Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 09:04:35AM -0400, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? The tower at my house has gear plugged into the GFCI outlet nearby. It seems to trip once every three or four months. I've done some looking online for possible causes and the most likely sounding explanation was that the equipment on the tower is grounded to the tower and the tower ground system is not connected to the electrical service ground. The AC panel is grounded to the electrical service ground rod on the other end of the house. I did not run the 80 feet of ground wire to connect the tower ground system to the electrical service ground rod. I would have to break up some patio area to reach reach the electrical service ground rod. The postulation on the web forum was that in cases such as that, there could be a very small difference in ground potential between the two sets of grounds. They suggested that the proper solution would be to correctly connect the electrical service ground to the tower ground. Under certain circumstances the ground potential difference could be increasing just enough to cause the GFCI to sense a fault. The last three times it happenned it was at around 8 AM which is about when the tower end of the house gets fully bathed in the first morning sunlight. The service ground area is still fully shaded for another 3 hours. My best guess is that the temperature change / difference is causing ground potential variations. I have a 3/4 inch copper, cold water, pipe running from one end of the house to the other which I could use to connect the two ground systems, but I haven't done the research to figure out if that is safe. The cold water pipe is plastic before it makes ground contact. So, the pipe itself is not a good place to find an electrical ground. -- Scott LambertKC5MLE Unix SysAdmin lamb...@lambertfam.org ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Scott, Im not quite so sure. If current flows back through the ground rather than neutral, that will trip the GFCI. The ground is BAD as far as the GFCI is, so the dryer cant be a 3-wire. The hypothetical situation was an Ungrounded hair dryer and plastic pipes (which would have to be totally dry no moisture). Then, current flow would be only back through neutral and, therefore, no pop. With any other slight variance and it would pop such as moisture from the faucet to the water line along the surface of the tub. . . . j o n a t h a n _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages GFCI works by comparing the current on the hot side and the neutral side. If they are different by more than a very small amount, it trips. Even the static discharge from walking across the carpet and touch a protected device can create enough current on the neutral side to trip some devices. The water in the tub doesn't have to be ground if the hair dryer has a 3 wire cord. There can be current through the water to the dryer's ground, thus creating the imbalance needed to trip the device. The last time I read the NEC, you can string outlets off a GFCI outlet, up to a maximum of 4. After that you need another GFCI. On 3/17/2012 9:41 PM, Jonathan Schmidt wrote: GFCIs you cant live with them and cant live without them. A real problem is that they wear out something that isnt well known. Old GFCIs may pop prematurely or fail to pop. TEST THEM YEARLY! About the hair dryer in the bathtub assuming the water is ground, I cant imagine that exactly the same current from the hot side will 100% flow back on the neutral because, if it isnt, the thing will pop. What am I missing about the bridge and the sensitivity? I had my sister have all her old house sockets (at least the head of a string) equipped with GFCIs. I took a cheap tester to her house and almost 50% of the AC sockets were wired wrong so they needed fixing, too. Many had grounded outlets that had no ground, and ½ had the pins backwards! I guess the folks who sold them the house in 1985 did a band-aid job. If you have customers with older houses and old GFCIs supplying their modem/router, you should encourage them to test and replace before calling you. Anyway, every time my sister had a thunderstorm, the office GFCI would pop probably because the computer was grounded through the cable router and cable modem. The socket was behind a very large, heavy bookcase. Im proud of her, because, by the second time, she got a drill with a ¾ bit and put a hole in the backboard to allow pushing the reset with a pencil eraser. Hence, my recommendation to have your customers understand this since the GFCI that runs your service is the most likely to pop in a thunderstorm. . . . j o n a t h a n _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages GFCI's are to detect and prevent leakage currents. They monitor the current in the hot and the neutral lines. Ever stood barefoot on the ground and held a drill or saw and gotten shocked? A GFCI, working properly, will prevent that from killing you, or even shocking you for more than a few mS In properly working equipment, basic electrical theory shows that the current in the hot line and current in the neutral lines must be equal. If the currents are not equal, then current is 'leaking;' out of the circuit. The GFCI senses the imbalance and interrupts the circuit to stop the leakage. They are not perfect, though. You can hook up an old 2 prong hair dryer and drop it in a bathtub full of water without tripping the GFCI if you know how. I was an electrician for the Navy for years... I won't plug a tower into one. Every time the lighting flashes for 30 miles around, they trip... On 3/16/2012 11:45 AM, DJ Anderson wrote: I thought GFCI's were to protect circuits from moisture mainly, AFAIK they do not provide any type of protection for devices other than cutting the circuit if it senses a ground fault. DJ Anderson Shelby Broadband On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ben West b...@gowasabi.net wrote: To add to the anecdotal evidence against cheap GFCI outlets, I had to remove one in a building when spontaneous trips started occurring randomly (e.g. once every couple weeks) after an adjacent building received a direct lightening strike. For that matter, the GFCI contributed nothing to lightening protection, still lost a bunch of equipment. -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
You'll need a solar powered battery pack if totally remote but instead of a cell phone... you just need a 4g modem. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Victoria Proffer victo...@stlbroadband.com wrote: Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? ** ** i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer ** ** Victoria Proffer 314-974-5600 ** -- Robert Q Kim Event Marketing Company NYC and LA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-4z-ZwF5VA 2611 S Coast Highway San Diego, CA 92007 310 598 1606 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
I have not seen those... but there are GMS Controlled Relays that can be used to turn things on and off.. We use such devices... Just google for 'GSM Remote Switch' or better yet search on Ebay for 'gsm remote switch' Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Victoria Proffer victo...@stlbroadband.com mailto:victo...@stlbroadband.com wrote: Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer Victoria Proffer 314-974-5600 -- Robert Q Kim Event Marketing Company NYC and LA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-4z-ZwF5VA 2611 S Coast Highway San Diego, CA 92007 310 598 1606 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Troy, Related to GFI We've removed all GFIs from our implemntations for this reason. We try to redesign our isntall plan to a way that code wont require the GFIs. As far as Dragonwave versus Mikrotik, one rebooting and not the other. The Dragonwave draws more current than the Mikrotik to operate, so its not surprising, if a short brownout spike occurred that the power flowing was enough to keep the mikrotik running, but not the Dragonwave. One way to help with that is to have a overspec'd UPS. Running a UPS at 44%, power storage capacity in its capacitor's will be less sufficient to cover for power drops, than if the UPS was run at a lower load. Another way to deal with it is to modify the setup to a Dual realtime power feed situation, so better chance one of teh two systems will deliver power, before a switch to battery, or if a breaker trips on one of the power circuits. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Troy Settle To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Next stupid outage at a different site. Specs: Generac 8KW generator Automatic Transfer Switch APC 450 rack mount UPS Mikrotik RB1200 Mikrotik RB435 (3x 802.11n sectors) Dragonwave Compact Horizon #1 Dragonwave Compact Horizon #2 (I don't know how many horses, chickens, goats, pigs, and other critters are onsite, but I don't think they're an issue). Total load on the UPS is at 44%, estimated run is 25 minutes (long enough for the generator and switch to do their thing). Radios grounded to the tower, tower grounded and bonded to the shack. Shack has two rods (panel - Rod - Rod - Generator). Everything inside is bonded as well, including the drain wires on all the Cat-5. Yesterday, the Dragonwaves rebooted several times during the storm, but neither RB lost power even once. Any guesses? I'm sleeping on it over the weekend, but probably need to get it figured out before too many more storms come over the mountains. Thanks, -Troy From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Troy Settle Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:05 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net -- ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
GFCI works by comparing the current on the hot side and the neutral side. If they are different by more than a very small amount, it trips. Even the static discharge from walking across the carpet and touch a protected device can create enough current on the neutral side to trip some devices. The water in the tub doesn't have to be ground if the hair dryer has a 3 wire cord. There can be current through the water to the dryer's ground, thus creating the imbalance needed to trip the device. The last time I read the NEC, you can string outlets off a GFCI outlet, up to a maximum of 4. After that you need another GFCI. On 3/17/2012 9:41 PM, Jonathan Schmidt wrote: GFCIs...you can't live with them and can't live without them. A real problem is that they wear out...something that isn't well known. Old GFCIs may pop prematurely or fail to pop. TEST THEM YEARLY! About the hair dryer in the bathtub...assuming the water is ground, I can't imagine that exactly the same current from the hot side will 100% flow back on the neutral because, if it isn't, the thing will pop. What am I missing about the bridge and the sensitivity? I had my sister have all her old house sockets (at least the head of a string) equipped with GFCIs. I took a cheap tester to her house and almost 50% of the AC sockets were wired wrong so they needed fixing, too. Many had grounded outlets that had no ground, and ½ had the pins backwards! I guess the folks who sold them the house in 1985 did a band-aid job. If you have customers with older houses and old GFCIs supplying their modem/router, you should encourage them to test and replace before calling you. Anyway, every time my sister had a thunderstorm, the office GFCI would pop...probably because the computer was grounded through the cable router and cable modem. The socket was behind a very large, heavy bookcase. I'm proud of her, because, by the second time, she got a drill with a ¾ bit and put a hole in the backboard to allow pushing the reset with a pencil eraser. Hence, my recommendation to have your customers understand this since the GFCI that runs your service is the most likely to pop in a thunderstorm. . . . j o n a t h a n *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Blair Davis *Sent:* Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:37 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages GFCI's are to detect and prevent leakage currents. They monitor the current in the hot and the neutral lines. Ever stood barefoot on the ground and held a drill or saw and gotten shocked? A GFCI, working properly, will prevent that from killing you, or even shocking you for more than a few mS In properly working equipment, basic electrical theory shows that the current in the hot line and current in the neutral lines must be equal. If the currents are not equal, then current is 'leaking;' out of the circuit. The GFCI senses the imbalance and interrupts the circuit to stop the leakage. They are not perfect, though. You can hook up an old 2 prong hair dryer and drop it in a bathtub full of water without tripping the GFCI if you know how. I was an electrician for the Navy for years... I won't plug a tower into one. Every time the lighting flashes for 30 miles around, they trip... On 3/16/2012 11:45 AM, DJ Anderson wrote: I thought GFCI's were to protect circuits from moisture mainly, AFAIK they do not provide any type of protection for devices other than cutting the circuit if it senses a ground fault. DJ Anderson Shelby Broadband On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ben West b...@gowasabi.net mailto:b...@gowasabi.net wrote: To add to the anecdotal evidence against cheap GFCI outlets, I had to remove one in a building when spontaneous trips started occurring randomly (e.g. once every couple weeks) after an adjacent building received a direct lightening strike. For that matter, the GFCI contributed nothing to lightening protection, still lost a bunch of equipment. -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net mailto:b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- West Michigan Wireless ISP Allegan,Michigan49010 269-686-8648 A Division of: Camp Communication Services, INC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4876 - Release Date: 03/17/12
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
GFCI's are to detect and prevent leakage currents. They monitor the current in the hot and the neutral lines. Ever stood barefoot on the ground and held a drill or saw and gotten shocked? A GFCI, working properly, will prevent that from killing you, or even shocking you for more than a few mS In properly working equipment, basic electrical theory shows that the current in the hot line and current in the neutral lines must be equal. If the currents are not equal, then current is 'leaking;' out of the circuit. The GFCI senses the imbalance and interrupts the circuit to stop the leakage. They are not perfect, though. You can hook up an old 2 prong hair dryer and drop it in a bathtub full of water without tripping the GFCI if you know how. I was an electrician for the Navy for years... I won't plug a tower into one. Every time the lighting flashes for 30 miles around, they trip... On 3/16/2012 11:45 AM, DJ Anderson wrote: I thought GFCI's wereto protect circuits from moisture mainly, AFAIK they do not provide any type of protection for devices other than cutting the circuit if it senses a ground fault. DJ Anderson Shelby Broadband On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ben West b...@gowasabi.net wrote: To add to theanecdotal evidence against cheap GFCI outlets, I had to remove one in a building when spontaneous trips started occurring randomly (e.g. once every couple weeks) after an adjacent building received a direct lightening strike. For that matter, the GFCI contributed nothing to lightening protection, still lost a bunch of equipment. -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- West Michigan Wireless ISP Allegan, Michigan 49010 269-686-8648 A Division of: Camp Communication Services, INC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
GFCIs you cant live with them and cant live without them. A real problem is that they wear out something that isnt well known. Old GFCIs may pop prematurely or fail to pop. TEST THEM YEARLY! About the hair dryer in the bathtub assuming the water is ground, I cant imagine that exactly the same current from the hot side will 100% flow back on the neutral because, if it isnt, the thing will pop. What am I missing about the bridge and the sensitivity? I had my sister have all her old house sockets (at least the head of a string) equipped with GFCIs. I took a cheap tester to her house and almost 50% of the AC sockets were wired wrong so they needed fixing, too. Many had grounded outlets that had no ground, and ½ had the pins backwards! I guess the folks who sold them the house in 1985 did a band-aid job. If you have customers with older houses and old GFCIs supplying their modem/router, you should encourage them to test and replace before calling you. Anyway, every time my sister had a thunderstorm, the office GFCI would pop probably because the computer was grounded through the cable router and cable modem. The socket was behind a very large, heavy bookcase. Im proud of her, because, by the second time, she got a drill with a ¾ bit and put a hole in the backboard to allow pushing the reset with a pencil eraser. Hence, my recommendation to have your customers understand this since the GFCI that runs your service is the most likely to pop in a thunderstorm. . . . j o n a t h a n _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages GFCI's are to detect and prevent leakage currents. They monitor the current in the hot and the neutral lines. Ever stood barefoot on the ground and held a drill or saw and gotten shocked? A GFCI, working properly, will prevent that from killing you, or even shocking you for more than a few mS In properly working equipment, basic electrical theory shows that the current in the hot line and current in the neutral lines must be equal. If the currents are not equal, then current is 'leaking;' out of the circuit. The GFCI senses the imbalance and interrupts the circuit to stop the leakage. They are not perfect, though. You can hook up an old 2 prong hair dryer and drop it in a bathtub full of water without tripping the GFCI if you know how. I was an electrician for the Navy for years... I won't plug a tower into one. Every time the lighting flashes for 30 miles around, they trip... On 3/16/2012 11:45 AM, DJ Anderson wrote: I thought GFCI's were to protect circuits from moisture mainly, AFAIK they do not provide any type of protection for devices other than cutting the circuit if it senses a ground fault. DJ Anderson Shelby Broadband On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ben West b...@gowasabi.net wrote: To add to the anecdotal evidence against cheap GFCI outlets, I had to remove one in a building when spontaneous trips started occurring randomly (e.g. once every couple weeks) after an adjacent building received a direct lightening strike. For that matter, the GFCI contributed nothing to lightening protection, still lost a bunch of equipment. -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- West Michigan Wireless ISP Allegan, Michigan 49010 269-686-8648 A Division of: Camp Communication Services, INC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Often, in homes with plastic pipes, the water in the tub is NOT grounded! On 3/17/2012 9:41 PM, Jonathan Schmidt wrote: GFCIsyou cant live with them and cant live without them. A real problem is that they wear outsomething that isnt well known. Old GFCIs may pop prematurely or fail to pop. TEST THEM YEARLY! About the hair dryer in the bathtubassuming the water is ground, I cant imagine that exactly the same current from the hot side will 100% flow back on the neutral because, if it isnt, the thing will pop. What am I missing about the bridge and the sensitivity? I had my sister have all her old house sockets (at least the head of a string) equipped with GFCIs. I took a cheap tester to her house and almost 50% of the AC sockets were wired wrong so they needed fixing, too. Many had grounded outlets that had no ground, and had the pins backwards! I guess the folks who sold them the house in 1985 did a band-aid job. If you have customers with older houses and old GFCIs supplying their modem/router, you should encourage them to test and replace before calling you. Anyway, every time my sister had a thunderstorm, the office GFCI would popprobably because the computer was grounded through the cable router and cable modem. The socket was behind a very large, heavy bookcase. Im proud of her, because, by the second time, she got a drill with a bit and put a hole in the backboard to allow pushing the reset with a pencil eraser. Hence, my recommendation to have your customers understand this since the GFCI that runs your service is the most likely to pop in a thunderstorm. . . . j o n a t h a n From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages GFCI's are to detect and prevent leakage currents. They monitor the current in the hot and the neutral lines. Ever stood barefoot on the ground and held a drill or saw and gotten shocked? A GFCI, working properly, will prevent that from killing you, or even shocking you for more than a few mS In properly working equipment, basic electrical theory shows that the current in the hot line and current in the neutral lines must be equal. If the currents are not equal, then current is 'leaking;' out of the circuit. The GFCI senses the imbalance and interrupts the circuit to stop the leakage. They are not perfect, though. You can hook up an old 2 prong hair dryer and drop it in a bathtub full of water without tripping the GFCI if you know how
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Oops that tells you Im an old F@#rt. Thanks, Blair, youre right. Hadnt thought of that. . . . j o n a t h a n _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 9:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Often, in homes with plastic pipes, the water in the tub is NOT grounded! On 3/17/2012 9:41 PM, Jonathan Schmidt wrote: GFCIs you cant live with them and cant live without them. A real problem is that they wear out something that isnt well known. Old GFCIs may pop prematurely or fail to pop. TEST THEM YEARLY! About the hair dryer in the bathtub assuming the water is ground, I cant imagine that exactly the same current from the hot side will 100% flow back on the neutral because, if it isnt, the thing will pop. What am I missing about the bridge and the sensitivity? I had my sister have all her old house sockets (at least the head of a string) equipped with GFCIs. I took a cheap tester to her house and almost 50% of the AC sockets were wired wrong so they needed fixing, too. Many had grounded outlets that had no ground, and ½ had the pins backwards! I guess the folks who sold them the house in 1985 did a band-aid job. If you have customers with older houses and old GFCIs supplying their modem/router, you should encourage them to test and replace before calling you. Anyway, every time my sister had a thunderstorm, the office GFCI would pop probably because the computer was grounded through the cable router and cable modem. The socket was behind a very large, heavy bookcase. Im proud of her, because, by the second time, she got a drill with a ¾ bit and put a hole in the backboard to allow pushing the reset with a pencil eraser. Hence, my recommendation to have your customers understand this since the GFCI that runs your service is the most likely to pop in a thunderstorm. . . . j o n a t h a n _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages GFCI's are to detect and prevent leakage currents. They monitor the current in the hot and the neutral lines. Ever stood barefoot on the ground and held a drill or saw and gotten shocked? A GFCI, working properly, will prevent that from killing you, or even shocking you for more than a few mS In properly working equipment, basic electrical theory shows that the current in the hot line and current in the neutral lines must be equal. If the currents are not equal, then current is 'leaking;' out of the circuit. The GFCI senses the imbalance and interrupts the circuit to stop the leakage. They are not perfect, though. You can hook up an old 2 prong hair dryer and drop it in a bathtub full of water without tripping the GFCI if you know how. I was an electrician for the Navy for years... I won't plug a tower into one. Every time the lighting flashes for 30 miles around, they trip... On 3/16/2012 11:45 AM, DJ Anderson wrote: I thought GFCI's were to protect circuits from moisture mainly, AFAIK they do not provide any type of protection for devices other than cutting the circuit if it senses a ground fault. DJ Anderson Shelby Broadband On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ben West b...@gowasabi.net wrote: To add to the anecdotal evidence against cheap GFCI outlets, I had to remove one in a building when spontaneous trips started occurring randomly (e.g. once every couple weeks) after an adjacent building received a direct lightening strike. For that matter, the GFCI contributed nothing to lightening protection, still lost a bunch of equipment. -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- West Michigan Wireless ISP Allegan, Michigan 49010 269-686-8648 A Division of: Camp Communication Services, INC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- West Michigan Wireless ISP Allegan, Michigan 49010 269-686-8648 A Division of: Camp Communication Services, INC ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
[WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
We don't use them at towers, but I have here at home auto resetting GFCI outlets for my Saltwater reef tank. Got them from Home Depot.. They reset automatically after a few mins.. Ryan On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.comwrote: You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer Victoria Proffer http://www.stlwimax.com/ STLWiMAX, LLC 314-974-5600 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages We don't use them at towers, but I have here at home auto resetting GFCI outlets for my Saltwater reef tank. Got them from Home Depot.. They reset automatically after a few mins.. Ryan On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 tel:%28276%29%20238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 tel:%28276%29%20237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
http://dataprobe.com/remote-reboot.html I've used some of their older 'iboots' havent' used their phone devices. On 3/16/2012 9:40, Victoria Proffer wrote: Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC http://www.stlwimax.com/ 314-974-5600 *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ghering *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages We don't use them at towers, but I have here at home auto resetting GFCI outlets for my Saltwater reef tank. Got them from Home Depot.. They reset automatically after a few mins.. Ryan On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 tel:%28276%29%20238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 tel:%28276%29%20237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net mailto:tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
The remote reboot power strip does nothing for you if the GFCI outlet or breaker has tripped, that needs to be reset unless it's an auto reset device. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Victoria Proffer Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC http://www.stlwimax.com/ 314-974-5600 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages We don't use them at towers, but I have here at home auto resetting GFCI outlets for my Saltwater reef tank. Got them from Home Depot.. They reset automatically after a few mins.. Ryan On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 tel:%28276%29%20238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 tel:%28276%29%20237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Can you set it on an auto-ping? Victoria Proffer http://www.stlwimax.com/ STLWiMAX, LLC 314-974-5600 From: Brian Webster [mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:02 AM To: victo...@stlbroadband.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages The remote reboot power strip does nothing for you if the GFCI outlet or breaker has tripped, that needs to be reset unless it's an auto reset device. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Victoria Proffer Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC http://www.stlwimax.com/ 314-974-5600 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages We don't use them at towers, but I have here at home auto resetting GFCI outlets for my Saltwater reef tank. Got them from Home Depot.. They reset automatically after a few mins.. Ryan On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 tel:%28276%29%20238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 tel:%28276%29%20237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
I don't think you understand. A GFCI outlet is a mechanical device. You can't reboot it. Regards, Chuck On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Victoria Proffer victo...@stlbroadband.com wrote: Can you set it on an auto-ping? ** ** Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC http://www.stlwimax.com/ 314-974-5600 ** ** *From:* Brian Webster [mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com] *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 9:02 AM *To:* victo...@stlbroadband.com; 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages ** ** The remote reboot power strip does nothing for you if the GFCI outlet or breaker has tripped, that needs to be reset unless it’s an auto reset device. ** ** Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com ** ** *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Victoria Proffer *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 9:40 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages ** ** Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? ** ** i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer ** ** Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC http://www.stlwimax.com/ 314-974-5600 ** ** *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ghering *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages ** ** We don't use them at towers, but I have here at home auto resetting GFCI outlets for my Saltwater reef tank. Got them from Home Depot.. They reset automatically after a few mins.. Ryan On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
One of these http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=gfci+outletoe=utf-8rls=org.mozilla:en-US:officialclient=firefox-aum=1ie=UTF-8tbm=shopcid=16532274097447588363sa=Xei=Ik5jT6H-Nubk0QHnkZWZCAved=0CIoBEPICMAI Where did you one that auto resets, Ryan? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I don't think you understand. A GFCI outlet is a mechanical device. You can't reboot it. Regards, Chuck On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Victoria Proffer victo...@stlbroadband.com wrote: Can you set it on an auto-ping? Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC 314-974-5600 From: Brian Webster [mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:02 AM To: victo...@stlbroadband.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages The remote reboot power strip does nothing for you if the GFCI outlet or breaker has tripped, that needs to be reset unless it’s an auto reset device. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Victoria Proffer Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC 314-974-5600 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages We don't use them at towers, but I have here at home auto resetting GFCI outlets for my Saltwater reef tank. Got them from Home Depot.. They reset automatically after a few mins.. Ryan On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack. You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Oh, yeah ... I see, so than you have to reset the circuit, which requires a flip. Victoria Proffer http://www.stlwimax.com/ STLWiMAX, LLC 314-974-5600 From: Chuck Hogg [mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:24 AM To: victo...@stlbroadband.com; WISPA General List Cc: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages I don't think you understand. A GFCI outlet is a mechanical device. You can't reboot it. Regards, Chuck On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Victoria Proffer victo...@stlbroadband.com wrote: Can you set it on an auto-ping? Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC http://www.stlwimax.com/ 314-974-5600 From: Brian Webster [mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:02 AM To: victo...@stlbroadband.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages The remote reboot power strip does nothing for you if the GFCI outlet or breaker has tripped, that needs to be reset unless it's an auto reset device. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Victoria Proffer Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC http://www.stlwimax.com/ 314-974-5600 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages We don't use them at towers, but I have here at home auto resetting GFCI outlets for my Saltwater reef tank. Got them from Home Depot.. They reset automatically after a few mins.. Ryan On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 tel:%28276%29%20238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 tel:%28276%29%20237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Yeah. Drop the GFCI. If an inspector whines about it get his home phone and tell him he'll have to meet you at the site every time it goes down because the GFCI technology is so worthless. It won't take but 2 trips and he'll beg you to take them out! And if you think it's bad now. Just wait till you have to put in arc fault breakers everywhere. The whole house has to have them nowadays. Can't even run a shop vac in my house if it's in one of the rooms with an arc fault. Half my skill saws won't work etc. Good ideas, both. Rotten overly sensitive implementation. The market for used arc faults will be huge sooner than later. Every homeowner with a screw driver will pull them all out and put in normal breakers :-). The NEC is getting to be worse than the dept. of ecology! marlon - Original Message - From: Troy Settle To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net -- ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
I like the digital loggers products a LOT better than dataprobe. Never had a DL unit start turning it's self off when it's not supposed to. I have had that with an iboot. marlon - Original Message - From: Jay DeBoer To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages http://dataprobe.com/remote-reboot.html I've used some of their older 'iboots' havent' used their phone devices. On 3/16/2012 9:40, Victoria Proffer wrote: Is there a remote power strip that can be activated by a cell phone? i.e. strip cell phone pstn my computer Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC 314-974-5600 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages We don't use them at towers, but I have here at home auto resetting GFCI outlets for my Saltwater reef tank. Got them from Home Depot.. They reset automatically after a few mins.. Ryan On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
But what happens if something shorts and it's traced down to the fact you removed the GFCI. I would not want to bet my business on it. I would have an outlet hardwired into a nema box. That should satisfy code, but I would check. Justin From: Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) o...@odessaoffice.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:00:39 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Yeah. Drop the GFCI. If an inspector whines about it get his home phone and tell him he'll have to meet you at the site every time it goes down because the GFCI technology is so worthless. It won't take but 2 trips and he'll beg you to take them out! And if you think it's bad now. Just wait till you have to put in arc fault breakers everywhere. The whole house has to have them nowadays. Can't even run a shop vac in my house if it's in one of the rooms with an arc fault. Half my skill saws won't work etc. Good ideas, both. Rotten overly sensitive implementation. The market for used arc faults will be huge sooner than later. Every homeowner with a screw driver will pull them all out and put in normal breakers :-). The NEC is getting to be worse than the dept. of ecology! marlon - Original Message - From: Troy Settle mailto:tset...@thewiredroad.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
That's what breakers are for - shorts. GFCIs are for quick blows for things like dropping something in water. I still don't understand why it would be required in a tower building. On 3/16/12 11:11 AM, Justin Wilson wrote: But what happens if something shorts and it's traced down to the fact you removed the GFCI. I would not want to bet my business on it. I would have an outlet hardwired into a nema box. That should satisfy code, but I would check. Justin From: Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) o...@odessaoffice.com mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:00:39 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Yeah. Drop the GFCI. If an inspector whines about it get his home phone and tell him he'll have to meet you at the site every time it goes down because the GFCI technology is so worthless. It won't take but 2 trips and he'll beg you to take them out! And if you think it's bad now. Just wait till you have to put in arc fault breakers everywhere. The whole house has to have them nowadays. Can't even run a shop vac in my house if it's in one of the rooms with an arc fault. Half my skill saws won't work etc. Good ideas, both. Rotten overly sensitive implementation. The market for used arc faults will be huge sooner than later. Every homeowner with a screw driver will pull them all out and put in normal breakers :-). The NEC is getting to be worse than the dept. of ecology! marlon - Original Message - *From:* Troy Settle mailto:tset...@thewiredroad.net *To:* wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 6:04 AM *Subject:* [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net mailto:tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Just replace it. It's probably failing. They're a pain when they start failing but when you get a good one they're fine. Greg On Mar 16, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
My point was if Code actually requires it, which in this case it may not, don't replace it because it's an inconvenience. You are potentially liable if something were to happen if you are the one who went against code. Instead find a workaround. If code doesn't require it, get an inspector to sign off. Justin -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:27:40 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages That's what breakers are for - shorts. GFCIs are for quick blows for things like dropping something in water. I still don't understand why it would be required in a tower building. On 3/16/12 11:11 AM, Justin Wilson wrote: But what happens if something shorts and it's traced down to the fact you removed the GFCI. I would not want to bet my business on it. I would have an outlet hardwired into a nema box. That should satisfy code, but I would check. Justin From: Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) o...@odessaoffice.com mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:00:39 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Yeah. Drop the GFCI. If an inspector whines about it get his home phone and tell him he'll have to meet you at the site every time it goes down because the GFCI technology is so worthless. It won't take but 2 trips and he'll beg you to take them out! And if you think it's bad now. Just wait till you have to put in arc fault breakers everywhere. The whole house has to have them nowadays. Can't even run a shop vac in my house if it's in one of the rooms with an arc fault. Half my skill saws won't work etc. Good ideas, both. Rotten overly sensitive implementation. The market for used arc faults will be huge sooner than later. Every homeowner with a screw driver will pull them all out and put in normal breakers :-). The NEC is getting to be worse than the dept. of ecology! marlon - Original Message - *From:* Troy Settle mailto:tset...@thewiredroad.net *To:* wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 6:04 AM *Subject:* [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net mailto:tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
On 03/16/2012 11:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: That's what breakers are for - shorts. GFCIs are for quick blows for things like dropping something in water. I still don't understand why it would be required in a tower building. I agree, there's fuse panel, why the heck is a GFCI needed too at a tower site? Are you sure this is code? My guess is some inspector has completely misread the code and is applying house code to a tower site! ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
To add to the anecdotal evidence against cheap GFCI outlets, I had to remove one in a building when spontaneous trips started occurring randomly (e.g. once every couple weeks) after an adjacent building received a direct lightening strike. For that matter, the GFCI contributed nothing to lightening protection, still lost a bunch of equipment. -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
I thought GFCI's were to protect circuits from moisture mainly, AFAIK they do not provide any type of protection for devices other than cutting the circuit if it senses a ground fault. DJ Anderson Shelby Broadband On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ben West b...@gowasabi.net wrote: To add to the anecdotal evidence against cheap GFCI outlets, I had to remove one in a building when spontaneous trips started occurring randomly (e.g. once every couple weeks) after an adjacent building received a direct lightening strike. For that matter, the GFCI contributed nothing to lightening protection, still lost a bunch of equipment. -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
This is true. The GFCI outlet happened to already be in the building when I installed equipment. It turns out the GFCI outlet itself could have benefited from lightening isolation. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:45 AM, DJ Anderson d...@shelbybb.com wrote: I thought GFCI's were to protect circuits from moisture mainly, AFAIK they do not provide any type of protection for devices other than cutting the circuit if it senses a ground fault. -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Thanks Matt! Yeah, the outlet itself is on a post next to the tower foundation and a dropcord feeds into a NEMA box mounted on the tower (no shack). We have a few sites set up like this, and I think I'm going to hardwire everything before we get much further into lightning season. Since posting, I spoke with an electrician who has done some other work for us, and he also suggested yanking the GFCI. I don't know why this was installed this way. I'm thinking that the electrician who did the original work was thinking more residential than industrial. I'll leave the GFCI outlet in place as a convenience outlet to provide the extra protection when we're out there working. -Troy -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:09 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: Troy Settle Subject: Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages You have to have GFCI outlets indoors? I've never heard of that regulation before. A few thoughts come to mind: * Battery backup with 2 or so hours of run time along with a remote page for a power outage. Doesn't prevent you from having to dispatch but it keeps you from having an outage. * Re-check code? I don't understand why you need a GFCI outlet inside your shack.You don't have a sink or other water nearby. I don't have GFCI outlets in my office. Maybe I'm missing something here. If you are mounting an outdoor NEMA box with your equipment and just plugging into a GFCI then maybe you can figure out some way to get a hardwire into the box rather than plugging into an outside GFCI? On 3/16/12 9:04 AM, Troy Settle wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
We put in a enclosure and that let us say it was 'indoors' and drop the gfci requirement. On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 6:04 AM, Troy Settle tset...@thewiredroad.net wrote: Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages
Next stupid outage at a different site. Specs: Generac 8KW generator Automatic Transfer Switch APC 450 rack mount UPS Mikrotik RB1200 Mikrotik RB435 (3x 802.11n sectors) Dragonwave Compact Horizon #1 Dragonwave Compact Horizon #2 (I don't know how many horses, chickens, goats, pigs, and other critters are onsite, but I don't think they're an issue). Total load on the UPS is at 44%, estimated run is 25 minutes (long enough for the generator and switch to do their thing). Radios grounded to the tower, tower grounded and bonded to the shack. Shack has two rods (panel - Rod - Rod - Generator). Everything inside is bonded as well, including the drain wires on all the Cat-5. Yesterday, the Dragonwaves rebooted several times during the storm, but neither RB lost power even once. Any guesses? I'm sleeping on it over the weekend, but probably need to get it figured out before too many more storms come over the mountains. Thanks, -Troy From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Troy Settle Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:05 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Preventing stupid outages Ok, so to keep to code, we have a GFCI outlet for most of our towers. One of them tripped last night, causing me to have to put on some 80 miles just to push a button (yes, it could have been much worse). Is there anything to prevent stupid outages like this from happening without violating code? Thanks, -- Troy Settle, Network Administrator The Wired Road Authority 1117 E. Stuart Dr. Galax, VA 24333 (276) 238-0049 (office) (276) 237-3890 (cell) tset...@thewiredroad.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
