Re: [WISPA] Court Injunction

2008-08-05 Thread RickG
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Victoria Proffer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have had to deal with a similar situation.  I talked to the guy and told
 him that he was causing interference in our network. I gave him a free
 internet account and he only uses his radio one hour a week, with prior
 notice.
 --
 Victoria Proffer
 CEO
 St. Louis Broadband
 Visit us @
 www.StLBroadband.com
 314-974-5600

At first, I thought this was a good idea but then I thought what is
the word gets out? Cool! Free internet from Victoria for turning up
the power on the 900 band! -RickG



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Re: [WISPA] new site install pictures

2008-08-12 Thread RickG
Really nice work Kurt! I need you to come down to Kentucky and do that
for me on a few tower!
-RickG

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hey guys I just got some pictures uploaded of one of my AP sites if you want
 to check it out. Hopefully someone starting out can benefit from it as this
 is 4 years of knowledge from being on the lists here and picking up on
 better ways of how to do installs. Got any questions just ask. I'd
 appreciate some comments as well. :)



 http://www.wavelinc.com/towers/DSGE_Tower/





 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com









 
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[WISPA] coax cables

2008-08-12 Thread RickG
I'm running coax down my tower and came across and RG8/U. Can this be
used on 5GHz?
-RickG



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[WISPA] coax cables - RG8/U

2008-08-12 Thread RickG
I hate radios at the top of the tower so I'd like to run coax cables
to an enclosure at the bottom and add amps to make up for the loss.
I'm looking for a 9 mile link. The drop is 150 feet. At any rate, I
found an old RG8/U cable. Will that work on 5GHz? I also have LMR400?
If not, what would you recommend?
-RickG



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Re: [WISPA] coax cables - RG8/U

2008-08-12 Thread RickG
I thought so. Thats why I asked. So, LMR400 or 600?
-RickG

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 RG8 is totally wrong.


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] coax cables - RG8/U


I hate radios at the top of the tower so I'd like to run coax cables
 to an enclosure at the bottom and add amps to make up for the loss.
 I'm looking for a 9 mile link. The drop is 150 feet. At any rate, I
 found an old RG8/U cable. Will that work on 5GHz? I also have LMR400?
 If not, what would you recommend?
 -RickG


 
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Re: [WISPA] coax cables - RG8/U

2008-08-13 Thread RickG
Kurt,

I just saw the pics. BEAUTIFUL! Exactly what I am talking about.
As always, great tips from all. Thanks! -RickG

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hold on, I am heading out the door right now the the camera I'm gonna get
 some pics of another tower I setup that is all COAX and I think you'll be
 drooling when you see it.

 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Blair Davis
 Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 2:38 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables - RG8/U

 I have and still do, in some cases, long, (100ft+), cable runs.  LMR-400
 is the minimum cable size for that on 2.4GHz.  You will need an amp.

 At 5GHz, I would expect LMR-600 or better.  However, at 5GHz, I think I
 would go with tower top radios.  I doubt that you will get good results
 at 5GHz with that kind of cable run.

 RG8 cable is useless for anything we do as wisps.

 RickG wrote:
 I hate radios at the top of the tower so I'd like to run coax cables
 to an enclosure at the bottom and add amps to make up for the loss.
 I'm looking for a 9 mile link. The drop is 150 feet. At any rate, I
 found an old RG8/U cable. Will that work on 5GHz? I also have LMR400?
 If not, what would you recommend?
 -RickG



 
 
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Re: [WISPA] He knows what we don't... ???

2008-08-13 Thread RickG
I thought 3650 was blocked in Florida?
-RickG

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If you believe they mean true Wi-MAX then do you believe it's licensed
 Wi-MAX or licensed-lite Wi-MAX in 3650?

 Charles Wyble wrote:
 Jack Unger wrote:

 Here's a guy who is building a Muni WiMAX network all by himself.

 http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2008/08/09/3592867.htm

 Either:

 a) This gentleman believes he knows a whole lot more than WISPA members
 know (because very few WISPA members are single-handedly building Muni
 Wi-MAX networks), or

 b) The opposite is true, or

 c) Neither of the above. Another journalist is conflating Wi-Fi and
 WiMAX (again).




 No... I think they mean WiMAX. The quote:


 A few more base stations would have to be installed around the city to
 make all of Delray Beach wireless.

 to me implies WiMAX. Unless the city is quite small, I don't think a
 handful of (meshed) Access Points could cover it.
 I mean unless he is using 3.65Ghz perhaps?



 --
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
 NEXT ONLINE TRAINING AUGUST 18-19 2008 http://www.linktechs.net/askwi.asp
 FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger
 Phone 818-227-4220  Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]





 
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Re: [WISPA] Connect Ohio Program? anyone heard of this

2008-08-13 Thread RickG
I've met with the ConnectKentucky guys a few times. In fact, a few of
them are my customers. Like all government programs any results are
few and far between.
-RickG

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If I know Chip his name's not rining a bell right now.  But I've talked to
 or met a LOT of people over the years and I tend to forget names far too
 quickly.

 All programs like this give me the heeby geebies.  At least so far they do.

 One good note is that it's about time Government started proactively
 collecting 477 type data if they want it.  It's really non of their business
 as long as I'm paying my taxes, but I really hate having to do the work for
 them when they want to know something.

 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Stuart Pierce [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Connect Ohio Program? anyone heard of this


 connectohio is headed by apparently Chip Spann out of Kentucky of all
 places and wants to know all kinds of information about your business and
 is getting paid to collect it.

 He says he knows Marlon, Patrick and a few others. I've got the forms from
 him, but never filled them out, didn't give me a good vibe.

 -- Original Message --
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date:  Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:08:20 -0700

It's all about grant money Kurt.

Somehow, once we actually start fixing these problems they start to forget
that we're out there.

Wanna have some fun?  Call the governor's office and relate these
things/stories and see what they have to say.  grin
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 6:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Connect Ohio Program? anyone heard of this


 Just got done reading an article in my local newspaper here. Apparently
 there was a meeting here in the county about how we need more broadband
 options. Funny thing is no one ever called any of the 4 wireless
 providers
 in the county here and asked them to attend. And there is a group
 touring
 around with the governor called Connect Ohio with a moto of No child
 left
 un-connected. Has anyone here heard any of this at all. I've never
 heard
 any one mention it but apparently it sounds as if this has been going on
 for
 a while. And then at the end of the article there is the local American
 Red
 Cross guy saying we are like a third world country, funny thing is they
 called me up about getting service in at that Red Cross Chapter and they
 were supposed to get hooked up but never did cause they canceled the
 install!



 Article is attached.



 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com





  _

 From: NewsBank -- service provider for Telegraph-Forum Archives
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 9:41 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Telegraph-Forum Document




 Telegraph-Forum (Bucyrus, OH)


 Telegraph-Forum (Bucyrus, OH)

 July 24, 2008

 What can better broadband mean to Crawford County?



 By Gary Ogle

 Telegraph-Forum



 GALION -- A high-tech future demands high speed Internet. A large group
 of
 community leaders from Crawford County dreamed and discussed Wednesday
 afternoon about what better broadband service could mean to the people
 they
 help, the people they hire, the people they serve and those they
 educate.

 One of the biggest problems, North Central State's Don Plotts said,
 is
 getting people to understand they need technology.

 The session at Galion Community Hospital, part of Gov. Ted Strickland's
 Connect Ohio initiative to accelerate technology and close the digital
 divide, was led by Sage Cutler and Gary Lambert of Connect Ohio. People
 from all facets of Crawford County, described as leaders in the
 eCommunity,
 were invited to discuss how their companies and organizations use
 broadband
 now and how it could impact them in the future.

 This is the second benchmark work session in the state, Cutler said.
 Gallia County was the first and all 88 counties in the state will begin
 the
 process within the next two years.

 Cutler said Crawford County was selected to be among the first because
 there were some other broadband initiatives (here).

 Those in attendance included government officials from across the
 county,
 representatives of business and industry, education, health care and
 community organizations.

 Part of the process was to divide them into nine sectors as defined by
 their profession or the organization they represented. Wednesday's
 meeting
 had participants in seven of the nine sectors.

 Each sector discussed where it was at locally regarding broadband use,
 its
 application and implication, and what could be improved in the near
 future
 with better broadband resources. Cutler explained

Re: [WISPA] He knows what we don't... ???

2008-08-13 Thread RickG
Yes, excluded. I had a WISP in West Palm that I just sold but I had
noted previously it was excluded from 3650 (not the reason I sold it).
At any rate, I try to assist the new owners so any info is good to
know.
-RickG

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 RickG wrote:
 I thought 3650 was blocked in Florida?
 -RickG



 By blocked do you mean the exclusion zones? Access to those can be
 negotiated. I'm in the process of doing that now in Southern California.
 To my knowledge no one has done this yet. At least I haven't found any
 existing licenses issued in the SoCal area.

 --
 Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
 CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project



 
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Re: [WISPA] Fixing dead CPE

2008-08-18 Thread RickG
I've hear some are repairing themselves by putting in their alternative
boards? I'd like to hear what works best.
-RickG

On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Well, I gave them a ring.  They are net doing Tranzeo.

 Any others out there?

 Jim Patient wrote:

 1-866-439-5469
 http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=ezlinxnet

 Jim

 Blair Davis wrote:


  The ez one I had heard of, but, if either is on here, hopefully, he will
 see this and drop me a line.

 Thanks

 Blair

 Cameron Kilton wrote:



  Exlinx is one guy

 Jack Weinberg is the dude.


 -Cam

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
 Behalf Of Blair Davis
 Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 5:10 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Fixing dead CPE

 Anybody know who fixes failed CPE?

 I've ended up with a few Tranzeo units that have died out of warranty
 and I'd like to see if they can be fixed.

 Think I've seen him on here ez something...

 Blair




 
 
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Re: [WISPA] CPE radios

2008-08-20 Thread RickG
Marlon,

I LOVE my Tranzeo radios. Before using them, I all but gave up on 802.11. In
an effort to assist, I dont have the disconnect issues you mention.  I've
got StarOS on WRAP boards for AP's.
I dont have any power supply issues either except from the expected
lightning. I use 15 volt units from Prime Electronics which I get for $2.99!
---
http://www.primelec.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/2452565/vpcsid/0/SFV/31734

I hope someone can help with your issues. -RickG

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Hi All,

 I really like my Tranzeo CPQ radios.  But we're seeing a LOT of power
 supply
 failures (and they are too cheap to even warranty, we just buy new ones).
 Sometimes they don't fully fail either, they go low or something, the
 injector lights up like it should but the radio just won't work right.

 What's really a problem is the dang'd Mikrotik to Tranzeo CPQ disconnect
 problem.  It's driving my gamers and business customers nutso.  All CPQ
 radios disconnect and reconnect at the same time, sometimes every few
 minutes, sometimes every couple of days.

 This happens when there is an XR2 card in the Mikrotik.  Doesn't seem to
 matter what firmware is on the radios.

 Did I say that I also really like the MT ap's?  They are too complicated to
 set up, but once that's done they work very well and give me great
 information on who's doing what on my network.  And I am a point and click
 GUI kinda guy so StarOS is really hard for me to deal with.  And I've
 recently replaced an MT ap with Star, no real difference that I can see as
 far as the customer experience is concerned.  I don't think we're getting
 the disconnects, but I just can't deal with the management mechanism for
 Star so I'm not totally sure.

 Anyway, I tried a couple of the Ubiquity cpe units.  I liked the electronic
 polarization capability.  Hated the router config.  And, they have both
 basically failed in just a few months of service.  They were still working,
 but the rx went to pot in them.  (19 dB tranzeo had -82 when put in vs.
 the -97 of the ubiquity when it was pulled out)  So, now I have a
 telecommuter with a Ubiquity radio that's on the fritz, can't use a tranzeo
 because of the disconnect issue (she works via voip and can't use the phone
 when it keeps dropping out for a second or two all day long).

 What are people having good luck with?

 I can't believe that wifi radios won't really connect to each other
 correctly at this stage of the game.  Some of our manufacturers are getting
 too lazy I think.  I need cheap gear, but mostly I need gear that works.

 I long for the old Teletronics 2 meg ap's.  Some of those from 2000 are
 still in use today!  We never have to touch them!

 I think I'm gonna set up an MT unit to be a cpe for the one customer.  But
 I
 have to figure out what to use going forward.  Either better ap's or cpe.

 For AP's I REALLY like the Teletronics 172 units.  They are cheap and work
 very well with either b or g client radios.  But they blow ethernet ports
 far too easily, and they lock up too often.  And I've NEVER used a worse AP
 than the Tranzeo 6000 radios.  What a POS those are.  Constant lockups!
  But
 not at all locations.  Sometimes they work pretty well, but usually they
 just suck.

 deep sigh

 Suggestions?
 marlon






 
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Re: [WISPA] Running Fiber

2008-08-20 Thread RickG
LOL, kinda like their commericals - they have crowds of hundreds of people
everywhere. It's the network! -RickG


On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 When Verizon FiOS was put into my neighborhood, they just used labor.
 They had 30 or so people on our street for a week digging everything up.
 From the right of way in front of the side walks, to the common area where
 the in -ground boxes were put, to the streets.  The Comcast cable was run
 an inch or so below the ground and is visible in many areas.  Verizon dug
 down about 3+ ft to lay their cable.

 So, while automated methods exists, Verizon didn't use them.

 
  Ikes, sorry for hijacking the last thread and forgetting to change the
  subject!
 
  -=-=-=-
  Hello,
 
  If one was wanting to run fiber in an already developed neighborhood, the
  obvious obstacles are existing concrete roads, drives and sidewalks. What
  are your options for getting around this other than destroying and fixing
  which is not an option? Is there a technology that would allow you to
  drive
  conduit underneath concrete drives and such?
 
  Michiana Wireless, Inc.
  John Buwa, President
 
  http://WWW.MichianaWireless.Com
  574-233-7170
 
  Lose the wires, discover the speed, enjoy the freedom!
 
  *US Distributor for www.itelite.net Antennas*
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
  Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 12:02 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] does water ruin antennas?
 
  Antennas a cheap these days.  When in doubt, toss it out.
 
  I replace everything, radio included, all of the time now.  Started
  doing
  that a couple of years ago, man has my life gotten better and my work
  load
  lighter!
  marlon
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
  wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:56 AM
  Subject: [WISPA] does water ruin antennas?
 
 
   So, if I have a suspect antenna that might have got water in it, is
  it
   ruined, or can it dry out, be resealed and work just fine?
  
  
   Specifically, I have a couple omni's from sites that seemed to be
  under
   powered.  The culprit could have been the radio card, pigtail, cable
  or
   omni, I don't know.  I replaced it all.  The reason I ask about the
  omni
   is because way back a few years ago I got paranoid after I have some
   water issues.  A couple of these omni's I put too much tape and
  mastic
   on the bottom by the connector.  I wrapped it up too high and thick
  and
   covered the weep holes in the bottom of the omni.  So maybe I got
   condensation, or water in there if it could not leak out
  
   So if an omni like that got wet, will it dry and be ok?  What about a
   dipole on a grid?
  
   Brian
  
  
   -
  ---
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Re: [WISPA] CPE radios

2008-08-21 Thread RickG
Only when they break. For me, they only seem to fail after lighting strikes.
-RickG

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 You replace all of the power supplies right off the bat?  OR only when they
 break.

 I understand about the lightning.  But it's funny how often the new tranzeo
 units go out while everything else just keeps running.

 Thanks,
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] CPE radios


  Marlon,
 
  I LOVE my Tranzeo radios. Before using them, I all but gave up on 802.11.
  In
  an effort to assist, I dont have the disconnect issues you mention.  I've
  got StarOS on WRAP boards for AP's.
  I dont have any power supply issues either except from the expected
  lightning. I use 15 volt units from Prime Electronics which I get for
  $2.99!
  ---
 
 http://www.primelec.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/2452565/vpcsid/0/SFV/31734
 
  I hope someone can help with your issues. -RickG
 
  On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
 
  Hi All,
 
  I really like my Tranzeo CPQ radios.  But we're seeing a LOT of power
  supply
  failures (and they are too cheap to even warranty, we just buy new
 ones).
  Sometimes they don't fully fail either, they go low or something, the
  injector lights up like it should but the radio just won't work right.
 
  What's really a problem is the dang'd Mikrotik to Tranzeo CPQ disconnect
  problem.  It's driving my gamers and business customers nutso.  All CPQ
  radios disconnect and reconnect at the same time, sometimes every few
  minutes, sometimes every couple of days.
 
  This happens when there is an XR2 card in the Mikrotik.  Doesn't seem to
  matter what firmware is on the radios.
 
  Did I say that I also really like the MT ap's?  They are too complicated
  to
  set up, but once that's done they work very well and give me great
  information on who's doing what on my network.  And I am a point and
  click
  GUI kinda guy so StarOS is really hard for me to deal with.  And I've
  recently replaced an MT ap with Star, no real difference that I can see
  as
  far as the customer experience is concerned.  I don't think we're
 getting
  the disconnects, but I just can't deal with the management mechanism for
  Star so I'm not totally sure.
 
  Anyway, I tried a couple of the Ubiquity cpe units.  I liked the
  electronic
  polarization capability.  Hated the router config.  And, they have both
  basically failed in just a few months of service.  They were still
  working,
  but the rx went to pot in them.  (19 dB tranzeo had -82 when put in vs.
  the -97 of the ubiquity when it was pulled out)  So, now I have a
  telecommuter with a Ubiquity radio that's on the fritz, can't use a
  tranzeo
  because of the disconnect issue (she works via voip and can't use the
  phone
  when it keeps dropping out for a second or two all day long).
 
  What are people having good luck with?
 
  I can't believe that wifi radios won't really connect to each other
  correctly at this stage of the game.  Some of our manufacturers are
  getting
  too lazy I think.  I need cheap gear, but mostly I need gear that works.
 
  I long for the old Teletronics 2 meg ap's.  Some of those from 2000 are
  still in use today!  We never have to touch them!
 
  I think I'm gonna set up an MT unit to be a cpe for the one customer.
  But
  I
  have to figure out what to use going forward.  Either better ap's or
 cpe.
 
  For AP's I REALLY like the Teletronics 172 units.  They are cheap and
  work
  very well with either b or g client radios.  But they blow ethernet
 ports
  far too easily, and they lock up too often.  And I've NEVER used a worse
  AP
  than the Tranzeo 6000 radios.  What a POS those are.  Constant lockups!
   But
  not at all locations.  Sometimes they work pretty well, but usually they
  just suck.
 
  deep sigh
 
  Suggestions?
  marlon
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] IP3 for visitor based networks

2008-09-09 Thread RickG
I love my IP3. I also like this ---
http://www.valuepointnet.com/products/controllers/index.html
-RickG

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Rogelio,

 From our evaluation and number of years back, The IP3 didn't do anything
 that we weren't already doing with standard OpenSource packages, or lower
 cost WISP standard gear like Mikrotik.

 But you hit the nail on the head on the value IP3 gives... Turn Key
 System. It enables the buyer to hit the ground running with a working
 solution, if they didn't really know how to do those type things on their
 own, or have the time to figure it out.


 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Rogelio [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 1:58 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IP3 for visitor based networks


  Butch Evans wrote:
  I can get you exactly the same thing and for MUCH less than $3k. That
  much money must be a really NICE bit of hardware.  I set these things up
  all the time in hotels for less than $900 TOTAL (I charge them more than
  that).  I can't image what kind of gear would require that much money.
 
  Cool, I've love to see a URL showing the features of your $900 soln.
 
  In context, the $3K was a tiny, tiny part of the hundreds of thousands
  of dollars that they were spending on networking hardware (Mikrotiks,
  BelAir, etc).
 
  Also, they were looking for turnkey, easy-to-maintain solutions on which
  they would a serious revenue stream would depend.  And while I don't
  know for sure to that IP3 completely provides that, I'm guessing it does
  to some degree...
 
 
 
 
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[WISPA] DSL Tariffed

2008-09-09 Thread RickG
I'm losing a business customer to DSL. They offered them a price much below
what they advertise (6Mbps for $49). My question is: Is DSL a tariffed
service and have to sell at their advertised rates?
-RickG



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[WISPA] frequency converters

2008-09-09 Thread RickG
Whats the downside to using frequency converters?
-RickG



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Re: [WISPA] DSL Tariffed

2008-09-09 Thread RickG
I do recall something to that nature. It just didnt hit me until
lately. Oh well, expand out further, forget the inner city. Thanks!

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 No and no. In case you missed it, the FCC Report and Order FCC 05-150 issued 
 on 9/23/05 basically gave your business away to
 the RBOCS.




 Frank Muto
 www.SecureEmailPlus.com









 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:11 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] DSL Tariffed


 I'm losing a business customer to DSL. They offered them a price much below
 what they advertise (6Mbps for $49). My question is: Is DSL a tariffed
 service and have to sell at their advertised rates?
 -RickG


 
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Re: [WISPA] frequency converters

2008-09-09 Thread RickG
Mike,

Have you tried them? Anyone?

-RickG

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:51 PM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Noise?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:49 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] frequency converters

 Whats the downside to using frequency converters?
 -RickG


 
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Re: [WISPA] DSL Tariffed

2008-09-09 Thread RickG
Tom,

You are very correct. In fact, we give fantastic service with same day
response and many other perks that all of you know out. Unfortunatley,
many are swayed by crazy marketing campaigns promising the world. I've
always said that the lies will catch up with them but somehow even
when they cant deliver their brainwashed customers stick with the
LEC's. I'm not saying this is always the case but it is prevalent.
Meanwhile, I'm stuck paying $600/month/T1 and get treated like dirt.
At any rate, there are some that understand the values you mention.

Thanks for your input! -RickG

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 12:17 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 No, not necessarilly. The 6mbps DSL still has to work, in order for it to
 take your business. Just because they offer the a price doesn;t mean the
 copper will be available or that the loop will be short enough to facilitate
 the speed.

 Sure they can take your client on a given day, but that doesn't necessarily
 mean they can take your market. There are lots of coverage holes for DSL.

 Don't forget to push the value of your repsonse time guarantees.

 There is no credabilty in a LEC promissing something that they aren't
 capable of giving. The DSL probably has a 30 day response or repair
 guarantee. You can offer them a 2 or 4 hour repsonse wireless guarantee, and
 deliver it. A LEC likely will likely never be able to deliver that..


 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] DSL Tariffed


I do recall something to that nature. It just didnt hit me until
 lately. Oh well, expand out further, forget the inner city. Thanks!

 On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 No and no. In case you missed it, the FCC Report and Order FCC 05-150
 issued on 9/23/05 basically gave your business away to
 the RBOCS.




 Frank Muto
 www.SecureEmailPlus.com









 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:11 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] DSL Tariffed


 I'm losing a business customer to DSL. They offered them a price much
 below
 what they advertise (6Mbps for $49). My question is: Is DSL a tariffed
 service and have to sell at their advertised rates?
 -RickG


 
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Re: [WISPA] frequency converters

2008-09-09 Thread RickG
I always appreciate your input, have you tried them? I'd love to hear
from someone that has and their experience.
-RickG

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 12:20 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm not sure there is any significant disadvantage. Other than the obvious,
 such as another point of failure, another connection to add loss, mild loss
 of energy in the conversion, additional cost.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] frequency converters


 Mike,

 Have you tried them? Anyone?

 -RickG

 On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:51 PM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Noise?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:49 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] frequency converters

 Whats the downside to using frequency converters?
 -RickG


 
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Re: [WISPA] frequency converters

2008-09-10 Thread RickG
I want to convert 2.4GHz to 5.8GHz for exactly that reason: to have
the radio at the bottom and the antennas at the top.
Good comments from all (as always). Thanks! -RickG

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:28 AM, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have some RF KLInx 2.4 to 900MHz frequency converters that have been
 on operation for about 6 years now. They work fine altthough they will
 soon be coming out and replaced with a new product.

 One place I thought frequency converters would be nice is on towers that
 are too tall to run cable for 5 gig.
 Would be nice to have a converter that lowers it from 5 gig at the
 bottom and brings it back to 5 gig at the top, this way the radios can
 stay at the bottom.

 Isn't that how Breezecom Alvarion did some of their stuff in the past?

 George

 RickG wrote:
 Whats the downside to using frequency converters?
 -RickG


 
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Re: [WISPA] Thieves Steal Tower

2008-09-10 Thread RickG
Yours take 30 seconds. I swear I've got one guy who calls 30 seconds
before :) -RickG

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 All the more reason to make sure that you have a wisp on your unused tower!
 Customers would have called us within 30 seconds of an outage :-).
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: 3-dB Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'Motorola Canopy User Group' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General
 List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:30 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] Thieves Steal Tower


 Anyone see this: http://www.wjactv.com/news/17432092/detail.html

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks





 
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Re: [WISPA] Thieves Steal Tower

2008-09-10 Thread RickG
Too bad you couldnt do something like this:
http://www.24x7updates.com/FullStory-News-Remote_control_rifle_range_debuts-ID-32685.html
-R

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Patrick Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Wow. On a similar note:

 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21079972-Our-site-was-vandelized-Sat-morning-and-Sunday-morning


 Patrick Shoemaker
 President, Vector Data Systems LLC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 office: (301) 358-1690 x36
 http://www.vectordatasystems.com


 3-dB Networks wrote:
 Anyone see this: http://www.wjactv.com/news/17432092/detail.html

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks





 
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Re: [WISPA] 2.4 cards for MT AP

2008-09-12 Thread RickG
Whats the best card for WRAP's?
-RickG

On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Brian Rohrbacher
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Apparently they have been hard to find for the last few months, but I have
 heard pretty good things about them.
 I found someone with ten left and took them all.  So, we'll see how they
 work.

 Brian

 Mike Hammett wrote:

 This is an honest question...

 Why does anyone use the SR2 or SR5 anymore when the XR2 and XR5 are out?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:23 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4 cars for MT AP



 SR2

 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


 What are some good cards to use in 2.4 MT APs?


 
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Re: [WISPA] 2.4 cards for MT AP

2008-09-12 Thread RickG
StarOS V2.

On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What software you running?

 RickG wrote:

 Whats the best card for WRAP's?
 -RickG

 On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Brian Rohrbacher
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Apparently they have been hard to find for the last few months, but I have
 heard pretty good things about them.
 I found someone with ten left and took them all.  So, we'll see how they
 work.

 Brian

 Mike Hammett wrote:

 This is an honest question...

 Why does anyone use the SR2 or SR5 anymore when the XR2 and XR5 are out?


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:23 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4 cars for MT AP



 SR2

 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


 What are some good cards to use in 2.4 MT APs?


 
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Re: [WISPA] OT: Ping times.

2008-09-17 Thread RickG
I've got the same issues here. I'm lokking for more bandwidth. -RickG

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am not sure Matt. They manage the router so I have to rely on what they
 tell me. They claim they are bonded and balanced, but howI don't know.

 Scottie

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Matt
 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:09 PM
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Ping times.


 This is a 2XT1 connection from ATT. We have been having this problem
 for some time, but they keep telling me that the circuit is saturated.
 I have attached a graph from smokeping and one from our out interface
 on our Mikrotik gateway. Please note the eratic pings and some packet
 loss. Any ideas what could be causing this? Its not saturated as you
 can tell from the bandwidth usage at the mikrotik at about 8 PM last
 night compared to the smokeping ping times at around 8 PM.

 Any ideas?

 How are the T1's load balanced?  Being that close to max I would not doubt
 they are saturated at times.  You might ask on the Mikrotik forums for some
 queue tricks to throttle back before latency goes through the roof for all
 users.

 Matt


 
 
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[WISPA] New Salisbury, Indiana

2008-09-17 Thread RickG
I have a great commercial customer who needs service in New Salisbury Indiana.
-RickG



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[WISPA] Tranzeo TR-5800

2008-09-17 Thread RickG
I have acquired one Tranzeo TR-5800. Does anyone have a match? If so,
I'd buy it or sell them this one? Feel free to contact me off list.
Thanks! -RickG



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Re: [WISPA] routers

2008-09-21 Thread RickG
Consumer routers are going to be the death of me. I've tried almost
all of them. Every year the off the shelf retailers take turn
providing the better unit, or worst unit depending on how you look at
it. As Travis said, consumers are not techies and can only handle a
browser configurable router that doesnt cost over $100. To that end,
you would think there would be a good unit that can do the simple job
asked of it. So far, the winner this year is the Linksys WRT310N
Wireless-N Gigabit Router. I've been installing them all year and so
far no problems. BTW: The cheaper WRT54G series suck.

-RickG

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 www.routerboard.com might have some useful items.


 Travis Johnson wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm looking for a recommendation on an Ethernet router (two ports or
 more) that is somewhere in between a $50 Linksys and a $500 Cisco ASA.
 Something that will do some basic QoS would be nice. Any suggestions?

 thanks,

 Travis
 Microserv


 
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 --
 Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
 CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project



 
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Re: [WISPA] routers

2008-09-22 Thread RickG
Thats the first thing I do, update the firmware. Sometime it helps but
usually not. The darn things just are flaky!

On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Have you been changing the firmware on them? The majority of the
 problem with consumer routers is the software is built 'fast and
 lose'. I find the WRT54G/GS units to work well once changed. Same for
 the 150/160N. The next largest issue is that they skimp on the
 hardware resources, the 310 has 32mb ram where most other units have
 16 or even as little as 8. That just is not enough with out a well
 produced firmware.

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 5:54 PM, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Consumer routers are going to be the death of me. I've tried almost
 all of them. Every year the off the shelf retailers take turn
 providing the better unit, or worst unit depending on how you look at
 it. As Travis said, consumers are not techies and can only handle a
 browser configurable router that doesnt cost over $100. To that end,
 you would think there would be a good unit that can do the simple job
 asked of it. So far, the winner this year is the Linksys WRT310N
 Wireless-N Gigabit Router. I've been installing them all year and so
 far no problems. BTW: The cheaper WRT54G series suck.

 -RickG

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 www.routerboard.com might have some useful items.


 Travis Johnson wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm looking for a recommendation on an Ethernet router (two ports or
 more) that is somewhere in between a $50 Linksys and a $500 Cisco ASA.
 Something that will do some basic QoS would be nice. Any suggestions?

 thanks,

 Travis
 Microserv


 
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 --
 Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
 CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project



 
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Re: [WISPA] routers

2008-09-22 Thread RickG
Ruckus media flex are over $100.

On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Whats not under $100?

 On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 1:34 PM, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Nice try but I said under $100 :)

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:51 PM, CHUCK  PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ruckus media flex

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] routers

 Consumer routers are going to be the death of me. I've tried almost
 all of them. Every year the off the shelf retailers take turn
 providing the better unit, or worst unit depending on how you look at
 it. As Travis said, consumers are not techies and can only handle a
 browser configurable router that doesnt cost over $100. To that end,
 you would think there would be a good unit that can do the simple job
 asked of it. So far, the winner this year is the Linksys WRT310N
 Wireless-N Gigabit Router. I've been installing them all year and so
 far no problems. BTW: The cheaper WRT54G series suck.

 -RickG

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 www.routerboard.com might have some useful items.


 Travis Johnson wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm looking for a recommendation on an Ethernet router (two ports or
 more) that is somewhere in between a $50 Linksys and a $500 Cisco ASA.
 Something that will do some basic QoS would be nice. Any suggestions?

 thanks,

 Travis
 Microserv



 
 
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 --
 Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
 CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




 
 
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Re: [WISPA] routers

2008-09-22 Thread RickG
I agree with that - power really sucks here.

On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I wonder what model/release your having issues with? Ive got a WRT54G
 with over a 150day uptime. I would say maybe 2% of my users have UPS's
 so every 10~14 days everything is reset. Maybe the craptastic power
 out here is helping network stability with forced power cycling =-)

 On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 1:35 PM, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thats the first thing I do, update the firmware. Sometime it helps but
 usually not. The darn things just are flaky!

 On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Have you been changing the firmware on them? The majority of the
 problem with consumer routers is the software is built 'fast and
 lose'. I find the WRT54G/GS units to work well once changed. Same for
 the 150/160N. The next largest issue is that they skimp on the
 hardware resources, the 310 has 32mb ram where most other units have
 16 or even as little as 8. That just is not enough with out a well
 produced firmware.

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 5:54 PM, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Consumer routers are going to be the death of me. I've tried almost
 all of them. Every year the off the shelf retailers take turn
 providing the better unit, or worst unit depending on how you look at
 it. As Travis said, consumers are not techies and can only handle a
 browser configurable router that doesnt cost over $100. To that end,
 you would think there would be a good unit that can do the simple job
 asked of it. So far, the winner this year is the Linksys WRT310N
 Wireless-N Gigabit Router. I've been installing them all year and so
 far no problems. BTW: The cheaper WRT54G series suck.

 -RickG

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 www.routerboard.com might have some useful items.


 Travis Johnson wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm looking for a recommendation on an Ethernet router (two ports or
 more) that is somewhere in between a $50 Linksys and a $500 Cisco ASA.
 Something that will do some basic QoS would be nice. Any suggestions?

 thanks,

 Travis
 Microserv


 
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 --
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 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
 CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project



 
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Archives

Re: [WISPA] Bad radio?

2008-09-28 Thread RickG
It would be interesting to switch the freqs around and see what
happens. It's probably a bad radio or cable though. -RickG

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Does this seem like the radio isn't loud enough?

 I setup the test CPE on the TV tower at my house and pointed it at the tower. 
  Radio Mobile reports the azimuth as 250 degrees, so well within the south 
 sector's coverage and only at a distance of 230'.  I am well below the 
 vertical beamwidth of the sectors, explaining the relatively low signals, but 
 ICS2 is horrible.

 1 = North, 2 = South, 3 = West, 4 = East.

 It makes no sense that South is that much worse signal wise than the others, 
 especially considering that it should be on the South sector anyway.  3 and 4 
 are SR5s while 1 and 2 are XR5s.  I just replaced the towers with the XR5s.



 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Test Platform]  /interface wireless scan wlan1
 Flags: A - active, B - bss, P - privacy, R - routeros-network, N - nstreme
  ADDRESS   SSID  BAND   FREQ SIG 
 NF  SNR RADIO-NAME
 AB R  00:15:6D:50:16:C6 ICS3  5ghz   5745 -72 
 -99 27  00156D5016C6
 AB R  00:15:6D:50:17:09 ICS4  5ghz   5765 -68 
 -99 31  00156D501709
 AB R  00:15:6D:64:0B:59 ICS1  5ghz   5785 -77 
 -99 22  00156D640B59
 AB R  00:15:6D:64:0B:55 ICS2  5ghz   5825 -85 
 -99 14  00156D640B55


 Here is a listing of the signals when connected:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Test Platform]  /interface wireless monitor wlan1
 status: connected-to-ess
   band: 5ghz
  frequency: 5785MHz
tx-rate: 6Mbps
rx-rate: 6Mbps
   ssid: ICS1
  bssid: 00:15:6D:64:0B:59
 radio-name: 00156D640B59
signal-strength: -77dBm
 tx-signal-strength: -74dBm
noise-floor: -107dBm
signal-to-noise: 30dB
 tx-ccq: 58%
   p-throughput: 5481
 overall-tx-ccq: 58%
  authenticated-clients: 1
current-ack-timeout: 28
   wds-link: no
nstreme: no
   framing-mode: none
   routeros-version: 2.9.51
last-ip: 10.10.1.1
802.1x-port-enabled: yes
compression: no
  current-tx-powers: 
 6Mbps:24(24),9Mbps:24(24),12Mbps:24(24),18Mbps:24(24),24Mbps:24(24),36Mbps:22(22),48Mbps:20(20),54Mbps:19(19)
notify-external-fdb: no


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Test Platform]  /interface wireless monitor wlan1
 status: connected-to-ess
   band: 5ghz
  frequency: 5825MHz
tx-rate: 6Mbps
rx-rate: 6Mbps
   ssid: ICS2
  bssid: 00:15:6D:64:0B:55
 radio-name: 00156D640B55
signal-strength: -86dBm
 tx-signal-strength: -76dBm
noise-floor: -107dBm
signal-to-noise: 21dB
 tx-ccq: 59%
   p-throughput: 5535
 overall-tx-ccq: 58%
  authenticated-clients: 1
current-ack-timeout: 167
   wds-link: no
nstreme: no
   framing-mode: none
   routeros-version: 2.9.51
802.1x-port-enabled: yes
compression: no
  current-tx-powers: 
 6Mbps:24(24),9Mbps:24(24),12Mbps:24(24),18Mbps:24(24),24Mbps:24(24),36Mbps:22(22),48Mbps:20(20),54Mbps:19(19)
notify-external-fdb: no
 -- [Q quit|D dump|C-z pause]


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Test Platform]  /interface wireless monitor wlan1
 status: connected-to-ess
   band: 5ghz
  frequency: 5745MHz
tx-rate: 6Mbps
rx-rate: 6Mbps
   ssid: ICS3
  bssid: 00:15:6D:50:16:C6
 radio-name: 00156D5016C6
signal-strength: -74dBm
 tx-signal-strength: -70dBm
noise-floor: -106dBm
signal-to-noise: 32dB
 tx-ccq: 59%
   p-throughput: 5518
 overall-tx-ccq: 59%
  authenticated-clients: 1
current-ack-timeout: 28
   wds-link: no
nstreme: no
   framing-mode: none
   routeros-version: 2.9.51
last-ip: 10.10.3.5
802.1x-port-enabled: yes
compression: no
  current-tx-powers: 
 6Mbps:24(24),9Mbps:24(24),12Mbps:24(24),18Mbps:24(24),24Mbps:24(24),36Mbps:22(22),48Mbps:20(20),54Mbps:19(19)
notify-external-fdb: no

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Test Platform]  /interface wireless monitor wlan1
 status: connected-to-ess
   band: 5ghz
  frequency: 5765MHz
tx-rate: 6Mbps
rx-rate: 6Mbps
   ssid: ICS4
  bssid: 00:15:6D:50:17:09
 radio-name: 00156D501709
signal-strength: -69dBm
 tx-signal-strength: -69dBm
noise-floor: -106dBm
signal

Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

2008-10-09 Thread RickG
Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
 districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of
 goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not shown any
 telephone company to be misusing this money.

 And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money is
 from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is revenue
 pooling and re-distribution.

 So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion.
 If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the
 local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the misuse.
 The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to
 rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business plan
 around tapping the USF for all it could get.



 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

2008-10-09 Thread RickG
I'll stand up for Marlon here: He is a veteran WISP'er and I have
never seen him post babble let alone mindless. I worked for a
phone company - it is a racket. -RickG

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
 I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
 posted mindless babble


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message -
 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


 If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
 right in the head...



 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
 It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to prove
 that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
 But
 think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
 class
 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.




 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

2008-10-09 Thread RickG
Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay?
Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
I really off base here?
-RickG

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
 Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
 You do not have to participate.
 Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
 That is not a tax.

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


 Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG

 On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
 districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of
 goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not shown
 any
 telephone company to be misusing this money.

 And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money is
 from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is revenue
 pooling and re-distribution.

 So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this
 discussion.
 If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at
 the
 local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
 misuse.
 The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service
 to
 rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business
 plan
 around tapping the USF for all it could get.



 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

2008-10-09 Thread RickG
Chuck, I was speaking about more recent times, not the origination of
the system and it's beginnings. What I am referring to is exactly what
you said is - Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly
and to tax it. The current phone system was built out with much
funding coming from tax dollars. With that said, the American tax
payer has paid for the network and continues to pay, correct?
-RickG

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
 It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire
 pole lines by himself.
 He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his
 system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us government.
 You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower
 through money that flows from that program to the general fund.

 Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by
 taxes?
 When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old ATT.

 How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there was
 a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same
 city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax
 it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.


 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


 Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay?
 Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
 utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
 that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
 than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
 I really off base here?
 -RickG

 On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
 Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
 You do not have to participate.
 Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
 That is not a tax.

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


 Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG

 On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
 districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider
 of
 goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not
 shown
 any
 telephone company to be misusing this money.

 And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money
 is
 from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is
 revenue
 pooling and re-distribution.

 So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this
 discussion.
 If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at
 the
 local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
 misuse.
 The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots
 service
 to
 rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business
 plan
 around tapping the USF for all it could get.



 
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Re: [WISPA] referral programs

2008-10-12 Thread RickG
Travis,

I thought it was you who once told me never give anything away for
free. I've been sticking to that as best as possible with my company
and whenever I stray from it I get bit each time. I find that the only
people who truly appreciate our service are the ones who pay. In fact,
the more the pay, the more they appreciate it. The people I gave deal
to are the worst customers.
With that said, we are kicking around giving $20 cash for each
referral. I've done this in my past life as head of internet companies
and people love cash! If you really want to make some news, give
matching dollars to the charity of your choice.

Just my .02 :)
-RickG

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I'd like to hear about any referral programs that anyone has implemented
 that seem to be working well. I heard about one a few months ago that I
 thought was very interesting:

 For every customer that signs up and is installed, the referring
 customer gets a month free. The real deal is after 5 referrals, that
 customer gets their internet for free for life (or as long as they have
 at least 5 people referred and still active). Now, I know this sounds a
 little scary, that you may give away 20% of your service... but the
 thing that was interesting is the person taking about this said 99% of
 their customers never reached 5 referrals. Most would get 2 or 3, and
 then that was it.

 Thoughts? Ideas? I'm ready to try something. :)

 Travis
 Microserv


 
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Re: [WISPA] referral programs

2008-10-13 Thread RickG
Well, it was a few years back when we gave $20 but maybe I need to
consider inflation :)
I'm sure $50 would get more excitement.
I tried referrals for employees before but it always led to false
reports  corruption as the employees would lie where the lead came
from.
The hardest part is tracking everything. Especially if you create a
MLM system like you were talking about although I'm sure there is
software for that.

-RickG

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rick,

 It probably was me that said never give anything away for free... because
 then there is no value in it to the customer.

 However, I think there is value in this type of a referral system. You are
 basically having all your existing customers act as salespeople. And really
 you are giving away a month for each referral until they get five... and how
 many are EVER going to get more than 3 or 4?

 I guess another idea would be like you said, give them cash. I'm just not
 sure $20 is enough... maybe $50 per referral would get things rolling? :)

 On a slightly different topic, we do give every employee $20 for any
 referral (that includes installers, receptionists, bookkeepers, tech
 support, etc.). This has worked VERY well and I'm sure has paid for itself
 every single month from new customers.

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 I thought it was you who once told me never give anything away for
 free. I've been sticking to that as best as possible with my company
 and whenever I stray from it I get bit each time. I find that the only
 people who truly appreciate our service are the ones who pay. In fact,
 the more the pay, the more they appreciate it. The people I gave deal
 to are the worst customers.
 With that said, we are kicking around giving $20 cash for each
 referral. I've done this in my past life as head of internet companies
 and people love cash! If you really want to make some news, give
 matching dollars to the charity of your choice.

 Just my .02 :)
 -RickG

 On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Hi,

 I'd like to hear about any referral programs that anyone has implemented
 that seem to be working well. I heard about one a few months ago that I
 thought was very interesting:

 For every customer that signs up and is installed, the referring
 customer gets a month free. The real deal is after 5 referrals, that
 customer gets their internet for free for life (or as long as they have
 at least 5 people referred and still active). Now, I know this sounds a
 little scary, that you may give away 20% of your service... but the
 thing that was interesting is the person taking about this said 99% of
 their customers never reached 5 referrals. Most would get 2 or 3, and
 then that was it.

 Thoughts? Ideas? I'm ready to try something. :)

 Travis
 Microserv


 
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Re: [WISPA] [Tranzeo] New Update - Tranzeo/Mtik disconnect issueOct7th, 2008

2008-10-13 Thread RickG
Great post Tom!
As I mentioned earlier, we used to give $20. A study by my marketing
person showed 90% of our new installs were referrals. The interesting
part was when asked, the referrer said they would've provided the
referral whether or not the $20 was offered.
-RickG

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 1. Anyone have any idea what percentage of customers provide referrals, with
 a program like free month for each referral?

 2. Has anyone asked their customers that have not provided referrals, what
 would be adequate incentive for them to be willing to?

 3. How well do these programs work for residential versus business?

 I'm just asking because... Some of our customers have said that the did not
 refer because
 a)  its against their corporate policy to give referrals.
 b) afraid their service would slow down because, there would be less
 capacity available to themselves afterwords.
 c) they did not want to be held accountable for their implied indorsement,
 if service for the new referred to company did not work out well.
 d) the compensation amounts were not significant enough for them to extend
 the effort, or track it..
 e) There job was not to be our salesman, that was our job.
 f) They already refer, and they'd already do that regardless of getting any
 payment compensation, so compensation unnecessary. They'd rather us put that
 money into maintaining/upgrading our network.
 g) It was unclear whether the appropriate person would get compensation. For
 example, if a employee made the referral, they personally would have very
 little benefit for their employer to save and get a month free.

 What I'm most interested in is What would encourage a higher number of
 customers to start referring qualified leads.

 One potential negative I predicted was that referrals would come in as
 unqualified leads. Previously leads came in for areas that we could not
 serve.
 I made that mistake advertising residential in the yelloe pages. So much of
 my time was wasted on leads that would never be feasible to close.
 Just doing the Google map pre-surveys would kill half the day, and could
 burry productivity for a small staffed company. Leads aren;t good, unless
 there is a high chance that the lead will materialize. So this brings me
 back to How will the promotion incourage the customer to bring in
 qualified leads? How will the customer understand who would be qualified?
 Thats why I like stipulatons such as We pay you X, if you refer a
 customer in your building or in your neighborhood, or within 1/2 mile
 of your address. Etc Etc.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Steve Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:09 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Tranzeo] New Update - Tranzeo/Mtik disconnect
 issueOct7th, 2008


 How is the MT/Tranzeo Beta Firmware working?  I have issues when the
 disconnect happens the AP shows horrible signals from the Tranzeo's
 (-105 to -113) but if you start a ping to that radio it drops back to
 -69.  Is this resolved as well?  If I reboot the AP all the signals are
 fine.

 Steve Barnes
 RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott
 Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:03 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
 Cc: Tranzeo Support
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Tranzeo] New Update - Tranzeo/Mtik disconnect
 issueOct 7th, 2008

 Since Damian has made this public, I guess I can talk about this
 testing

 I have been using their beta software for over 2 weeks now and I have
 uptimes that long as well.

 I will not disagree with Damian regarding the mtik patch. :)

 This **IS** an Mtik issue and affects more than just Tranzeo devices.

 ryan


 On Oct 7, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Damian Wallace wrote:



 MT has made several betas available for testing.  The results are
 promising, but we aren't running real clients on the MT.

 We also have an extremely hacky way of dealing with this issue.  We
 have
 an alpha available for this on a Non-Supported basis.  When this
 feature
 is turned on, you have to reboot the AP when management changes like
 channel are made.

 You can get a copy of the alpha by emailing support.  They will send
 you
 a copy of the firmware and a warning that this breaks a lot of ways AP
 send management frames, and that we don't support it.  We think you
 are
 better off to use the Microtik patch since it should solve the problem
 for all units, not just Tranzeos.




 ***
 Register your services in our FREE WISP Locator
 http://www.part-15.org/maps/WISPSearch.asp
 ***
 The PART-15.ORG tranzeo Discussion List
 This is a Paid Subscription Email Discussion List Service.
 All rights reserved. All content becomes the sole

Re: [WISPA] NOGO's

2008-10-13 Thread RickG
About 35%. You cant get them all. What do you think an acceptable
number would be?
-RickG

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Along a different line... What is everyone's percentage on NOGO's
 (that's what we call people we try to install and can't get a good
 enough signal)? Ours was quite a bit higher than I thought when I looked
 a few days ago... Out of 1,500+ completed installs during the last 12
 months, we had 208 people we couldn't install successfully. If we only
 had more time to find more tower locations... :(

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
 We always assume we will get a signal.  We are rarely wrong.
   - Original Message -
   From: Travis Johnson
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List
   Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 9:07 PM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Tranzeo] New Update - Tranzeo/Mtik 
 disconnectissueOct7th, 2008


   So there are people that don't roll a truck because some software says you 
 may not be able to get a connection? That seems like a pretty poor idea to 
 me... we have clients that we had to try 3 or 4 different towers with 2 or 3 
 different frequencies before we get a good signal. This tool may have 
 disqualified that customer, yet we got them installed.

   Plus, how do you know if you want to make their location your next 
 repeater to service that area if you just tell them no over the phone? ;)

   Travis
   Microserv

   Brian Webster wrote:
 On the topic of knowing if the lead was qualified and you could offer
 service to that lead location (start shameless plug), I know of a company
 that can provide you with an inexpensive tool to do a lookup by address and
 give the answer while still on the phone.. As some of the folks on this
 list who already use it for their opinion of how well it works and increases
 productivity and decrease truck rolls to bad installs.



 Thank You,
 Brian Webster
 www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:46 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Tranzeo] New Update - Tranzeo/Mtik
 disconnectissueOct7th, 2008


 Great post Tom!
 As I mentioned earlier, we used to give $20. A study by my marketing
 person showed 90% of our new installs were referrals. The interesting
 part was when asked, the referrer said they would've provided the
 referral whether or not the $20 was offered.
 -RickG

 On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   1. Anyone have any idea what percentage of customers provide referrals,
 with
   a program like free month for each referral?

 2. Has anyone asked their customers that have not provided referrals, what
 would be adequate incentive for them to be willing to?

 3. How well do these programs work for residential versus business?

 I'm just asking because... Some of our customers have said that the did
 not
   refer because
 a)  its against their corporate policy to give referrals.
 b) afraid their service would slow down because, there would be less
 capacity available to themselves afterwords.
 c) they did not want to be held accountable for their implied indorsement,
 if service for the new referred to company did not work out well.
 d) the compensation amounts were not significant enough for them to extend
 the effort, or track it..
 e) There job was not to be our salesman, that was our job.
 f) They already refer, and they'd already do that regardless of getting
 any
   payment compensation, so compensation unnecessary. They'd rather us put
 that
   money into maintaining/upgrading our network.
 g) It was unclear whether the appropriate person would get compensation.
 For
   example, if a employee made the referral, they personally would have very
 little benefit for their employer to save and get a month free.

 What I'm most interested in is What would encourage a higher number of
 customers to start referring qualified leads.

 One potential negative I predicted was that referrals would come in as
 unqualified leads. Previously leads came in for areas that we could not
 serve.
 I made that mistake advertising residential in the yelloe pages. So much
 of
   my time was wasted on leads that would never be feasible to close.
 Just doing the Google map pre-surveys would kill half the day, and could
 burry productivity for a small staffed company. Leads aren;t good, unless
 there is a high chance that the lead will materialize. So this brings me
 back to How will the promotion incourage the customer to bring in
 qualified leads? How will the customer understand who would be qualified?
 Thats why I like stipulatons such as We pay you X, if you refer a
 customer in your building or in your neighborhood, or within 1/2 mile
 of your address. Etc Etc.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless

Re: [WISPA] NOGO's

2008-10-13 Thread RickG
Wow Chuck! You've got it covered! How may square miles dor you service?
-RickG

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 1% or less
 - Original Message -
 From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 9:30 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] NOGO's


 Along a different line... What is everyone's percentage on NOGO's
 (that's what we call people we try to install and can't get a good
 enough signal)? Ours was quite a bit higher than I thought when I looked
 a few days ago... Out of 1,500+ completed installs during the last 12
 months, we had 208 people we couldn't install successfully. If we only
 had more time to find more tower locations... :(

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
 We always assume we will get a signal.  We are rarely wrong.
   - Original Message -
   From: Travis Johnson
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List
   Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 9:07 PM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Tranzeo] New Update - Tranzeo/Mtik
 disconnectissueOct7th, 2008


   So there are people that don't roll a truck because some software says
 you may not be able to get a connection? That seems like a pretty poor
 idea to me... we have clients that we had to try 3 or 4 different towers
 with 2 or 3 different frequencies before we get a good signal. This
 tool may have disqualified that customer, yet we got them installed.

   Plus, how do you know if you want to make their location your next
 repeater to service that area if you just tell them no over the phone? ;)

   Travis
   Microserv

   Brian Webster wrote:
 On the topic of knowing if the lead was qualified and you could offer
 service to that lead location (start shameless plug), I know of a company
 that can provide you with an inexpensive tool to do a lookup by address
 and
 give the answer while still on the phone.. As some of the folks on
 this
 list who already use it for their opinion of how well it works and
 increases
 productivity and decrease truck rolls to bad installs.



 Thank You,
 Brian Webster
 www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:46 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Tranzeo] New Update - Tranzeo/Mtik
 disconnectissueOct7th, 2008


 Great post Tom!
 As I mentioned earlier, we used to give $20. A study by my marketing
 person showed 90% of our new installs were referrals. The interesting
 part was when asked, the referrer said they would've provided the
 referral whether or not the $20 was offered.
 -RickG

 On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   1. Anyone have any idea what percentage of customers provide referrals,
 with
   a program like free month for each referral?

 2. Has anyone asked their customers that have not provided referrals,
 what
 would be adequate incentive for them to be willing to?

 3. How well do these programs work for residential versus business?

 I'm just asking because... Some of our customers have said that the did
 not
   refer because
 a)  its against their corporate policy to give referrals.
 b) afraid their service would slow down because, there would be less
 capacity available to themselves afterwords.
 c) they did not want to be held accountable for their implied
 indorsement,
 if service for the new referred to company did not work out well.
 d) the compensation amounts were not significant enough for them to
 extend
 the effort, or track it..
 e) There job was not to be our salesman, that was our job.
 f) They already refer, and they'd already do that regardless of getting
 any
   payment compensation, so compensation unnecessary. They'd rather us put
 that
   money into maintaining/upgrading our network.
 g) It was unclear whether the appropriate person would get compensation.
 For
   example, if a employee made the referral, they personally would have
 very
 little benefit for their employer to save and get a month free.

 What I'm most interested in is What would encourage a higher number
 of
 customers to start referring qualified leads.

 One potential negative I predicted was that referrals would come in as
 unqualified leads. Previously leads came in for areas that we could not
 serve.
 I made that mistake advertising residential in the yelloe pages. So much
 of
   my time was wasted on leads that would never be feasible to close.
 Just doing the Google map pre-surveys would kill half the day, and could
 burry productivity for a small staffed company. Leads aren;t good, unless
 there is a high chance that the lead will materialize. So this brings me
 back to How will the promotion incourage the customer to bring in
 qualified leads? How will the customer understand who would be qualified?
 Thats why I like stipulatons such as We pay you X

Re: [WISPA] NOC

2008-10-22 Thread RickG
Not bad but the CRT's are not impressive. I figure there should be
LCD's in their place. -RickG

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Here's a NOC...

 http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/images/media/photos/73764g2_hires.jpg


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 
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Re: [WISPA] Dual Power Supply, how to?

2008-10-23 Thread RickG
Why not use two power supplies, one on the dc jack and the other on
the poe connection? -RickG

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello all

 Im looking for a way to add redundant power to my mikrotik routers at
 the towers,  The routers have a DC jack, so im looking for options..

 Anything available? Or would I have to make my own?

 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145



 
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Re: [WISPA] NOC

2008-10-23 Thread RickG
That explains it :)

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Scott Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 08:35:21PM -0400, RickG wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Here's a NOC...
 
  http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/images/media/photos/73764g2_hires.jpg

 Not bad but the CRT's are not impressive. I figure there should be
 LCD's in their place. -RickG

 The picture is from 1999.

 --
 Scott LambertKC5MLE   Unix SysAdmin
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 
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Re: [WISPA] Dual Power Supply, how to?

2008-10-24 Thread RickG
Nope, I already tested it. -RickG

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:08 AM, Josh Luthman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am no electrician by any means but I think using both the DC jack and PoE,
 technically speaking, would freak the board's power supply out.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:33 AM, CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 OK guys, don't LOL, I'm just a farm boy, but...
 Why couldn't you put two power supplies together into one plug, then if one
 failed the other would do full duty. Would a diode inline on both stop a
 possible transformer shorting the other out or draining  the power from the
 good one?
 Can that work?

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Power Supply, how to?

 Why not use two power supplies, one on the dc jack and the other on
 the poe connection? -RickG

 On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hello all
 
  Im looking for a way to add redundant power to my mikrotik routers at
  the towers,  The routers have a DC jack, so im looking for options..
 
  Anything available? Or would I have to make my own?
 
  Gino A. Villarini
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
  tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 
 
 

 
 
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Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers

2008-11-01 Thread RickG
Kurt,

I tell them that they need to consider a higher rate package with
dedicated bandwidth rather than shared bandwidth.

-RickG

On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth that
 you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And what
 do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down speed.
 (they don't know your throttling them though)



 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com









 
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Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers

2008-11-02 Thread RickG
Yes. -RickG

On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 8:42 PM, Josh Luthman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rick,

 When you reference Trango are you referring to the Access 5800 series?




 On 11/1/08, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I agree with Tom. I tried Canopy but didnt like this aspect of it. So,
 I continued using Trango and love them! -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Chuck,

 Not to rain on your parade but... I'm a little confused on how 10.2 mbps
 is
 possible w/ Canopy. Advantage series peak capacity is just for short range
 customers, and a large percentage of the capacity can be voided by by the
 farther out slower non-advantage CPEs. When Up/down rate ratios have to be
 pre-fined (for syncing) that limits the radio from using the ful capacity
 of
 the Radio.  Its one of the big reasons that we chose Trango 8 years ago
 originally, so that it was infact possible to get full radio speed in one
 direction  when it was available in low usage time, so we could quote
 higher
 speeds to business symetrical customers.

 Sure, if we consider 14mb real world advantage best case for Advantage
 series, use all advantage series CPE, and do a 70 / 30 download to upload,
 sure 10mbps peak downloads are possible for a single client, in that
 scenario.  Provided that the WISP was fine with all other customers being
 100% STARVED at the time the one customer was monopolizing the peak
 capacity.
 We tried that once, and it was a big mistake because it caused latency to
 sky rocket for all the other customers when they first attempted to use
 capacity, and the feel of the circuit because very bursty feeling. The
 short
 pauses made it feel like something was wrong with the circuit. TCP could
 not
 deal with it properly, it needs time to tune.  Because of TCP's reaction,
 it
 actually translated to a slower experience than if we just gave customers
 half the speed.  So My Points is

 Your concept of bursting a HIGH capacity for short periods is a sound
 concept, provided that you never let one cusomer have ALL your bandwdith.
 Headroom is needed. We found that if we let our customers burst to half
 the
 radio full capacity, we could use the same technique sucessfully because
 all
 the other subs were NEVER starved from bandwidth.

 We tried pushing the limits, such as allowing  7-8mb out of the 10mb, but
 it
 was to risky to do that because there were times when the full 10mbps was
 not achieve, such as when link quality degraded and retransmission occured
 do to RF packetloss, or when small packets were being used instead of pull
 packet size. Customers would suffer with the effects of non bandwdith
 shaping.
 There was also some issues with how well bandwdith shaping worked on Intel
 systems at 10mbps, as 10mbps speeds is about the peak speed before it
 exceed
 Intel's interupt clock limits of 100 ticks per second, nor was common Fair
 Weighted Queuing method able to be operation simultanoeus to trying to be
 used with Burst bucket type queuing. (Unless you aren't using Intel)

 So if we have a 10mbps HDX radio, we would sell peak 5 mbps services, and
 this would allow us to deliver good non-bursty performance without delays,
 and let us acheive high over subscription rates.  And if we had a FDX
 imulated radio, that downloaded at 10mbps, again 5mbps would be the peak
 speed we allowed in our bursting.

 To keep it Real, With Canopy Advantage series, I'd highly recommend to
 WISPs
 that they do not commit to offer peak speeds above 5mbps per customer. It
 can result in severe degration at some customers sites that could be going
 on, and the WISP never really know it if they weren't sitting in front of
 the end user computers experiencing exactly what the end user was
 experienceing.   And if you don't believe me, and want to push the limits,
 maybe 7mbps, but anything above that... its getting risky.

 That is provided that you'd be advertising Real Transfer Speed, instead of
 gross over the air speed.  There have been some WISP that have quoted
 11mbps for 2.4Ghz DSSS wifi systems that could only pass 3mbps, because
 they quoted Hardware gross specs and not real throughput.  But in todays
 world, that is gettign harder and harder to do, with the many online speed
 test sites that are becoming common practice for end users to use to test
 their speeds.  Its darn near impossible to get a full 10mbps speed test
 result from these test sites over a wireless nework, and much easier to
 achieve a 5mbps test, do to the distance, windowsize, latency variables
 that
 can effect TCP's real world throughput. (For example, 64k windowsize at
 80ms, will only allow about a 3mbps transfer to occur).

 Don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing Canopy... We have actually started
 to use some Canopy Advantage series on our shorter range sectors, where
 verticle pol was free. (because we can find them on EBAY cheap, with all
 the
 Muni projects going south).  I'm actually very impressed

Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers

2008-11-02 Thread RickG
Travis,

Nice work! Therefore, you are selling dedicated bandwidth to all of
your customers. In other words, if all your customers run speed test
at the same time they will get what their plan allows. If you dont
mind, I have a few questions:
Is the above scenario true for upload speed as well as download speed?
What are you paying for your upstream connection?
What type of upstream connection do you have?

I'd like to be there and I keep hoping cheap bandwidth comes my way.
When you are paying $150/meg for download and $400/meg for upload, the
business model is tough.

-RickG

BTW: I'd take this offlist if you prefer but I think this is a problem
that many us us small WISP's face.

On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Every customer can get the speed they are paying for ANY time they run a
 speed test. We offer packages from 512k to 2.5meg for residential customers
 and they always get what they pay for (download AND upload, which is the
 same for all of our packages).

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 If I understand this correctly, you have at least 1Mbps or higher of
 bandwidth for every customer?

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 We deliver what the customers pay for. If they purchase a 1Mbps package,
 they get 1Mbps 24x7 (with no monthly bit caps). Personally I have never
 liked the up to speed packages... it's like going to Walmart and
 buying milk. You can pay $3 for a full 1 gallon, or you can pay $2 for
 up to a gallon (without really knowing how much you are going to get,
 but it will be somewhere between nothing and a full gallon).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


 Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth that
 you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And what
 do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down speed.
 (they don't know your throttling them though)



 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com









 
 
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Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers

2008-11-02 Thread RickG
Wow, with all that bandwidth, I'm surprised you dont offer higher speeds.

Technically speaking, the download  upload price is the same. From a
cost standpoint, I allocate the download  upload separately because I
am forced to pay dearly ($1200/month) to ATT for my dual T1's which
are required for decent upload speeds. Right now, my traffic is
split so all port 80 traffic flows though the 4Mbps x 2Mbps connection
through Time Warner which runs over $500/month. This works fairly well
for now since about half the traffic is web browsing. When I bought
this WISP there was no management, monitoring or reporting. I took
care of the management  monitoring and I'm working on the reporting.
The best thing I've done is replace the StarOS firewall with Mikrotik
and set up traffic priority.
Whew! Lots of work. At any rate, I'm working on my upstream connection
next. I really need to get the cost down.

Thanks! -RickG

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rick,

 Yes, all of our packages are symmetrical speeds (same download and upload).
 So if they buy our 512k package, they get 512k down x 512k up all the time.
 They are not dedicated connections, but rather you get what you pay for
 connections. We still oversubscribe users on an AP, but only to the point
 where each AP is running around 60% capacity during peak times, thus leaving
 room for bursts, etc. We graph and monitor every single AP (over 200 of
 them) and every single user (bandwidth, packets, RSSI, etc.) so we always
 know what's happening on our network.

 We currently have three full OC-3 (155Mbps) dedicated connections to the
 backbone. On average, we pay $40/meg for bandwidth. Why is your upload price
 different than your download price?

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 Nice work! Therefore, you are selling dedicated bandwidth to all of
 your customers. In other words, if all your customers run speed test
 at the same time they will get what their plan allows. If you dont
 mind, I have a few questions:
 Is the above scenario true for upload speed as well as download speed?
 What are you paying for your upstream connection?
 What type of upstream connection do you have?

 I'd like to be there and I keep hoping cheap bandwidth comes my way.
 When you are paying $150/meg for download and $400/meg for upload, the
 business model is tough.

 -RickG

 BTW: I'd take this offlist if you prefer but I think this is a problem
 that many us us small WISP's face.

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Every customer can get the speed they are paying for ANY time they run a
 speed test. We offer packages from 512k to 2.5meg for residential customers
 and they always get what they pay for (download AND upload, which is the
 same for all of our packages).

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 If I understand this correctly, you have at least 1Mbps or higher of
 bandwidth for every customer?

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 We deliver what the customers pay for. If they purchase a 1Mbps package,
 they get 1Mbps 24x7 (with no monthly bit caps). Personally I have never
 liked the up to speed packages... it's like going to Walmart and
 buying milk. You can pay $3 for a full 1 gallon, or you can pay $2 for
 up to a gallon (without really knowing how much you are going to get,
 but it will be somewhere between nothing and a full gallon).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


 Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth that
 you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And what
 do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down speed.
 (they don't know your throttling them though)



 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com









 
 
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Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers

2008-11-02 Thread RickG
I agree but I didnt select the speed and price plans, I bought the
company with these already in place. BUT everyone is complaining that
3Mbps isnt enough and I'm not keeping up! All they see is cable  DSL
commercials selling 10Mbps and 6Mbps respectively. Egads!!!
-RickG

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I guess that's my point... why offer more bandwidth than you have to? Most
 people don't need more than 1meg, and that's our most popular package for
 $39.95 per month (total, no modem rental fee, etc.). Why give away the farm
 if you don't have to? :)

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Wow, with all that bandwidth, I'm surprised you dont offer higher speeds.

 Technically speaking, the download  upload price is the same. From a
 cost standpoint, I allocate the download  upload separately because I
 am forced to pay dearly ($1200/month) to ATT for my dual T1's which
 are required for decent upload speeds. Right now, my traffic is
 split so all port 80 traffic flows though the 4Mbps x 2Mbps connection
 through Time Warner which runs over $500/month. This works fairly well
 for now since about half the traffic is web browsing. When I bought
 this WISP there was no management, monitoring or reporting. I took
 care of the management  monitoring and I'm working on the reporting.
 The best thing I've done is replace the StarOS firewall with Mikrotik
 and set up traffic priority.
 Whew! Lots of work. At any rate, I'm working on my upstream connection
 next. I really need to get the cost down.

 Thanks! -RickG

 On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Rick,

 Yes, all of our packages are symmetrical speeds (same download and upload).
 So if they buy our 512k package, they get 512k down x 512k up all the time.
 They are not dedicated connections, but rather you get what you pay for
 connections. We still oversubscribe users on an AP, but only to the point
 where each AP is running around 60% capacity during peak times, thus leaving
 room for bursts, etc. We graph and monitor every single AP (over 200 of
 them) and every single user (bandwidth, packets, RSSI, etc.) so we always
 know what's happening on our network.

 We currently have three full OC-3 (155Mbps) dedicated connections to the
 backbone. On average, we pay $40/meg for bandwidth. Why is your upload price
 different than your download price?

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 Nice work! Therefore, you are selling dedicated bandwidth to all of
 your customers. In other words, if all your customers run speed test
 at the same time they will get what their plan allows. If you dont
 mind, I have a few questions:
 Is the above scenario true for upload speed as well as download speed?
 What are you paying for your upstream connection?
 What type of upstream connection do you have?

 I'd like to be there and I keep hoping cheap bandwidth comes my way.
 When you are paying $150/meg for download and $400/meg for upload, the
 business model is tough.

 -RickG

 BTW: I'd take this offlist if you prefer but I think this is a problem
 that many us us small WISP's face.

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Every customer can get the speed they are paying for ANY time they run a
 speed test. We offer packages from 512k to 2.5meg for residential customers
 and they always get what they pay for (download AND upload, which is the
 same for all of our packages).

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 If I understand this correctly, you have at least 1Mbps or higher of
 bandwidth for every customer?

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 We deliver what the customers pay for. If they purchase a 1Mbps package,
 they get 1Mbps 24x7 (with no monthly bit caps). Personally I have never
 liked the up to speed packages... it's like going to Walmart and
 buying milk. You can pay $3 for a full 1 gallon, or you can pay $2 for
 up to a gallon (without really knowing how much you are going to get,
 but it will be somewhere between nothing and a full gallon).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


 Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth that
 you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And what
 do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down speed.
 (they don't know your throttling them though)



 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com









 
 
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Re: [WISPA] WiMax (was heavy usage customers)

2008-11-02 Thread RickG
I've seen your website with the comparisons. Very nice. So, have you
been able to test their WiMax yet? -RickG

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have Qwest DSL, CableOne, another WISP (doing up to 4meg for $29.95
 with Canopy), and a licensed WiMax (2.5ghz) provider (doing up to
 2meg, mobile, for $29.95). I have a lot of competition... and yet we
 have no sales people, no real advertising campaign, and more installs
 than we can keep up with each month.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
 You must not have competitors.  I have both Qwest and Comcast giving away 
 multi megabit starting at $15.95
   - Original Message -
   From: Travis Johnson
   To: WISPA General List
   Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:53 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers


   I guess that's my point... why offer more bandwidth than you have to? Most 
 people don't need more than 1meg, and that's our most popular package for 
 $39.95 per month (total, no modem rental fee, etc.). Why give away the farm 
 if you don't have to? :)

   Travis
   Microserv

   RickG wrote:
 Wow, with all that bandwidth, I'm surprised you dont offer higher speeds.

 Technically speaking, the download  upload price is the same. From a
 cost standpoint, I allocate the download  upload separately because I
 am forced to pay dearly ($1200/month) to ATT for my dual T1's which
 are required for decent upload speeds. Right now, my traffic is
 split so all port 80 traffic flows though the 4Mbps x 2Mbps connection
 through Time Warner which runs over $500/month. This works fairly well
 for now since about half the traffic is web browsing. When I bought
 this WISP there was no management, monitoring or reporting. I took
 care of the management  monitoring and I'm working on the reporting.
 The best thing I've done is replace the StarOS firewall with Mikrotik
 and set up traffic priority.
 Whew! Lots of work. At any rate, I'm working on my upstream connection
 next. I really need to get the cost down.

 Thanks! -RickG

 On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Rick,

 Yes, all of our packages are symmetrical speeds (same download and upload).
 So if they buy our 512k package, they get 512k down x 512k up all the time.
 They are not dedicated connections, but rather you get what you pay for
 connections. We still oversubscribe users on an AP, but only to the point
 where each AP is running around 60% capacity during peak times, thus leaving
 room for bursts, etc. We graph and monitor every single AP (over 200 of
 them) and every single user (bandwidth, packets, RSSI, etc.) so we always
 know what's happening on our network.

 We currently have three full OC-3 (155Mbps) dedicated connections to the
 backbone. On average, we pay $40/meg for bandwidth. Why is your upload price
 different than your download price?

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 Nice work! Therefore, you are selling dedicated bandwidth to all of
 your customers. In other words, if all your customers run speed test
 at the same time they will get what their plan allows. If you dont
 mind, I have a few questions:
 Is the above scenario true for upload speed as well as download speed?
 What are you paying for your upstream connection?
 What type of upstream connection do you have?

 I'd like to be there and I keep hoping cheap bandwidth comes my way.
 When you are paying $150/meg for download and $400/meg for upload, the
 business model is tough.

 -RickG

 BTW: I'd take this offlist if you prefer but I think this is a problem
 that many us us small WISP's face.

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Every customer can get the speed they are paying for ANY time they run a
 speed test. We offer packages from 512k to 2.5meg for residential customers
 and they always get what they pay for (download AND upload, which is the
 same for all of our packages).

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 If I understand this correctly, you have at least 1Mbps or higher of
 bandwidth for every customer?

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 We deliver what the customers pay for. If they purchase a 1Mbps package,
 they get 1Mbps 24x7 (with no monthly bit caps). Personally I have never
 liked the up to speed packages... it's like going to Walmart and
 buying milk. You can pay $3 for a full 1 gallon, or you can pay $2 for
 up to a gallon (without really knowing how much you are going to get,
 but it will be somewhere between nothing and a full gallon).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


 Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth that
 you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And what
 do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled down speed.
 (they don't know your throttling them though)



 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box

Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers

2008-11-02 Thread RickG
Interesting subject - quality of service. I give 10 times better
service than the cable and phone companys but this buys me nothing.
People will leave you for as little as $5/month or a lousy $50 gift
card. It kills me!
-RickG

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Well that is a testimony to your quality of service for sure.
 Now, if you were using Canopy your customers would be even happier!

 - Original Message -
 From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:07 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers


I have Qwest DSL, CableOne, another WISP (doing up to 4meg for $29.95
 with Canopy), and a licensed WiMax (2.5ghz) provider (doing up to
 2meg, mobile, for $29.95). I have a lot of competition... and yet we
 have no sales people, no real advertising campaign, and more installs
 than we can keep up with each month.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
 You must not have competitors.  I have both Qwest and Comcast giving away
 multi megabit starting at $15.95
   - Original Message -
   From: Travis Johnson
   To: WISPA General List
   Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:53 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers


   I guess that's my point... why offer more bandwidth than you have to?
 Most people don't need more than 1meg, and that's our most popular
 package for $39.95 per month (total, no modem rental fee, etc.). Why give
 away the farm if you don't have to? :)

   Travis
   Microserv

   RickG wrote:
 Wow, with all that bandwidth, I'm surprised you dont offer higher speeds.

 Technically speaking, the download  upload price is the same. From a
 cost standpoint, I allocate the download  upload separately because I
 am forced to pay dearly ($1200/month) to ATT for my dual T1's which
 are required for decent upload speeds. Right now, my traffic is
 split so all port 80 traffic flows though the 4Mbps x 2Mbps connection
 through Time Warner which runs over $500/month. This works fairly well
 for now since about half the traffic is web browsing. When I bought
 this WISP there was no management, monitoring or reporting. I took
 care of the management  monitoring and I'm working on the reporting.
 The best thing I've done is replace the StarOS firewall with Mikrotik
 and set up traffic priority.
 Whew! Lots of work. At any rate, I'm working on my upstream connection
 next. I really need to get the cost down.

 Thanks! -RickG

 On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Rick,

 Yes, all of our packages are symmetrical speeds (same download and
 upload).
 So if they buy our 512k package, they get 512k down x 512k up all the
 time.
 They are not dedicated connections, but rather you get what you pay for
 connections. We still oversubscribe users on an AP, but only to the point
 where each AP is running around 60% capacity during peak times, thus
 leaving
 room for bursts, etc. We graph and monitor every single AP (over 200 of
 them) and every single user (bandwidth, packets, RSSI, etc.) so we always
 know what's happening on our network.

 We currently have three full OC-3 (155Mbps) dedicated connections to the
 backbone. On average, we pay $40/meg for bandwidth. Why is your upload
 price
 different than your download price?

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 Nice work! Therefore, you are selling dedicated bandwidth to all of
 your customers. In other words, if all your customers run speed test
 at the same time they will get what their plan allows. If you dont
 mind, I have a few questions:
 Is the above scenario true for upload speed as well as download speed?
 What are you paying for your upstream connection?
 What type of upstream connection do you have?

 I'd like to be there and I keep hoping cheap bandwidth comes my way.
 When you are paying $150/meg for download and $400/meg for upload, the
 business model is tough.

 -RickG

 BTW: I'd take this offlist if you prefer but I think this is a problem
 that many us us small WISP's face.

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Every customer can get the speed they are paying for ANY time they run a
 speed test. We offer packages from 512k to 2.5meg for residential
 customers
 and they always get what they pay for (download AND upload, which is the
 same for all of our packages).

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 If I understand this correctly, you have at least 1Mbps or higher of
 bandwidth for every customer?

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 We deliver what the customers pay for. If they purchase a 1Mbps package,
 they get 1Mbps 24x7 (with no monthly bit caps). Personally I have never
 liked the up to speed packages... it's like going to Walmart and
 buying milk. You can pay $3 for a full 1 gallon, or you can pay $2 for
 up to a gallon (without really knowing how

Re: [WISPA] WiMax (was heavy usage customers)

2008-11-02 Thread RickG
Disregard - I just sqw your other posts :)

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 10:20 PM, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've seen your website with the comparisons. Very nice. So, have you
 been able to test their WiMax yet? -RickG

 On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have Qwest DSL, CableOne, another WISP (doing up to 4meg for $29.95
 with Canopy), and a licensed WiMax (2.5ghz) provider (doing up to
 2meg, mobile, for $29.95). I have a lot of competition... and yet we
 have no sales people, no real advertising campaign, and more installs
 than we can keep up with each month.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
 You must not have competitors.  I have both Qwest and Comcast giving away 
 multi megabit starting at $15.95
   - Original Message -
   From: Travis Johnson
   To: WISPA General List
   Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:53 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers


   I guess that's my point... why offer more bandwidth than you have to? 
 Most people don't need more than 1meg, and that's our most popular package 
 for $39.95 per month (total, no modem rental fee, etc.). Why give away the 
 farm if you don't have to? :)

   Travis
   Microserv

   RickG wrote:
 Wow, with all that bandwidth, I'm surprised you dont offer higher speeds.

 Technically speaking, the download  upload price is the same. From a
 cost standpoint, I allocate the download  upload separately because I
 am forced to pay dearly ($1200/month) to ATT for my dual T1's which
 are required for decent upload speeds. Right now, my traffic is
 split so all port 80 traffic flows though the 4Mbps x 2Mbps connection
 through Time Warner which runs over $500/month. This works fairly well
 for now since about half the traffic is web browsing. When I bought
 this WISP there was no management, monitoring or reporting. I took
 care of the management  monitoring and I'm working on the reporting.
 The best thing I've done is replace the StarOS firewall with Mikrotik
 and set up traffic priority.
 Whew! Lots of work. At any rate, I'm working on my upstream connection
 next. I really need to get the cost down.

 Thanks! -RickG

 On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Rick,

 Yes, all of our packages are symmetrical speeds (same download and upload).
 So if they buy our 512k package, they get 512k down x 512k up all the time.
 They are not dedicated connections, but rather you get what you pay for
 connections. We still oversubscribe users on an AP, but only to the point
 where each AP is running around 60% capacity during peak times, thus leaving
 room for bursts, etc. We graph and monitor every single AP (over 200 of
 them) and every single user (bandwidth, packets, RSSI, etc.) so we always
 know what's happening on our network.

 We currently have three full OC-3 (155Mbps) dedicated connections to the
 backbone. On average, we pay $40/meg for bandwidth. Why is your upload price
 different than your download price?

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 Nice work! Therefore, you are selling dedicated bandwidth to all of
 your customers. In other words, if all your customers run speed test
 at the same time they will get what their plan allows. If you dont
 mind, I have a few questions:
 Is the above scenario true for upload speed as well as download speed?
 What are you paying for your upstream connection?
 What type of upstream connection do you have?

 I'd like to be there and I keep hoping cheap bandwidth comes my way.
 When you are paying $150/meg for download and $400/meg for upload, the
 business model is tough.

 -RickG

 BTW: I'd take this offlist if you prefer but I think this is a problem
 that many us us small WISP's face.

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Every customer can get the speed they are paying for ANY time they run a
 speed test. We offer packages from 512k to 2.5meg for residential customers
 and they always get what they pay for (download AND upload, which is the
 same for all of our packages).

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 If I understand this correctly, you have at least 1Mbps or higher of
 bandwidth for every customer?

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 We deliver what the customers pay for. If they purchase a 1Mbps package,
 they get 1Mbps 24x7 (with no monthly bit caps). Personally I have never
 liked the up to speed packages... it's like going to Walmart and
 buying milk. You can pay $3 for a full 1 gallon, or you can pay $2 for
 up to a gallon (without really knowing how much you are going to get,
 but it will be somewhere between nothing and a full gallon).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


 Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much bandwidth that
 you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. And what
 do you tell them when they start complaining about

Re: [WISPA] canopy speed

2008-11-02 Thread RickG
Is that speed test on net or off net?
-RickG

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Josh Luthman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 When a customer here gets installed we always do a speed test to show
 they're getting the connection they pay for as the tech leaves.

 They always get their peak every speed test.



 On 11/2/08, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That's why you join Peering Exchanges if you can.


 --
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:30 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] canopy speed

 And, as the Canopy 430 system gets rolled out, we will have 40 Mbps to
 deliver.  We will probably give 30 down and 10 up.  Statistically that
 gets
 folks on and off the system so quick there will be much more time for
 folks
 to spend in the wide open throttle mode.  DSL will be left in our dust.
 DOCSIS and FIOS are approaching those speeds but they ain't playing in our
 sandbox... yet.  If you have 30 Mbps burst download speeds, the bottleneck
 will not be in our system, it will be at the content provider end or in
 transiting the internet.
 - Original Message -
 From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:12 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] canopy speed


 Perception is reality.  This is what you will see and this is accurate.
 Some times you may have to click it 2 or 3 times to get over 10 but it
 will
 usually be between 5 and 10 on the first click.  And people will click
 and
 click and click until they get the highest reading.  If they see 10 the
 are
 satisfied.
 Irrespective, when you are casually browsing and getting wide open
 throttle
 on a canopy system it is just as responsive as when I am at the office
 where
 I have GigE from my desk top to the world.



 




 
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 --
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 
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Re: [WISPA] p2p blocking, throttling, mikrotik

2008-11-04 Thread RickG
IMO, the best thing I've done to my network is switch to a Mikrotik
firewall and prioritize traffic. I friend of mine offered a sample
script whcih I have attached. Obviously, you need to tweak it to fit
your needs.
-RickG

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:24 AM, RC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 When I try and block ptp traffic through my mikrotik router
 customers call in telling us some web pages load some don't.
 Myspace, yahoo, etc.

 Anyone know how to block or throttle p2p without affecting
 regular web traffic?



 
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/ip firewall mangle
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=icmp disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=icmp_in \
passthrough=no protocol=icmp
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no 
new-packet-mark=icmp_out out-interface=wan0 \
passthrough=no protocol=icmp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=SNMP disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=SNMP-IN \
passthrough=no protocol=udp src-port=161
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no dst-port=161 
new-packet-mark=SNMP-OUT \
out-interface=wan0 passthrough=no protocol=udp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=p2p disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=p2p_in \
p2p=all-p2p passthrough=no
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no 
new-packet-mark=p2p_out out-interface=wan0 \
p2p=all-p2p passthrough=no
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=Game disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=Game-IN \
passthrough=no protocol=tcp src-port=27020-27039
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment= disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=Game-IN \
passthrough=no protocol=udp src-port=1200,27000-27100
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no 
dst-port=27020-27039 new-packet-mark=\
Game-OUT out-interface=wan0 passthrough=no protocol=tcp
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no 
dst-port=1200,27000-27100 new-packet-mark=\
Game-OUT out-interface=wan0 passthrough=no protocol=udp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=pop3 disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=pop3_in \
passthrough=no protocol=tcp src-port=110
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no dst-port=110 
new-packet-mark=pop3_out \
out-interface=wan0 passthrough=no protocol=tcp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=smtp disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=smtp_in \
passthrough=no protocol=tcp src-port=25
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no dst-port=25 
new-packet-mark=smtp_out \
out-interface=wan0 passthrough=no protocol=tcp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=winbox disabled=no 
dst-port=8291 in-interface=wan0 \
new-packet-mark=winbox_in passthrough=no protocol=tcp
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no 
new-packet-mark=winbox_out out-interface=\
wan0 passthrough=no protocol=tcp src-port=8291
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=dns disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=dns_in \
passthrough=no protocol=udp src-port=53
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no dst-port=53 
new-packet-mark=dns_out \
out-interface=wan0 passthrough=no protocol=udp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=www disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=www_in \
passthrough=no protocol=tcp src-port=80
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no dst-port=80 
new-packet-mark=www_out \
out-interface=wan0 passthrough=no protocol=tcp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=ssl disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=ssl_in \
passthrough=no protocol=tcp src-port=443
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no dst-port=443 
new-packet-mark=ssl_out \
out-interface=wan0 passthrough=no protocol=tcp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=udp disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=udp_in \
passthrough=no protocol=udp
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no 
new-packet-mark=udp_out out-interface=wan0 \
passthrough=no protocol=udp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=tcp disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=tcp_in \
passthrough=no protocol=tcp
add action=mark-packet chain=postrouting comment= disabled=no 
new-packet-mark=tcp_out out-interface=wan0 \
passthrough=no protocol=tcp
add action=mark-packet chain=prerouting comment=other disabled=no 
in-interface=wan0 new-packet-mark=other_in \
passthrough

[WISPA] cancelled customer email

2008-11-05 Thread RickG
OK guys. I've never had this happen before so I'm not usre what to do.
I've got a long time customer that has fallen for the ATT DSL
giveaway package and is switching. He asked if he could pay a small
monthly rate to keep his email addresses for a few months until he
gets the word out. My first reaction is to tell him to take a flying
leap. After some thought, I want to be reasonable. I've thought about
telling him he can do so with a low end plan. We dont sell email
accounts. How do you handle this?
-RickG



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[WISPA] informing customers of internal issues

2008-11-05 Thread RickG
A few weeks ago we has a DOS attack from an Asian network. I quickly
blocked the whole range addresses and the issue went away. Apparently,
the range contained some web hosts with sites that are visited by one
of my customers. I found this out when they asked for assistance. I
unblocked the range and all is OK and no DOS attacks (yet). This
customer asked if I could inform him when this type of issues arises.
Obviously, it would be impossible for me to know if it affected any
websites. Also, even if I knew which website, I cant know who visits
them. Therefore, they asked if I can place any network changes on my
forums. I've got several issues with that. What do you guys do?
-RickG



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Re: [WISPA] cancelled customer email

2008-11-05 Thread RickG
I agree on the possibility of them coming back and will probably do it
for him but I hate to use resources for someone using the competition
no matter how small. While email calls are not high on the list, they
do call. In fact, the ones using other networks to get to the email
call the most.
Thanks! -RickG

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We have a $25 per year email only option.  They can keep their email address
 forever for all I care.

 AND, this makes it all that much easier for them to come back to use
 someday.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:12 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] cancelled customer email


 OK guys. I've never had this happen before so I'm not usre what to do.
 I've got a long time customer that has fallen for the ATT DSL
 giveaway package and is switching. He asked if he could pay a small
 monthly rate to keep his email addresses for a few months until he
 gets the word out. My first reaction is to tell him to take a flying
 leap. After some thought, I want to be reasonable. I've thought about
 telling him he can do so with a low end plan. We dont sell email
 accounts. How do you handle this?
 -RickG


 
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Re: [WISPA] cancelled customer email

2008-11-06 Thread RickG
We do that as well.
-RickG

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:00 AM, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 As a rule, we give leaving residentials 30 days on their email.

 We often get them back within that time.

 RickG wrote:

 OK guys. I've never had this happen before so I'm not usre what to do.
 I've got a long time customer that has fallen for the ATT DSL
 giveaway package and is switching. He asked if he could pay a small
 monthly rate to keep his email addresses for a few months until he
 gets the word out. My first reaction is to tell him to take a flying
 leap. After some thought, I want to be reasonable. I've thought about
 telling him he can do so with a low end plan. We dont sell email
 accounts. How do you handle this?
 -RickG


 
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Re: [WISPA] cancelled customer email

2008-11-06 Thread RickG
As a follow up. I have decided to charge him $5/month per email as
long as it is prepaid for the length of time he wants to keep it.
Thanks to all for your suggestions. It was very helpful!
-RickG


On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Josh Luthman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Personally without an internet package I'd do 10 or 15

 On 11/6/08, Jerry Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 $5/month per address




 __
 Jerry Richardson
 airCloud Communications

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:18 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] cancelled customer email

 I think we keep it alive for $5/month.

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:12 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] cancelled customer email


 OK guys. I've never had this happen before so I'm not usre what to do.
 I've got a long time customer that has fallen for the ATT DSL
 giveaway package and is switching. He asked if he could pay a small
 monthly rate to keep his email addresses for a few months until he
 gets the word out. My first reaction is to tell him to take a flying
 leap. After some thought, I want to be reasonable. I've thought about
 telling him he can do so with a low end plan. We dont sell email
 accounts. How do you handle this?
 -RickG



 
 
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 --
 Sent from my mobile device

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 
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Re: [WISPA] Stand offs for a water tower question...

2008-11-08 Thread RickG
I remember a while back somebody showed a very nice design of a collar
that went around the hatch neck.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 12:01 PM, St. Louis Broadband
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have two water towers that will need 4 to 5 antenna mounts. The water
 towers are both the same. They are approximately 120' with a climbing tube
 and a bulb at the top. There are no side rails. The hatch opens to the bulb.
 How do you attach antennas??? Is welding standoffs the best practice?  Any
 ideas on basic costs?

 Here is a pic of one of the towers: http://stlbroadband.com/h20.html

 Also this was a method mentioned on another thread:
 http://www.metal-cable.com/page13.html
 These guys are nice but $3k apiece.  I am thinking that if you went that
 route that you could get three for each tower and ad a mounting pipe between
 each creating a triangle and mount to that.  I am not sure how long they
 would maintain their power for this application, but if you had to move your
 network these come along versus a welded situation.

 Thanks,
 Victoria


 
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Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-12 Thread RickG
When I was involved with BPL (back then known as PLC), all I ever
heard was HAM radio interference.
-RickG

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Jeff Broadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081112/tec_broadband_over_power_lines.html?.v=6

 Jeff Broadwick
 Sales Manager, ImageStream
 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
 +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
 +1 574-935-8488   (Fax)



 
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Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-13 Thread RickG
Now, now, now. I had a blast with the BPL projects. There is no
feeling like simply adding a piece of equipment to an electric
substation and instantly lighting up a neighborhood with broadband.
-RickG

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 yeah, BPL is no good.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:10 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

 When I was involved with BPL (back then known as PLC), all I ever
 heard was HAM radio interference.
 -RickG

 On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Jeff Broadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081112/tec_broadband_over_power_lines.html?.v=6

 Jeff Broadwick
 Sales Manager, ImageStream
 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
 +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
 +1 574-935-8488   (Fax)



 
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Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-13 Thread RickG
That would work behind the same distribution panel but to get a
subdivision you need access to the substation and equipment made to go
through transformers. That would also require cooperation with the
local electric provider. My favorite product was
http://powerline-plc.com/

-RickG

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Eje Gustafsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Canopy has a BPL just for that.

 http://www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business+Product+and+Services/Wireles
 s+Broadband+Networks/Broadband+over+Powerline

 / Eje
 CTO
 WISP-Router, Inc.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net
 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:42 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

 Is there and BPL solutions out there that WISPs could take advantage of
 yet?  Maybe beam in some high speed and then go to the community or
 subdivision?

 --
 * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/

 */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/*



 Tom DeReggi wrote:
 Just like everything else There is a useful place for anything,
 somewhere.

 BPL is in no way a solution to solve the world's broadband problems. But
 it
 is clearly part of the solution, just like Wireless, DSL, or FTTH.
 Some of the case studies here in Potomac Maryland were very successful,
 and
 in other areas just down the street, they were not.

 What  I don't like to see is  Municipal or Monopoly Subsidized approaches
 that bank on a single technology for the solution to a given region.
 There is no one-fit-all solution.   I See BPL being an overlay to many
 areas, as another competitor to add choice and options for consumers.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:47 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL



 yeah, BPL is no good.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:10 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 When I was involved with BPL (back then known as PLC), all I ever
 heard was HAM radio interference.
 -RickG

 On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Jeff Broadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081112/tec_broadband_over_power_lines.html?.v=6

 Jeff Broadwick
 Sales Manager, ImageStream
 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
 +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
 +1 574-935-8488   (Fax)




 
 
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[WISPA] Nanostation5

2008-11-13 Thread RickG
I've enjoyed the Nanostation2's so much, I decided to try out a 5GHz
unit. For some reason, It wont connect to my WRAP running StarOS with
a CM9 card. Any ideas?
-RickG



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Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-14 Thread RickG
Wireless has it's obvious advantages but if you go the BPL route you
can use the Motorola product. Just be sure your not going through mroe
than one distribution panel. To be honest, depending on the wiring,
you may be able to get through a couple of panels.
-RickG

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Brian Rohrbacher
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have a motel I am trying to cover with internet.  It's a L shaped
 building 20-30 rooms.  What type of bpl solutions would work for this?
 Or maybe wireless is the way to go.

 Brian



 
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Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-14 Thread RickG
Good post Tom,

A few years back I was directly involved with BPL pilot tests as a
consultant to major electric companies nationwide. I really enjoyed
those days. I saw all kinds of equipment and to clarify Current
Technologies is not the only maker of Medium Voltage WAN products. In
fact, in all the pilot tests I was involved with, Current was only
chosen once. My favorite manufacturer is Main-net
(http://powerline-plc.com) because they didnt jumper around the
transformer but rather went through it. Obviously this is a huge
safety factor.

As far as speed, I saw generation 2 products running 20Mbps and even
one product running at 100Mbps. Again this was a several years ago,
I'm sure the product has matured since then.
You are correct, electric companies saw huge benefits for internal use
but the real reason it did not move forward was because electric
companies are conservative by nature and they didnt like the heat
coming from the ARRL over interference issues, which btw were not
real.

Note: Both low and medium voltage products were called PLC until 2003
when the FCC finalized the the acronymn BPL.

-RickG

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There are two core BPL technology applications.  Medium Voltage WAN
 distribution, and Low Voltage LAN distribution.

 The Primary Medium Voltage product is made by Current Technologies. They
 migrated to a model of being an ISP, or working in direct partnership with
 the power companies.
 Thus they have no value to offer a WISP.  (But their technology works for
 many applications).
 The secret to their technologoes are easy jumpers to jump around the
 transformers that kill teh BPL signal.

 The Low Voltage application is also named PLC.
 The Primary innovator of the technology was TelkoNet, who revolutionized it
 for service providers. Sense then, Motorola jumped on the bandwagon with
 thier PLC offering.  I think it may be an OEM or license of Telkonet's
 product/technology, but I don't know that for sure.  But regardless
 MOtorola's product is for equivellent applications as Telkonet's.
 The secret of Telkonet, is using inexpensive HomePlug chipsets, and putting
 them on steroids, (sorta like Alvarion does to a Atheros chipset).

 Telkonet's PLC solution is HIGHLY effective for in building distribution. We
 have served buildings with as many as 400 tenants, successfully with the
 technology. (up to 7mbps speed per grid).

 PLC is NOT for wide area distribution or community distribution as the
 signal can't traverse across a transformer.

 Homeplug has hadd 200mbps chipsets out for a couple years, and all teh PLC
 products had a migration path to it. Have not followed up with that, nor
 tried any gear if it had become available.

 My tale on BPL is that the cost to deploy it is huge. For most WAN
 distribution, you might as well jsut deploy the fiber, as the Speed that BPL
 delviers is just not equivellent.
 BPL is usually best used in combination with other technologoes, such as
 with wireless and fiber. This is one of the reasons Power companies are not
 jumping for joy about the technology. They aren't really prepared to be a
 full scale connectivity ISP end to end.  Just because the billing system and
 last mile wire is there, doesn't mean all the other components are.

 In my opinion for BPL to take off, it really needs partnership models
 between power companies, equipment makers, and ISP fiber/wireless
 connectivity providers.

 The reason BPL can take off is There is a cost justification to the
 Power company, just for meter reading alone. But not necessarilly a cost
 jsutification to build out the speed needed for large scale hgih capacity
 Broadband to compete with FTTH.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 5:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 Is there and BPL solutions out there that WISPs could take advantage of
 yet?  Maybe beam in some high speed and then go to the community or
 subdivision?

 --
 * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 http://www.linktechs.net/

 */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training
 http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/*



 Tom DeReggi wrote:
 Just like everything else There is a useful place for anything,
 somewhere.

 BPL is in no way a solution to solve the world's broadband problems. But
 it
 is clearly part of the solution, just like Wireless, DSL, or FTTH.
 Some of the case studies here in Potomac Maryland were very successful,
 and
 in other areas just down the street, they were not.

 What  I don't like to see

Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-15 Thread RickG
To clarify, by real interference I meant they are no worse than
anything else we deal with. Like any RF transmission, there are
emmisions, but those can be dealt with just like the way we (WISP's)
deal with them. The ARRL made a mountain out of  molehill and it was
all political as far as I'm concened. They used the BPL as a scapegoat
to try and get the electric companies to fix the interference hams
receive from aging electrical insulators which causes all kinds of
noise.
I personally saw a perfect example of the bias against BPL
interference. A parade of hams came to our pilot test site and claimed
we were interferering with them then  there. The funny part: We had
the system turned off! We showed it to them and they were totally
embarrased and speechless. When we turned the system back on, they
admitted that the noise was no worse than when it was off. We has
spectrum analyzers to prove it. There are some hardliners out there
that would not give up. To make their point they would drive their
vehicles (equipped with ham radio and whip antenna) within a few feet
and directly under the powerline and guess what? Give me break.
Basically, except for a few viable installations still running, BPL
was killed in it's infancy. Too bad.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 1:04 AM, Jonathan Schmidt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You are correct, electric companies saw huge benefits for internal use
 but the real reason it did not move forward was because electric companies
 are conservative by nature and they didnt like the heat coming from the
 ARRL over interference issues, which btw were not real.

 The interference is real.  The ARRL is real and very conservative.  And,
 any conductor carrying RF that isn't a proper, geometrically arranged
 transmission line, properly terminated in the proper impedance, will
 radiate and radiate most of its RF energy.  Where do you think that goes?
 And, where do stubs dissipate their RF?...into the 4th dimension?

 Were it not for careful oversight of the spectrum, we would be back in the
 stone ages with AM and FM and TV because of interference.  Police and fire
 radios would be hit and miss.  Our licensed and unlicensed spectrum would
 be a mess.

 Blasting the HF spectrum into random lengths of conductors and stubs at
 watts of power has proved to be nasty.  It isn't just the ARRL...the
 courts have decided that.

 It isn't just RF on the power lines, either.  You can hear DSL
 interference in neighborhoods with overhead telephone wiring on poles when
 you try to listen to local AM stations at night when they are forced to
 drop their power.  The political influence of the Telcos to force through
 their agenda may be followed by that of the electric companies but it
 won't be to our advantage.

 They have the right of way, the poles, and the money.  Stringing a fiber
 along the poles along with the wiring would seem to be a far better and
 long term strategy than to pretend that wires are wires and that 60Hz is
 the same as 600,000Hz and the ground return and distribution are
 compatible architectures.

 The entire concept is pseudo-science, appealing to those who are easily
 fooled into thinking wishes become true because it sorta makes sense.

 Jonathan Schmidt






 
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Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-15 Thread RickG
One of the electric companies I worked for, I did just that. We used
BPL for backhaul and used an AP to catch the local area subscribers.
It was great, especially when there are LOS issues. Of course, that
was what Amperion's BPL product was all about.
Obviously, the same hybrid concept also works on a smaller scale such
as a motel.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 How about BPL to transport data to the ap's?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:09 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


I have a motel I am trying to cover with internet.  It's a L shaped
 building 20-30 rooms.  What type of bpl solutions would work for this?
 Or maybe wireless is the way to go.

 Brian



 
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Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-15 Thread RickG
I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as
setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far
as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it
is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all
realitive. The powergrid is already setup  ready to go, why not use
it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest
potential? To do otherwise is wasteful.

BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries
abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt
figure out the hold up is here in the states.

-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea.  HV infrastructure was not built with
 the idea of being a transmission line for RF.  To get any kind if speed you
 have to use lots of power, even then it is very very short range.  You might
 as well set up a whole bunch of dragonwaves in a drop and insert system.  It
 would be cheaper and work better.

 The idea of using natural gas distribution lines as circular waveguides is a
 much more viable technology.  But you don't see that getting deployed
 either.

 BPL on HV is a lab experiment that caught the eye of Michael Powell and got
 talked about.  Nothing more.  On the secondary side it is nothing more than
 homeplug.  That is viable and deployed and does just fine.
 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:32 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 To clarify, by real interference I meant they are no worse than
 anything else we deal with. Like any RF transmission, there are
 emmisions, but those can be dealt with just like the way we (WISP's)
 deal with them. The ARRL made a mountain out of  molehill and it was
 all political as far as I'm concened. They used the BPL as a scapegoat
 to try and get the electric companies to fix the interference hams
 receive from aging electrical insulators which causes all kinds of
 noise.
 I personally saw a perfect example of the bias against BPL
 interference. A parade of hams came to our pilot test site and claimed
 we were interferering with them then  there. The funny part: We had
 the system turned off! We showed it to them and they were totally
 embarrased and speechless. When we turned the system back on, they
 admitted that the noise was no worse than when it was off. We has
 spectrum analyzers to prove it. There are some hardliners out there
 that would not give up. To make their point they would drive their
 vehicles (equipped with ham radio and whip antenna) within a few feet
 and directly under the powerline and guess what? Give me break.
 Basically, except for a few viable installations still running, BPL
 was killed in it's infancy. Too bad.
 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 1:04 AM, Jonathan Schmidt
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You are correct, electric companies saw huge benefits for internal use
 but the real reason it did not move forward was because electric
 companies
 are conservative by nature and they didnt like the heat coming from the
 ARRL over interference issues, which btw were not real.

 The interference is real.  The ARRL is real and very conservative.  And,
 any conductor carrying RF that isn't a proper, geometrically arranged
 transmission line, properly terminated in the proper impedance, will
 radiate and radiate most of its RF energy.  Where do you think that goes?
 And, where do stubs dissipate their RF?...into the 4th dimension?

 Were it not for careful oversight of the spectrum, we would be back in
 the
 stone ages with AM and FM and TV because of interference.  Police and
 fire
 radios would be hit and miss.  Our licensed and unlicensed spectrum would
 be a mess.

 Blasting the HF spectrum into random lengths of conductors and stubs at
 watts of power has proved to be nasty.  It isn't just the ARRL...the
 courts have decided that.

 It isn't just RF on the power lines, either.  You can hear DSL
 interference in neighborhoods with overhead telephone wiring on poles
 when
 you try to listen to local AM stations at night when they are forced to
 drop their power.  The political influence of the Telcos to force through
 their agenda may be followed by that of the electric companies but it
 won't be to our advantage.

 They have the right of way, the poles, and the money.  Stringing a fiber
 along the poles along with the wiring would seem to be a far better and
 long term strategy than to pretend that wires are wires and that 60Hz is
 the same as 600,000Hz and the ground return and distribution are
 compatible architectures.

 The entire concept is pseudo-science, appealing to those who are easily
 fooled into thinking wishes become true because it sorta makes sense.

 Jonathan Schmidt






 
 WISPA Wants You! Join

Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-15 Thread RickG
Chuck,

It's as though you didnt read my post!

BPL works - with acceptable interference - I saw it with my own eyes
along with dozens of skeptical ham operators. Theory does not matter,
those issues are conquered. Seeing is believing.

-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF.  Nor are they
 balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water lines.
 Pipe, right?  What's the problem?

 It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines, let
 alone coax or fiber.  And it is going to leak so much that the American Red
 Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF rigs.
 This has been proven time and time again.

 You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running on
 a three phase line and the line is very balanced.  Once it hits a cap bank,
 regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to terminate the
 signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction.

 Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the old
 G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed).  Really BPL is
 nothing more than G-Line.  As long as you don't care about vomiting all over
 the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want.

 I actually do listen to AM radio.  I want to listen to short-wave and ham if
 I decide to do so.  A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in ruining
 valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an emergency.




 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as
 setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far
 as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it
 is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all
 realitive. The powergrid is already setup  ready to go, why not use
 it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest
 potential? To do otherwise is wasteful.

 BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries
 abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt
 figure out the hold up is here in the states.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea.  HV infrastructure was not built with
 the idea of being a transmission line for RF.  To get any kind if speed
 you
 have to use lots of power, even then it is very very short range.  You
 might
 as well set up a whole bunch of dragonwaves in a drop and insert system.
 It
 would be cheaper and work better.

 The idea of using natural gas distribution lines as circular waveguides
 is a
 much more viable technology.  But you don't see that getting deployed
 either.

 BPL on HV is a lab experiment that caught the eye of Michael Powell and
 got
 talked about.  Nothing more.  On the secondary side it is nothing more
 than
 homeplug.  That is viable and deployed and does just fine.
 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:32 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 To clarify, by real interference I meant they are no worse than
 anything else we deal with. Like any RF transmission, there are
 emmisions, but those can be dealt with just like the way we (WISP's)
 deal with them. The ARRL made a mountain out of  molehill and it was
 all political as far as I'm concened. They used the BPL as a scapegoat
 to try and get the electric companies to fix the interference hams
 receive from aging electrical insulators which causes all kinds of
 noise.
 I personally saw a perfect example of the bias against BPL
 interference. A parade of hams came to our pilot test site and claimed
 we were interferering with them then  there. The funny part: We had
 the system turned off! We showed it to them and they were totally
 embarrased and speechless. When we turned the system back on, they
 admitted that the noise was no worse than when it was off. We has
 spectrum analyzers to prove it. There are some hardliners out there
 that would not give up. To make their point they would drive their
 vehicles (equipped with ham radio and whip antenna) within a few feet
 and directly under the powerline and guess what? Give me break.
 Basically, except for a few viable installations still running, BPL
 was killed in it's infancy. Too bad.
 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 1:04 AM, Jonathan Schmidt
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You are correct, electric companies saw huge benefits for internal use
 but the real reason it did not move forward was because electric
 companies
 are conservative by nature and they didnt like the heat coming from the
 ARRL over interference issues

Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-16 Thread RickG
What brands did you test? Mainnet's worked as promised for us. No, it
was not 500Mbps but 20+ is very cool.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I read your post,  I was also involved in the testing.  They didn't hit
 their throughput nor did they achieve any of the interference mask
 parameters.  We tried several versions of this.  If you want 512kbps you can
 do it.  But Michael Powell was promising 500 mbps magically flowing through
 all the power lines and lighting up a whole city.

 You are not going to get bi directional 500 mbps on high voltage power lines
 (as promised by some) without causing unacceptable interference and
 regenerating the signal every 1000 feet.

 Secondary... as in low voltage... as in 240 volt single phase from
 transformer to the house does work.  Like I said homeplug is a very viable
 technology.  What some people call BPL is secondary BPL.  HV BPL is not
 going to be a viable backhaul technology for a variety of reasons.

 Yes, secondary BPL barely works with arguably acceptable (by some).  Show me
 a HV system that works as advertised.
 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 Chuck,

 It's as though you didnt read my post!

 BPL works - with acceptable interference - I saw it with my own eyes
 along with dozens of skeptical ham operators. Theory does not matter,
 those issues are conquered. Seeing is believing.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF.  Nor are
 they
 balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water lines.
 Pipe, right?  What's the problem?

 It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines,
 let
 alone coax or fiber.  And it is going to leak so much that the American
 Red
 Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF rigs.
 This has been proven time and time again.

 You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running
 on
 a three phase line and the line is very balanced.  Once it hits a cap
 bank,
 regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to terminate
 the
 signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction.

 Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the
 old
 G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed).  Really BPL is
 nothing more than G-Line.  As long as you don't care about vomiting all
 over
 the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want.

 I actually do listen to AM radio.  I want to listen to short-wave and ham
 if
 I decide to do so.  A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in ruining
 valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an
 emergency.




 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as
 setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far
 as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it
 is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all
 realitive. The powergrid is already setup  ready to go, why not use
 it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest
 potential? To do otherwise is wasteful.

 BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries
 abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt
 figure out the hold up is here in the states.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea.  HV infrastructure was not built
 with
 the idea of being a transmission line for RF.  To get any kind if speed
 you
 have to use lots of power, even then it is very very short range.  You
 might
 as well set up a whole bunch of dragonwaves in a drop and insert
 system.
 It
 would be cheaper and work better.

 The idea of using natural gas distribution lines as circular waveguides
 is a
 much more viable technology.  But you don't see that getting deployed
 either.

 BPL on HV is a lab experiment that caught the eye of Michael Powell and
 got
 talked about.  Nothing more.  On the secondary side it is nothing more
 than
 homeplug.  That is viable and deployed and does just fine.
 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:32 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 To clarify, by real interference I meant they are no worse than
 anything else we deal with. Like any RF transmission, there are
 emmisions, but those can be dealt with just like the way we (WISP's)
 deal with them. The ARRL made a mountain out of  molehill and it was
 all

Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-16 Thread RickG
Everything has it's place.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Jonathan Schmidt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Chuck is right on the spot.

 RF is very demanding both in transmission lines and radiators.  We all
 know how much discipline we need to invoke when deploying successful RF
 links.

 RF on an unbalanced, geometrically variable conductor will barely move
 with most being dissipated as heat or radiated away.  Chuck is correct
 that elevated, balanced three phase lines, as far as the geometry remains
 stable, might have some short range applicability when coupled with notch
 filters and other carefully designed, customized equipment.  Short range
 and expensive.  That's why it isn't out there.

 The ARRL and other interested parties did observe a number of vendor
 products under FCC monitoring...monitoring that was later shown to be
 comparable to the Katrina effort.  The results were effectively decided in
 the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit earlier this
 year: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2008/04/25/10064/?nc=1

 The momentum for BPL on HV has come from investors who point to the sky
 and convince people that the wires, like your cable TV coax, are
 conductors and, therefore, should carry RF just like 60Hz.  Anecdotal
 recollections of bumbling (on both sides, I agree) experiments don't
 invalidate Smith Charts and pure science.

 However, the power company has right-of-way and pole-to-pole LOS.  Any of
 the WISPA members would drool over that geography and would be better
 shepherds of the effort to bring broadband to rural areas.

 Meanwhile, I'll go back to my Smith Charts, grid dip meter, SWR
 cross-needle meter, and TDR equipment that served me so well all these
 years.  I run a clean shop.

 . . . J o n a t h a n

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:25 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

 One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF.  Nor are
 they balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water
 lines.
 Pipe, right?  What's the problem?

 It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines, let
 alone coax or fiber.  And it is going to leak so much that the American
 Red Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF
 rigs.
 This has been proven time and time again.

 You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running
 on a three phase line and the line is very balanced.  Once it hits a cap
 bank, regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to
 terminate the signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction.

 Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the
 old G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed).  Really BPL is
 nothing more than G-Line.  As long as you don't care about vomiting all
 over the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want.

 I actually do listen to AM radio.  I want to listen to short-wave and ham
 if I decide to do so.  A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in
 ruining valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an
 emergency.




 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as
 setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far
 as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it
 is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all
 realitive. The powergrid is already setup  ready to go, why not use
 it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest
 potential? To do otherwise is wasteful.

 BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries
 abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt
 figure out the hold up is here in the states.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea.  HV infrastructure was not built
 with
 the idea of being a transmission line for RF.  To get any kind if speed

 you
 have to use lots of power, even then it is very very short range.  You
 might
 as well set up a whole bunch of dragonwaves in a drop and insert
 system.
 It
 would be cheaper and work better.

 The idea of using natural gas distribution lines as circular waveguides

 is a
 much more viable technology.  But you don't see that getting deployed
 either.

 BPL on HV is a lab experiment that caught the eye of Michael Powell and

 got
 talked about.  Nothing more.  On the secondary side it is nothing more
 than
 homeplug.  That is viable and deployed and does just fine.
 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-16 Thread RickG
I'm talking MV  LV. HV is not there (yet) AFAIK. There were 105 pilot
tests in 2004, of those, I was involved with several deployments. 5
ended up serving the public. Those are some happy customers! I met
them. I agree BPL was oversold but then what technology isnt?
As far as bandwidth, the source can be from multiple locations in a
mesh topology. The end user's modem selects the best path to the
source. Therefore, you are not limited to 20Mbps.
As far as repeaters, G2 went 1800 wire feet. G3 was supposed to at
least double that. Big deal, the units were cheap ($150). Depending on
the topology, it could be more or less costly than Canopy and no
installation! You can literally mail the modem to the end user!
Besides, while I am wireless guy, wireline is better. At any rate, the
purpose of my post was just to be sure the record is straight. I still
say BPL is a great technology and will be a viable bandwidth source in
the future.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What do you call BPL?
 HV
 or
 MV
 or
 LV?

 LV works.  I don't call that BPL.  It isn't a method to magically distribute
 broadband to a city.  It is only a way to use the power drop as a way to get
 into the house.  Some of those systems used Motorola Canopy to get to the
 distribution point.

 MV worked a bit in some of the deployments.  The most successful one that I
 heard of allowed about 512 kbps.  I don't recall what the guys in Texas were
 using, but it reportedly got up into the 20-30 Mbps range (with repeaters
 every 1000 feet).  That is what I am talking about and what I was involved
 in testing.  It is not economically feasible and you have to put up a bunch
 of technology to feed a neighborhood.  And then you only have 20-30 Mbps to
 share amongst the neighbors.  I can do the same with a Motorola Canopy 400
 series for a very small fraction of what BPL on MV costs.

 HV was the pie in the sky, using the magnetic fields around the power lines
 as a containment structure for a microwave signal.  Hundreds of Mbps.  Lab
 oddity, but picked up by the press.

 Which one of these are we talking about here?


 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 Chuck,

 It's as though you didnt read my post!

 BPL works - with acceptable interference - I saw it with my own eyes
 along with dozens of skeptical ham operators. Theory does not matter,
 those issues are conquered. Seeing is believing.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF.  Nor are
 they
 balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water lines.
 Pipe, right?  What's the problem?

 It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines,
 let
 alone coax or fiber.  And it is going to leak so much that the American
 Red
 Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF rigs.
 This has been proven time and time again.

 You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running
 on
 a three phase line and the line is very balanced.  Once it hits a cap
 bank,
 regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to terminate
 the
 signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction.

 Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the
 old
 G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed).  Really BPL is
 nothing more than G-Line.  As long as you don't care about vomiting all
 over
 the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want.

 I actually do listen to AM radio.  I want to listen to short-wave and ham
 if
 I decide to do so.  A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in ruining
 valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an
 emergency.




 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as
 setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far
 as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it
 is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all
 realitive. The powergrid is already setup  ready to go, why not use
 it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest
 potential? To do otherwise is wasteful.

 BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries
 abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt
 figure out the hold up is here in the states.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea.  HV infrastructure was not built
 with
 the idea of being a transmission line for RF.  To get any kind if speed
 you

Re: [WISPA] tower demolition video

2008-11-16 Thread RickG
Gotta love you tube! I liked how this one went down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRGkofsxWg4
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 11:01 PM, jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We had an old 95' rohn25 tower (probably 100' with 5' in the ground)
 that is 50+ years old and we took it down. It came with the site when I
 bought it ten years ago. It was quickly reguyed early in my ownership
 and had served us well. The old (unused) guys were crusty rusty and
 brittle, so I figured the tower wasn't far behind. We'd built a
 replacement tower to better serve our needs, and didn't want the old
 tower to come down in an inevitable winter/icy storm. We picked a calm
 day so wind was not an issue.

 We had two people in the woods pulling it where we wanted it to go with
 ropes at the 30 and 60' points. We removed the bottom two of three guys,
 and cut the top one to make it fall.

 I started with thermite (and magnesium fuse) as I didn't want to be near
 the guy point when it let go, but I ended up needing to cut through a
 turnbuckle with a power tool. The thermite destroyed the terracotta
 flower pot it was in and wasn't properly directed onto the anchor.

 Just as well. It came down where we wanted it perfectly with no damage
 to other stuff.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-tXQULhaM0


 --
 /*
 Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
  http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
 */


 
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Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-17 Thread RickG
I agree Tom. But, as with all technolgies, they mature and improve. I
think the biggest advantage of BPL is that the transport (grid) is
already there. Plug  play!
BTW: In every meeting I ever went to, when the electric companies
chose the vendor, it was usually Main-net and/or Amperion. Why?
Because they didnt jumper around the transformer. Jumping from MV to
LV is a huge safety concern for them.
-RickG

On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 BPL works... But sure it doesn;t work to its expectations.
 Sure you have to repeat it, bypassing transformers and such, maybe as you
 say every 1000feet or what ever.
 Part of the Cirrent technology's solution was to make the devices to easily
 jump over (bypass) the transformers and such.

 However the relevent question is not whether it works, its whether its
 cost effective to deploy, and whether it can scale to the level to justify
 the cost.
 I beleive the answer is no.

 The concept of Powerline, is that the Wire is already there, and the
 provider saves money and time, by not having to deploy a New Wire, or any
 complicated fiber termiantion devices.
 This concept is flawed, in most cases.  The reason is... Fiber is no longer
 a mystery to most, and fiber labor and fiber cable is no longer the huge
 cost it used to be. In many cases, its less expensive to buy and deploy the
 fiber, than it is to pay the line man labor to install the jumpers to bypass
 transformers. So why limit to the boddle necks of MV/HV Power line?

 Thats why I said that Powerline is best as a solution coupled with other
 solutions. Using the Powerline component ONLY where there are specific cases
 that make it more affordable for that specific case or location.


 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:22 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 What brands did you test? Mainnet's worked as promised for us. No, it
 was not 500Mbps but 20+ is very cool.
 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 I read your post,  I was also involved in the testing.  They didn't hit
 their throughput nor did they achieve any of the interference mask
 parameters.  We tried several versions of this.  If you want 512kbps you
 can
 do it.  But Michael Powell was promising 500 mbps magically flowing
 through
 all the power lines and lighting up a whole city.

 You are not going to get bi directional 500 mbps on high voltage power
 lines
 (as promised by some) without causing unacceptable interference and
 regenerating the signal every 1000 feet.

 Secondary... as in low voltage... as in 240 volt single phase from
 transformer to the house does work.  Like I said homeplug is a very
 viable
 technology.  What some people call BPL is secondary BPL.  HV BPL is not
 going to be a viable backhaul technology for a variety of reasons.

 Yes, secondary BPL barely works with arguably acceptable (by some).  Show
 me
 a HV system that works as advertised.
 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 Chuck,

 It's as though you didnt read my post!

 BPL works - with acceptable interference - I saw it with my own eyes
 along with dozens of skeptical ham operators. Theory does not matter,
 those issues are conquered. Seeing is believing.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF.  Nor are
 they
 balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water lines.
 Pipe, right?  What's the problem?

 It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines,
 let
 alone coax or fiber.  And it is going to leak so much that the American
 Red
 Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF
 rigs.
 This has been proven time and time again.

 You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is
 running
 on
 a three phase line and the line is very balanced.  Once it hits a cap
 bank,
 regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to
 terminate
 the
 signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction.

 Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the
 old
 G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed).  Really BPL is
 nothing more than G-Line.  As long as you don't care about vomiting all
 over
 the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want.

 I actually do listen to AM radio.  I want to listen to short-wave and
 ham
 if
 I decide to do so.  A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in
 ruining
 valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an
 emergency.




 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA

Re: [WISPA] NetFlix Streaming Bandwidth Information

2008-11-25 Thread RickG
I was charging high usage customers by the meg back in 1997 at the ISP
I was GM of. The clients didnt mind as long as I capped it so there
was not a huge surprise bill. I've always said it will end up that way
just like most utilites. Anything that is unlimited is abused.
Currently, with the ISP I own/operate, I am not charging for over
usage but I'm close to implementing it. I could care less if the
abusers go to the competition and beat them up.
Really though, I think we are missing a piece due to the lack of
organization. The telcos get fees for terminating calls. We should get
something like that from Netflix, etc. - oops, wake me back up!
-RickG

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We have always had a per bit plan in place.

 Our speeds are as high as 10 meg on wireless and 100 on fiber.

 Yet our average user is down at 3 megs.  Well, really below that as my
 tracking mechanism counts the servers and high end business users and it
 really shouldn't do that.

 We're still growing nicely and have lost very few customers due to usage
 issues over the years.  Usually they are the ones that I really didn't want
 anyway.  Sell one account and they build their own system that covers the
 entire neighborhood, watch TV online etc.

 I really feel for my competitors.  We've certainly run off more than a few
 potential new customers because of our 6 gig limit.  I'd love to see the bw
 and gig numbers for some of the other wisps in my area.  I'll bet it's
 amazingly different.

 laters,
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:26 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] NetFlix Streaming Bandwidth Information


 The point that I was getting at when this thread started about 24 hours
 ago
 was about having an all you can eat type service. As it stands right now,
 how many ISPs are offering plans of 768k or 1Mbps or 3 Mbps? This is not
 going to cut it in the future. This is not going to cut it next year.

 I wasn't trying to say well hell just buy more radios in the same
 frequency
 space and put them up on the towers .. What I am getting at is that
 opening
 these subs up and supplying the bandwidth they need is going to have to
 become a reality at some point. If the networks that are in place today
 cannot satisfy that need, there will be other networks in the future that
 WILL be there.

 For what they have done with the physics side of it (i.e. Modulation
 schemes, channel reuse, beam forming, etc.) technologies exist or are
 being
 worked on to milk everything out of that valuable spectrum that we all try
 and operate in.

 The cars on the bike trail is a perfect example .. Luckily whether its
 3.65
 or TVWS or the 700 MHz auctions, that spectrum is becoming available. The
 hope is that the operators that are around today see this and position or
 align themselves (because yes Charles, the cold reality does hit you
 pretty
 quiickly!) to take advantage of this as soon as they can. And that doesn't
 mean just for the distribution side of their network. The backhaul, the
 routing, the switching, all have to be in place for this to operate
 properly.  All too often have a seen pieced together WISPS fail due to bad
 switching equipment .. well heck, this Netgear switch is only $59!!

 Jack, I truly appreciate your perspective on this and I completely
 understand the side of it you are coming from. True, the amount of
 unlicensed space that is out there currently will not hold a network that
 supports as you said high-throughput, high-reliability, moderate-cost,
 non-interfering networks .. But that is today. With innovation in
 communications, as it has been proven time and again, where there's a will
 there's a way. Maybe the 5GHz spectrum can't hold what it needs to on its
 own, maybe there isnt a modulation scheme for stuffing more bits per hertz
 available today .. But that does not mean that multi-frequency equipment
 or
 innovation will not exist in the future.

 -drew




 On 11/25/08 1:01 AM, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Drew,

 As I've mentioned before - wireless physics does not allow you to
 simply and affordably build your network for tomorrow but you do not
 yet understand this point. No matter what the customer wants (or
 demands) and no matter how much the WISP wants to build a
 high-throughput network at a reasonable price, wireless physics
 (specifically the lack of available spectrum) prevents this. With
 limited spectrum (which is what we have today in spite of the arguments
 that we have WiMAX in 3650 and future White Space and opportunities
 to partner with licensed carriers) WISPs can not build high-throughput,
 high-reliability, moderate-cost, non-interfering networks that serve a
 lot of customers without having access to more spectrum. As you point
 out, watching bandwidth needs so you can know what's coming and plan
 accordingly

Re: [WISPA] WiMax delays?

2008-11-25 Thread RickG
I used and loved Trango at the last WISP I owned/operated in West
Palm. With my current operation, Tranzeo works well too and I'm
starting to really enjoy MikroTik but nothing can replace my Trango!
Maybe Ubiquiti. I 'm looking forward to the bullet. I hope it works
well. Anyone get an early release?
-RickG

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:51 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 trango and have now given up on a successor to the product line.

 Allthough that is true... Its also important to note Even today, with the 
 other newer more updated options out there When I have a choice. And 
 I need to guarantee the link will work the first trip onsite, and I need to 
 rely on it Trango is still my first choice that I pull off the shelve to 
 install. When the originial product of 8 years ago works so well, its hard 
 for the manufacturer to justify changing it.   Still to this day There is 
 not another product on the market that can offer what Trango PtMP offers now 
 from its yr 2000 design.

 Sure, we are all migrating to higher capacity gear options where we can 
 but its not feasible or necessary everywhere.


 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message -
  From: Travis Johnson
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] WiMax delays?


  Josh,

  I think this was the point. The Trango 5800 series (the 5830 radio) was the 
 top of the line product when it first came out (2001 or 2002 I think). There 
 was nothing else on the market (including Canopy) when Trango first started 
 shipping this product. However, nothing has been done with it since then. 
 They made two failed attempts, and have now given up on a successor to the 
 product line.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Josh Luthman wrote:
 I must be using a different product line then everyone else here - the
 Trango Access 5800 has left quite a bit to be desired - short range and at
 most 7mbps throughput.  Mikrotik (costing less new then Trango used) easily
 outperforms in wireless distance, throughput and (my favorite) capability.

 I have no experience with Canopy but I can imagine from all the great buffs
 it gets around here and their well known history in wireless I don't doubt
 it is a good product.

 Redline is to radios as Sony is to LCDs.  Can't be beat in quality...

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Travis Johnson wrote:

I don't think this is entirely true. For us, it becomes a value
 decision. If there was an AP that would deliver 100Mbps and could
 support 1000 subscribers, I would be willing to pay $10,000+ for it
 today. There is a real gap in the products that are available on
 the market:
  I don't disagree with your assessment of the current product matrix.
 I don't even assume that ALL WISPs are cheap.  I am not sure I
 would say that even MOST of them are cheap.  But enough of them are
 that the middle of the road products you want are missing in action.

Next = Mikrotik
 Next = Trango, Canopy, etc
  Since they have fixed their wireless, I'd put MT in the same class
 as Trango and Canopy.

So, again, why hasn't there been an evolution of products the last
 2-3 years? Did everyone stop normal RD to focus on WiMax?
  I have an opinion (which I stated in rant form) about what happened
 to the RD.  The Canopy line (which is a very nice radio) is a good
 example.  Motorola has delivered a product that just works.  It is
 expensive compared to other products sold to the same marketplace,
 but it is NOT expensive for what it delivers.  Better, yet, they are
 working to make a new product line that will improve upon what is
 available today.  But their primary market isn't the normal WISP.
 They service companies that are better funded, which typically means
 larger WISPs, cable companies and telcos.

 I really hope I didn't offend anyone with my rant.  It wasn't
 intended to do that.  I really just wish our industry as a whole
 would get out of the hole that we have dug with the cheaper is
 better mindframe.

 --
 
 * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
 * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
 * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
 * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
 



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] WiMax delays?

2008-11-26 Thread RickG
You get a break if you sign up with Trango as an ISP. I have to admit,
I like Mikrotik for residential but am leery to use it for business
customers.
-RickG

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:08 AM, Josh Luthman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Truck roll: $50
 MikroTik CPE: $200
 Trango SU: $786 (as of Nov 26 2008 2AM)
 Repairing your Trango link without having to truck roll: *three times* the
 price of MikroTik and slow truck roll (no, not priceless - we live in a
 capitalist economy)

 Source:
 http://www.trangobroadband.com/store/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=M5830S-SU

 On a serious note - what issues were fixed remotely with Trango?  The only
 issue that come to mind are bad radios and repointing dishes on those long
 8 mile links after a wind storm.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:11 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Many people have missed the boat on what the differenciating factor was for
 Trango
 Trango's value  is not measured by throughput, but instead deployment
 methodology.

 Proceedure

 1) Accept Customer Order.
 2) Go Onsite for the First Time, or to teh Tower to deploy the AP side of
 needed.
 3) Do a Survey Scan, (software imbedded in Radio), and listen for LEAST
 noisy channel, confident that it will hear ALL noise.
 4) You now know how not to interfere with all your other inplace links, and
 the best option and alternate options for channel selection.
 5) You now have the flexibilty to turn up teh 5.8G or 5.3G radio, or
 Verticle or Horizontal, or Long range Dish or short range panel.  But what
 ever your need is to get a free usable channels, you ahve it right there
 with you, with every option to your advantage to use as needed.
 6) All testing tools you need are right there in the Software to crtify
 performance.
 7) You walk away from your first visit onsite, with a Check and your
 first
 Client live and running perfectly.

 Then there is 6 months later, when your customer calls with an outage.

 1) You log in remotely
 2) You do a link test. You do a survey scan.
 3) You quickly understand exactly what you need to do to repair the link in
 the shortest time period possible.
 4) You are empowered  to make the changes on the fly remotely, with out the
 truck roll bneeded 99% of the time.
 5) You are now on the phone getting praised for your amazing response time
 that your company uniquely delivers, instead of taking the cancellation
 notice that you would be taking had you not made the decission to use
 trango.

 Whether you are deploying a PtP Atlas or a PtMP system, its that same
 general model. Sure, its less advantageous now that the 5.3 has been
 discontinued for 5830 line, but my point is the model was there originally
 when WISPs made decissions to buy into the concept of Trango.

 My point is There are some really nice products evolving such as
 Ligowave, StarOS, MIkrotik, and the many others For example Teletronics
 jsut came out with a new 2 Ether 2 mPCI board also.  And they offer speed
 and good value. But they are still missing the CORE basic feature set that
 Trango offered, to empower a WISP to manage its network and install process
 better.

 Other vendors pretend to have the above features... But not really to an
 equal caliber. For example, siure a Mikrotik can listen for noise, but you
 have to associate first, or other wise not hear all technology's noise,
  and
 end up temporarilly interfering with someone before you can see if jsut the
 single channel does interfer.

 MAnufacturers ahve come a long way, but they still need improved MACs that
 allow them to offer the Basic Core management features. I'm not sure it is
 possible today with standard OEM/OFDM products, because if it was, it would
 have been done already.

 The closest thing to accomplsihing it, is Canopy.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Josh Luthman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] WiMax delays?


 I must be using a different product line then everyone else here - the
  Trango Access 5800 has left quite a bit to be desired - short range and
 at
  most 7mbps throughput.  Mikrotik (costing less new then Trango used)
  easily
  outperforms in wireless distance, throughput and (my favorite)
 capability.
 
  I have no experience with Canopy but I can imagine from all the great
  buffs
  it gets around here and their well known history in wireless I don't
 doubt
  it is a good product.
 
  Redline is to radios as Sony is to LCDs.  Can't be beat in quality...
 
  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
 
  Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly

Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth and costs...

2008-11-30 Thread RickG
I've got the same issues here. I'm getting rid of my expensive T1's
and bringing in bandwidth from 30 miles away. If the usages keeps
growing, I'll employ one of the options you mention below.
-RickG

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:50 PM, Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 With the things that are coming, I'm starting to wounder just how the
 bandwidth/pricing model is going to have to change.

 This is likely not a big deal for you urban guys, but out here in the rural
 areas, bandwidth ain't cheap.

 A T1, 1.54Mb/s, costs me $700/month.
 On my fiber, 1Mb/s costs me $200/month.

 These movie services look to run 2Mb/s. IPTV looks to run 500Kb/s per
 stream.  Just how much of this can our rural networks handle?

 The sat. services can't do this.  The cellular providers can't do this.

 Most of us have our residential service priced in the $35-$45 range.

 It doesn't take a accountant to see that those numbers don't add up.

 Is per bit pricing the answer?  Higher fixed monthly?  Traffic
 discrimination?  A combination?











 
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Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds

2008-12-04 Thread RickG
Travis,

Do you lease or rent the CPE to you customers?

-RickG

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the install fee
 covers your cost on every install, and you aren't upside down on every new
 customer.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:

 You are doing it.  Just keep bootstrapping.  Once you get 1000 subscribers
 things will be a bit better.

 - Original Message -
 From: Steve Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds




 I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth different
 WISP offer.  I want to discuss that as well as the recommended equipment
 that is so often discussed on this list.



 I am a startup.  Little to no startup capital.  I had to pinch each
 penny to get as much as possible out of it.  My goal was to service the
 clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other that
 what Verizon holds hostage.  So now after 2 years I have 8 towers with
 320 clients.



 The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a $59.99 Pro
 Level 1M x 512k.  You guys are talking about 10Mb.  If I turn off the
 speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M on any
 of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS Full
 Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost of with
 another WISP my size.  The investment I would have to make to achieve
 10MB to each client is financially Impossible.



 Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes.  What do
 you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future.



 Please don't start with the statement, How you should have started you
 service.  I was providing a solution.  So this is what I have and I
 know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in the same
 boat.



 So BIG GUYS think back.  How do I grow into new BROADBAND definition
 without rebuilding my network from the ground up.  What is everyone
 charging and what does the client get for that price.  Financing is not
 readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI.   No
 Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge
 Verizon.



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi.com



 
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Re: [WISPA] Article

2008-12-04 Thread RickG
Every SHOULD know that most connections are shared bandwidth. The
keyword is SHOULD. But, peole only hear what they want to and everyone
I talk to that isnt a techie thinks they get the speed they bought for
$50 or less all the time! The marketing gurus have screwed up again
just like the unlimited use policy fiasco. So, I always try to
educate my users but they percieve this as my issue and that my
service is inferiro with cable or dsl. Of course, thats what feeds the
marketing hype with the speed in the first place. So, what to do?
-RickG

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:41 AM, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dear Mike,

 You miss the point and possibly so does Josh. Because an AP can deliver
 x amount of throughput during a speed test between two location does
 not mean that the same AP can deliver that amount of throughput to all
 the customers simultaneously. The AP's throughput is shared between all
 of the end-users. When the AP maxes out, some (possibly all) of those
 end-users must slow down. Some WISPs do not understand this and thus
 they end up over-promising throughput and disappointing their customers.
 WISPs need to understand this or they will fail in this business and
 give other WISPs a black eye in the process. Nobody is getting beat up
 here; this has nothing to do with personalities. It has everything to do
 with the physics of data communications behavior. Everybody needs to
 understand the true limits of their system.

 Why is this? Because the air is a shared medium. Throughput delivery
 takes real-world time in intervals we call time-slots. You can only
 carry so much throughput during one time-slot. There area only so many
 time-slots (fractions of a second) in each second. This is why
 throughput is limited. Only so many users can be on one AP at the same
 time if they are requesting a large amount of the available AP
 throughput. A lightly-loaded system may appear to be able to deliver max
 throughput simultaneously to those few customers but when the AP is
 heavily loaded with users who are vying for a lot of throughput
 simultaneously then most of them will need to slow down because not
 everyone will get all the time slots they need to carry the high
 throughput (ex: video streaming) levels that they are requesting.

 Don't make this personal; that simply detracts from the very real
 technical limits that a successful WISP must understand in order to
 succeed and survive.

 jack


 Mike Hammett wrote:
 I didn't get that at all.

 It seems as though when anyone on this list suggests going faster than 2 
 megabits, they get beat up.  Sorry, Charlie, BA-II was outdated long ago.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 From: Jack Unger
 Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:55 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 So how many of your customers can you serve 26 Mb to SIMULTANEOUSLY from the 
 same AP? It sounds like you are saying that you can serve all of them 26 Mb 
 simultaneously.

 Josh Luthman wrote:
 Each customer has an MT - capable of 26mbps to their home.  Each tower has a
 Redline to it, throughput as high as the key purchased (54 megs).

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Josh Luthman wrote:

 My 5.8 customers can do 10+ megs...

 The estimated throughput on the MTs is 30 to 31 megs.  Real bandwidth tests
 show 26 megs.


  So do you deploy one MT for each customer or do you share that 26 Mb
 between all of your customers on that one access point?

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:



  And which telco is this going to bail out?Money from Congress to
 industry = pay off Unions for votes.

 We will never, ever, ever, ever qualify.

 Another headliner article I read on this will redefine broadband as over
 10 Meg.

 Nothing like disqualifying almost the entire WISP industry...




 
 insert witty tagline here

 - Original Message -
 From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:20 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article




  Jeff,

 Just to let you know, I am in Washington DC this week participating in


  the


  events below.  WISPA has signed on as a supporter of the Call to Action


  to


  define the Nationwide Broadband Strategy.  It was great to see all the
 players of the Broadband Industry working together to attempt to bring


  the


  US back up to the top of the Broadband Access

Re: [WISPA] Xbox 360 issues

2008-12-04 Thread RickG
My Radio shack has these fans on clearance ($12) now for some reason.
I bought one for my wife's Christmas present (XBox). Shhh, dont tell
her :)
-RickG

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:48 AM, jeremyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Maybe it's the placement of the device or just plain bad luck.  I know
 problems have existed and I know people still have issues, but I know
 quite
 a large pool of avid gamers (unfortunately, that's ALL some of them do)
 and
 none have had to replace an XBox 360 (though a couple did replace the
 original)...  and a few bought them on the day of release.

 Most of the problems are heat related.  The xbox's graphic chipset can get so 
 hot that it starts to heat the solder back up and when it cools it cracks.  
 It is called the (RRoD) red ring of death as indicted by the red ring around 
 the power button.  Just in case anyone has an xbox 360 or has a son/daughter 
 that does, you can simply add 2 normal case fans to the box of the 360 and it 
 will pretty much take care of the problem.  There are videos on utube that 
 can show you how to do it.  It is a lot cheaper than replacing a $300 device.

 Sincerely,

 Jeremy Davis, CEO
 Maximum Technologies, LLC
 Office 318.303.4725
 www.maximumtech.us


 
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Re: [WISPA] Xbox 360 issues

2008-12-04 Thread RickG
I understand the warranty was only 90 days but they have extended it
to 1 year now. Of course, my luck it would fail after 366 days! -RickG

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Josh Luthman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The warranty typically replaces the rrod boxes from what I hear.

 On 12/4/08, jeremyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Maybe it's the placement of the device or just plain bad luck.  I know
 problems have existed and I know people still have issues, but I know
 quite
 a large pool of avid gamers (unfortunately, that's ALL some of them do)
 and
 none have had to replace an XBox 360 (though a couple did replace the
 original)...  and a few bought them on the day of release.

 Most of the problems are heat related.  The xbox's graphic chipset can get
 so hot that it starts to heat the solder back up and when it cools it
 cracks.  It is called the (RRoD) red ring of death as indicted by the red
 ring around the power button.  Just in case anyone has an xbox 360 or has a
 son/daughter that does, you can simply add 2 normal case fans to the box of
 the 360 and it will pretty much take care of the problem.  There are videos
 on utube that can show you how to do it.  It is a lot cheaper than replacing
 a $300 device.

 Sincerely,

 Jeremy Davis, CEO
 Maximum Technologies, LLC
 Office 318.303.4725
 www.maximumtech.us


 
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 --
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 
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Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds

2008-12-04 Thread RickG
Same here so we're in sync on that.
As far as leasing, I leased my initial allotment of equipment but the
new sub take rate has been very unpredictable so didnt feel
comfortable enough to add to the monthly lease payment. Therefore,
I've been purchasing additional CPE as I add new subs. This has
allowed me to grow while getting an immeadiate expense deduction on
the new equipment to write off on my new revenue.
Where am I going wrong?
-RickG

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The CPE is our property and it is just part of the monthly service. We don't
 charge extra for it (because without it, they can't have service).

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Travis,

 Do you lease or rent the CPE to you customers?

 -RickG

 On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the install fee
 covers your cost on every install, and you aren't upside down on every new
 customer.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:

 You are doing it.  Just keep bootstrapping.  Once you get 1000 subscribers
 things will be a bit better.

 - Original Message -
 From: Steve Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds




 I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth different
 WISP offer.  I want to discuss that as well as the recommended equipment
 that is so often discussed on this list.



 I am a startup.  Little to no startup capital.  I had to pinch each
 penny to get as much as possible out of it.  My goal was to service the
 clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other that
 what Verizon holds hostage.  So now after 2 years I have 8 towers with
 320 clients.



 The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a $59.99 Pro
 Level 1M x 512k.  You guys are talking about 10Mb.  If I turn off the
 speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M on any
 of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS Full
 Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost of with
 another WISP my size.  The investment I would have to make to achieve
 10MB to each client is financially Impossible.



 Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes.  What do
 you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future.



 Please don't start with the statement, How you should have started you
 service.  I was providing a solution.  So this is what I have and I
 know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in the same
 boat.



 So BIG GUYS think back.  How do I grow into new BROADBAND definition
 without rebuilding my network from the ground up.  What is everyone
 charging and what does the client get for that price.  Financing is not
 readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI.   No
 Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge
 Verizon.



 Steve Barnes

 RC-WiFi.com



 
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Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Shaping (WAS Article)

2008-12-04 Thread RickG
I have WRAP boards on all towers that provide limited bandwidth
shaping. I just recently installed a Mikrotik firewall (and love it).
It's shaping and rules cover all customers. As far as bandwidth hits,
the previous owner oversold and overmarketed the amount of bandwidth
in order to gain subscribers (i.e. premium 3Mbps accounts when he only
had 3Mbps). Since bandwidth is very expensive and difficult to get
here, this has led to a sluggish network that I am having difficulty
resolving. Therefore, the customers have been complaining. The good
news is that after getting very creative, I have overturned some new
options but the cost is still a strain on the budget. My biggest
frustration is the never ending question: What will it take? It
appears that more and more people want constant multi-megabit speeds
on demand for less than $50/month. The oversubscription rate on a
$600/month T1 no longer provides for a valid business model. Heck, my
$500/month 5Mbps connection form Time Warner became quickly saturated
once I put it in. I expect my new 11Mbps connection for $600 will do
the same. The interesting part is that I continue to get pressure for
faster speed plans therefore pressure to make the same mistake my
predecessor made - offer plans with speeds that max out my capacity.
-RickG

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Steve Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rick, (everyone)

 So from that statement it appears that you are not using any bandwidth
 limiting ore shaping at your AP or NOC.
 Question 1. Is that for all Client levels or just your premium service.
 Question 2. If you don't manage limits, was that always how you've
 always done it? If not what made you decide to do it this way and what
 kind of upstream hit did you take.

 I am considering giving more speed but I am concerned about the
 additional cost to me for abusers.

 Steve Barnes
 RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:04 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article

 Every SHOULD know that most connections are shared bandwidth. The
 keyword is SHOULD. But, peole only hear what they want to and everyone
 I talk to that isnt a techie thinks they get the speed they bought for
 $50 or less all the time! The marketing gurus have screwed up again
 just like the unlimited use policy fiasco. So, I always try to
 educate my users but they percieve this as my issue and that my
 service is inferiro with cable or dsl. Of course, thats what feeds the
 marketing hype with the speed in the first place. So, what to do?
 -RickG

 On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:41 AM, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dear Mike,

 You miss the point and possibly so does Josh. Because an AP can
 deliver
 x amount of throughput during a speed test between two location does
 not mean that the same AP can deliver that amount of throughput to all
 the customers simultaneously. The AP's throughput is shared between
 all
 of the end-users. When the AP maxes out, some (possibly all) of those
 end-users must slow down. Some WISPs do not understand this and thus
 they end up over-promising throughput and disappointing their
 customers.
 WISPs need to understand this or they will fail in this business and
 give other WISPs a black eye in the process. Nobody is getting beat up
 here; this has nothing to do with personalities. It has everything to
 do
 with the physics of data communications behavior. Everybody needs to
 understand the true limits of their system.

 Why is this? Because the air is a shared medium. Throughput delivery
 takes real-world time in intervals we call time-slots. You can only
 carry so much throughput during one time-slot. There area only so many
 time-slots (fractions of a second) in each second. This is why
 throughput is limited. Only so many users can be on one AP at the same
 time if they are requesting a large amount of the available AP
 throughput. A lightly-loaded system may appear to be able to deliver
 max
 throughput simultaneously to those few customers but when the AP is
 heavily loaded with users who are vying for a lot of throughput
 simultaneously then most of them will need to slow down because not
 everyone will get all the time slots they need to carry the high
 throughput (ex: video streaming) levels that they are requesting.

 Don't make this personal; that simply detracts from the very real
 technical limits that a successful WISP must understand in order to
 succeed and survive.

 jack


 Mike Hammett wrote:
 I didn't get that at all.

 It seems as though when anyone on this list suggests going faster
 than 2 megabits, they get beat up.  Sorry, Charlie, BA-II was outdated
 long ago.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 From: Jack Unger
 Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:55 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 So how many of your

Re: [WISPA] Fw: [Motorola II] 60% Canopy

2008-12-06 Thread RickG
I like the survey idea to pole for other questions. Has anyone done this before?
-RickG

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 A statistically significant sample is defined as a population over 30.
 For an off the cuff sample it isn't bad at all.

 - Original Message -
 From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [Motorola II] 60% Canopy


 On Sat, 6 Dec 2008, Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:

But as it is, I think this is a fairly good sampling.

 Looks like 35 responses...not sure I'd call that a fairly good
 sampling.

 --
 
 * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation*
 * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering*
 * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member*
 * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks*
 




 
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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [Motorola II] 60% Canopy

2008-12-07 Thread RickG
My Marketing Director at a previous ISP I ran used Survey Monkey back
in '99. It was helpful for our customers. Seeing it used in this
fashion as a pole amongst the peers has been enlightening. What would
be even more helpful would be to have the results posted on a website
and the survey repeated annually.
-RickG

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Anyone can make a surveymonkey survey for free.  Just go to the site and
 create one.  I have participated in several before but this is the first one
 I made.  I would have done it a little different if I knew how to use the
 options better.  Go give it a try.  Data gathering is interesting and I
 think it is good for all of us.

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [Motorola II] 60% Canopy


I like the survey idea to pole for other questions. Has anyone done this
before?
 -RickG

 On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 A statistically significant sample is defined as a population over 30.
 For an off the cuff sample it isn't bad at all.

 - Original Message -
 From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Motorola Canopy User Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [Motorola II] 60% Canopy


 On Sat, 6 Dec 2008, Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:

But as it is, I think this is a fairly good sampling.

 Looks like 35 responses...not sure I'd call that a fairly good
 sampling.

 --
 
 * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation*
 * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering*
 * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member*
 * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks*
 




 
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Re: [WISPA] Article

2008-12-07 Thread RickG
286? When did you upgrade from your 8088? :)

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Shoot, I've given up on some threads for the most part.  I just pop on once
 in a while.

 As for 486, when did those come out?  I need to get me one of them.  I'll
 bet they really rock compared to my 286!

 Have a great Christmas ol' friend!
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 5:58 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 Marlon

 I know you guys out there in the woods are a little behind but a whole day
 behind!!!

 Com'on dude. Its the fifth.

 If you don't change it now you are gonna be late for Christmas and boy is
 your family gonna be pissed!!!

 LOL

 Change the clock on that 486 machine already

 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:56:35
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 LOL  Yeah.

 It's much easier to whine than it is to join and help improve things eh?

 Mark, you still fail to grasp the difference between working to change the
 rules while living within the ones that exist.

 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 Wow...OK   Who peed in the Muddy Water and hit the Frog?

 Sheesh...

 -B-




 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 And I won't be.   I was once and put money into WISPA.When I think
 WISPA
 has the interests of all WISPS in mind when they act, then I'll
 financially
 support it.   When WISPA goes to washington DC and represents to them,
 that
 we actually WANT to be regulated, I cannot support them.   When WISPA
 consistently fights FOR all of us, and not just the narrow interests of
 those who want federal money or whatever, then I may again support WISPA
 financially.

 When the attitude that consolidation and shaking out the smaller
 players
 is a good thing goes away, then there's on more barrier down.  It may
 not
 be
 official, but people who make decisions in WISPA have said that in the
 past.
 Sorry, you lost me with that one.  Small business and mom and pop are
 the
 backbone of our economy and make up a huge segment of all the jobs in
 the
 whole country.

 Every other industry organization unabashedly opposes everything that
 costs
 them or can harm them, but the leadership continues to insist that
 somehow
 playing nice and agreeing to mandates and costs will buy us favor...
 All
 that happens is the mandates and agreements happen, the regulators
 change
 and all the goodwill supposedly bought evaportes, with the precedents
 and
 whatnot remain.  Until they understand that Washington DC is NEVER our
 friend, never to be trusted, then we're just sheep waiting to get shorn.

 Until this fundamental approach changes, no way in good conscience can I
 put
 my name on what they do or give them money.


 Sorry, that's just my opinion and it's not subject to revision and
 extension.

 This same attitude is going on still.   WISPA leadership is still
 talking
 about trying to out maneuver the big boys so as to make grants and loans
 available.   Cripes.  Yeah, like we're ever going to win the arm
 twisting
 contest to bend it in our direction?   We don't collectively have that
 much
 money or lobbyists tin DC to get our names to the top of the rolodexes.
 We
 cannot win that fight with those rules.

 We have got to start selling the value of a thriving and diverse
 industry
 that exists solely due to lack of regulation and lack of governmental
 interference and that the big players cannot play our game effectively
 and
 that betting on the big guys is like buying Enron or Lehman stock.   We
 will
 never be the providers to the masses, but there can never be affordable
 ubiquitous broadband without us.

 That might take some thought and creativity to compose the narration and
 it
 might take some skill to sell, but there's simply no rebuttal from
 Verizon
 that FIOS is ever going to make a lick of sense in a wide array of
 places.
 Or that in an era when Congress really, REALLY needs to get their fiscal
 act
 in order, that blowing vast sums to reach few people makes sense.

 It has to be about selling the value of who and what you are and why you
 are, not out muscling the big guys for a slice of pie.   That can't be
 won.
 Further, it obliterations the differences between us and them.   That
 DIFFERENCE is our strength, not our weakness.  If you're not thinking in
 those terms, then some re-thinking needs to happen.

 What will attract membership is a consistent, clear message about how we
 have and are building a thriving and healthy industry, even in these
 economic times, due to the fact that WE ARE NOT THEM and then selling
 exactly who we are.   The 

Re: [WISPA] Article

2008-12-07 Thread RickG
So you upgraded the cpu and the os from Windows 286, eh? Those were the days!

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dude!  2 years ago, maybe three.  Wow, I didn't know Windows 3.10 could run
 so well!  Sure makes life a lot easier.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 286? When did you upgrade from your 8088? :)

 On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Shoot, I've given up on some threads for the most part.  I just pop on
 once
 in a while.

 As for 486, when did those come out?  I need to get me one of them.  I'll
 bet they really rock compared to my 286!

 Have a great Christmas ol' friend!
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 5:58 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 Marlon

 I know you guys out there in the woods are a little behind but a whole
 day
 behind!!!

 Com'on dude. Its the fifth.

 If you don't change it now you are gonna be late for Christmas and boy
 is
 your family gonna be pissed!!!

 LOL

 Change the clock on that 486 machine already

 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:56:35
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 LOL  Yeah.

 It's much easier to whine than it is to join and help improve things eh?

 Mark, you still fail to grasp the difference between working to change
 the
 rules while living within the ones that exist.

 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 Wow...OK   Who peed in the Muddy Water and hit the Frog?

 Sheesh...

 -B-




 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 And I won't be.   I was once and put money into WISPA.When I think
 WISPA
 has the interests of all WISPS in mind when they act, then I'll
 financially
 support it.   When WISPA goes to washington DC and represents to them,
 that
 we actually WANT to be regulated, I cannot support them.   When WISPA
 consistently fights FOR all of us, and not just the narrow interests
 of
 those who want federal money or whatever, then I may again support
 WISPA
 financially.

 When the attitude that consolidation and shaking out the smaller
 players
 is a good thing goes away, then there's on more barrier down.  It may
 not
 be
 official, but people who make decisions in WISPA have said that in the
 past.
 Sorry, you lost me with that one.  Small business and mom and pop
 are
 the
 backbone of our economy and make up a huge segment of all the jobs in
 the
 whole country.

 Every other industry organization unabashedly opposes everything that
 costs
 them or can harm them, but the leadership continues to insist that
 somehow
 playing nice and agreeing to mandates and costs will buy us favor...
 All
 that happens is the mandates and agreements happen, the regulators
 change
 and all the goodwill supposedly bought evaportes, with the
 precedents
 and
 whatnot remain.  Until they understand that Washington DC is NEVER our
 friend, never to be trusted, then we're just sheep waiting to get
 shorn.

 Until this fundamental approach changes, no way in good conscience can
 I
 put
 my name on what they do or give them money.


 Sorry, that's just my opinion and it's not subject to revision and
 extension.

 This same attitude is going on still.   WISPA leadership is still
 talking
 about trying to out maneuver the big boys so as to make grants and
 loans
 available.   Cripes.  Yeah, like we're ever going to win the arm
 twisting
 contest to bend it in our direction?   We don't collectively have that
 much
 money or lobbyists tin DC to get our names to the top of the
 rolodexes.
 We
 cannot win that fight with those rules.

 We have got to start selling the value of a thriving and diverse
 industry
 that exists solely due to lack of regulation and lack of governmental
 interference and that the big players cannot play our game effectively
 and
 that betting on the big guys is like buying Enron or Lehman stock.
 We
 will
 never be the providers to the masses, but there can never be
 affordable
 ubiquitous broadband without us.

 That might take some thought and creativity to compose the narration
 and
 it
 might take some skill to sell, but there's simply no rebuttal from
 Verizon
 that FIOS is ever going to make a lick of sense in a wide array of
 places.
 Or that in an era when Congress really, REALLY needs to get their
 fiscal
 act
 in order, that blowing vast sums to reach few people makes sense.

 It has to be about selling the value of who and what you are and why
 you
 are, not out muscling the big guys for a slice

Re: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?

2008-12-07 Thread RickG
Which handybackup do you use? Google comes up with several.
-RickG

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We do it.  Handybackup has been a nice little program.

 What I'm stuck on is how to get ahold of a cheap enough solution for massive
 amounts of storage.  Anyone got any ideas for inexpensive storage space?

 Because handy backup encrypts everything before sending it to my servers
 security doesn't have to be super good.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:10 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?


I do, but I'm not happy with the provider I chose.  He just uses someone
 else's software, but it has so many files that it errors on, it's
 ridiculous
 I have to manually remove that file from the backup set and try again.
 With
 over a half million files...


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:19 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?

 Do any of you provide backup data services to your broadband clients as a
 value added or revenue improving service?

 Was it a success or failure?



 
 insert witty tagline here



 
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Re: [WISPA] Article

2008-12-07 Thread RickG
Unless you have a heavy duty application, even the slowest boxes out
there do the trick. Oh, except Celeron - they suck.

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Grin

 I remember putting a 286 upgrade card into what must have been an ISA slot
 on my old Tandy 1000.  Man, that made the F19 game run SOOO much
 smoother!

 I don't mess with pc's much anymore.  What speeds are machines running at?
 I was just looking at a new one for the front office.  I can't find anything
 running much faster than 2 or 2.5 ghz unless I want to spend a lot more
 money than a machine running email and quickbooks should take.  (I'll never
 do another one of those laptop based small Dell POS machines!!!  Came in
 with a bad board on it, now they have to send out another tech to fix broken
 stuff.  junk)

 laters,
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 So you upgraded the cpu and the os from Windows 286, eh? Those were the
 days!

 On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Dude!  2 years ago, maybe three.  Wow, I didn't know Windows 3.10 could
 run
 so well!  Sure makes life a lot easier.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 286? When did you upgrade from your 8088? :)

 On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Shoot, I've given up on some threads for the most part.  I just pop on
 once
 in a while.

 As for 486, when did those come out?  I need to get me one of them.
 I'll
 bet they really rock compared to my 286!

 Have a great Christmas ol' friend!
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 5:58 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 Marlon

 I know you guys out there in the woods are a little behind but a whole
 day
 behind!!!

 Com'on dude. Its the fifth.

 If you don't change it now you are gonna be late for Christmas and boy
 is
 your family gonna be pissed!!!

 LOL

 Change the clock on that 486 machine already

 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:56:35
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 LOL  Yeah.

 It's much easier to whine than it is to join and help improve things
 eh?

 Mark, you still fail to grasp the difference between working to change
 the
 rules while living within the ones that exist.

 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 Wow...OK   Who peed in the Muddy Water and hit the Frog?

 Sheesh...

 -B-




 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 And I won't be.   I was once and put money into WISPA.When I
 think
 WISPA
 has the interests of all WISPS in mind when they act, then I'll
 financially
 support it.   When WISPA goes to washington DC and represents to
 them,
 that
 we actually WANT to be regulated, I cannot support them.   When
 WISPA
 consistently fights FOR all of us, and not just the narrow interests
 of
 those who want federal money or whatever, then I may again support
 WISPA
 financially.

 When the attitude that consolidation and shaking out the smaller
 players
 is a good thing goes away, then there's on more barrier down.  It
 may
 not
 be
 official, but people who make decisions in WISPA have said that in
 the
 past.
 Sorry, you lost me with that one.  Small business and mom and pop
 are
 the
 backbone of our economy and make up a huge segment of all the jobs
 in
 the
 whole country.

 Every other industry organization unabashedly opposes everything
 that
 costs
 them or can harm them, but the leadership continues to insist that
 somehow
 playing nice and agreeing to mandates and costs will buy us favor...
 All
 that happens is the mandates and agreements happen, the regulators
 change
 and all the goodwill supposedly bought evaportes, with the
 precedents
 and
 whatnot remain.  Until they understand that Washington DC is NEVER
 our
 friend, never to be trusted, then we're just sheep waiting to get
 shorn.

 Until this fundamental approach changes, no way in good conscience
 can
 I
 put
 my name on what they do or give them money.


 Sorry, that's just my opinion and it's not subject to revision and
 extension.

 This same attitude is going on still.   WISPA leadership is still
 talking
 about trying to out maneuver the big boys so as to make grants and
 loans
 available.   Cripes.  Yeah, like we're ever going to win the arm
 twisting
 contest to bend it in our direction?   We don't collectively have

Re: [WISPA] processor and computers, what's good these days? was -- Re: Article

2008-12-08 Thread RickG
Ditto! -RickG

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I build my own machines with mainly AMD processors (there's nothing wrong
 with them, they just haven't been as fast as Intel for a round or two.  AMD
 processors are less expensive and use a lot less power.) Asus motherboards
 and video cards based on NVidia chipsets (ATI makes horrible drivers),
 Corsair memory, Antec cases, Sony optical drives, and Seagate hard drives.
 Server class systems I sometimes build from Asus or Tyan boards.  I also
 purchase them from Dell and SuperMicro.

 For anyone not myself, I usually send them to Dell.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:17 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] processor and computers,what's good these days?  was -- Re:
 Article

 Got it.  So what are the medium to good ones to watch for?

 I used to really like AMD but I'm hearing that they suck.  At least that's
 what one thought over on the isp-ceo list.

 We used to tell people to get Gateway systems.  Then we went Micron, then
 Micro Flex, now Dell.  Once in a while I'd build one for myself, but who
 wants to deal with warranty work when PC's aren't your core business?

 Service is usually the main thing that I look at when suggesting a PC to
 someone.  *I* don't want to be the one that has to help them with all of
 the
 questions that come up.

 What are you guys suggesting and using these days?

 thanks,
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 10:43 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 Different architectures, multiple processor cores per processor.  One
 processor of today can literally do the work of 4 as they have 4 little
 processors inside one physical processor.

 Kind of like how channel size isn't a very good measurement of how much
 data
 you can push through it.  There are many other factors at play.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 
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Re: [WISPA] Where is JAB when we need them

2008-12-08 Thread RickG
I've been involved with several WISP's over the past decade. The first
we used Hybrid (MMDS), second was Alvarion, third was Alvarion, fourth
was Trango. Each time, the equipment costs killed the budget and we
were always in the red. This time I'm using StarOS/WRAP for AP's and
Tranzeo for CPE. I'm considering switching to Mikrotik for AP's and
Ubiquiti for CPE. Either way, the lower costs of equipment has kept my
budget in the black and I chased my competition out of the county.
-RickG

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Big question is though, the guys using Redline  Alvarion, is their monthly
 ARPU much higher than the Canopy/Others?

 - Original Message -
 From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:56 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Where is JAB when we need them


  Redline 286 0.334058
  Alvarion 4027 4.70367
  Ubiquity 1728 2.018361
  Canopy 38583 45.06623
  Other 7816 9.129348
  Trango 11252 13.14271
  Tranzeo 10029 11.71421
  MT 11893 13.89142
  Total 85614 100

  Responses 85


 
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[WISPA] RIP

2008-12-18 Thread RickG
Anyone using RIP? Thoughts?
-RickG



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Re: [WISPA] RIP

2008-12-19 Thread RickG
My network is currently mostly WRAP boards running StarOS. As I do
maintenence, repairs, or expand new towers, I am adding Routerboards
running MT. I turned up a new Mikrotik Firewall several weeks ago.
The real reason for my question is that we turn on RIP several weeks
ago and the network seems slower.
-RickG

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote:
 On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 00:13 -0500, RickG wrote:
 Anyone using RIP? Thoughts?

 If you wish to build a NEW dynamic routing based network, use OSPF if
 you can.  If you are integrating a legacy network that is already
 running RIP, then it works, but there's a reason that NEW dynamic
 routing technologies were created.

 --
 
 * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
 * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
 * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
 * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
 




 
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[WISPA] Need service on Ocala Florida

2008-12-20 Thread RickG
Need service on Ocala Florida - offlist
-RickG



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Re: [WISPA] tranzeo's web site?

2008-12-21 Thread RickG
I just want them to make a reset button! -RickG

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
o...@odessaoffice.com wrote:
 Glad it's not just me!  grin

 Nothing particular right now.  I was just checking for any new versions.

 Well, I guess I would sure like a fix for the Tranzeo/MT problem.  Not the
 MT patch, but a proper fix from Tranzeo.

 And for Christmas I want a firmware for the Tranzeo AP's that doesn't lock
 up!

 Merry Christmas all!
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:06 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] tranzeo's web site?


 What firmware do you need.. I might have a copy for you.

 ryan


 On Dec 21, 2008, at 8:58 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

 I can't seem to get there.  www.tranzeo.com

 Says:
 Most likely causes:
  a.. The website is under maintenance.
  b.. The website has a programming error.
 Anyone else able to get there and find new firmware etc?

 It's been dead for me for 2 days now.

 laters,
 marlon



 
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Re: [WISPA] signal measurement

2008-12-29 Thread RickG
Add the l fir html on the end of that link:
http://www.praxsym.com/t-meter.html
How much do these run?
-RickG

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 6:09 PM,  lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:
 Travis,

 We have these:

 www.praxsym.com/t-meter.htm

 Bob
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net

 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:09:51
 To: isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com; WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org; 
 Motorola Canopy User Groupmotor...@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] signal measurement


 Hi,

 A while ago someone posted about a device that would measure signal
 output of a radio for testing purposes. What was the name of that device?

 Travis
 Microserv


 
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