Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Thinking out of the box ... GigabitPTMP? Possible solution that could be done today.
Brian, do you have any pricing info on this product? I know it wont be $100 cpe but $3000 cpe wont cut it either Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy List; memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... GigabitPTMP? Possible solution that could be done today. So I have been thinking about this idea and here's what could be done. Disclaimer: This won't be sub $100 CPE and it won't scale economically for rural areas. This is metro market high customer density stuff. The 24 GHz band has 250 MHz of spectrum available as unlicensed (available today). It is designated for PTP. Navini and SkyPilot have successfully won arguments with the FCC to get their multipoint systems certified as PTP using logic that only one client talks to the base at one time. The JRC system is TDD and even more able to make the argument that only one base and CPE are talking on any frequency at one time. The JRC system can deliver up to 46 mb throughput per channel. Channels are 26 MHz wide, so you could easily build up a 6 sector or more system. Each JRC base station/sector can support 239 CPE's. The product is available today and would only have to be moved down from the 26 GHz they use it on in Japan (JRC has already stated they can do this). The challenge is getting the units FCC certified for use in the 24 GHz band as a PTP system. If a person or group hired the lab/lawyer who got Navini and SkyPilot approved they should have a good shot at getting this done. The FCC has already set precedent to do this. TDD is more easily argued that it is a PTP system on any given frequency at any given time. 24 GHz is a signal that is easily contained and manageable from a noise perspective. There are no consumer level devices operating in this band. This band is available today, no waiting for public policy and political whims to make spectrum available. This would be innovation. It could be done so fast that pundits or competitors could not use their political influence to thwart the effort. This could happen before they knew what hit them. Trees and buildings will be an issue as is distance with the propagation, but where else can you try to make something like this work today with already developed product and 250 MHz of spectrum? It's certainly an idea worth considering and could compete for high bandwidth customers in metro markets against cable and fiber. You decide, is the glass half empty or half full? http://www.jrc.co.jp/eng/product/26g_fwa/index.html Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Having that many GHz of spectrum would be nice. However, I would expect it to be limited to industrial parks or anywhere where foliage is not present. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Multipoint_Distribution_Service I would imagine that the cost to develop a new line of technology (or the original 802.16, which was meant for 10 GHz and up) would be quite expensive. Given the small range for that high priced gear, it's probably more cost effective to just bury fiber. Nextlink (XO) is the major LMDS holder in the US. I'm not sure who else has spectrum. I'd look at these sites as well... http://www.lmdswireless.com/index.php https://www.lmdsxchange.com/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:34 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Today i have been pondering the idea to provide a wireless alternative to FTTH... At least a short range (up to 1 mile) 100 - 500 mbps wireless PTMP system to the home to provide triple play services. With todays current products, I ll say it cant be done... but is there an alterenative? Couple of ideas came in to my mind ... Rebirth of LMDS? AFAIK LMDS has not had great success on the states, spectrum was bidded, some gear was tested... no big networks were built ...but all this was almost 10 years ago, with today technology could a cost effective platform be developed to provide GIgabit PTMP on LMDS? MIMO Radio + 256qam + big spectrum means big bandwidth PTMP 24 ghz? Could a PTMP UL 24 ghz be developed? upconvert and bond multiple 802.11n based links with a polling mac? Anyone would like to add
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Thinking out of the box ... GigabitPTMP? Possible solution that could be done today.
Gino, No I do not have any pricing information. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Gino Villarini [mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com] Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 2:16 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; memb...@wispa.org; WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy List Subject: RE: [WISPA Members] [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... GigabitPTMP? Possible solution that could be done today. Brian, do you have any pricing info on this product? I know it wont be $100 cpe but $3000 cpe wont cut it either Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy List; memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... GigabitPTMP? Possible solution that could be done today. So I have been thinking about this idea and here's what could be done. Disclaimer: This won't be sub $100 CPE and it won't scale economically for rural areas. This is metro market high customer density stuff. The 24 GHz band has 250 MHz of spectrum available as unlicensed (available today). It is designated for PTP. Navini and SkyPilot have successfully won arguments with the FCC to get their multipoint systems certified as PTP using logic that only one client talks to the base at one time. The JRC system is TDD and even more able to make the argument that only one base and CPE are talking on any frequency at one time. The JRC system can deliver up to 46 mb throughput per channel. Channels are 26 MHz wide, so you could easily build up a 6 sector or more system. Each JRC base station/sector can support 239 CPE's. The product is available today and would only have to be moved down from the 26 GHz they use it on in Japan (JRC has already stated they can do this). The challenge is getting the units FCC certified for use in the 24 GHz band as a PTP system. If a person or group hired the lab/lawyer who got Navini and SkyPilot approved they should have a good shot at getting this done. The FCC has already set precedent to do this. TDD is more easily argued that it is a PTP system on any given frequency at any given time. 24 GHz is a signal that is easily contained and manageable from a noise perspective. There are no consumer level devices operating in this band. This band is available today, no waiting for public policy and political whims to make spectrum available. This would be innovation. It could be done so fast that pundits or competitors could not use their political influence to thwart the effort. This could happen before they knew what hit them. Trees and buildings will be an issue as is distance with the propagation, but where else can you try to make something like this work today with already developed product and 250 MHz of spectrum? It's certainly an idea worth considering and could compete for high bandwidth customers in metro markets against cable and fiber. You decide, is the glass half empty or half full? http://www.jrc.co.jp/eng/product/26g_fwa/index.html Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Having that many GHz of spectrum would be nice. However, I would expect it to be limited to industrial parks or anywhere where foliage is not present. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Multipoint_Distribution_Service I would imagine that the cost to develop a new line of technology (or the original 802.16, which was meant for 10 GHz and up) would be quite expensive. Given the small range for that high priced gear, it's probably more cost effective to just bury fiber. Nextlink (XO) is the major LMDS holder in the US. I'm not sure who else has spectrum. I'd look at these sites as well... http://www.lmdswireless.com/index.php https://www.lmdsxchange.com/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:34 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Thinking out of the box ... Gigabit PTMP? Today i have been pondering the idea to provide a wireless alternative to FTTH... At least a short range (up to 1 mile) 100 - 500 mbps wireless PTMP system to the home to provide triple play services. With todays current products, I ll say it cant be done... but is there an alterenative? Couple of ideas came in to my mind ... Rebirth of LMDS? AFAIK LMDS has not had great success on the states, spectrum
