Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo
[WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] problems with cisco 7200 and PA-T3
Just installed a cisco 7204vxr with a DS3 interface. we are not getting more than 5Mbits. show interface is not reporting any errors. the provider tech put a piece test equipment on the circuit and sees errors. Does anyone else use a cisco 7200 with a DS3 interface that we might be able to speak with? Please hit me off list Thank you, Adam 801.971.1856 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] connectorizing a canopy radio
Looking for information on how to connectorize a 5.7 backhull canopy radio. Is there a howto online somewhere? and how about testing? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 1 AP and 2 antennas
Hi, I would like to set up 2 antennas (East and West more or less) but will not get more than 30 subs between the 2. I would like to connect both antennas to one AP. Normally, I would not even dream of doing this. However this is a small valey with low interferance. And all the subs will be very clse, peobably less than a quarter mile from the AP. I am planning to use 900MHz for this. So I guess this would be a device that would connect to the AP with one COAX and then connect to each antenna with a COAX. So, 3 N connectors. Has any of you done this, did you have success, and what is the device called, and where would I get it? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 1 AP and 2 antennas
Thanks guys. Loosing 3db is probably not an issue since I was going to lower the tx power anyway doe to the distance to the subs. found this for $50. says its good for 0-6ghz. does it need to be tuned to a specific freq? http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=20865 Now all I need to do is test and see how it works out. On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: Hi, I would like to set up 2 antennas (East and West more or less) but will not get more than 30 subs between the 2. I would like to connect both antennas to one AP. Normally, I would not even dream of doing this. However this is a small valey with low interferance. And all the subs will be very clse, peobably less than a quarter mile from the AP. I am planning to use 900MHz for this. So I guess this would be a device that would connect to the AP with one COAX and then connect to each antenna with a COAX. So, 3 N connectors. Has any of you done this, did you have success, and what is the device called, and where would I get it? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question
I had some trouble with radar (think it was radar) last year. Interferences could be from many sources. It sa problem because you can't just go sit there for a couple of weeks with a spectrum analyzer listening for noise. It would be nice if there was a reasonably priced logger. Or with Internet connectivity. All this is probably a pipe dream as I have never seen anything with such functionality. On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: Anyone know of a radio that can just listen passively and scan through channels and report back on radar signals heard on what frequencies? That would be a great tool to have to scope out certain areas of interest to know ahead of time what radar DFS issues might be present... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:30 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Gell Cell? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Rackmount AC to 24V or 24V DC Power Supply
NewMar has one. Sent from my phone On Apr 15, 2009, at 7:03 PM, can...@believewireless.net p...@believewireless.net wrote: Does anyone know of an affordable rackmount power supply that outputs 24V or 48V? Google search turns up a lot but very pricey. --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] SiteMonitor (Base) IP address?
Happy Easter everyone, I just got a SiteMonitor from PacketFlux and am trying to get it going. I thought I would find some instructions in the box but I was wrong. does anyone know the IP settings for this thing? Thinking it would try to pick up an address from my dhcp server I just hooked it up but it didn't. Any idea? Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] SiteMonitor (Base) IP address?
Found it! http://manuals.packetflux.com/index.php?page=accessing-the-device The default IP address is: 169.254.1.20 On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: Happy Easter everyone, I just got a SiteMonitor from PacketFlux and am trying to get it going. I thought I would find some instructions in the box but I was wrong. does anyone know the IP settings for this thing? Thinking it would try to pick up an address from my dhcp server I just hooked it up but it didn't. Any idea? Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out for the POE? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard CAT5 runs. Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout the cable into a patch panel or punch down block. From there then run individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment. Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm talking about. Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical panel rather than the punch down block. Bottom side of the run is simply punched down into a patch panel. This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code. For the correct color code look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
OK. So would one use the 25th pair to power all the radios over a 150' run? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: 24/4 =6 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower 24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out for the POE? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard CAT5 runs. Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout the cable into a patch panel or punch down block. From there then run individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment. Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm talking about. Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical panel rather than the punch down block. Bottom side of the run is simply punched down into a patch panel. This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code. For the correct color code look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair? - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
As Dylan mentioned, increased lightning damage could also be an issue with a single core cable. I run all my cables in a single bunch down the tower. They are individually shielded. And all the shielding is connected to the same ground of course. Regardless, they would also get power from the same source. I could put individual arrestors at the top of the tower. At the bottom I would have one for the AC and one for each Ethernet quad. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: OK. So would one use the 25th pair to power all the radios over a 150' run? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: 24/4 =6 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower 24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out for the POE? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard CAT5 runs. Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout the cable into a patch panel or punch down block. From there then run individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment. Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm talking about. Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical panel rather than the punch down block. Bottom side of the run is simply punched down into a patch panel. This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code. For the correct color code look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair? - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
Is there anyone doing this in a frequent lightning area? We are in Massachusetts and last summer we had a %^#^% of a time keeping up. We did a lot of work improving grounding but I am still worried. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:22 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Run a separate 12 or 14 awg for your DC power. The 24awg isn't enough size to power multiple radios. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:07:55 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower OK. So would one use the 25th pair to power all the radios over a 150' run? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: 24/4 =6 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower 24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out for the POE? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard CAT5 runs. Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout the cable into a patch panel or punch down block. From there then run individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment. Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm talking about. Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical panel rather than the punch down block. Bottom side of the run is simply punched down into a patch panel. This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code. For the correct color code look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair? - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today
Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
Right. I guess the only difference is that separate shielding over a long parallel run. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:24 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Why you want to make sure you properly ground and use surge arrestors. But not that much different to run separate cat5 runs. They are all connected to same AC source and plugged into the same switch etc so no different really. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:14:55 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower As Dylan mentioned, increased lightning damage could also be an issue with a single core cable. I run all my cables in a single bunch down the tower. They are individually shielded. And all the shielding is connected to the same ground of course. Regardless, they would also get power from the same source. I could put individual arrestors at the top of the tower. At the bottom I would have one for the AC and one for each Ethernet quad. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: OK. So would one use the 25th pair to power all the radios over a 150' run? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: 24/4 =6 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower 24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out for the POE? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard CAT5 runs. Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout the cable into a patch panel or punch down block. From there then run individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment. Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm talking about. Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical panel rather than the punch down block. Bottom side of the run is simply punched down into a patch panel. This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code. For the correct color code look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair? - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
Here is the original concern regarding the lightning strike jumping to other radios. = snip Would this not increase the chances of a strike to a single AP jumping at the block to the other pairs? Dylan = snip On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: I think you're making this more difficult than necessary. 25pr = 50 wires = 25 pair There are 8 wires in a standard CAT5 cable. 50 / 8 = 6.25 or more simply 48 / 8 = 6 Or as David illustrated there are four pairs in a standard CAT5 cable. So, if you take 24 pairs from the 25 pair cable and divide by 4 you get 6 giving you 6 cables. Regarding lightning; we haven't seen any increase in lightning risk with this type of installation and have several installed this way on a variety of structures and elevations. If your site is grounded properly I don't believe one cable is more susceptible to lightning strikes than six. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower As Dylan mentioned, increased lightning damage could also be an issue with a single core cable. I run all my cables in a single bunch down the tower. They are individually shielded. And all the shielding is connected to the same ground of course. Regardless, they would also get power from the same source. I could put individual arrestors at the top of the tower. At the bottom I would have one for the AC and one for each Ethernet quad. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: OK. So would one use the 25th pair to power all the radios over a 150' run? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: 24/4 =6 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower 24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out for the POE? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard CAT5 runs. Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout the cable into a patch panel or punch down block. From there then run individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment. Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm talking about. Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical panel rather than the punch down block. Bottom side of the run is simply punched down into a patch panel. This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code. For the correct color code look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair? - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
Ryan, Did you mean 1,2,3, and 6? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:34 PM, D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: There are 25 pairs of wires in a 25 pair cable. You only need 2 pair per run for standard ethernet (1,2,3 5 in a standard RJ45) So that gives you 12 connections between top and bottom. For power, use a separate power run to the cabinet (speaker wire!... just kidding!) There you have it. ryan Brad Belton wrote: I think you're making this more difficult than necessary. 25pr = 50 wires = 25 pair There are 8 wires in a standard CAT5 cable. 50 / 8 = 6.25 or more simply 48 / 8 = 6 Or as David illustrated there are four pairs in a standard CAT5 cable. So, if you take 24 pairs from the 25 pair cable and divide by 4 you get 6 giving you 6 cables. Regarding lightning; we haven't seen any increase in lightning risk with this type of installation and have several installed this way on a variety of structures and elevations. If your site is grounded properly I don't believe one cable is more susceptible to lightning strikes than six. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower As Dylan mentioned, increased lightning damage could also be an issue with a single core cable. I run all my cables in a single bunch down the tower. They are individually shielded. And all the shielding is connected to the same ground of course. Regardless, they would also get power from the same source. I could put individual arrestors at the top of the tower. At the bottom I would have one for the AC and one for each Ethernet quad. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: OK. So would one use the 25th pair to power all the radios over a 150' run? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: 24/4 =6 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower 24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out for the POE? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard CAT5 runs. Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout the cable into a patch panel or punch down block. From there then run individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment. Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm talking about. Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical panel rather than the punch down block. Bottom side of the run is simply punched down into a patch panel. This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code. For the correct color code look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair? - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
By wire I mean the 25 pair single core cable. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: Thank you everyone. Very helpful. thank you for the picture too. Is there a part number for the wire and a good place to buy? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:51 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: It is not that simple it matter which pairs you use. If you just try matching wires or pairs at each end you will have problems. You need to punch it down according to the standard or you will not end up with 6 working Ethernet cables. For short runs you could probably get away with not following the standard but don't try it for long runs. David -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower There are 25 pairs of wires in a 25 pair cable. You only need 2 pair per run for standard ethernet (1,2,3 5 in a standard RJ45) So that gives you 12 connections between top and bottom. For power, use a separate power run to the cabinet (speaker wire!... just kidding!) There you have it. ryan Brad Belton wrote: I think you're making this more difficult than necessary. 25pr = 50 wires = 25 pair There are 8 wires in a standard CAT5 cable. 50 / 8 = 6.25 or more simply 48 / 8 = 6 Or as David illustrated there are four pairs in a standard CAT5 cable. So, if you take 24 pairs from the 25 pair cable and divide by 4 you get 6 giving you 6 cables. Regarding lightning; we haven't seen any increase in lightning risk with this type of installation and have several installed this way on a variety of structures and elevations. If your site is grounded properly I don't believe one cable is more susceptible to lightning strikes than six. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower As Dylan mentioned, increased lightning damage could also be an issue with a single core cable. I run all my cables in a single bunch down the tower. They are individually shielded. And all the shielding is connected to the same ground of course. Regardless, they would also get power from the same source. I could put individual arrestors at the top of the tower. At the bottom I would have one for the AC and one for each Ethernet quad. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: OK. So would one use the 25th pair to power all the radios over a 150' run? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: 24/4 =6 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower 24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out for the POE? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard CAT5 runs. Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout the cable into a patch panel or punch down block. From there then run individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment. Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm talking about. Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical panel rather than the punch down block. Bottom side of the run is simply punched down into a patch panel. This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code. For the correct color code look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables
Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower
Thank you everyone. Very helpful. thank you for the picture too. Is there a part number for the wire and a good place to buy? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:51 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: It is not that simple it matter which pairs you use. If you just try matching wires or pairs at each end you will have problems. You need to punch it down according to the standard or you will not end up with 6 working Ethernet cables. For short runs you could probably get away with not following the standard but don't try it for long runs. David -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower There are 25 pairs of wires in a 25 pair cable. You only need 2 pair per run for standard ethernet (1,2,3 5 in a standard RJ45) So that gives you 12 connections between top and bottom. For power, use a separate power run to the cabinet (speaker wire!... just kidding!) There you have it. ryan Brad Belton wrote: I think you're making this more difficult than necessary. 25pr = 50 wires = 25 pair There are 8 wires in a standard CAT5 cable. 50 / 8 = 6.25 or more simply 48 / 8 = 6 Or as David illustrated there are four pairs in a standard CAT5 cable. So, if you take 24 pairs from the 25 pair cable and divide by 4 you get 6 giving you 6 cables. Regarding lightning; we haven't seen any increase in lightning risk with this type of installation and have several installed this way on a variety of structures and elevations. If your site is grounded properly I don't believe one cable is more susceptible to lightning strikes than six. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower As Dylan mentioned, increased lightning damage could also be an issue with a single core cable. I run all my cables in a single bunch down the tower. They are individually shielded. And all the shielding is connected to the same ground of course. Regardless, they would also get power from the same source. I could put individual arrestors at the top of the tower. At the bottom I would have one for the AC and one for each Ethernet quad. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: OK. So would one use the 25th pair to power all the radios over a 150' run? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM, David ad...@speedyquick.net wrote: 24/4 =6 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower 24 / 8 = 3... I guess you run the power up separately? and break it out for the POE? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: A 25pr armored outdoor CAT5 cable is equivalent to running 6 standard CAT5 runs. Run the 25pr to a NEMA4 Hammond enclosure or equivalent and breakout the cable into a patch panel or punch down block. From there then run individual outdoor armored CAT5 to your equipment. Attached is a picture of an example from 2004 or 2005 of what I'm talking about. Since this installation we've gone to a 12 port RJ45 vertical panel rather than the punch down block. Bottom side of the run is simply punched down into a patch panel. This picture unfortunately shows an incorrect 25pr color code. For the correct color code look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Easy Ethernet up the tower Hi guys, I am thinking of installing Ethernet junction boxes on my towers (top and bottom). The idea is to install a larger number of runs up the tower and run shorter runs from the box to the radios. The same at the bottom from the patch panel to the equipment/arrestors etc. Is anyone doing this? What kink of (water proof) boxes do you use and do you use a multiple CAT5 cables or do you run 48 or 96 pair
Re: [WISPA] Microtik Remote Weirdness
Could it be that the board is getting to low a voltage? Sent from my iPhone On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: We have a tower with a single radio operating on it. We were using a Microtik 133 board with a single Prizim chipset in it. One day it stopped responding to requests through the network using Winbox. No customers were down so we assumed it was running bandwidth (too much snow to travel up there). One night about 7 PM we started getting tower down calls, of course we hadn't been able to ping or get into it for weeks so we had no idea. Took a back-up 433AH board up and used the same radio card, worked like a charm for both our access and customer throughput. We didn't want to waste a three port/LAN board so ordered a 433a single port board. Once it arrived we logged into it by MAC in the office with no problem, programmed it and sent it up to the tower. Once on the tower customers associated just fine but once again we couldn't access the management side. We saw the MAC and the identity for it but we couldn't ping that IP (yes, the 433AH radio was unplugged) and trying to load by MAC would start the RouterOS download but at various places it would crash. Moved the 433A down to the hut and a laptop easily logged into it, even when plugged into the switch, but we still couldn't log into it from remote, although the laptop on scene was going through the same switch and by MAC just like we were trying, sigh. OK we put the 433AH back in service and again everything worked great. I'm stumped, we isolated the switch, Cat 5, and IP Address but those two single cards won't allow us to log in over using Winbox either by IP or by MAC while it allows it locally. *banging head against the wall. Any ideas? Forbes --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.8GHz Backhaul Radio Recommendations
Please let us know how it worked Sent from my iPhone On Jan 9, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com wrote: I just lent a pair of Bullet5 units to a friend who is planning to replace some old upconverted Alvarion BH units on a 26 mile link with 2' dishes. That should be an interesting test. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Matt wrote: Andrews Antenna P3F-52-NXA 5.8GHz backhaul radio died today because of a power surge. Old Proxim gear, 2 x T1. I wanted some feedback from vendors/users of what they are using. I need to keep it under $5K if possible. Link distance: 8.3 miles Antennas: Andrews P3F-52-NXA http://www.ubnt.com/products/bullet.php At less then $70 for a 5.x ghz module the price cant be beat. Have a couple on hand to try but no experience with them yet. Matt --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FM radio station site strangeness
We also colocate with an FM transmitter. Only 1300W though. we also had interference on our Ethernet lines. We solved it by moving radios away from the FM antenna (3 feet or so on a 90' tower) We also installed ferrits which helped (I actually used a conduit pipe). Grounding the cat5 helped too. I would think that if you find that you need more shielding. put all your cat5 cables in a conduit and install abreakout box at the top of the tower. If your area is prone to electrical storms (where isn't these days?!) you will at some point be very sorry you didn't grount (and well!!) On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Hi All, I think we finally have this all figured out. Now I just have to figure out how to fix it. We've been up there for over 6 years now. It's certainly been a problematic site though. Constant channel changes (we have 3 competitors a mile away and pick up hundreds of ap's from in town) are the norm. This fall (a month or two ago) one of the tenants left the building. This cleared out most of the hardware that was in there. A little bit before that I replaced an Inscape Data and a smartBridges combo with a single MT access point, using one of the cables that had been working for one of the other two. About a week ago things started to really act up. Multiple devices were having trouble. I was able to catch it in the act finally. This time the problem wasn't a wireless issue, the devices were constantly disconnecting and reconnecting at the switch level. I pulled the Cisco switch out and dropped in a Netgear unit. That didn't fix it. Next I put in a Digital Loggers rack mount reboot device. That wouldn't connect right either. I finally had to pull all of the hardware off of the shelf and set most of it on the floor (or just let it hang there) to get it working at all well. Still not perfect but better. I had by now hiked up there through sometimes knee deep snow 3 or 4 times. Next I took a motorbike with studded snow tires up and got permission to turn down the power to the radio station. That didn't fix the problem either. Next I borrowed a snowmobile and hauled some help and my spectrum analyzer up. I was unable to see any signals that didn't belong. Next day, another hike up the hill. OK, maybe a cat 5 cable went bad and I'm getting backfeed through the switch. DC current or something. So I started testing the cables that run to the most problematic units. Well now, look at that. Bad cable. In fact there are three of them. Hmmm, kinda strange though. All three have the exact same fault! Oh well, better change them out anyway. I ran three new cable runs and just for kicks I tested one of them. What the heck? The new cable has the EXACT same fault as the old one! Even though it didn't follow the exact same path as the old cables. Man, this is sure looking like a problem caused by the radio station. I was using indoor cat5 and didn't run lightning protection or ground anything. Yeah I know, but remember that this has been there for a very long time like this. And as a guy with an electrical background I know that there are actually two ways to deal with stray electrical. Grounding is one. Insulating is another Anyway, I know it wasn't built to specs. I added some grounding and that didn't help at all. Yesterday I finally had one of the local wireless companies (Day Wireless) that mainly does VHF radios, backhaul etc. They also checked things with the spectrum analyzer but couldn't find anything amiss. I was able to duplicate the wiring fault for them (with my Ideal tester). But suddenly everything cleared right up! Stuff was looking good, no cable fault etc. Pings were looking good, devices were finally negotiating the connections right etc. I called the radio station to ask if I could try turning the power down again to see if we see any change on the spectrum analyzer. They said they thought that I'd already done that because the showed the power was way down. Turns out someone in the building had bumped a breaker and shut down part of the transmitter! Well, we got all of that figured out and guess what. All of the problems came right back! I then turned the power back down and they cleared up. Tip for you guys, dropping an 18,000 watt system down by even 60% of it's normal output isn't always enough. We had to drop down to 10 to 20% to get the problems to clear up. The guys from Day Wireless had some small ferrite beads with them so we stuck them onto the cables. Put the beads on and the radios would negotiate at 100full. Take them off and they'd drop right back to 100 half. Duplicatable all day long. S, current theory is that the radio station is screwing up my cat5 connections. The fact that the building has less hardware in it and we have more snow up there than normal has probably caused some different
Re: [WISPA] FM radio station site strangeness
It also sounds like there is a new leak in the waveguide. One more thing you might try is to move the cable from leg to leg on the tower so that you variable length sections that do not resonate at 350MHz or ~100MHz (FM transminssion). On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: We also colocate with an FM transmitter. Only 1300W though. we also had interference on our Ethernet lines. We solved it by moving radios away from the FM antenna (3 feet or so on a 90' tower) We also installed ferrits which helped (I actually used a conduit pipe). Grounding the cat5 helped too. I would think that if you find that you need more shielding. put all your cat5 cables in a conduit and install abreakout box at the top of the tower. If your area is prone to electrical storms (where isn't these days?!) you will at some point be very sorry you didn't grount (and well!!) On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Hi All, I think we finally have this all figured out. Now I just have to figure out how to fix it. We've been up there for over 6 years now. It's certainly been a problematic site though. Constant channel changes (we have 3 competitors a mile away and pick up hundreds of ap's from in town) are the norm. This fall (a month or two ago) one of the tenants left the building. This cleared out most of the hardware that was in there. A little bit before that I replaced an Inscape Data and a smartBridges combo with a single MT access point, using one of the cables that had been working for one of the other two. About a week ago things started to really act up. Multiple devices were having trouble. I was able to catch it in the act finally. This time the problem wasn't a wireless issue, the devices were constantly disconnecting and reconnecting at the switch level. I pulled the Cisco switch out and dropped in a Netgear unit. That didn't fix it. Next I put in a Digital Loggers rack mount reboot device. That wouldn't connect right either. I finally had to pull all of the hardware off of the shelf and set most of it on the floor (or just let it hang there) to get it working at all well. Still not perfect but better. I had by now hiked up there through sometimes knee deep snow 3 or 4 times. Next I took a motorbike with studded snow tires up and got permission to turn down the power to the radio station. That didn't fix the problem either. Next I borrowed a snowmobile and hauled some help and my spectrum analyzer up. I was unable to see any signals that didn't belong. Next day, another hike up the hill. OK, maybe a cat 5 cable went bad and I'm getting backfeed through the switch. DC current or something. So I started testing the cables that run to the most problematic units. Well now, look at that. Bad cable. In fact there are three of them. Hmmm, kinda strange though. All three have the exact same fault! Oh well, better change them out anyway. I ran three new cable runs and just for kicks I tested one of them. What the heck? The new cable has the EXACT same fault as the old one! Even though it didn't follow the exact same path as the old cables. Man, this is sure looking like a problem caused by the radio station. I was using indoor cat5 and didn't run lightning protection or ground anything. Yeah I know, but remember that this has been there for a very long time like this. And as a guy with an electrical background I know that there are actually two ways to deal with stray electrical. Grounding is one. Insulating is another Anyway, I know it wasn't built to specs. I added some grounding and that didn't help at all. Yesterday I finally had one of the local wireless companies (Day Wireless) that mainly does VHF radios, backhaul etc. They also checked things with the spectrum analyzer but couldn't find anything amiss. I was able to duplicate the wiring fault for them (with my Ideal tester). But suddenly everything cleared right up! Stuff was looking good, no cable fault etc. Pings were looking good, devices were finally negotiating the connections right etc. I called the radio station to ask if I could try turning the power down again to see if we see any change on the spectrum analyzer. They said they thought that I'd already done that because the showed the power was way down. Turns out someone in the building had bumped a breaker and shut down part of the transmitter! Well, we got all of that figured out and guess what. All of the problems came right back! I then turned the power back down and they cleared up. Tip for you guys, dropping an 18,000 watt system down by even 60% of it's normal output isn't always enough. We had to drop down to 10 to 20% to get the problems to clear up. The guys from Day Wireless had some small ferrite beads with them so we stuck them onto the cables. Put the beads on and the radios would
Re: [WISPA] Google's email services for ISPs
http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/partners/index.html On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Patrick Nix Jr. pni...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote: For those who may be using Google's branded services for ISPs can someone tell me where to go to find more information and how is it working for you. Currently we are running our email services on an out of production email server that is no longer supported and behind a Barracuda SF for spam protection. It is causing more problems than it's worth. If it were up to me I'd have everyone switch to gmail or something like that but of course people don't like to change their email addresses. Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (918) 235-0414 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: pni...@csweb.net ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google's email services for ISPs
I don't think you have to contact them if you are going to use the standard plan. We didn't. Adam On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Looks like it. It was all automated when we did it - never contacted someone from Google. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/partners/index.html On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Patrick Nix Jr. pni...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote: For those who may be using Google's branded services for ISPs can someone tell me where to go to find more information and how is it working for you. Currently we are running our email services on an out of production email server that is no longer supported and behind a Barracuda SF for spam protection. It is causing more problems than it's worth. If it were up to me I'd have everyone switch to gmail or something like that but of course people don't like to change their email addresses. Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (918) 235-0414 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: pni...@csweb.net ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear
How many customers on each cpe? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Alan Long alan.l...@aerowire.net wrote: I am looking for a ptmp(ap/cpe) solution, 5.2/5.4/5.8 ghz, need to be able to support about 25 feeds into several ap's. Need it to be cheap, but work..Will have complete los and the longest link will be .25 miles. Trying to link 25 buildings in a multi housing setup. Thanks for any help. http://www.aerowire.net Alan Long Director of Network Operations Aerowire http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=687+North+Dean+Roadcsz=Aubu rn%2C+AL+36830country=us 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 mailto:alan.l...@aerowire.net alan.l...@aerowire.net tel: mobile: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=3342759998E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 3342759998 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=336092E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 336092 https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883src=client_sig_212_1_card_joini nvite=1=en Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig=en Want a signature like this? --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] concrete cure period
I think it should be 28 days, regardless of the size. On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 2:28 PM, chris cooper ccoo...@intelliwave.com wrote: Does anybody know how long I should plan for concrete cure prior to tower construction? Base is 3x3x8', tower is 150' rohn 65 Thanks, Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Battery backup and monitoring
I am looking for a solid solution for a site power backup and monitoring. It would be nice to put together a parts list and application notes. These are the points I came up with. 1. A good resilient Charger 2. Monitoring of AC power (on/off state, and maybe voltage too) 3. Monitor battery health 4. How to protection power supply, batteries and monitoring device from AC damages fluctuations and lightning storms. My systems usually require 24DC as well as 48DC (for the Orthogon stuff) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Weather proofing antennas
Yes, there is a spray (cheaper but doen n that the sattelite folks use. There is also ot work as well) an iseophobic paint (very expensive and I hope it works better - I will test some soon). -Adam On 12/11/08, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I am curious to know if anyone does anything to prepare for lots of ice on grid antennas. I know that it is best to use a dish and cover where weather is prone to these kinds of things but some installs do not have the luxury. I have heard that spraying Pam (or some kind of oil, regardless of brand) should help for at least a few months - is this so? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Adam Goodman Owner/Network Engineer WiSpring, Inc. A Wireless Broadband Company 610 Main Street Great Barrington, MA 01230 http://wispring.com Office: 413.528.5008 Mobile: 801.971.1856 */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Adding more canopy 900MHz APs
I am needing to increase capacity at one of my sites. I already have 2 900APs and will need one more. The original setup covered about 180 degrees with 2 90 deg panels. I would like the third AP to overlap with the existing APs. the frequencies are not overlapping (906,915, and 924). Is there anything I should look out for? -Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cisco 2955
I doubt you 2955 will run at 7.5 VDC. Specs indicate 18 - 32VDC. I would think you need a 24VDC power source and not a 12VDC. I am surprised it ran at 12V (or 14 on a fully charged battery) On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Randy Cosby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More research proves you are probably right. the converter we have shuts down - or quits converting - at 11v. Recent storms have let batteries get that low a couple times. Ordering a new converter today that will go down to 7.5 v and adding more solar panels soon. Randy Gino Villarini wrote: Maybe is the converter? The 2955 is rated to accept 18 - 32 vdc .. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 2:09 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Cisco 2955 Anyone used one of these? Seems like a very nice, rugged switch. We used one for a solar site recently and it appears to be having some serious issues (dying) recently - we are assuming from voltage fluctuations. We're using a 12-24v regulated dc converter and powering it on the 24 v side. Replacing it with a mikrotik for now. Curious if anyone else has tried these and if this is normal behavior on a solar site for this switch? -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc office: 435-773-6071 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc office: 435-773-6071 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NetFlix Streaming Bandwidth Information
I oversubscribe 10/1. I try to keep it down to 30-35 subs per AP (mostly 900MHz=3mbps radios). Lets say I have only 2 streaming subs at any given time: 2x 2mbps = 4mbps. plus other regular traffic. The demand is only going to go up with time. Seems to me we need faster 900MHz radios if we want to stay in busines, and if Moto wants to stay in the 900 market. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I deliver 100 mbps wholesale to many rural areas for $3-4K/month type of figure. That includes transport. And stastically, you can oversub it, even with streaming content. You are never going to have all 20 streaming movies all at the same time. I am willing to take the chance. That is how we are building out our network. - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] NetFlix Streaming Bandwidth Information On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: I think the canopy 450 will do something like 30 down and 10 up. So that could give you 20 simultaneously which statistically could work if you had 50-100 on an AP. Ok, so you have 20 people on one AP pulling 2Meg each which is 40 meg stream. If you have just 3 towers like that, you will have 120Meg streaming. At $50/sub, you have 60*50 = $3k/month in revenue for those that are using that 120Meg. You'd NEVER get 120Meg delivered to rural America (at least not in MY area) for that kind of money. A DS3 here with 45Meg would be around $4500/month after you include the transport. What am I missing? Canopy isn't the answer...the question isn't JUST the last mile, but the business model overall. The problem CAN be solved at the last mile, but when people are demanding streaming services they will have to understand that $50 commodity service isn't the answer. I'd be happy to deliver ANYONE with a dedicated service level of 2,3 even 10M, but it won't be $50/month. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering* * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member* * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
