Re: [WISPA] Slightly OT: punching holes in stainless steel enclosures

2016-06-19 Thread George Rogato

Do you have a url?

On 6/19/2016 3:03 PM, T Maylone wrote:

tractor supply 36 x 18 x 18 $219

all depends on purpose and what you call reasonable


/Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID/


Adair Winter  wrote:

http://www.amprod.us/t-minifort_enclosures.aspx

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Mitch > wrote:


Where are you guys find reasonably priced enclosures?


Mitch Koep
218-851-8689  cell

On 06/19/2016 08:36 AM, Scott Carullo wrote:

plasma cutter.  I can make a hole (square for fan or round for
whatever) in about 10 seconds without any effort and without
buying expensive carbide bits over and over.  Its my new favorite
way :)
*Scott Carullo*
Technical Operations
Florida High Speed Internet
(321) 205-1100 x102 



*From*: "Adair Winter" 

*Sent*: Sunday, June 19, 2016 9:06 AM
*To*: "WISPA General List" 

*Subject*: Re: [WISPA] Slightly OT: punching holes in stainless
steel enclosures
I best option is to use a knock out/punch kit, like the OP
suggested.
Drilling is OK but a step bit can make a real mess of a hole and
stainless makes it even worse.
On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 7:54 AM, T Maylone
> wrote:

slow speed
carbide bit
coolant
let the drill do the work not muscle
sharp bit
easy to sharpen
/Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID/


"Troy Gibson, Byhalia.net" > wrote:
Stepped bits work great but stainless steel will ruin any
bit, so I buy cheap ones from harbor freight as they are dull
when the hole is done.  This is what I have used, $20 for two
piece set instead of $50 for one this size from Lowe's. 
These tear through steel too.  I've used on 1/2 inch

Galvanized I beams with no problem.

http://m.harborfreight.com/2-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-drills-96275.html
Troy
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message 
From: Stephen Potter >
Date: 6/18/16 11:38 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: WISPA General List >
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Slightly OT: punching holes in stainless
steel enclosures
I have used stepped drill bits with excellent results for
drilling holes into sheetmetal/stock.
http://amzn.to/1UhSf7o
Inline image 1
Steve
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 8:34 PM, Adair Winter
> wrote:

That's exactly what we do. It'll be fine.
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 10:21 PM, > wrote:

Howdy.

Ordered a nice new stainless steel outdoor enclosure
to house some equipment. I need to put some 3/4 inch
holes in it. Anyone happen to know if using a regular
Klein or Greenlee punch set will do the trick? I know
they work great on mild steel but wasn't sure about
stainless.

Anyone ever done it before?

Thanks,
Mike
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VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 
C: 806.231.7180 
http://www.amarillowireless.net




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C: 806.231.7180 

Re: [WISPA] Software for network monitoring

2015-01-09 Thread George Rogato

I use Nagios for up, down, unreachables.
It has a plug in for mozilla firefox that sits in the bottom add on bar 
which shows you up, down, unreachables and more. It's customizable.



On 1/9/2015 2:11 PM, Fabrizio Fiore Donati wrote:
Hi all we have a network of about 200 wireless pop, each pop have 
about 8 devices, what software do you suggest to use for monitoring ?
Wireless devices are a mix of mikrotik, ubiquity, cambium and siae 
microelettronica. Switches are zte and cisco.


Right now we use ipswitch whatsup gold but i'm looking for a valid 
alternative.


Anu suggestion ?

Fabrizio Fiore Donati

Mobile: +39 3289872420
E-mail: fabrizio.fioredon...@2bite.net 
mailto:fabrizio.fioredon...@2bite.net


2bite s.r.l.
Via Campo di Pile
67100 L'Aquila (AQ) - Italy
Tel.: +39 0862441583


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Re: [WISPA] Data-Alliance.net Horror story w/ Air Fiber

2012-12-17 Thread George Hardesty
Shipping of the World version was my grievous error and I'm terribly,
terribly sorry that it happened and caused all of this trouble for Scott.
 I thought that what we had was US version and based on various reasons I
had no reason to believe otherwise.  But I didn't verify that and I really
feel terrible for all the trouble that it has caused Scott.

As soon as we found out that we had shipped the wrong version, we shipped
the US version.  Then 1 or 2 days later I received notice that Scott or his
office had charged-back the $1500 + shipping to us and I got a little
panicky about it because we had never done business with them before, and
he knew that we had shipped the US version unit, and yet we had notice of a
chargeback.  The burden of proof is always on the merchant and the banks
always favor the customer in a chargeback situation; chargebacks are always
risky for the merchant.  So I requested a UPS interception by email, of the
shipment of the US version.  Then I corresponded with Scott and he assured
me not to worry - that he would cancel the chargeback.  So I sent an email
asking that the request for UPS interception be cancelled - to the same
party to whom I had sent the email requesting the interception, requesting
that they disregard the request for an interception.  I then decided to
worry about the chargeback anymore and of course I thought that the
interception was now not going to happen.  Unfortunately, the interception
did occur - late today - I got the notice after 5PM.

After seeing these emails I called Scott and explained the whole situation
and apologized profusely for all the trouble that this has caused him.

*I'm working on getting a US version unit to him as quickly as possible and
he is aware of this.*

Those of you who are customers of Data Alliance know that we are very
straighforward and normally work like clockwork shipping orders the same
day - even orders as late as 4:30 or 5 normally are shipped that day.

Sincerely,

George Hardesty

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote:

 So... I really needed an Air Fiber for an important project that was time
 sensitive...

 Go to the UBNT tool and see who has stock, I very specifically put HAS TO
 BE US VERSION in the notes.

 George Hardesty from there emails me that his company Data-Alliance.net
 has them in stock.

 I send an email directly back to his, asking specifically, you have the US
 version in stock?  He emails back, yes he has verified that he has US
 version in stock.

 I buy it.  I wait a week.  It shows up and low and behold its the
 international version.  Woohoo, just wasted my time and money and project
 is not happening when I promised customer.  That should not have happened
 when I specifically asked twice for him to verify what I was buying before
 hand.

 It gets better.  Of course I had AMEX open chargeback on the purchase
 because I already lost time, money and possibly new customer on this
 inexcusable botched shipment.  I called George and let him know this and
 that I expected them to pay for shipping back as well because it was 100%
 his fault.  He then informs me he has the US version and can ship it out to
 fix my problem and will also include shipping label for the wrong air fiber
 return.  Great, seems reasonable - at least there is light at the end of
 the one week delay.   I get with AMEX and have them drop the dispute.   I
 get shipping label and return product to him after waiting in line at UPS
 (bad time of year to ship stuff).  George send me tracking info for new US
 air fiber (I had him double check again, before shipping the second time as
 you might imagine). Ok, I am assured everything is good and the correct
 part is now on its way.  Supposed to arrive today  I check tracking
 this evening because package never arrived, but hey, its baout xmas maybe
 they are working late?  Nope - Mr Hardesty called UPS and had the package
 returned to sender.  LOL  - seriously?

 Now I'm late on the project twice and customer thinks this is some sort of
 new hobby for me.  I'm not happy.  And I sure as heck won't make the
 mistake of ordering something from Data-Alliance.net again since they are
 obviously lacking integrity and competence in several departments.  I just
 can't believe after having discussed all this with him several times, and
 us both potentially having everything work out acceptably that he pulled
 this and didn't even bother to communicate with me so I could have at the
 very least saved another lost day.  Now I start over, third time...

 /End rant



 Scott Carullo
 Technical Operations
 855-FLSPEED x102




-- 
http://www.data-alliance.net
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Re: [WISPA] test

2012-11-12 Thread George Rogato

Patrick,

Your back with Alvarion, is this new?

George


On 11/6/2012 2:03 PM, Patrick Leary wrote:


test



 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals  
computer viruses(42).




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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

2012-08-10 Thread George Rogato


Maybe there will be a bounce.

There was a lot of shares short 46% and either the shorts will have to 
buy back to cover and take profits, or

they did and cushioned the sell off.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=UBNT+Key+Statistics

*Share Statistics

*Short % of Float (as of Jul 13, 2012)^3 :46.70%



On 8/10/2012 9:47 AM, Forbes Mercy wrote:

It's down to $8.88!

On 8/10/2012 7:04 AM, James Howard wrote:


The lower the price, the more shares they can buy back with the $100M 
repurchase.  That will also flush out some of the whiny investors who 
don't really have any faith in the company.


*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Brad Belton

*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2012 8:11 AM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

It will be interesting to watch today and Monday...that's for sure!  
They beat their earnings, warn about the effects of counterfeited 
product and announce they intend to take this opportunity to buy back 
$100M worth of shares.


Brad

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
mailto:[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes

*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2012 3:54 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Cc:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

Eh. I plan to reinvest heavily. The CEO is planning to purchase a ton 
of stock. Why wouldn't he want it to go low?



On Aug 10, 2012, at 0:19, George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.net 
mailto:wi...@oregonfast.net wrote:


After hours had a low of $6.90

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ubnt/after-hours

There was a lot of transactions.



On 8/9/2012 7:05 PM, Brad Belton wrote:

Agreed. I almost hit that $9ish range a week or so ago, but
my order was just a bit too late.  My stake in UBNT is very
small, but have been averaging down and it's been
entertaining at the very least to watch. Hoping to acquire a
few more shares tomorrow if the price is right!

Vegas or the stock market...almost the same entertainment
rush...lol

Brad

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Sam Tetherow
*Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 5:58 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

If you still have faith in the company, now is a good time to
buy down your cost basis.

On 08/09/2012 05:44 PM, Doug Clark wrote:

Have you ever had 100,000 barrels of oil that you purchased
at 110.00 per barrel that you are sitting on and then overnight

the price per barrel drops to 75.00 per barrel?  ON SALE
HUH??  ATT1

/---Original Message---/

*/From:/*Zach Mann mailto:zma...@gmail.com

*/Date:/*8/9/2012 4:45:42 PM

*/To:/*WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org

*/Subject:/*Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

Sweet! It's on sale...

On Aug 9, 2012 5:40 PM, Doug Clark d...@txox.com
mailto:d...@txox.com wrote:

I just suddenly got very illATT2

/---Original Message---/

*/From:/*Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net

*/Date:/*8/9/2012 4:31:54 PM

*/To:/*WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org

*/Subject:/*[WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

OUCH !

Anyone following this stuff...

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ubnt

--

Faisal Imtiaz

Snappy Internet  Telecom

7266 SW 48 Street

Miami, Fl 33155

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 tel:305%20663%205518%20x%20232

Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 tel:305%20663%205518 option 2 Email:
supp...@snappydsl.net mailto:supp...@snappydsl.net

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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News ...

2012-08-09 Thread George Rogato

  
  
After hours had a low of $6.90
  
  http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ubnt/after-hours
  
  There was a lot of transactions.
  
  
  
  On 8/9/2012 7:05 PM, Brad Belton wrote:


  
  
Agreed.
I almost hit that $9ish range a week or so ago, but my order
was just a bit too late. My stake in UBNT is very small,
but have been averaging down and its been entertaining at
the very least to watch. Hoping to acquire a few more
shares tomorrow if the price is right!

Vegas
or the stock marketalmost the same entertainment rushlol

Brad


  
From:
wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Sam
Tetherow
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 5:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price ..
News ...
  


If you still have faith in the company, now
  is a good time to buy down your cost basis.
  
  On 08/09/2012 05:44 PM, Doug Clark wrote: 

  

  

  

  Have
  you ever had 100,000 barrels of oil that you
  purchased at 110.00 per barrelthat you are
  sitting on and then overnight


  the
  price per barrel drops to75.00 per barrel?
  ON SALE HUH??


  


  

  


  

  
  

  
  

  ---Original
Message---


  


  
From:
Zach Mann
  
  
Date:
8/9/2012 4:45:42 PM
  
  
To:
WISPA
  General List
  
  
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity ... Stock Price .. News
...
  


  

Sweet!
It's on sale... 

  On
  Aug 9, 2012 5:40 PM, "Doug Clark" d...@txox.com
  wrote:
  

  

  

  

  
I
just suddenly got very
ill
  
  

  
  

  

  
  

  


  


  ---Original
Message---


  


  
From:
Faisal
  Imtiaz
  
  
Date:
8/9/2012 4:31:54 PM
   

Re: [WISPA] Wind Safety regulations for towers

2011-05-25 Thread George Rogato
On 5/24/2011 3:38 PM, Marco Coelho wrote:

 I caught one guy hanging upside down on a cranes heavy ball 300 ft up
 without safety straps  With OSHA on-site (but not looking thank
 God).  Fired him over the radio.

Got a picture of that?





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Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Short range backhaul

2010-01-30 Thread George Morris
Actually, we do Gino and have never had a problem.

The latest generation of MT gear is pretty near bulletproof if deployed
properly.

I suspect there are quite a few people here that run their businesses on
gear that you would turn you nose up at, so your condescension isn't really
necessary.

Yikes right back at ya.
George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Short range backhaul

Not to sound like a jerk, but who would trust they're main backbone feed
to a Mikrotik or Ubiquiti

Yikes! Please get something reliable like a Bridgewave or a Licensed DS3
Link!

Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
787.273.4143

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Fwd: Short range backhaul

Thanks for the suggestion. I will take a look and contact you off list.

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

 From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com
 Date: January 30, 2010 9:20:01 PM CST
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short range backhaul
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org


 We are a vendor member and a WISP.  On a short range, you should be  
 able
 to use this MT kit just fine.  We will support and configure it for  
 you
 for free if you wish.

 http://tinyurl.com/ydzrgfn

 WISPA Members get free assembly.

 Regards,
 Chuck Hogg
 Shelby Broadband
 502-722-9292
 ch...@shelbybb.com
 http://www.shelbybb.com


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 10:16 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short range backhaul

 The UBNT Rocket dish but at such short range, overkill.  Really, at  
 such
 a
 short hop even a bullet and a grid or the AirGrid would work it fine.

 Bob-


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 6:47 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Short range backhaul

 I have a pop across the street from one of my towers. The phone
 company there is giving me a great deal on bandwidth but I have to get
 it across to the tower. Any recommendations for something reliable at
 that range.

 Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [WISPA] fight over MikroTik certification AGAIN, was Wimax gear

2009-12-30 Thread George Morris
No kidding!

It sure would be nice if it stopped, or those involved had the courtesy to
mark these toxic threads with a fresh subject line.

We've been through an audit with MikroTik gear, passed clear as a bell. My
understanding is that FCC rules are very similar to IC rules so modular
certs in the US should work just fine.

George


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:19 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear

Here we go again.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Ralph
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:15 PM
To: e...@wisp-router.com; WISPA General List
Cc: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear

Go ahead and live the dream then, but please don't homebuild your own gear
and deploy it in any of my markets. We prefer certified products.

On Dec 30, 2009, at 8:10 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote:

 You can use MikroTik and be legal.

 Anyone say any different either don't understand the rules or checked 
 the approved certs or is just spreading FUD.

 /Eje
 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org
 Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:05:50
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Cc: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear

 We have successfuly used ubiquiti nano and power stations as injection 
 radios for numerous tripod and cisco mesh systems. No problems.  Of 
 course I have used canopy for it too- no real difference in the end 
 performance.

 Would not use Mikrotik for any RF due to our desire to stay legal.

 On Dec 30, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com wrote:

 I find these comparisons of products like Ubiquiti / Mikrotik vs.
 Motorola / WiMAX products to be somewhat unrealistic -- it seems to 
 me that it's like comparing something that's hypothetical and looks 
 good on paper and hoping that it will actually work

 Here's my question; sure, on paper, the new Ubiquiti WHATEVER will 
 give me a Gazillion Mbps with Beamforming and everything for $10 -- 
 but has anyone actually made this stuff work and scaled it into a 
 profitable business?

 Many of the WISPs that I've talked to who gone down this path have 
 had to upgrade / replace / retool their networks due to the fact that 
 these systems don't scale

 The one WISP that I know using Ubiquiti / Mikrotik with several 
 thousand customers is only using them as endpoints on a Bel-Air 
 Network Mesh infrastructure that they spent almost $1 million 
 building out

 It reminds me of the Asterisk vs. Broadsoft / Metaswitch VoIP debates 
 from a couple of years back -- sure, Asterisk was free
 while a Broadsoft platform had an entry cost of $250k, but I know of 
 tons of Broadsoft providers who support tens of thousands of 
 customers for hosted PBX, and the only guy I know doing it on 
 Asterisk ended up spending over $500k hiring a custom programming 
 team in Russia to rebuild the system for him from scratch (he was 
 joking to me that in hindsight, it would've been cheaper and a lot 
 easier to just buy a Broadsoft)

 I would like to be proven wrong here...so shoot =)

 -Charles



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Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas

2009-12-25 Thread George Morris
Haven't tried it personally, but my understanding is that combination should
work fine with the newer firmware. You would need to be up to at least 5.1
beta to get reliable .11a compatibility. 

I'm out in Victoria on the left coast for the holidays, won't be
experimenting with the new RCs when I get back as we have live customers on
the Rocket sectors today, but 5.1 RC3 should be better yet.

You need to go to the UBNT forums to get the latest firmware. Its on the
sticky threads in the M forums. The same version of M firmware is good for
all M products regardless of type.
http://www.ubnt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16984

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 10:48 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas

So I shouldnt have an issue connecting a BM5 in client mode to a B5 in AP
mode?

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 12:17 AM, George Morris
ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:

 AirMAX is controlled at the AP end only. The client defaults to 
 non-AirMAX unless it detects an AirMAX AP. Your posted link is about CSMA,
not TDMA.

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 9:12 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas

 Not finding that. See attached. Do you have version5? I note in the 
 ubnt forums says you cant disable it. Aslo attached. -RickG

 On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Robert West
 robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

  In the Advanced tab you'll see Enable AirMax. If it's not checked 
  then it's off.  If it's on, you won't even see the SSID of the newer 
  units from the old, at least I haven't been able to.  But I've been 
  connecting my older NS5's to the newer stuff with no problem but 
  I've only been using 20mhz channels.  Are you doing 20mhz or 10?  
  Try doing a plain vanilla config on both sides and see if you can
connect.
 
  Bob-
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  On Behalf Of RickG
  Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:27 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas
 
  Trying to get a bullet5 to connect to a Bullet5M. Not much luck. How 
  do you turn off TDMA? -RickG
 
  On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Robert West
  robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:
 
   I'm confused.  Will it connect to a AirGrid 5 or maybe a 
   NanoStation
 5M?
  
   The older Bullet 5 will connect to them but AirMax has to be 
   turned off because the older equipment doesn't support TDMA.
  
   Sucks.  I heard that the older could run TDMA but it's too much 
   for
  them
   to be stable. At least that's the story.
  
   Bob-
  
  
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
   [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
   On Behalf Of RickG
   Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:35 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas
  
   Will a Bullet5 connect to a B5M?
   -RickG
  
   On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Robert West
   robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:
  
Yep.  Those are gonna be the winner, as far as I'm concerned.  
And
  still
less than the 89 buck 1x bullet, no antenna.
   
   
   
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 1:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] BulletM antennas
   
The NanoBridge looks much more useful  2x2 MIMO, 22 dBi 
gain,
8*
  beam
width, 12 diameter.  I told them I'd pay up to $150 for 
something like this, and they MSRP it for $80.  Shipping in 
January.  Now they just
  need
to
   
announce the combo PoE injector, wifi AP, and switch that they 
said
  they
would.
   
The Bullets are only 1x1 MIMO (so not really MIMO at all) and 
will work with
   
anything.
   
   
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
   
   
   
--
From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:11 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BulletM antennas
   
 Yeah, they're just 1X MIMI, only one connector.  I use them 
 with Pac Wireless grids and stick Omni's.

 Did you see the new UBNT grids?  The same thing, really.  A 
 bullet
  with
   a
 feed horn stuffed through the hole of a grid.  Looks nifty, if 
 I can really bring myself to acknowledge that I said nifty.  
 The price of the
  whole
 thing, grid and radio, is less than just one bullet.

 Bob-





 -Original Message

Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas

2009-12-25 Thread George Morris
This is quite confusing that you have no control over AirMAX at the client
end. I'm more used to Nstreme where both ends have to be set the same.

Saying that, its really cool that you don't have to worry about the client,
just shift the AP in and out of AirMAX to suit and the client follows
automatically.

Its going to be very, very cool once this firmware becomes just a little
more mature.

We already have customers hanging off a Rocket sector / Nano 5M client that
are getting 36Mb symmetrical into a speedtest.net server in Montreal. The
big challenge now is to find an Internet speedtest server capable of
reliably delivering real readings to the customers. A nice problem to have.

Merry Christmas to all of you and a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year!!

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 10:48 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas

I tried it both ways but probably missed the settign when I had the BM5 in
AP mode. Will retry. Thanks! -RickG

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Robert West
robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

 If the Bullet 5M is in station mode then you won't have the AirMax 
 option, only if it's in AP mode.  So, if you are not in AP mode on the 
 5M then AirMax isn't an issue.  Have you tried setting the 5M as the 
 AP the NS5 as the client?  That's if you are doing this on the 
 bench..  :)  Make sure you have the firmware up to date on the NS5 
 as well.  All the ones I've been installing are the M5 as the AP.

 Bob-


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of RickG
  Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:12 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas

 Not finding that. See attached. Do you have version5? I note in the 
 ubnt forums says you cant disable it. Aslo attached. -RickG

 On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Robert West
 robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

  In the Advanced tab you'll see Enable AirMax. If it's not checked 
  then it's off.  If it's on, you won't even see the SSID of the newer 
  units from the old, at least I haven't been able to.  But I've been 
  connecting my older NS5's to the newer stuff with no problem but 
  I've only been using 20mhz channels.  Are you doing 20mhz or 10?  
  Try doing a plain vanilla config on both sides and see if you can
connect.
 
  Bob-
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  On Behalf Of RickG
  Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:27 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas
 
  Trying to get a bullet5 to connect to a Bullet5M. Not much luck. How 
  do you turn off TDMA? -RickG
 
  On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Robert West
  robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:
 
   I'm confused.  Will it connect to a AirGrid 5 or maybe a 
   NanoStation
 5M?
  
   The older Bullet 5 will connect to them but AirMax has to be 
   turned off because the older equipment doesn't support TDMA.
  
   Sucks.  I heard that the older could run TDMA but it's too much 
   for
  them
   to be stable. At least that's the story.
  
   Bob-
  
  
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
   [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
   On Behalf Of RickG
   Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:35 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas
  
   Will a Bullet5 connect to a B5M?
   -RickG
  
   On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Robert West
   robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:
  
Yep.  Those are gonna be the winner, as far as I'm concerned.  
And
  still
less than the 89 buck 1x bullet, no antenna.
   
   
   
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 1:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] BulletM antennas
   
The NanoBridge looks much more useful  2x2 MIMO, 22 dBi 
gain,
8*
  beam
width, 12 diameter.  I told them I'd pay up to $150 for 
something like this, and they MSRP it for $80.  Shipping in 
January.  Now they just
  need
to
   
announce the combo PoE injector, wifi AP, and switch that they 
said
  they
would.
   
The Bullets are only 1x1 MIMO (so not really MIMO at all) and 
will work with
   
anything.
   
   
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
   
   
   
--
From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:11 AM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BulletM antennas
   
 Yeah, they're just 1X MIMI, only one connector.  I use them

Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas

2009-12-24 Thread George Morris
AirMAX is controlled at the AP end only. The client defaults to non-AirMAX
unless it detects an AirMAX AP. Your posted link is about CSMA, not TDMA.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 9:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas

Not finding that. See attached. Do you have version5? I note in the ubnt
forums says you cant disable it. Aslo attached. -RickG

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Robert West
robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

 In the Advanced tab you'll see Enable AirMax. If it's not checked 
 then it's off.  If it's on, you won't even see the SSID of the newer 
 units from the old, at least I haven't been able to.  But I've been 
 connecting my older NS5's to the newer stuff with no problem but I've 
 only been using 20mhz channels.  Are you doing 20mhz or 10?  Try doing 
 a plain vanilla config on both sides and see if you can connect.

 Bob-


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:27 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas

 Trying to get a bullet5 to connect to a Bullet5M. Not much luck. How 
 do you turn off TDMA? -RickG

 On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Robert West
 robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

  I'm confused.  Will it connect to a AirGrid 5 or maybe a NanoStation 5M?
 
  The older Bullet 5 will connect to them but AirMax has to be turned 
  off because the older equipment doesn't support TDMA.
 
  Sucks.  I heard that the older could run TDMA but it's too much 
  for
 them
  to be stable. At least that's the story.
 
  Bob-
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
  On Behalf Of RickG
  Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:35 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] Bullet5 was BulletM antennas
 
  Will a Bullet5 connect to a B5M?
  -RickG
 
  On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Robert West
  robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:
 
   Yep.  Those are gonna be the winner, as far as I'm concerned.  And
 still
   less than the 89 buck 1x bullet, no antenna.
  
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
   [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
   Behalf Of Mike Hammett
   Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 1:58 AM
   To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BulletM antennas
  
   The NanoBridge looks much more useful  2x2 MIMO, 22 dBi gain, 
   8*
 beam
   width, 12 diameter.  I told them I'd pay up to $150 for something 
   like this, and they MSRP it for $80.  Shipping in January.  Now 
   they just
 need
   to
  
   announce the combo PoE injector, wifi AP, and switch that they 
   said
 they
   would.
  
   The Bullets are only 1x1 MIMO (so not really MIMO at all) and will 
   work with
  
   anything.
  
  
   -
   Mike Hammett
   Intelligent Computing Solutions
   http://www.ics-il.com
  
  
  
   --
   From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
   Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:11 AM
   To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] BulletM antennas
  
Yeah, they're just 1X MIMI, only one connector.  I use them with 
Pac Wireless grids and stick Omni's.
   
Did you see the new UBNT grids?  The same thing, really.  A 
bullet
 with
  a
feed horn stuffed through the hole of a grid.  Looks nifty, if I 
can really bring myself to acknowledge that I said nifty.  The 
price of the
 whole
thing, grid and radio, is less than just one bullet.
   
Bob-
   
   
   
   
   
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] BulletM antennas
   
Can you use regular antennas with BulletM radios?
-RickG
   
   
   
  
  
 
 

 --
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Re: [WISPA] Outdoor Rack

2009-12-06 Thread George Morris
Art Kelly at DCI is a good guy. They make all kinds of stuff, including
shelters and cabinets for cellcos. Very responsive.

Art Kelly
DCI Sales
Cell 847 840 5520
artkelly-at-divcon.net 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:24 PM
To: WISPA General List; motorola-us...@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Outdoor Rack

Does anyone know of a source for an outdoor rack for a tower site?
Need to put rack mount UPS, rack mount GigE switch, POE, batteries and
etc in it.

Matt




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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

2009-12-05 Thread George Morris
I think you're absolutely right. We don't see health care costs anywhere on
our paperwork up here in the frozen North (yes, it is snowing in the last
couple of days). We just pay higher taxes to cover it which is simply a fact
of life.

Everyone gets a health card that is just a different coloured drivers
license, literally. You show the card when you go for care.

It works pretty well, we don't worry about where we go for care as the card
is valid anywhere and everywhere, we just get on with the job.

Simple is good. I had a great health plan living in Florida, but boy was it
complicated working out what I could and could not do when it came to care.
And it changed from time to time and you had to work it out all over again.

As you say; get in and get it done, or get out.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 8:15 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

H..  I feel an increase in the use of the 1099 form would be
the easy answer.  I lived as a 1099 for many years.

I'm with you on your feelings of get all the way in or get all the way
out.  I'd prefer they get all the way in and just do it because, honestly,
it will happen in the end anyhow.  Why put it off and cause more suffering?
I know, politics doesn't belong here usually and I won't be hit like that
but it is an issue for some of us.  (And as far as I'm concerned they can
give gays marriage also and just get it the heck out of the way finally,
sheeesh!  Why should I be the only one to suffer through marriage???)

But the reality is that many companies are going to go to making who they
can a 1099 contractor and that's going to open up another can of left in the
sun worms.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:50 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] health insurance

Hi,

What are everyone else's plans if this new health insurance plan gets 
passed in Congress? We fall in the 25-100 employee category, so they are 
estimating our health insurance costs would go up $412 per employee for 
us (we already cover 100% of the costs for our employees). So, basically 
this would force us to go to a subcontractor type work-force (at least 
for 5-10 of our current employees) to get us under the 25 employee limit 
and offer less benefits for everyone in the company.

Once again, it seems our government is stepping in where it doesn't 
belong. Either take over the health care system 100% (including funding 
it), or leave it alone.

Travis
Microserv




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Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

2009-12-04 Thread George Morris
We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!!

Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are
running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot.

- No WDS
- Short preamble
- No Periodic calibration
- Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled
- Nstreme best fit only
- Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this.
- Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct
revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade)

George

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM
To: wireless
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable?

-Original Message-
From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] 
Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM
To: wireless
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running
4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the
problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the
v4.0beta releases anywhere?

-Original Message-
From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] 
Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best
software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all.

We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty
good,
but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the
release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO.

We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and
get a
rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result.

I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver
issues,
plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N
cards, or
UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning.

Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards
and
XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime.

PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run
Torch
or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better
on
the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra
performance is minimal for a major backhaul.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

At first I was like huh?  but thinking of the now and present, the
Rockets
are new and the longevity has yet to be tested.  I have both UBNT and MT
backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect.  My
UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up
and
forgotten about.  Sucks but that's how it is.  Not sure why that is,
maybe
Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll
hit
snags.  I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as
Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you
don't want to worry about, go with the MT.  I'd go one further with his
list
though and use the R52N cards.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

 

I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the
answer.
However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3
years
now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues.

Travis
Microserv

Jayson Baker wrote: 

(2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea
(2) RocketDish @ $145/ea
 
$470
 
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson  mailto:t...@ida.net
t...@ida.net wrote:
 
  

 I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the
regular
411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list:
 
2 x RB411
2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes
2 x PacWireless enclosures
2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice)
2 x pigtails
2 x LMR jumpers
2 x 18v PoE
 
Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz
channel
(or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel).
 
Travis
Microserv
 
 
Josh Luthman wrote:
 
If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in
20mhz.  Like 500 bucks in gear...
 
On 11/30/09, RickG  mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com
mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote

Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

2009-12-04 Thread George Morris
PtP for us. Never tried PtMP. 

But it did work slick, to the point I'm considering trying it again.

Nice to have fast 20MHz channels. We are having to use 40MHz now to achieve
the same performance...

The other bit worth mentioning is turning off the .11a data rates to force
the radios into N mode.

They can be a bit reluctant to shift into N modulations otherwise.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:47 AM
To: wireless
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

Nice. Thanks George. Was this just in a PTP environment or PTM also?

-Original Message-
From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] 
Sent: 04 December 2009 13:39
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!!

Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are
running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot.

- No WDS
- Short preamble
- No Periodic calibration
- Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled
- Nstreme best fit only
- Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this.
- Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct
revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade)

George

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM
To: wireless
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable?

-Original Message-
From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] 
Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM
To: wireless
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running
4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the
problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the
v4.0beta releases anywhere?

-Original Message-
From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] 
Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best
software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all.

We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty
good,
but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the
release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO.

We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and
get a
rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result.

I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver
issues,
plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N
cards, or
UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning.

Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards
and
XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime.

PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run
Torch
or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better
on
the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra
performance is minimal for a major backhaul.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

At first I was like huh?  but thinking of the now and present, the
Rockets
are new and the longevity has yet to be tested.  I have both UBNT and MT
backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect.  My
UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up
and
forgotten about.  Sucks but that's how it is.  Not sure why that is,
maybe
Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll
hit
snags.  I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as
Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you
don't want to worry about, go with the MT.  I'd go one further with his
list
though and use the R52N cards.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

 

I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the
answer.
However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3
years
now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues.

Travis
Microserv

Jayson Baker wrote: 

(2) Rocket5M

Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

2009-12-04 Thread George Morris
Longest was 30 miles, next longest was 23.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 11:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

What was the distance you guys were able to get on N with these?

Randy


George Morris wrote:
 We really like beta3. Had some links running 90 days, and it was fast!!

 Here is the cheat sheet specifically for beta3. Be careful if you are
 running something else, the cheat sheet varied a lot.

 - No WDS
 - Short preamble
 - No Periodic calibration
 - Nstreme on, but CSMA not disabled
 - Nstreme best fit only
 - Play with power levels until best results. Seems pretty picky on this.
 - Be sure the RouterBoard firmware (not just RouterOS) is the correct
 revision ( /system routerboard print and /system routerboard upgrade)

 George

  

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Paul Hendry
 Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:05 AM
 To: wireless
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

 Nice. Anyone out there know which of the beta releases seemed most stable?

 -Original Message-
 From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] 
 Sent: 04 December 2009 13:01
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

 http://files.quicklinkwireless.com/mikrotik

 Regards,
 Chuck Hogg
 Shelby Broadband
 502-722-9292
 ch...@shelbybb.com
 http://www.shelbybb.com


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Paul Hendry
 Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:26 AM
 To: wireless
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

 We saw the same thing with Mikrotik + N. 4 AP's out there now running
 4.1 (best of a bad bunch) in the hope the next release sorts some of the
 problems. I know this is a bit off topic but does anyone have the
 v4.0beta releases anywhere?

 -Original Message-
 From: George Morris [mailto:ghmor...@candlelight.ca] 
 Sent: 01 December 2009 15:35
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

 I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best
 software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all.

 We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty
 good,
 but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the
 release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO.

 We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and
 get a
 rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result.

 I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver
 issues,
 plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N
 cards, or
 UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning.

 Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards
 and
 XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime.

 PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run
 Torch
 or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better
 on
 the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra
 performance is minimal for a major backhaul.

 George 

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

 At first I was like huh?  but thinking of the now and present, the
 Rockets
 are new and the longevity has yet to be tested.  I have both UBNT and MT
 backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect.  My
 UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up
 and
 forgotten about.  Sucks but that's how it is.  Not sure why that is,
 maybe
 Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll
 hit
 snags.  I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as
 Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you
 don't want to worry about, go with the MT.  I'd go one further with his
 list
 though and use the R52N cards.

  

 Bob-

  

  

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

  

 I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the
 answer.
 However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3
 years
 now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Jayson Baker wrote: 

 (2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea
 (2) RocketDish @ $145/ea
  
 $470
  
 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson  mailto:t...@ida.net
 t...@ida.net wrote:
  
   

  I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the
 regular
 411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list:
  
 2 x RB411
 2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes
 2 x

Re: [WISPA] What buffoons..

2009-12-04 Thread George Morris
Good to see you're beating on him Mike. 

The original post and comments section are here:
http://www.fiberevolution.com/2009/12/whats-a-bandwidth-hog-.html#comments

Some of the comments are pretty well thought out.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:06 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] What buffoons..

http://www.benton.org/node/30268


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





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Re: [WISPA] What buffoons..

2009-12-04 Thread George Morris
All y'all ROCK. This is good stuff!

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:02 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What buffoons..

Thanks.  Couldn't hold it in.  Sometimes I have a bit of wisdom.
Eatmoresoap is my alter ego.  

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What buffoons..

Eatmoresoap hit the nail on the head!

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:56 PM, George Morris
ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:

 Good to see you're beating on him Mike.

 The original post and comments section are here:
 http://www.fiberevolution.com/2009/12/whats-a-bandwidth-hog-.html#comments

 Some of the comments are pretty well thought out.

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:06 PM
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] What buffoons..

 http://www.benton.org/node/30268


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




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Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

2009-12-01 Thread George Morris
I think the Rockets are going to be great, but right now today the best
software is a beta version of 5.1. That pretty much says it all.

We have pulled all our MikroTik N links back out. 4.0beta3 was pretty good,
but N wireless performance and stability took a real nosedive with the
release version of 4.0-4.2 IMHO.

We are back on XR-5s with either 20 or 40MHz channels for backhaul and get a
rock-solid 30-60Mbits as a result.

I don't see moving to anything else until MT resolves their N driver issues,
plus releases the new version of Nstreme that is compatible with N cards, or
UBNT completes their M series firmware tuning.

Not sure which will happen first, but with the AH series RouterBoards and
XR-5s we are sitting pretty in the meantime.

PS We think the AH boards are worth the extra money if you have to run Torch
or the Bandwidth Tester for troubleshooting. Both tools run much better on
the bigger processors, and the cost differential to get this extra
performance is minimal for a major backhaul.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:23 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

At first I was like huh?  but thinking of the now and present, the Rockets
are new and the longevity has yet to be tested.  I have both UBNT and MT
backhauls, love UBNT to no end but it's from the ease of use aspect.  My
UBNT needs to be taken care of from time to time, the MT is just put up and
forgotten about.  Sucks but that's how it is.  Not sure why that is, maybe
Ubiquiti seems to always be pushing the envelope so logically they'll hit
snags.  I'm a geek, I like the unknown so I put up with the snags but as
Travis said in a roundabout way, if you want stability and something you
don't want to worry about, go with the MT.  I'd go one further with his list
though and use the R52N cards.

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

 

I guess if you don't need a reliable, stable product, this is the answer.
However, I have MT backhaul links that have been up solid for over 3 years
now. No ethernet issues, no heat issues, no firmware issues.

Travis
Microserv

Jayson Baker wrote: 

(2) Rocket5M @ $90/ea
(2) RocketDish @ $145/ea
 
$470
 
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Travis Johnson  mailto:t...@ida.net
t...@ida.net wrote:
 
  

 I would agree. Except the 411ah is overkill in my testing, the regular
411 shows as much throughput as the 411ah. So, here's the list:
 
2 x RB411
2 x PacWireless 2ft dishes with radomes
2 x PacWireless enclosures
2 x wireless cards (XR5 would be my choice)
2 x pigtails
2 x LMR jumpers
2 x 18v PoE
 
Total cost would be less than $900 and would do 30Mbps in a 20mhz channel
(or 15Mbps in a 10mhz channel).
 
Travis
Microserv
 
 
Josh Luthman wrote:
 
If spectrum is available you can use a 411ah pair and get 30 megs in
20mhz.  Like 500 bucks in gear...
 
On 11/30/09, RickG  mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com
mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 Daniel, great questions!
 
Throughput: As fast as possible :) Seriously, a couple of megs minimum.
10Mbps would be plenty.
Dishes: As big as necessary. Naturally, on the tower I'll be limited by wind
loading. The other end is a solid water tank but I imagine the water company
wont like a 10' dish :)
Budget: $10k including tower.
Licensed or unlicensed. I'm open to either but my budget probably wont allow
licensed.
POE or?: No preference.
Noise floor: On 2.4GHz, -97. On 5GHz, -94.
Currently deploying: Ubiquiti CPE on Mikrotik AP's. Was Tranzeo's on
WRAP/StarOS.
Comfort level: I've got experience with almost everything mainstream.
 
Thanks! -RickG
 
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, 3-dB Networks  mailto:wi...@3-db.net
wi...@3-db.net  mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote:
 
 
 
 Depends...
 
What type of throughput do you need?  What size dishes can you use?  What
is
the budget?  Licensed or Unlicensed?  PoE or some other configuration?
 What
does the noise floor look like?  What type of equipment do you already
primarily use (i.e. what will you be the most comfortable deploying).
 
My recommendation would be based on the answer to all of those questions.
 
Daniel White
3-dB Networkshttp://www.3dbnetworks.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 20 mile link
 
Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer is
building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose must
work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions?
-RickG

Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers.... Needed for WISP related product...

2009-12-01 Thread George Morris
I think it's a fairly big project, although a lot of the fine work has been
done. I started drooling when reading the paper a few weeks ago.

It would be a kicker to have an open-source multi-platform TDMA
implementation. UBNT has encouraged open source firmware on their platforms
for a long time, and a RouterBoard implementation would be sweet.

Getting synch on backhaul links would be killer for example.

Unfortunately I wouldn't recognize FreeBSD if I tripped over it, so can't be
much help there.

George

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related product...

So does page 16 imply that a GPS system could be used?

It sounds like these new Atheros chipsets have TDMA hardware on them.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:19 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related product...

 I think what we're talking about is the TDMA package for Freebsd (which
 is probably exactly what is being used by UBNT).

 http://people.freebsd.org/~sam/TDMAPresentation-20090921.pdf

 Randywireless/




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Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

2009-11-25 Thread George Morris
We have two 120s up so far.

One thing to watch is they have quite a flat 'pancake' so vertical aiming is
important.

They also have 2* of electrical downtilt built in to the 19 and 20 dB, and
4* built in to the lower gain sectors.

A few people have been bitten by the downtilt who didn't realize it was
there...

George

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:22 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

Are you using many?  I'm about to put up some of the 120 degree 19dbi
sectors.  How high are you up with them and what sort of range are you
seeing?



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:07 PM
To: Paul Hendry; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

I dont want to speak for the person who started the thread sector 
question...

But I'm thrilled with the UBNT's Dual POl sector option.
I think the only problem is availabilty.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic


 Any reason the UBNT ones are not an option or is it just availability?

 -original message-
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic
 From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net
 Date: 25/11/2009 3:49 am

 yes they do for $1200. each :-(

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic


 Radiowaves does I believe
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:26:58
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 Arc wireless makes 20 and 23 db panels and pacwireless makes a 2 and 3
 foot
 solid dish w/dual polarity.

 Does ANYONE make dual pol sectors for 5 ghz besides UBNT, whose antennas
 are
 made of 99 44/100 % pure unobtanium?



 --
 From: Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:12 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 Anybody have a suggestion for a 5.8 Ghz Grid Parabolic, Dual Polarity, 
 24
 to
 30 dB?

 Phil





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Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

2009-11-25 Thread George Morris
No improvement yet, but we need to re-aim before we can tell. 

The pattern is so flat you really need a client out there to tune against
when you install, and we didn't have one at the time. Now I know better...
Doing it again, we would buy the lower gain sectors instead to get a fatter
pancake. Also easier to mount and less wind load.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:21 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

Okay, thanks.  I read a post from one guy who had to actually do an uptilt
due to the downtilt of the thing.  Are you seeing any improvement over what
you were using before?



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of George Morris
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:55 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

We have two 120s up so far.

One thing to watch is they have quite a flat 'pancake' so vertical aiming is
important.

They also have 2* of electrical downtilt built in to the 19 and 20 dB, and
4* built in to the lower gain sectors.

A few people have been bitten by the downtilt who didn't realize it was
there...

George

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:22 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

Are you using many?  I'm about to put up some of the 120 degree 19dbi
sectors.  How high are you up with them and what sort of range are you
seeing?



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:07 PM
To: Paul Hendry; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

I dont want to speak for the person who started the thread sector 
question...

But I'm thrilled with the UBNT's Dual POl sector option.
I think the only problem is availabilty.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic


 Any reason the UBNT ones are not an option or is it just availability?

 -original message-
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic
 From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net
 Date: 25/11/2009 3:49 am

 yes they do for $1200. each :-(

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic


 Radiowaves does I believe
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:26:58
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 Arc wireless makes 20 and 23 db panels and pacwireless makes a 2 and 3
 foot
 solid dish w/dual polarity.

 Does ANYONE make dual pol sectors for 5 ghz besides UBNT, whose antennas
 are
 made of 99 44/100 % pure unobtanium?



 --
 From: Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:12 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 Anybody have a suggestion for a 5.8 Ghz Grid Parabolic, Dual Polarity, 
 24
 to
 30 dB?

 Phil





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Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

2009-11-25 Thread George Morris
We're doing 5. 2.4 up here is pretty much unusable.

BTW, we're seeing some big improvements in 5.1 beta. Not quite there yet,
but much better.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:37 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

Ah!  Good advice.  I was going to order up some more of the 19's but I was
going to grab some of the lower gain also.  I think I'll take your lesson to
heart and get the lower gain only and see what my differences are before
putting more jack in the 19's.  Makes sense to me.  Are you doing 2.4 or 5?



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of George Morris
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:29 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

No improvement yet, but we need to re-aim before we can tell. 

The pattern is so flat you really need a client out there to tune against
when you install, and we didn't have one at the time. Now I know better...
Doing it again, we would buy the lower gain sectors instead to get a fatter
pancake. Also easier to mount and less wind load.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:21 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

Okay, thanks.  I read a post from one guy who had to actually do an uptilt
due to the downtilt of the thing.  Are you seeing any improvement over what
you were using before?



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of George Morris
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:55 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

We have two 120s up so far.

One thing to watch is they have quite a flat 'pancake' so vertical aiming is
important.

They also have 2* of electrical downtilt built in to the 19 and 20 dB, and
4* built in to the lower gain sectors.

A few people have been bitten by the downtilt who didn't realize it was
there...

George

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:22 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

Are you using many?  I'm about to put up some of the 120 degree 19dbi
sectors.  How high are you up with them and what sort of range are you
seeing?



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:07 PM
To: Paul Hendry; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

I dont want to speak for the person who started the thread sector 
question...

But I'm thrilled with the UBNT's Dual POl sector option.
I think the only problem is availabilty.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic


 Any reason the UBNT ones are not an option or is it just availability?

 -original message-
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic
 From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net
 Date: 25/11/2009 3:49 am

 yes they do for $1200. each :-(

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic


 Radiowaves does I believe
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:26:58
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 Arc wireless makes 20 and 23 db panels and pacwireless makes a 2 and 3
 foot
 solid dish w/dual polarity.

 Does ANYONE make dual pol sectors for 5 ghz besides UBNT, whose antennas
 are
 made of 99 44/100 % pure unobtanium?



 --
 From: Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:12 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 Anybody have a suggestion for a 5.8 Ghz Grid Parabolic, Dual Polarity, 
 24
 to
 30 dB?

 Phil





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Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

2009-11-25 Thread George Morris
We consider the 120s to be equivalent to 'conventional' 90s and plan
accordingly. 

I don't like the -6dB rating, it gives a false impression.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:40 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

I can see your point with the pattern.  I'm trying to do 5ghz on the new
installs so there is plenty of space for 90 degree sectors at 20Mhz.  I was
being cheap, trying to save a few bucks on 120's!  Change of plans  Next
order, lower gain and 90 degrees to see what results I get.

Thanks guys.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:06 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

I believe all of their sectors do.  I complained to them about that.

19 dBi at 120* seems way to hot...  meaning it'll be vertically too thin of 
a pattern.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:16 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 Always seems to be the problem when UBNT come out with new kit. Demand far

 out weighs supply :(

 Anyone else notice the 19db 120' figures are based on 6db rather than 3db?

 -original message-
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic
 From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
 Date: 25/11/2009 9:22 am

 Are you using many?  I'm about to put up some of the 120 degree 19dbi
 sectors.  How high are you up with them and what sort of range are you
 seeing?



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:07 PM
 To: Paul Hendry; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 I dont want to speak for the person who started the thread sector
 question...

 But I'm thrilled with the UBNT's Dual POl sector option.
 I think the only problem is availabilty.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic


 Any reason the UBNT ones are not an option or is it just availability?

 -original message-
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic
 From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net
 Date: 25/11/2009 3:49 am

 yes they do for $1200. each :-(

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: lakel...@gbcx.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic


 Radiowaves does I believe
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:26:58
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 Arc wireless makes 20 and 23 db panels and pacwireless makes a 2 and 3
 foot
 solid dish w/dual polarity.

 Does ANYONE make dual pol sectors for 5 ghz besides UBNT, whose antennas
 are
 made of 99 44/100 % pure unobtanium?



 --
 From: Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:12 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Grid Parabolic

 Anybody have a suggestion for a 5.8 Ghz Grid Parabolic, Dual Polarity,
 24
 to
 30 dB?

 Phil





 
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Re: [WISPA] 802.3af POE to Passive POE

2009-11-25 Thread George Morris
Yes, you can.

Ubiquiti has such a device. It takes 802.3af from a switch, and converts it
to 16V regular passive PoE at the top of the tower.

http://www.ubnt.com/products/8023af.php
http://ubnt.com/downloads/instant8023af.pdf

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 802.3af POE to Passive POE

The answer is no you can't, however there are units that will run those
types of devices.  They don't have the switch built in, so its a
mid-span injector.  

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of rwf
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:20 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] 802.3af POE to Passive POE

Anyone know of a gizmo that will allow a 12-15VDC device that is
normally
powered by passive poe (Pins 4/5 and 7/8 like UBNT and many of the
others
use) to be run from a port on a POE Ethernet switch (802.3af)

Please tell me about it if you do.

Thanks

Ralph





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Re: [WISPA] 5.6 GHZ?

2009-11-20 Thread George Morris
Its part of 5.4. In Canada, you have to stay out of 5600-5650 due to weather
radar, suspect the US may be much the same...

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 5.6 GHZ?

My new MIMO radios have 5.6 GHZ on them, I don't recall that frequency
being available in the US.  Is it?

Forbes




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Re: [WISPA] Need a new AP

2009-11-19 Thread George Morris
Mike put up a bit of info about what's on the way in 5.1 on DSLR. Appears we
are getting close to seeing a beta.

Features that are in 5.1:

- DynamicACK is rewritten with many improvements.

- Full 802.11abg support

- Full Encryption support (WEP, WPA/WPA2 AES/TKIP ect)

- ACK Removal for Point to Point links

- AutoRate selection Algorithm is rewritten.

- New Web server for the software

and a lot more.

The Beta should be on the forum tommorow and the best part is the software
will be free.

Mike

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of AJ
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:21 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a new AP

Hahaha Gmail ads came up with this firmware as I was reading this thread:

http://www.fireserve.com/products/ubiquiti/bullet-m-firmware.php

chop
*Adds 802.11-compatible encryption modes
*The stock Ubiquiti firmware only supports WPA-AES encryption.  Our firmware
adds support for 64-bit and 128-bit WEP, WPA-TKIP and WPA2-TKIP.
/chop


Pretty spendy for just a single unit...

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote:

 In that case, use a MikroTik RB411R.
 Integrated radio, and MT can do various encryptions you need.

 Sorry, I overlooked that part of the request.

 On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:16 PM, pat p...@inlandnet.com wrote:

  Bullet M2's won't do WEP until the release of firmware version 5.1 which
  has been in just a couple of weeks for at least the last two months.
 
 
 
  Jayson Baker wrote:
   UBNT Bullet M2?
  
   On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 2:59 PM, pat p...@inlandnet.com wrote:
  
  
   I have one small group on an old Cisco Aironet 350, which only does
   802.11b.
  
   1)  I want to have at least a b/g mix, n capable a bonus.
  
   2)  Must support WEP encryption, but be able to handle a mix of WEP
 and
   WPA simultaneously.  (WEP for legacy clients that I haven't upgraded)
  
   3)  Must play nice with Tranzeo CPQ and CPE200.
  
   You input is helpful.
  
   TIA,
  
   Pat
  
  
  
  
  
 



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Re: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet

2009-11-18 Thread George Morris
We've had excellent results with these. Cheap, powerful and reliable.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom Sharples
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet

http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d13.htm

- Original Message - 
From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:33 PM
Subject: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet



 Looking for an x86 compatible board of some kind with at least 3 or 
 (better)
 more ethernet ports.

 Anyone have suggestions?

 Needs to have enough cpu power to route full 100m ethernet speed.gigE
 would be even better.

 I've not found such a beast... but I need one where there's no ac power, 
 no
 climate control...








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Re: [WISPA] MikroTik N- 52 Mbits in a 20MHz channel

2009-11-15 Thread George Morris
Quite similar to the Pac dishes, although the mounts/hardware may be a
little more robust. We are particularly impressed with the dual-pol
performance. Seems like cross-pol isolation is pretty good.
 
A bit less impressed with the RPSMA connectors, but we bought a bunch of
LMR-240 pigtails to get back to N-Male so its not an issue.
 
George

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 10:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MikroTik N- 52 Mbits in a 20MHz channel


Hi,

How similar are the Rocketdishes compared with the PacWireless dishes? We
have over 100 of the Pac dishes, so I am just wondering how they compare as
far as mounting, build, alignment, etc.?

Travis
Microserv





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Re: [WISPA] Anyone else wish for this?

2009-11-15 Thread George Morris
A 411AH with a built-in N radio in a nice plastic case would be great!

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone else wish for this?

Don't care about the web interface, but a device to replace the
Dlink/Linksys/etc devices that is a routerboard+routerOS would be amazing.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
--- Albert Einstein


On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 10:09 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

 Something like the MT RB750 but with 802.11n. Top it off with an easier
web
 interface which would make basic setup as a home router/AP simple for the
 uninitiated. I'm thinking something of quality with the power of a
RouterOS
 level 4 license to compete with the crappy dlink/linksys/netgear consumer
 grade router/APs.

 With the current MT lineup if one does this piecemeal they have to start
 with a routerboard with way more ethernet ports and three wireless card
 slots and you still have to add the case, power supply, wireless card and
 antennas and it ends up being pricey.

 Greg




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Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps over 10 miles

2009-11-14 Thread George Morris
I'm with you on this.

We have 30 mile links running 40MHz channels half-duplex with Nstreme on
411AH/XR-5s that run a rock solid 65Mbits TCP and 75Mbits UDP. That's
without Nstreme dual, just regular old Nstreme half duplex.

Getting closer brings the speeds up quite a bit.

We saw some stunning results on RouterOS 4.0-beta3 on close-in links using
Nstreme. It was possible to get 200Mbits-plus on a pair of RB600s talking to
each other. Unfortunately we've seen performance degrade steadily with
builds newer than beta3, to the point where we're moving all our N stuff
back onto 3.30/.11a radios, at least until Nstreme is sorted out and
reliable with N, which may be a while coming...

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jayson Baker
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 12:25 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps over 10 miles

Why 30 surprise you?  We have a very old Nstreme-Dual link going about 1
mile and it has been getting 90Mbps w/ 1ms latency for YEARS.
90% of the problem with MikroTik is that people have no idea how to use it.
 You don't just plug it in and go.  We spent about 3 years learning,
tweaking, deploying and testing.

Anyway, to answer your question, yes the 1mile 180Mbps link is using R52N
card, and Nstreme.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Josh Luthman
j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote:

 With the 180meg 1 mile link - I assume that is also r5(2)n?  Are you doing
 N
 or nstreme?

 I'm surprised to see anything 30 megs when it comes to Mikrotik.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
 --- Albert Einstein


 On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
 wrote:

  Yes, 40MHz.
 
  We have a pair of RB333's that go about 1 mile, and get around 180Mbps.
   Too
  bad they only have 100Mbps Ethernet.
 
  On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Josh Luthman
  j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote:
 
   120 megs through one pair of r52n?!  I'm assuming this is 40mhz?
  
   Josh Luthman
   Office: 937-552-2340
   Direct: 937-552-2343
   1100 Wayne St
   Suite 1337
   Troy, OH 45373
  
   The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
   --- Albert Einstein
  
  
   On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
   wrote:
  
I think we get something in the range of 120Mbps through a pair of
   MikroTik
411's and R52N wireless cards with 3' PacWireless dishes at 12
miles.
120Mbps on the wireless.  Those boards only have 100Mbps Ethernet,
so
that's
a limiting factor.
   
Total cost: $1000
   
If you're concerned that MT isn't reliable enough, spend $2000 and
  put
   up
2 completely diverse links.
Though, we have some MT's that have been in service since 2004 and
 are
still
cranking away without issue.
   
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 5:57 PM, my_em...@webjogger.net 
my_em...@webjogger.net wrote:
   
 Looking to setup a 100Mbps or more link over 10 miles distance.

 Anyone have comments about what brand they think is good and
  reliable?

 It can be either licensed or unlicensed.

 So far I'm looking at Exalt, Trango, and Dragonwave, but do know
  which
 to choose.

 Thanks,

 --
 Jon Roux
 Webjogger Internet Services
 http://www.webjogger.net
 845.757.4000






   
  
 



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Re: [WISPA] MikroTik configuration for 65 Mbits TCP, was 100Mbps over 10 miles

2009-11-14 Thread George Morris
Nothing complicated. This link is 48.23 Kilometres.

Just using Nstreme with polling, exact size 3200.

The key seems to be clean spectrum, a decent signal level (about -57 in this
particular case), and a 411AH/XR-5 to get enough horsepower.

We are running 3.30 Wireless Test. The Wireless Test package helps a LOT.

There is roughly 4Mbits of background traffic running across this link in
addition to the bandwidth test numbers below.

Hope this helps. I'm very interested in how we can make this even faster!!!
George

Here is the output for UDP:
 tool bandwidth-test 10.9.50.1
status: running
  duration: 41s
rx-current: 73.3Mbps
  rx-10-second-average: 73.4Mbps
  rx-total-average: 66.9Mbps
  lost-packets: 29
   random-data: no
 direction: receive
   rx-size: 1500

/interface monitor-traffic wlan1
  rx-packets-per-second: 6151
rx-drops-per-second: 0
   rx-errors-per-second: 0
 rx-bits-per-second: 74.4Mbps
  tx-packets-per-second: 22
tx-drops-per-second: 0
   tx-errors-per-second: 0
 tx-bits-per-second: 39.7kbps


Here is the output for TCP:
  tool bandwidth-test 10.9.50.1 protocol=tcp tcp-connection=20
status: running
  duration: 53s
rx-current: 61.6Mbps
  rx-10-second-average: 61.6Mbps
  rx-total-average: 61.4Mbps
   random-data: no
 direction: receive

 /interface monitor-traffic wlan1
 rx-packets-per-second: 5779
rx-drops-per-second: 0
   rx-errors-per-second: 0
 rx-bits-per-second: 64.4Mbps
  tx-packets-per-second: 1033
tx-drops-per-second: 0
   tx-errors-per-second: 0
 tx-bits-per-second: 655.5kbps

Configuration for the AP side of this link:
/interface wireless
set 0 ack-timeout=dynamic adaptive-noise-immunity=ap-and-client-mode \
allow-sharedkey=no antenna-gain=0 antenna-mode=ant-a area= arp=enabled
\
band=5ghz-turbo basic-rates-a/g=6Mbps burst-time=disabled comment= \
compression=no country=canada default-ap-tx-limit=0 \
default-authentication=yes default-client-tx-limit=0
default-forwarding=\
yes dfs-mode=none disable-running-check=no disabled=no \
disconnect-timeout=3s frame-lifetime=0 frequency=5760 frequency-mode=\
manual-txpower hide-ssid=no hw-fragmentation-threshold=disabled \
hw-protection-mode=none hw-protection-threshold=0 hw-retries=15 l2mtu=\
2290 mac-address=00:15:6D:64:15:xx max-station-count=2007 mode=ap-bridge
\
mtu=1500 name=wlan1 noise-floor-threshold=default on-fail-retry-time=\
100ms periodic-calibration=default periodic-calibration-interval=60 \
preamble-mode=both proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25 radio-name=\
xxx rate-set=configured scan-list=default \
security-profile=default ssid=xxx station-bridge-clone-mac=\
00:00:00:00:00:00 supported-rates-a/g=\
6Mbps,9Mbps,12Mbps,18Mbps,24Mbps,36Mbps,48Mbps,54Mbps tx-power=18 \
tx-power-mode=card-rates update-stats-interval=disabled wds-cost-range=\
50-150 wds-default-bridge=none wds-default-cost=100 wds-ignore-ssid=no \
wds-mode=disabled wmm-support=enabled

/interface wireless nstreme
set wlan1 comment= disable-csma=no enable-nstreme=yes enable-polling=yes \
framer-limit=3200 framer-policy=exact-size
  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 10:31 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps over 10 miles

I believe you but I want to know how to do it :)

On 11/14/09, George Morris ghmor...@candlelight.ca wrote:
 I'm with you on this.

 We have 30 mile links running 40MHz channels half-duplex with Nstreme on
 411AH/XR-5s that run a rock solid 65Mbits TCP and 75Mbits UDP. That's
 without Nstreme dual, just regular old Nstreme half duplex.

 Getting closer brings the speeds up quite a bit.

 We saw some stunning results on RouterOS 4.0-beta3 on close-in links using
 Nstreme. It was possible to get 200Mbits-plus on a pair of RB600s talking
to
 each other. Unfortunately we've seen performance degrade steadily with
 builds newer than beta3, to the point where we're moving all our N stuff
 back onto 3.30/.11a radios, at least until Nstreme is sorted out and
 reliable with N, which may be a while coming...

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jayson Baker
 Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 12:25 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps over 10 miles

 Why 30 surprise you?  We have a very old Nstreme-Dual link going about 1
 mile and it has been getting 90Mbps w/ 1ms latency for YEARS.
 90% of the problem with MikroTik is that people have no idea how to use
it.
  You don't just plug it in and go.  We spent about 3 years learning,
 tweaking, deploying and testing.

 Anyway, to answer your question, yes the 1mile 180Mbps link is using R52N
 card, and Nstreme

Re: [WISPA] Nearly 200 Mbit MikroTik link, was 100Mbps over 10 miles

2009-11-14 Thread George Morris
Chuck, that's certainly true with single stream TCP, but on these high
capacity links who is really saturating them with a single stream?

Please not that my tests with 20-stream TCP are pretty close to equal to UDP
tests, and I suggest that 20 streams or more is a reasonable approximation
of real-world traffic.

Of course that doesn't come close to the thousands of connections with
varying packet sizes running over a normal pipe, but we don't have the tools
to simulate that.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 12:04 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nearly 200 Mbit MikroTik link, was 100Mbps over 10
miles

When I discuss results, I always present the results using TCP not UDP.
Many times the TCP traffic is usually less (sometimes 30%+ less) than
the UDP tests.  

Jayson are you also basing your tests on UDP?  

I have multiple links that perform similar on UDP as well...I think you
will find though that more of your traffic is TCP and that is a major
impact on the performance of the link.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of George Morris
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:21 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nearly 200 Mbit MikroTik link, was 100Mbps over 10
miles

OK, this isn't going to help much with the how, but if you're interested
I can probably dig up the configuration.

The limiting factor here was the RB411. If we had been using an AH I
suspect it would have been a lot faster.

You need really, really, good signal levels to make this work, and
virtually zero interference. That combination is problematic.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 10:31 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps over 10 miles

I believe you but I want to know how to do it :)

On 11/14/09, George Morris ghmor...@candlelight.ca wrote:
 I'm with you on this.

 We have 30 mile links running 40MHz channels half-duplex with Nstreme 
 on 411AH/XR-5s that run a rock solid 65Mbits TCP and 75Mbits UDP. 
 That's without Nstreme dual, just regular old Nstreme half duplex.

 Getting closer brings the speeds up quite a bit.

 We saw some stunning results on RouterOS 4.0-beta3 on close-in links 
 using Nstreme. It was possible to get 200Mbits-plus on a pair of 
 RB600s talking
to
 each other. Unfortunately we've seen performance degrade steadily with

 builds newer than beta3, to the point where we're moving all our N 
 stuff back onto 3.30/.11a radios, at least until Nstreme is sorted out

 and reliable with N, which may be a while coming...

 Georgewireless/




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Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps over 10 miles

2009-11-13 Thread George Morris
It sure is. If ya got the bucks, Exalt or Dragonwave would be my first
choices. 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 8:04 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps over 10 miles

that is a broad question with many possible answers. what is your budget

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2009, at 4:58 PM, my_em...@webjogger.net
my_em...@webjogger.net 
  wrote:

 Looking to setup a 100Mbps or more link over 10 miles distance.

 Anyone have comments about what brand they think is good and reliable?

 It can be either licensed or unlicensed.

 So far I'm looking at Exalt, Trango, and Dragonwave, but do know which
 to choose.

 Thanks,

 -- 
 Jon Roux
 Webjogger Internet Services
 http://www.webjogger.net
 845.757.4000




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Re: [WISPA] Nano Sation 2

2009-11-12 Thread George Morris
Good thing its not the Nano Station 5Ms, you would still be waiting for the
firmware upgrade to actually be able to use them long after the boat finally
arrives once the pirates finally let it go.

Seems like promises, promises for now.

George Morris
Candlelight
866-924-0530 Direct 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:50 PM
To: n...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nano Sation 2

I heard the boat was held up for some reason in Somalia, AYE MATEY :)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Nick Olsen
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nano Sation 2

Where from?
Or was this a case of Nick not being able to detect internet sarcasm.

Nick Olsen
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x106




From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:10 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nano Sation 2

The boat has arrived..!  Shesh  I was able to order so 
much
that now I have to find a way to hide it from the wife.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Data Technology
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:38 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nano Sation 2

I think they need a bigger boat!!

Robert West wrote:
 Yeah, but I call them by a different name,
 Microtik411RS2CardPacGridOutdoorEnclosure.   It's gotten to the point 
that
 my substitute for the NS2 has actually become in use more than what
it
has
 been substituted for.  *sigh*

 Word has it they're on the boat.  Always on the boat.

 Bob-
  

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Steve Barnes
 Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:25 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Nano Sation 2

 Need NS2's anyone have them?



 Steve Barnes
 Manager
 PCS-WINhttp://www.pcswin.com/
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Servicehttp://www.rcwifi.com/

 Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
experience
of
 trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, 
ambition
 inspired, and success achieved.
 - Helen Keller


 _
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Lists
 Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:47 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: [WISPA] Thank You for Your Service!


 I know that many WISPs are Veterans.  I think the business of being a 
WISP
 sort of attracts the vets.  It is the business of going where no one
has
 gone before, making it work and storming the path.

 I want to say, Thank you for your Service and it was an honor to
serve!
 To all you USMC vets, Semper Fi!

 God bless,
 Victoria Proffer  - President/CEO
 StLouisBroadband.comhttp://stlbroadband.com/
 ShowMeBroadband.comhttp://showmebroadband.com/
 Rural Missouri Wireless Project.
 314.974.5600 * Fax 573.747.4756
 Follow us on Twitter.com @stlbroadband
 SBA Certified WOSB
   File: ATT1.c 







   OLE Object: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) 







 
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Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-09 Thread George Morris
Canada. Ontario specifically. We have a lot of overlap in equipment and
bands, but very little overlap in regulatory affairs. 3.65 and 5.4 are the
only areas that are somewhat similar that have come up for rulemaking
recently (at least that I recall).

TV whitespace is completely different, and we have access to 3.5 as a
licensed band too.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

What country are you in George?
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: George Morris ghmor...@candlelight.ca
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing


 Amen. It would be a very handy thing to maintain that list of speedtest
 servers centrally somewhere, perhaps within WISPA.

 We don't belong to WISPA because its FCC centric which really doesn't help
 us much. Much of the dues go to getting the FCC to move in a given 
 direction
 which isn't of much direct help for Canadian WISPs.

 If we had some services of this kind that were maintained by the WISPA
 team/members that would change my mind in a heartbeat.

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike
 Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

 I have (hopefully) all the speedtest ips in the allow list.  They run
 speedtest real fast, but download video for an hour and it will
 throttle you.  Find those speedtest IPs and let em run.  Perception
 is everything.  Give them the perception they get that all the time.

 Mike

 At 12:25 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and they are
great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business of 
shared
bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back to 
proper
ratios. When you do the numbers properly, it doesnt make financial sense.

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
 wrote:

  Not everyone uses 6Mbps all day long.
 
  On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:52 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Thats one way to utilize bandwidth shaping but how do you  
   guaranteed
   minimum of 1.5Mbps, 4Mbps and
   6Mbps at those low rates to every use and make money? Maybe I'm 
   wrong
  but
   the problem I see is that you will end up having unhappy subscribers
 when
   their expectations are not met. Thats where the premium rates can 
   come
  in.
   I
   find people all the time who would pay more for committed speeds if 
   it
  can
   be delivered.
  
   BTW: Cricket Communications, subsidiary of Leap Wireless has lost
 money
   since its inception and continues to do so. Give me an example of an
   non-subsidized all you can eat service company in a competitive
 market
   that actually makes money (bottom line).
  
  
   On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
   wrote:
  
Ya know, we've looked at this many times over the past couple 
years,
  and
even tested it for a bit.
   
Fact is, people like unlimited, and not having to guess.  I, 
myself,
   being
a
fairly lite user of the Internet, would still always opt for an
  unlimited
plan--even if I knew my bill may be lower on a pay-per-use plan.  I
  have
unlimited cell phone minutes, txt messages, etc.  If I could pay 
for
unlimited utilites, I'd certainly do that too!
   
We've got the infrastructure in place for a pay-per-use, and could
   activate
it at anytime.  We tried selling it about a year ago, and people
 just
didn't
understand the concept.  People aren't used to it--most people got
  online
when Internet was $19.95/mo for dialup (or, $22.95 for AOL!), and
 don't
remember the 10 for $10 dial-up packages.  Nobody knows what ISDN
 with
   300
hours is.
   
We currently offer 12Mbps service for $24.95/mo.  This makes us the
   fastest
in the area, and the cheapest.  We have local sales, support and
installations.  We decided the way to win is to shape traffic--we
 offer
three 12Mbps packages; one with a guaranteed minimum of 1.5Mbps,
 4Mbps
   and
6Mbps.  If you do nothing than browse, share pictures, etc. (i.e.
  normal
use) you'll always see the 12Mbps.  But once you fire up a torrent
 or
Netflix, you only get that speed for 10 minutes--after that, you 
get
  your
guaranteed minimum.  Prices double from 1.5 to 4, and double again
  going
   to
6Mbps.  We have never had a complaint about speed or price with 
this
structure.
   
I'm hoping that the big guys do go to pay-per-use plans.  Just 
one
  more
way we can advertise and win against them.  Tired of counting your
  bits
and
bytes?  We're

Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-08 Thread George Morris
Rick, there is a heck of a range of technology out there as you know.
Anything from the old Alvarion hoppers to the new stuff using N from
Ubiquiti and Mikrotik + dog. 

It isn't the same game anymore, provided you can get your Internet pipe(s)
at a reasonable price.

Guaranteed bandwidth from a WISP is certainly do-able now, and the numbers
I've seen in this thread are on the low side. Have you played with the new
stuff that can actually deliver 100Mbits per AP? Its stunning. There are
still some rough edges in both the firmware and certification, but this is
the future. QoS is still an issue of course, the customer will eat whatever
we can give them and then some...

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:25 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and they are
great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business of shared
bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back to proper
ratios. When you do the numbers properly, it doesnt make financial sense.

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote:

 Not everyone uses 6Mbps all day long.

 On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:52 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

  Thats one way to utilize bandwidth shaping but how do you  guaranteed
  minimum of 1.5Mbps, 4Mbps and
  6Mbps at those low rates to every use and make money? Maybe I'm wrong
 but
  the problem I see is that you will end up having unhappy subscribers
when
  their expectations are not met. Thats where the premium rates can come
 in.
  I
  find people all the time who would pay more for committed speeds if it
 can
  be delivered.
 
  BTW: Cricket Communications, subsidiary of Leap Wireless has lost money
  since its inception and continues to do so. Give me an example of an
  non-subsidized all you can eat service company in a competitive market
  that actually makes money (bottom line).
 
 
  On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
  wrote:
 
   Ya know, we've looked at this many times over the past couple years,
 and
   even tested it for a bit.
  
   Fact is, people like unlimited, and not having to guess.  I, myself,
  being
   a
   fairly lite user of the Internet, would still always opt for an
 unlimited
   plan--even if I knew my bill may be lower on a pay-per-use plan.  I
 have
   unlimited cell phone minutes, txt messages, etc.  If I could pay for
   unlimited utilites, I'd certainly do that too!
  
   We've got the infrastructure in place for a pay-per-use, and could
  activate
   it at anytime.  We tried selling it about a year ago, and people just
   didn't
   understand the concept.  People aren't used to it--most people got
 online
   when Internet was $19.95/mo for dialup (or, $22.95 for AOL!), and
don't
   remember the 10 for $10 dial-up packages.  Nobody knows what ISDN with
  300
   hours is.
  
   We currently offer 12Mbps service for $24.95/mo.  This makes us the
  fastest
   in the area, and the cheapest.  We have local sales, support and
   installations.  We decided the way to win is to shape traffic--we
offer
   three 12Mbps packages; one with a guaranteed minimum of 1.5Mbps, 4Mbps
  and
   6Mbps.  If you do nothing than browse, share pictures, etc. (i.e.
 normal
   use) you'll always see the 12Mbps.  But once you fire up a torrent or
   Netflix, you only get that speed for 10 minutes--after that, you get
 your
   guaranteed minimum.  Prices double from 1.5 to 4, and double again
 going
  to
   6Mbps.  We have never had a complaint about speed or price with this
   structure.
  
   I'm hoping that the big guys do go to pay-per-use plans.  Just one
 more
   way we can advertise and win against them.  Tired of counting your
 bits
   and
   bytes?  We're unlimited  Look at Cricket wireless--they've just
 exploded
   with customers on their unlimited-everything service.
  
   Just my 2 cents
  
   Jayson
  
   On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote:
  
 The cellular guys don't charge by the minute... I have an unlimited
  plan
on my cell phone. I can also get unlimited text and internet access
 for
$9.95/mo extra.
   
People don't want to guess what their internet bills are going to be
  from
month to month. Would you want that at your own home?
   
Travis
Microserv
   
   
Gary Garrett wrote:
   
You sound like the cell phone company.
I am convinced the big failure in my business model is I charge by
 the
month while the cellular guys charge by the minute.
   
   
Travis Johnson wrote:
   
   
 Hi,
   
You are talking about having to add additional resources (radius,
 etc.)
to track it. Then you have to bill it. Then you get to deal with the
phone calls from users that say My computer wasn't even turned

Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-08 Thread George Morris
Rick, I'm not nearly brave enough to claim this is going to handle all our
future needs, but from what I've see so far its going to help a lot over the
next 2-3 years.

We've been playing with both the Ubiquiti stuff and the MikroTik stuff for
many months now and we're encouraged that there is a future here.

We need 5.4 certification, and we need to alter our business model for the
Urban stuff to create cells that are no more than a couple of miles radius.
We need to identify service areas with enough customer density to justify
fibre close to the tower, but isolated enough that 5.x, particularly 5.4, is
not going to be overrun in the next few years. There is no doubt that N is
more sensitive to interference, at least that is the indication we have from
our trials. No such thing as a free lunch I suspect, just like usual.

We already have decent Internet fibre prices that will allow a
Gigabit-capable tower in a high density area. I understand that everyone has
a different environment to compete in, but ours is perhaps unusual in that
the Cablecos and Telcos are introducing some pretty draconian bandwidth caps
in their post-modern effort to stay profitable without investing in fibre to
the premises. This appears to give us an opportunity to circumvent the
traditional last mile and take the fight directly to the enemy.

Couldn't even have dreamed about this a year ago, but now its looking
frighteningly reasonable as a strategy.

We do need to figure out how to do QoS properly at high bandwidths, we've
been a bit cavalier about that in the past. Once you get up to a realistic
10Mbit or more to the customer on any kind of large scale deployment I think
the rules of the game change. Everything you're working with gets bigger,
faster and a lot more expensive on the back office end although the front
end tower-related costs stay around the levels we are used to. We're going
to have to learn a lot about that in a hurry.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

George, I have not played with the N stuff. Mostly because I need to upgrade
my towers. That is in the plans. Which is where this discussion s
originating from. Anytime I spend money, I have to confirm it is worthwhile
and will represent an ROI.  Yes, bandwidth is coming down ever so slowly
(here anyways).
So, what your saying is that the new equipment + lower bandwidth costs will
handle all of our future needs?

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM, George Morris
ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:

 Rick, there is a heck of a range of technology out there as you know.
 Anything from the old Alvarion hoppers to the new stuff using N from
 Ubiquiti and Mikrotik + dog.

 It isn't the same game anymore, provided you can get your Internet pipe(s)
 at a reasonable price.

 Guaranteed bandwidth from a WISP is certainly do-able now, and the numbers
 I've seen in this thread are on the low side. Have you played with the new
 stuff that can actually deliver 100Mbits per AP? Its stunning. There are
 still some rough edges in both the firmware and certification, but this is
 the future. QoS is still an issue of course, the customer will eat
whatever
 we can give them and then some...

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:25 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

 No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and they are
 great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business of
shared
 bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back to
proper
 ratios. When you do the numbers properly, it doesnt make financial sense.

 On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
 wrote:

  Not everyone uses 6Mbps all day long.
 
  On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:52 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Thats one way to utilize bandwidth shaping but how do you  guaranteed
   minimum of 1.5Mbps, 4Mbps and
   6Mbps at those low rates to every use and make money? Maybe I'm wrong
  but
   the problem I see is that you will end up having unhappy subscribers
 when
   their expectations are not met. Thats where the premium rates can come
  in.
   I
   find people all the time who would pay more for committed speeds if it
  can
   be delivered.
  
   BTW: Cricket Communications, subsidiary of Leap Wireless has lost
money
   since its inception and continues to do so. Give me an example of an
   non-subsidized all you can eat service company in a competitive
 market
   that actually makes money (bottom line).
  
  
   On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
   wrote:
  
Ya know, we've looked at this many times over the past couple years,
  and
even tested it for a bit

Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-08 Thread George Morris
Amen. It would be a very handy thing to maintain that list of speedtest
servers centrally somewhere, perhaps within WISPA.

We don't belong to WISPA because its FCC centric which really doesn't help
us much. Much of the dues go to getting the FCC to move in a given direction
which isn't of much direct help for Canadian WISPs.

If we had some services of this kind that were maintained by the WISPA
team/members that would change my mind in a heartbeat.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

I have (hopefully) all the speedtest ips in the allow list.  They run 
speedtest real fast, but download video for an hour and it will 
throttle you.  Find those speedtest IPs and let em run.  Perception 
is everything.  Give them the perception they get that all the time.

Mike

At 12:25 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and they are
great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business of shared
bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back to proper
ratios. When you do the numbers properly, it doesnt make financial sense.

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
wrote:

  Not everyone uses 6Mbps all day long.
 
  On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:52 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Thats one way to utilize bandwidth shaping but how do you  guaranteed
   minimum of 1.5Mbps, 4Mbps and
   6Mbps at those low rates to every use and make money? Maybe I'm wrong
  but
   the problem I see is that you will end up having unhappy subscribers
when
   their expectations are not met. Thats where the premium rates can come
  in.
   I
   find people all the time who would pay more for committed speeds if it
  can
   be delivered.
  
   BTW: Cricket Communications, subsidiary of Leap Wireless has lost
money
   since its inception and continues to do so. Give me an example of an
   non-subsidized all you can eat service company in a competitive
market
   that actually makes money (bottom line).
  
  
   On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
   wrote:
  
Ya know, we've looked at this many times over the past couple years,
  and
even tested it for a bit.
   
Fact is, people like unlimited, and not having to guess.  I, myself,
   being
a
fairly lite user of the Internet, would still always opt for an
  unlimited
plan--even if I knew my bill may be lower on a pay-per-use plan.  I
  have
unlimited cell phone minutes, txt messages, etc.  If I could pay for
unlimited utilites, I'd certainly do that too!
   
We've got the infrastructure in place for a pay-per-use, and could
   activate
it at anytime.  We tried selling it about a year ago, and people
just
didn't
understand the concept.  People aren't used to it--most people got
  online
when Internet was $19.95/mo for dialup (or, $22.95 for AOL!), and
don't
remember the 10 for $10 dial-up packages.  Nobody knows what ISDN
with
   300
hours is.
   
We currently offer 12Mbps service for $24.95/mo.  This makes us the
   fastest
in the area, and the cheapest.  We have local sales, support and
installations.  We decided the way to win is to shape traffic--we
offer
three 12Mbps packages; one with a guaranteed minimum of 1.5Mbps,
4Mbps
   and
6Mbps.  If you do nothing than browse, share pictures, etc. (i.e.
  normal
use) you'll always see the 12Mbps.  But once you fire up a torrent
or
Netflix, you only get that speed for 10 minutes--after that, you get
  your
guaranteed minimum.  Prices double from 1.5 to 4, and double again
  going
   to
6Mbps.  We have never had a complaint about speed or price with this
structure.
   
I'm hoping that the big guys do go to pay-per-use plans.  Just one
  more
way we can advertise and win against them.  Tired of counting your
  bits
and
bytes?  We're unlimited  Look at Cricket wireless--they've just
  exploded
with customers on their unlimited-everything service.
   
Just my 2 cents
   
Jayson
   
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote:
   
  The cellular guys don't charge by the minute... I have an
unlimited
   plan
 on my cell phone. I can also get unlimited text and internet
access
  for
 $9.95/mo extra.

 People don't want to guess what their internet bills are going to
be
   from
 month to month. Would you want that at your own home?

 Travis
 Microserv


 Gary Garrett wrote:

 You sound like the cell phone company.
 I am convinced the big failure in my business model is I charge by
  the
 month while the cellular guys charge by the minute.


 Travis Johnson wrote:


  Hi,

 You

Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-08 Thread George Morris
WISPA appears to be American WISP-centric Ralph. How many members are based
outside the USA?

What does WISPA do for non-American WISPs other than run a very good public
mailing list that provides some decent discussion on the business in general
terms?

Please take a look at the WISPA web site and list 1 thing on it that is of
specific benefit for a WISP outside the US?

What percentage of WISPA membership dues are spent on efforts to influence
the FCC?

I'm not saying any of this is bad, just that the value equation is not the
same if you are not based in the US.

George

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Ralph
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:49 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

Wisps is wisp-centric. There is no excuse not to support your  
organization.

On Nov 8, 2009, at 4:08 PM, George Morris ghmor...@candlelight.ca  
wrote:

 Amen. It would be a very handy thing to maintain that list of  
 speedtest
 servers centrally somewhere, perhaps within WISPA.

 We don't belong to WISPA because its FCC centric which really  
 doesn't help
 us much. Much of the dues go to getting the FCC to move in a given  
 direction
 which isn't of much direct help for Canadian WISPs.

 If we had some services of this kind that were maintained by the WISPA
 team/members that would change my mind in a heartbeat.

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Mike
 Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

 I have (hopefully) all the speedtest ips in the allow list.  They run
 speedtest real fast, but download video for an hour and it will
 throttle you.  Find those speedtest IPs and let em run.  Perception
 is everything.  Give them the perception they get that all the time.

 Mike

 At 12:25 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
 No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and  
 they are
 great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business  
 of shared
 bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back  
 to proper
 ratios. When you do the numbers properly, it doesnt make financial  
 sense.

 On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com
 wrote:

 Not everyone uses 6Mbps all day long.

 On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:52 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thats one way to utilize bandwidth shaping but how do you   
 guaranteed




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Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-07 Thread George Morris
Rick, I don't think its up to Netflix to pay us. They in turn would have to
raise their prices which would further complicate things.

We need to make sure we get a fair price from our customers that reflects
our costs and hopefully profits.

So the customer pays Netflix and us for the movie they downloaded.

We are moving very quickly to usage based billing too btw.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

In the past, l worked for two electric companies. Their business models were
dependant on meters. As far as internet access, Compuserve and AOL had the
right idea from the start. Instead entrepanuers took advantage of their
weakness at the time. What we are now seeing is the downside of the
$50/month all you can eat business model. When usage was low due to less
apps, it worked fine but were now seeing exponential growth of usage.
Besides that, one thing we (ISP's) are really missing, are agreements
between each other for payment of access to our networks. For instance, the
phone companies pay each other for access to each others networks. I realize
this is very complex but shouldnt Netflix (or their provider) pay us for
utilziation of our networks?
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.comwrote:

 I do agree with you and that works if there are other options.  One
 customer who was downloading 160G, came from DSL and moved into this
 neighborhood and now wants high speed where we are the only option.  It
 is only a matter of time before others are using Netflix and others.
 They come in all gaming consoles now.  Why not have the customers pay
 for upgrades?  If there is a high demand for services, the demand drives
 growth; or fees stifle demand.

 Maybe my logic is flawed, but if 5% of the customer base is straining
 the network, shouldn't they pay more?

 Eric

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Travis Johnson
 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:22 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

 10% of your customers will use 90% of your resources. Direct that 10%
 customer base to cable or DSL and stop worrying about adding complexity
 to your network.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Chuck Profito wrote:
  Marlon does this and smiles every time he signs a Bandwidth Hog!
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
  Behalf Of Eric Rogers
  Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:56 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] Metered Billing
 
  We are on the verge of changing to a metered or tiered billing
 structure
  with Caps that once they exceed the cap; it doesn't shut off, but they
  get charged the overage.  Netflix is getting out of control and I
 don't
  want to punish the customers that only use it occasionally.  I think
  they are very innovative solutions and don't want to hinder new
  applications.  I just want people that download 160 GB in a month,
 when
  the average is nearly 10 GB a month, to pay their share for expanding
  the network.
 
 
 
  Who has dabbled in the metered/tiered services and what were your
  customers responses?
 
  What are your tiers?
 
  Have attitudes changed toward your company as being greedy?
 
 
 
  We already have everything in place to do it, just need to send out
 the
  letter saying we are doing it and why.
 
 
 
  Eric Rogers
 
  Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 
  (317) 831-3000 x200
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
  
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-07 Thread George Morris
Rick, did you have a self-serve portal where your customers could check
ongoing usage?

We are implementing IPtrack, same as Marlon. Brandon will build a
self-service portal for us.

We are also going to implement something called 'Moonlighting', where we
don't count bandwidth from Midnight to 6am in an effort to move some heavy
traffic onto the dead period on our network.

Makes tiered pricing easier to swallow...

What I would really like to do is allow a speed increase at the same time,
to give people a taste of our more advanced services.

Unfortunately I have no idea how to make that happen in a PPPoE environment
without forcing people to disconnect and re-login.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

Travis, I was operating on the premise that you said to send them to DSL or
cable.
Even with that, I did not have that experience. We sent the invoices out
with a copy of their usage report and it was rarely, if ever questioned.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote:

  And deal with the extra phone calls each month from customers that claim
 they didn't use that much. :(

 Travis
 Microserv

 RickG wrote:

 Many of you know this is not that hard. Back in 1997 I had an Allot box
that
 gave me the numbers. All I did was pull the report and bill accordingly.
The
 hard part would be integrating it with a billing system so it does it
 automatically.  -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com
ecrog...@precisionds.comwrote:



  We are on the verge of changing to a metered or tiered billing structure
 with Caps that once they exceed the cap; it doesn't shut off, but they
 get charged the overage.  Netflix is getting out of control and I don't
 want to punish the customers that only use it occasionally.  I think
 they are very innovative solutions and don't want to hinder new
 applications.  I just want people that download 160 GB in a month, when
 the average is nearly 10 GB a month, to pay their share for expanding
 the network.



 Who has dabbled in the metered/tiered services and what were your
 customers responses?

 What are your tiers?

 Have attitudes changed toward your company as being greedy?



 We already have everything in place to do it, just need to send out the
 letter saying we are doing it and why.



 Eric Rogers

 Precision Data Solutions, LLC

 (317) 831-3000 x200







 WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/





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Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-07 Thread George Morris
That's interesting. So in theory we could just script a 'flicker' at the APs
at Midnight, and another 'flicker' at 6am to get the settings to change at
the client...

Good idea! Thanks Josh.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:41 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

In PPPOE you should be able to just kill the connection and the client
should reestablish a moment afterward.  I know it works this way with MT
PPPOE server/client.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
--- Albert Einstein


On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:38 PM, George Morris
ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:

 Rick, did you have a self-serve portal where your customers could check
 ongoing usage?

 We are implementing IPtrack, same as Marlon. Brandon will build a
 self-service portal for us.

 We are also going to implement something called 'Moonlighting', where we
 don't count bandwidth from Midnight to 6am in an effort to move some heavy
 traffic onto the dead period on our network.

 Makes tiered pricing easier to swallow...

 What I would really like to do is allow a speed increase at the same time,
 to give people a taste of our more advanced services.

 Unfortunately I have no idea how to make that happen in a PPPoE
environment
 without forcing people to disconnect and re-login.

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:33 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

 Travis, I was operating on the premise that you said to send them to DSL
or
 cable.
 Even with that, I did not have that experience. We sent the invoices out
 with a copy of their usage report and it was rarely, if ever questioned.
 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote:

   And deal with the extra phone calls each month from customers that
claim
  they didn't use that much. :(
 
  Travis
  Microserv
 
  RickG wrote:
 
  Many of you know this is not that hard. Back in 1997 I had an Allot box
 that
  gave me the numbers. All I did was pull the report and bill accordingly.
 The
  hard part would be integrating it with a billing system so it does it
  automatically.  -RickG
 
  On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com
 ecrog...@precisionds.comwrote:
 
 
 
   We are on the verge of changing to a metered or tiered billing
structure
  with Caps that once they exceed the cap; it doesn't shut off, but they
  get charged the overage.  Netflix is getting out of control and I don't
  want to punish the customers that only use it occasionally.  I think
  they are very innovative solutions and don't want to hinder new
  applications.  I just want people that download 160 GB in a month, when
  the average is nearly 10 GB a month, to pay their share for expanding
  the network.
 
 
 
  Who has dabbled in the metered/tiered services and what were your
  customers responses?
 
  What are your tiers?
 
  Have attitudes changed toward your company as being greedy?
 
 
 
  We already have everything in place to do it, just need to send out the
  letter saying we are doing it and why.
 
 
 
  Eric Rogers
 
  Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 
  (317) 831-3000 x200
 
 
 
 
 



 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 



 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 



 
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  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 
 



 
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Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-07 Thread George Morris
Yup. I used to work for Bell Mobility in Toronto in the business systems
side. We had a standing joke that a telco is a billing system surrounded by
a few phone lines. 

A good few years ago some telcos, Cinci Bell springs to mind, actually
generated more profits from renting out their billing systems and expertise
than they made from phone service.

Its pretty easy to overcomplicate the billing arrangements if you're not
careful.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

I mostly agree, it was really just a thought. But, to support my argument
for I point to the telco agreements where they exchange fees for each others
networks. At any rate, it will probably never happen. With that said, the
end user always pays, its just a matter of how. I'm just searching for a
proper way for them to pay for their services. It just became more difficult
in the entitlement mentality world where people think everything should be
free. On a positive note, at least bandwidth is getting cheaper.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:34 PM, George Morris
ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:

 Rick, I don't think its up to Netflix to pay us. They in turn would have
to
 raise their prices which would further complicate things.

 We need to make sure we get a fair price from our customers that reflects
 our costs and hopefully profits.

 So the customer pays Netflix and us for the movie they downloaded.

 We are moving very quickly to usage based billing too btw.

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:26 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

 In the past, l worked for two electric companies. Their business models
 were
 dependant on meters. As far as internet access, Compuserve and AOL had the
 right idea from the start. Instead entrepanuers took advantage of their
 weakness at the time. What we are now seeing is the downside of the
 $50/month all you can eat business model. When usage was low due to less
 apps, it worked fine but were now seeing exponential growth of usage.
 Besides that, one thing we (ISP's) are really missing, are agreements
 between each other for payment of access to our networks. For instance,
the
 phone companies pay each other for access to each others networks. I
 realize
 this is very complex but shouldnt Netflix (or their provider) pay us for
 utilziation of our networks?
 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com
 wrote:

  I do agree with you and that works if there are other options.  One
  customer who was downloading 160G, came from DSL and moved into this
  neighborhood and now wants high speed where we are the only option.  It
  is only a matter of time before others are using Netflix and others.
  They come in all gaming consoles now.  Why not have the customers pay
  for upgrades?  If there is a high demand for services, the demand drives
  growth; or fees stifle demand.
 
  Maybe my logic is flawed, but if 5% of the customer base is straining
  the network, shouldn't they pay more?
 
  Eric
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
  Behalf Of Travis Johnson
  Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:22 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
 
  10% of your customers will use 90% of your resources. Direct that 10%
  customer base to cable or DSL and stop worrying about adding complexity
  to your network.
 
  Travis
  Microserv
 
  Chuck Profito wrote:
   Marlon does this and smiles every time he signs a Bandwidth Hog!
  
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  On
   Behalf Of Eric Rogers
   Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:56 AM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: [WISPA] Metered Billing
  
   We are on the verge of changing to a metered or tiered billing
  structure
   with Caps that once they exceed the cap; it doesn't shut off, but they
   get charged the overage.  Netflix is getting out of control and I
  don't
   want to punish the customers that only use it occasionally.  I think
   they are very innovative solutions and don't want to hinder new
   applications.  I just want people that download 160 GB in a month,
  when
   the average is nearly 10 GB a month, to pay their share for expanding
   the network.
  
  
  
   Who has dabbled in the metered/tiered services and what were your
   customers responses?
  
   What are your tiers?
  
   Have attitudes changed toward your company as being greedy?
  
  
  
   We already have everything in place to do it, just need to send out
  the
   letter saying we are doing it and why.
  
  
  
   Eric Rogers
  
   Precision Data

Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-07 Thread George Morris
Very good point Josh, it would be unfortunately to have a pro-consumer
initiative backfire because of a flaky implementation.

I need to think on this some more. It may be enough to start with just to
ignore bandwidth used during the Moonlighting window.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

That would work.  The only thing you'd need to test is the clients you're
using.  It would be up to the client to sense being disconnected and attempt
a (re?)connection.

You can charge them for that but then you have to worry about customers
getting itchy F-U fingers.  The DSL/Cable/alternative guys don't do this to
me!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
--- Albert Einstein


On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:58 PM, George Morris
ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:

 That's interesting. So in theory we could just script a 'flicker' at the
 APs
 at Midnight, and another 'flicker' at 6am to get the settings to change at
 the client...

 Good idea! Thanks Josh.

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:41 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

 In PPPOE you should be able to just kill the connection and the client
 should reestablish a moment afterward.  I know it works this way with MT
 PPPOE server/client.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
 --- Albert Einstein


 On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:38 PM, George Morris
 ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:

  Rick, did you have a self-serve portal where your customers could check
  ongoing usage?
 
  We are implementing IPtrack, same as Marlon. Brandon will build a
  self-service portal for us.
 
  We are also going to implement something called 'Moonlighting', where we
  don't count bandwidth from Midnight to 6am in an effort to move some
 heavy
  traffic onto the dead period on our network.
 
  Makes tiered pricing easier to swallow...
 
  What I would really like to do is allow a speed increase at the same
 time,
  to give people a taste of our more advanced services.
 
  Unfortunately I have no idea how to make that happen in a PPPoE
 environment
  without forcing people to disconnect and re-login.
 
  George
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
  Behalf Of RickG
  Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:33 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
 
  Travis, I was operating on the premise that you said to send them to DSL
 or
  cable.
  Even with that, I did not have that experience. We sent the invoices out
  with a copy of their usage report and it was rarely, if ever questioned.
  -RickG
 
  On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote:
 
And deal with the extra phone calls each month from customers that
 claim
   they didn't use that much. :(
  
   Travis
   Microserv
  
   RickG wrote:
  
   Many of you know this is not that hard. Back in 1997 I had an Allot
box
  that
   gave me the numbers. All I did was pull the report and bill
 accordingly.
  The
   hard part would be integrating it with a billing system so it does it
   automatically.  -RickG
  
   On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com
  ecrog...@precisionds.comwrote:
  
  
  
We are on the verge of changing to a metered or tiered billing
 structure
   with Caps that once they exceed the cap; it doesn't shut off, but they
   get charged the overage.  Netflix is getting out of control and I
don't
   want to punish the customers that only use it occasionally.  I think
   they are very innovative solutions and don't want to hinder new
   applications.  I just want people that download 160 GB in a month,
when
   the average is nearly 10 GB a month, to pay their share for expanding
   the network.
  
  
  
   Who has dabbled in the metered/tiered services and what were your
   customers responses?
  
   What are your tiers?
  
   Have attitudes changed toward your company as being greedy?
  
  
  
   We already have everything in place to do it, just need to send out
the
   letter saying we are doing it and why.
  
  
  
   Eric Rogers
  
   Precision Data Solutions, LLC
  
   (317) 831-3000 x200
  
  
  
  
  
 
 



  
   WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
  
  
 
 



  
  
   WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

2009-11-07 Thread George Morris
Problem with this initiative is that I have nothing to really compare it
with except what the unholy duopoly is doing today.

We've been doing the traditional WISP thing for about eight years now, but
Urban Gorilla is aimed at the throats of the cablecos/telcos in small/medium
towns here. They seem to be busy shooting themselves in the foot with
ever-lower caps, high prices and lousy outsourced customer service, so we're
going to help them along their chosen path to damnation.

Strategy is max two wireless hops from fibre, small cell sizes, N access
points, low oversubscription ratios and reasonable pricing tiers.

On top of that I'm looking for USPs to help potential customers have a
reason to change.

We're going to do the usual stuff, free install, couple of months free
evaluation, 100% satisfaction guarantee, reasonable prices, big caps. 

Its taken us three years to get fibre prices to the point this makes sense
financially, and we have N access points that work in 5GHz, so we're now
concentrating on getting the rest of the ducks lined up and marching nicely
in neat little rows.

George

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:41 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

As they say YMMV. Really its all dependent on your local market. Back in
'97, there was no DSL or cable. So, I had a monopoly and the only
alternative was to get a T1 at $3500/month. It was an easy sell.
There are a lot of great thinkers on this list. They'll help keep you clean
:)
 -RickG

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 3:17 PM, George Morris
ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:

 Very good point Josh, it would be unfortunately to have a pro-consumer
 initiative backfire because of a flaky implementation.

 I need to think on this some more. It may be enough to start with just to
 ignore bandwidth used during the Moonlighting window.

 George

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:06 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

 That would work.  The only thing you'd need to test is the clients you're
 using.  It would be up to the client to sense being disconnected and
 attempt
 a (re?)connection.

 You can charge them for that but then you have to worry about customers
 getting itchy F-U fingers.  The DSL/Cable/alternative guys don't do this
to
 me!

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
 --- Albert Einstein


 On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:58 PM, George Morris
 ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:

  That's interesting. So in theory we could just script a 'flicker' at the
  APs
  at Midnight, and another 'flicker' at 6am to get the settings to change
 at
  the client...
 
  Good idea! Thanks Josh.
 
  George
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
  Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:41 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
 
  In PPPOE you should be able to just kill the connection and the client
  should reestablish a moment afterward.  I know it works this way with MT
  PPPOE server/client.
 
  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
 
  The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
  --- Albert Einstein
 
 
  On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:38 PM, George Morris
  ghmor...@candlelight.cawrote:
 
   Rick, did you have a self-serve portal where your customers could
check
   ongoing usage?
  
   We are implementing IPtrack, same as Marlon. Brandon will build a
   self-service portal for us.
  
   We are also going to implement something called 'Moonlighting', where
 we
   don't count bandwidth from Midnight to 6am in an effort to move some
  heavy
   traffic onto the dead period on our network.
  
   Makes tiered pricing easier to swallow...
  
   What I would really like to do is allow a speed increase at the same
  time,
   to give people a taste of our more advanced services.
  
   Unfortunately I have no idea how to make that happen in a PPPoE
  environment
   without forcing people to disconnect and re-login.
  
   George
  
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
   Behalf Of RickG
   Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:33 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
  
   Travis, I was operating on the premise that you said to send them to
 DSL
  or
   cable.
   Even with that, I did not have that experience. We sent the invoices
 out
   with a copy of their usage report and it was rarely, if ever
 questioned.
   -RickG
  
   On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Travis Johnson t

Re: [WISPA] BBS'n

2009-08-24 Thread George Rogato
When we took over the old Windows to Infinity  BBS - ISP it was running 
Excalibur.

My earliest achievement that made me so proud, was when we took the last 
Excalibur customer off the BBS and moved them over to our portmasters 
and killed that BBS.



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Re: [WISPA] Gettin sick of Microtik

2009-08-24 Thread George Rogato
How in gods name do you guys stay in business if you still haven't found 
a stable platform that you know how to configure.

I'm just amazed.




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Re: [WISPA] Looking for antenna/enclosure - help

2009-07-31 Thread George Rogato
I've seen those posted on one of these lists. Exactly the same as 
trango. From the same manufacturer. I think they are in Israel.
Can't remember the url or company, but I'm thinking it was an overseas 
wireless distributor that had them.
Anyways, hope that helps.

George



Scott Carullo wrote:
 I'd like to find an antenna/case (like the arc wireless enclosure with 
 antenna / rootenna / DCE-ANT cases etc..) that has a larger beamwidth 
 horizontally.  Most of the ones I have found are 22deg or less.
 
 Basically I'd like to emulate a Trango 5580ap antenna pattern.  It would be 
 nice to have a compact antenna/enclosure combo with a nice wide 60deg or so 
 beamwidth and having dual polarity would be added bonus.
 
 Anyone know where I can find one of these?
 
 What are you all doing, external sector antennas?  I hate to go back to 
 running LMR again :)
 
 Scott Carullo
 Brevard Wireless
 321-205-1100 x102
 
 
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Verify Link Analysis

2009-07-17 Thread George Rogato


Scott Reed wrote:
 Does anyone have a easy, inexpensive way to test a link before a tower 
 is built?  RadioMobile link analysis says I can get backhaul to the 
 potential location, but in my area trees are always a challenge.  I 
 would like to test it now, while the trees are full, before I commit the 
 money to build a tower.  I am looking at a 120' ANWireless tower, so I 
 need to be able to test at 100+ feet.
 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x4000
Cell: 260-273-7239


Scott

I noticed in your signature that it says GAB Midwest.

Who is GAB Midwest?

Thanks
George




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Re: [WISPA] Verify Link Analysis

2009-07-17 Thread George Rogato
I have a 10'red balloon that we used to float a few years back for tower 
siting purposes.

I wasn't able get too much equipment on that balloon and expect it to float.

I tried it with an old map2 with rubber ducky and cat5 as the line and 
the balloon had a hard time rising.

The calculation is 1 gram of weight to 1 liter of helium.

You have to take into consideration the weight of the balloon and the 
weight of the rope. Cat is heavier than tether line.

Good news is, a set of binoculars lets you at least spot it which is 
what we ended up doing.

George






Robert West wrote:
 I used to use those 7 ft. helium balloons as advertising when I had another
 business years ago.  They had pretty good lift!  Sounds like a good idea.
 Not sure how you could test a full speed link with a dish but an Omni could
 be put on it with a Mikrotik 411 board.  Then you could use cat5 riser cable
 to tether it.  At least you could see a signal that way.  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Aaron D. Osgood
 Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 9:51 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verify Link Analysis
 
 Balloon
 --Original Message--
 From: George Rogato
 Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 To: WISPA General List
 ReplyTo: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verify Link Analysis
 Sent: Jul 17, 2009 09:30
 
 
 
 Scott Reed wrote:
 Does anyone have a easy, inexpensive way to test a link before a tower 
 is built?  RadioMobile link analysis says I can get backhaul to the 
 potential location, but in my area trees are always a challenge.  I 
 would like to test it now, while the trees are full, before I commit the 
 money to build a tower.  I am looking at a 120' ANWireless tower, so I 
 need to be able to test at 100+ feet.

 Scott Reed
 Sr. Systems Engineer
 GAB Midwest
 1-800-363-1544 x4000
 Cell: 260-273-7239
 
 
 Scott
 
 I noticed in your signature that it says GAB Midwest.
 
 Who is GAB Midwest?
 
 Thanks
 George
 
 
 
 
 
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 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Performance

2009-07-01 Thread George Rogato
Josh Luthman wrote:
 So you can use 10/5 mhz channels with



 But not..

 StarOS
 WARP

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
   
Actually you can do 5 and 10 MHz channels with star and wraps, but not 
V2, only V3 .
V3 is the beggining of channel widths for star.
V2 is old firmware.




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Re: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff

2009-06-26 Thread George Rogato
How come Google, Yahoo, and Live.com don't get black listed.
I'm pretty sure 1 million times more spam comes out of those domains 
than any small independent isp's ...



Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 What are you guys doing for email these days?  I LOVE my setup for it's 
 reliability, ease of use etc.
 
 Hacked customer accounts and virus's are killing me though.  We don't catch 
 things until 100,000s of messages go out and we get black listed.  This has 
 now happened 3 or 4 times in the last couple of years.
 
 My server admins aren't coming up with a solution to this other than to 
 limit cc's to 25 per message.  We did that once before and my phone rang off 
 the hook because people can't send jokes to their friends.
 
 The other thing that makes it hard is that the log files that I get (up to 
 40 megs per day!) don't list the authenticated sender, only the reply 
 address.  So I see tens of thousands of messages from a user that's not even 
 mine (faked info).  sigh
 
 We use Courier MTA.
 
 My thought is to set the server to allow a max of 1000 messages per day per 
 user.  And to somehow make the log file ONLY send me the number of messages 
 received per a user, and the number sent, user name and ip addy of all those 
 sending.  Twice now I've asked about that idea and gotten no response from 
 the server admins.
 
 Suggestions?
 
 laters,
 marlon
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff

2009-06-26 Thread George Rogato
I almost feel the same way too.
But a funny thing is, some of our customers like our email. It never has 
virus, and we have a spam filter provider that sends a daily quarantine 
report and those emails never make it to my server.
So for the most part, everything is great till we get blacklisted.
And a nice thing is, it's free advertising that you just can't buy.

When I see some of the emails people send to their groups cc'd and not 
bcc'd, and I see my domain in the bulk of those emails, I know other 
people do too that don't use my service.
When they get tired of poor support from their isp, like charter or 
qwest, they already know we are serving their friends and find their way 
to us.

We get a lot of word of mouth advertising that way.

RickG wrote:
 I have thought about this many times as well. I couldnt make a clean
 break so I practically keep it a secret that we offer it. They only
 get our email if they ask. Now, if we can drop the electrical
 storms!!!
 -RickG
 
 On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com 
 wrote:
 Email?  We don't need no stinkin' email!

 We gave up email hosting.  We were sending invoices via email and lots of
 the customers were never getting them because they never used the email
 address we gave them, they were mostly using Yahoo online!  The user
 accounts were jammed packed of just junk mail and such because they never
 grabbed mail from their box.  Well!  After some thought, we stopped giving
 out email addresses and giving them a list of free email sites such as Gmail
 and yahoo.  (In an effort to keep our prices as friendly as we can.
 blah, blah, blah.)  We grandfathered the existing users and hosted them
 but eventually they all moved to the free providers also.  So now what?  No
 more support calls on the email, I can tell ya that!  More than half of our
 trouble tickets went away.  I no longer have to recite to grandma how to
 reenter her user name and password just because the grandkids wiped it out
 of her incredimail.  YES!!!



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:33 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff

 Hi All,

 What are you guys doing for email these days?  I LOVE my setup for it's
 reliability, ease of use etc.

 Hacked customer accounts and virus's are killing me though.  We don't catch
 things until 100,000s of messages go out and we get black listed.  This has
 now happened 3 or 4 times in the last couple of years.

 My server admins aren't coming up with a solution to this other than to
 limit cc's to 25 per message.  We did that once before and my phone rang off

 the hook because people can't send jokes to their friends.

 The other thing that makes it hard is that the log files that I get (up to
 40 megs per day!) don't list the authenticated sender, only the reply
 address.  So I see tens of thousands of messages from a user that's not even

 mine (faked info).  sigh

 We use Courier MTA.

 My thought is to set the server to allow a max of 1000 messages per day per
 user.  And to somehow make the log file ONLY send me the number of messages
 received per a user, and the number sent, user name and ip addy of all those

 sending.  Twice now I've asked about that idea and gotten no response from
 the server admins.

 Suggestions?

 laters,
 marlon



 
 
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Re: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff

2009-06-26 Thread George Rogato
Wonder how much it is.
Says it's based on qty of email addresses.



RickG wrote:
 Cost?
 
 On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Pat O'Connorp...@inlandnet.com wrote:
 We're switching to this over this weekend.

 http://www.redcondor.com/products/appliances.htm





 rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
 One of the things I've done in the spam war is to use something called ASSP,
 which is just Anti Spam SMTP Proxy.

 It does a passable job of prevening inbound spam, and it prevents anyone not
 on my network from sending mail out through my server, via firewall rules
 put on the server.

 You can use a similar setup to have your customer's emails filtered outbound
 through something like this.It can also be placed on alternate ports and
 using firewall rules, prevent any cust omer from sending mail directly out.

 I haven't needed to do that, at least not yet.

 ASSP, when run on the mail server machine itself, can also act as an
 authentication and filtering of outbound emails.




 
 insert witty tagline here

 - Original Message -
 From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 8:33 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] OT, pesky email stuff



 Hi All,

 What are you guys doing for email these days?  I LOVE my setup for it's
 reliability, ease of use etc.

 Hacked customer accounts and virus's are killing me though.  We don't
 catch
 things until 100,000s of messages go out and we get black listed.  This
 has
 now happened 3 or 4 times in the last couple of years.

 My server admins aren't coming up with a solution to this other than to
 limit cc's to 25 per message.  We did that once before and my phone rang
 off
 the hook because people can't send jokes to their friends.

 The other thing that makes it hard is that the log files that I get (up to
 40 megs per day!) don't list the authenticated sender, only the reply
 address.  So I see tens of thousands of messages from a user that's not
 even
 mine (faked info).  sigh

 We use Courier MTA.

 My thought is to set the server to allow a max of 1000 messages per day
 per
 user.  And to somehow make the log file ONLY send me the number of
 messages
 received per a user, and the number sent, user name and ip addy of all
 those
 sending.  Twice now I've asked about that idea and gotten no response from
 the server admins.

 Suggestions?

 laters,
 marlon



 
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[WISPA] Google Voice

2009-06-19 Thread George Rogato
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html?source=NWWNLE_nlt_daily_am_2009-06-19




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[WISPA] Magic Jack

2009-06-19 Thread George Rogato
Who owns Magic Jack?



Josh Luthman wrote:
 Summary:
 
 Google is becoming a phone company.  They just reserved a *million DIDs.
 
 *Google Voice has great features, idealing for ringing numbers you already
 have and its own voicemail.
 
 Google is taking over the technology market.  Shortly followed by the
 economy.  Then the world.
 *
 *Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
 
 
 On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote:
 
 George Rogato wrote:
 http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html
 Between this (Google acquiring a million phone numbers), and their
 announcement a few days ago about their plans to support number
 portability, it's almost like Google wants to be a phone company too.

 Curiously, I think I might be alright with something like that.

 (Aside: Woulda been nice to put in even a brief summary of the article
 instead of making everyone click.)

 David Smith
 MVN.net



 
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Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

2009-06-19 Thread George Rogato
Are they a publicly traded company?


Martha Huizenga wrote:
 Check out the video on their web site: 
 http://www.magicjack.com/2/?mid=307001a=55959s=
 
 Looks like the inventor still owns it? Dan Borislow is also the founder 
 of YMAX Communications Corporation, a modern phone company with the 
 largest competitive local exchange carrier (CLEC) network in the U.S.
 
 Martha Huizenga
 DC Access, LLC
 202-546-5898
 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
 Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
 
 /*
 
 
 
 George Rogato wrote:
 Who owns Magic Jack?



 Josh Luthman wrote:
   
 Summary:

 Google is becoming a phone company.  They just reserved a *million DIDs.

 *Google Voice has great features, idealing for ringing numbers you already
 have and its own voicemail.

 Google is taking over the technology market.  Shortly followed by the
 economy.  Then the world.
 *
 *Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


 On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote:

 
 George Rogato wrote:
   
 http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html
 
 Between this (Google acquiring a million phone numbers), and their
 announcement a few days ago about their plans to support number
 portability, it's almost like Google wants to be a phone company too.

 Curiously, I think I might be alright with something like that.

 (Aside: Woulda been nice to put in even a brief summary of the article
 instead of making everyone click.)

 David Smith
 MVN.net



 
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Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

2009-06-19 Thread George Rogato
Surprisingly to me, it's kinda caught on so much so that quite a few of 
my subs use it.

Lately I was toying with the thought of doing a Magic Jack bundle with 
my service.

Of course I have my own voip offering through VOX and I'm not sure if it 
would take away from that or add to it.

I wonder if offering a low end deal like Magic Jack is going to hurt 
OFN's image or help bolster it..






Josh Luthman wrote:
 I played with it a while back.  Very good stuff, just needs number
 portability and a little better support.  I know someone who spent nearly
 two days to pay their bill...
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
 
 
 On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 11:18 AM, George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.netwrote:
 
 Who owns Magic Jack?



 Josh Luthman wrote:
 Summary:

 Google is becoming a phone company.  They just reserved a *million DIDs.

 *Google Voice has great features, idealing for ringing numbers you
 already
 have and its own voicemail.

 Google is taking over the technology market.  Shortly followed by the
 economy.  Then the world.
 *
 *Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


 On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote:

 George Rogato wrote:
 http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html
 Between this (Google acquiring a million phone numbers), and their
 announcement a few days ago about their plans to support number
 portability, it's almost like Google wants to be a phone company too.

 Curiously, I think I might be alright with something like that.

 (Aside: Woulda been nice to put in even a brief summary of the article
 instead of making everyone click.)

 David Smith
 MVN.net




 
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Re: [WISPA] Magic Jack

2009-06-19 Thread George Rogato
I quickly googled Magic Jack Corporate and didn't get any corporate 
info, so I was assuming it was a privately held product.

No stock play there

:(



Martha Huizenga wrote:
 I don't think so.
 
 Martha Huizenga
 DC Access, LLC
 202-546-5898
 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
 Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
 
 /*
 
 
 
 George Rogato wrote:
 Are they a publicly traded company?


 Martha Huizenga wrote:
   
 Check out the video on their web site: 
 http://www.magicjack.com/2/?mid=307001a=55959s=

 Looks like the inventor still owns it? Dan Borislow is also the founder 
 of YMAX Communications Corporation, a modern phone company with the 
 largest competitive local exchange carrier (CLEC) network in the U.S.

 Martha Huizenga
 DC Access, LLC
 202-546-5898
 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
 Connecting the Capitol Hill Community

 /*



 George Rogato wrote:
 
 Who owns Magic Jack?



 Josh Luthman wrote:
   
   
 Summary:

 Google is becoming a phone company.  They just reserved a *million DIDs.

 *Google Voice has great features, idealing for ringing numbers you already
 have and its own voicemail.

 Google is taking over the technology market.  Shortly followed by the
 economy.  Then the world.
 *
 *Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


 On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:57 AM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote:

 
 
 George Rogato wrote:
   
   
 http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/061809-google-voice.html
 
 
 Between this (Google acquiring a million phone numbers), and their
 announcement a few days ago about their plans to support number
 portability, it's almost like Google wants to be a phone company too.

 Curiously, I think I might be alright with something like that.

 (Aside: Woulda been nice to put in even a brief summary of the article
 instead of making everyone click.)

 David Smith
 MVN.net



 
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Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding /Financing / Capital Availability

2009-06-03 Thread George Rogato
Unless you actually make a decent salary.
When your a sole proprietor you have to pay the self employment tax.
Self employment tax is matching social security payments.
You pay both the individual ss tax and as well as the employers 
contribution which comes to about double.

If you were incorporated and you were an employee, which you would be, 
you could collect half your pay in salary and the other half in 
dividends, or 1/4 in salary and 3/4 in dividends (which yields a deeper 
tax break)

Dividends are not subject to the 2nd half of the contributing tax or the 
self employment tax, never mind workers comp, state unemployment, etc.

For those that rant and rave against the big bad government and their 
unreasonable taxes (count me in), then it's foolish to voluntarily pay 
what is not required of you.

But to all those that do go ahead and pay the extra not required ss tax, 
My family and all the rest of those who will someday collect ss in our 
golden years thank you for being so generous as paying this extra 
voluntary tax to help insure the solvency of ss so it will be there when 
we retire as well as give the government even more money to borrow 
against so they can spend even more tax dollars that really aren't there.

Also, if you have a good cpa, they tell you this stuff when they do your 
income taxes.

a cpa is not a tax preparer or a book keeper.







RickG wrote:
 Makes sense to me...thanks! -RickG
 
 On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com 
 wrote:
 Let me get my accountant wife to answer that one.  Here's Melissa

 Well, for us it's not yet in our best interest to incorporate.  Sometimes
 the reason for incorporating is to help insulate the individual from a
 lawsuit - but usually if the corp is sued, they also sue the owner of the
 corp.  I agree with you about the S-Corp - the income from an S-Corp is
 picked up on your personal return so there aren't usually as many advantages
 when doing tax planning.  We have not incorporated because the cost of being
 a corp (accounting, legal, another set of books, more time on Melissa's part
 to work on the books...) is greater to us right now than the benefits.  I
 see it as something that we will probably need to do in the future as our
 income increases and we need to do more tax planning.  Hope that helps.
 Melissa

 There ya have it!
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:02 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding
 /Financing / Capital Availability


 Ha! Another interesting topic! In the past, when doing business for
 myself, I legally filed as a sole-proprietor. When I got into the WISP
 business, for a multitude of reasons, I became an S-Corp. After
 filing my taxes, it seems to be much simpler and possibly more
 advantageous to just be a sole-proprietor. But that goes against all
 advise I receive.
 Marlon, I'm actually surprised that you are a sole-proprietor. What
 benefits have you found by remaining so?
 -RickG

 On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
 o...@odessaoffice.com wrote:
 One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'.

 We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a
 proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated
 and
 expensive to do right). I'm still a business though

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset

 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital
 Availability


 Hi Marlon,

 I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on
 things so everyone is on the same page

 Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define

 Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood
 or profit

 Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and
 codifies a specific method of proprietorship

 Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts,
 brand, marketing, etc

 Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's
 also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it
 sucks,
 Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and
 in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth
 anything more than the depreciated value of its assets

 Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have
 of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps
 (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because
 of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those
 customers would probably 

Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability

2009-06-03 Thread George Rogato
Yeah, my accountant told me a story about one of his un named clients 
who was previously part of a corp . Turns out there was a lawsuit 
against a corporation that had filed for bk protection a couple years 
earlier.

The person filing the lawsuit wanted to see the corporate minutes for 
the now defunct corporation to see if they were done on a regular basis.

What they were after is, was it a real corporation that held directors 
meetings on a regular basis and kept minutes.

if not, then the corporation would in fact  be considered an illegal 
corporation and the shareholders would then be considered sole 
proprietors and the corporations bk would be over turned, leaving them 
open to that lawsuit. More so than exposing the share holders to that 
type of liability, the share holders, now sole proprietor or partners 
would have also filed false tax returns and would be subject to all 
those unpaid taxes and penalties interest etc.

A can of worms indeed, when not done right.



Travis Johnson wrote:
 I understand the corporate structure and how it works. I also know that 
 if you follow all the proper corporate bylaws, they can NOT break the 
 corporate barrier. Yes, they will try and list each person individually, 
 but if you have a good attorney, that is a simple motion to get the 
 individuals removed (been there, done that).
 
 Travis
 Microserv
 
 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 It can be done a lot cheaper.  But we work hard to do it right not cheap 
 these days.

 And the corporate veil isn't as strong as it used to be.  If your company 
 screws up the officers (that's you) will be named on any suit these days too.

 marlon

   - Original Message - 
   From: Travis Johnson 
   To: WISPA General List 
   Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 9:53 AM
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability


   Huh? We incorporated in 1997 and I think total cost was less than $500. 
 How do you ever expect to get away from having to do personal guarantees if 
 you don't operate like a real business?

   Travis
   Microserv

   Marlon K. Schafer wrote: 
 One more thing.  I don't agree with your definitions per se'.

 We all have businesses.  A proprietorship is a TYPE of business.  We are a 
 proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and 
 expensive to do right).  I'm still a business though

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset

 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability


   Hi Marlon,

 I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on 
 things so everyone is on the same page

 Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define

 Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood 
 or profit

 Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and 
 codifies a specific method of proprietorship

 Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, 
 brand, marketing, etc

 Grin.  Sure it is.  That's what a LOT of small business people do.  It's
 also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc  Sometimes it
 sucks,
   Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, 
 and 
 in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth 
 anything more than the depreciated value of its assets

 Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have 
 of value?  His truck?  Some old tools?  A customer list / brand perhaps 
 (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because 
 of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those 
 customers would probably go back to being on the open market)

 Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth 
 noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation 
 of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the 
 recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, 
 this is akin to real-estate

 Not
 everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every
 business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money 
 they
 made was when it was just them, no employees..)  But then again, 
 that's
 one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and
 flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator 
 dreams
 to bear fuit!
   True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has 
 value 
 (be happy we're not plumbers =)

 -Charles





 
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Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton onFunding /Financing / Capital Availability

2009-06-03 Thread George Rogato
Seriously, the person you should be asking this question to, is your 
accountant.

They are going to know best.


RickG wrote:
 Correct, compared to C-Corps. Is there and advantage of LLC versus S-Corp?
 -RickG
 
 On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com wrote:
 S-Corps get rid of the double taxation...but you are limited to how many 
 shareholders you can have and some other limited things.

 Scottie

 -- Original Message --
 From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:23:37 -0700

 Melissa does work at an accounting firm.  She's not the CPA but she does
 most of the paperwork etc.  And, naturally we work very closely with the
 CPAs at the firm.

 We've looked at the money differences between sole proprietor and corp.
 There really isn't much difference if you stay honest with things.  At least
 not at the low levels we're at.

 When we start making more money (in the next couple of years as things are
 sitting now) we'll likely be better off as a corp.  Because the current
 business doesn't actually own anything we'll be able to easily set things up
 so that the corp rents things from us.  The office, vehicles etc.  In that
 way we can personally take some of the income while the corp writes it off.

 The way you juggle things to keep taxes down is to work the tax brackets.
 Right now we're able to stay in a pretty low one.  But I'm running out of
 places and ways to expand so that's going to change.  We'll pay less taxes
 when we have two smaller entities in smaller brackets.  At least that's the
 way I understand it now

 One of the really great things about a sole proprietorship is asset
 management.  We can take old computers home all day and it's no big deal.
 Just move it.  If it's something owned by the corp we have to somehow
 transfer that product.  More paperwork etc.

 Another thing a person has to be very careful with is who owns what.  Mom
 and Dad own a large farm.  Thousands and thousands of acres, mostly
 irrigated.  Back when their corp got formed all of the assets were put into
 the corp.  Now that they want to sell the farm they have to somehow make
 nearly twice as much because they'll be double taxed at the time of the
 sale.  There will be income tax at the corp level AND capital gains at the
 personal level.  Or some such similar mess.  Basically when they sell 50% or
 so will to go taxes.  Unless they can sell the corp it's self which is
 something no one wants to buy.  People only want the assets, otherwise they
 end up with the same long term tax mess.  It's also nearly impossible to
 gift enough assets back to themselves or their kids to make a difference.

 Both sole owner and corp have their places.  The choices are not REALLY as
 simple as some people try to make them out.  And how they get structured
 over the long run is very important yet almost no one ever goes to a lawyer
 that specializes in such things for advice on the best type of corp to form
 and how to run it from day one.  Many things get done just because that's
 they way it is, even if there is a better way..  I still look at my
 avoidance of routing cpe.  The reasons I liked bridging cpe have proven to
 be very true (radios are inflexible crappy routers) but the benefits have
 been wonderful anyway.  It's something I wish I'd have listened to others on
 years and years ago.  Human nature I guess.  I am listening to the experts
 on tax matters though.  grin

 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding
 /Financing / Capital Availability


 Unless you actually make a decent salary.
 When your a sole proprietor you have to pay the self employment tax.
 Self employment tax is matching social security payments.
 You pay both the individual ss tax and as well as the employers
 contribution which comes to about double.

 If you were incorporated and you were an employee, which you would be,
 you could collect half your pay in salary and the other half in
 dividends, or 1/4 in salary and 3/4 in dividends (which yields a deeper
 tax break)

 Dividends are not subject to the 2nd half of the contributing tax or the
 self employment tax, never mind workers comp, state unemployment, etc.

 For those that rant and rave against the big bad government and their
 unreasonable taxes (count me in), then it's foolish to voluntarily pay
 what is not required of you.

 But to all those that do go ahead and pay the extra not required ss tax,
 My family and all the rest of those who will someday collect ss in our
 golden years thank you for being so generous as paying this extra
 voluntary tax to help insure the solvency of ss so it will be there when
 we retire as well as give

Re: [WISPA] DVR experience

2009-06-02 Thread George Rogato
Thanks Ryan, I have a Mobotix cam. I'm not looking for ip cams.
Looking for traditional cams.

I just used one of these:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4442425sku=L350-0013

I kinda like it, except it uses quicktime for the streaming.




D. Ryan Spott wrote:
 I am using Mobotix for cameras. The DVR software is free. Or the cams  
 can perform the DVR function. Hit me offlist and I can give you a link  
 to 2 I just put up out of 22 for a small city.
 
 
 ryan
 
 
 On Jun 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, George Rogato wrote:
 
 Anyone working with dvr's and cameras that they really like?

 I'm looking for advice on what is good and what is not.

 Thanks




 
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Re: [WISPA] DVR experience

2009-06-02 Thread George Rogato
Hi Jeremy

Have you tried the Bosch and you like it?

Do you remember the price you paid by chance?



Jeremy Parr wrote:
 I've had reasonably good luck with Axis IP Megapixel cams, and OnSSI
 DVR software. Bosch has a nice line of traditional cameras, and their
 DVRs are hybrid, allowing the addition of IP cameras.
 
 On 6/1/09, D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote:
 I am using Mobotix for cameras. The DVR software is free. Or the cams
 can perform the DVR function. Hit me offlist and I can give you a link
 to 2 I just put up out of 22 for a small city.


 ryan


 On Jun 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, George Rogato wrote:

 Anyone working with dvr's and cameras that they really like?

 I'm looking for advice on what is good and what is not.

 Thanks




 
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Re: [WISPA] DVR experience

2009-06-02 Thread George Rogato
What I'm trying to do is not use an expensive high quality ip cams. A 
couple years ago I did a cam job using a Sony. When I was researching 
the project I talked to a guy that does cams for a living.

He said, for the money you spend on an ip cam, you could get a lot of 
non ip cams.

I don't know very much about cameras, figured there is some experts here 
on the list that can help educate me-us.



D. Ryan Spott wrote:
 I am using Mobotix for cameras. The DVR software is free. Or the cams  
 can perform the DVR function. Hit me offlist and I can give you a link  
 to 2 I just put up out of 22 for a small city.
 
 
 ryan
 
 
 On Jun 1, 2009, at 6:16 PM, George Rogato wrote:
 
 Anyone working with dvr's and cameras that they really like?

 I'm looking for advice on what is good and what is not.

 Thanks




 
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Re: [WISPA] Ethernet Cabling

2009-05-28 Thread George Rogato
Thats a good comparison Tom.
Couple things I should note, which I thought about after I posted.
I live in the Pac North West, not the South West, Arizona Nevada or 
Texas. I'm not sure blue cat 5 would stand up in outdoor situations 
there when it is exposed to the hellacious sunlight there.
And when I run my cat 5 I try my best to hide it so it looks good. Like 
on the underside of eves and the backside of the fascia board, behind 
down spouts and gutters. those places do not generally get much sunlight.
And it's rare that I do an exposed roof run.

I really can only comment on my experience. I'm sure things are 
different in other parts of the country.


Tom DeReggi wrote:
 You made a good point that regular CAT5 actually can last quite a while, if 
 someone wanted to use it.
 And the cheapest if they wanted to use PVC, at $60 a spool/box.
 



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Re: [WISPA] clues for vendors

2009-05-27 Thread George Rogato
Yeppers, it is truly an indication of the vendors lack of respect for 
our intelligence that makes a vendor assume we are clueless enough to 
buy their un priced pitch.





John Bates wrote:
 You are definitely not alone. Sometimes it makes sense to partner with a
 vendor, whether it's preferred pricing, bulk financing, or even branding
 opportunities that they offer. I get the same calls and emails from vendors
 and am left wondering what kind of strategy they are applying in their sales
 departments to not answer my information requests and provide me with
 responses full of canned marketing trash (spam) and surveys that are
 irrelevant in satisfying my requirements.

 John Bates
 President
 WHISPr Networks
   





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Re: [WISPA] Ethernet Cabling

2009-05-27 Thread George Rogato
My experience living in the rainy pacific northwest is, regular old blue 
or grey cat 5 cable has lasted all the 10 years I've been doing this. I 
use it on all my houses and buildings.

White cat 5 does not work outdoors and deteriorates quickly. Should be 
no surprise.

Up a tower I use an a cable that is flooded and has an aluminum 
sheath-tube over the inner cat 5 cable.
I've bought it for .17 and .25 per foot from an electrical supplier. I 
like this stuff better than the typical armored gopher cable.

One thing for certain working with cables is it's always a learnig 
experience and as time goes on we seem to always find better techniques.
Call it the school of hard knocks.

Working with rootennas and those ethernet pass throughs, I've learned to 
  tape them up like an n male connector and to actually fold the cat 5 
cable to under the passthrough and tape it in place there.

Fixing water damaged connections is not a pleasant experience for me.



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[WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

2009-05-26 Thread George Rogato
Is there a cell phone that can connect to someones wifi ap and still 
make phone calls or recieve data when not in range of the cell service?

Thanks





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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

2009-05-26 Thread George Rogato
Jonathan Schmidt wrote:
 I have had a series of Nokia phones will use Wi-Fi thru its built-in SIP
 client directly to my office Asterisk and have been doing that for several
 years.  The E71 I have now is FAR superior to the earlier models in terms
 of Wi-Fi sensitivity.  I use it in conferences overseas...Europe and
 Brazil and Mexico for free US calling.  It works very well and I leave it
 on during the shows and my office can call me with the 4-digit Asterisk
 extension.  There's a Skype for it and the iPhone, too.

 . . . J o n a t h a n

   
So the Nokia E71 does cell and sip?
Is this ATT?

Also, do you buy the phone and use existing cell phone card in that 
phone and it just works?

My original question is for one of my clients, but this phone might be 
something I want.

George





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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

2009-05-26 Thread George Rogato
Josh Luthman wrote:
 If you have Asterisk you just opened up nearly any Wifi phone to your
 system.  SIP is so universal...

   

Yeah, I have not been keeping up with cell phones. My own is 5years 
old...doesn't even have a camera or display caller id on the outside of 
the phone ;(

A client was telling me he heard there was a cell phone that when not in 
range of the cell service could connect to ANYONES wifi.
Hadn't heard that, seen the phones with skype and the t mobile cells, 
but not cell over voip.

Which is why I asked here.

So I take it there is no cell phone service that works off wifi as well?





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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

2009-05-26 Thread George Rogato
cell over wifi.

Your right T mobile is not an option.

It's ATT.

You would think the cell carriers would have a combo sip cell phone that 
when their service is not in range, the phone could connect to a wifi ap 
and connect back to the cell companies service via sip.

Thats what I'm looking for. I noticed some phones do this but with 
skype, android I think, just was hoping there was news I hadn't heard 
that says they have such a phone.



e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
 Not sure what you mean with cell over wifi since you discarded the tmobile 
 phones. They have their hots...@home phones (UMA) which will and can take 
 advantage of a wifi AP and give you coverage where you might not have any or 
 with the $19.95 monthly gives you unlimited UMA calls. In my house there is 
 not a single carrier that gives any coverage worth much unless you like to 
 stand in one place with phone at specific angle and do some magic tricks at 
 the same times. But with the a hots...@home phone from T-Mobile I have now 
 perfect coverage at home.  
 
 /Eje
 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
 
 -Original Message-
 From: George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.net
 
 Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 16:28:25 
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?
 
 
 Josh Luthman wrote:
 If you have Asterisk you just opened up nearly any Wifi phone to your
 system.  SIP is so universal...

   
 
 Yeah, I have not been keeping up with cell phones. My own is 5years 
 old...doesn't even have a camera or display caller id on the outside of 
 the phone ;(
 
 A client was telling me he heard there was a cell phone that when not in 
 range of the cell service could connect to ANYONES wifi.
 Hadn't heard that, seen the phones with skype and the t mobile cells, 
 but not cell over voip.
 
 Which is why I asked here.
 
 So I take it there is no cell phone service that works off wifi as well?
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability

2009-05-25 Thread George Rogato
In Oregon the filing costs is nothing to incorporate.
Of course a lawyer will charge what they will to fill out the forms.

One thing the sole proprietor is missing out on not being an s or c corp 
is the tax benefit associated with social security.
Of course thee is more work to be a corporation, but there is also a tax 
savings as well.



Travis Johnson wrote:
 Huh? We incorporated in 1997 and I think total cost was less than $500. 
 How do you ever expect to get away from having to do personal guarantees 
 if you don't operate like a real business?
 
 Travis
 Microserv
 
 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 One more thing.  I don't agree with your definitions per se'.

 We all have businesses.  A proprietorship is a TYPE of business.  We are a 
 proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and 
 expensive to do right).  I'm still a business though

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset

 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability


   
 Hi Marlon,

 I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on 
 things so everyone is on the same page

 Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define

 Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood 
 or profit

 Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and 
 codifies a specific method of proprietorship

 Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, 
 brand, marketing, etc

 
 Grin.  Sure it is.  That's what a LOT of small business people do.  It's
 also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc  Sometimes it
 sucks,
   
 Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and 
 in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth 
 anything more than the depreciated value of its assets

 Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have 
 of value?  His truck?  Some old tools?  A customer list / brand perhaps 
 (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because 
 of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those 
 customers would probably go back to being on the open market)

 Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth 
 noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation 
 of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the 
 recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, 
 this is akin to real-estate

 
 Not
 everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every
 business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money 
 they
 made was when it was just them, no employees..)  But then again, 
 that's
 one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and
 flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator 
 dreams
 to bear fuit!
   
 True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value 
 (be happy we're not plumbers =)

 -Charles





 
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Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability

2009-05-22 Thread George Rogato
Travis Johnson wrote:
  but we are putting the cash flow money into other things... like real 
 estate, that is dirt cheap right now... ;)
Thats what we did in Novemeber.
Got a 500k property for about 325k .
And got the owner to carry 90% @ 6% on an 8 year term. Not much interest 
to pay, just a heavy monthly payment.
But, I hope the market turns around so I can sell, get my profit and 
principle back so I can plow fiber  into my infrastructure.






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Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps

2009-05-21 Thread George Rogato
For sure congress doesn't have much of a clue. But the FCC understands 
very well.

Scottie Arnett wrote:
 I don't want to seem like a chronic complainer as I usually do on the WISPA 
 listbut this has been my SPEW all along for years! The FCC and Washington 
 have NO Intelligible IDEA  about Internet Technology and how it works! Out of 
 most of our House and Senate reps, I bet 90% do not even know how to operate 
 a PC...they hire underlings to do that and the underlings try to tell 
 them what they need to know.
 
 One thing I agree with Obama on, is he is setting up a technology committee. 
 I hope they know WTF they are talking about...maybe finally!
 
 Scott 
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Thu, 21 May 2009 17:20:10 -0400
 
 People read the comments, its scary, like this one...


 Internet providing is like having an infinite tank of free water. ISP's pay
 for the pipes to get it to your house. You pay them based on the size of the
 pipe. Now they want to charge you based on the amount of free water you use
 each month. Does that seem logical or fair?



 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Matt
 Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM
 To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps

 Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot
 impose download caps as well.

 http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost

 Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric,
 gas, telephone and etc.

 Wispa really should officially comment on this bill.

 Matt


 
 
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 Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth.
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Re: [WISPA] Customers are great

2009-05-20 Thread George Rogato
Glad you said MOST, my experience over the years, is there is a Zillion 
Business People, but not that many that stay in business for very 
long. They are the 92% crowd.



Rick Kunze wrote:
 On 5/20/2009 2:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Even if that figure was pulled from thin air it is so easily
 believable.  How sad is that?!
 
 nod
 
 Conversely, MOST business owners have common sense.  I wonder what the 
 ratio is for politicians?
 
 Rk  - ducking for cover!
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Monowall and Microsoft Vista machines

2009-05-18 Thread George Rogato


Steve Barnes wrote:
  I just
 found that MoNowall is a FreeBSD Firewall.  Good luck with that.
 
 Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service

FreeBSD is well supported and quite popular. We use BSD for quite a bit 
of stuff. Mainly servers, but also routers.



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Re: [WISPA] Fiber/Copper Combo Wire

2009-05-09 Thread George Rogato
Or a person could buy a set of up down transformers to increase the 
voltage going up the tower to avoid voltage drop.

Of course, running 110 up to the top is probably easier.

Jack Unger wrote:
 You have the best solution - regulating at the top. Otherwise, as you 
 state, the voltage at the top will go up when the current load goes 
 down. The voltage at the top will go down when the current load goes up. 
 MUCH better to regulate at the top...
 
 os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'd worry about what would happen as the load varies, specifically if  
 the load gets substantially less which could lead to the device  
 getting overloaded. I'd rather sent up something unregulated and  
 regulate it at the top.

 Greg

 On May 8, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Kevin Neal wrote:

   
 So..what about this...get an adjustable voltage power supply.   
 Install the
 RG6 or whatever coax/wire would handle the load/distance.  Adjust the
 voltage with a meter up top so that you have ~24-28v at your  
 equipment?

 -Kevin


 
  all previous content peached 'cuz we were out of prunes
 



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Re: [WISPA] OT, IE is allowing strange things

2009-05-08 Thread George Rogato


Gary Garrett wrote:
 Its your IP address. The same way the Porno ads show you all those 
 fantastic looking women in Naples Idaho.
 Hell I have lived here 35 years and if even one of them really lived 
 here I would have hit on them long ago!!!
 

That was funny Gary



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Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs

2009-05-05 Thread George Rogato
:)

Actually I have a high regard for my customers, it's the ones that try 
to game me that invokes nasty thoughts.

One trick I have learned over the years, if you turn a sub off and 
expect to get paid make sure they get turned off during business hours 
so they can call in and make arrangements to pay up.
Otherwise they may be gone by the time business opens and you will never 
see any money.




Bob Moldashel wrote:
 George Rogato wrote:
 Weeds out the broke dead beat cheap skates.
   
 
 Careful George.  I called a customer a loser and got tarred and 
 feathered .   :-)
 
 
 Thats the pool who most likely will not pay.

 My broadband customers all paid little extra to have my service and 
 those types pay their bills on time.

 George


 rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
   
 I've had moderate success just making a personal visit to see how the 
 people 
 are doing.

 If they're out of a job and no income, we cut the bandwidth way down and 
 suspend billing for a while.   If internet can help them get a job, then 
 it's in our interest to do this.

 Generally, we have pretty good success with a personal visit.   I'm not 
 confrontational, but explain that we really do expect to be paid and the 
 customer's generally pretty good at paying when they see it as a matter of 
 personal importance.

 Other than that, we've not found that notes, or emails works well.




 
 insert witty tagline here

 - Original Message - 
 From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:40 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs


 
 I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on.
 It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months.  Do you just
 cut your losses and move on or what do you do?  I'm contemplating small
 claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees
 per person.  We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked.



 We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never
 happened.





 Regards,

 Chuck Hogg

 Shelby Broadband
 502-722-9292
 ch...@shelbybb.com

 http://www.shelbybb.com





 
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Re: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs

2009-05-04 Thread George Rogato
We work with people too. But I don't go visit them. I have the shop do 
the calling, Only thing I do is go get my stuff back.
Only one time did anyone ever give me the trespassing story and that was 
a guy who was hoping to hold it ransom for some kind of a refund.
It's a a gray area

Been pretty lucky that we have not had many bad broadband subs. Dial up, 
we had every scammer dead beat and whiner in our town at one time or 
another.

I think what separated this, was the higher cost to turn on my broadband 
service.

Weeds out the broke dead beat cheap skates.

Thats the pool who most likely will not pay.

My broadband customers all paid little extra to have my service and 
those types pay their bills on time.

George


rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
 I've had moderate success just making a personal visit to see how the people 
 are doing.
 
 If they're out of a job and no income, we cut the bandwidth way down and 
 suspend billing for a while.   If internet can help them get a job, then 
 it's in our interest to do this.
 
 Generally, we have pretty good success with a personal visit.   I'm not 
 confrontational, but explain that we really do expect to be paid and the 
 customer's generally pretty good at paying when they see it as a matter of 
 personal importance.
 
 Other than that, we've not found that notes, or emails works well.
 
 
 
 
 
 insert witty tagline here
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:40 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] Handling Non-paying Subs
 
 
 I've got a few non-paying subs, that we would like to get payment on.
 It has reached over $1k from 4 subs over the past 6 months.  Do you just
 cut your losses and move on or what do you do?  I'm contemplating small
 claims court as it should be an open and shut case, but it's $91 in fees
 per person.  We've done the collection letter and it hasn't worked.



 We got the please don't turn it off, I'm coming to pay...and it never
 happened.





 Regards,

 Chuck Hogg

 Shelby Broadband
 502-722-9292
 ch...@shelbybb.com

 http://www.shelbybb.com





 
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Re: [WISPA] Sector separation/isolation

2009-05-03 Thread George Rogato
Agreed, I do not think it is possible to have three sectors on a tower 
that don't see each other.

Unless of course it's on a large water tank and the water tank is 
blocking the signals.

There should not be a problem with sectors that see or hear each other, 
as long as the sectors are not overlapping channel wise.

If the chip is bleeding over, like ch 6 actually bleeding into channel 
10 and channel 3, then you need to buy a notch filter.
Some wireless cards are bad in that regard.



Josh Luthman wrote:
 Just because an antenna is pointed east does not nothinh bleeds west
 of the antenna.
 
 If you don't want them to see each other you'll want a good 10 foot
 difference (vertically).
 
 On 5/3/09, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote:
 Yes, I tried the 10mhz/5mhz channel widths, per recommendation, the AP's
 still saw each other at similar signal strengths (w/antenna). I will see
 if I can check the rest of the stuff, there is no vertical separation
 either as another recommended, the antennas themselves are at least 20
 foot apart. They are on 3 sides of a water tower, with the water tower
 in between. I didn't install the equipment and haven't been up on the
 tower, so I can't say firsthand how it has been installed. Can you give
 me a rundown of how it should be installed, so I can know what to look
 for. Defective antenna is an idea though, they are Tranzeo 120's, the
 sectorization barely works at distance. I can see all 3 AP's at each
 sector 7 miles away, can peer with two of them, associate with all 3, I
 think this is wrong. I think I should only see one, unless I'm at the
 overlap point.

 Regards
 Michael Baird
 The problem of the APs seeing each other could be due to unusually
 high signal leakage (defective antenna, coax, enclosure etc resulting
 in poor shielding/signal leakage). If that's the case the equipment
 should be performing better than it is (less mutual interference) and
 for some reason it's not. You'd have to investigate and/or swap out
 gear to find the problem.

 Or is it that the equipment and install are all good and this is
 normal due to the proximity? If it's proximity then physical
 separation and/or frequency separation is the only thing that will
 help, hence the suggestion of using narrower channels and moving the
 antennas from previous posts.

 Did you try going to 10 MHz channels?

 Can you disconnect the antenna and put dummy loads on the ends of the
 coax and see how strong the APs can see each other? If the problem
 goes away then it's either a) defective antennas with too much leakage
 or side/rear lobes) or b) antenna proximity.

 Greg

 On May 3, 2009, at 7:13 AM, Michael Baird wrote:


 I think I didn't explain my problem clearly. 10mhz/5mhz channel sep
 makes no difference on how each AP see's each other on a site survey
 on
 the tower.  I want to isolate the sectors from each other in a better
 way, they are too hot to each other and too much overlap. I was
 looking
 for  good ways to do it, I have no noise problems to clients, and my
 channels on the 3 AP's are 1/6/11, none overlapping, and all with -100
 noise floor's.

 Regards
 Michael Baird

 Right now channel 1 uses channel 1, 2 and 3.  Channel 6 uses 4-8.
 When
 you go to 10MHz channels 1 will use 1 and  2.  6 will use 5, 6 and 7.
 Therefore, you are no longer on adjacent channels, there is a gap of
 channels 3 and 4 between.
 Also, you will cut down on the amount of other noise you hear because
 you listen to only half as much spectrum.
 And, you will have more effective power so noise may be less of a
 problem.

 I am sure there are some RF savvy folks out there that can explain it
 better.

 Michael Baird wrote:


 I can try that, can you tell me why that would make a difference
 though
 with the AP's seeing each other at such signal levels? Will
 changing to
 10mhz channel width's cause the AP's to see each other at a lower
 RSSI?

 Regards
 Michael Baird



 Use 10mhz channels instead of 20mhz.

 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Michael Baird
 Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:54 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Sector separation/isolation

 We are still experimenting with aligning sector's on our towers.
 We are
 attempting to use 3 120 degree/13db/6.5 vb/7 degree downtilt,
 antennas
 to cover 360 degrees. I just inspected the towers myself, and
 noticed
 they are setup at 30 degrees/150 degrees/290 degrees (so they
 aren't
 right exactly). So the problem that caused me to inspect the
 tower was
 the signal level I can see the other AP's at.

 AP 30 can see AP 150 at -39 and AP 290 at -42.
 AP 150 can see AP 30 at -42 and AP 290 at -70.
 AP 290 can see AP 30 at -39 and AP 150 at -65.

 So I'm guessing that the reason 150/290 are much higher is
 because of
 the additional 20 degrees between them. These AP's 

Re: [WISPA] RB333/433 eliminating self-interference test

2009-04-29 Thread George Rogato
Tom DeReggi wrote:
 Good point but. the problem went away when the mcpi cards each had their 
 own SBC/Case, this would infer card to card or pigtail to pigtail 
 interference, since in all cases the dummy load was outside the cases, from 
 what it sounds like.  

 I guess that should be clarified

 Kurt, when you tested with teh RB600 and 3 cards on the adjacent slots, was 
 the RB600 also in a case with the holes metal taped?


 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


   

Question I have that should debunk that theory that cards in close 
proximity interfere with each other. Why do the cards not interfere with 
each other when there is additional gain antennas hooked on to them?

You would think there would be even more self interference with high 
gain antennas than with no antennas




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Re: [WISPA] affordable 2.4 GHz repeaters

2009-04-25 Thread George Rogato
No body has mentioned Star-Os, or Lucaya.

Here's a link:

http://www.staros.com/store/datasheets/Au400.pdf

The 2 ports are about 200.00 and the 4 ports are about 400.00

And they are fcc certified units.


Jerry Richardson wrote:
 EOC-3220's seem to work pretty well for us.
  
 Went to the NanoStations due to cost. then Engenius knocked it off, but
 we are prety happy with the Nanos
  
  
  
  
 __ 
 Jerry Richardson 
 airCloud Communications
  
 
 
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Blair Davis
 Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 12:02 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] affordable 2.4 GHz repeaters
 
 
 I have a NanoStation running as an AP right now.
 
 Works fine, but the lack of AP type tools like sig streanth, client list
 and so on make it very hard to use.  
 
 I'll be switching it out for a MikroTik soon.
 
 
 
 Josh Luthman wrote: 
 
   I would avoid Engenius.  Heard a lot of good things abot the
 Ubnt
   stuff, especially the bullet.
   
   On 4/25/09, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com
 mailto:jrichard...@aircloud.com  wrote:
 
 
   Engenius and ubiquity
   
   Jerry Richardson
   airCloud Communications
   Sent from mobile device
   
   -Original Message-
   From: Rogelio scubac...@gmail.com
 mailto:scubac...@gmail.com 
   Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:21 PM
   To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
   Subject: [WISPA] affordable 2.4 GHz repeaters
   
   I've got a situation where I need some lower end
 affordable 2.4 GHz
   repeaters, and the itch can't really be scratched with a
 customer CPE
   device (such as a Ruckus or Tranzeo).
   
   Anyone have any 2.4 GHz repeaters that they can
 recommend?  There won't
   be many people connecting in that area, so I'm not
 really worried about
   collision.  Ideally, this might be something I'd put
 outside.
   
   
   
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

2009-04-23 Thread George Rogato
Not sure about load balancing, as for policy routing, thats easy. We do 
that with a bsd box.
I would assume all the routers, imagestream, MT, Star, Cisco, etc etc.
can handle various wans with policy routing. We just haven't done our 
router upgrade yet and handle ours on an older bsd box.

George

Alan Long wrote:
 I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
 users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
 different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
 with gear to handle this?
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
  http://www.aerowire.net 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
 Alan Long
 Director of Network Operations 
 
 Aerowire
  
 http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=687+North+Dean+Roadcsz=Aubu
 rn%2C+AL+36830country=us 687 North Dean Road
 Auburn, AL 36830 
 
 
  mailto:alan.l...@aerowire.net alan.l...@aerowire.net 
 
 
 tel: 
 mobile: 
 
  
 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=3342759998E
 mail=along5...@yahoo.com 3342759998
  
 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=336092E
 mail=along5...@yahoo.com 336092 
 
  
 
 
 
  
 https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883src=client_sig_212_1_card_joini
 nvite=1=en Always have my latest info
 
  http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig=en Want a
 signature like this?
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

2009-04-23 Thread George Rogato
Butch Evans wrote:
  This thread has degraded WAY beyond useful.

Maybe for you Butch, but I am thinking this was a very useful and 
informative thread and I hate to see someone stifled because of one mans 
disdain.

We should all be able to discuss and hash things out without worrying we 
are going to offend anyone. We are after all, professionals here.

George



 On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 22:02 -0400, mlio...@r337.com wrote:
 MetroConnect's SEC filings state they had $2k of cash on hand. Since that
 time MetroConnect's revenue has declined each quarter and now they state
 their cash on hand is $0.
 
 This thread has degraded WAY beyond useful.  If you want to argue petty
 points, do so OFFLIST.  If you wish to provide information that is
 useful, then please do so.  
 



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Re: [WISPA] fiber termination

2009-04-23 Thread George Rogato
We just terminated some fiber we put in. Used hot melt and hand polished 
the the fiber.
It took no more than an hour to do 6 strands on each end. Maube 1 1/2 hour.
Not sure which connectors you are using, but those can be expensive as 
well. I think we must have paid about 15.00 per connctor.

George


Scott Carullo wrote:
 Never heard of 5 strand but ok
 
 10 ends maybe 20 each
 1 tech an hour each end
 
 Maybe 350 + or minus 50
 
 That's without termination boxes - media converters etc
 
 Scott Carullo
 Brevard Wireless
 (321) 205-1100 x102
 
 On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:16 PM, chris cooper ccoo...@intelliwave.com  
 wrote:
 
 Does anybody have an idea how much I should expect to pay per
 termination to terminate 5 strands of multimode fiber?  The fiber is
 already pulled into the racks, someone would just need to terminate  
 the
 ends.



 Thanks

 Chris Cooper





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Re: [WISPA] fiber termination

2009-04-23 Thread George Rogato
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tnh0V81pLkNR=1

Takes the voodoo black magic away from fiber termination.
So easy a caveman can do it.

George

George Rogato wrote:
 We just terminated some fiber we put in. Used hot melt and hand polished 
 the the fiber.
 It took no more than an hour to do 6 strands on each end. Maube 1 1/2 hour.
 Not sure which connectors you are using, but those can be expensive as 
 well. I think we must have paid about 15.00 per connctor.
 
 George
 
 
 Scott Carullo wrote:
 Never heard of 5 strand but ok

 10 ends maybe 20 each
 1 tech an hour each end

 Maybe 350 + or minus 50

 That's without termination boxes - media converters etc

 Scott Carullo
 Brevard Wireless
 (321) 205-1100 x102

 On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:16 PM, chris cooper ccoo...@intelliwave.com  
 wrote:

 Does anybody have an idea how much I should expect to pay per
 termination to terminate 5 strands of multimode fiber?  The fiber is
 already pulled into the racks, someone would just need to terminate  
 the
 ends.



 Thanks

 Chris Cooper





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Re: [WISPA] Clearwire being sued for poor service, ETFs

2009-04-23 Thread George Rogato
I don't think this hurts anyone. Nobody hardly knows about this and 
there is lots of lawsuites.
One of my customers has been sued twice now because she owns an elder 
care facility that caters to alzhiemers and dimensia folks who's family 
can no longer care for them.
Both suites are My Mother died in your facility because you didn't care 
for her with attendent on a 24/7 basis.

Reality, the family can't care for them either and there is no one on 
one 24 hour  day a week facility.

And they were at deaths door which is why they are there, but just the 
same a lawyer has the people suing for the loss of a loved one, because 
maybe if they posted a nurse 24/7 at your moms side she would not have 
died as quick. Stupid frivilous lawsuites.

Getting back to Clearwire. I have met several people who have it and 
like it. It's on par with cheap dsl and works well for some.
So, they are making hay. I don't think they are a scam, just a very 
sophisticated game plan, they got sprint on their side. maybe soon it 
will sprint wire or clear sprint.

Who knows, but I would hate for people to have false sense of security. 
I think they will be around a long time.



Scott Carullo wrote:
 I disagree with your assessment but to each his own...

 Scott Carullo
 Brevard Wireless
 321-205-1100 x102

  Original Message 
   
 From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net
 Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:41 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Clearwire being sued for poor service, ETFs

 Scott Carullo wrote:

 
 Thats good news for us...   It was obvious long ago this was a take 
   
 the 
   
 investors money and run mission
   
 You have an interesting definition of good news.

 Anyone who sees this story (and I found it on consumerist.com, not an 
 industry source) will just see wireless = unreliable and bad. 
 Obviously there are about a thousand technical distinctions between 
 their service and most of ours (different gear, different spectrum, and 
 of course everyone on this list does their own thing in a different 
 way), but all that will be glossed over, if it's mentioned at all, by 
 any mainstream press outlets that report on this.

 One big wireless provider may have shot the rest of us in the feet, and 
 I forgot to wear the steel-toed boots today.

 David Smith
 MVN.net



 
 
 
   
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Re: [WISPA] [Board] FW: Tranzeo Cleaning out the Cupboards Sale

2009-04-20 Thread George Rogato
Yeah, and I recall, when asked why Tranzeo didn't want to help support 
wisps at wispa, they pretty much laughed and said they couldn't see any 
reason to support us.

George

John Scrivner wrote:
 As far as I am concerned this is spam. Tranzeo is NOT a paid vendor
 member of WISPA and as such gets no free ads here. Even if they were a
 member this is not how approved ads are sent to our list membership.
 Please refrain from sending out vendor ads to our list without board
 approval.
 Thank you,
 John Scrivner
 
 
 
 On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Jerry Richardson
 jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote:
 Dear Valued Customer,



 Tranzeo went through the cupboards and did some spring cleaning. We have
 the following surplus stock of NEW radios and are offering them at an
 incredible one time Savings to you DIRECT from our factory. (These
 radios will not be offered through the distributor Channel).

 Item

 One-Time Price

 # Available

 TR-900-N

  $199.00

 84

 TR-6000

  $106.00

 60

 TR-5a-N

  $112.00

43

 TR-5800

  $125.00

 42

 TR-CPQ-N

  $ 98.00

 40

 TR-SL5-N

  $109.00

240

 TR-6619

  $165.00

124

 TR-CPE90-15

  $ 79.00

 21

 TR-5amp-N

  $300.00

 18

 TR-5amp-24

  $300.00

 14

 TR-SL5-16

  $109.00

 18

 TR-5amp-24

  $300.00

 10

 TR-6500

  $300.00

   9

 TR-5amp-N

  $300.00

 15

 TR-5a-24

  $154.00

   6

 TR-5plus-20

  $192.00

 70

 TR-CPQ-N

  $ 98.00

   3

 EL-500ag / TR-24H-120-13

  $250.00

113

 TR-6600

  $115.00

   1



 To Order Now call Tranzeo direct or e-mail us at sa...@tranzeo.com.

 Sincerely,

 The Tranzeo Team

 Tranzeo Wireless Technologies Inc. (TSX:TZT)
 19473 Fraser Way
 Pitt Meadows BC Canada V3Y 2V4
 T: 604.460.6002
 F: 604.460.6005
 Toll Free Sales:  1 866.872.6936
 sa...@tranzeo.com http://sugar/sa...@tranzeo.com
 www.tranzeo.com http://sugar/www.tranzeo.com

 To remove yourself from this email list click here
 http://sugar/index.php?entryPoint=removemeidentifier=f28f0d07-1baf-8f0
 3-b122-49ec65384c98

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Re: [WISPA] Insurance on equipment

2009-04-19 Thread George Rogato
I was thinking the opposite Kurt, most of the wisps here are quite 
succcesful.

Seriously, those who cry poor mouth, are the exception.


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
 Yeah but most Wisps operators are some of the financially worst off people I
 have ever met. I agree on not making a bunch of small claims, same holds
 true with your automobile policy. I remember Mac said once that he actually
 got APC to pay out on their equipment protection guarantee and he got
 something like $15k from it and he said even he couldn't believe it.
 
 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com
  
  
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of John Scrivner
 Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:23 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance on equipment
 
 I carry a very high deductible (like $10K per incident). I keep
 insurance strictly for liability coverage and for catastrophic
 coverage like if our office burns down or a tornado comes through and
 wipes everything out. My rates are low and I do not plan to ever make
 a claim. Insurance companies are in business to make money like
 everyone else. If you use it on small claims then you eat away their
 profit and they have little choice but to consider you as a higher
 risk. Cable TV companies and power companies do not make frequent
 small claims. They take the same approach as I outline above I think.
 At a minimum you MUST have liability coverage in order to locate on
 leased space on towers, poles, etc. There is value in them covering
 you for up to a million or two in liability even if a claim is never
 made. I hope that WISPs think hard about how they interact with
 insurance companies and how we as an industry are perceived by our
 carriers. If WISPs as an industry are seen as companies who make
 frequent claims for any loss then I am guessing this will become a
 factor in how all WISPs are rated for insurance. Do yourselves a favor
 and plan NOT to make claims on insurance. Buy extra gear for your
 towers for replacements and budget a percentage of your gear as having
 to be replaced each year for upgrades, loss, etc. It is cheaper to
 self-insure your gear than to think you can have your insurance carry
 you for every little claim for lightening damage and such.
 Scriv
 
 
 On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com
 wrote:
 Typical legal organized crime insurance companies. As long as you are
 paying them and not filing a claim, everything is happy go lucky. File one
 claim and they want to jack your rates through the roof or cancel your
 policy. How do they get away with this stuff? I have 1st hand experience
 with it. I can't believe all are like that, but all I have ever dealt with
 are. If anyone knows of a professional insurance company that provides
 what they say without the crap mentioned above, please let me know.
 Scott

 -- Original Message --
 From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date:  Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:13:02 -0400

 What I have heard from other WISPs is that once you do a big claim they
 cancel your policy.  I've heard it from multiple angels from multiple
 companies so I've always believed it to be true.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Charles Wyble
 char...@thewybles.comwrote:
 Why would one find another insurer?

 I do believe they can do a search on claims you have filed and charge
 accordingly. So changing insurers most likely won't help.



 Josh Luthman wrote:
 What we do and what I've been suggested is hold onto an insurance
 policy
 and
 use it when you really have to.  If an AP or two and some CPEs go bad,
 don't
 claim it as it your rates will rise or the policy may be canceled.

 If you lost an entire tower and hundreds of thousands of dollars (or
 whatever size completely kicks your bucket) then claim it and prepare
 to
 find another insurer.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Alan Long alan.l...@aerowire.net
 wrote:
 All gear.

 
 Aerowire
 Alan Long
 Director of Network Operations
 alan.l...@aerowire.net
 687 North Dean Road
 Auburn, AL 36830
 tel: 3342759998
 mobile: 336092
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Charles Wyble
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:30 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance on equipment

 I'm guessing you mean 

Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE

2009-04-10 Thread George Rogato
http://nanog.org/mailinglist/

Gino Villarini wrote:
 Matt
 
 Where could one subscribe to such a list? NaNog List 
 
 
 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of mlio...@r337.com
 Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:13 AM
 To: scubac...@gmail.com; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE
 
 All the hard core routing and switching experts I know laugh when 
 someone suggests Cisco.

 Cisco is like the WalMart of networking equipment.  If you need 
 something, chances are that they have something there that will mostly
 
 do what it is that you need.  But if you need something for some 
 specialized need, then chances are you need to go to Juniper, Foundry,
 
 Nortel, etc.

 Of course if you had sent the above to the NANOG list they would be
 laughing at you. Cisco and Juniper alone are the reining champs of the
 high-end routing world. Foundry and Nortel are simply not even
 considered.
 Right now, the Cisco CRS-1 is considered the best equipment available.
 
 Regardless, talking about super high-end routers when Mike is only
 looking for a few 10 GigE ports is silly. A Cisco 6500/7600 with
 sup720-3bxl along with your 10 GigE card of choice is typically what is
 deployed today.
 There is a newer option from Cisco using one of the ASR series routers.
 Those will cost you roughly $25k to get started in any reasonable
 configuration. Whereas the sup720-3bxl option will likely cost you only
 $25k well equiped with a variety of ports. I would guess a sup720-3bxl
 platform with 48 10/100/1000 ports, 48 SFP ports, and 4 10 GigE ports
 would run about $30k used.
 
 It is worth noting that the sup720-3bxl has enough TCAM to support up to
 1 million routes and has a backplane that can support 720Gbps.
 
 -Matt
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE

2009-04-09 Thread George Rogato
Question that comes to mind,

What size processor or machine  is needed to do 10GigE's?



Mike Hammett wrote:
 Any recommendations for routers that have multiple 10 GigE interfaces?  I 
 believe the PowerRouter can only do 3 and I'm looking for at least 4, even up 
 to 8 or 10.  I didn't see anything from ImageStream that went that high.

 I don't need to do 100 Gigs of throughput, but if you need 1 GigE of commit, 
 you really need a 10 GigE for bursting.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 
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Re: [WISPA] FW: 10 GigE

2009-04-09 Thread George Rogato
So what price range are we talking for such an animal?


Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 I don't think this went out to the list: 


 Hey Tom.

 We just pushed over 7 Gbps full duplex over 18 GigE ports in the lab, so
 we're fast approaching that 10 GigE mark. With small packets, the same
 system forwarded around over 2.3 million PPS. With PCI Express, our systems
 are generally limited by CPU and memory speed instead of being bus limited.
 This means that as long as we can get faster CPUs and memory, we can move
 more packets over PCI Express interfaces.

 The PCIe bus can support 250 MBps full duplex over a single x1 lane, which
 is the same as 2 Gbps (B = Byte and b = bit) full duplex. The widest PCI
 Express bus we support currently is x16, which provides up to
 32 Gbps full duplex. We don't currently have any cards that require this
 much bandwidth, but again, this performance is CPU and memory limited.

 The 7 Gbps Jeff mentioned is actually not a published performance spec
 because we are having issues with our test bed. The 10 GigE cards we are
 testing have multiple stream processors in them, and they are not designed
 to be able to forward 10 GigE with a single IP stream. We don't have 10 GigE
 cards for our Smartbits 6000, so we are testing with a NeStream 10 GigE test
 system. This system has not made it easy to control the flows, and we may
 need additional software to support the testing we need to do.

 In any case, we expect to get to 10 GigE at wire speed with large packets
 yet this year. Our vendors claim to have achieved this level of performance,
 so we should be able to get to the same throughput. I can't really comment
 on small packet performance, other than to say we've seen over 500 Mbps full
 duplex throughput with pure 64-byte traffic on our GigE ports, so I expect
 to be able to forward at least this much traffic with our 10 GigE cards.

 Also, don't forget that we are talking about 10 GigE in and out with this
 test. So when you look at a 10 GigE number like 7 Gbps, we actually
 forwarding 7 Gbps full duplex in and out, or a total of 28 Gbps of aggregate
 traffic.

 jc


 Jeff Broadwick wrote:
   
 Hi Tom,

 We think we will eventually be able to saturate a 10 Gig link (PCIe), but
 you aren't going to go much higher than that.

 Jeff
 ImageStream 

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 2:30 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE

 And that is not likely an Imagestream specific limit, but a general PC
 archetecture limit. A lot of high end gear will max out by then or before.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Jeff Broadwick jeffl...@comcast.net
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 2:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE


   
 
 Hi Mike,

 Depends on packet size.  We have 10 Gig cards that we can put in our
 routers, but we can't run one full out yet.  About the best we've seen in
 the lab is 7 Gigs full duplex, in optimal conditions.

 Jeff
 ImageStream

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:23 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] 10 GigE

 Any recommendations for routers that have multiple 10 GigE interfaces?  I
 believe the PowerRouter can only do 3 and I'm looking for at least 4,
   
 even
   
 up to 8 or 10.  I didn't see anything from ImageStream that went that 
 high.

 I don't need to do 100 Gigs of throughput, but if you need 1 GigE of 
 commit,
 you really need a 10 GigE for bursting.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 
   
 
   
   
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] whats your longest uptime?

2009-04-08 Thread George Rogato
Here's a guy that has a 1000 day up time.

http://forums.star-os.com/showpost.php?p=66695postcount=1


Travis Johnson wrote:
 Tower mounted AP = 500+ days.
 Customer prem switch = 5+ years.
 Tower router = 321 days
 
 Travis
 Microserv
 
 
 Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
 Whats your longest recorded uptime for a tower mounted router? I got a RB433
 with 173 days up since the day the site was installed. Its got a little 7ah
 battery on in case power fails. 

  

 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com

  

  

  

   

 

 



 
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Re: [WISPA] Big Brother's coming...

2009-04-06 Thread George Rogato
Tom DeReggi wrote:
 Next thing you know, in real time, every time you pass a traffic light, 
 they'll also be checking instant verification on
   
or

License  Plate Scanners




http://www.itemlive.com/articles/2009/02/09/news/news01.txt



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Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth

2009-03-29 Thread George Rogato
I would be looking at SBA loans.

I understand that SBA is being revamped to 90% loan guarantee and other 
fees being wiped.

And don't forget there is the stimulus and wispa has a grant and 
legislative committee.

Hope this is helpful.

George

sa...@michianawireless.com wrote:
 With this in mind what is the best financing option for fiber deployments? 
 Our current leasing providers are not interested because of it being fiber? 
 So what is a viable finance option for your own fiber deployments?
 
 John
 
 - Original Message -
 From: John Scrivner j...@scrivner.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:15:24 AM GMT -05:00 Columbia
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cost of bandwidth
 
 Have you priced building your own fiber? If costs are that high and
 fiber transport is that scarce then you could certainly find many who
 would buy an exit ramp on your information super-highway if you
 build your own fiber. It has a life cycle of up to 30 plus years so
 you should be able to stretch out the loan over many years. I am
 looking at this myself. I think that it makes sense on long runs like
 this to consider fiber. Pricing has come down considerably. Just my 2
 cents worth.
 Scriv
 
 
 On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote:
 Because it's 200+ miles away and crosses state lines. It would be at
 least 10 hops. Tower space is roughly $250/month around here so
 that's $2,500 per month just for the towers... then you have
 maintenance, equipment cost ($100k) and it would only save me about
 $1,000 per month.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Harold Bledsoe wrote:
 Those of you that are paying $50/Mbps, what is keeping you from
 building your own backhaul to cheaper bandwidth (wireless, dark fiber,
 etc.)?  It seems to me that this would be a major consideration in the
 business plan as this is a big MRC.  Don't wait for someone to bring you
 cheap bandwidth...go get it!  :-)

 -Hal



 
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Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex

2009-03-28 Thread George Rogato
So Ubiquiti may be an answer then. Assuming they do have their cards 
certified.



lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:
 4.9 GHz is covered by Part 90 and does not need to be a certified system 
 only the emitter needs to be certfied.
 
 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com
 
 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:46:17 
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex
 
 
 StarOS will do 4.9ghz FD no problem.
 
 The X4000 and X2000 units can both do this.  They are FCC approved, 
 although someone would probably argue that they may not be approved with 
 all of the 4.9ghz antennas.   I know it works, and we use it combined 
 with Tranzeo 4.9 CPE radios for our local city government and county 
 government.   I also know that StarOS is being used all around Boston to 
 deliver highway cameras and security cameras back to monitoring 
 locations for government entities, so it is out there in use by many 
 parties and is not a homebrew solution as some here will suggest.
 
 If you have to get FDD in 4.9ghz, this will do it.
 
 Matt Larsen
 vistabeam.com
 
 Matt Jenkins wrote:
 I would like to see some test cases with real world stats on these. If 
 they do what they claim it would make them a very appealing choice.

 3-dB Networks wrote:
   
 Yes it is MIMO.  It operates in the same channel in Horizontal and
 Vertical... much like Orthogon et. al.

 Your right though... its sales fluff (which in this case though could be
 helpful sales fluff).  Guess I got caught up in it without really thinking
 about that :-)

 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 http://www.3dbnetworks.com


 
 
 
 
 
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