Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a larger server. Lonnie On 8/23/06, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like the best. Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you remove BGP support from V3? David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
In my case, all servers are in boxes in the air, on the roof, or otherwise. BGP needs to be in the regular AP version. - Original Message - From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a larger server. Lonnie On 8/23/06, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like the best. Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you remove BGP support from V3? David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
Are you actually carrying your traffic, with your own approved public IP assignment to several carriers and they accept and route that traffic to and from the Internet? Any time I requested that it was a very expensive proposition to have and they also only did large blocks of publics. I guess times have changed. We have our network carrying our traffic to several feed points and we do nat at that time. Using policy routing and mesh we deliver to any number of available ADSL lines and T1 connections. Lonnie On 8/24/06, Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my case, all servers are in boxes in the air, on the roof, or otherwise. BGP needs to be in the regular AP version. - Original Message - From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a larger server. Lonnie On 8/23/06, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like the best. Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you remove BGP support from V3? David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
Thanks for the info Mac. First, I'm not that concerned about the CPE utility working. That's one reason I like the static IP setup - I know what user has what IP and how to get to their CPE. For the VLAN switch (that I'm not familiar with at all) can you tell me how this would work on a 2 hop setup? Basically what I have is Tower 1 to Tower 2 using 5.8 backhaul, then Tower 2 to NOC using another 5.8 backhaul. Where would I drop the switch, or do I need one ateachtower? Main thing / challenge that I'm seeing right now is that, like someone else mentioned either here or on the other list, is that I cannot do true routing with TR-6000's (my AP's). So, what I've gottofigure out how to get past that. I'm considering replacing the6000's with Mikrotik's, but not sure about that 100% yet. I think I've been talked out of using the public IP's on each CPE ;-) and am now planning to do 1-1 NAT. But, I'm just having trouble picturing in my head how I'm going to do this - especially with the TR6000 routing capabilities (or lack of). Public IP's, at least for now, are pretty easy for me to get. I could easily justify another /24 to my upstream, but beyond that, it would take some pretty convincing data for me to get more. But, once I get to that size, I'll be looking at buying my own block(s). - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network Jason, I had one of the largest bridged networks ever as I cover 15-18% of the State with wireless. I can tell you a few things about bridging-vs-routing and I aint getting into that, but I can tell you that I dont think you will want a totally static routed network either. That is not necessary unless you have 50-60 clients to the AP and have multiple hops with that type of traffic. You do need to be in a routed environment today, but IMHO not in the way the majority would steer you. Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying tofigure the best way to do this. My wireless network is currently all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's). I'm getting requests forpublic IP addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. There are many ways to accomplish what you need to have done and I suggest that you look at each one of the suggestions that will have been made and get a good understanding of what will be required down the road to continue what you start. There are a couple very simple solutions that will work, but then there are many ways to accomplish the same task using static routing. Simplest and fastest (maybe best) is to use layer 2 switches utilizing VLANS. You can get a switch like a ($250.00) Linksys SRW224G4 (naturally there are better but that will work fine) as there are whole Counties utilizing networks with the Linksys switches and routing and they arent even wireless, but fiber! Arlington County Virginia is just one example and they do the back up for the Pentagon and they are a huge completely bridged network. Keep your bridged environment between your APs and your clients, but route the backbone to all of your towers. It will break up the broadcast packets...etc from tower to tower, will segment each tower and will not allow a single clients virus to sweep through your entire network and have rolling outages. It also keeps you from having to use 10 subnets/ip ranges for 3 towers and allows for unlimited growth potential. My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed network? Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's and CPQ gear). If a customer calls with performance or other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from that end. I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to do that with a routed network. I understand this question as only another etherant/Tranzeo CPE user would :) Once you enter a routed environment on the backhaul or otherwise your scan utility will not scan but to the first router where it will loose its ability to go any farther as the scan tool uses broadcast packets to seek its objects and the router kills broadcast packets. You will have to log every IP on your network and access the antennas via HTTP. (web interface) The scan tool will still be functional at each individual tower and will capture the antennas on the wireless AP you are attached to at the moment. If you maintain a bridged network w/VLANS then the scan tool and everything else will work as it does now. Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE
Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
In my network I assign a private IP to the CPE and a 'similar' IP to the customer. For instance if I assign 10.1.1.100 to the customer then I assigned 10.101.1.100 to the CPE. Easy to remember the CPE address given the customers IP. Each AP gets it's own class C. I then do 1 to 1 NAT at the edge of my network for the customer if they need an external IP address. I have yet to find an instance where this has been an issue for the customer. From outside my network I VPN in to be able to access my infrastructure. I don't think I would want to give my CPEs (or any other infrastructure) public routable network addresses. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Jason Hensley wrote: Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying to figure the best way to do this. My wireless network is currently all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's). I'm getting requests for public IP addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed network? Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's and CPQ gear). If a customer calls with performance or other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from that end. I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to do that with a routed network. Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE. The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a few issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote Access to their network. I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen. I've got a /24 right now and can easily bump to more when needed. How are the rest of you handling your setups like this? Thanks in advance! *Jason Hensley, MCP+I President* *Mozarks Technologies* 909 Preacher Roe Blvd West Plains, MO 65775 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mozarks.com 417.256.7946 417.257.2415 (fax) !DSPAM:16,44eb863835541702512215! http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,44eb863835541702512215 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
In the end I feel routed is better because you grow, a bridged network will get loud (lots of overhead traffic). You manage the CPE in a routed network just as you do now. What maybe you see is the difference between true routes and NAT routes. With true routes there is a path to and from each subnet. You can easily get to the web interface of each CPE in a properly routed network. A NAT router hides the network behind the WAN address whether its private or public and all traffic coming from the NAT subnet appears as if its coming from the WAN address. Tranzeo APs, last time I tried, will not do true routing only NAT routing. I also like the idea of one to one NATing the Public IP to the private ip of the customer. Mark McElvy AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. 573-729-9200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying tofigure the best way to do this. My wireless network is currently all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's). I'm getting requests forpublic IP addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed network? Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's and CPQ gear). If a customer calls with performance or other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from that end. I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to do that with a routed network. Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE. The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a few issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote Access to their network. I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen. I've got a /24 right now and can easily bump to more when needed. How are the rest of you handling your setups like this? Thanks in advance! Jason Hensley, MCP+I President Mozarks Technologies 909 Preacher Roe Blvd West Plains, MO 65775 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mozarks.com 417.256.7946 417.257.2415 (fax) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
That is correct on the Tranzeo AP's, but, I'm considering replacing the TR-6000's I have with RB532's to give me more flexibility, and give true bandwidth shaping at the AP instead of at my headend. - Original Message - From: Mark McElvy To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:07 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network In the end I feel routed is better because you grow, a bridged network will get loud (lots of overhead traffic). You manage the CPE in a routed network just as you do now. What maybe you see is the difference between true routes and NAT routes. With true routes there is a path to and from each subnet. You can easily get to the web interface of each CPE in a properly routed network. A NAT router hides the network behind the WAN address whether its private or public and all traffic coming from the NAT subnet appears as if its coming from the WAN address. Tranzeo APs, last time I tried, will not do true routing only NAT routing. I also like the idea of one to one NATing the Public IP to the private ip of the customer. Mark McElvy AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. 573-729-9200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason HensleySent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:32 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying tofigure the best way to do this. My wireless network is currently all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's). I'm getting requests forpublic IP addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed network? Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's and CPQ gear). If a customer calls with performance or other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from that end. I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to do that with a routed network. Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE. The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a few issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote Access to their network. I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen. I've got a /24 right now and can easily bump to more when needed. How are the rest of you handling your setups like this? Thanks in advance! Jason Hensley, MCP+IPresident Mozarks Technologies909 Preacher Roe BlvdWest Plains, MO 65775 [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.mozarks.com417.256.7946417.257.2415 (fax) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
I am currently using WRAP/StarOS for APs, routing back to a StarOS Head end router that is doing the shaping. I am a fan of centralized administration, I use MAC/Radius Auth for the SOS APs, but Atheros radios do not support this. Mark McElvy AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. Salem, MO 573-729-9200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network That is correct on the Tranzeo AP's, but, I'm considering replacing the TR-6000's I have with RB532's to give me more flexibility, and give true bandwidth shaping at the AP instead of at my headend. - Original Message - From: Mark McElvy To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:07 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network In the end I feel routed is better because you grow, a bridged network will get loud (lots of overhead traffic). You manage the CPE in a routed network just as you do now. What maybe you see is the difference between true routes and NAT routes. With true routes there is a path to and from each subnet. You can easily get to the web interface of each CPE in a properly routed network. A NAT router hides the network behind the WAN address whether its private or public and all traffic coming from the NAT subnet appears as if its coming from the WAN address. Tranzeo APs, last time I tried, will not do true routing only NAT routing. I also like the idea of one to one NATing the Public IP to the private ip of the customer. Mark McElvy AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. 573-729-9200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying tofigure the best way to do this. My wireless network is currently all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's). I'm getting requests forpublic IP addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed network? Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's and CPQ gear). If a customer calls with performance or other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from that end. I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to do that with a routed network. Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE. The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a few issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote Access to their network. I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen. I've got a /24 right now and can easily bump to more when needed. How are the rest of you handling your setups like this? Thanks in advance! Jason Hensley, MCP+I President Mozarks Technologies 909 Preacher Roe Blvd West Plains, MO 65775 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mozarks.com 417.256.7946 417.257.2415 (fax) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/