RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be willing to pull out all of the stops on this. Clear down to a 60 Minutes exploding gas tank version of the truth. And because we, as an industry, aren't good at filling out our 477s we're not even give pimple on the but status these days. The current chairman at the FCC has turned out to be far less of a fan of the entrepenure than Powell was and that's not gonna help either. 1+ - Are there realistic options for WISPs to get licensed bands? mks: Not at this time. I know people have done so. But lets look at the real numbers here. Last I heard the latest auction raised 14 billion dollars. Lets say that over the next 5 years that spectrum services, oh, 500,000 subscribers. That's 28,000 per subscriber! At a profit of $10 per broadband subscriber per month that gives us a 2,800 month payback on the investment. Heck, get 1,000,000 subs and it's still not gonna add up to anything but another huge dent in the broadband rollout. Auctions only do two things. They put money
RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
When I read the otard rules it seems to me that they CAN stop you from mounting on the roof. The only place you could mount was tenant exclusive areas. Basically the balcony attached to the apartment. I hope I misread it though. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be willing to pull out all of the stops on this. Clear down to a 60 Minutes exploding gas tank version of the truth. And because we, as an industry, aren't good at filling out our 477s we're not even give pimple on the but status these days. The current chairman at the FCC has turned out to be far less of a fan of the entrepenure than Powell was and that's not gonna help either. 1+ - Are there realistic options for WISPs to get licensed bands? mks: Not at this time. I know
Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
OTARD is all well and good, but that doesn't help you with MTUs or MDUs. OTARD only applies to areas of exclusive control by the tenant. That means common areas such as roofs of apartment and office buildings are not affected by OTARD. In cases where OTARD does apply, the property manage has the burden to prove that it doesn't by filling with the FCC. One can quickly (and cheaply) get a court order forcing the issue with the landlord until the FCC responds. Remember, FCC regulations trump all local jurisdictions. -Matt Chad Halsted wrote: Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be willing to pull out all of the stops on this. Clear down to a 60 Minutes exploding gas tank version of the truth. And because we, as an industry, aren't good at filling out our 477s we're not even give pimple on the but status these days. The current chairman at the FCC has turned out to be far less of a fan of the entrepenure than Powell was and that's not gonna help either. 1+ - Are there realistic options for WISPs to get
Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
The first thing to determine, is whether your case is covered by OTARD. (space controlled by the tenant, and not condo). If it is, you don't fight it out with the property owners or homeowner associations, you just go install it. You have the right to install, and then the property owner can try and fight it, if they want to. But the secret is to put the burden on them, and NOT the DELAY on you. If confronted, hand them the OTARD papers andtell them to call the FCC if they have questions, and if they touch your stuff, they are violating FCC Federal regulations. But the catch here is that you need to be certain you meet the requirement of what Otard covers. Where the problem come in is what the value of broadband is and the value of time. A home owner doesn;t want to have to be a lawyer or a protester to get Internet service. If they have to create a commotion, they often will just back out, regardless of whether they are legal allowed to deploy. Nobody wants hassle. So you have to keep the hassle from the subscriber. As far as MTU building and shared space, they win the ball is in their court. The sooner one learns that the better. Start making friends, and start finding value for the property owner, because it can be a timely battle. In our case it was the largest source of time spent in the company that was unanticipated in our early years. So rule one, don't waste time fighting it, just follow the rules, and run with them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chad Halsted [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year
Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
I haven't had to. But I've heard of people pulling out the OTARD rules and waving them in front of landlords. The rule originally was there for sat. services etc. But it's been expanded to wisp services etc. You are limited to areas that are exclusively in the control of the tenant. So, yeah, decks etc. What you can't do, is force an AP type situation. I've not heard of a ruling on mesh systems yet. I'd think they'd fall under the rules as a broadcast site and not be covered under otard. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Chad Halsted [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem
RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
Many WISPs have fought the OTARD battle over the years. I'm not sure I recall of one that lost if they knew the rules. OTARD is a federal act that pre-empts state and local rules. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be willing to pull out all of the stops on this. Clear down to a 60 Minutes exploding gas tank version of the truth. And because we, as an industry, aren't good at filling out our 477s we're not even give pimple on the but status these days. The current chairman at the FCC has turned out to be far less of a fan of the entrepenure than Powell was and that's not gonna help either. 1+ - Are there realistic options for WISPs to get licensed bands? mks: Not at this time. I know people have done so. But lets look at the real numbers here. Last I heard the latest
RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
Mike, they can prevent you from roof mounting if it is a multi-tenant, multi-floor sort of building. If your customer rents a townhouse style, you should have access. Maybe they can prevent you from holing the roof itself for under some loop hole that protects them from risks to the structure, but certainly they could not prevent an eave mount. 100% they cannot prevent a mount on a subscribers' balcony. Here is the FCC factsheet on the issue: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Bushard, Jr Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:42 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers When I read the otard rules it seems to me that they CAN stop you from mounting on the roof. The only place you could mount was tenant exclusive areas. Basically the balcony attached to the apartment. I hope I misread it though. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING
RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
...and 100% they CAN prevent mesh, repeater, or other AP mount. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Mike, they can prevent you from roof mounting if it is a multi-tenant, multi-floor sort of building. If your customer rents a townhouse style, you should have access. Maybe they can prevent you from holing the roof itself for under some loop hole that protects them from risks to the structure, but certainly they could not prevent an eave mount. 100% they cannot prevent a mount on a subscribers' balcony. Here is the FCC factsheet on the issue: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Bushard, Jr Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:42 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers When I read the otard rules it seems to me that they CAN stop you from mounting on the roof. The only place you could mount was tenant exclusive areas. Basically the balcony attached to the apartment. I hope I misread it though. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules
Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
I did direct tv for years. Still do. You really have to read the rules to do a install and be sure you are in the clear. For instance, you can not just bolt a satellite arm on the wall even if it is not a common area. Thats why you see alot of 5 gallon buckets of concrete with pipes in them. From memory I do not think you are allowed to drill through the wall either. I used to use a 6 or so flat cable coupler that the window would close on. I would try to do the install in the late evenings after the managment office closed and leave a copy of the Otard rule with the tennant with my phone# on the front of it. Joe Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:19 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Mike, they can prevent you from roof mounting if it is a multi-tenant, multi-floor sort of building. If your customer rents a townhouse style, you should have access. Maybe they can prevent you from holing the roof itself for under some loop hole that protects them from risks to the structure, but certainly they could not prevent an eave mount. 100% they cannot prevent a mount on a subscribers' balcony. Here is the FCC factsheet on the issue: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Bushard, Jr Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:42 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers When I read the otard rules it seems to me that they CAN stop you from mounting on the roof. The only place you could mount was tenant exclusive areas. Basically the balcony attached to the apartment. I hope I misread it though. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC
