is no restriction on who can run for the board other than they have to be a member in good standing. There are a few other things that we ask of our candidates but they don't generally apply to the people here (no one I know of is sitting in jail right now :-). WISPA was formed to help protect our industry. Mostly from the government. That's why we are so focused and spend most of our money on FCC and legislative issues. We've actually been pretty successful here. We've had good success on favorable rules changes, gotten additional spectrum and we've stopped quite a few bad ideas from coming to fruition. I remember getting into it with you on the idea of reporting on the 477. You called me a traitor. Perhaps that fits but I think of myself as more of a realist. The 477 is there. We can't make it go away. In fact, much to my chagrin, it's work with the stupid broadband map. Tell you what though. They ARE there. They DO exist. And your competition is going to be government funded, or not, based at least in part on what the map shows. If you refuse to place yourself on the map, that's your choice. A foolish choice that's bad for you AND the rest of the industry, but your choice to make none the less. I live in farm country. Everyone out here gets government money for something. Crop failures, CRP programs, price supports etc. It sucks. Government money is poison. But so is NO money. It's like salt in many ways. Too much will kill you just as dead as too little. Here's a current example. We have bought out some of the CRP my family has. We run off road motorbike races on the ground. Now it's up for renewal. But the Fish and Wildlife department is refusing to allow the renewal because we need a buffer zone around the track. One that's probably bigger than the 49 acres of crp will support. Dad's still looking into it. Dad's PISSED off though. He didn't enter into any contracts with Fish and Game, why are they involved with this issue at all It's ALL private property. But, since it's rented to the government we have to live by it's rules. The bike races bring 10s of thousands or dollars into our local economy. Probably closer to 100k. But that doesn't matter to the dickheads at Fish and Game. They are more worried about the fish that don't exist in the middle of a field and the game birds that might be harmed in some way. I guess birds and deer can't hear a dirt bike coming soon enough to get out of the way. Wanna know the funniest part of all this? Dad plants habitat and birds because he loves that kind of stuff. That doesn't matter to Fish and Game though. They still want the races stopped. Or he has to give up over $2500 per year in revenue from the CRP payments on that ground. More than he'd make farming it (that's the reason for CRP in the first place). So a guy is stuck. The government controls (in one way or another) the prices farmers can charge for their crops, chemical use etc. and therefore the revenue that a farmer can generate. They then offer a program that will pay the farmer more money for the use of his poor ground and set the rules for it's use (basically nothing). Then they change the rules as time goes on, making them more and more restrictive. Eventually out here people tend to eventually give up and sell the ground to the government. MOST of the water ways are now owned by the state. I could go on, but everyone here has a similar story to tell. Look at the recent thread about the idiotic OSHA rules. Who's going to let anyone put a fall restraint system on their home? If you have a habit of falling off roofs, go get a desk job! In the end though. You and I, alone, can't fix any of this. We can't control anything. We have to band together into groups. And those groups have to compromise. Those groups also have to deal with reality as it exists while they try to enact their ultimate goals. WISPA did tell the FCC to eliminate USF, CAF or any other subsidies. We told them to just let the market deal with the issues. We knew ahead of time that they'd reject that stance though. So we also suggested alternative plans and mechanisms that would do the least harm to our industry, communities and country. Your problem Mark is that you don't understand the compromise part. It's funny though, we all do it every day. We walk on different sides of the hall. We
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
There was a time, Marlon, when I would have agreed with you. Except that I've been paying attention for a quite a few years... compromise is what got us to this. Not galloping, leaps and bounds, unhindered statism, but the exact compromise you are talking about - it ALWAYS goes in one direction. The only compromise has been how far and how much. It's the ratchet effect. Sometimes not moving, but NEVER going in the right direction. It has found its way into every detail of every thing. So, no, no more compromising. I'm done. It's now REVERSE. Not compromise on not as much more but, NO MORE, and NOW LESS. And if you're (WISPA) not actively acting to accomplish that, then it's actively hindering that action. It's on the wrong side. It's like travelling a road. You're going to go one way... Or the other. There isn't a compromise, if you're not going north, you're going south, if you're not going east, you're going west, and there is no such thing as standing still without being pointed in some direction. You say that you alone can't do anything.That I can't. I agree. But it has to start...somewhere. If Uncle Sam came running, handing me free money I would not take it - and I, personally, have never been personally in as precarious financially as I am now, with no assurance I'll even have a home from one week to the next. It's called principle, Marlon. I have no right to what other people have worked for, or will work for in the next 50 years ( paying interest on our ocean of debt), and I will not take it. In fact, it has to start with EVERY ONE OF US, not just how we vote, but how we act, how we talk to our neighbors, how we make our decisions, and what ideas we promote. I can't say I'm for this and then not live it. It's pure hypocrisy to say you gotta live with the system. No, you don't. You have the freedom to still say no. You have the freedom to NOT take CRP or RUS loans, or look for ways to get USF funding, for instance. But, if you're willing to sell the use of your land for the pittance they give you, then you have no claim to saying you're 'with me', because you're not - you're completely willing to agree with, and take money from a program that robs one set of citizens to give money to another, plain and simple. And look how widespread acceptance is among people who would otherwise claim to be small government conservatives. I'm grateful you're now telling them to end USF and other stuff, but you know it's not going away until the Congress makes it go away. But Congress (and whoever is president) isn't going to make it go away until a very large majority of us, the people, demand it. And no such demands are going to happen until we (you, me, and every single other person) have made the case for free markets, economic freedom, freedom to be in business, freedom of innovation, and freedom from political burdens with no redeeming value whatsoever. But we're not there. You're as helpful to the cause as the current president, because you're (and maybe not you, personally, Marlon, this has NEVER been about you in a personal way... My conversations referenced before... were not with you. I've have conversations you don't know about) still willing to take money in opposition to what you claim to think. Until we're not, Marlon, then we're not really believing what we're saying ,and of course, if we're not, we're never going to convince the country it has to change, or face a crisis beyond those of recorded history. Is WISPA making the case, not to just DC, but to the members as well, industry wide, that free markets solve problems? Does the organization actively promote unfettered competition, by its members? Does it make the case that no subsidies is, in fact, the only truly viable business and national strategy? If not, then WISPA is still in diametric opposition to me. Does WISPA leadership routinely offer workshops on how individual WISP's can find opportunity to be those free market powerhouses? And why and how you should stand on your own and why you should not get tangled up in trying to get a few dollars in exchange for a lack of autonomy? Going back to CRP, the people who signed up didn't see it in the terms I've posted. Because we're conditioned to not think about it. Because so many of us just see the dollars and don't apply forgotten principles that matter. Look how many millions of people went and borrowed money on a loan guaranteed by our federal government - many of which I'm sure, still claim to be for freedom, for limited government, and so on. Look how it has corrupted us as a people, that we'll now give up almost anything we believe in for a few dollars or other material or monetary benefit. Nothing will change, until we're ready to live by what we think, and start doing so, and that includes our businesses, our financial lives, and every vote we
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
I was told a story from my elders A Group of blind folks were taken to a Zoo and they were giving an opportunity to 'see' an elephant. Obviously they used their touch / feel and smell sense to 'see' the elephant. Later on, upon their return they were asked to describe the elephant. The fellow who got to touch the elephant's Legs, described the elephant like a 'Tree', the fellow who got to touch the elephant's trunk, described the elephant as a big rubber hose pipe, the fellow who got to touch the elephant's tail got to describe the elephant as a 'rope'. Mark, I don't know you , but have read your posts, on the WISPA lists, as well as other Lists and forum you post you.. I have to say, while your heart may be in the right place.. but I am sorry to say that your layout of the problem, logic you use to explain the issue and the the suggested reaction only leads me to believe that you are seriously disillusioned about where you live and how the US Gov. operates and has operated since the inception of time. I was tempted to reply to your earlier email, but decided against it.. seeing another long email, I could not hold back... (BTW.. did you not say that the one before was your last email ?) :) While you, myself and many others will agree on the undesirable attributes of the US Government, I cannot but chuckle at childish suggestion of throwing a what would be equivalent to a 'tantrum' and hiding your head in the sand , assuming that no one will see you as a solution to the current problem. Guess what, this is exactly what the folks who are getting away with what they can want you, us and the others to do.. I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles of Government' on how they function and operate. You seem to be totally missing the last 2 thirds of the 'for the people, of the people and by the people' , and yes it is precisely because of thinking like yours (suggested in your own words), that the Great French Philosophers of their time, said that the US Constitution / way of Governing is never going to work, and it is doomed for failure When asked why ? The response was .. 'Simple. common people are not interested in participating in the Governing process'. Keep it up, and you will make true everything that you are trying to avoid.. Be like the Ostrich hide your head in the sand, and no-body can see you ... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/2/2012 9:09 PM, MDK wrote: There was a time, Marlon, when I would have agreed with you. Except that I've been paying attention for a quite a few years... compromise is what got us to this. Not galloping, leaps and bounds, unhindered statism, but the exact compromise you are talking about - it ALWAYS goes in one direction. The only compromise has been how far and how much. It's the ratchet effect. Sometimes not moving, but NEVER going in the right direction. It has found its way into every detail of every thing. So, no, no more compromising. I'm done. It's now REVERSE. Not compromise on not as much more but, NO MORE, and NOW LESS. And if you're (WISPA) not actively acting to accomplish that, then it's actively hindering that action. It's on the wrong side. It's like travelling a road. You're going to go one way... Or the other. There isn't a compromise, if you're not going north, you're going south, if you're not going east, you're going west, and there is no such thing as standing still without being pointed in some direction. You say that you alone can't do anything.That I can't. I agree. But it has to start...somewhere. If Uncle Sam came running, handing me free money I would not take it - and I, personally, have never been personally in as precarious financially as I am now, with no assurance I'll even have a home from one week to the next. It's called principle, Marlon. I have no right to what other people have worked for, or will work for in the next 50 years ( paying interest on our ocean of debt), and I will not take it. In fact, it has to start with EVERY ONE OF US, not just how we vote, but how we act, how we talk to our neighbors, how we make our decisions, and what ideas we promote. I can't say I'm for this and then not live it. It's pure hypocrisy to say you gotta live with the system. No, you don't. You have the freedom to still say no. You have the freedom to NOT take CRP or RUS loans, or look for ways to get USF funding, for instance. But, if you're willing to sell the use of your
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
I knew I could count on you to demonstrate complete ignorance of What Should Be, Because It Once Was. The founders would curse you for having no understanding. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles of Government' on how they function and operate. You seem to be totally missing the last 2 thirds of the 'for the people, of the people and by the people' , and yes it is precisely because of thinking like yours (suggested in your own words), that the Great French Philosophers of their time, said that the US Constitution / way of Governing is never going to work, and it is doomed for failure When asked why ? The response was .. 'Simple. common people are not interested in participating in the Governing process'. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
A lot of us simply want to be left alone. Don't help me. Don't help my competition. Let us fight it out on our own I participate in the state broadband mapping project solely to prevent being overbuilt with MY tax money. That is the only reason. If a private company wants to build near me, go for it. One currently has in a few spots. I'll be happy to compete with them...as long as they are built with private money. I'll work with them to mitigate interference and other mutual interests and in general be try to work with them. But if they are on the government teat, I have no interest in working with them on anything. As far as I am concerned, they STOLE my money to build their network. I WANT them to fail. The sooner the better. And I'll do everything legal I can to hurry it along. On 5/2/2012 11:34 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I was told a story from my elders A Group of blind folks were taken to a Zoo and they were giving an opportunity to 'see' an elephant. Obviously they used their touch / feel and smell sense to 'see' the elephant. Later on, upon their return they were asked to describe the elephant. The fellow who got to touch the elephant's Legs, described the elephant like a 'Tree', the fellow who got to touch the elephant's trunk, described the elephant as a big rubber hose pipe, the fellow who got to touch the elephant's tail got to describe the elephant as a 'rope'. Mark, I don't know you , but have read your posts, on the WISPA lists, as well as other Lists and forum you post you.. I have to say, while your heart may be in the right place.. but I am sorry to say that your layout of the problem, logic you use to explain the issue and the the suggested reaction only leads me to believe that you are seriously disillusioned about where you live and how the US Gov. operates and has operated since the inception of time. I was tempted to reply to your earlier email, but decided against it.. seeing another long email, I could not hold back... (BTW.. did you not say that the one before was your last email ?) :) While you, myself and many others will agree on the undesirable attributes of the US Government, I cannot but chuckle at childish suggestion of throwing a what would be equivalent to a 'tantrum' and hiding your head in the sand , assuming that no one will see you as a solution to the current problem. Guess what, this is exactly what the folks who are getting away with what they can want you, us and the others to do.. I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles of Government' on how they function and operate. You seem to be totally missing the last 2 thirds of the 'for the people, of the people and by the people' , and yes it is precisely because of thinking like yours (suggested in your own words), that the Great French Philosophers of their time, said that the US Constitution / way of Governing is never going to work, and it is doomed for failure When asked why ? The response was .. 'Simple. common people are not interested in participating in the Governing process'. Keep it up, and you will make true everything that you are trying to avoid.. Be like the Ostrich hide your head in the sand, and no-body can see you ... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/2/2012 9:09 PM, MDK wrote: There was a time, Marlon, when I would have agreed with you. Except that I've been paying attention for a quite a few years... "compromise" is what got us to this. Not galloping, leaps and bounds, unhindered statism, but the exact compromise you are talking about - it ALWAYS goes in one direction. The only "compromise" has been how far and how much. It's the ratchet effect. Sometimes not moving, but NEVER going in the right direction.It has found its way into every detail of every thing. So, no, no more compromising. I'm done. It's now REVERSE. Not compromise on "not as much more" but, NO MORE, and NOW LESS. And if you're (WISPA)not
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Cheers... You nailed it now you know what I meant by 'hiding your head in the sand' No ignorance of 'What Should Be, Because It Once Was'... but recognition of ... What IT IS AT THE PRESENT and WHAT IT NEEDS to BE in the FUTURE.. I suggest you continue to remain in the in the past... so that when the next set of 'future' come and hits you on the side.. you can continue discussing what it could be or could have been Meanwhile I would suggest that you stop dissing folks who are trying very hard to get his train wreck back on it's track against surmounting odds. The Shit that is hitting us all in the Telecom industry today was signed sealed and delivered 7 years ago and 7 years ago most of the WISP's were a happy go lucky crowd. Like I have said before, want to do something about it ? Get active (and I don't mean your one time effort to call your Congress Person and giving them your piece of mind)... It is a journey and not an event nor a destination... or Keep your armchair quarterbacking skill for your Sunday Night Football events.. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/3/2012 12:10 AM, MDK wrote: I knew I could count on you to demonstrate complete ignorance of What Should Be, Because It Once Was. The founders would curse you for having no understanding. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles of Government' on how they function and operate. You seem to be totally missing the last 2 thirds of the 'for the people, of the people and by the people' , and yes it is precisely because of thinking like yours (suggested in your own words), that the Great French Philosophers of their time, said that the US Constitution / way of Governing is never going to work, and it is doomed for failure When asked why ? The response was .. 'Simple. common people are not interested in participating in the Governing process'. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
