[WISPA] FCC chief's free broadband plan delayed
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_on_hi_te/free_broadband WASHINGTON - A plan by the nation's top telecommunications regulator to provide free wireless high-speed Internet service hit a snag this week over concerns about possible interference and a proposed censoring feature that upset free speech advocates. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Employee Incentives
Are you using a full time employee to do your installs? We don't hand out extra money, thats what our goal is, make extra money. So naturally after working hard to get that extra money, we keep it :) Around here, we call that extra money Profit :P George Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: When we have a good month we give a bonus. Sometimes it's hundreds of dollars. Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: [WISPA] Employee Incentives Does anybody out there practice this method of encouragement? If so, what are some of the ways you reward your staff? Examples: Installs per week, how many accounts you sold in a month, attendance, etc.. Thanks, Cameron Midcoast Internet WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Customer Service
Not to be long on the subject. I went to a training class many years ago. The theme for the entire weekend: Throwing money at a problem is not the answer. Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: I'm just curious to get some opinions, how far do you troubleshoot over the phone with a customer before truck roll? Case in point we have a cell that is about 1:45 min from our office one way, we go out yesterday to troubleshoot a connection problem with a single subscriber and after running survey on trango equip we find that a neighbor has some sort of 900Mhz device that is interfering. We would have known that w/o the drive had we had the customer run a survey while troubleshooting on the phone. We have always had a hands off equipment policy but we are thinking it's time to re-evaluate with the cost of fuel etc... What are some others doing in this regard? Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (918) 235-0414 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been around since Adam met Eve. The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty good documentation. If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to know. Trick is first searching the forums. Then there is Tog's WiKi that is pretty good. Tog has put a lot of time into the WiKi and helping others with their star stuff. One thing I might add, one reason it's hard to document star, it's always changing, and how do you document l7 filtering or isc dhcp easily? Fortunately Tog and a few other smart guys hang out there and try to offer their help when they can. Good luck Ralph. George ralph wrote: I just re-read it and need to clarify. I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never documented to only put an address on one interface. With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so you aren't inclined to make that mistake. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
You'll forget that you weren't familiar with it after you get used to them. It's just like getting a cisco router for your first time and then trying to figure out where to start. Sort of like walking in a dark room blindfolded for the first time, where am I? One thing about having to learn the system is when you are forced to look through all the various settings you start getting real familiar real fast of all the variations of settings. Usually thats enough to challenge a thinker type and they soon expose themselves as very versatile products and easy to mess with. And it touches on lots of things nothing to do with star. OLSR DHCP L7 are not anything special that star has done, they are the same as you would find in any linux router. They are just inluded as an additional features. Star is really about the wireless driver. Rest of the stuff is common place. As for the cards coming disabled, you now know, you can log into the unit to turn off a port. Nice feature to have. And to get there to the place where you disable or enable the device, you have to go there anyways to configure that port. What seasoned star guys probably do, at least I do this, is when I first turn a board on, I upload the newest firware that I intend on using. Then I upload a default configuration for that particular board in that particular situation. If it's a 2 port, a 4 port a 1 port etc, I have default configs. Actually those default configs are just a config off another board thats already configured. We download and back up the configs off every board on our network. Then we go through and make those changes that are unique to that deploymment, essid 1p addy, etc. It's then fast and easy. Utilistar, star util, and now Star gaze will help you. You can download the configs and save them and if a board dies on you, you just upload the current config to the new board and it works, no config changes needed. Just save and activate changes and reboot. Presto. The best thing about Stars forums style support, there is a lot of people that are very smart that are willing to help. And a lot of those guys also use MT, Alvarion, Moto, Trango and anything else, so it's not as much of a closed minded group to get help or opinions from. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a steep learning curve. There's just no reason for gear to not have a simple and advanced mode these days. And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple questions. There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of the box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and getting some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not even the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support number on the web site. I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base etc. this is all good. You only get really tech savvy customers. Something that I'm not when it comes to routing and command line. I've got a very lean fast growing company. I have over a dozen brands of hardware deployed. They all do things differently. I have long ago given up on trying to memorize all of this crap. If it's not completely self explanatory (like 802.1d bridging actually turning on bridging) I don't have time to play with the gear. It doesn't really matter how good it is. For the record I've got the same bitch with MT. I can do a little bit more with them because they at least have a decent gui. But most of what I do with them is due to Butch's help. He's great but having to hire him all of the time raises the cost of the gear by a lot. All because I don't have the option of a Linksys simple setup option Dumb. Very dumb. Alvarion has work to do too. They use strange names for functions. Don't give typical levels as examples right in the software. I mean really, how am I supposed to know if 10, 1000 or -50 is a good number to try for interference mitigation? And which settings would I tweak for which things? Who the heck has time to read yet another 150+++ page manual? Put the basics right in the software! sigh marlon - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been around since Adam met Eve. The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty good documentation. If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to know. Trick is first searching
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
We started using OLSR a few months ago. Not for the redundant mesh back hauls, but rather the dynamic routing aspect of it. Friday I had to move a sub from one end of our network to an entirely different ap and segmant. All I had to do to make sure his ethernet port handed out the same public IP to him, was change the ip address and essid on his wan port and he was done. No having to add routes through to him. No removing old routes. Just worked when I turned on his radio. Eventually I will start playing connect the ap's for wireless redundancy. ralph wrote: Yes- I did look all through the forums first, and Tog's Wiki is really helpful too. We need the experts to continue populating some of the sparse areas and I will try to help as I become more familiar- 'specially if I get these working as mesh radios. I have considerable Tropos and Cisco outdoor mesh experience and am really hoping to find a poor man's mesh. I want to try some of the Ligo mesh too, but can't afford to buy it right now. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been around since Adam met Eve. The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty good documentation. If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to know. Trick is first searching the forums. Then there is Tog's WiKi that is pretty good. Tog has put a lot of time into the WiKi and helping others with their star stuff. One thing I might add, one reason it's hard to document star, it's always changing, and how do you document l7 filtering or isc dhcp easily? Fortunately Tog and a few other smart guys hang out there and try to offer their help when they can. Good luck Ralph. George ralph wrote: I just re-read it and need to clarify. I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never documented to only put an address on one interface. With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so you aren't inclined to make that mistake. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
as examples right in the software. I mean really, how am I supposed to know if 10, 1000 or -50 is a good number to try for interference mitigation? And which settings would I tweak for which things? Who the heck has time to read yet another 150+++ page manual? Put the basics right in the software! sigh marlon - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been around since Adam met Eve. The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty good documentation. If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to know. Trick is first searching the forums. Then there is Tog's WiKi that is pretty good. Tog has put a lot of time into the WiKi and helping others with their star stuff. One thing I might add, one reason it's hard to document star, it's always changing, and how do you document l7 filtering or isc dhcp easily? Fortunately Tog and a few other smart guys hang out there and try to offer their help when they can. Good luck Ralph. George ralph wrote: I just re-read it and need to clarify. I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never documented to only put an address on one interface. With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so you aren't inclined to make that mistake. - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Voip over Wireless
Steve What doesn't work with Vonage? Is it the quality of the call or the service itself? Maybe I can help abit. George Steve Barnes wrote: We are a small wisp and have been asked about VOIP and I am just starting to research it. Vonage has not worked on our network. What service is recommended by all of you that does not eat your networks alive with large packets and Keep alive. FYI, I am looking for a service not to build my own. Steve Barnes Executive Manager PCS-WIN RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service (765)584-2288 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] XR9 separation from other 2.4 stuff
If your using an XR9 then you won't be using channel 11. it's gonna be channel 4 through 7 in 5MHz incriments. So you will want to not use anything that overlaps those channels very much. Channel 6 will not be good, channel 11 and channel 1 will be fine. I Kurt Fankhauser wrote: So what you are saying is that if I have my 900mhz antenna on channel 11 (2.4 down-converting to 900) and then I have my 2.4AP on channel 1 that this is ok on the same board? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 4:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] XR9 separation from other 2.4 stuff Kurt Your just going to want to stay off the same channel as the xr9 and you will be ok. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: It is my understanding that the 900mhz cards are actually 2.4ghz with converters built in. So obviously putting a 900mhz card on the same board as a 2.4ghz card would be a bad idea. Now can I put them on the same tower? Lets say I put the 900mhz radio at the bottom and run some coax since 900mhz should have much less cable loss I should be able to do this. I'll leave the 2.4 stuff up top. But will the 900mhz antenna mounted in close proximity to the 2.4 antenna pick up the 2.4 and allow it to still cause interference to the radio below? Also would putting a 900mhz filter before the radio solve this? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT - Patrick has left Alvarion
Wow Patrick, After thinking about how to congratulate you on a long successful and distinguished career and to offer you some thanks for being part of the last 10 years, which indeed has been a very exciting ride. Here's what came to my mind: (Think baritone and skip the mushy stuff) Memries, Like the corners of my mind Misty water-colored memories Of the way we were Scattered pictures, Of the smiles we left behind Smiles we gave to one another For the way we were Can it be that it was all so simple then? Or has time re-written every line? If we had the chance to do it all again Tell me, would we? could we? Memries, may be beautiful and yet Whats too painful to remember We simply choose to forget So its the laughter We will remember Whenever we remember... The way we were... The way we were... Patrick Leary wrote: Sorry for the OT post, but I wanted to inform the community that I have left Alvarion after 10 years. I have also moved back to Florida (Tampa area). I will be taking much of the summer off, but will then re-engage the industry as consultant. My company name will be Sageni. Sageni will focus on market insight strategy, technology regulatory consulting, marketing support research. In August I will formally launch the company and Web site www.sageni.com. I have high hopes and plans that WISPs will be important clients. It has been a fascinating and wild ten years. I hope the next ten are even better. If you would like to contact me, please use my new gmail address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] until I go live with Sageni. Warmly, Patrick Leary Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2012 - The End of the Internet
I don't know what to tell you Mark. I stay away from the political stuff on these industry lists because politics or the mere hint of it, gets some people inflamed. And we don't need people to be chased off because of heated discussions that offend. I'm sure you have that expression don't discuss religion, sex, or politics, There's a reason. It's not the time or place or most importantly, the right people to talk politics with. People here want to talk wireless and industry, etc. Politics does have an impact on our industry and we should be able to delve into that gently, if the temperament of the people involved allowed such sensitive talks. An example is the future of our industry under the left after the past 12 years of the right. Will it be good or bad? But this open list is not a good place to discuss it. It would turn into a brawl. I suppose if you want to get WISPA to do something for you or preferably with you, you need to: 1- buy a membership, it's doubtful you'll see any request from anyone who won't support WISPA with a paid membership get WISPA to spin it's wheels. 2- Gather support for such action that you think is beneficial to the wisp industry. 3- Once you have a fair amount of support, lobby the board to take action or to set up a committee that can decide what action to take. I like committees. I created a couple of them here and think if a group of members want to create a committee to discuss some action or ideas, I'm all for it. Aside from that, the wispa people are already busy on their various committees. Other people are going to have to step up. You too Mark. George [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is really confusing, George. WISPA's self described job is to lobby the FCC and regulators. When it's suggested WISPA should provide statements in opposition to bad things they want to do, you say it's politics. If it's politics to say that this industry should defend itself from excess regulation, it's politics to do the reverse. I am NOT being partisan. I have NOT been partisan. I have not discussed anything but the dollar and hour impacts of regulatory misbehavior... Why is that politics and yet trading our compliance for never to arrive favors in the future is not? Frankly, the latter is absolutely futile butt kissing, and the former is the only productive thing we can do when talking to DC. So, why is it poltics to state that excess regulation will hurt us... And NOT politics to insist we play footsies with the regulators? Of the few possible things that WISPA can actually DO in Washington DC, it COULD act as our defense from runamok and overreaching beaurocrats, but somehow that's a forbidden notion.But going and pretending that all this playing nice by rolling over and playing like we're worms on boiling hot pavement is going to get us antyhing but dead is ... not? insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: George [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2012 - The End of the Internet Nobody ever rips you here Mark. Point is, generally speaking politics is a taboo subject on these various lists. I'm sure there are peple that agree with you and disagree on these lists, but most don't respond because we know what will happen. To bad you don't have a politics list somewhere that you can get people to discuss politics with. Maybe you can start your own list serve for those that want to hash out politics. Seriously, nobody is ripping you, certainly not wispa. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guess who doesn't really believe in Free Speech. I get ripped here endlessly because I talk about how WE should stand up for responsibility, our own economic and business liberty and here's a good example. Shall WISPA, et al, write position papers on how to block usenet groups, or should we publicly state that we still ACTUALLY believe in our form of govenrment and demand our Constitution remain in effect? When did running a business prevent us from being citizens, interested in our rights and freedoms? insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Victoria Proffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2012 - The End of the Internet Personally I think we are coming into some scary times. *The state of New York is now blocking Usenet Groups*: 6/10/08 http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9964895-38.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] alternative to Barracuda
Frank Muto wrote: Don't get me wrong, Barracuda makes a fine appliance and comparing them to a hosted solution with far greater processing power, 7 global data centers and 14 redundant systems, now with the strength of Google's cash and server farms, is two different things. Frank Your right. Postini is the way to go. I use an older hosted spam service thats not a member of wispa and I'm not going to mention their name. Membership has priveledge The benefit of the hosted spam filtering solution is keeping everything off your network and not having to handle that expense of server administration, maintenamce, and replacement. IIt sound expensive when we started, but in all actuallity, it's saved us thousands every year. I'm not paying for the spammers bandwidth either George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Any thoughts on a decent cache server
The people that we had the most problems with were web designers who's sites were cached and they couldn't easily see their changes. We always told then to add no cache to their sites. But still it's a phone call and a discussion. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I call that 1% the high-maintenance customers . Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bo Ring Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Any thoughts on a decent cache server When I was an ISP, that 1% got me in real trouble. They scream loudly. On Jul 10, 2008, at 3:03 PM, David E. Smith wrote: Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: So is it safer/better to avoid caching servers altogether? About 99% of your users won't notice, or know, or care, that you've got anything like that in your network. The savings in bandwidth (and, to a lesser extent, money not spent on bandwidth) can help you out of a tight spot. Just be aware that the last 1% of customers can get you into trouble. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Any thoughts on a decent cache server
Shift R means it won't take it from your computers cache. But it still going to hit your caching server. Your right Marlon those cobalt servers were pretty cool. Sun bought them didn't they? George Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Don't know. It was a specific tip from the folks that made my cache. Don't know if it works on others. Caching is on my short list of network upgrades to do. The bigger the network is the more good it does. marlon - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Any thoughts on a decent cache server use the shift, refresh trick. That was a helpful tip. Is that just an IE6 thing? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Any thoughts on a decent cache server When we had that trouble we just had to teach them to use the shift, refresh trick. forced the cache to load the new page now instead of when it normally would have. No trouble with them after that. marlon - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Any thoughts on a decent cache server The people that we had the most problems with were web designers who's sites were cached and they couldn't easily see their changes. We always told then to add no cache to their sites. But still it's a phone call and a discussion. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I call that 1% the high-maintenance customers . Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bo Ring Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Any thoughts on a decent cache server When I was an ISP, that 1% got me in real trouble. They scream loudly. On Jul 10, 2008, at 3:03 PM, David E. Smith wrote: Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: So is it safer/better to avoid caching servers altogether? About 99% of your users won't notice, or know, or care, that you've got anything like that in your network. The savings in bandwidth (and, to a lesser extent, money not spent on bandwidth) can help you out of a tight spot. Just be aware that the last 1% of customers can get you into trouble. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Any thoughts on a decent cache server
I've been watching the internet tv for the past 9 months. CNN, FOX, NBC, etc all have their news online. It would be great if those were cachable. Just like on tv a lot of the news bits are over and over again and why should we have to keep paying each view. The content providers like akamai, etc are valuable at this point. Dennis Burgess wrote: MTs implementation is very simple. Not a whole lot to configure, but thats what is great about it. Also, if your network is moving 250 gig every 4 hours, that don't mean everything will be cached. ie. CNN has a cache time of 0, so it won't be cached anyways. -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, Are you somehow redirecting traffic to the MT box, or having all the traffic go through the box? Cache hit rates are going to depend on the size of the network... a 250GB drive would only cache about 4 hours of http traffic on my network... hit rates would be less than 5% I would guess. I've also heard MT doesn't work very well doing caching. Has this changed since v3 was released? Travis Microserv Dennis Burgess wrote: You can do this as well with Mikrotik. MT is very, very simple. We have seen avg savings of between 20-40%. With 25-30% being avg. Also, you can specify what sites you want to cache, typically done by IP, but you could also say that you only want to cache sites that are on different areas etc if you got the IP ranges that you wanted to use. Something else, is that you can specify a bit for the cache hit data. This means, you can throttle data that comes from your cache differently than the customers standard package! So, data that comes from your cache, maybe goes at full wireless speed etc. We usually drop in either a 80 gig or 250 gig SATA2 drive into our PoweRouter 732s. If they have a large customer base, we drop in 2 gig of ram just to be on the safe side. -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* David E. Smith wrote: What I'd LOVE to figure out how to set up is a spoke and hub cache system. Squid (and probably other caches) support something similar, in the form of parent and child caches. It sorta works backwards from what you described, but the net benefit would be similar. Basically, you set up caches at your POP locations, each of which is configured to use a bigger cache in your NOC as their parent cache. (Of course, you have to set up suitable firewalling at every tower, to redirect traffic from that POP's customers to the local cache.) Customer types in ebay.com, goes to their local cache. If the information they want isn't there, that cache checks with the big cache in your NOC. If it also doesn't have that page, it fetches it from the public Internet, and passes it on down. It's not a push system, but that's probably alright. I'm not sure how well a push system would work anyway. Anything like, say, the monthly crop of Windows Update downloads, they'd get spread out to the individual caches quickly enough anyway. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
It wouldn't happen to be this one: http://www.samsung.com/Products/ProAV/Plasmas/PPM50M5HBXXAA.asp?page=Specifications I was thinking of buying this last year. Held off looking for lower pricing, so I can buy 2. George Rich Comroe wrote: I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Yeah, but ... My living room big picture that I watch from my easy chair happens to be my PC video server, not a TV. It's been over a year since I used a TV (which I define as a display box with a TV tuner built in). The living room PC has a couple TV tuner cards, Internet connection, and drives a big 48 display. Watch cable, programs previously recorded to disk (BeyondTV software is great with a half-terabyte drives), or Internet content. There's never even been a keyboard on this machine. If I wanna navigate there's a wireless mouse that sits on the hassock next to the tuner card remote controls. If I really need to type, I have to use a laptop with VNC. Essentially a TIVO on steroids. It's geek heaven! Secondly, if we are talking about IPTV bandwidth needs, we need to forecast that a 1.25Mbps sustained stream is necessary for one stream. Yeah, but ... Location Free, Slingbox, etc., do quite nicely on much much less BW. Is IPTV really that much of a hog that it needs 1.25Mbps? How could it possibly compete against products out there already that use only a tenth of this BW? Rich - Original Message - From: George Rogato To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Nice easy reading here. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 Looks like the trend is towards video on demand. Here's a link: http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/4 We have a long way to go before this stuff is mainstream for sure. But there is a convergence happening. I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Travis Johnson wrote: I can say that I have always been a gadget freak. I almost always have the newest toys (cell phones, laptops, two-way radios, etc.) and I usually play with them for a few months, and then put them on ebay. I am a technology freak. I love new things (like our newest toy, an 18ghz Dragonwave AirPair100). Call me what you will, but I like new technology. However, I can also tell you that I have a regular POTS line at home (pay $35/mo for all features like vmail, call waiting, etc.) and I also have DISH network at home. I would never consider using an internet connection for TV... EVER. VoIP works for some people (I can always tell when I'm talking to someone on a VoIP phone), but I can never see using my internet connection for TV... here are a few reasons: (1) The internet is very unstable. When people want to watch TV, they don't want excuses on why it's not working. Imagine the calls you would get when a person's internet, telephone and TV are all down because one of their PC's is infected with the latest virus or spyware. (2) I like having things seperate. Seperate bills is a slight issue, but with automatic billing now, it all comes out of the checking account automatically anyway. (3) I'm not tied to a single provider. If I want to switch my phone service or TV service to something different, I can. (4) With the free DVR's and 4 rooms hooked up for free from DISH and only $29.99 per month for 60+ channels, who is going to compete with that? How can anyone provide a sustained 4-6Mbps for up to 4 TV's to _every_ subscriber across their network (including the cableco or telco's). Even in a small town (say 5,000 population), if the cable company had 500 customers, that would be up to 1Gbps of bandwidth needed (50% utilization of the 500 subs). There is nobody that can support that right now... or even 3-5 years from now. Before everyone gets too excited about IPTV, we need to look at reality. Sure companies like Verizon are doing fiber to the house... we will never compete with that... but why try? We will never dominate our region... instead, we are happy to pick up the customers that are unhappy with the telco or cableco or other wireless provider and want internet that just works. That's what we do. Internet. That works. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: sigh having no viable options vs. having one's head buried in the sand are two totally different things. Boy I'm getting tired of being insulted for having a successful business! marlon - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Right, I was just reading this a couple days ago. It did not look good for the future of network based dvr and it sounded like it had implications for anyone wanting to cache primetime tv. David Hughes wrote: One of the major cable systems just lost that fight. The studios and networks filed suit and won on the issue of copyright infringmement. Dave David T. Hughes Director, Corporate Communications Roadstar Internet 604 South King Street -Suite 200 Leesburg, VA 20175 -HOME OF INET LOUDOUN- Office - (703) 234-9969 Direct - (703) 953-1645 Cell -(703) 587-3282 Corporate Offices - (703) 554-6621 Fax - (703) 258-0003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: dhughes248 - Video conference capable -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Peter, do you have much information on Network DVR (like the term). I would think that if you could get DR owners to agreee to Network DVR it would just be a small jump to real VOD. But then again, I still struggle with the concept of them bitching about people copying stuff that they broadcast freely over the air... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Peter R. wrote: Remember that like the term wireless, iptv has way too many meanings. IPTV to the telcos is TV to the cablecos. By saying IPTV, they figure they get around a lot of stuff and make it sound better than broadcast TV. Broadcast TV isn't much of a bandwidth problem - they do it fine today. TV over the internet will take time since most people don't want to watch TV on a laptop or PC. Until the Converged Living Room becomes mainstream, bandwidth won't be a huge problem. VOD (video on demand) is being confused with Network DVR. Instead of home DVR, it will be at the NOC. Maybe the way hotel on-demand is. That's what the content companies want. We'll see. Even DISH promises Caller ID on the TV screen, but that isn't IPTV. Just some thoughts this morning. Peter -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA compliance methods
I bet the technical aspects of how to comply will be emerging soon. I understand the wispa calea meeting went very well. So there must be some good news. Adam Greene wrote: Hi, While I appreciate Mark's comments and point of view, I for one would like to also start looking for ways to possibly comply with CALEA in a cost-effective way. I'm afraid that if the conversation here is limited to whether we should comply or not, we might lose the opportunity to share with each other about technical implementation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the conversation about whether to comply should be halted, just that some room be given to those of us who also want to speak about implementation. I'm still interested if anyone has any point of view about any of the compliance methods that I discussed in my original post, from a technical standpoint. Thanks, Adam - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CALEA compliance methods On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:21:53 -0400, Peter R. wrote Mark, CALEA IS LAW. There are interpretations of that law, but they have been upheld by courts. YOu're arguing against things I'm not saying. CALEA is not the opinion of the DOJ or FCC. It is not far-reaching (like say the Patriot Act) or secret and possibly illegal like the NSA-ATT wiretapping / surveillance. The whole idea that WE are covered under CALEA is just FCC opinion, which is as changeable and variable as the wind. The ruling is capricious and founded on VAPOR, not substance. I just cannot believe you approve of unfunded federal mandates for public purposes. CALEA was not. Misapplying CALEA is. This is not OSHA mandates. This is not the same as requiring that a tower service company require their climbers to use a safety system. Not even close. If the federal government is justified with making us provide, AT OUR EXPENSE, law enforcement services, then we're one little itty bitty non- existent step from from being mandated to do ANYTHING they happen to wish for, and the wish lists from the swamp on the Potomac are so large they boggle the mind. And don't give me the we play dead for regulatory favors in the future crap. Nothing we do will buy us one MOMENT's worth of consideration, in EITHER direction. Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA compliance methods
not really interested in any other opinions and this whole link thing is futile. Below is a link to the latest report about CALEA and the reclassification of Wireless Providers as information services in case anyone is interested in reading. Page 18 and 19 make for some interesting reading. ;-) http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-30A1.pdf Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Wireless Credit Cards
Courtesy of ATT wireless. Just wave your cell phone at the cash register! What will they think of next? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Credit Cards
Imagine a hacker type that could just drive downtown Tokyo and charge everyones cell phone at the same time. I bet they could rack up so much money, they couldn't move it fast enough. Dawn DiPietro wrote: George, In Japan they have been doing this for quite awhile now. Regards, Dawn George Rogato wrote: Courtesy of ATT wireless. Just wave your cell phone at the cash register! What will they think of next? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA compliance methods
Clint Ricker wrote: Just as a general rule, CALEA monitoring is not something that you need to--or want to--do at each individual CPE or router. Wouldn't it be cool, and cheap, if it was just that easy? Here's your encrypted access to xxx customers radio / port, it's yours to monitor...? Maybe a CALEA button that we can turn on at will Somehow I doubt it will be this easy. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA compliance methods
Blair Davis wrote: Because at WISPA, we don't have to all think the same and have the same opinions all in step. We're not clones. We're individuals who each have our own beliefs and run our operation individually, sometimes uniquely And fortunately WISPA is an organization made up of individuals who do NOT want to make you think a certain way. WISPA doesn't want to run your business or tell you how to run your business. We're just working for the common ground that will benefit all wisps, not just some wisps. Another good thing is, with such as small membership, those who decide to participate can have an impact or effect. And as I understand it there is many openings on various committees. As for 477, CALEA, and certified equipment, that all came out of the FCC's horses mouths. All we can do is help people comply. But you don't see WISPA wanting to deny membership to those that does NOT comply. I Believe if WISPA was to go down the path of dictating what a wispa member was required to do, it would be wrong. We would loose our individualism and that won't teach us anything new. I've fought this thinking in the board room. We are not here to alienate each other but to find a common ground. If you have a real difference of opinion, rather than hold it against anyone or keep it to yourself, you should express your self and not hold it against anyone for disagreeing or having a different opinion. I think most people here are not going to loose their respect for each other over a difference of opinion. Anyways WISPA is an opportunity to participate. Two months ago, we were ready to join WISPA. At the time, I felt that WISPA had proven its longevity and was becoming a mature voice for the WISP's. But, after the form 477 issue, FCC sticker issue, and now the CALEA issue, I'm pretty sure that I disagree with the majority of the members on what stance should be taken on these issues. That being the case, why should I still join? -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA compliance methods
Sounds vagely familiar, Like I said, from my opinion, wispa would not be an industry association Remember once had a guy selling jock straps with the wispa logo thinking that was a good idea too. Blair Davis wrote: George As to form 477 and CALEA, no, no one has spoken of making membership contingent on their position on these issues. But, I do recall a discussion, on this list, 'Dealing with bad players', starting on Feb 8, that basically proposed requiring the use of stickered equipment to be a member. Not sure what became of it. George Rogato wrote: Blair Davis wrote: Because at WISPA, we don't have to all think the same and have the same opinions all in step. We're not clones. We're individuals who each have our own beliefs and run our operation individually, sometimes uniquely And fortunately WISPA is an organization made up of individuals who do NOT want to make you think a certain way. WISPA doesn't want to run your business or tell you how to run your business. We're just working for the common ground that will benefit all wisps, not just some wisps. Another good thing is, with such as small membership, those who decide to participate can have an impact or effect. And as I understand it there is many openings on various committees. As for 477, CALEA, and certified equipment, that all came out of the FCC's horses mouths. All we can do is help people comply. But you don't see WISPA wanting to deny membership to those that does NOT comply. I Believe if WISPA was to go down the path of dictating what a wispa member was required to do, it would be wrong. We would loose our individualism and that won't teach us anything new. I've fought this thinking in the board room. We are not here to alienate each other but to find a common ground. If you have a real difference of opinion, rather than hold it against anyone or keep it to yourself, you should express your self and not hold it against anyone for disagreeing or having a different opinion. I think most people here are not going to loose their respect for each other over a difference of opinion. Anyways WISPA is an opportunity to participate. Two months ago, we were ready to join WISPA. At the time, I felt that WISPA had proven its longevity and was becoming a mature voice for the WISP's. But, after the form 477 issue, FCC sticker issue, and now the CALEA issue, I'm pretty sure that I disagree with the majority of the members on what stance should be taken on these issues. That being the case, why should I still join? -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intel Announces Tremendous Breakthrough
I think you missed the technology. They weren't talking about just repeaters, they were talking about making a radio talk to just one other radio at a time through a beam pointed only at that customer radio and no body else's. I think they were talking Vivato or Navini with their beam forming smart antenna polling system. Do we hear patent infringement lawsuits here? Rick Smith wrote: yeah, I was reading this article, and I believe it to be FUD. They were bragging about the ability to backhaul wirelessly between towers...whoopee... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:03 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Intel Announces Tremendous Breakthrough ...one of the big differences between standard Wi-Fi and Intel's long-range version lies in the fact that the long-range signals are directional: they are tuned to travel from one antenna to another one and nowhere else. A standard Wi-Fi antenna broadcasts its signal in a 360-degree circle... http://news.com.com/Intel+modifies+Wi-Fi+to+add+mileage/2100-7351_3-6170713. html http://news.com.com/5208-7351_3-0.html?forumID=1threadID=26098messageID=25 1455start=-1 -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA compliance methods
Mark, Right in time. WISPA will be having elections in the very near future. Now is the time to join WISPA and be eligible to cast your vote or run for a board seat. Membership is a very low 250.00 per year. And you get to vote! Try the new automated sign up: http://signup.wispa.org/wispa-newacct.html :) wispa wrote: . WISPA will have regular elections to choose leadership. However, the leadership in place is in place, and will be a for a while yet. Unless we're arguing to remove leadership, which I think would be a terrible blow, an extremely divisive action, the idea is that we have to work with the leadership that exists as of right now. Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC requests .. Bob M. what about FSO
Hey Bob M. Seeing your on list and talking about short PtP sots. What do you think about FSO, Plaintree? Have you installed much and do you like? I'm thinking that I might have to go that way and figured you could advise. George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] US 'no longer technology king'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6502725.stm Nordic crown Denmark is now regarded as the world leader in technological innovation and application, with its Nordic neighbours Sweden, Finland and Norway claiming second, fourth and 10th place respectively. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] McCaw losing money?
I think it's the money raised from the sale of stock. Because if the 180 doesn't leave any profit, what about all the radio and tv advertizing they do? Travis Johnson wrote: That's what I meant... back when he did cellular, people were more locked in to their cell numbers... so even outside of contract, most people didn't want to give up their number... but things are different now with cell stuff... it's much closer to how internet access is now... that's what I was saying... He may have done well in the cell business 4 years ago, but the internet business is much different. People switch providers all the time. To pay someone $180 for a customer signup seems foolish. $30/month x 12 months = $360. and he is giving away half of that right to start with... so that customer just became a $15/month customer... that you also had to provide equipment for ($5/month), bandwidth, support, etc. for $10/month. Maybe he's using the same mind-set that one of my competitors was using a few years ago (they are out of business now)... we'll make it up on quantity. :) Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: Well yeah, he exited the cell biz bout 4 years ago .., and theres no Num portability with internet Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] McCaw losing money? The cellular business was different 2-3 years ago... before number portability... Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: Hes basically emulating the Cellular Biz ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] McCaw losing money? Smart people sometimes do foolish things. However, he isnt the dumbest guy in the world either. So what is his bet? Why would a guy who cut his teeth in cellular come out so hard against the cell carriers with a new wireless product? chris Quoting Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : Just a little bit! I was just talking to a local PC reseller and I asked him what ClearWire gave him when he signed up a new customer. 180 bucks! Per sub! It is normally 80 bucks per sub but when he reaches a certain threshold, he gets 180. So what does the next-net equipment cost? and then bandwidth and then tower leases and then spiffs for your resellers WOW! ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Phone Cos Eye Largest US Government Telecom Contract Ever
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/22625.php Four major telephone companies are eagerly eyeing a long-term government contract worth as much as US$48 billion, making it the largest telecom contract ever. The GSA's Networx Universal program will give the winning companies a 10-year contract to provide telecommunications and networking services such as voice, video and data to all federal agencies. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tropos
http://www.adiengineering.com/php-bin/ecomm4/productDisplay.php?category_id=31product_id=81 Now you see why we like to roll our own. Peter R. wrote: Meanwhile, mesh WiFi vendor Tropos, which supplies EarthLink Inc. with municipal kit, has unveiled a new citywide networking system that can support a number of different radio types -- from 802.11, to WiMax and 4.9GHz public safety systems. Tropos has been working on a multi-radio, multi-mode system for a while. Unstrung first heard about such a product back in July 2006. (See Mesh Mash-Up.) Such a system would allow operators to more easily support public and private access over one platform; as well as possibly providing different levels of speeds and services via WiFi and WiMax. http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=120432 -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] McCaw losing money?
Travis Johnson wrote: I agree with almost everything you said... except the triple play revenue... Qwest is doing a triple play system (Qwest DSL, Qwest VoIP and DirecTV) for $99 per month with $0 install. Also, I don't have a problem with 30-50 year ROI for fiber... but ClearWire is wireless... all the equipment will have to swapped out in 5 years. Travis Microserv Qwest is finally doing better. More dsl revenue. But I wonder what the 99.00 doesn't include and how much the total package costs, with extra charges. They never tell the total price, they just quote a unit price. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Phone deal goes to Qwest, ATT, Verizon
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070329/ap_on_bi_ge/telecom_contract;_ylt=Ah3Q.tj.l235OOssbNwlDBF34T0D Qwest Communications International Inc., ATT Inc. and Verizon Inc. on Thursday were awarded the government's largest telecommunications contract ever, a 10-year deal worth up to $48 billion. I bet they get CALEA reimbursement. George Rogato wrote: http://www.cellular-news.com/story/22625.php Four major telephone companies are eagerly eyeing a long-term government contract worth as much as US$48 billion, making it the largest telecom contract ever. The GSA's Networx Universal program will give the winning companies a 10-year contract to provide telecommunications and networking services such as voice, video and data to all federal agencies. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Atlanta Police and One Ring Networks Team Up To Fight Crime the Hi-tech Way
2 questions Matt. What cameras are you using. and How did you become one of the largest wireless providers in the nation? Matt Liotta wrote: Atlanta Police and One Ring Networks Team Up To Fight Crime the Hi-tech Way Next Generation Wireless Technology Puts Eyes on Mean Streets ATLANTA (March 28, 2007) – It’s the intersection of cutting-edge technology and the desire to reduce crime in Atlanta that brought together Atlanta Police and wireless network provider One Ring Networks. Today the Atlanta Police Foundation hosted a press conference to announce the deployment of surveillance cameras throughout downtown to better monitor high-crime areas and provide quicker response. “The surveillance program is made possible by relatively new wireless technology that provides high bandwidth communications beyond what copper-based services offer and at a much lower cost,” said Matt Liotta, CEO of One Ring Networks. “Fixed wireless communications affords the ability to relay video images from cameras in awkward places where traditional broadband carriers can’t reach. That video feed is then routed back to monitors observed by Atlanta Police.” There are now approximately 12 video cameras in place throughout downtown to help Atlanta Police and better monitor the most dangerous areas of the city. The cameras have already played a major role in reducing crime. About One Ring Networks One Ring Networks operates one of the largest hybrid fiber-fixed wireless networks in the United States and is one of the few carriers offering end-to-end telecommunications and networking services without relying on other companies’ networks. Over its next generation network, One Ring offers high-speed data services, feature-rich IP phone services, IP telephony infrastructure, integration and management, and network monitoring and management. For more information, go to www.oneringnetworks.com. ### -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] McCaw losing money?
Alan Cain wrote: And quoting unit prices is fully effective enough. One of my POPs has gone from 20 customers to 1 customer, as Qwest has aggressively targeted the area with phone calls to each (!) of my customers 4, 5 and 6 times a week, offering 1.7 Mbps service for 37.50/month. The contract is vaguely and worded in very fine print so no one gets that it is an introductory price, with miscellaneous services and taxes extra. Many will probably rue the day, but I can't hold on to that POP with one customer. And how the heck did they get so specific on the customer list? Do they offer a cut to judas goats? They do the same thing around here. What speeds and price were you offering that they picked of most of your subs? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] hotspot
Ralph wrote: Hi Clint- There's another certification involved. Not just Part 15 for intentional radiators, which is what the radio cards have to follow. The one I am talking about is a different part of Part 15: Computing Devices. The one where things are classified as Class A or B computing devices. Mikrotik hasn't even had their boards tested or certified under this part. Maybe they have a loophole in that they don't actually sell it in a case. But whoever puts it in that case needs to have it tested if they are selling it. Your on the money Ralph. Fact is the software people have not been taking certification into consideration. Nobody has been doing anything about this. So they don't have any reason to. I think that times are changing and I'm pretty certain we will start to see certification happening more often. Some of the newer boards hitting the streets, ie: http://www.adiengineering.com/php-bin/ecomm4/productDisplay.php?category_id=31product_id=81 have been noise certified and the other good news is, some of the cards are being certified. Soon enough we'll see products coming from various resellers that are certified. We are slowly moving forward. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why Customers leave
Thats a good list Peter. My broadband churn is almost 100% people dying and moving. I think it's like 2:1 moving over dying, Thank god the housing market is in the toilet. Every week I open the newspaper and see which of my customers passed away. This week I lost 2. One a broadband sub and the other a dial up sub. Aside from the fact that they are no longer paying me, it's sad to watch one's life end so suddenly. Peter R. wrote: Why do customers leave? * 1% die * 3% move * 5% develop other relationships * 9% competitive reasons * 14% product dissatisfaction * 68% perceived indifference by a representative of your firm Source: U.S. News and World Report What to do about it? http://www.rad-info.net/whyleave.htm -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] McCaw losing money?
Alan Cain wrote: What speeds and price were you offering that they picked of most of your subs? 40.00 per month, 3 Mbps (actual). And we do offer hand holding, antivirus filtering, spam filtering and usually free truck rolls for problems (we only charge for the most clearly definable not our fault issues, such as computer repairs). We pride ourselves on customer service. Every one of the departing has said so sorry to go - loved your service. Boils down to perfect service and perceived lowest price. Same thing I do here. Customer service is everything. Probably one reason we have not took a bath since both DSL and Cable turned on years ago. We get quite a few conversions from cable and dsl to us, and that always makes me happy. Although we do loose a few to them as well. The majority of the time we loose to a dsl sub, it's price and it's usually misinformed price. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless ISP's
Where did you hear this Matt? Matt wrote: I was just wandering. I have heard that wireless ISP's are on the decline and most of the ones that remain are selling out or just holding there own. Is that true? I heard there were not as many at the last wispcon due to that. Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] McCaw losing money?
Marlon K. Schafer wrote: They call EVERY number in that area Not just your customers. This simply shows the level of desperation that they have. I don't see it as desperation. I see it as aggressive marketing. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Vongo
http://www.vongo.com./ Weren't we just talking about internet tv or iptv? Here's 10.00 per month, download movies and watch them on the go! Just seen a tv commercial for this. Must be getting mainstream. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless ISP's
Matt wrote: No I did not. I heard it from another wisp. I actually wanted to go in the worst way but was way to busy. Matt Bullit sent WISPA over 5 free passes. We offered them around, not sure if they all went or not. I think what was heard the most was, I would go if I had time, I know that was why I didn't go. I think there are more wisps today than yesterday. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] one-third of U.S. households havenoInternet...and donotplan to get it
Jeff Broadwick wrote: Personally, I think there are certain people who should NOT be allowed to have internet access! People who Yeah, people who don't pay their bills! -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Is your ISP worth more than 1.2x ?
Speakeasy went for 1.2x annual revenue. What is a smaller isp worth? http://www.speakeasy.net/press/pr/pr032707.php Best Buy anticipates a closing date for the transaction in the first quarter of its 2008 fiscal year. Following the close, Speakeasy would operate as a wholly owned subsidiary of Best Buy. The company disclosed the purchase price of approximately $97 million, which represents approximately 1.2 times Speakeasy's calendar year 2006 revenue of $80 million. Best Buy currently expects the transaction to be neutral to fiscal 2008 earnings. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
We are just in the early stages of doing a group effort. The reason why these guys don't is kind of shallow in some respects. They need to certify it so they can build a complete solution. Once they sell a kit and we change things around and build it ourselves, it's no longer that certified system. But the previous certs can be used to lessen the cost of a new certification, is the original certifier allows this. Peter R. wrote: Then, he asked simply, why don't they just get their gear certified? Mac Dearman wrote: Getting MT or StarOS FCC certified would never make the prices soar to $1k each :-) Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans Honestly, Would you buy RB112/532/whatever boards if they cost $1k vs $100 each? -Charles -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Uh-Oh more 900MHz interference on it's way.....
Now this is from a company that wants to use 900MHz to transmit power to charge small devices, cell phones, etc. The technology works and they have a patent. Startup Beams Wireless Power to Charge Devices Powercast, a new Pennsylvania-based startup says its solution for wireless power harvesting is not only reliable, FCC-approved, and safe, but is also ready to debut in millions of small devices by the end of 2008, The Powercast solution is able to maximize power transfer by using a much broader area of the RF spectrum, the 900-MHz band. http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20070402/tc_zd/204445;_ylt=Au07BVlpf1245VJnRa4CavuSxLEF -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Thats the way I see it David. I can do things most other wireless manufacturers 'won't (networking features at the AP or CPE). The future of wireless is mesh or mesh type topographies. (OLSR/OSPF) Even of I used a boxed bridged solution of very high quality such as Alvarion, Trango, Moto, etc, I would still have to buy a router-wireless soultion for the router and diversity customer delivery. Why bother with the boxed bridge solution in the first place? The hardware we choose is whats the best at the time for the software. And it gets better and better all the time. David Sovereen wrote: I disagree completely. The choice to use MT or StarOS has nothing to do with the hardware. My decision to use MT was entirely based on the software features. Some of my MTs run on Routerboards, others do not. If the Routerboard hardware meets my needs at a price I like, I use it. If it doesn't, I use something else. But I always use MT :-) Dave - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans ... Mikrotik, StarOS, etc. are selling because of price. The extra features are just a bonus. :) ... -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] the straight scoop on CALEA
We need more help on the fcc committee. Dawn DiPietro wrote: Marlon, I am not on the WISPA FCC Committee and this should have been done before it got posted to the list to begin with. Either this committee has the time to do the job right or not at all. If something is done half assed then it will show in the finished product. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Grin. As well as we can with the time available. If you see things that need to be fixed, please let us know. thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 3:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] the straight scoop on CALEA Marlon, I do hope it was proofread and edited before it was posted to the website. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I've asked that it be posted to the FCC committee part of the wispa site. When I get a link I'll pass it along. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Adam Greene [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] the straight scoop on CALEA Marlon, All I can say is, this is great. Thanks so much to you guys (and gal) for doing this work. For me, this CALEA safe harbor work you are doing alone makes me feel justified in paying to be a member of WISPA. I probably would not even have become conscious in a serious way of CALEA without the help of WISPA. I expect our dues don't even cover your expenses for this work, so all I can say is thanks. Question: have you considered posting this document on the WISPA website so that we can publish links to it? For example, I'd like to share this info with opencalea.org mailing list; I think it would benefit them and the larger community. Also thanks to Clint for his recent posts, in particular the contact info of the fellow at the FBI who we can work with to test our compliance. Best regards, Adam --- Adam Greene VP, Operations Webjogger Internet Services http://www.webjogger.net (845) 757-4000 x134 - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: [WISPA] the straight scoop on CALEA Hi All, As many of you know, WISPA sent a team to Quantico to talk to the FBI's CALEA team first hand. We went down with a compilation of most of the questions that people had asked on all of the lists we could find. Here are the main questions and answers as worked out between WISPs and the FBI's CALEA team. As you can see, there is NO reason to panic. There is NO data storage requirement other than what's needed to deal with the specific warrant. There is no requirement to use an expensive TTP solution etc. Heck, they won't even toss you in jail for that free open hotspot you have! I hope people sleep better after having read this. Special thanks to Mike, Eric, Martha, Brent and Marty for all of the hours and hours and hours that they have put into this doc. Not to mention the money and time they put into the trip to Virginia! Great job guys (and gal), many many thanks. The deadline to be compliant is coming up in May. There are a couple of mechanisms that look like they'll allow you guys to be compliant very quickly and without going broke in the process. Image Stream has been deeply involved with this and a couple of other efforts that WISPA is working on in regards to CALEA. As is Butch Evens. Both have solutions that should work for folks if you get a warrant issued before the rest of the things we're working on are finished up. I'll release more info on what we're doing at the association level as soon as I can. Please know though, we have some very bright people deeply involved in things related to CALEA and it's impact on our businesses. The next phases will take several months though. Sincerely, Marlon K. Schafer FCC Committee Chairman www.wispa.org -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] the straight scoop on CALEA
Dawn DiPietro wrote: George, Sign me up and I will help where I can. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Anyone who has interest in the fcc committee has to go through Marlon who chairs that committee. Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) 42846865 (icq) [EMAIL PROTECTED] George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VZ tech Support $10 per month
I like this a lot. Peter R. wrote: Verizon Launches 'Premium' Tech Support - $10 monthly fee nets DSL customers unlimited phone support, Broadband Reports, 4/3/2007 Verizon has announced a new Premium technical support service for DSL customers. For a $9.99 monthly fee, Verizon customers get access to unlimited phone support for not only their DSL connection, but also for hardware, software and networking... http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/82738 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] the straight scoop on CALEA
Marlon is a good guy. Does a nice job with the fcc stuff with the limited help he can get. I think his only concerns with the fcc committee is probably making sure the members actually have knowledge that they can contribute, rather than a venting list. Anyone who has interest, just get with Marlon and he'll talk to you about it. Dawn DiPietro wrote: Oh great...now you tell me. ;-) George Rogato wrote: Dawn DiPietro wrote: George, Sign me up and I will help where I can. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Anyone who has interest in the fcc committee has to go through Marlon who chairs that committee. Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) 42846865 (icq) [EMAIL PROTECTED] George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VZ tech Support $10 per month
I will do that as soon as Qwest does it. Peter R. wrote: Great opportunity to remind your customers** that you do not nickel and dime them. ** Remember how we spoke about staying in front of customers so that they do not feel ignored? When was the last time you sent them a reminder to update Windows or Virus software? -- Peter George Rogato wrote: I like this a lot. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] ESSID : Free Public WiFi
Anyone see ESSID : Free Public WiFi popping up in your XP laptop in ad hoc mode? I was surprised today when I got three diferent ESSID : Free Public WiFi at the same time and one was on channel 56! It was out in the middle of nowhere. I've recently started seeing them around, but not in the middle of the woods. Googled ESSID : Free Public WiFi and got this: http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2006/09/free_public_wif.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ESSID : Free Public WiFi
Here's the proof: http://www.oregonfast.net/gofast/FREE_PUBLIC_WIFI/ I seen this a couple months ago downtown, must have been like a dozen of them in stumbler along with another dozen real ones. I didn't know what to make of it and figured when I got more time I'd dig into seeing what was going on. I actually provide free open public wifi in the area I was seeing all these essid's. And then Monday next to one of my pops, I was thinking maybe it was in a home around it, but I have every customer there and I set them all up and it didn't make any sense. So then just this afternoon out in the middle of nowhere this pops up. First there is one and then another and then all 3 same same time. Jonathan Schmidt wrote: This sure sounds like an urban myth. Maybe? Maybe not? I've got a bunch of laptops in my house...most just sitting on my security cams or playing Radio Bartok. When I bring one up, I see only my own SSID and a couple of my neighbors but not Free Public Wi-FI. Certainly, none have ever been visible from another. Come to think of it, I should hide my SSID...thanks. However, I have seen variants of that name as an occasional ad-hoc computer-to-computer SSID in my travels but haven't seen anything resembling the levels reflected in the newspaper blog. During conferences, such as MuniWireless last month, there were typically 100++ laptops in each conference room all locked on to either the hotel Wi-Fi or the conference-provided Wi-Fi and that name didn't show up. And, from my office, there are about 20 SSIDs visible, about 1/3 unsecured, and none with that name. If there is something weakly resembling the phenomenon related in the linked blog, wouldn't it have become more well known? But, perhaps?let's see if anyone can track it down. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 8:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] ESSID : Free Public WiFi Anyone see ESSID : Free Public WiFi popping up in your XP laptop in ad hoc mode? I was surprised today when I got three diferent ESSID : Free Public WiFi at the same time and one was on channel 56! It was out in the middle of nowhere. I've recently started seeing them around, but not in the middle of the woods. Googled ESSID : Free Public WiFi and got this: http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2006/09/free_public_wif.html -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] the straight scoop on CALEA
Dawn DiPietro wrote: Scriv, The only document I saw was the word doc named wispa calea fbi q and a which was posted to the public list on March 31. If there has been work done on it since then the public list did not get a chance to see it. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Thats right Dawn, the public list is the one with the least of the privileges. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] the straight scoop on CALEA
membership has it's privileges! :) :) :) George Rogato wrote: Dawn DiPietro wrote: Scriv, The only document I saw was the word doc named wispa calea fbi q and a which was posted to the public list on March 31. If there has been work done on it since then the public list did not get a chance to see it. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Thats right Dawn, the public list is the one with the least of the privileges. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] NO new customers for VONAGE
Yipes! this is going to really hurt. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070406/ap_on_hi_te/vonage_verizon_suit I wonder what this means for the rest of the voip industry... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant
However, Am I the only person in WISPA who disapproves of this 'STUFF'. This is the way Saudi Arabia is run, and that's a total police state. I know, I spent three years there. Are we just supposed to just swallow whatever the Bureaucrats 'shovel' our way? Man, this scares the bejesus out of me. ARGGG! Ron Wallace In WISPA's efforts to find a way to help wisps become CALEA compliant with the least pain. It may sound like WISPA has endorsed the idea of spying, wiretaps, and or government intrusion into our networks. But thats not the situation. Actually, the WISPA board has NOT discussed this aspect of CALEA, only what are we going to do to get it so that wisps can afford to do this without having to spend $150,000.00 upfront plus, as we've all read in the CALEA documents. Our only goal is to ease the cost of the pain. I won't get into the political aspects of this stuff, but your not alone Ron. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How many of you actually use your own service?
The most fun I have is using my own connection. I always want to make it better and drool over how fast it is. Sort of like a gear head of broadband But it doesn't really tell me how well the rest of the network is. For that we monitor the network to keep us posted of any issues, we use nagios, and we graph as much as possible to see high usage. And then to boot we are always connecting to our ap's to see what the performance is when we're out and about. I have wanted to buy charter and qwest connections, just to experience their network and see what the billing looks like. Only problem is, if I was to buy their services, they would start telling everyone I use their service and not mine. John Scrivner wrote: I was customer number 1 on my network. I still use my own connection to my home. One of my ex-employees used to tell me he liked the fact that I ate my own dogfood. I always thought that was a humorous metaphor. I think it is good to use your own service so you can see what the service is like for your customer. If it works well then chances are your customers are happy. If it stinks then maybe you need to make changes. Monitoring tools are a good indicator of where you need to work on things but nothing beats using it yourself in my opinion. Scriv Blair Davis wrote: Well, the reason I built my network was to GET an internet connection... Ryan Spott wrote: I always tell my clients that I use my own service and that I will usually know before they do that things are slow or not working because my family will call me MUCH faster than any client. This builds trust with my clients. ... Recently I was emailed by another WISP in my area and I noticed the CEO was NOT using his own serviceStrange So with all this being said, I was wondering... how many of you use your own service? ryan -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How many of you actually use your own service -- Part 2!
We've always given the service to our employees for free. But my employees are mostly all long term. Cliff Leboeuf wrote: Of you that have employees... 1. Do you 'require' that the use your service if available? 2. If so, how do you charge them for using your services? a. Those that are actively involved in maintaining your network... b. Those that are employees, but have no direct responsibility for the networks maintenance (clerical, sales, etc.) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 5:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How many of you actually use your own service? Most (if not all) of your employees should use your service as well. It's called drinking the kool-aid. FYI... Coke, Pepsi, Miller and Bud require that each employees' household only drink their kool-aid. In NC, a Coke driver was fired for having lunch at a restaurant that only sold Pepsi. In Tampa, a buddy used to work for the Miller distributor and his daughter left a 6 pack of Bud in the fridge - almost got him fired when some of the employees were over for a BBQ. You have to drink the punch in order to sell it effectively. Sales is about taking your enthusiasm or passion for the service and transferring it to th eprospect. Also, how can a skeptical prospect take your word for it when you don't drink from the punch bowl??? Regards, Peter Radizeski @ RAD-INFO, Inc. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How many of you actually use your own service -- Part 2!
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 2. If so, how do you charge them for using your services? mks: No, it's free to them. They have to buy their own radio but service is free to them. It's one of the bennies of working here. Other than working for me it's probably the only one :-) I make us all beta test new equipment. So they don't pay, they get to be guinea pigs. Although I've never put anything up that is not known to work already. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MuniFi: Build it and they stilldon't come?
Brad Belton wrote: Surely you don't see this as any kind of surprise? Like I've been saying all along, the Cellular guys will dominate the Mobile User market. Muni-Networks are, IMO, largely a get rich quick scheme for the few that are talented enough to sway overeager city counsels into writing big checks for a service nobody wants. It's all a feel good scam at the expense of the taxpayer. Best, Brad AMEN! Too bad the rest of the people don't yet understand this. Portland is not doing well either: Portland Wi-Fi Sucks Inside and Out, says independent evaluation March 29th 2007 11:51am http://www.wweek.com/wwire/?p=7518 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Vonage wins temporary reprieve against signing up new customers
Peter R. wrote: Turns out that VZ may not be the patent holder. Tom Keating has some interesting insight. And there is this patent: http://sabreean.com/?p=1421#more-1421 Yikes, Vonage gets whacked around from Verizon and what happens if it turns out Verizon is not the patent holder? -- WISPA Wireless List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Main Street USA
Chase Phillips wrote: I know we don't do QOS right now but we might soon. If that prioritization (based on packet TOS) makes sense for a lot of our customers, we might implement that feature sooner. Speaking of quality, Chase, what is your groups real world performance expectations noise, self interference, and speeds? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Main Street USA
Arizona McDowell , when I left AZ in '87 was 356 miles long and growing, was a very long street. But my town here on the Central Oregon Coast, has to have one of the longest... HWY 101 runs from Mexico to Wsrshington State. Travis Johnson wrote: Ok... I have to go off-topic for a second... I keep seeing the Main Street USA subject line and need to post... and it's Friday... :) Which state in the US has the longest main street and how long is it? Travis Microserv -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Clearwire
I would think that if I owned a stock, a speculative non profitable stock such as CLWR, that the analysts said had 5 years before it ran out of gas, I'd keep that stock. Probably buy more. So says others. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=CLWR Peter R. wrote: I find it funny that CITI has been marking all these tech companies as sell before burned, yet their clients were involved in the IPO's. http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2007/03/12/clearwire-burns-cash-churns-investors.aspx March 12, 2007 Mobile mogul Craig McCaw's latest venture, wireless Internet service provider *Clearwire* (Nasdaq: CLWR http://quote.fool.com/summary.aspx?s=CLWR), raked in $600 million last week in its IPO. It sounds like a lot of dough, but Clearwire's shaky business model, fierce rivals, and expensive operations will likely require even more cash over the next few years. Clearwire is the second-largest holder of the 2.5 GHz licensed spectrum, which reaches roughly 214 million people in the United States. The spectrum allows for data transfer speeds equivalent to wireline broadband, with far less potential interference than Wi-Fi or other wireless approaches. The success of Clearwire's network depends upon the adoption of WiMAX technologies. If computer and mobile device manufacturers agree to use the WiMAX standard, the value of Clearwire's network should increase. The company has attracted $1.1 billion in strategic investments from *Intel*, *Motorola*, and Bell Canada. That all sounds promising, but Clearwire's strategy is hardly unique. *Sprint Nextel* is deploying its own WiMAX network, while *Verizon* and other wireless providers employ competing technologies. Clearwire's enormous investment requirements pose an additional problem. The company shelled out $300 million for 2.5 GHz spectrum rights from *ATT*, and it will likely need to buy more spectrum. It also faces significant expenses in sales and marketing, customer service, equipment purchases, maintenance and RD. To finance these efforts, Clearwire has issued two secured notes, a term loan and a corporate loan, for a total of $755.6 million. Assuming no recapitalizations, the company will pay $84.3 million and $1.3 million in interest and principal, respectively, in 2007. What business model does Clearwire offer to justify these expenses? The company sells one- or two-year contracts, including activation fees, monthly charges, and ancillary services like VOIP and Web hosting. For 2006, the company increased its revenue by $66.7 million to a total of $100.2 million, but on the bottom line, it sustained a $284.2 million loss. According to its prospectus, Clearwire expects its losses to continue for some time. It predicts a whopping $800 million in cash needs for 2007 -- and that doesn't even include spectrum costs. Even if Clearwire doubles revenues in 2007, the company will quickly devour its IPO proceeds, and it'll probably need to go back to investors for more. That's a scary prospect for investors, so it's not surprising that the stock is already volatile, with a 10% drop on Friday and another 8% drop in Monday trading. For Foolish investors, it's probably a good bet to stay clear of Clearwire. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Admits Mistakes In Measuring Broadband Competition
I believe that we are at a junction where if there is a need for broadband and those in need make it known, that the competitive private sector will gladly step up and offer service. Isn't that where most of us are at now? Looking for new markets? George Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Yeah. But the FCC is also to blame. The form is ridiculously complicated. And how many are really gonna fill it out? The FCC needs to really do research beyond asking the public to provide input. Unfortunately, we'll likely never really know till there is a tax on broadband connections. People are pretty good about paying the appropriate taxes. Or, at the very least, the FCC needs to start going after those that won't fill out the form. It's a screwy deal. In the end, does it even matter? The public outcry has died out long ago. Now it's just political posturing and handwringing. The consumer's problems are largely gone. The ACCESS to broadband is very high in most of the country. Who care's about the DEPLOYMENT rate other than us that are deeply involved in the industry. Mostly, everyone is worried about a mole hill that some are trying to turn into a government funded mountain. Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Admits Mistakes In Measuring Broadband Competition Marlon, And why does the FCC only know about 400 WISP's? How can the FCC know these numbers did not come out of thin air if the number of WISP's you claim there are don't fill out the proper paper work and let their presence be known? If the majority of WISP's don't fill out the papers then how can you expect anyone to know these numbers are for real? Like I have been saying for awhile now if WISP's want to be taken seriously then they have to play by the same rules as all the other players. Considering WISP's are lumped in with satellite dish and still equal less than 1% of the market it is not even a blip on the radar screen. If there is anyone to blame for this it is not the people reporting the numbers. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Arrggh! The REAL problem is that the don't accurately count providers. They only catch the larger ones. We're NOT behind. Not like some like to claim we are. Hell, there are at LEAST 3000 wisps out there yet the FCC only has 400 of them filing the form 477. I'll bet the real number of wisps is north of 6000. Why doesn't anyone ever talk about how much further ahead we probably are? grr Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:52 AM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Admits Mistakes In Measuring Broadband Competition Found this on Slashdot For years, plenty of folks (including the Government Accountability Office) have been pointing out that the way the FCC http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070205/165735.shtml measures broadband competition is very flawed. It simply assumes that if a single household in a zip code is offered broadband by provider A, then every household in that zip code can get broadband from provider A. See the problem? For some reason the FCC still hasn't changed its ways, but at least they're starting to realize the problem. They're now saying they need to change http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2115154,00.asp the way they measure competition. Commissioner Michael Copps points out: 'Our statistical methodology seems almost calculated to obscure just how far http://techdirt.com/articles/20070418/143208.shtml our country is falling behind many other industrialized nations in broadband availability, adoption, speed and price.' -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Admits Mistakes In Measuring Broadband Competition
I can tell you that I have talked to wisps that want nothing to do with FCC, 477, CALEA or anyone that wants to know about their business. So there is quite a large percentage that will not show up on the radar. It would be hard to imagine that the supply chain to this industry would survive if there was not 1000's of wisps buying continuously. One of the things I've asked the board to do is to hire a wispa rep and to have that person start calling isp's across the nation, informing them of wispa, and gaining some membership. This would give us much better insight in to who, where and how many. Maybe after the election, we can again take up this subject. George Peter R. wrote: And that was 2004. I'm not arguing just to argue. This is a soapbox, so delete and move on if you want. When you go to the Feds and say that there are 6000 and only 400 have reported, that doesn't bode well for anyone. It makes the Feds nervous. It shines an ugly light on this so-called Industry. As Powell has stated it is way easier to deal with 12 companies using the same platforms than 1000's using many platforms. And Gonzo and K-Mart feel the same way (since they take their cues from the Roving 3). And when the gov't wants control and CALEA and surveillance and etc. and they can't get cooperation from this Industry, what do you think will happen? They will pick up a pen and wipe it out. But, Marlon, as I mentioned off-list, going through my Florida ISP database, about 40% are gone and some that are in business are not an ISP any longer. - Peter Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: Except that the SAME wisps were dealing with the top 5 or 6 vendors, so your count is quite inflated. Lonnie On 4/20/07, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In case you missed it in an earlier email. I called the top 5 or 6 vendors in the WISP space and pestered them till they told me how many providers they had on the books as WISPs. MUCH more accurate than the 477 and a similar or more comprehensive effort by the FCC would take someone all over a day or two. That help? Marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Weekend Trivia
Anyone know who this mug belongs to? http://www.phoneplusmag.com/articlemanagerimages/Img-2007041716201065626.jpg? :) -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Weekend Trivia
Your too quick Rick! I was checking out phone+ mag online and there he was: http://www.phoneplusmag.com/blogs/peertopeer/blogdefault.aspx?m=arta=74h17161948.html Would be cool if we could see what we all look like. George Rick Harnish wrote: The infamous Peter Rad! Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Weekend Trivia Anyone know who this mug belongs to? http://www.phoneplusmag.com/articlemanagerimages/Img-2007041716201065626.jpg ? :) -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Admits Mistakes In Measuring Broadband Competition
David E. Smith wrote: Mark Koskenmaki wrote: You pay some property taxes, you get to use all those roads they built. . It's all trade-offs. Basic freshman-year-of-college economics. I just wanted to point out an error you just made mark, you said : The government doesn't give you stuff for free, And your correct, but this other part is incorrect: you don't give them stuff for free Yes we do. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Admits Mistakes In Measuring Broadband Competition
you don't give them stuff for free Yes we do. Care to quantify this statement? Sure, the government has never paid me to give them taxes. George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Modifications of Part s 2 and 15 of the,Commission’s Rules for unlicensed devices and,equipment approval
Tim Kerns wrote: I find reading all these notices very difficult... I think they hire writers just to confuse us I thought it was lawyers... -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Modifications of Parts 2 and 15 of the, Commission's Rules for unlicensed devices and, equipment approval
Ralph, you hit the mark. The sbc guys need to get their stuff tested and certified. End of story. If some can't do it and others do, they will soon be without sales. That ought to drive them to conform. I can see the domino effect starting. ADI has done a very good thing for us. The pressure is on the other guys now. George ralph wrote: I'm just trying to say that most of these boards have never been certified to even use as a computing device in the US. They could be putting out spurs and harmonics all over the aircraft band or anywhere else. I had an SBC once whose crystal oscillator was putting out a strong signal right on 146.055 MHZ, the input of a local Ham repeater. It shut them completely down until I could get there and shut the computer off. Manufacturer had me pad the crystal with a capacitor. Moved the spur off to who knows where else. Hopefully not to the aircraft distress frequency or something like that. This board was not FCC certified either. I have a Routerboard 153 sitting here on my desk. Nowhere on it is an FCC compliance note about its compliance as an unintentional radiator. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Modifications of Parts 2 and 15 of the,Commission's Rules for unlicensed devices and, equipment approval - Original Message - From: ralph [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Modifications of Parts 2 and 15 of the,Commission's Rules for unlicensed devices and,equipment approval Laptop=Legal FCC Certified Computing Device SBC=not WRAP=not RB=not I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... I know that lots of SBC's have been certified within systems, and gettting them certified outside of systems, as unintentional radiators should be... well.. almost trivial. I don't think a WRAP board has been, but then, the WRAP is now obsolete. The various RB / Compex / Gateworks, etc SBC's are nothing but PARTS of already certified systems. The CPU's and other parts are common parts. They'd probably qualify under plain old declaration of compliance rules. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA Costs-Shifting Relief
On one of the documents that I've rad that maybe is not that public, they have taken into consideration that some isp's can not afford to impliment calea and they have a solution for that. Dawn DiPietro wrote: Peter, Thank you for posting this information. Since there is a $5000 application fee and that the provider has to prove that they have tried to comply I doubt the providers that scream the loudest will even take this information seriously and discount it like everything else we have heard about recently. I have heard on other lists that it is very difficult to get anything to come of this but as you know the misinformation flies rampantly these days. :-) Regards, Dawn DiPietro Peter R. wrote: *Section 109(b)(1) Petitions for Cost-Shifting Relief* CALEA section 109(b) permits a “telecommunications carrier,” as that term is defined by CALEA, to file a petition with the FCC and an application with the Department of Justice (DOJ) to request that DOJ pay the costs of the carrier’s CALEA compliance (cost-shifting relief) with respect to any equipment, facility or service installed or deployed after January 1, 1995. First, the carrier must file a section 109(b)(1) petition with the FCC and prove that, based on one or more of the criteria set forth in section 109(b)(1)(A)-(K), implementation of at least one particular solution that would comply with a particular CALEA section 103 capability requirement is not “reasonably achievable.” Second, if the Commission grants a section 109(b)(1) petition, the carrier must then apply to DOJ, pursuant to section 109(b)(2), to pay the reasonable costs of compliance for one of the solutions proposed in the section 109(b)(1) petition. DOJ may then either pay the reasonable costs of compliance or deny the application. If DOJ denies the section 109(b)(2) application, then the carrier is deemed to be CALEA compliant for the facilities, networks, and services (facilities) described in the section 109(b)(1) petition until those facilities are replaced, significantly upgraded or otherwise undergo a major modification. When those facilities are replaced, significantly upgraded or otherwise undergo a major modification, the carrier is obligated under the law to become CALEA compliant. The FCC may also specify in its CALEA section 109(b)(1) order granting a carrier’s petition the specific date when the replacement, upgrade or modification will occur and when CALEA compliance is required. Thus, a carrier’s obligation to comply with all CALEA requirements is only deferred when (1) the FCC grants a section 109(b)(1) petition, and (2) DOJ declines to pay the additional reasonable costs to comply with one or more of the CALEA requirements. No qualifying carrier is exempt from CALEA. Section 109(b)(1) petitions must be adequately supported, and the FCC decides whether to grant the petition strictly in reference to criteria set out in section 109(b)(1). Accordingly, carriers are encouraged to consult with competent legal and technical counsel before filing such a petition. Please note that a filing fee of $5,000.00 is required to accompany all CALEA section 109(b)(1) petitions filed with the FCC. See Appendix E entitled “Section 109(b)(1) Petitions for Cost-Shifting Relief: Filing Instructions,” and paragraphs 38-57 of the CALEA Second Report and Order http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-56A1.pdf for detailed filing instructions and further explanation of the scope of relief, and its limitations, available under section 109(b). More at the bottom of this page: http://www.fcc.gov/calea/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lemmings - suggestions
Peter R. wrote: Mr. Hush, Excellent plan. What agenda item will you be working on first? SUGGESTIONS of what to do: we have decided to stage a cyclic disconnect from public Inet in protest. I'm confused... Is he saying to turn the internet off for his customers? Is this supposed to have a positive impact? George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] LEMMINGS?
Being from Massachusetts and studying the American Revolution through out my youth, which is one exciting piece of history, Patrick Henry and Give me Liberty or give me Death has to be one of the cornerstone of my beliefs. Jeromie Reeves wrote: On 4/26/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeromie Reeves wrote: On 4/19/07, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as Patrick Henry once said Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Who is Patrick Henry?? Didn't Patrick Henry say Give me liberty or give me death? Yes he did. Your chopping off my sarcasm tag misrepresents my words. The quote in my email was also by Patrick Henry. Steve attributed Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. to Mr. Henry but I do not remember him ever saying it (course I was a bit young back in the 1700's and my memory is not what it once was.). -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lemmings - suggestions
Peter R. wrote: George Rogato wrote: Peter R. wrote: Mr. Hush, Excellent plan. What agenda item will you be working on first? SUGGESTIONS of what to do: we have decided to stage a cyclic disconnect from public Inet in protest. I'm confused... Is he saying to turn the internet off for his customers? Is this supposed to have a positive impact? George Why yes he did. Sheesh -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Two of my competitors just sat down for lunch and worked out a network sharing agreement. It's a handshake deal at this point though. Basically we carved up a hilltop laying out coverage zones for each of us, and we set a price for using each other's ap's. Marlon Hey I think thats a good thing you've done there Marlon, getting along and even doing business with your competitors. But where do you think the line would be drawn in respect to anti competitive practices? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
If the mesh box that is a MT box is legit and certified, why not just drop trango from the picture? What is the purpose of trango ? Dawn DiPietro wrote: Frank, Then I would suggest Rick go the Trango route. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Frank Crawford wrote: Trango's mesh box uses rb532 plus daughter bd and mikrotik OS. It's in thier manual. Frank - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, I have to agree with Ralph on this one. Since you have admitted on a public list that you believe there are no certified Mikrotik systems out there it would not be in your best interest to start off with such a system. Regards, Dawn DiPietro ralph wrote: The first thing I'd do in a case like that, is use an FCC approved system to start with. The fact that you don't plan to leaves you open for controversy from the beginning. Why would you do anything else? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? We're looking to provide service to a school nearby, using Mikrotik and SR5 / SR9 cards. Anyone have proposals to a school with info in it addressing the issue of will you fry our children ? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Travis Johnson wrote: The Trango MESH box uses Trango radios (thus FCC certified) and an RB532 for doing the routing. The RB is NOT providing any wireless service. Travis Microserv ah -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
I would assume Dawn, that your statement like mine is an SS U Me tion. If the trango's plug into the ethernets and the cm9 is a wifi ap, then it's quite a stretch to say that the mt-cm9 combo alone is not certified. George Dawn DiPietro wrote: Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Dawn DiPietro wrote: Rick, There is no way you would be legit if you decided to do this on your own. Considering the conversation that went on a few weeks back mentioned that people used Mikrotik systems because of the feature set and not cost why would you not buy an already certified system. Dawn, the reason we do this is because we like the performance of our mt-star type systems over Trango, Alvarion, Moto, etc. If the system is certified with a board and cm9's, why would we not want and be able to use the system in the way we see fit? Why do we have to use Trango for the backhaul, if a cm9 is legit? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC.
Charles, you should be asking the board this, or at least members who pay and have some say in wispa, not the open anyone can post wireless -list.. Don't you agree? George Charles Wu wrote: Out of curiosity...does this mean I can just email blast the list with events that I organize? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sascha Meinrath Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC. FYI: Contact: Sascha Meinrath Executive Director CUWiN Foundation [EMAIL PROTECTED] 217-278-3933 x31 INTERNATIONAL SUMMIT TO ADDRESS FUTURE OF BROADBAND -- Community Technology Leaders from Six Continents to Participate -- Champaign-Urbana, I.L., April 18 -- The CUWiN Foundation and the Center for Community Informatics (CCI) will host the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks (http://WirelessSummit.org) from May 18-20, 2007 at Loyola College in Columbia, Maryland. The summit is the largest gathering of wireless network developers, technology and policy experts, and community organizers working to build universal, low-cost broadband networks around the world. We are proud to host an event that brings together technologists and activists committed to universal access to informatics, said Marco Figueiredo, CCI Director. The International Summit for Community Wireless Networks explores the opportunities and challenges facing the growing movement to build community and municipal broadband networks, said Sascha Meinrath, co-founder and Executive Director of CUWiN. This event showcases cutting-edge technologies and develops political strategies to increase digital inclusion. Since the first National Summit for Community Wireless Networks in 2004, over 300 Community Internet and municipal broadband projects have sprung up in the United States alone. The Summit will focus on how these networks can better serve their target populations, the policies needed to support broader deployment of community wireless systems, and the latest technological and software innovations. Presenters at previous summits have included FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein, Jim Baller of the Baller Herbst Law Group, Annie Collins of Fiber for Our Future, Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America, Harold Feld of Media Access Project, Robert W. McChesney of Free Press, Matt Rantanen of Tribal Digital Village, Greg Richardson of Civitium LLC, Paul Smith of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies, Jim Snider of the New America Foundation, Dana Spiegel of NYCwireless, Esme Vos of Muniwireless.com and many other luminaries. High-speed broadband access is the electricity of the 21st century, yet many rural and poorer urban communities are being left off the grid, said Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, the DC-based policy think-tank. The innovators and organizers at the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks are blazing the trail to make broadband affordable and available to everyone. About CUWiN (http://www.cuwin.net) The CUWiN Foundation is a world-renowned coalition of wireless developers and community volunteers committed to providing low-cost, do-it-yourself, community-controlled alternatives to contemporary broadband models. CUWiN is fiscally sponsored by Grassroots.org, a non-profit 501c3. CUWiN's mission is to develop decentralized, community-owned networks that foster democratic cultures and local content. Through advocacy and through our commitment to open source technology, CUWiN supports organic networks that grow to meet the needs of their communities. About CCI (http://cci.cs.loyola.edu) The Center for Community Informatics engages Loyola College's students, faculty and staff in supporting the creation and deployment of informatics tools for community empowerment. CCI develops the Community Telecenter Free Software Toolset; promotes awareness events for the Loyola College community; offer courses in Community Informatics; promotes Digital Inclusion Conferences; researches and develops human-friendly technologies to facilitate inclusion in the New Society of Knowledge; and, evaluates, documents and develops sustainable models for Universal Access to Informatics. # # # -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
I don't think so. I think they probably have done the testing and got the certs for the board and the card. The trango stuff is a diferent test and cert that happened a long time ago. Lets not read more into it than whats there. We all know what a trango unit looks like and we all know how it works and we know that one works with out the other and has no effect on each other. Point we are making is, did trango and mt certify a cm9 with a board. End of question. Dawn DiPietro wrote: George, Trango would have had the whole system certified not just the radio card and the SBC. You can't take out a few parts from a certified system and consider it legal in any way shape or form. The system as a whole was certified including the case, the power supply and software. As far as I understand it if you change anything it would need to be re certified. The system would also need a sticker with the FCC ID # affixed to the outside of the case. Aren't you on the Cert Committee? Regards, Dawn DiPietro George Rogato wrote: I would assume Dawn, that your statement like mine is an SS U Me tion. If the trango's plug into the ethernets and the cm9 is a wifi ap, then it's quite a stretch to say that the mt-cm9 combo alone is not certified. George Dawn DiPietro wrote: Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Ralph, your looking at this from the wrong angle. With the Trango / MT situation, we HOPE that they are certified, because that will mean it's much easier to get our own flavor of MT cm9 certified and that MT actually is involved in certification efforts. Till now there has been no indication they and others are. The crux of this ongoing argument is did someone certify a MT, routerboard, cm9 system? Skip the already certified Trango components. What we all want is this stuff to get certified, and your right on track to push for certification. It will benefit us all. ralph wrote: And so they should. FCC rules are not jokes. They have real fines. Just because folks have always done it this way and see everyone else doing it doesn't exonerate them from wrongdoing. Using uncertified systems is just plain illegal. Period. There are people in WISPA who have pictures of installations on their web sites clearly showing amplifiers and homemade systems. Some of the rest of you continue to make postings and saying that you are violating the regs. Now we have this discussion about Trango. Because Trango has some MT components in a certified system (which they may or not do- I don't follow Trango), now all of a sudden we are trying to imagine that these components must now be legal for *everyone* to use in whatever configuration they want, as well. What part of this do you guys not get? Most of you guys pay your taxes don't you? You buy license plates for your vehicles don't you? If you have towers that require lighting, you light them, don't you? Would your excuses work to protect you if you don't do that? Those of us who obey the rules aren't paranoid about it at all. Its only those who don't and are now realizing that they can lose their businesses over this. As I have said many times: Folks- tell/show your vendors that you are not going to use illegal systems. Look at Deliberant at an example of someone building from modules and getting certified. Those guys have it together! Does there have to be an example case where someone gets fined to make you guys see this? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
Who is that someone? Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high tech wiretapping? Isn't legal wiretapping essential to law enforcement? The only thing I can think of is to seek funds from the feds to implement this. George Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I know you're absolutely sick of hearing about it. But here's someone who actually intends to stand up and do something about CALEA. WISPA needs to join this fight. If you want these people supporting WISPA, support them! www.wispa.org Will WISPA actively seek to defend small networks - most of which will be wireless - from being simply shut down becasue they can't comply with mandates designed for telephone companies? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing
No, but postcard mania sends me lots of offers. postcardmania.com Mike Hammett wrote: Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high tech wiretapping? BECAUSE IT IS FREAKING WRONG, GEORGE, for the government to shift the cost of law enforcement to specific business entities for its own convenience. Why can't you see this? When I was in the electrical contracting business, I was forced to have all kinds of fees laid upon me to conduct business. This isp business is one of the least regulated with the least intrusive and least government costs. If your moaning and groaning about what will probably turn out to be very low cost solutions, (an assumption) what are you going to do when it comes time to hire employees and then fall inline with those government regulations and costs? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
How do you know what the costs are Ed? George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
Have you heard actual costs yet? Edward H. Winters wrote: George, From talking to equipment manufactures, law enforcement, and trusted third party providers. I would roll my own, but even if i had a working intercept device (opencalea's tap program) it would still need to forward the collected data to the TTP for mediation. Ed On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:53:48 -0700 George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you know what the costs are Ed? George -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
Those prices don't make me happy either. I have not heard an official anything yet from the wispa calea group. I don't believe they are done with their activities. It would be good to hear what they have to say concerning methods of compliance and costs. I read a doc that said a 15k isp could be 150k it also said it knew some isps had meager budgets and they said they will deal with that. I would assume they were not going to bankrupt a small isp. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Vudu Casts Its Spell on Hollywood
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gizmodo-exclusive/exclusive-pics-of-the-vudu-+-video-store-in-a-box-256044.php http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/business/yourmoney/29vudu.html?ref=technology The system, according to interviews and those patent applications, will operate like a traditional peer-to-peer service, but without any active participation by users. Vudu boxes that already have a certain movie on their hard drives — say, “The Godfather” — will send pieces of that movie to a nearby box when its owner suddenly gets a taste for the epic Mafia drama. But to get those movies playing quickly, the Vudu engineers struck upon another notion: using a slice of the digital real estate on each Vudu box to store the beginning portions of each film. They also delved into the science of predictions. When the company determines that a movie is more likely to be rented or purchased — early in its release, for example — it will plant lengthier pieces of that film on unused portions of Vudu boxes in customer homes. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing
One thing I should point out is the postage costs. If you go to your local chamber of commerce and get their bulk mail permit number you can pay bulk rate at the post office. They typically let all the local businesses use it no charge. Now if you compare the difference in postage price between a postcard and a tri folded flier, it probably is the entire cost of the flier paper. The postage for postcards is that much more, check the pricing. During our dial up days, we did quite abit of fliers. When you looked at our flier before opening it, one side was the addressing to and the other side had a coupon with the perferated lines and picture of the sizzors and a save this coupon line just underneath it. I figure there are so many people who clip coupons, if they seen a coupon, they would want to not toss it in the trash and open it up and clip the coupon. Naturally inside was the message I was sending. The other way to get the flier out cheaply is to stuff your local newspaper. In our town we have a small twice a week newspaper. They were cheaper than postage and they even folded the fliers for us at no extra charge. Mike Hammett wrote: *nods* their minimum is 5k cards and I'm looking to go smaller than that. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing No, but postcard mania sends me lots of offers. postcardmania.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Dawn DiPietro wrote: Mike, There is no excuse for using uncertified gear no matter who is at fault. This attitude is going to hurt the WISP industry more than anything. Dawn, we got to where we are today because of the independent thinking tech who rolled his own systems. I very much doubt we would be as far forward as we are without the shade tree wisp types. Even Moto got one hell of a kick start by converting 802.11b systems over to their platform. I'm sure Alvarion, Trango and the others are doing well with fork lift upgrades by wisps who did what they had to to get going. Yes, today is a the beginning of a new era, one which will demand certification, but lets not forget our roots, and lets stop casting stones or trying to paint a nasty picture of some. Those who have never deployed an uncertified system are either far and few between or have not been in this industry very long. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?
I just hit next when it's thread that is tiresome. Maybe a posting limit for nonmembers :) Overall, if the dialogue is kept civil there should be no issues. Ranting is old though. John Scrivner wrote: Is anyone else getting tired of sorting through the exhaustive amount of email we are getting on the public list? Much of it is good stuff but I think we see some people who are posting more than we need to all see. I am thinking we should consider a post count limit per day per person. I would like to hear feedback on this concept. Maybe a max of 5 posts per day? I think if we do this we might see the message count drop to a slightly lower amount and I personally think this would be good. The WISPA public list is becoming too much for me to digest each day. Just wondering what the rest of you think. Before someone jumps on this and finds that I have regularly posted more than this let me tell you that I already know this. I am going to try to self-regulate from now on whether the group agrees with this concept or not. If a post count per day limit is too limiting to everyone then perhaps we need to consider splitting up list subject matter into multiple lists and allowing people to be members on lists of varying themes. This public list is just becoming too large I think. Thoughts? Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?
Yeah, but you have all kinds of things going on. I see you on all the various lists looking for everything from fiber paths to long distance.. Heck, one of these days, I may even buy something from you. George Mike Hammett wrote: I wish I had 30. ;-) 11 paying customers here. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Posting limits? Mike Hammett wrote: I joined this list last week and already consider leaving due to the drama. It may feel a little like drama Mike, but calea is important and some people have very strong feelings one way or the other. It's good to see opinions, Ed saying he has 30 subs and will be out of business is informative and compelling. Some of us have operations that can carry the weight of the calea burden and others don't. Sometimes we all forget about the other guys circumstances. So dialogue is good. It's the ranting that gets old. Information is good, the more the better. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Dawn DiPietro wrote: Mike, If you think you are under the radar you are sorely mistaken. You admitted on a public list that gear you use is not certified. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Yeah, but your over the limit! :) I just want to know why the feds don't just drive on over to Teletronics in Maryland and shut them down? Heck why go after a 3000 little guys when you can go after one big guy. They've been selling unlicensed amplifiers and uncertified systems for as long as I can remember. Heck, talk about posting a message on this list, what about having a full blown catalog online advertizing US sales with prices next to them? I believe they should have spent the 3 or 4 g's to get the systems they sell certified before they sold them. They make millions easily selling uncertified gear and it's not a secret. Lets look at this from all points of view. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Posting limits and other
Where do you live? Felix A. Lopez wrote: Marlon, The good ol MDS 900 MHz radios... Other - Since I am new I would be better at being a secretary or something like that. I enjoy coordinating eduational meetings, business development, webinars, and facilitating events; lobbying etc. For example, I was the executive secretary for the STLE West Coast while at Chevron. I recently attended a WiNOG conference and thought that would be interesting to help facilitate. WiNOG is Wireless Network Operators Group and topic are germane to wireless operators first and foremost. For example, I just helpd Douglas County PUD folks brainstorming and solved stuff on VLANing, tagged and untagged, element management systems, etc. So, if all you folks are busy running your WISPs and providing internet access to our rural compadres (and urban ones too), I am more than happy to become a secretary. By the way, I have MBA, BA, and two years towards an MSEE. I am a US Citizen, like listening to Neil Young, and son of a WWII veteran (he is still around). Felix --- Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Welcome Felix! Sounds like you've been around the block a time or two. Very cool. Did you know that there is an associate WISPA membership level? It allows you to be involved, sit on the board etc. I hope you'll be more involved here. I think that many of the issues that affect us are likely to also affect the SCADA folks these days. PLEASE tell me that you didn't do like the SCADA goofballs here in Odessa and put omni antennas at every site! Even the ones that only see ONE other site. I'm gonna have to work a LOT harder than I should have if I ever put in 900mhz. Hell, I already have gear at half of their sites, they should have just used my wireless system to do the SCADA collections. Our uptime is very very good. All they ended up with is a bunch of money to overbuild an existing network! laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Felix A. Lopez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Posting limits? Marlon, I just joined this list and agree with your recommendations to supplment with a part time job. Prior to my current position, I worked at a winery on swing shift from 4 pm to 12 midnite and did my consulting work in the day time. Whew. And later I got hired by a big company in fixed wireless infrastructure with one of the larger manufacturers. By the way, I had a chance to visit Ehprata Washington when I visited the Grant County PUD folks. Very nice up there. I am originally from the rural area of Kings River, California, near the Kings Canyon National Park Hwy 180 Sierra Foothills. Worked for the US Forest Service, PGE in Power Distribution and Energy Conservation, Chevron in clean diesals, and now involved in RF networks wireless. We used wirleess in power distribution for our SCADA networks albeit in narrowband. Broadband provides interesting opportunities for the enterprise. The rural areas of San Joaquin Valley still searching for wireless. One of my friends is putting up a system. Using his own money. I always thought a lease program is ideal for wireless because of the change in generation of equipment. For example, Canopy is now Canopy Advantage. And other manufacturers are going to new generation. Good luck to you all here on this list. I am also involved in WiMax (or I should say pre-WiMax). Felix Lopez --- Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With 11 customers I HIGHLY suggest you get a part time job. Something flexible if you can. Taking that financial stress off will help you do a much better job. I drove tractor, did consulting, speaking, equipment sales, wrote articles etc. Whatever I could to make extra money. If I'd not have done those things, I'd have failed in this business for sure. Costs were too high and I had too much debt stacked up. And my wife works part time half the year so she's not a lot of help in feeding the family. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Posting limits? I will admit that I have a lot of potential, but potential doesn't mean dollars now. More than once I've looked at finding a part time job (again) so I have some money to invest in my operations. I need more equipment. I need more marketing. I need developers. I have no or little money to pay for the above. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Posting limits? Yeah, but you have all kinds of things going on. I see you on all the various lists looking for everything from
[WISPA] Jack Unger on WiMAX
http://www.socalwug.org/2006/02/23/general-meeting-jack-unger-wimax/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
