[WISPA] New revenue stream

2006-03-07 Thread A. Huppenthal
I have client who asked me if a tasteful nude picture web server would 
be okay to deploy on the network.


They are willing to pay 5 times the normal rate for co-location, plus 
additional fees for high load times.


When I called Qwest to find out about their policy they said they aren't 
in the business of clensing the net or otherwise filtering content.


Since this server is not one of the companies, I wonder what sort of 
liability exists..


It appears this is a huge source of revenue. In fact the same crew says 
they want to provide DRM downloadable movies of the adult nature.


Now I've watched with some interest, what the major hotel chains are 
doing and how much pay per view adult movies add to their bottom line. I 
don't think this is a simple - you know I don't like it myself  - 
answer. Its policy, revenue and finding the proper ground.


Any experience with this?

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Re: [WISPA] New revenue stream *THREAD CLOSED!*

2006-03-07 Thread Alex Huppenthal
my apologies to the members of the list if they found it offensive.  
Reality is we need to consider content rules as much as need to  
consider VoIP gateways.
since you've arbitrarily decided its not 'proper content' based on  
your view, I've decided to drop my involvement in WISPA.  bye




On Mar 7, 2006, at 9:35 PM, Rick Harnish wrote:


Alex,

Please take this offlist.  This is not proper content for  
discussion on the

Wispa list servs.

Respectfully,

Rick Harnish
President
Supernova Technologies, Inc.
260-827-2482 Office
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Founding Member of WISPA
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] New revenue stream

I have client who asked me if a tasteful nude picture web server would
be okay to deploy on the network.

They are willing to pay 5 times the normal rate for co-location, plus
additional fees for high load times.

When I called Qwest to find out about their policy they said they  
aren't

in the business of clensing the net or otherwise filtering content.

Since this server is not one of the companies, I wonder what sort of
liability exists..

It appears this is a huge source of revenue. In fact the same crew  
says

they want to provide DRM downloadable movies of the adult nature.

Now I've watched with some interest, what the major hotel chains are
doing and how much pay per view adult movies add to their bottom  
line. I

don't think this is a simple - you know I don't like it myself  -
answer. Its policy, revenue and finding the proper ground.

Any experience with this?

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Re: [WISPA] Canopy Site, off-power-grid

2006-03-06 Thread Alex Huppenthal
Plan for an amp hour / hour..  24 amp hours / day. if you buy a  
couple of 100 amp hour walmart marine batteries you'd have 200/24 or  
about 9 days of run time without solar. I don't know what solar  
planning you need in Jersey. DoE has some maps of the US for solar  
planning - if it works out you only have 4 8 hour days around dec  
21st to charge your batteries, you'd need to calculate feeding the  
load - 1 amp continuous for 24 hours - which means 24 / 8 solar hours  
= 3 amps during that 8 hours for the load, plus battery charge time  
input. So, if you plan to charge the batteries to peak from zero in 3  
days, you'd need 200 / (8 hours (charge day) * 3) or about 9 amps for  
that. So a solar array might be 9 + 3 or 12 amps output @ 12 volts.  
The Moto stuff will work fine @ 12 volts, even though they are spec'd  
for higher. Finding a good 12 volt switch or router that suits you  
and draws little current can be a struggle.


hope this helps. by the way, I'm in Califon for the next couple of days.

On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:01 AM, Rick Smith wrote:



Need to install a short tower as a relay on a mountaintop, no power  
within 3/4 mile.


Anyone done battery / generator sites with one Canopy AP, one  
Canopy SM and a router, like Mikrotik in between ?


This is in NJ, not too good an environment for solar I imagine,  
although we'll be on a real high hill top (1250' elev) for this  
area...


R

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Re: [WISPA] ATT merging with BellSouth

2006-03-05 Thread Alex Huppenthal
Google's market cap is $126 billion.. Still smaller than this new  
company, but close. Start a company with google's vision but for  
telcom and get a $150 billion market cap.. :-)



On Mar 5, 2006, at 9:56 AM, Frank Muto wrote:


NYT/WSJ

ATT Inc. is nearing the acquisition of BellSouth Corp. for roughly  
$65
billion, people familiar with the situation said Saturday evening.  
A deal

could be announced as early as Monday, these people said.

Final terms of the deal could not be learned Saturday evening, but  
these
people said ATT Inc. would pay a premium for BellSouth shares of  
at least
15%, valuing the company at $36 per share at least, up from its  
trading
price Friday of $31.46. That would push the total equity value of  
the deal
to at least $65 billion, plus the assumption of an additional $17  
billion of

BellSouth debt.

Spokespeople for BellSouth and ATT declined to comment.

An ATT-BellSouth deal would effectively cleave the nation's telecom
services in two, each vertically integrated with a local phone  
operation,
business services, and wireless unit. And it would effectively  
validate the
vision of competition laid out by the government -- one in which  
traditional
telecom firms compete directly against cable operators rather than  
against
each other. The move would give ATT Inc. sole control over  
Cingular, the

nation's largest wireless operator.

A combination between ATT and BellSouth could have combined market
capitalization of nearly $160 billion, making ATT far larger than  
rival
Verizon. The deal would nonetheless set a showdown between ATT and  
Verizon,
as the two fight to control wireless, the growth portion of the  
telecom

business.

It was the steep growth of Cingular -- joint owned by BellSouth and  
the
former SBC -- that helped push the two firms together, say telecom  
bankers
familiar with the space. As the importance of the wireless business  
grew,
they say, it became inevitable that SBC (which adopted the ATT  
name just

months ago) would consolidate its position in the South.

Put together, the SBC territory would extend from California to  
Florida,
north to Illinois and south to Texas. Combining the two companies'  
current
market capitalizations, ATT would have a market value approaching  
$150

billion, over 50% greater than Verizon.

ATT Chairman and Chief Executive Edward Whitacre has made a name for
himself in the telecommunications industry as a serial acquirer.
Mr. Whitacre is able to boast of a string of acquisitions including  
Pacific
Telesis Corp., Ameritech Corp. and Southern New England  
Telecommunications
Corp. But as he nears retirement the market had been anticipating  
one last
hurrah from him; a BellSouth acquisition by ATT has long been the  
subject

of speculation from analysts, investors and the two companies' rivals.

Still the speedy move to acquire BellSouth came as a surprise so  
soon after

Mr. Whitacre's takeover of ATT Corp. last fall. His company is just
starting to digest the $16 billion acquisition. The former SBC
Communications Inc. took over ATT Corp. and adopted the ATT  
moniker. The
new company dominates nearly every aspect of the industry, from  
high-speed
Internet connections to long-distance phone service, as well as  
wireless.

And Mr. Whitacre now has access to the old
ATT's enterprise business and world-wide network.

Such a deal would likely prompt howls of protest in some quarters  
as it
comes on the heels not only of the ATT-SBC deal but also after  
Verizon
Communications Inc.'s acquisition of MCI. Those deals were approved  
with

only a few minor conditions despite concerns they would lead to higher
prices for business customers.
The wave of mergers has dramatically reshaped the telecom industry,  
and a
purchase of BellSouth would further cement the recreation of the  
old Ma

Bell, which the
government pushed to break up in 1984.

The management of ATT, which has apparently briefed key senior  
government
officials late last week, appears to be betting that the Bush  
administration
and a Bell-friendly Federal Communications Commission won't raise  
too many

obstacles for such a deal, arguing that the companies serve different
geographic regions and do not currently compete with one another in a
significant way.

Although ATT and Verizon's last mergers passed both FCC and Justice
Department review with little major problems, the latest proposed  
merger may
face more hurdles. Recent comments by ATT and BellSouth executives  
about

their intentions to explore new revenue streams from their high-speed
Internet services by introducing two-tier or premium service for  
Internet

content providers. Concerns about those plans and the concept of net
neutrality, or ensuring that consumers have open access to all  
Internet
sites and services and businesses do not find their content slowed,  
has

become a major problems for the Bells in Washington.

Meanwhile, the FCC that will be reviewing the 

Re: [WISPA] Basic Mesh Theory

2006-02-26 Thread A. Huppenthal

I haven't read your summary yet, but would like to chime in a bit on Mesh...

When the DoD developed TCP/IP, they built it to be robust under war-time 
conditions. This means fault tolerant, rerouting, change-over, change-back.


It would wonderful to hear the Mesh scientists (not sales people) 
describe what it is about mesh that gives it an edge over TCP/IP 
protocols, including their routing protocols.


I'll read your notes with some interest, in the hopes they'll shed some 
light on this fundemental question. Else, historically mesh has been a 
crapola of marketing hype, generalizations, and I have it nailed crap 
intended to fuel someone's new car or new house, new sales organization 
- and not provide any real customer/network operator benefit. In my 
humble opinion.


I personally have spoken to Microsoft's development leader on Mesh and 
had it explained that dozens of PhD's were working on Mesh solutions at 
MS. Ah, okay, I'm guess Motorola and 10 other companies are doing this 
as well.


Has anyone deployed a TCP/IP network that's fault tolerant - along the 
lines of the DoD's intent for the network? Using 'Mesh' or otherwise.


I'm all ear.



Matt Liotta wrote:
Attached is a quick rundown of basic mesh theory that I put together 
in light of the recent thread. It hasn't been peer reviewed or edited, 
which I would normally do before sharing publicly. But since I only 
wrote because of a thread on this list I figured I would just share 
it. Feel free to pick it apart.


I do want to point out a couple of things though. First, this was 
written in a generic way only covering mesh as a theory. As written it 
can be applied to various transport technologies from fiber to 
wireless; though I do provide an example using wireless P2P links. 
Applying mesh theory to wireless P2MP or ad-hoc networks would require 
special coverage.


-Matt


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Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st

2006-02-25 Thread A. Huppenthal
I don't think WISPA should police WISPs. The organization does encourage 
conforming to FCC regs, and we've seen numerous postings from Marlon and 
others answering difficult rule interpretation. That's the best focus 
for our energies as a WISP organization - that is; making FCC links and 
docs available where needed, providing liaison between FCC and WISPs to 
accomodate WISPs customers needs... That's my stand.


John J. Thomas wrote:

There has been so much talk about this, I might be inclined to help the FCC find those 
WISPs that are snubbing their noses at the law. This is a professional list and those 
here should be abiding by the law. I wonder if it would be a good thing to kick 
out those that promote illegal activities?

Whether you like it or not, WISPs will eventually be taxed- I guarantee the 
ILECs will see to that. If the FCC wants you, they will eventually find you.

John Thomas


  

-Original Message-
From: Frank Muto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 06:20 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st

http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.pdf


20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477?

Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so may be subject 
to the


enforcement provisions of the Communications Act and any other applicable 
law. In


particular, the Commission has authority pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of 
the


Communications Act to enforce compliance by fine or forfeiture.





Frank Muto
Co-founder -  Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA
Telecom Summit Ad Hoc Committee
http://gigabytemarch.blog.com/ www.wbia.us














- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; Marlon Schafer 
(509-982-2181) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st




OK...OK.

I agree that all should probably file.  I have several partners so I am 
not the only one to decide so I will leave it at that as it pertains to my 
WISP entity.


BUT...What is the penalty for not filing  Does anyone know???  Can 
we get an official statement for this situation? Are there fines? 
Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty gram??  Do they not send me a xmas card 
next year??  What???


It may help bring more compliance or it may result in less filings. 
Either way I think the membership should know.


Marlon...How about asking some of your contacts.

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] DSL - NJ / PA Sprint / Verizon

2006-02-23 Thread A. Huppenthal
contact the dsl loop provider. in some states, like CO, you need an ATM 
connection to the Qwest cloud, with specific ATM features - and then its 
pretty simple. you pay per loop, Qwest sends the ATM cells over to you 
on a specific virtual path (vpi,vci) -- you provide the IP services to 
the customer. You'll need to check for a wholesaler that has DSL loops 
available in the Central Offices serving the areas you are interested 
in. They'll tell you what deal they have. Occasionally (like with Qwest) 
you can sell your IP access over their ATM network, and/or you can sell 
their IP over the DSL.


Things are changing rapidly however. Some LECs are pulling their DSL 
facilities out of wholesale, disallowing ISPs to use the DSL/copper. 
You've probably heard from the government - bigger is better, the LECs 
aren't monopolies, and if they are, its really a good thing. ;-) off my 
soap box now...


Good luck. If you find a stable DSL provider, see if you can't use DSL 
loops (very cheap) to extend your APs to areas you might serve. Be 
advised there are several national DSL providers - most of which suck in 
my opinion, and you'll need to actually test the performance of their 
product. We've seen DSL sold to us as 1.5 megabit that rarely reached 
768K and the jerks were charging a huge premium. If you need their name, 
contact me offline.


My experience with Qwest has been surprisingly good, on the other hand.

Rick Smith wrote:


How does a WISP go about adding DSL resale to its list of services.

I'd like to resell some DSL access to places we can't provide wireless.

Need to deal with Sprint Local in Sussex / Warren Counties, VCerizon 
in Morris County, and Warwick Valley Telephone in upper Sussex County, 
NJ and Orange County, NY.


If anyone has any contacts in Verizon for starters, please let me know 
how you got started reselling DSL...


R



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Re: [WISPA] VOIP BOC?

2006-02-23 Thread A. Huppenthal
I wonder what we should start calling the new telcos. There are 3 
international companies that control nearly all of telcom today. 
Verizon/MCI, SBC that bought Cingular/ATT, and Sprint/Nextel. They 
aren't Bell Operating Companies. They are really big, mostly unchecked 
mega-telcos. RBMTs.. :-)


Peter R. wrote:
The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the 
infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the 
industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and 
cost.


In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not 
accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to.


BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings, 
so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game 
(and can do 911) and bundle on one bill.


You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this), 
but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP?


Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable.

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


I don't understand your point about selling on margins.

I was merely asking for a wholesale product that was priced less than
RETAIL.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have yet to figure out how it is all the wholesale products are
currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail
offerings.

There's no margin in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP 
service

with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per
customer.

I didn't say I wanted a fat margin.  I just said I wanted something I
could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than 
retail to
get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale 
costs

more than retail.

If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little 
strange.   As

best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and
customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of 
dealing
with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure.   
Nobody

seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of
ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has 
advantages, one
would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, 
maybe
not.   The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost 
effective to

scale upwards, more so than customer service.
 



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Re: [WISPA] bandwidth

2006-02-16 Thread A. Huppenthal
Trango makes a backhaul unit in the 5.4 space, I wonder if they are now 
legal. Any Trango rep here?


Brad Larson wrote:

Alvarion. Brad


Brad Larson
Northeast Regional Manager
Alvarion 
965 Rakestraw Rd

Montoursville, PA 17754
Phone 570-433-4608
Cell 570-419-0029
Fax 570-433-4603




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] bandwidth


Are any vendors shipping products which are FCC certified for these
frequencies?

Thanks

Dan


  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On


Behalf
  

Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] bandwidth

Last month, the FCC officially opened up the use of the middle band of
the Unlicensed National Information Infrastructure (UNII) spectrum
(5.470 GHz to 5.725 GHz) to 54Mbps 802.11a Wi-Fi networks in the United
States. The band adds another 255 MHz and 11 channels to the existing
325 MHz and 13 channels available for Wi-Fi in this band.

As of January 20, any products that apply for certification in the 5.470
GHz to 5.725 GHz band or in the lower end of the UNII band at 5.25
GHz to 5.35 GHz, were required to support dynamic frequency selection
(DFS) and transmit power control (TPC) to minimize interference, per a
February 2005 FCC order
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-43A1.pdf.

 From Joanie Wexler...


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[WISPA] bandwidth

2006-02-15 Thread A. Huppenthal
Last month, the FCC officially opened up the use of the middle band of 
the Unlicensed National Information Infrastructure (UNII) spectrum 
(5.470 GHz to 5.725 GHz) to 54Mbps 802.11a Wi-Fi networks in the United 
States. The band adds another 255 MHz and 11 channels to the existing 
325 MHz and 13 channels available for Wi-Fi in this band.


As of January 20, any products that apply for certification in the 5.470 
GHz to 5.725 GHz band or in the lower end of the UNII band at 5.25 
GHz to 5.35 GHz, were required to support dynamic frequency selection 
(DFS) and transmit power control (TPC) to minimize interference, per a 
February 2005 FCC order 
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-43A1.pdf.


From Joanie Wexler...


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[WISPA] Canopy Lite $200 per SM MSRP

2006-01-12 Thread A. Huppenthal
Moto announced their Lite SM - $200 list. Slow - 500Kbit. Designed to 
compete with dialup. Speed upgrades available this year, according to 
their announcement - up to 7 mbit.


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[WISPA] Board Resignation

2006-01-03 Thread A. Huppenthal

WISPA Board and Members:

 As of today, I resign my role as Board Member and Treasurer of the 
Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA). I don't have 
the interest in continuing in either role.


I'm enjoying working directly with the membership. The membership 
should continue to evolve, develop new benefits based on the power of 
numbers in the membership. I highly recommend the membership continue to 
define WISPA, its goals, its benefits and its operation, as it is still 
*all new*, and do this periodically.


I look forward to the membership's first formal meeting.

Sincerely,

 Alex Huppenthal


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Re: [WISPA] Vivato

2005-12-26 Thread A. Huppenthal

there is power in those numbers..

Rick Smith wrote:


What's pitiful is, vivato wasted $65 MM of investor capital.

All that money divided by 3,000 WISPs = $21,000 each.   Doesn't sound like a 
lot, but we could probably build a decent nationwide
wisp network with that kinda cash in each our pockets.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Vivato

I'll put up some $$ for the membership to buy Vivato's intellectual property 
and inventory.. :-) We just need 1,000 other members.

Peter R. wrote:

 

December 16, 2005 – Vivato, Inc. announced today that it has made the 
decision to cease to operate as a going concern, and to wind down its 
operations. This difficult decision was deemed by Vivato to be in the 
best interest of creditors, shareholders and customers, based upon the 
Company’s projection of its future results.
   



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[WISPA] Merry Christmas

2005-12-25 Thread A. Huppenthal

Enjoy this holiday song.
http://aspenworks.us/merryxmas.swf
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Re: [WISPA] 48 volt power supplies

2005-12-22 Thread A. Huppenthal

ah, strap a couple of 24 volt batteries on with some chargers.. :-)
ps: we do that for backup - less expensive than a UPS. We run Redline 
equipment - relatively high current - for 4 days w/o electricity. works 
great. be sure to get a charger that resets properly after the A/C kicks 
out - we learned that lesson on the 5th day of the first outage :-)



Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


RFlinx has 48v POE supplies 60watts.

www.rflinx.com

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:37 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] 48 volt power supplies

Can anyone hook me up with a source for the 48 volt supplies? I need to 
buy some of those DS3 to Ethernet converters and they require that 
supply. I have never seen them before and need a source. Also, does 
anyone have a manual and/or drawings of the PCOM radios we are buying? I


need to start reading up on these radios to make sure I know what all I 
need to get them installed. Please help if you have a source of 
information on them. If any of you have experience with the PCOMs and 
DS3 to Ethernet converters I would like to pick your brain on a few

things.
Many thanks,
Scriv

 


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Re: [WISPA] Merry Christmas folks

2005-12-15 Thread A. Huppenthal

Mac, Merry Christmas to you too. Beautiful sentiment.



Mac Dearman wrote:



I thought I would drop a line this morning wishing all of you a Merry 
Christmas. I appreciate WISPA and all of its members. Hey guys - - - 
it has come to pass!! It was a lot of hard work for a lot of you and I 
look for great things to happen in the future. Rome was not built in 
one night!  A special thanks to the board for continuing efforts and 
over seeing of all us idiots! :-)


My one word of advice for all of us as we enter these holidays is:

Hold your family tight - tell them  that you love them and give them 
all  a big ole' nasty kiss! You never know when it will be the last 
opportunity to show your love for them. Family is like your eye's and 
ears in that you only get one set in a life time - - cherish them!!


you too HARNISH!!


Merry Christmas,

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600
318-376-2562 - cell



http://www.wispa.org/



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Re: [WISPA] Merry Christmas

2005-12-15 Thread A. Huppenthal
For those who have no family, be assured that you aren't alone during 
the Holiday season, embrace your friends and associates, enjoy a season 
of giving and love even among those you may not  know well. Its a great 
time for all of us to become closer, forgive one another's mistakes, and 
look forward to a creative, caring  New Year, in a spirit of 
independence, self-reliance and strength.


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Re: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi

2005-12-15 Thread A. Huppenthal
I'd heard that they'd promised New Orleans police department an 
abandoned Bell South building but decided against that since the muni 
project was still alive.


dustin jurman wrote:


I think that is supposed to be 1.5 meg a seconds.  They use navini and this
is just a response to shut down the new Orleans muni project.  And the
reason they don't support VOIP over it is because navini sucks.  This is
Bellsouth's way of saying look! - SHINNY BLUE THING!

Dustin  


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] BellSouth and Wi-Fi

http://www.telecomweb.com/news/1134594567.htm

Post Katrina: Mississippi Gets Wireless Broadband

BellSouth has begun deploying high-speed wireless broadband speeds as fast
as 1.5 Gb/s in Gulfport and Biloxi, Miss., modifying the company's original
wireless broadband rollout plans in order to get service to residents of the
hurricane-ravaged area, where the infrastructure damage is so huge it hasn't
been fixed yet.

The incumbent local exchange carrier (ILEC), whose original rollout plans
envisioned only offering wide-area wireless broadband in rural areas, is
also offering residents of the Mississippi towns a bit of a discount out of
sympathy for their plight - and, of course, the good publicity it might get
out of the move.

Small businesses and homeowners are still rebuilding, and they are looking
to BellSouth to provide the critical communications they need to get their
lives in order, says John McCullouch, president of BellSouth's Mississippi
operations. Our wireless broadband service will provide customers with a
viable and economical solution for high-speed Internet access.

A BellSouth spokeswoman added that, after blanketing the hurricane-hit
cities, the carrier will now return to our original strategy of (offering
wireless broadband in) areas from suburbia on out, where such services as
DSL can't be delivered economically.

About a month ago, BellSouth began offering a high-speed wireless service in
downtown New Orleans, but that was priced as a small-business service only.
It was absolutely critical to getting the city up and running, the
BellSouth spokeswoman explained, regarding the decision not to offer a
residential plan.

One thing BellSouth is not offering the Mississippi residents, however, is
voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) on its shiny, new, wireless broadband.
The company had no explanation of why, other than the simple fact that it's
not going to offer it for now. For more on BellSouth's wireless rollout
progress in the Gulf area, read the current issue of Broadband Business
Forecast. For a trial subscription, go to
http://www.telecomweb.com/cgi/catalog/info?BNN.

Thank you.

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect  Communicate
813.963.5884 or 985.240.4156
fax 305.675.6494
http://4isps.com



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[WISPA] Classified Ads [EMAIL PROTECTED]

2005-12-14 Thread A. Huppenthal

I checked, we don't have classified ads at WISPA.

While I was messing around with the Group Buy listserver... I decided to 
setup what I suggested a week ago or so.. A list for classifed ads. I'll 
be posting a bunch of stuff shortly.


Subscribe by sending an email to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], if you like.

 I'm going to use the form: Subject: Mfg, Model, Quanty, Price or OBO 
whatever. to make it easy to scan for products in the subject line.


 Have fun.

-Alex


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Re: [WISPA] Classified Ads [EMAIL PROTECTED]

2005-12-14 Thread A. Huppenthal
I had no idea there was a classified list someplace. Noted that WISPA 
had a goal item to create one, and when I posted the suggestion earlier, 
I hadn't heard another such list existed.- so, I made one. :-) Likely no 
need for duplicate lists, unless policy, format or other differences 
suggest there should be two. I'll look now that I know.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


I know Kory has a site set up for ads.

Maybe you can get ideas from it or maybe we don't need another?
Didn't know if you knew about it.

Brian

A. Huppenthal wrote:


I checked, we don't have classified ads at WISPA.

While I was messing around with the Group Buy listserver... I decided 
to setup what I suggested a week ago or so.. A list for classifed 
ads. I'll be posting a bunch of stuff shortly.


Subscribe by sending an email to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], if you like.

 I'm going to use the form: Subject: Mfg, Model, Quanty, Price or OBO 
whatever. to make it easy to scan for products in the subject line.


 Have fun.

-Alex






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Re: [WISPA] Classified Ads [EMAIL PROTECTED]

2005-12-14 Thread A. Huppenthal
Okay, I see. Its more like a real classifed ad system. It has the upside 
of that. On the other hand it has lots of ads and stuff other than 
classifeds. I don't think there's any harm in leaving the liserver 
verion up. I've posted a couple of Atlas radios, a Canon cam we bought 
for site surveys but got little use of, and will be posting other stuff.




Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Duh.  Where is the link??

http://www.wispclassifieds.com/

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


I know Kory has a site set up for ads.

Maybe you can get ideas from it or maybe we don't need another?
Didn't know if you knew about it.

Brian

A. Huppenthal wrote:


I checked, we don't have classified ads at WISPA.

While I was messing around with the Group Buy listserver... I 
decided to setup what I suggested a week ago or so.. A list for 
classifed ads. I'll be posting a bunch of stuff shortly.


Subscribe by sending an email to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], if you 
like.


 I'm going to use the form: Subject: Mfg, Model, Quanty, Price or 
OBO whatever. to make it easy to scan for products in the subject line.


 Have fun.

-Alex








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Re: [WISPA] Classified Ads [EMAIL PROTECTED]

2005-12-14 Thread A. Huppenthal
Nice. Glad to see there are others trying to promote independent WISPs 
success out there.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


You never heard of Kory Mohr?  He has these sites..

http://www.wispcentric.com/
http://www.wispdirectory.com/
http://www.startawisp.com/
http://www.wispclassifieds.com/

He's a good dude and puts in a lot of work for the industry and for 
WISPs.


A. Huppenthal wrote:

I had no idea there was a classified list someplace. Noted that WISPA 
had a goal item to create one, and when I posted the suggestion 
earlier, I hadn't heard another such list existed.- so, I made one. 
:-) Likely no need for duplicate lists, unless policy, format or 
other differences suggest there should be two. I'll look now that I 
know.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


I know Kory has a site set up for ads.

Maybe you can get ideas from it or maybe we don't need another?
Didn't know if you knew about it.

Brian

A. Huppenthal wrote:


I checked, we don't have classified ads at WISPA.

While I was messing around with the Group Buy listserver... I 
decided to setup what I suggested a week ago or so.. A list for 
classifed ads. I'll be posting a bunch of stuff shortly.


Subscribe by sending an email to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED], if you 
like.


 I'm going to use the form: Subject: Mfg, Model, Quanty, Price or 
OBO whatever. to make it easy to scan for products in the subject 
line.


 Have fun.

-Alex










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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
frankly, if I'm buying them for 50% off, I'll buy a spare for every 50 
units I buy. failure rate on moto's is about 1 in 100


Travis Johnson wrote:

And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, 
so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
Warranty? what warranty? Do you all really have warranty problems. 
Switch vendors. :-)
Moto doesn't have a warranty program. They die, you throw them away. 
Returning them to my x-distributor resulted in the same thing. They lost 
the returns. Screw it. Buy cheap and manage your own warranty. If you 
really want the warranty, perhaps the group buy co-ordinator would like 
to recive $2 extra per radio to put up a website with MAC addresses and 
to handle each return for $20. But really, I don't want to have anything 
to do with warrenty - We're talking $250 items. If you are buying lots 
of APs, well, get a spare and return through the distributor that sold 
the 'lot' to the buying group. Moto doesn't sell direct for example - 
unless you are government. Hey, wait, can we be a government? Know 
anyone on an Indian reservation? They are a government. :-) Perhaps 
they'd like to get involved. There are few Indian businesses in my area, 
unfortunately.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it.
First step.  Principal Members only.  You want a deal, fork over 200 
some bucks and support the industry.
Second step.  Find 10 people who want ten units.  (500 if possible, 
but prolly 100 pack to start)

Third step.  Go to moto website and look up resellers.
fourth step.  Call resellers and get quote.  Say look here.  I have a 
buying group.  I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped 
to 10 addresses.  Send me a quote to email  Forward quote to next 
reseller and go from there.  Whoever is cheaper wins.  If they want 
the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a 
deal.  Am I acting like a know it all Charles?  Would all the 
resellers say screw you if I approached like this?
If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust 
here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re 
ship from here.  Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra 
shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured 
before hand.


I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work.  Only 
question is how warranty is handled.  By MAC addy or by who bought the 
radio.


Someone let me know if my approach is out of line.  Never done this 
and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls)


Brian

A. Huppenthal wrote:


Charles,

I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is 
I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't 
difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a 
closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. 
I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization.


However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, 
George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs 
if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, 
training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. 
Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct 
to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors 
for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't 
pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*..


Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly 
doesn't support group buys.


The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends 
when the product is delivered.



Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee

Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
Like I said 1 to 100 failures. Usually we drop them from a roof, or run 
one over.. Often times they still work, but often they don't Its a piece 
of plastic housing with a single board inside. You can get a replacement 
case for $15 as I recall. Nice to have a few around for demo to 
customers. They build them for $25 probably, open one up - there's 
nothing in there. An Altera FPGA - well, other programmable gate array.. 
basically 'make your hardware' on a chip technology.  Check out HDLs if 
you are interested - its how I designed our first DSL modem. Moto isn't 
stupid. Its a good design. The hardware just jumped up a bit in 
complexity recently - but the price jump was nuts. Moto stays in this 
business becasue they are making lots and lots of money. Its not a lost 
leader.


As far as hacking them go.. well, Rich Comroe might tell us.. Hey Rich - 
can we get an HDL for the Moto? :-) oh yea, I can see this list cracking 
open the HDL.. :-) its such a paradigm change... it isn't really like 
programming, well.. as much as programming is like jazz dancing, I suppose.


But crapola boys, we have on the smartest guys in the Motorola Land  - 
one of their top technology leaders as a member of list here. Ask him, 
I'm not anywhere close to the design other than tearing the chips appart 
out of curiousity. He's not  sales man, Rich, didn't we first meet when 
you were VP of Engineering @ Moto? I could be wrong it was yonks ago.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap.  (would 
have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price)


Whoever buys the gear.  Group name or Joe Blow.
Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled?  If I buy gear 
on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty?  Or is it void because I 
didn't buy from authorized reseller?


Brian

Travis Johnson wrote:

And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group 
name, so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
I like the 100 pack - but Mote sometimes gives away a couple of 
backhuals with a 500 pack and other promos.. They change from time to 
time, whomever wants to run with it will have to make some calls. once 
we go underground on this deal, we can have a couple of teleconferences, 
and I'll cough up my secrets. To some degree its not a good idea to get 
to the precise suppliers, prices, deals and so on on a public list.. 
Sometimes Moto takes a dim view of group buys, and snaps the elastic of 
the distributor in unpleasent ways


Travis Johnson wrote:

Also, how much of a real savings are you going to see buying a 500 
pack compared with a 100 pack? I'm not sure how the pricing structure 
works with Moto, but with other places the biggest savings is from 
10/20 packs to 100 or 250 packs. Going from 100 to 500 yields very 
minimal changes ($10 per SM/SU would be my guess).


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap.  (would 
have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price)


Whoever buys the gear.  Group name or Joe Blow.
Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled?  If I buy 
gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty?  Or is it void 
because I didn't buy from authorized reseller?


Brian

Travis Johnson wrote:

And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group 
name, so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase 
that 500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to 
unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers 
don't sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative 
fee /

margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a 
huge

loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of 
the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

It'll work, you just do it. The details are all bulls*it.

Set up a closed email list for people who are interested. If you can 
wait a week or two I can setup an email list for that, if you like. 
People who aren't interested are going to give you one million reason 
why the earth is flat, or whatever their view is.


My only concern is that someone gets screwed because there is a liar, 
cheat, thief in the process. Else, its cheap gear for cheap prices that 
*works*. However, if your don't know that, likely you'll need an AP. 
hmmm... if anyone wants to borrow a 5.7 AP from me, you can. I'll lend 
it out for a week, you pay the post both ways and *if* it come back 
broken, *you* agree to replace it in 10 days with a working one. Turns 
out i have enough canopy stuff until late Jan. Contact me off-list if 
you like. Frankly if the group buy guy wants to handle loaners to the 
membership/group that's find with me. I'll toss $100 in the kitty toward 
4 loaner APs - a 5.2, 5.7, 2.4 (junk) and 900 mhz (I'll never use).. Got 
a paypal account, I'll send the money now.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts.  
What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know there are a 
number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions worth of gear 
all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of 
the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If ten people can 
install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we look, I bet there is 
a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k 
a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
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Technology Architects
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
The risk should be - the guy who gets my money sends me my SMs.. These 
things come in single unit boxes, so repacking them isn't a huge deal. 
10 boxes of 10 each? I think that's a reasonable limit. Trusting someone 
on the list to do the buy with my $2600 is fine. I'll do some due 
diligience on the group buyer. If there's some references, an address, a 
person we know, we'll that's all fine wit me. Paypal has some control 
over what you suggest is a hole.


Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit 
card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. 
However, either the distributor will put each order in different names 
(thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under 
a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a 
single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit 
card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the 
purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and 
the distributor just lost big money.


This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project 
and someone will have to take them all...


Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
all shipped to different addresses and charged to different 
accounts.  What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know 
there are a number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions 
worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became 
resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If 
ten people can install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we 
look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase 
volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year wouldn't be stretching the 
imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating

the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com







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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

cool

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say.

Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit 
card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. 
However, either the distributor will put each order in different 
names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go 
under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only 
a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit 
card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the 
purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and 
the distributor just lost big money.


This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project 
and someone will have to take them all...


Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever 
WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and 
have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to 
different accounts.  What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   
I know there are a number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do 
millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs 
and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their 
volume up.  If ten people can install ten a month.  That is 1200 a 
year.  If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to 
increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year wouldn't be stretching 
the imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating

the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase 
that 500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to 
unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers 
don't sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative 
fee /

margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a 
huge

loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of 
the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com









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Re: [WISPA] E-commerce help - Anyone want to make a consulting fee?

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

try salesforce.com


John Scrivner wrote:

I am sorry for this off-topic post but I need a favor. I need to know 
what e-commerce solution works best for an application where a company 
has several sales people/outlets and we need to track sales by each 
agent's referring web site. All transactions will go through one 
shopping cart and merchant account. Ideally we would like for the 
referring web address of the agent to automatically populate the agent 
identification data field of the sales report generated as each agent 
will have their own unique web address. I would like for agents to be 
able to see their sales via a web login database. Is this something 
that a merchant account will track for you? I would assume I would 
need to be able to track sales locally on the shopping cart end and be 
able to reference merchant account data to make sure it all balances. 
This will be my first e-commerce site and it is a big one. We need to 
track sales by agent for commissions. Can anyone help with this? I 
will gladly pay for consulting if this is complicated to setup. I just 
need help and have very little e-commerce background. Please send me 
your thoughts on this off list. I am sorry for off-topic post.

Thank you,
Scriv



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Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

Nice!

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Read it and weep nay sayers  ;-)

I found a VAR to work with.

Prices for canopy 900.

Connectorized-  $262.60
Integrated-  $328.7

All details are being posted to Principal Members List.
You must be a paid WISPA member to take advantage of the offer.
I'd like to get an estimate of volume to the VAR. 
Pay up to WISPA and hit me offlist to how many you think you could use 
a month (you won't be committed to this, it's just for a general idea)


Brian

Ron Wallace wrote:

Go for it Brian, Doesn't matter what others think, if we can save some 
money, good.


Ron Wallace

 Original message 
 


Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:58:47 -0500
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices  
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org


I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. 

First step.  Principal Members only.  You want a deal, fork over 200 
some bucks and support the industry.
Second step.  Find 10 people who want ten units.  (500 if possible, 
   

but 
 


prolly 100 pack to start)
Third step.  Go to moto website and look up resellers.
fourth step.  Call resellers and get quote.  Say look here.  I have a 
buying group.  I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped 
   

to 
 

10 addresses.  Send me a quote to email  Forward quote to next 
   

reseller 
 

and go from there.  Whoever is cheaper wins.  If they want the 
   

business 
 

of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal.  Am I 
acting like a know it all Charles?  Would all the resellers say screw 
you if I approached like this?
If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust 
   

here) 
 

run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship 
   

from 
 

here.  Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra 
shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured 
before hand.


I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work.  Only 
   

question 
 


is how warranty is handled.  By MAC addy or by who bought the radio.

Someone let me know if my approach is out of line.  Never done this 
   

and 
 


might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls)

Brian

A. Huppenthal wrote:

   


Charles,

I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact 
 

is 
 

I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't 
difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a 
closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to 
 

apples. 
 


I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization.

However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send 
 

Jim, 
 

George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs 
if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need 
 

support, 
 

training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. 
Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct 
to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors 
for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't 
pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*..


Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly 
doesn't support group buys.


The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it 
 

ends 
 


when the product is delivered.


Charles Wu wrote:

 


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP 
   


and
 


getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying 
   


group
 

faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that 
   


the
 

buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor 
   


will
 


require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase 
   


that 500
 


pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to 
   

unforseen 
 


things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers 
   

don't 
 


sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
   

excess 
 


units

Now

Re: [WISPA] Orthogon Spectra

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

I don't mean to be negative, but I get calls from their sales guys - I
ask some simple questions and can't get them answered, so I don't buy
them. I'm all ears about their backhauls.. *seem* like a great deal to me.

Paul Hendry wrote:


Hi guys,

 

Looking at getting a couple of Spectra’s but was wondering 
if someone could enlighten me a little. The Spectra can supposedly 
achieve 300mb aggregate throughput. Do Orthogon achieve this by using 
compression? If so, what sort of rate are you likely to get in ideal 
conditions but using highly compressed data? Does anyone know what the 
difference is between the Spectra and the Spectra lite?


 


Cheers,

 


P.

 



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Re: [WISPA] Things you might be interested in

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

Did you try RMS for your monitoring / control hardware?
http://www.bndcom.com/rms/rms.htm

They are $500 list, have 3 relays remote controllable - NO/and NC 
connections, so if you want a fail over to closed you can do it. There's 
5 or 6 voltmeters, a 1/2 dozen TTL level contact closure sense items, 
low current draw - decent scripts.


Haven't seen any for $200, but the guys at BND have said they are 
working on a new one - maybe lower cost.


---
What do you mean by thermo-electric generator? Something that works from 
Geo-Thermal sources?


Sterling has some interesting stuff. .:_)

---

Great ideas. We've built lots of remote sites and frankly $800 / hour 
for a heli ride when things go south is crazy. We just don't do it. :-)



Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

I have found myself in need of some devices from time to time that I 
can't seem to buy at a reasonable price. 
 
Since I was laid up for a month and more, I began doing some research 
on developing things I needed.   Before I go into a bunch of work to 
try to finalize these... I'd like to know if anyone else is interested...
 
1.  IP addressable,  10/100 ethernet based voltage / charge / 
temperature / monitoring and/or switching device.  You 
could monitor batteries, solar panels, generator, start/stop things, 
etc.  Cost:  ~$200
 
2.  IP addressable, 10/100 ethernet based thermo-electric generator, 
fueled by propane, either remotely controlled, or operating on a 
programmable basis - to operate as a backup power supply in 
conjunction with 12 or 24V battery based DC systems.   Would provide 
battery monitoring, as well.
Approximate cost:  $2500 for a 75 watt 24V system.   Could be made in 
20, 50, 100, or larger wattage sizes - cost rises considerable with 
power output.This would serve as backup for a solar/wind or even 
for AC in conjunction with lead-acid batteries.
 
3.  crash detect and reboot  system.   This would connect via 
10/100M ethernet to a network, ping a programmable IP (in fact, 
several of them) and be able to power cycle dc or ac powered 
equipment.   Programmable as to how many pings to miss, how long to 
power down, etc.Cost:   ~$200. 
 
Each of these devices would be designed to operate on very minimal 
power and tolerate temperature extremes. 
 
 
North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061

personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
-



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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

What club are you talking about Charles?

I predict you'll be asking Brian to participate in the next buy Charles. :-)

Charles Wu wrote:


Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my
naysaying wrong

However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I 
predict
the following 2 outcomes will occur:

1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / payment
for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought

2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will
realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort (effort
that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will either

(a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his day-to-day
business needs / obligations / demands

(b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate markup (to
handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to succeed,
he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs
providing various value-added services to varying levels of customers, and
the middleman will return

-Charles

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
Yes, (joke) let's assure ourselves that all things are motivated by 
increasing one individual's bank account vs. the group's membership's 
benefits. Part of the reason I'm not participating in Part 15 et.al. is 
that the organizers of any membership benefit have to do so with the 
assumption that the GOAL of the effort is member benefits, not organizer 
benefits from organizing it.


How much money have you made off WISPA John, Rich, Matt, Marlon, et.al? 
I know its a rethorical question - I know how much - none.


If we're always looking at ways we can take the membership for a dollar 
ride we're not in the right groove.


Isn't it enough that not only the organizer gets a benefit by getting 
his costs down, but that he's going to have lots of other participants 
potentially shaking his hand and thanking him for the effort? In this 
organization, I hope so.



Charles Wu wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can anyone 

(principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this.  ASAP!
 
Call me a profit-hungering leech, but if I were you, I would try to 
set up the listserv myself
 
Remember, the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars that 
Bullit made off of WISPCON  Part-15 all started from a simple Orinoco 
listserv (on a windows box too)
 
-Charles
 
P.S. better do it before that leech formerly known as Charles steals 
your idea wink


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
You should be getting a notice of the mailing list creation. Will walk 
through the list manager steps and get you the listmanger's account 
information. Will be using rfarc.org as the base address - a local 
non-profit ham radio domain that has private list features. Let's see 
how it goes.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

All I know is I talked to a VAR and was assured I could get the prices 
I requested and have the process work the way I asked about.
I'm just doing a little leg work to see what happens.  When I compare 
what I can buy now, a $550 single pack.  Because I can't even afford 
25 pack.  To the 100 pack prices of something like $260.
It's a no brainer Charles.  The $290 saving per radios covers any 
admin fees in savings by far.  If you want Canopy radios, hit me off 
list.  The only way I currently plan of profiting from this is the 
$290 savings on each radio.  I just want 900 gear I can afford.


Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my
naysaying wrong

However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I 
predict

the following 2 outcomes will occur:

1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / 
payment

for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought

2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will
realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort 
(effort
that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will 
either


(a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his 
day-to-day

business needs / obligations / demands

(b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate 
markup (to
handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to 
succeed,

he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs
providing various value-added services to varying levels of 
customers, and

the middleman will return

-Charles

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

we're using 'mailman'  listserv by the way.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

All I know is I talked to a VAR and was assured I could get the prices 
I requested and have the process work the way I asked about.
I'm just doing a little leg work to see what happens.  When I compare 
what I can buy now, a $550 single pack.  Because I can't even afford 
25 pack.  To the 100 pack prices of something like $260.
It's a no brainer Charles.  The $290 saving per radios covers any 
admin fees in savings by far.  If you want Canopy radios, hit me off 
list.  The only way I currently plan of profiting from this is the 
$290 savings on each radio.  I just want 900 gear I can afford.


Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my
naysaying wrong

However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I 
predict

the following 2 outcomes will occur:

1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / 
payment

for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought

2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will
realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort 
(effort
that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will 
either


(a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his 
day-to-day

business needs / obligations / demands

(b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate 
markup (to
handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to 
succeed,

he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs
providing various value-added services to varying levels of 
customers, and

the middleman will return

-Charles

---
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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



 





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

Brian,
I'm going to take this off this list for now. I'll send you a note 
directly. The list is setup.

-Alex

A. Huppenthal wrote:


Brian,

I'll see if can do this shortly.

-Alex

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can anyone 
(principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this.  
ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
  



It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care 
less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct 
from the

manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times 
by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a 
mistake


The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past 
few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP 
listserv /

forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been
implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their 
inventory

liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of 
a PITA

the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

 



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Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for 
$500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were 
$250. ha!


I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to 
get the listserver doing precisely what it should.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

That would be great.  People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as 
well as 900.  I just want 900 for now.  If we get a place to talk 
about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product.


A. Huppenthal wrote:


Brian,

I'll see if can do this shortly.

-Alex

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can 
anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about 
this.  ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
  




It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care 
less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct 
from the

manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times 
by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a 
mistake


The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past 
few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP 
listserv /

forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been
implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their 
inventory

liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of 
a PITA

the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

 



--
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Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17







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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal


The list server is running, Brian is working on the final setup / config.
Sorry, its I thought I could do it in just an hour, but I've never set 
this software up before so it took 2 hours.


I'm guessing the list will be up and running.

Any suggestions on how we can confirm that the person attempting to 
signup for the group buy listserv is actually a principle member?


I don't think we want a list of all the members distributed. I was 
thinking a simple script might allow an authorized person to query *if* 
a certain email address is a principle member or not.. hmmm... a puzzle..


I guess the person asking for the list membership could do so on the 
principle member list @ wispa.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Your a good man.

A. Huppenthal wrote:

I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for 
$500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were 
$250. ha!


I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to 
get the listserver doing precisely what it should.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

That would be great.  People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as 
well as 900.  I just want 900 for now.  If we get a place to talk 
about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product.


A. Huppenthal wrote:


Brian,

I'll see if can do this shortly.

-Alex

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can 
anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk 
about this.  ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
  






It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could 
care less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct 
from the

manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many 
times by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a 
mistake


The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past 
few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP 
listserv /

forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it 
been

implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their 
inventory

liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much 
of a PITA

the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become 
resellers/distributors


-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17











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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal
hear hear. I totally agree with you. I have very little experience with 
Insurance, but mine is a million dollar policy we use for towers and 
other reasons. Its about $100 a month. I'm sure there's a specialized 
insurance company that likely does this. Anyone have a contact at 
American Towers? Perhaps they can point us to an 'industry' insurance 
company or 3.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Would he give WISPA a good rate?  Anyone interested could get quotes 
and maybe he could cut us a break?  I want this trade association to 
get some members services so people have a reason to join.  With added 
services comes members and money.  With members and money comes pull 
at the FCC level.  Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule 
the world.  *Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal 
Members.


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa.  Gary Troutman has been 
GREAT.  And he's really done a lot of research into my industry.  
He's got me on some very cool insurance programs.  Good reasonable 
stuff.


His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE



From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:


Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain 
policies even where risk of loss is relatively minor.  E+O is an 
example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the 
bare minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether 
the client does $10,000 per year or $250,000.


Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties 
part to try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000 
overall program.

This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else.  You really do get what you pay for.  
These policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a 
claim paid would be the exception rather than the rule.  Plus they 
are likely placed with relatively [financially] weak carriers.


My value to your clients would be in the area of making their 
insurance budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage 
with stronger carriers.  My guess is that clients that are 
generating revenue of

$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.

Paul


    Original Message 
   Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
   Date:   Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
   From:   Dylan Oliver

   I'm interested in group insurance.  Been talking to United (through
   wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what 
we've been

   offered:

   $2,128 general liability  property +
   $700 umbrella +
   $250 program administration charges +
   $1,250 professional EO (optional) +
   $250 EO administration charges (optional) +
   $250 Healthy  Safety Manual (maybe optional).

   The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium 
of $585.


   And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat 
a quarter

   of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?

   Best,
   --
   Dylan Oliver
   Primaverity, LLC

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal




I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'.
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm
all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked
by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get
what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. 

Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of
our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part
of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my
business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the
*first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as
well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull
together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better
pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others
through a louder voice). 


I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)

Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy
500 and get them at $444 instead.

Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.




  

  432679 
  900 Mhz Access Point 
  
  9000AP 
  $1,895


  427612 
  900 Mhz Access Point
AES 
  9001AP
  $2,395


  498606 
  900 Mhz Access Point
Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9000APC 
  $1,855 


  487642 
  900 Mhz Access Point
AES Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9001APC 
  $2,355 


  432631 
  Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-50 
  $26,250 


  452650 
  Bulk Pack 100 900
MHz Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-100 
  $47,500 


  459676 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules  
  BP9000SM-500  
  $222,500 


  460660 
  Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-50 
  $24,250 


  467696
  Bulk Pack 100 900
MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized
  BP9000SMC-100
  $43,500


  483635 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-500 
  $202,500 


  433674 
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module
  
  9000SM 
  $725 


  430697 
  900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES
  9001SM 
  $975 


  499667
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External
antenna) 
  9000SMC 
  $685


  472614
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized
(External antenna)
  9001SMC
  $935


  435698
  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  AN900
  
  $100


  446693
  Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  BPAN900-50
  
  $4,500


  413627
  Bulk Pack 100: 900
Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  BPAN900-100
  $8,000


  483655
  900MHz Demo Kit -
Connectorized
  TK10010
  $3,000


  495685
  
  900MHz Access Point
Cluster Kit - Connectorized 
  TK10028
  $30,000 

  


Peter R. wrote:
Brian
Rohrbacher wrote:
  
  
  Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone
interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want
this trade association to get some members services so people have a
reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With
members and money comes "pull" at the FCC level. Then we get good
stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world. *Right Brain* Lets do
what we can to get more Principal Members.


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

  
  
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being
a volume club.
  
  
Regards,
  
  
Peter
  
4isps.com
  




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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal




Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was
on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other
high-treed areas.

Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing
around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP
either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always
favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion.

Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber
modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit
at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller
operator.



  

  5750SM
  5.7 GHz
Advantage Subscriber Module
  $895.00
  $742.85


  5751SM
  5.7 GHz
Advantage Subscriber Module with AES
  $1,145.00
  $950.35


  BP5750SM-25
  Bundle Pack
25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules
  $14,875.00
  $12,941.25


  BP5750SM-100
  Bundle Pack
100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules
  $45,000.00
  $39,150.00


  BP5750SM-500
  Bundle Pack
500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules
  $187,500.00
  $163,125.00


  5700SM
  5.7 GHz
Subscriber Module
  $595.00
  $493.85


  5700SMRF
  5.7 GHz
Subscriber Module with Reflector
  $745.00
  $618.35


  5701SM
  5.7 GHz
Subscriber Module with AES
  $845.00
  $701.35


  BP5700SM-25
  Bundle Pack
25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
  $8,750.00
  $7,612.50


  BP5700SM-100
  Bundle Pack
100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
  $30,000.00
  $26,100.00


  BP5700SM-500
  Bundle Pack
500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
  $125,000.00
  $108,750.00

  





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal
Well, I tend to agree. Moto builds cable modems, and other competitive 
products. We aren't going to change Moto's pricing policy, product 
strategy, or anything else - well,  unless we all work together.


I see 500 packs broken all the time - so that's the idea - a bunch of us 
put in 1/20th of the price of 500 units, buying 25 units say.. @ 1/2 the 
retail price. But 500 isn't needed here. There's a huge break at Q 100. 
So 10 WISPs could by 10 units each for a total of $2,600 each.. Instead 
of buying 5 units at list.


I understand what you are saying Marlon. Moto doesn't demonstrate much 
interest in WISP strategic futures. They cater to their market - large 
consumers of their products.  The answer is: Use whatever product makes 
you successful. I don't accept the idea that boycotting Moto purchases 
influences our FCC successes. Getting more members and continuing 
improved benefits grows the organization, and that action will influence 
the FCC.


I'm not going to get into Moto vs. Microtik or whatever. Its not in my 
interest to argue for or against any vendor. For me, Moto kicked 
everyone's ass in terms of total cost of service delivery. Others likely 
have other stories, I respect that. That's the nice thing about owning 
your own business, you don't *have* to swallow anyone else's opinion. My 
competitors in the valley here are moving to Moto - about 2 years late, 
but do I care? no.. We've moved on to the next revolution.





Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Now if only we could get Moto to stop working so hard against us at 
the FCC and to basically use the average wisp to support the biggest 
fo the big.  After all, who's gonna need 500 packs of anything until 
you're pretty dang good sized?  And how are you supposed to do that 
when your money is going to subsidise your largest competitors?
 
I can certainly see a few point spread for volumes.  But 30 to 50%?  
Not good for the industry.
 
Marlon

(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 

 


- Original Message -
*From:* A. Huppenthal mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General
List mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did
was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other
high-treed areas.

Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month
screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a
successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC
rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless
you have a spare billion.

Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber
modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per
unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the
smaller operator.


5750SM  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 
*$742.85*
5751SM  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES$1,145.00
*$950.35*
BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $14,875.00  *$12,941.25*
BP5750SM-100Bundle Pack 100  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $45,000.00  *$39,150.00*
BP5750SM-500Bundle Pack 500  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $187,500.00 *$163,125.00*
5700SM  5.7 GHz Subscriber Module   $595.00 *$493.85*
5700SMRF5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector$745.00
*$618.35*
5701SM  5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES  $845.00 
*$701.35*
BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$8,750.00   *$7,612.50*
BP5700SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$30,000.00  *$26,100.00*
BP5700SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$125,000.00 *$108,750.00*



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Re: [WISPA] buying club meeting

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal
Good ideas. Partnering with a successful existing ISPCON would be 
great.  I'm not close to Baltimore, so it would be my first choice. :-) 
I didn't know there was a WISP buying club. That would be a wonderful 
thing.  Do you mean like Price Club or somesuch? Wow, now if they'd 
carry the end-user products and end-user's would be able to 
self-install... that would change the business numbers.


I did 'Telcom Means Business' for local small business people. Sucked 
the hell out of my time. Easily a few hundred hours of work. If the 
ISPCON folks would like a true partnership - i.e., they aren't making 
money off WISPA members, but rather increasing attendance and therefore 
value to vendors, well, that's a great idea. If the Conference is really 
geared to bring business to vendors, products to buyers, and help with 
the education process great. What pisses me off is that most shows 
became insanely profitable for the organizers, so vendors and attendees 
got gouged - and no one is going any longer.  Ah, I love that the market 
rules. well, (except it doesn't for cable and telco monopolies.. :-)


Good ideas. I enjoy these discussions. I feel uncomfortable sometimes 
having them on an open public list though, since there are so many 
lizards on the 'net anymore. :-P




Peter R. wrote:

If you want a buying club, could I suggest that you organize with one 
of the existing ones?

Every time another one is set up in this industry, it dilutes the power.
It's a shame the groups can't all work together more, but that is what 
is. (I have tried to collaborate that effort and I have lost faith and 
interest - too much self-interest is built-in to each group; ego; and 
power hungry executives -- Just the things that help the Tele-Barons 
and MSOs keep us down.


To speak to meeting:
It is a 3 person job. (I just did one solo).
One handles the site and logistics.
One manages vendors and speakers.
One acquires attendees.
The one with vendors is the poor slob with the biggest headache!

If you want to do a combo meeting - like with ISPCON in Baltimore - 
you save on some logistics and get the benefit of a concentrated 
effort and marketing. (CISPA and WCA did this in Santa Clara).


Thoughts?

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.
4isps.com
813.963.5884



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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal

'people' is me.
note: posting here showed $270 quantity one Moto SM w/power supply  on 
ebay for example.


Its just a thought. I've bought dozens and dozens of Moto SM radios near 
$260 each over the past 12 months all at 5s and 10s quantity. So it can 
be done, just wished it would be a bit easier.



Blair Davis wrote:

I just wish people would quit quoting the Q100 or Q500 price to 
compare CPE equipment costs.


Quote the Q1 cost.  We all know that one can do better in larger 
quantity.  But most of us don't buy in Q100 or Q500.


Most of us do good to buy Q5 or Q10.

The high CPE cost is what keeps me from even considering Moto and such

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Now if only we could get Moto to stop working so hard against us at 
the FCC and to basically use the average wisp to support the biggest 
fo the big.  After all, who's gonna need 500 packs of anything until 
you're pretty dang good sized?  And how are you supposed to do that 
when your money is going to subsidise your largest competitors?
 
I can certainly see a few point spread for volumes.  But 30 to 50%?  
Not good for the industry.
 
Marlon

(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 

 


- Original Message -
*From:* A. Huppenthal mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General
List mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I
did was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or
other high-treed areas.

Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month
screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a
successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC
rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless
you have a spare billion.

Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz
Subscriber modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to
$261.00 per unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg
up on the smaller operator.


5750SM  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 
*$742.85*
5751SM  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES$1,145.00
*$950.35*
BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $14,875.00  *$12,941.25*
BP5750SM-100Bundle Pack 100  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $45,000.00  *$39,150.00*
BP5750SM-500Bundle Pack 500  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $187,500.00 *$163,125.00*
5700SM  5.7 GHz Subscriber Module   $595.00 *$493.85*
5700SMRF5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector$745.00
*$618.35*
5701SM  5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES  $845.00 
*$701.35*
BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$8,750.00   *$7,612.50*
BP5700SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$30,000.00  *$26,100.00*
BP5700SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$125,000.00 *$108,750.00*



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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005
 




--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC
 



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Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal




I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want
to research on behalf of the list. 

google:
motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack.

I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. 

I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

  
  

  
432631 
Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
BP9000SM-50

$26,250
  

  
  
  
Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k
  
Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid
at all costs.
  
The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.
HOLY CRAP!
  
Unless I am reading something wrong...
  
  http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f
  
  
  
A. Huppenthal wrote:
  


I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'.
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm
all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked
by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get
what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. 

Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of
our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part
of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my
business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the
*first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as
well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull
together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better
pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others
through a louder voice). 


I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)

Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy
500 and get them at $444 instead.

Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.




  

  432679 
  900 Mhz Access
Point  
  9000AP 
  $1,895


  427612 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
AES 
  9001AP
  $2,395


  498606 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9000APC 
  $1,855 


  487642 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
AES Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9001APC 
  $2,355 


  432631 
  Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-50
  
  $26,250 


  452650 
  Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-100
  
  $47,500 


  459676 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules  
  BP9000SM-500  
  $222,500 


  460660 
  Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-50 
  $24,250 


  467696
  Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized
  BP9000SMC-100
  $43,500


  483635 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-500 
  $202,500 


  433674 
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module
  
  9000SM 
  $725 


  430697 
  900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES
  9001SM 
  $975 


  499667
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External
antenna) 
  9000SMC 
  $685


  472614
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized
(External antenna)
  9001SMC
  $935


  435698
  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  AN900
  
  $100


  446693
  Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  BPAN900-50
  
  $4,500


  413627
  Bulk Pack 100:
900
Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  BPAN900-100
  $8,000


  483655
  900MHz Demo Kit -
Connectorized
  TK10010
  $3,000


  495685
  
  900MHz Access
Point
Cluster Kit - Connectorized 
  TK10028
  $30,000 

  


Peter R. wrote:
Brian
Rohrbacher wrote: 
  
  Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone
interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want
this trade association to get some members services so people have a
reason to join. With added services comes members and money

Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal




check if you are comparing apples to apples. 900 Mhz units are much
more expensive. 

Have fun, whatever you decide.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

  
  

  
432631 
Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
BP9000SM-50

$26,250
  

  
  
  
Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k
  
Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid
at all costs.
  
The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.
HOLY CRAP!
  
Unless I am reading something wrong...
  
  http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f
  
  
  
A. Huppenthal wrote:
  


I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'.
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm
all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked
by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get
what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. 

Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of
our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part
of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my
business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the
*first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as
well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull
together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better
pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others
through a louder voice). 


I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)

Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy
500 and get them at $444 instead.

Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.




  

  432679 
  900 Mhz Access
Point  
  9000AP 
  $1,895


  427612 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
AES 
  9001AP
  $2,395


  498606 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9000APC 
  $1,855 


  487642 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
AES Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9001APC 
  $2,355 


  432631 
  Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-50
  
  $26,250 


  452650 
  Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-100
  
  $47,500 


  459676 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules  
  BP9000SM-500  
  $222,500 


  460660 
  Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-50 
  $24,250 


  467696
  Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized
  BP9000SMC-100
  $43,500


  483635 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-500 
  $202,500 


  433674 
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module
  
  9000SM 
  $725 


  430697 
  900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES
  9001SM 
  $975 


  499667
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External
antenna) 
  9000SMC 
  $685


  472614
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized
(External antenna)
  9001SMC
  $935


  435698
  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  AN900
  
  $100


  446693
  Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  BPAN900-50
  
  $4,500


  413627
  Bulk Pack 100:
900
Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  BPAN900-100
  $8,000


  483655
  900MHz Demo Kit -
Connectorized
  TK10010
  $3,000


  495685
  
  900MHz Access
Point
Cluster Kit - Connectorized 
  TK10028
  $30,000 

  


Peter R. wrote:
Brian
Rohrbacher wrote: 
  
  Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone
interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want
this trade association to get some members services so people have a
reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With
members and money comes "pull" at the FCC level. Then we get good
stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world. *Right Brain* Lets do
what we can t

Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal
we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. 
never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. 
some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging 
even for 900 mhz.


$295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 
900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the 
learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are 
much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same 
gain, but that's obvious.


Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone 
alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports 
vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported 
by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at 
least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a 
time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, 
no crap-outs...


Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices 
is 295 each for connectorized.  Cheaper then some roll your own.


A. Huppenthal wrote:

I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I 
want to research on behalf of the list.


google:
motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack.

I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it.

I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

432631  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  	BP9000SM-50  
$26,250 




Double Radius has 25 pack for  : $8,500.00  double to 50 pack and it 17k

Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can 
avoid at all costs.


The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.  
HOLY CRAP!


Unless I am reading something wrong...

http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f



A. Huppenthal wrote:

I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. 
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - 
I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your 
ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power 
and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s  for 1/2 the price.


Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than 
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity 
of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is 
a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained 
in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs 
at the *first* WISPA meeting.  In fact, I'd likely talk about it at 
ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really 
needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a 
WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules 
(FCC and others through a louder voice).



I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and 
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)


Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. 
Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead.


Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.



432679  900 Mhz Access Point9000AP  $1,895
427612  900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP  $2,395
498606  	900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna)  
9000APC  	$1,855 
487642  	900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9001APC  	$2,355 
432631  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  	BP9000SM-50  
$26,250 
452650  	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  
BP9000SM-100  	$47,500 
459676  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules
BP9000SM-500   	$222,500 
460660  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-50  	$24,250 
467696 	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized 
BP9000SMC-100 	$43,500
483635  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-500  	$202,500 
433674  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module  	9000SM  	$725 
430697  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 	9001SM  	$975 
499667 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9000SMC  	$685
472614 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External 
antenna) 	9001SMC 	$935

435698  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna 

AN900

$100
446693  Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna   

BPAN900-50

$4,500
413627 	Bulk Pack 100: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna 
BPAN900-100 	$8,000

483655  900MHz Demo Kit - Connectorized TK10010 $3,000
495685  	900MHz Access Point Cluster Kit - Connectorized 	TK10028 
$30,000 



Peter R. wrote:


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Would he give WISPA a good rate?  Anyone interested could get 
quotes and maybe he could cut us a break?  I want this trade 
association to get some members services so people

Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal

great prices!

G.Villarini wrote:


$100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying?  I buy 11 db yagis for
around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. 
never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. 
some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging 
even for 900 mhz.


$295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 
900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the 
learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are 
much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same 
gain, but that's obvious.


Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone 
alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports 
vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported 
by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at 
least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a 
time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, 
no crap-outs...


Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 

I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices 
is 295 each for connectorized.  Cheaper then some roll your own.


A. Huppenthal wrote:

   

I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I 
want to research on behalf of the list.


google:
motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack.

I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it.

I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 


432631  Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50
   



 

$26,250 




Double Radius has 25 pack for  : $8,500.00  double to 50 pack and it 17k

Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can 
avoid at all costs.


The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.  
HOLY CRAP!


Unless I am reading something wrong...

http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f



A. Huppenthal wrote:

   

I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. 
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - 
I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your 
ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power 
and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s  for 1/2 the price.


Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than 
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity 
of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is 
a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained 
in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs 
at the *first* WISPA meeting.  In fact, I'd likely talk about it at 
ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really 
needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a 
WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules 
(FCC and others through a louder voice).



I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and 
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)


Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. 
Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead.


Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.



432679  900 Mhz Access Point9000AP  $1,895
427612  900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP  $2,395
498606  	900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna)  
9000APC  	$1,855 
487642  	900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9001APC  	$2,355 
432631  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  	BP9000SM-50
 



 

$26,250 
452650  	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  
BP9000SM-100  	$47,500 
459676  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules
BP9000SM-500   	$222,500 
460660  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-50  	$24,250 
467696 	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized 
BP9000SMC-100 	$43,500
483635  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-500  	$202,500 
433674  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module  	9000SM  	$725 
430697  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 	9001SM  	$975 
499667 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9000SMC  	$685
472614 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External 
antenna) 	9001SMC 	$935

435698  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna 

AN900

Re: [WISPA] P2P Worm Monitoring/Alerting/Control

2005-12-10 Thread A. Huppenthal
We use bandwidth shaping on *nix. works fine. currently the profile for 
one site manages 500+ IP based up and downstream.  Its one of our few 
home-brew items. Of course, its all open source, so I don't need to 
worry about support on this particular item.



John Thomas wrote:


Mark, go over to http://www.mikrotik.com/download.html#dude

See if it does some/all of what you need.
As for limiting/shaping, your 3640 may do what you need.

John



Mark Nash wrote:

I'm at the point on my network now that I really need to control 
unnecessary bandwidth usage.  The biggest problem is the p2p users 
with their excessive upload, and worms come in a close second.
 
My network is comprised of a Cisco 3640, Cisco C4840G L3 switch for 
segmenting, and Dell 3324 managed switches.  I have run ntop in the 
past but I believe it only reports interactively through the web 
interface.  I wouldn't consider myself too far off from obtaining an 
SNMP station/software like SNMPc.
 
I'm needing to implement a solution that will monitor, alert on, and 
control this type of traffic.  Either not pass it or rate-limit it.  
I'm interested in solutions that have been implemented, home-grown, 
tested, failed, etc.
 
Thanks in advance...
 
Mark Nash

Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
325 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax







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Re: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell

2005-12-09 Thread A. Huppenthal
Go get some Canopy client radios for $260 each, complete  - check the 
performance, ease to install and setup. We did homebrew for quite a 
while and it has its downside as we're seeing. Just my opinion. You get 
a nice spectrum analyzer built-in, 2 minute setup, 2 minute test once 
its placed. Audible signal strength - no pc needed on the ladder. There 
are lots of solutions. 5.2 / 5.7 ghz Moto stuff runs thousands of 
subscribers. I'm not affliated with Moto/Canopy and don't ask me to sell 
you anything.


Best wishes.

Mark Nash wrote:

Thanks Rick.. I've heard alot about these WRAP boards.  Is this 
something we would put together ourselves or are there products 
available.  What are the costs like?  I guess I'd really be interested 
in what I should be doing for CPE going on, assuming we can still get 
the Turbocell licenses (see post from Blair Davis re: Winncomm 
continuing to be able to sell Turbocell licenses).


Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
325 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.uwol.net
- Original Message - From: Rick Harnish 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell



Mark,

Contact me offlist as we are successfully deploying WRAP boards with 
Compact
Flash loaded with Turbocell.  My pains are compounded about 4 times 
as I had

about 24 Turbocell POPs when this all started.

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482 Office
260-307-4000 Cell
260-918-4340 VoIP
www.oibw.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell

Hello to the list...

My name is Mark Nash and I own  operate a little WISP of about 300
customers in Oregon.

For CPE, I started out using Breezecom 2.4GHz FH radios then switched to
Karlnet RSU's loaded w/Turbocell.  Then the YDI/Terabeam/Proxim 
series of
mergers  acquisitions happened and I've got products from all 
companies but


they are all Turbocell CPE.

We have 6 WiPops surrounding our customer base (rural southern 
Willamette

Valley).  We're using Trango backhauls...I started out using them simply
because of their low cost and advertised bandwidth.  I still have two 
in use


from when the company was called Sunstream (I think it was 2002).  I 
remain

happy about that decision.

We started out with a bridged network then ARP changed my tune and we 
went

to a routed design.

OK, so...there it is.  For those of you who know what's going on with
Turbocell from the new Proxim, you probably know that I'm not happy 
as they
have set out to discontinue the Turbocell client software.  So I will 
soon
have to purchase new AP's and shift some customers around because I 
won't be


able to purchase Turbocell-based devices.  That's the word from Proxim.
So...anyone heard any differently?  I've also asked Proxim if we can
'downgrade' our Turbocell products to 802.11b and they are saying 'no'.

It's a you-know-what sandwich from which I'd rather not take a bite.

Does anyone feel my pain?  Any way around these issues aside from 
replacing

CPE?

Regards,

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
325 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax



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Re: [WISPA] canopy

2005-11-30 Thread A. Huppenthal

unless you mount it horizontally. :-)

G.Villarini wrote:


Nop, just vertical

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:22 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] canopy

is canopy horizontal and vertical like trango?  Software switchable?
 



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Re: [WISPA] Trouble in Hyperlink land?

2005-11-24 Thread A. Huppenthal
Likewise, we've never been mis-shipped, and have been able to track 
shipments for critical delivery. Our downside experience was that they 
sometimes were somewhat slow in getting product out and you have to, as 
usual, check shipping costs. Good product, decent prices, predictable 
delivery - our experience. We've bought their products since the late 
90's - great stick antennas.


Travis Johnson wrote:

I have been purchasing from Hyperlink for over 6 years. At one time, 
we were buying $50,000 per year in equipment from them. I have never 
had a problem, and in fact just placed an order with them today.


Travis
Microserv

Reliable Internet, LLC wrote:

Great feedback John.  I always wonder about these other people (posts 
on dsl reports), but I know you're honest and I believe you.  I have 
ordered from them 3 or 4 times and all went well, but I also never 
got that warm fuzzy felling from them.  I will stay away forever now.


Brian

John Scrivner wrote:

We ordered some antennas that did not work out for us from 
Hyperlink. We asked if we could pay a restocking fee and return 
them. They were very evasive, just as outlined in the DSL Reports 
remarks. They eventually said they would allow a return but only for 
credit for future purchases. They also said after asking to do the 
return at the same time as a new order to use the credit that we 
were now blacklisted by them which means we can never buy from them 
again. This was our first and only experience with Hypelrink. I 
believe this makes them the worst vendor I have ever seen in my 
life. (Except for the RBOCs of course!) Buyer beware.

Scriv


Jory Privett wrote:

I ordered some parts from them last week.  The arrived on time and 
just what I ordered.


Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - From: Reliable Internet, LLC 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization 
wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:14 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Trouble in Hyperlink land?


http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14859535

FYI
Anyone else getting screwed around by them?  If their being stupid 
maybe

they need to be avoided.

Brian
 



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[WISPA] Geekcorps.org

2005-11-16 Thread A. Huppenthal
Anyone have some experience with http://www.geekcorps.org ?

A couple of us are considering getting involved. 

 -Alex


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Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings

2005-11-15 Thread A. Huppenthal

That's the most expensive CPE, isn't it?  probably why they work so well.
I know the failure rate of Moto stuff has been 1 in a 100 or so.. 
Perhaps 1 in 50 in you count $10 power supplies.


Paul Hendry wrote:


Wow, you all replace a lot of kit. What are the main reasons for the CPE's
dying? Isn't there something you can do to improve the install of the units
to help prevent these failures?

We have only been offering services for a year but so far haven't had to
replace a single CPE. We build the CPE's in house using WRAP's, WAR's and
StarOS and because of this we would be able to use most of the parts again
and therefore not cost to much to swap out a CPE.

Cheers,

P.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: 15 November 2005 06:29
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings

i like that idea. have the contract read that replacement of the 
equipment for whatever reason incurs a minimum trip charge of $75 or buy 
insurance @ $4 a month.


Peter R. wrote:

 


The DISH network actually charges for replacement.
I had a DVR go bad and it cost me $50 for replacement.
Ain't much, but it ain't free.

What about charging a maintenance fee?
It could be a surcharge to your service like the RBOCs add DSL fees 
and inside wire maintenance.


Has anyone looked into getting asset insurance?

Thank you.

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect  Communicate
813.963.5884
http://4isps.com

ISP Expo in Tampa, Dec. 9  10
   




 



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Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings

2005-11-14 Thread A. Huppenthal
I'm curious about this too.. Are you using off-the-shelf stuff? Can you 
sell an insurance policy to customers to offset the replacement costs?


JohnnyO wrote:


George - that may work in your neck of the woods and I have been doing
the same since day 1. This past year - we replaced over $8,000 worth of
CPEs - that is almost a full months revenue for us Mind you - we
dealt with hurricanes and severe lightning - but - - - we can no longer
as a company sustain those types of hits That is 8k in equipment
costs - not the additional 5k worth of labor for the trips to the CPE.

I am In an area that will constantly have severe lightning issues,
hurricanes, wicked thunderstorms and high winds.

How many CPEs did you replace in the last 12 months ? I have tracked and
count 43 here.

JohnnyO

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:03 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings


JohnnyO wrote:
 


We're coming into our 3rd year of operation soon. I am curious how
others are doing combat against the replacement / repair / service
   

call 
 


costs associated with having to replace CPE end equipment.

I was thinking about offering a service plan like DirecTV / Cellular
Companies etc, but not sure how to introduce or impiliment this.

Help and suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,

JohnnyO

   



I am eating it.
I bet if I told every customer who's radio died that they had to pay for

a new one, we'd have less subs.

I own all the radios and accept the responsibility.

another way I look at it, it's cheaper to give an existing sub a 100.00 
radio and get 500 for the next 12 months than it is to go without 
revenue and have to pay for advertising to get new subs to replace the 
one that I just lost.


But, it's the way I do this in this market.

George
 



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Re: [WISPA] Insurance / Service Plan Offerings

2005-11-14 Thread A. Huppenthal
i like that idea. have the contract read that replacement of the 
equipment for whatever reason incurs a minimum trip charge of $75 or buy 
insurance @ $4 a month.


Peter R. wrote:


The DISH network actually charges for replacement.
I had a DVR go bad and it cost me $50 for replacement.
Ain't much, but it ain't free.

What about charging a maintenance fee?
It could be a surcharge to your service like the RBOCs add DSL fees 
and inside wire maintenance.


Has anyone looked into getting asset insurance?

Thank you.

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect  Communicate
813.963.5884
http://4isps.com

ISP Expo in Tampa, Dec. 9  10



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Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread A. Huppenthal
Its true, Internet is an option.There are lots of people in the valley 
here that never want it.
As to billing, paying per bit won't happen except for the Cellular 
companys who have per minute everything in place as it is.
You'd think that since telephone service was flat rate some time ago, 
you couldn't reverse the trend, but ah ha! If you
have something like cellular for Internet you can. The demand needs to 
overcome the view that you are being screwed
if you pay per bit. If its obvious you are being screwed something needs 
to be done.. Suspending that belief that's the result of compelling 
applications and great marketing and some peer pressure. Do you think 8 
to 18 year olds really give a damn if Dad is paying per bit or flat 
rate.. no way. IM just has to be there, all the time, and so does 
picture and video transfer.. ;-)


The core sales center for cellular isn't you any longer, its 8 to 18 
year olds. Its a bit different for fixed wireless.



Tom DeReggi wrote:


Without electricity, you are blind or get heat stroke.
Without gas (propaine /natural), you freeze to death.
Without water, you dehydrate or get desease (no bathing).
All above things considered necessities, up there with food.
People could die without them.

TV, Phone, Internet on the other hand are luxeries, things that people 
rely on, but would survive if they did without.  I've never seen 
someone die from TV/Phone/Internet with drawal, although you never 
know it could happen. There is however financial benefits of having 
those luxeries, and there are general safety benefits of having the 
above.


The way to tell the difference is to see how much someone will pay for 
something. Leave someone in the desert heat for a week, and then see 
how much they'll pay you for the last bottle of water.  If its a 
matter of life or death they'd pay thousands.  When someones 
electricity goes out in the winter, they won't even flinch at going to 
a hotel for a night or two at $150 a night.


But then tell a consumer you have a $300 setup fee for their 
residential Broadband wireless service and see how quick they hang up 
the phone on you! If a consumer doesn't put a high value on a service, 
then it is NOT a necessity.  NObody has ever refused to pay $150 a 
month for an electric bill, why are they so resistent to pay $50 a 
month for a residential Internet service?  Because it is NOT a 
necessity.  There is a big difference, it may however become a 
COMMODITY. Something that someone expects to have cheap and widely 
available. But a commodity is in no way a necessity.


So I in know believe INternet/phone/and TV should be in the same 
catagory as necessities like utilities.. But I do believe that the 
world increases its standards as life and technology progresses. Why 
settle for the minimum? People WILL demand things basic communication 
rights, like TV/Phone/Internet.  Not because its a necessity, but 
becaues its a luxury that no one should be without based on the high 
standard of living that the US life has made possible. A simple 
question is asked, why shouldn't every person in America have complete 
communications? What barrier could possibly justify not being able to 
accomplish it?  Withholding something that is easilly deliverable is 
just plain evil.  The technology is here today to offer universal 
broadband and communications, so people will not except not having it.


So yes Charles I agree, in 5-10 years, people will expect to have it 
as a commodity, wether it is a necessity such as heat,water,electric, 
is irrelevant.


My answer is the battle to to prove to the world it is NOT a 
commodity. It is a service that has value and a service worth paying 
for.  I still remember when I paid $500 a month for my ISDN for a two 
man office.  I believe broadband is worth as much if not more than a 
phone or a television service.  Even if someone is poor or on welfare, 
they are likely to have a phone, cell phone, or TV, and they are 
finding a way to justify paying for it, even though it costs 
substantially more than Broadband for residential consumers. Why 
should broadband be less valuable?  Because there was competition at 
one time, that drove the price down. Something there wasn't much of in 
local phone or Cable TV services.


So my view is if governement want to fight for universal broadband for 
the rich/poor, urban/ rural, no problem, just don't devalue the 
service that has value.


I remember when my wife was on bed rest and she had to wear a monitor. 
There was no problem for the world to justify (insurance approved) why 
a remote monitoring system, was allowed to charge several hundred 
dollars a day, for the monitor service.  How would that person be able 
to do the monitoring without a phone or an internet connection?  
Wouldn't you argue that the connection was a significant partner in 
delivering the solution? In ten years I can see every elderly person 
wearing a broadband enabled monitor of some sort. The 

Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread A. Huppenthal

let me know where you get them for $25

John Thomas wrote:

DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and 
drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about 
$25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

John, I have considered it.  My only concern was that it might 
increase the final cost.  I will take another look at it.


Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched 
circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE?


The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 
network switch or such to connect it's communication port.




John Thomas wrote:

Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since 
that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted 
away from the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that 
will do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand 
for a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have also 
decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic 
synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing 
and considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648











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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread A. Huppenthal

That's a good price. I paid nearly $50 each.


John Thomas wrote:

Actually, Online Micro has the DWL-P200 for $30 and it can do 5 or 12 
volts out the back.


John

A. Huppenthal wrote:


let me know where you get them for $25

John Thomas wrote:

DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and 
drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about 
$25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

John, I have considered it.  My only concern was that it might 
increase the final cost.  I will take another look at it.


Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched 
circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE?


The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 
network switch or such to connect it's communication port.




John Thomas wrote:

Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since 
that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be 
mounted away from the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that 
will do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand 
for a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have 
also decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic 
synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for 
testing and considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648















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[WISPA] WISP In Bridgewater Massachusetts ?

2005-11-03 Thread A. Huppenthal
I have a potential customer there that wants a solution. Any WISP in the 
area? Contact me off-list. We don't provide service

in that area.

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Re: [WISPA] Cancelling Accounts

2005-10-30 Thread A. Huppenthal
Interestingly email is a real deterrent to changing ISPs. Be sure to 
have the best Email possible - great webmail, fast performance, SSL/TLS, 
all the basics - forwarding, vacation agents, distribution lists, all 
that.. It's a value added feature for a good ISP. When they leave charge 
them $5 a month to maintain their account, and keep them as a customer. 
Income is income. See if they need a website. Hang on to your customers, 
and avoid the desire to flip them off because they are changing ships. 
After the cheaper faster wears off, your local support and friendliness 
will be long remembered. Make your customers your allies in everything. 
Remind them of the 1 month free for referrals if they so choose in the 
future - make sure they know you appreciate their business and wish them 
luck and offer to take them back if they have any trouble whatsoever, 
and you'll waive their startup fee if they come back. Plant a seed of 
friendliness and a reward for returning. When they are sick of their new 
provider's off-shore tech support, they'll come home to their friendly 
neighborhood shop, and be welcomed with open arms.


just my thoughts. others have had some success letting their customers 
know if they leave they'll never be able to come back.


JohnnyO wrote:

To keep up goodwill - you may want to setup a forward to their new 
email address and allow them a few weeks to make the change over - Be 
the better man ? It will come back to you at a later date if you make 
them feel comfortable leaving you. We've had people leave and come 
back We've also just recently fired a few customers as well.
 
JohnnyO


-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed
*Sent:* Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:45 PM
*To:* wireless@wispa.org
*Subject:* [WISPA] Cancelling Accounts

In business for almost exactly a year and lost the first 2
customers today.  One is a friend that has moved out of our area. 
I know how I will nandle his account.  The other is a to a

competitor.  How do you handle the email account?  Do I just
disable the account login, remove it from the server, or something
else?
I am using sendmail with Open WebMail for an interface.

Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/



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Re: [WISPA] Senao Question

2005-10-27 Thread A. Huppenthal

have you compared with the Tranzeo product?

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

This is why I was asking more about pricing.  I use these 
http://www.demarctech.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_24_38products_id=147osCsid=24262290b45598f284b297f1cd496d87 

and I buy them at $194 each.  They come with mounting hardware, POE, 
ethernet lightning protection and integrated ready to hang.  I am 
always looking for something else, but I always end up determining 
Demarc is the best.  So, for a 250mw radio with 15 DBi antenna, I 
don't see anything better out there.  I really like the BW limiting at 
the CPE.  This is where upload is suppose to be limited.


Brian

Richard Strittmatter wrote:


Hrm.
$145.18

I am paying around $160 for the Tranzeo CPE200-15 in qty 20 pricing.
Couple things that are missing from your quote is the assembly time, and
the POE injector.

One of the reasons we use the tranzeo's over the CB3 is assembly time
on the roof, and external cable connection, external led's, and since
they
are just a CB3 with custom firmware, they work just as well.  Their poe
also has a ground
drain wire ( notice I'm not saying surge supressor here.. )

R


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pete Davis. NoDial.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:41 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Senao Question

All prices from wisp-router.com. You may find better prices elsewhere,
but Eje's usually seem to be in line.

2611 CB3 Deluxe = $94.83 (qty 24)
PacWireless Rootenna = RT24-14 = $36.90 (qty 25) UML (Satellite Arm) =
$13.45

A 3 inch piece of Velcro tape holds in in just fine.

They seem to handle 100 degree + days in South Texas without any
problem. I don't think I have had any fail due to heat or cold. It got
down to the teens last winter.

Pete Davis
NoDial.net

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 


Pete,
Will you list out all the parts and prices of this 200mw CPE?  Is this
   



 


outdoor, POE?  It is kind a build your own?
What temperatures is this operation in?

Brian

George wrote:

   


Pete Davis. NoDial.net wrote:

 

I like the features of the Tranzeos, the Smartbridges, etc etc, but 
at $100 more per CPE, my 200 2611 clients would have cost me $20k 
more. If anyone can tell me another way to get a 36db POE client for
   



 


less than $150 PLEASE contact me off list to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I learned that the hard way.

Pete Davis
NoDial.net
   


Well I would say that Teletronics EZ Bridges were good. I have 500
+/- of them.
And they have a 200MW version.
But lately, I've been getting some bad ones in my orders.

The 100mw pcb kit is 100.00 or so and the 200mw is 125.00 or so.

But I would caution buyer beware, since buying the pcb only version 
and not the full fledges outdoor unit, I've noticed a lot of doa''s 
and unstable units.


Will be nice when StarVX Lonnie gets his single radio cpe.
I understand it may be in the price range you mentioned.

George
 

   



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Re: [WISPA] Will this bother WISPs?

2005-10-27 Thread A. Huppenthal

i tested from here and my modem only does 45Kbits/sec
:-)

Mac Dearman wrote:


Dang - I couldnt get but 691kbps  :-)

turn me up George

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600
318-376-2562 - cell




George wrote:


my test site:

http://www.oregonfast.net/speedtest/

George

danlist wrote:


What test site?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf

Of George
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 5:25 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Will this bother WISPs?

George wrote:


Service is #1 after a person gets on to broadband.

Service is our edge.

George




I just left a new installs house.
While there his speed test results were saying 3,400 to 4,300k.
I told the guy, look it's smokin, nobody goes this fast
He said, yeah man, thats why I got yours, everyone knows your the 
fastest.


So speed is a great advertizer as well.

Speed # 2.


George
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Re: [WISPA] Anyone Know George?

2005-10-25 Thread A. Huppenthal

maybe its lambdawireless, not lanbdawireless?

John Scrivner wrote:

I had a new membership request for WISPA Principle Membership from 
George Vastardis from Lamda Communications. I tried to get him 
registered in the WISPA signup server and get this when I send him an 
invitation to join:


Unknown host: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Anyone know him? Can someone tell him we are having trouble getting 
back to him?

Thanks,
Scriv




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Re: [WISPA] Senao Question

2005-10-24 Thread A. Huppenthal
3054s were troublesome for us, we don't use them any longer, so don't 
have any news

on later firmware/hardware. 802.11b stuff from Senao is great.

Dylan Oliver wrote:

Speaking of Senao ... I just ran across some really nasty reviews of 
the nl-3054 CB3+. My client wants to share a cable connection at one 
house with two others with LOS and within 100ft. Sounds easy enough, 
but those reviews (worst product ever) have me looking again 
elsewhere. But nothing else seems to offer WPA. The 802.11g is nice, 
but could pass.


Anyone have anything decent to say about these?

Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 



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[WISPA] Secondary DNS

2005-10-24 Thread A. Huppenthal
In the old days... :-) 1988-93 my nameserver handed some secondary 
requests on a volunteer basis for other domain owners.
How is everyone dealing with the general good practice of dual DNS 
geographically seperated?



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Re: [WISPA] Secondary DNS

2005-10-24 Thread A. Huppenthal
True, if there's no web or email services, then having DNS doesn't do 
much for you.
nice to spool up email someplace else, if your network is toasted - like 
a hurricane.


once all our network are interconnected with 100 mbit pipes, we can 
worry about backing each other up. :-)

in the mean time, there are commercial solutions...

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Two things.  I figure if both dns servers are at the same place and 
both go down then probably I've got other problems that will take it 
all down anyhow.


Secondly, I've just split my network in two.  So I do have geographic 
and provider redundancy.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Secondary DNS


In the old days... :-) 1988-93 my nameserver handed some secondary 
requests on a volunteer basis for other domain owners.
How is everyone dealing with the general good practice of dual DNS 
geographically seperated?



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Re: [WISPA] Secondary DNS

2005-10-24 Thread A. Huppenthal
pick your closest WISP and connect up.. :-) You might need to swap some 
routing info or setup static routes. tell them to connect to the next 
WISP in the general direction from you to him, until we're all hooked 
up. :-)


this could just be a natural interconnect approach.

Someone did a map some time ago that attempted to list ISPs locations on 
Google maps.


Scott Reed wrote:

I have a tower I would love to have as a hop on a 100M pipe between 
WISPs.  How do we get started?


Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/

*-- Original Message ---*
From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:05:10 -0600
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Secondary DNS

 True, if there's no web or email services, then having DNS doesn't do
 much for you.
 nice to spool up email someplace else, if your network is toasted - 
like

 a hurricane.

 once all our network are interconnected with 100 mbit pipes, we can
 worry about backing each other up. :-)
 in the mean time, there are commercial solutions...

 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

  Two things.  I figure if both dns servers are at the same place and
  both go down then probably I've got other problems that will take it
  all down anyhow.
 
  Secondly, I've just split my network in two.  So I do have geographic
  and provider redundancy.
 
  laters,
  Marlon
  (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
  (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
  42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

  64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
  www.odessaoffice.com http://www.odessaoffice.com//wireless
  www.odessaoffice.com http://www.odessaoffice.com//marlon/cam
 
 
 
  - Original Message - From: A. Huppenthal 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:11 AM
  Subject: [WISPA] Secondary DNS
 
 
  In the old days... :-) 1988-93 my nameserver handed some secondary
  requests on a volunteer basis for other domain owners.
  How is everyone dealing with the general good practice of dual DNS
  geographically seperated?
 
 
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*--- End of Original Message ---*



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Re: [WISPA] RE:Secondary DNS

2005-10-24 Thread A. Huppenthal
I agree with you, DNS traffic normally is pretty low. Do you all just 
swap phyiscal boxes? That something I hadn't heard of before. Seems like 
a good idea.


Justin Wilson wrote:


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:11:04 -0600
From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WISPA] Secondary DNS
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

In the old days... :-) 1988-93 my nameserver handed some secondary
requests on a volunteer basis for other domain owners.
How is everyone dealing with the general good practice of dual DNS
geographically seperated?

   



What we do, and still do, is trade with other providers for backup servers.
We like to find providers that have different backbones than we do. We
usually trade box for box. Works out quite well. Hardly notice the traffic.

Justin

 



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Re: [WISPA] rooftop leasing?

2005-10-06 Thread A. Huppenthal




if need be, post a bond.


Aubrey Wells wrote:

  How is it none of their business? The business plan is none of their
business, but the financials certainly are. Just like any other lease
agreement you enter in to (car, house, apartment, whatever) they want to
make sure you can pay up before they give you the lease.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Rick Smith
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] rooftop leasing?


None of their business.   We had a request like this, and claimed that
it was unfair business practice, and the landlord dropped their request
for such information.
Probably ended up costing us that extra $100 / month but our financial
statements are no one's business. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Dan Metcalf
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:11 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] rooftop leasing?

Aftering spending almost 8 weeks trying to get a lease with a rooftop
provider, they come back at us with a request for a business plan and
financial statement before going forward ---

Thoughts? Has anybody had a request like this before? We haven't

Thanks

Dan


  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Tony Weasler
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cogent - Level3

On 10/6/2005 1:03 PM, Tom DeReggi created:


  
To set the record straight, no peering agreements were violated 
between L3 and Cogent.

  
  I heard otherwise, however I can't prove that.
  

Cogent on their own web site said that agreements were not violated:

"Level 3 terminated its peering with Cogent without cause (as 
permitted under its peering agreement with Cogent) even though both 
Cogent and Level 3 remained in full compliance with the previously 
existing interconnection agreement."
http://status.cogentco.com/



  
There is also no confirmed evidence that L3 is blocking Cogent 
traffic through Cogent's Verio transit (which Cogent pays $$ for.)

  
  There was evidence. I wish I saved my traceroutes yesterday.
To make more clear, Cogent is our backbone.
When going to www.logmein.com, the last successfull hop was a peer 
labelled similar to verio.cogentco.com, meaning we crossed over to 
Verio's side. (the actual name was more meaningful). Now today, the 
traffic destined for that site stops cold at the first hop from our 
network, meaning it does not get routes from Level3 on where to send
  

  
  
  
  

  the data, once we enter Cogent's network.  Unless you are referring 
that Cogent is blocking any advertised route info from Level3, which
  

  
  
  
  

  is highly unlikely.  If Level3 was allowing our IPs to go through 
Verio's link, we would receive routes to route our packets in that 
direction across Cogent's network, and packets would travel further 
into Cogent's network (such as to the Verio link). If Cogent blocked
  

  
  
  
  

  traffic to Verio, it would most likely block it at the peer, not at 
the entry to Cogent's network from us as their client.
  

This isn't evidence of blocking on L3's side.  It could be because 
Cogent only purchases transit to certain prefixes and L3 isn't one of 
them (and Verio is filtering the announcements.)  It could be because 
Cogent internally uses traffic engineering to prevent L3 traffic from 
reaching them over their Verio transit circuits.  One of the two 
scenarios is likely given their peering arrangement with L3.  I didn't

  
  
  
  
see any table entries on the L3 San Diego looking glass for AS174.  I 
saw only one route on their Denver looking glass through AS7018.  Does

  
  
  
  
that mean that L3 is filtering or that Cogent's announcements aren't 
reaching L3 for other reasons?  The former is probably correct, but 
that's not something that can be easily demonstrated.  I couldn't find

  
  
  
  
a looking glass in AS174 which would allow me to see Cogent's tables 
from the inside.  Cogent does appear to be announcing their Verio link

  
  
  
  
to other peers, however.  I see direct announcements for AS174 and an 
announcement for Sprint-Verio-Cogent, but not an ATT-Cogent path.

I think that both carriers are at fault.  Both companies should have 
resolved this before it came to reducing connectivity for their 
customers. They both should be held accountable by their customers.  I

  
  
  
  
replied to your original post, Tom, because Cogent made a public 
statement which directly contradicted yours and I thought that people 
on the list should have a more complete story [1].  You could be 
entirely correct about there having been a contract violation.  I am 
confident that a 

[WISPA] Mac: icecast, or other broadcast

2005-10-03 Thread A. Huppenthal

Mac,

I recall there are number of simple voice casting technologies out 
there. I know you all are likely not up for more work, but I'd really 
welcome a periodic discussion via some internet audio broadcast 
technology. I've messed with Icecast and Shoutcast a bit, but never 
really set it up with a server so others can connect. It would be 
interesting to have a few people talk about their experiences from time 
to time, be it on-site volunteers, or those being helped, or whomever 
walks by.. :-)


Just a thought.

-Alex

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Re: [WISPA] FCC meeting

2005-09-28 Thread A. Huppenthal

I'll have some time then Marlon. and can volunteer. I have a tie.

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


Hi All,

I'm setting up some FCC meetings for late Oct. or early Nov.  I need 5 
people to go.


I'm looking mainly for folks that haven't been there before.  We'll 
get together after the team is picked and talk about what we'd like to 
talk about.


A few things I think should be on that list:
Who the customers are.
Why they use wisps vs. other services.
Examples of wisps servicing areas that have no other services.
Examples of emergency response (I'd like to get Mac there for this one).
What we need in order to be able to do a better job (clean spectrum, 
more power in some bands, outdoor only bands etc.).


You'll need to dress up (I know at least a few of you have still got 
your Sunday best :-) and pay your own way.


If anyone is interested in this please let me know so I can get a 
group together and finalize the plans.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam





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Re: [WISPA] WISPCon

2005-09-28 Thread A. Huppenthal
Your best bet for a commercial trade show is to approach vendors 
presenting there. Check the site and contact any of the vendors - they 
have a vested interest in selling you stuff and therefore have an 
interest in getting you in the door. The organizers are interested in 
making money off you and the vendors, so they are your worst bet (well 
except for any WISPA yet to be announced meetings :-)



Jory Privett wrote:

As a WISP paid member  does anyone know where I can get discount passes to 
WispCon in Dallas October 9-11?



Jory Privett
WCCS


 



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Re: [WISPA] LA team update

2005-09-14 Thread A. Huppenthal

Mac,

Let me introduce Mark Gamrat. Mark is Director of Communications for 
Pitkin County. He is in Louisiana currently working on WiFi setups. 
Perhaps there's mutual benefits to working together. I'm copying Mark so 
he has your contact information.


-Alex

he can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Mac Dearman wrote:


Good morning everyone,


  We are running around finishing up the needed packing as well as 
rolling up the 40x80 tent and getting it in the trailer this morning. 
We are trying to be sure that we save enough room in the trailer to 
roll my big BBQ pitt  in the wagon as well. It seems a lot of the men 
have taken a liking to it put the requestion in for it.


  Can you haul port-a-pottys' with the chemical in them? We have two 
on site here and it sure would be nice to take them with us as the 
sewer systems down there are non functional. We have a 18 wheeler 
trailer (dry box) that we are using to make the move in and would have 
(make enough room for) these two if they can be transported.


 We are going down to bring Internet connectivity, PCs and VOIP to 
three places initially. One is a shelter that has 300+ evacuees that 
are local to Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi. One of them is the camp 
site of City Team and one other camp other than our own.


We are also splitting up and making a second team with a relay yard 
in Alexandria, Louisiana where there are so many shelters without any 
of the resources that we are providing. The big trailer will initially 
be deployed in Alexandria. Our intentions are to provide as long and 
as fast as we can. We will be pulling out of here after while headed 
South.



--
Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-303-4229
318-303-4231
318-450-4349 - Monroe, La
318-303-4227 - NOC

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Re: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams ForFCCPresentation on Thursday

2005-09-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

I agree Rich, and nice to see you are in the group here.
Perhaps the Powerpoint presentation slides having to do with WISPA can 
simply have WISPA logo in brilliant color in each frame, and the 
agreement as to what is presented clearly has slides with appropriate 
source ID's - like a Logo, and identifies the group. For example:


WISPA Section
WISPA Organized Hurricane Relief
WISPA _ Who Are They?
   Non-profit organization committed to rural wirelesss communications 
(tweak)

WISPA Members that participated
Mac et.al.
WISPA Communications For Refugees
Goal: is to quickly create communications infrastructure using TCP/IP 
technologies to provide telephone and data communications among 
Refugees, Releif providers, family and others.

Number of groups serviced
Other services
WISPA collected funds
Summary of contributions from WISPA and others through WISPA..

WISPA Estimated Man Hours Expended

WISPA recommended future actions for Emergency Actions
   Integration with Ham operators for Ham to TCP/IP infrastructure
   Importance of flexible, failure tolerant systems
   Importance of unlicensed spectrum in terms of speed of deployment

WISPA commitment to future Emergency Relief
  Internal plans -
 


Sorry this is so hastily written, but I'm off to work again.. :-)

If Matt or Marlon can go, great. If Mike agrees with the verbatim 
slides, great. nice of him then.



rcomroe wrote:

Done a zillion remote meetings using streaming video/audio.  Not appropriate 
for an FCC presentation.


Come on, guys.  The real issue is what is said, not who is saying it. 
What you need to do is to have WISPA leadership collaborate with P-15 
leadership to come to mutual agreement on what is presented.  That will 
suit everyone's needs.  But beware: Do not settle for simply providing 
material as a substitute.  Submitting material to another group to use or 
not use as they see fit will not represent your interests, guaranteed. 
What's called for is a collaboration and sign-off on what is presented.  It 
doesn't have to be face-to-face ... people remotely email revisions back  
forth on an every day, hour, or even minute basis in collaborative 
construction.  This can work, only if there's someone in your group willing 
to collaborate to make it happen (and both parties are willing to see that 
it's accomplished).  The issue of who does the presentation may be set in 
stone, but if both parties are willing to agree that what is presented 
should be agreeable to both, it can happen.


Rich
- Original Message - 
From: Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:40 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams 
ForFCCPresentation on Thursday



Video stream Mac from the field into the FCC meetingBrad


-Original Message-
From: George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams
ForFCCPresentation on Thursday


John Scrivner wrote:
 


I know Matt has been away from home a bunch lately but I think we should
send Matt Larsen to this FCC event if he will go. We can take the $500
from Charles as part of the expense and have WISPA cover the rest. I
think we need a front line guy to speak at this event. I think we should
ask Michael to introduce Matt and yield a bit of his time if the FCC
will not grant Matt his own time. This shows unity between industry
groups and gives Part-15 and WISPA both an opportunity to show our
efforts in helping those in need. Thoughts?
Scriv

   



I agree that Matt would do well if he could find someone to talk to.
And he would be in the top of the list of people I would want to go to
Washington and represent us.

However, Marlon, if he has the time, has experience of roaming the
halls of the FCC looking for someone to talk to.

Maybe Marlon would be a better choice in this instance?

WISPA hasn't been formally invited to talk to the FCC people, so the
person that goes will need to cold call, which might be difficult to do.

I think this is the perfect time to talk to Washington, and make sure or
reinforce that it was WISPA  quick actions that got phone, broadband,
and computers into the hands of the displaced. Mac Dearman and WISPA
were First Responders

We need to make sure that we get this credit  right away. As time passes
on, a lot will be forgotten and it will be much harder to get the type
of exposure we now deserve.

It would also be good to sometime in the future have a special trip to
Washington for the member wisps of wispa who were effected and those who
volunteered the time and effort to be quick responders.
Guys like Mac need to be recognized for their quick actions, especially
in light of how slow it took the government to respond.


Just my thoughts.

George
 



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Re: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISPTeams ForFCCPresentation on Thursday

2005-09-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
 happy
at the same time.  Sound impossible?  It does to me!  The real fact 
is,
Michael Anderson has done a trememdous amount for our industry in 
the last 5
years.  Not everything he does is approved by everyone, how can it 
be. Heck
that is why WISPA got started in the first place.  Is WISPA 
perfect, no way,
we get criticized all the time for different things.  Face it, our 
industry
is a group of rather independent thinkers and businessmen that want 
to prove
that they can do it on their own.  We are all leaders in our own 
minds, we

bring solutions to people everyday that make their lives better.
I personally think it is time for the Part-15 leadership and the WISPA
leadership to unite our efforts or our fragmented industry will 
crumble a
slow death.  For some that means swallowing some crow, but if we 
truly
care about the industry and our future, we need to open our eyes, 
recognize
our weaknesses and other's strengths and combine these resources to 
create a

powerful team.
Ok, flame away!  :P

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482 Office
260-307-4000 Cell
260-918-4340 VoIP
www.oibw.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:53 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams
ForFCCPresentation on Thursday

I agree w/ Alex and will take this one step further

Mike has a history of taking undue credit for other's actions

At this risk of sounding anti Part-15, in order for WISPA to establish
credibility to its members and the FCC, it needs to be able to 
stand on its

own 2 feet as a separate organization with SEPARATE REPRESENTATION
Another fact worth noting is the effectiveness of the WISPA 
(Dearman and a

group of 20+ volunteers who ACTUALLY MADE A DIFFERENCE) response vs.
Part-15's response. Mac and co have made an IMMEDIATE impact and 
have gotten
exposure on the national news media, while Part-15's efforts got 
bogged down

and ultimately ended up getting lost in the shuffle.

At this point, it seems to me that Part-15 is trying to ride WISPA's
coat-tails

Personally, I think it would be best for Michael to not try to 
take the
spotlight but step aside and turn the FCC presentation over to 
someone who

was actually in the trenches (e.g., a WISPA representative or maybe
someone from Mac's crew).

That said, unfortunately, with a new baby due this month, my 
schedule has
been filled with diaper changing classes and I have been unable to 
devote
the time/energy that many other volunteers have had; however, I 
would like
to support this effort (and help establish WISPA's credibility) by 
putting
$500 up for a WISPA REPRESENTATIVE to travel to DC to represent 
WISPA's

HURRICANE RELIEF EFFORT in front of the FCC

Back to diaper changing class...

-Charles



---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need Inputs From Hurricane Relief WISP Teams For
FCCPresentation on Thursday


Steve,

Its great the FCC asked Mike to speak to them. He can only 
represent those people and businesses that establish him as their 
representative. I have Scriv, Marlon and Rick as well as other 
WISPA members who represent my interests. I'm curious to 
understanding what Mike wants to speak about as well as seeing 
whatever materials he's producing for his 5 minute talk. If he'd 
like to represent me, I'd like to better understand what his 
platform is, motivation, interests, previous qualifications, and so 
on. This looks like a nice opportunity and if Marlon could go along 
and speak for me, that would be great.  I know Marlon, and 
unfortunately, I don't know Mike, except as a leader of a 
for-profit organization which uses FCC part15 as its main interest.


Congratulations to Mike and his company for getting FCC attention. 
Its great PR for his company. Whatever he can do to convey that 
WISPs need more spectrum, better anti-trust legislation that is to 
say - some policing of mega-business policies and better 
co-ordination among BLM and FS with WISPs would be wonderful. If he 
would add his support for WISPA and suggest that the FCC should 
support WISPA's non-profit effort to create a forum for Part15 
associated issues and interests would be greatly appreciated by me.


It would be wonderful to see additional FCC interaction with the 
WISPA organization and its membership. Perhaps he could suggest a 
periodic meeting between the FCC and WISPA membership?


Thanks for the good news that the FCC is paying attention to 
Independents and their representatives. I hope he invites Marlon or 
at least mentions that Marlon and WISPA exist and are making good 
progress.


Cheers,
AH

Re: [WISPA] Part-15 Katrina Disaster Relief Effort Chief of StaffPositions

2005-09-08 Thread A. Huppenthal
Is it possible to post on the part-15 email distribution list for items 
Mac needs for the WISPA crew? I'm not a member of the Part-15 list, so..


JohnnyO wrote:


 Part-15 Disaster Relief Effort
 
JohnnyO
 


-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Sabrina
Smith-Sweeney
*Sent:* Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:04 AM
*To:* wireless@wispa.org
*Subject:* [WISPA] Part-15 Katrina Disaster Relief Effort Chief of
StaffPositions

As Part-15's role in the Katrina Relief Effort has grown, so has
the need for more organization. This is a huge, complex project
and structure is necessary to keep all the elements working
smoothly together.

 


Here is what Michael, Sabrina, and Claudia intend to put into
place. We need *your *help in making it work.

 


To manage transportation, finance, technical decision-making,
personnel, and equipment procurement and distribution, the project
needs five (5) volunteer Division Chiefs.

 


The Division Chief positions are outlined below. If you are
interested please e-mail me off-line at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] stating which position you are
interested in as well as your qualifications. Examples of
experience would help us get to know you and make an informed
decision.

 


These positions are all remote and will not require your presence
on-site. As we gear up they will be labor intensive and require
long hours. We are also hoping to recruit individuals who will be
able to contribute for an extended period of time. Each position
will require a combination of independent work and team work. All
positions require an ability to monitor the listserv for content
relevant to your responsibilities.

 


*Technical Coordinator* - Responsible for managing the many
different technical requirements. This will include managing
technology-specific coordinators who are working on pulling
together / managing others in their specialty.

 


*Chief of Transportation* - Responsible for coordinating
transportation of volunteers and supplies to and from staging
sites, between staging sites, and from staging sites to work
sites. This includes research of possible transportation options
as well finding shippers and coordinating volunteer vehicles.

 


*Chief of Finance* - Responsible for tracking expenses and
managing donated funds. Includes deciding how limited donated
funds should be used.

 


*Chief of Personnel* - Responsible for monitoring and identifying
site personnel needs, recruiting appropriate personnel, and
assigning personnel to roles, projects, and teams. You will work
closely with Site Team Chiefs to meet site personnel needs and
Chief of Transportation to help the volunteers get to their work
site.

 


*Chief of Supply* - Responsible for monitoring and identifying
site equipment and supply needs, tracking inventory, and assigning
equipment and supplies to sites. This requires significant
coordination with Site Team Chiefs to meet site needs and with the
Chief of Transportation to help get equipment and supplies to the
appropriate sites. This position requires an understanding of the
many types of technical items that will be used. You do not have
to know how to run them all, but you do need to understand what
they are.



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Re: [WISPA] Hello WISPs!

2005-09-04 Thread A. Huppenthal
What's Mac's paypal address John? I've been offline for a couple of days 
and I want to make a donation. Does it make any difference if we pay to 
Mac's address or through WISPA?


-Alex


John Scrivner wrote:

Thanks to all who are helping those in need. Let me know what I and 
WISPA can do to help. We are all going to work together on this 
effort. We can all help guys like Mac Dearman who are making a 
difference today for evacuees in Louisiana. I understand the need for 
a much larger scope plan and am willing to help with that also but I 
hope we can all empower Mac to do more right now while we are all 
working on the bigger picture. Mac is helping a much smaller and 
focused effort than what our big picture effort will be but I have 
seen much great things coming from Mac's efforts and I think it is 
important that we bring some immediate help while working on the 
longer term goals. If you are not on the Hurricane Relief mailing list 
and you want to be then go to:

http://tinyurl.com/boxe9
and replace the word Volunteer in the body of the message with the 
nickname you want to be known as on the list.


I recently received a message from Mac that he would welcome the use 
of his 50 acre homestead as a staging area with power and Internet 
access there. He has a large barn that can store supplies also. This 
could be the point from which we all start branching out to other 
efforts in Louisiana. Jim Patient is on his way to Mac's place and 
Butch is already there.  Planning is important but helping those in 
need with some assistance right away is a good way to help us see the 
needs of the big picture. Thoughts?

Thanks guys,
John Scrivner



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Re: [WISPA] Re: Hurrican help

2005-08-31 Thread A. Huppenthal
I haven't seen any posts from a close-by ISP. Perhaps we can send a 
router, backhaul, or other basic equipment to quick build a link into 
the area from someplace that does work. I know there's lots of trees 
there, so it isn't an easy proposition.  I'm ready to toss in some 
equipment. I have no spare labor.



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Thinking about what Mac said, I would think setting up some 'phone' 
points would be a big help. 
 
First find a WISP site nearby, set up 2 tents, 1 for 2-3 volunteers to 
live in, and 1 with a solar panel and/or generator, antenna, computer, 
and a few VOIP phones and let the survivors say have 5 minutes to call 
loved ones to say they are alive.  I know this is a simple statement 
and it will take much more behind the scenes, but it seems like that 
would be a great start. 
 
Some would have the extra equipment, some could rotate volunteers, 
some have the service, some provide funding, and some the 
organizational skills.
 
Walter



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Re: [WISPA] Rohn BX Tower

2005-08-22 Thread A. Huppenthal
Any comments on freestanding towers? Apparently the FS/BLM want all new 
towers to be free standing in many areas.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I won't skip, but I don't want to waste.  I want to do it exactly what 
is needs to be, well, if it's suppose to be a 48 inch hole, I'd do 
49.  But I don't want to have to do 5 ft.  I want to figure enough for 
the job without wasting material and time.  Believe me, I want 
efficiency, not corner cutting.


JohnnyO wrote:

CPE - PLUS a climber while it's being installed - Don't skimp Brian - 
I prob do more things out of specs then most - but that is b/c I add 
overkill into our tower bases
 
JohnnyO


-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 9:47 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Rohn BX Tower

I know.  On one hand I want it good enough for a CPE, but on the
other hand I don't want to hear on the news 20 years from now
that it crashed over and killed a guy when he wanted to put his
VW Bug on top of it.  I want to build it to take whatever people
want to put on it.

Scott Reed wrote:


Only a CPE today, but towers always beg for more equipment.
Don't skimp, you never know what you will want/need in the future.

Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/

*-- Original Message ---*
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:34:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rohn BX Tower

 Portland cement has no gravel.  I'll mix it 4 parts to one. 
So.those 15 94 lb bags are like 60 94 lb bags.  I had

figured I needed 1.28 yards for the hole I dug.  But now that I
have the specs I will see how big the hole has to be.  I will
only put a CPE on this tower.  Nothing huge.

 Brian

 Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

15 bags of cement won't mean squat in a hole that 


big.









North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 


509-593-4061

personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot 


net

sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot 


net

Fast Internet, NO 


WIRES!



-

- Original Message - 




From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 7:21 
PM
Subject: [WISPA] Rohn BX 
Tower


 
   

I dug a hole 32 inch square by 42 inches deep yesterday for a 

rohn 


bx

tower.  It is 5 sections of 8 ft.  I just got 15 bags of portland 


cement

   

 

and will add my own 


gravel.

 

   

I was thinking about three 1 1/2 inch pieces of pipe stuck in 

the 


concrete

   

 

to bolt the tower legs to.  I 


will

 

   

thread and put couplers on the pipe at 22 inches so they can't 

move.  


I've

   

 

got some re-bar to chuck down in the hole 


too.

 

   

I've got 3 8ft ground rods and will bond with #4 bare stranded 

wire.  


I

   

 

picked up a load of grade 8 


bolts,

 

   

washers, and lock washers for bolting the tower together and to 

the 


pipe

   

 

stubs.  Anyone have any 


suggestions

 

   

for me?  This is my first tower.  I will pour tomorrow 


afternoon.



brian





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*--- End of Original Message ---*



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/2005
 




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/2005
 



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Re: [WISPA] Rohn BX Tower

2005-08-22 Thread A. Huppenthal
around here, that's US Forest Service or Bureau of Land Management - 
they have jurisdiction over much of the mountain land here.




Blair Davis wrote:


FS/BLM??


A. Huppenthal wrote:

Any comments on freestanding towers? Apparently the FS/BLM want all 
new towers to be free standing in many areas.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I won't skip, but I don't want to waste.  I want to do it exactly 
what is needs to be, well, if it's suppose to be a 48 inch hole, I'd 
do 49.  But I don't want to have to do 5 ft.  I want to figure 
enough for the job without wasting material and time.  Believe me, I 
want efficiency, not corner cutting.


JohnnyO wrote:

CPE - PLUS a climber while it's being installed - Don't skimp Brian 
- I prob do more things out of specs then most - but that is b/c I 
add overkill into our tower bases
 
JohnnyO


-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian 
Rohrbacher

*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 9:47 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Rohn BX Tower

I know.  On one hand I want it good enough for a CPE, but on the
other hand I don't want to hear on the news 20 years from now
that it crashed over and killed a guy when he wanted to put his
VW Bug on top of it.  I want to build it to take whatever people
want to put on it.

Scott Reed wrote:


Only a CPE today, but towers always beg for more equipment.
Don't skimp, you never know what you will want/need in the 
future.


Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/

*-- Original Message ---*
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:34:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rohn BX Tower

 Portland cement has no gravel.  I'll mix it 4 parts to one. 
So.those 15 94 lb bags are like 60 94 lb bags.  I had

figured I needed 1.28 yards for the hole I dug.  But now that I
have the specs I will see how big the hole has to be.  I will
only put a CPE on this tower.  Nothing huge.

 Brian

 Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


15 bags of cement won't mean squat in a hole that
big.









North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC
509-593-4061

personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot
net

sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot
net

Fast Internet, NO
WIRES!

 



-

- Original Message -


From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 7:21 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Rohn BX Tower

 
 


I dug a hole 32 inch square by 42 inches deep yesterday for a
rohn
bx

tower.  It is 5 sections of 8 ft.  I just got 15 bags of portland
cement

  



and will add my own
gravel.

 

 


I was thinking about three 1 1/2 inch pieces of pipe stuck in
the
concrete

  



to bolt the tower legs to.  I
will

 

 


thread and put couplers on the pipe at 22 inches so they can't
move. I've

  



got some re-bar to chuck down in the hole
too.

 

 


I've got 3 8ft ground rods and will bond with #4 bare stranded
wire. I

  



picked up a load of grade 8
bolts,

 

 


washers, and lock washers for bolting the tower together and to
the
pipe

  



stubs.  Anyone have any
suggestions

 

 


for me?  This is my first tower.  I will pour tomorrow
afternoon.



brian





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*--- End of Original Message ---*

 



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 
8/19/2005
 

 



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 
8/19/2005
 








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Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

2005-08-22 Thread A. Huppenthal
Not true. Minority stakeholders are actually protected from this 
behavior in many states. I think the level is 15% in Colorado. If you 
aren't careful raising money you could end up with your Popsicle in a 
wringer. Check investment rules. If you take money which exceeds the a 
certain percentage of an individual's net worth, you could be in 
trouble. If you don't disclose risks you could be in deep weeds.


You can find Angel investors - just google around for incubators or 
angel investors. They can and do know how to invest and how to help your 
company grow. Be prepared to sell off more of your company though as 
time moves forward.



Charles Wu wrote:


sure
 
a passive minority equity position stake in a privately held company 
is worthless, as legally, the person with the majority stake can make 
100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing, spending, cash 
distribution, etc)
 
think about it, if it was your money, would you be willing to just 
invest it into a company when the majority partner can do whatever 
he/she wants to and you have no recourse?
 
-Charles
 


---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com http://www.wispnog.com/
August 15-17, 2005

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dylan Oliver
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

Charles,

would you expand on that?

On 8/22/05, *Charles Wu* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family) worth their
salt will be
willing to invest capital into the company for a minority
position, as that
is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money

That said, there is a fool born every day

-Charles


-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 



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Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-18 Thread A. Huppenthal

:-)

Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, add a blindfold, take a swig of whiskey to 
keep warm, go alone, leave your cell phone and radio behind, and don't 
check the guywires, see how far you can sway the tower at the top, and 
bring a parachute.. :-) oh yea.. :-)


Unlike my alter ego in the mock note I wrote, I'm always super careful 
on climbing. It requires extensive planning, teamwork, double safety 
procedures, vigilence about weather. We were on Sunlight Peak in June 
and a freak storm hit - within 15 minutes of getting off the tower - ice 
pellets, rain, lightning. We were a few hundred yards from the last 
tower on the Peak -  just 10 minutes before all hell broke loose. In the 
Rockies, storms can appear without much warning - so you depend on your 
ground personnel to keep an eye out. We use weather radar on notebook 
pc's tied into the net, to supplement pre-planning reviews.


Everything makes a difference, from hair cut, to clothes, boots, to 
safety equipment, glasses to organizational items. I use a small 
backpack with clips, organized so it can be attached nearby and serve as 
a small tool bag, hardware spare parts kit, walkie talkie holder, all at 
about 5 lbs. I do take duplicate tools, all the standard bolt/nut sizes 
we have on the tower (3 wrenches) and spares, along with 2 small 
adjustable wrenches.


Just having a climbing bag outfitted properly is crucial, as far as I'm 
concerned. To someone who hasn't been up there it may seem trivial. I 
want every second to count, every movement to be preconsidered, 
everything I need in its proper place, and within easy reach. Years ago, 
I realized having to make a second trip because someone pulled vinyl 
tape out of the kit or splicing tape, or a 5/16ths speed wrench doesn't 
cut it.


While I prep each trip, I'm thinking we'll have a 'hands-off' pack with 
duplicate equipment for the climb. Using a hauling rope to bring up a 
new bag with missing tools is dangerous, unpleasent, and unnessary.


Take a course, work with experienced people, don't hold out for cheaper 
gear, clip in often,  rest, relax, focus, tell your pals to shut up 
while you are climbing, clip in, rest before you go, as some one said - 
bring water, dehydration is real at altitude - if you have a feeling 
about not climbing *don't*, trust your skeptical instinct. If you don't 
have the experience, don't climb. If you want to practice, go up 4 feet 
off the ground and do everything you plan on doing 100 feet up. You fall 
from 4 feet up, you are going to hurt, but you'll like be alive. Get to 
know all your gear within a few feet of the ground - practice using your 
backup ropes, gear, repell from a low height. Always have a backup.


And finally, don't listen to me. I'm not an instructor, and I'm not 
getting paid to write this. I do care about any of you that are 
climbing. It is dangerous - but fun, and exhilerating - if done 
properly. :-) Take the course, be careful. Stay alive.



George wrote:


:)
Alex
You forgot to mention the blindfold.
Too funny.
:)

Glad  wisps have a cents of humor

George


A. Huppenthal wrote:

First thing I do is get some leather soled, slip on shoes. I walk 
through the mud and hop on the tower. I take an extra jacket that I 
tie off to my waist and,  if my legs get tired, re-tie it to the 
tower leg and around me. Normally, the backpack I have on is filled 
with tools - I bring everything, power drill, bits, wratchet set - 
its heavy and bulky, but better than having to return to the ground. 
I usally wear just one glove, that way if the ice on the tower is  
bothering my bare hand I can just hold on with the gloved hand. I 
find it challanging when the wind is blowing just before an 
electrical storm to get to the highest part of the tower before I 
hear the thunder. I'll count down 1.2.3.4.5 after the flash, and if I 
can get to 3, I know I'm safe.


Sometimes my loose jacket will snag on an antenna on the way up and 
hold me up for a few seconds but I can swing around holding on with 
one hand. I never climb with a rope. If I do drag a rope up with me, 
I make sure its a nylon one - light and with no give. I'll weave it 
through the tower as I go up, and keep the end of it wrapped up on 
one hand - usually the bare one.


Once I'm up above 100 feet, I'll lock an arm around the tower and put 
much shoe into a cross member to get relaxed. Sometimes the blood 
cuts off in my arm and I can't feel anything in that arm, but I know 
I'm safe. Often when I'm pulling up a 150 lbs of extra stuff on a '25 
tower, it tends to band into other antennas and get stuck, but if you 
pull really hard, you can normally get it loose.


And if you do any of this stuff, don't call yourself a professional, 
or complain if you are dead in a day of climbing.








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Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance to save my life)

2005-08-17 Thread A. Huppenthal
My thought was : how can WISPA help improve safety for members? I climb 
more than I care to, frankly. Safety is the #1 objective. *nothing* is 
more important. Consider weather, weight, structure, attachment, ropes.. 
the list is long and I agree, a seminar/training is the way to go. 
Between jetski rides, I'd like to see that. :-)


Mike Healy wrote:

H, sounds to me like you better find a class than can teach you 
common sense cause you sure ain't got any. I agree with Bob's 
rant. with one addition... IF (and that is a big if) the 
local fire dept has a ladder it is only going to go up less than 100' 
for one and they are not trained (in general) in plucking someone off 
the side of a tower.


My suggestion. spend the money on the training and equipment to do 
it right before you hurt (or kill) yourself or someone else...


Just my $.02 worth

Mike


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

To be completely honest.  Only if it's free.  Otherwise, I'll stay 
tied off 100% of the time and not let anyone stand below me.  From 
there, I'll just pick up pointers as I go along and use common sense 
(something no class can teach me).


A. Huppenthal wrote:


How about a training seminar for climbing - OSHA safe.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Actually, I already own it.  Bill Curd sold me his extra one 2 
weeks ago.


George wrote:



Hey order the one with the aluminum bar seat in it.
It's only like 20 dollars more, and it's a lot more comfortable to 
be on a tower in.


http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10193

I just got one for my guy and hey says it's way more comfortable 
than the other one and he can spend more time on a tower.


George


Bob Moldashel wrote:


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

last chance.  I am ordering.  Well, it's been 3 yearsbut 
it's time for a harness.  Up until now I only climbed grain 
legs.  I am going to go up a 90ft Rohn 25g style tower.  It 
there anything else I need.









Yeah...How about some training???





Can I get some links to the rope and pulleys ya'll use?




http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10234-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D 



http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10241-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D 



http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10511-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D 



http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10192










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Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-17 Thread A. Huppenthal
First thing I do is get some leather soled, slip on shoes. I walk 
through the mud and hop on the tower. I take an extra jacket that I tie 
off to my waist and,  if my legs get tired, re-tie it to the tower leg 
and around me. Normally, the backpack I have on is filled with tools - I 
bring everything, power drill, bits, wratchet set - its heavy and bulky, 
but better than having to return to the ground. I usally wear just one 
glove, that way if the ice on the tower is  bothering my bare hand I can 
just hold on with the gloved hand. I find it challanging when the wind 
is blowing just before an electrical storm to get to the highest part of 
the tower before I hear the thunder. I'll count down 1.2.3.4.5 after the 
flash, and if I can get to 3, I know I'm safe.


Sometimes my loose jacket will snag on an antenna on the way up and 
hold me up for a few seconds but I can swing around holding on with one 
hand. I never climb with a rope. If I do drag a rope up with me, I make 
sure its a nylon one - light and with no give. I'll weave it through the 
tower as I go up, and keep the end of it wrapped up on one hand - 
usually the bare one.


Once I'm up above 100 feet, I'll lock an arm around the tower and put 
much shoe into a cross member to get relaxed. Sometimes the blood cuts 
off in my arm and I can't feel anything in that arm, but I know I'm 
safe. Often when I'm pulling up a 150 lbs of extra stuff on a '25 tower, 
it tends to band into other antennas and get stuck, but if you pull 
really hard, you can normally get it loose.


And if you do any of this stuff, don't call yourself a professional, or 
complain if you are dead in a day of climbing.



Mac Dearman wrote:


I meant 3 people on this list!!!


Mac






Mac Dearman wrote:



 I would be willing to bet that their aint more than 3 people who 
have actually attended and completed a climbing school. I have been 
climbing for years and have never been to an actual school that I had 
to pay for. I have yet to fall, bust a chin or a nut on a tower. I 
may fall in the morning, but it won't be because I wasnt tied off - - 
- I am worth more dead than alive in ca$h  - - - so someone hire a 
private detective to check my wifes  knife along with my lanyard :-)


  Good common sense is worth more than anything I can think of. I 
have had some private tutoring by seasoned pro's that has been a 
great help. I would attend and pay for professional training even 
today if there was such a thing anywhere in the South.


My best advice is to get training, but if you cant - - take your time 
as you climb, be sure you are 100% locked off and no drinking alcohol 
or smoking pot...etc before climbing and ALWAYS wear sunglasses, 
gloves and take water!!! NEVER CLIMB ALONE - always have someone on 
the ground watching for you and paying attention - - not sleeping!  
If you get scared, come down easy and try again another day. No war 
was ever won in a single day!!!







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Re: [WISPA] Trade SHows

2005-08-14 Thread A. Huppenthal
I've always liked Wisconsin (well for the long and beautiful summer, 
sorry I can't come in Feb though wow, it can be cold)...


I have to note here. This is really Scriv's idea, not mine and I don't 
want to step on his toes for this event. I don't know if he's going to 
chime in here, but I want him to give his blessing on whatever develops 
for a summer WISPA get together. I frankly am not all that stoked about 
WiNOG, since that was birthed by WISPA people, and then adopted, or 
kidnapped, if you prefer, when WISPA folk - me included, didn't jump in 
and get it organized and turned into a for-profit fest. All the best to 
it, but there's room for some jetskis and a different venue. Give me 
some smokin' watercraft, decent water, and some blue skys, a few other 
WISPs to BS with and I'm set for a hell of a good feeling weekend+..


A get together has always aligned with the non-profit, have fun, limit 
salesmanship - other than to each other by our mutual, hard one 
experiences - which are very very valuable. Be it in a tent by the 
river/lake or in an urban setting.. (motorcycles or aircraft - I'll play 
pilot - I managed earn a commercial multi-engine instrument rating some 
years ago) Not the same as a bunch of screaming jetskis chasing down the 
yachts.. ha ha ha.. Of course I'm exaggerating a bit here... WISPA water 
gang goes crazy... I can see the headlines now...


Frankly, I *need* the vacation..



Dylan Oliver wrote:

Spring Green, Wisconsin is truly lovely with all these damned hills.. 
I'll volunteer it!

--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 



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Re: [WISPA] Trade SHows

2005-08-14 Thread A. Huppenthal
Its all a social thing for me. I don't go to shows to learn anything new 
much any more. Its all on the Web, or as you say, in the trade show demo 
/ exhibit areas - you can ask some tough questions, like, when will the 
Atlas radios be working reliably? They rock when they work, but I'm on 
pins and needles about the links I'm testing going south. hmmm.. If we 
all end up someplace this year that's just for WISPs, I'll bring a pair 
and setup a link for the whole period of time and have a 'bake-off'.. No 
vendors allowed, or promoters..


Mac Dearman wrote:

   I personally am so sick of every F**ker trying to sell me 
something  everytime I turn around. I am going to WispCon, but I aint 
paying to attend a damn thing. Someone will give me a pass for the 
exhibits and the rest of the sales BS can suck a limb. I do like going 
to these functions for the meeting of wireless buddies and meeting 
some I havent ever had the pleasure of meeting. I also like to rub 
elbows with the guys whose gear I do use.


Mac






Charles Wu wrote:


Hi,

Not sure what I did to get the WiNOG show blacklisted - but, taking 
our

event out of the mix, if you were going to look at alternative WISP/ISP
shows, I'd highly recommend checking out ISPCON

http://www.ispcon.com

Although wireless is just one component of the show, the Golden Group 
(show
producers) is a highly professional organization that tries REALLY 
HARD to

cater to the small ISP/WISP

-Charles 
---

WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005

 






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Re: [WISPA] Trade SHows

2005-08-14 Thread A. Huppenthal
Hell of a deal.. Gets my vote so far.. Michigan is cold though isn't it? 
Been a long time since I was up there... Whatever we do, I think we 
should have one of these this year... The summer in Aspen is pretty much 
gone. We had 2 weeks in July and now its sweater weather, I kid you not.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I have a pair of 2004 stand up wave runners we can ride all around.  
Michigan would be a nice place for the gathering.  What do ya'll 
think?  It can be the Mid-West Tent Camp WISPA.  Lets do this mid 
September.  When and where, I'll be there.


Mac Dearman wrote:



 awww dude, the day after  the red red wine will make you feel like 
you rammed a freight train sometime in the night. I got to admit that 
I like the Chianti  - - - but in really small quantities!!  
hehehehehe - you use the wicker jug that the Chianta comes in to  put 
a candle in and place it on a shelf for a nice romantic, warm feeling 
here in Louisiana.


  I am all for a camp meeting somewhere - - please include me in the 
final destination, but the Mosquitoes down here are atrocious and I 
hear tales they stand flat footed and are have been known to have  - 
- - - well - - - - they say sex with Turkeys, but thats probably 
giving them a bit much credit. I reckon what I am saying is make it 
when its cooler and a Mosquito free environment please :-)   Swimming 
and jet skis would be a definite plus!


 I do have a Big Creek  and about 300 acres of open field behind my 
house, but then there is the Mosquito thing and all my neighbors 
would bring their Chianta and candles in the wicker encased bottles - 
- -  it would appear to be another seance and these local red neck 
Police would raid the party, drink the wine and break all the 
bottles  - - -  and then on Saturday mornings these folks get on a 
14 x 8' plank board, drag behind a 25HP Evinrude (outboard) and a 
14' aluminum boat and call it stump jumping- - - - -  Big Creek 
won't work.




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Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule

2005-08-06 Thread A. Huppenthal

http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/3525631

The next headline: Desperate Telco DSL partners look to wireless as 
salvation.

Telcos clean up stealing ISP DSL customers.
Spectrum Auction Prices Jump in Value as DSL 1 year transition period ends

So yes, WISPs will be the remaining alternative to DSL / Cable in 12 
months, cause you ain't going to get the FCC or any Anti-trust 
legislation, Telcos don't want to share 'their' copper infrastructure, 
(which the wrote off many years ago through tax breaks)


The opportunity here is for the Covad's of the world to join forces with 
the WISPs to create low cost national alternatives to DSL and Cable.


Will the FCC recognize WISPs and WISPA as a driving force?
Will the FCC give the public back more spectrum? Since we all own it to 
begin with.
Will WISPs be able to compete and innovate in the every tightening 
political environment which is Telco and large company centric?


I think, only if WISPA wins.

JNA wrote:


We need more spectrum that is *our* spectrum not just spectrum to have
spectrum. Sure we have what we have but we are sharing it with devices other
than what we use that help trash it.

John

 


Tom, I had to go and read where I said we don't need more spectrum.
Sadly I cannot find that statement.

I did, however, say that we must learn to use what we have before we
should be given any more.  When someone is not responsible with their
spectrum allocation it is stupid to give them more and expect things
to be fixed by getting more.  We already have an incredible amount of
bandwidth, but it is being squandered by a few clueless people.

Lonnie


On 8/5/05, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   


Marlon and Lonnie,

First Off, Lonnie I fully agree with your point that we should not
 


suggest
   


rules that discourage good design or make it to easy to do poor designs.

However, saying we don't need more spectrum is rediculous, expecially in
these urban areas with lots of competition. We need to gain access to
 


every
   


ounce of spectrum that we can.

I FULLY agree with Marlon, that it would be a GREAT idea to find a way
 


to
   


have 6 Ghz more usable for us.  It is factual that the 6 foot antenna
requirement makes it near impossible for most WISPs to use the band cost
effectively.  I personally am effected by this and could have need for
 


the
   


band.  However doing away with the large antenna rule all togeather I
 


think
   


would be a mistake. A PtP band with safety rules is advantageous.   I'd
suggest asking to modify the rules to the extent necessary to make it
 


usable
   


for us.  For example, what if the min antenna size requirement was
 


reduced
   


down to a 3 ft dish?  Thats still down to around 5 degrees, and pretty
 


easy
   


getting approval for a 3 ft dish.

Marlon, whats the most cost effective 6 Ghz radios on the market today,
excluding the antennas? Just so I understand the ball park we are
 


talking
   


about. When you say Licenced is still twice the cost, that doesn't mean
 


much
   


unless you identify wether you were talking about unlicenced redline or
Trango :-)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc







- Original Message -
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General
 


List
   


wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule


 


I think you guys are wrong on this.  This is still a ptp band and it's
licensed.  So interference issues can be dealt with.

As for links that are not correctly aimed.  Why in the world would we
   


want
   


to give up on what could be a very useful rule change just because
   


some
   


minority (probably a very small minority) will likely screw up?

Think, instead about how nice it would be if the manufacturers could
modify today's relatively cheap 5 gig radios to do 6 gig.  It's not
   


all
   


that much of a leap.  But today MANY of you couldn't use that gear
   


because
   


you'd never be able to mount the antennas.  Or because it's licensed
   


gear
   


it's still nearly twice the cost of unlicensed.

It's easy to come up with reasons not to make changes.  A man once
   


told me
   


that if no one ever changed we'd still all be eating with our fingers.
Your points are valid but I don't think they are likely enough to
   


happen
   


that it'll matter.  Or we can take steps now to deal with those
   


issues.
   


Again, it's a licensed band, interference isn't really an issue.  You
   


have
   


protection against that.

I've got a customer in Fresno that's got no place to go with 2.4 or
   


900.
   


He's using VERY high end radios in the 5 gig bands.  Even the big boy
   


toys
   


won't work well anymore.  Even ptp links.  He's getting by but it's
getting much harder all of the 

[WISPA] BB Bill of Rights?

2005-08-06 Thread A. Huppenthal
How's everyone feel about WISPA working to adopt a policy / position 
statement for our member companies and end-users along these lines:


http://www.newnetworks.com/broadbandbill.htm


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Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule

2005-08-06 Thread A. Huppenthal

17 dBi on 6 footer goes 32 miles here with 30 db fade margin @ 6 ghz

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

Can you tell me the frequencies in the 6 GHz bands that are desired? 
Are there any modulation limits, as to bandwidth and power output? 
What sort of distances are typically involved?  A 6 foot dish can push

a signal a very long distance or have a very high signal at a shorter
distance.

Lonnie

On 8/6/05, A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 


$20K is about right for the radios for a licensed path. $500 to $2000
for the path analysis and license.

The market has set that price. If 200 ISPs that belong to WISPA
indicated their interest.. Well Lonnie might make them or someone else.
The chipsets are there to operate in those bands, getting the FCC to
allow them to be used in that band is a challenge.

Whatever anyone wants to say about improve our effiency in using
existing spectrum, we need to be fighting for more at this point, since
there will be a swell of DSL users moving to Fixed wireless over the
next year, as Telcos attempt to dominate that marketplace. Which will
in-turn cause more congestion on the airwaves. That and the
Anti-competitive actions of telcos - pricing below cost, are the two
areas I recommend we all focus on.

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

   


Last I heard a guy could get a Harris system (both ends, just radios)
for a shade under $20k.  Might be a bit lower now as it's been a
couple of years. For a 45 meg system that's pretty high by today's
standards.

Let me say this again guys.  We're talking LICENSED bands here.
Interference isn't an issue no matter what antennas etc. are used.  If
you get interference on YOUR band you can make the other guy stop.
It's just that simple.

I honestly see few down sides to this idea.

I'd sure like to see more of the 300 or so companies here chime in.
So far it's looking like 2 to 1 that we do nothing.  I must admit I'm
more than a bit shocked.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule


 


Marlon and Lonnie,

First Off, Lonnie I fully agree with your point that we should not
suggest rules that discourage good design or make it to easy to do
poor designs.

However, saying we don't need more spectrum is rediculous, expecially
in these urban areas with lots of competition. We need to gain access
to every ounce of spectrum that we can.

I FULLY agree with Marlon, that it would be a GREAT idea to find a
way to have 6 Ghz more usable for us.  It is factual that the 6 foot
antenna requirement makes it near impossible for most WISPs to use
the band cost effectively.  I personally am effected by this and
could have need for the band.  However doing away with the large
antenna rule all togeather I think would be a mistake. A PtP band
with safety rules is advantageous. I'd suggest asking to modify the
rules to the extent necessary to make it usable for us.  For example,
what if the min antenna size requirement was reduced down to a 3 ft
dish?  Thats still down to around 5 degrees, and pretty easy getting
approval for a 3 ft dish.

Marlon, whats the most cost effective 6 Ghz radios on the market
today, excluding the antennas? Just so I understand the ball park we
are talking about. When you say Licenced is still twice the cost,
that doesn't mean much unless you identify wether you were talking
about unlicenced redline or Trango :-)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc







- Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General
List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule


   


I think you guys are wrong on this.  This is still a ptp band and
it's licensed.  So interference issues can be dealt with.

As for links that are not correctly aimed.  Why in the world would
we want to give up on what could be a very useful rule change just
because some minority (probably a very small minority) will likely
screw up?

Think, instead about how nice it would be if the manufacturers could
modify today's relatively cheap 5 gig radios to do 6 gig.  It's not
all that much of a leap.  But today MANY of you couldn't use that
gear because you'd never be able to mount the antennas.  Or because
it's licensed gear it's still nearly twice the cost of unlicensed.

It's easy to come up with reasons not to make changes.  A man once
told me that if no one ever changed we'd still all be eating with
our fingers. Your points are valid but I don't think they are likely
enough