Re: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik
Meru Networks does ~2ms handoffs between access points through controllers which run Redhat (or some other rpm-based distro; I forget). The access points report the signal level of clients to the controller, which then decides which AP to send traffic for the client through. It's simple, smart and just works .. as long as we're asking Mikrotik to add protocols for fast handoff, this is the way to go! Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik
But it sounds like that would require MT as end-user CPE? Wouldn't work for us... -Jon Paul Hendry wrote: That's one of the reasons that the WDS, EoIP combo works so well as the end user keeps that same address and it cuts out the repeated DHCP stage at AP hand over. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler Sent: 07 September 2006 08:57 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik It's too bad MT doesn't come up with a mobile roaming / routing protocol(unless they do and I don't know of it). Where the end user retains the same IP address even after it get routed between various towers and is wireless medium independent(wifi, wimax, cdma). Does anyone here have experience/ideas with that? Jon Langeler Michwave Tech. Butch Evans wrote: On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Brian Rohrbacher wrote: How long is a ping? Isn't windows ping like 4 sec? 7 times 4 = 28 seconds. To me, (if my math is correct) 28 sec is frustrating, not seamless. Perhaps seamless is not the proper word. We did some testing today and a cop used his laptop at 6 locations throughout the city to surf the web and do license checks. From his perspective, it was seamless. From the perspective of the network...there were seams. Is that a more clear explanation? -- Jon Langeler Michwave Tech. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik
Jon, Trapeze Networks (http://www.trapezenetworks.com) has a solution that works with 3rd party Aps and allows for seamless roaming / mobility across VLANs / broadcast domains Did you forget everything you learned a few weeks ago? wink -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik It's too bad MT doesn't come up with a mobile roaming / routing protocol(unless they do and I don't know of it). Where the end user retains the same IP address even after it get routed between various towers and is wireless medium independent(wifi, wimax, cdma). Does anyone here have experience/ideas with that? Jon Langeler Michwave Tech. Butch Evans wrote: On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Brian Rohrbacher wrote: How long is a ping? Isn't windows ping like 4 sec? 7 times 4 = 28 seconds. To me, (if my math is correct) 28 sec is frustrating, not seamless. Perhaps seamless is not the proper word. We did some testing today and a cop used his laptop at 6 locations throughout the city to surf the web and do license checks. From his perspective, it was seamless. From the perspective of the network...there were seams. Is that a more clear explanation? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik
Butch, to do Layer 3 fast roaming, Cisco uses GRE tunnels into a WLSM module. That combined with CCX extensions allow them to do under 50 ms handoffs. Supposedly, just the CCX extensions make it possible for under 150 ms handoffs. I wonder if it is possible for Mikrotik to implement any of these protocols. http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/765/ccx/versions_and_features.shtml John -Original Message- From: Butch Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2006 08:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Brian Rohrbacher wrote: How long is a ping? Isn't windows ping like 4 sec? 7 times 4 = 28 seconds. To me, (if my math is correct) 28 sec is frustrating, not seamless. Perhaps seamless is not the proper word. We did some testing today and a cop used his laptop at 6 locations throughout the city to surf the web and do license checks. From his perspective, it was seamless. From the perspective of the network...there were seams. Is that a more clear explanation? -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik
Hi Butch, It was my understanding that using Mikrotik, EoIP, WDS and RSTP you could achieve a similar thing with only 1-2 ping drops per handoff between AP's at least that's what is being claimed by some on the MK forum. We are just about to test such a setup to facilitate a roaming VoIP solution so 5-7 ping failures is going to be too noticeable. Cheers, P. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: 04 September 2006 03:58 To: Equipment List Cc: Arnis Riekstins; Part-15 Mikrotik List; WISP List; Wispa List Subject: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik I want to take this opportunity to share with these lists some things that we have recently done with a Mikrotik RouterOS based network. This may seem to some like blatant advertising, but it is certainly not intended to be that. Many of you have looked for a solution that will let you do some of the things that we now have working (testing is still underway) using pure Mikrotik network. The network is a 13 AP network (2.4GHz) that covers an entire city. There are a few small areas that do not currently have coverage, but these can be filled in easily as they are identified. The network was built by a small city in eastern OK (I won't go into detail here). The intent of the network was to provide for first responders with access to the internet as well as city resources. In addition to this, the city wanted to make the network available for internet access to the general public (I don't know the details, but my understanding is that local ISPs will handle this part). Obviously, we needed to make certain that the police, fire and EMS units had security from the rest of the network. We are handling this in several ways. Mikrotik has the ability to create what are called virtual APs (a virtual AP is a second AP, with the ability to use distinct access-lists as well as distinct security profiles from the physical radio card). That is to say, that the virtual AP acts like a second radio card but is, in reality, using only one physical radio card. At any rate, this virtual AP is being used for the city's network, while the other ISPs will be using their own virtual AP to provide their internet service. The police, fire and ambulance vehicles will be equipped with their own Mikrotik Routerboard with some very interesting capabilities. Due to the size of the network, and the need to allow for separation of services, we decided to route the entire network. Allowing seamless mobility in this environment presents several unique challenges. First, we must allow the CPE device to connect to several APs, insure they do not connect to unknown APs AND make sure that we know the IP information as the device moves throughout the network. There are many ways we could have used to accomplish all of this (the Mikrotik is just that flexible). We ended up with the following solution, which allows the mobile unit to seamlessly move through the network, AND will connect to the strongest AP (it checks every 15 seconds). Mikrotik's scripting host was invaluable in this solution. The script checks the signal level of the currently active radio (there is a 2.4GHz AND a 900MHz radio in each CPE) and (if it is below acceptable levels), it will search for the strongest AP (on either radio), connect to that AP, then proceed to reconfigure the CPE so that it works on the network. Finally, the IPSEC tunnel (which is not implemented, yet) will be established and normal communications for the IP cams, laptop or whatever other equipment is located in the vehicle will resume. Our initial testing showed that the we could drive through town pinging the city hall's server and not drop more than 5-7 pings each time we switched APs. Testing will continue throughout the upcoming week and it is likely that we will have to tweak our configuration some. NOW, before some of you start pounding me for being part of a muni wifi network solution, let me ease your mind. The city owns this network, and they are allowing for access to the internet, but the city will not be selling the access (at least that is my understanding). I don't want to argue this point anyway. It will fall on deaf ears if any of you start it anyway. :-) I am not at liberty to provide much detail about the network at this time, but I wanted to share this much, as this is an exciting option that many of you may have searched for. I just wanted to let you know, that Mikrotik CAN BE CONFIGURED AS A MOBILE NETWORK! ;-) -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming
Re: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik
How long is a ping? Isn't windows ping like 4 sec? 7 times 4 = 28 seconds. To me, (if my math is correct) 28 sec is frustrating, not seamless. Brian Paul Hendry wrote: Hi Butch, It was my understanding that using Mikrotik, EoIP, WDS and RSTP you could achieve a similar thing with only 1-2 ping drops per handoff between AP's at least that's what is being claimed by some on the MK forum. We are just about to test such a setup to facilitate a roaming VoIP solution so 5-7 ping failures is going to be too noticeable. Cheers, P. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: 04 September 2006 03:58 To: Equipment List Cc: Arnis Riekstins; Part-15 Mikrotik List; WISP List; Wispa List Subject: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik I want to take this opportunity to share with these lists some things that we have recently done with a Mikrotik RouterOS based network. This may seem to some like blatant advertising, but it is certainly not intended to be that. Many of you have looked for a solution that will let you do some of the things that we now have working (testing is still underway) using pure Mikrotik network. The network is a 13 AP network (2.4GHz) that covers an entire city. There are a few small areas that do not currently have coverage, but these can be filled in easily as they are identified. The network was built by a small city in eastern OK (I won't go into detail here). The intent of the network was to provide for first responders with access to the internet as well as city resources. In addition to this, the city wanted to make the network available for internet access to the general public (I don't know the details, but my understanding is that local ISPs will handle this part). Obviously, we needed to make certain that the police, fire and EMS units had security from the rest of the network. We are handling this in several ways. Mikrotik has the ability to create what are called virtual APs (a virtual AP is a second AP, with the ability to use distinct access-lists as well as distinct security profiles from the physical radio card). That is to say, that the virtual AP acts like a second radio card but is, in reality, using only one physical radio card. At any rate, this virtual AP is being used for the city's network, while the other ISPs will be using their own virtual AP to provide their internet service. The police, fire and ambulance vehicles will be equipped with their own Mikrotik Routerboard with some very interesting capabilities. Due to the size of the network, and the need to allow for separation of services, we decided to route the entire network. Allowing seamless mobility in this environment presents several unique challenges. First, we must allow the CPE device to connect to several APs, insure they do not connect to unknown APs AND make sure that we know the IP information as the device moves throughout the network. There are many ways we could have used to accomplish all of this (the Mikrotik is just that flexible). We ended up with the following solution, which allows the mobile unit to seamlessly move through the network, AND will connect to the strongest AP (it checks every 15 seconds). Mikrotik's scripting host was invaluable in this solution. The script checks the signal level of the currently active radio (there is a 2.4GHz AND a 900MHz radio in each CPE) and (if it is below acceptable levels), it will search for the strongest AP (on either radio), connect to that AP, then proceed to reconfigure the CPE so that it works on the network. Finally, the IPSEC tunnel (which is not implemented, yet) will be established and normal communications for the IP cams, laptop or whatever other equipment is located in the vehicle will resume. Our initial testing showed that the we could drive through town pinging the city hall's server and not drop more than 5-7 pings each time we switched APs. Testing will continue throughout the upcoming week and it is likely that we will have to tweak our configuration some. NOW, before some of you start pounding me for being part of a muni wifi network solution, let me ease your mind. The city owns this network, and they are allowing for access to the internet, but the city will not be selling the access (at least that is my understanding). I don't want to argue this point anyway. It will fall on deaf ears if any of you start it anyway. :-) I am not at liberty to provide much detail about the network at this time, but I wanted to share this much, as this is an exciting option that many of you may have searched for. I just wanted to let you know, that Mikrotik CAN BE CONFIGURED AS A MOBILE NETWORK! ;-) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Bragging on Mikrotik
On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Paul Hendry wrote: It was my understanding that using Mikrotik, EoIP, WDS and RSTP you could achieve a similar thing with only 1-2 ping drops per handoff between AP's at least that's what is being claimed by some on the MK forum. We are just about to test such a setup to facilitate a roaming VoIP solution so 5-7 ping failures is going to be too noticeable. You can do this with the combinations you mentioned. The parameters I was given to work with made a routed network a better design choice. Some may argue that a huge outdoor bridge with many subs running on something like WDS is a good network architecture. I happen to disagree (and experience tells me that I am correct in my opinion). If you called me and asked me to build the VoIP solution you mentioned, then I would design the network around that need, although I would tell the people I was working for that there are going to be certain limitations to the network design. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
