RE: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
Multiple of RPU is still how Ive seen deals evaluated, past and present. The thinking on the part of the buyer is I can buy you for X multiple of sales today. Yes- I can achieve economies of scale, yes I might be able to sell more services and crank up the revenue. But- those future activities occur on my dime, not yours Mr. Seller, so all that value should go to me. Ill take the future risk and Ill get the rewards. You get rewarded for your past performance to date. You always need to protect yourself and be ready to leave the dance when the right date comes along. In the late 90's there were a lot of deals happening for dial-up shops, some good, some bad. The ones I saw were solid cash out deals. The squirrelly ones I saw were generally the deals that involved some future potential. Chris Wrong. Thats old school. Evaluation is a direct multiple of the ARPU that the buyer can acheive because they bought your netowrk. Consider their new ability to gain revenue at a quicker rate, based on the unique benefit of combining the buyers and sellers assets. The way of increasing revenue is irrelevent. Consildation... Time to Market... illiminating a competitor allowing for higher prices, Throwing money and a marketing engine onto a network built out to serve that previously had little money to market its growth. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
I'd argue market conditions is the biggest factor. So why spend the money on the higher price gear? Well currently canopy is pretty cheap but only does 7Mbps/7Mbps throughput, a MT system w/ 23db MTI pocket antenna is about $400 but will do 30Mbps with good SNR and 15Mbps w/o a problem The next step is the alvarion VL line which is pretty costly, then there is the solectek(sp?), and some other atheros based solutions, all seem to be about $1000 cpe priced solutions I want the 15Mbps to 30Mbps to the CPE and will pay more than the canopy cheapo version to get, is it worth it? Is it worth to roll my own MT solution or to pay more for the pre-rolled alvarion/solectek/etc? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 02/22/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services--SomeObservations
You seem to making the assumption that the services you are comparing are the same. In our case, our VoIP provides significantly better quality than offered by Vonage. Further, we can actually support fax, which tons of VoIP providers fall down on including Vonage. Thus, I don't have to offer retail voice at the same price as Vonage. Customers are stupid unless they want to be. Explain how relying upon VoIP over the internet will likely result in poor quality and compare that with a VoIP service controlled by the owner of the network. If you control the entire network from the CPE to your softswitch then outside of incompetence, the Vonages of the world can't compete. -Matt Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services--SomeObservations snip I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer and do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely bulk buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute account that costs me 25 bucks a month. They can buy Packet8 for less than most resell deals. /snip You're thinking like the ISP techie -- e.g., if I'm not better / cheaper / faster...then I can't be in business Obviously, this isn't how things work Charles, you assume far too much. This is Mark The Businessman talking. You see, if I can't provide my customers good value for thier money, then I have no business taking thier money. It's how I sleep at night and it's my duty to my fellow man. Maybe some folks out there will rape the customer for all he can get from him... I cannot do so in good conscience. I do not have to be cheaper. I have to provide the customer good value for his money.Darn, that's old fashioned. My God, it's moralistic. Heavens, it's totally out of fashion loyalty to customers... Whatever it is, that's how I do business, and if you're here to tell me this isn't how things work then don't waste your breath.I'm not looking to be the cheapest on earth. I am NOT the cheapest you can get for broadband where I am. But I am good value for the money. And that's what I want to offer for VOIP service, too. Case in point -- I know of a market that consists of 2 Canopy WISPs -- the owners / principles of one come from a techie / residential ISP background, and sell wireless broadband connections (various rates of 1 Mb, 2 Mb, 3 Mb burstable connections) for $29-69 / month In the same market, the 2nd Canopy WISP has people who come from a carrier / enterprise sales background, and they sell the EXACT SAME WIRELESS CONNECTION (from a technological standpoint that is, it's still an unlicensed Motorola SM / AP) for $300-600 / month Now, it is worth noting that the guys in WISP #2 are 100 lbs overweight, have grey hair, and wear suits, while the guys in WISP #1 (although in their late 20s now) -- still resemble adolescent college fraternity kids However, when they first hit the market, I was thinking, jeez, these guys (WISP #2) are absolutely nuts, they're morons, trying to sell overpriced @#$@ -- they'll never turn on a customer Yet consistently, I see guys from WISP #2 outsell guys from WISP #1 in competitive deals (e.g., customer has a T1 line they're paying $500 / month for, and WISP #1 comes in and tries to sell a 3 Mb connection for $69 -- nothing happens -- 3 months later, WISP #2 comes in and sells a 3 Mb dedicated connection for $600 / month to the same customer) Go figure... They say There's a sucker born every minute. I will not take advantage of them. When I reach the end of my life it will not matter if I were rich or poor, only whether I can face my Maker with a clean conscience. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations Quote: IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN JUST TECHNOLOGY... yes, it is. More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs or wants. Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place. I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service
Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations
Quote: IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN JUST TECHNOLOGY... yes, it is. More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs or wants. Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place. I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer and do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely bulk buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute account that costs me 25 bucks a month. They can buy Packet8 for less than most resell deals. I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced wholesale programs. What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff (including providing e911) but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't touch my customer. I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store. If we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own services. Just random thoughts on the topic... North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Cc: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of what's the best radio or who's got those cool blue lights -- however, FWIW, I've noticed that there seldom is any debate on useful topics like sales marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt wireless) Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But fuel the fire with a few observations - rant - ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User. This is the average revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged the same price -- with some customers charged less and others more. Customer type usually determines price. In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct multiple of its ARPU. The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level / Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following license-exempt broadband wireless WiMAX connections have been calculated as follows: Broadband Lite Residential Service (512 / 512 Kb Burstable) MRR: $24.95 MRC: $20 Best Effort Residential Service (5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) MRR: $39.95 MRC: $20 Best Effort Business Class Service (5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable) MRR: $149.95 MRC: $25 Dedicated Business Class Service (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) (1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated) MRR: $249.95 MRC: $30 Dedicated Business SLA Service (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) (3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated) MRR: $449.95 MRC: $40 Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the overall health of the bottom line. Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved using the EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access technology. So why is the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU? IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN JUST TECHNOLOGY... - rant - -Charles -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced wholesale programs. Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations
they want their cake and eat it too.. exactly. Either run your own Asterisk server with PSTN gateway or figure out how to sell on margins and stop whining. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced wholesale programs. Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
VoIP is the future and while it is currently profitable, I don't think it will be long-term. I expect long-term telephone service as we know it will be free. In the mean time, VoIP sells data better than almost anything else. -Matt Mark Koskenmaki wrote: If that's the case, then VOIP has no future. If there's no profit to be made in it, then what's everyone jumping on it for? North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced wholesale programs. Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
I don't understand your point about selling on margins. I was merely asking for a wholesale product that was priced less than RETAIL. Nothing more, nothing less. I have yet to figure out how it is all the wholesale products are currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail offerings. There's no margin in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per customer. I didn't say I wanted a fat margin. I just said I wanted something I could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs more than retail. If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange. As best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure. Nobody seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe not. The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to scale upwards, more so than customer service. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: warped.terranova.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations they want their cake and eat it too.. exactly. Either run your own Asterisk server with PSTN gateway or figure out how to sell on margins and stop whining. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced wholesale programs. Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
What makes you think there's any margin selling retail? Figure out what you're doing or accept what's handed to you. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I don't understand your point about selling on margins. I was merely asking for a wholesale product that was priced less than RETAIL. Nothing more, nothing less. I have yet to figure out how it is all the wholesale products are currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail offerings. There's no margin in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per customer. I didn't say I wanted a fat margin. I just said I wanted something I could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs more than retail. If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange. As best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure. Nobody seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe not. The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to scale upwards, more so than customer service. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: warped.terranova.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations they want their cake and eat it too.. exactly. Either run your own Asterisk server with PSTN gateway or figure out how to sell on margins and stop whining. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced wholesale programs. Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
snip I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer and do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely bulk buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute account that costs me 25 bucks a month. They can buy Packet8 for less than most resell deals. /snip You're thinking like the ISP techie -- e.g., if I'm not better / cheaper / faster...then I can't be in business Obviously, this isn't how things work Case in point -- I know of a market that consists of 2 Canopy WISPs -- the owners / principles of one come from a techie / residential ISP background, and sell wireless broadband connections (various rates of 1 Mb, 2 Mb, 3 Mb burstable connections) for $29-69 / month In the same market, the 2nd Canopy WISP has people who come from a carrier / enterprise sales background, and they sell the EXACT SAME WIRELESS CONNECTION (from a technological standpoint that is, it's still an unlicensed Motorola SM / AP) for $300-600 / month Now, it is worth noting that the guys in WISP #2 are 100 lbs overweight, have grey hair, and wear suits, while the guys in WISP #1 (although in their late 20s now) -- still resemble adolescent college fraternity kids However, when they first hit the market, I was thinking, jeez, these guys (WISP #2) are absolutely nuts, they're morons, trying to sell overpriced @#$@ -- they'll never turn on a customer Yet consistently, I see guys from WISP #2 outsell guys from WISP #1 in competitive deals (e.g., customer has a T1 line they're paying $500 / month for, and WISP #1 comes in and tries to sell a 3 Mb connection for $69 -- nothing happens -- 3 months later, WISP #2 comes in and sells a 3 Mb dedicated connection for $600 / month to the same customer) Go figure... -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations Quote: IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN JUST TECHNOLOGY... yes, it is. More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs or wants. Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place. I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced wholesale programs. What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff (including providing e911) but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't touch my customer. I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store. If we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own services. Just random thoughts on the topic... North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Cc: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of what's the best radio or who's got those cool blue lights -- however, FWIW, I've noticed that there seldom is any debate on useful topics like sales marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt wireless) Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But fuel the fire with a few observations - rant - ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User. This is the average revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged the same price -- with some customers charged less and others more. Customer type usually determines price. In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct multiple of its ARPU. The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level / Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following license-exempt broadband wireless WiMAX connections have been calculated as follows: Broadband Lite Residential Service (512 / 512 Kb Burstable) MRR: $24.95 MRC: $20 Best Effort Residential Service (5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) MRR: $39.95
RE: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
snip Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. /snip I know a lot of people out there who are willing to pay $30+ / month for a VoIP handset (in fact, my office has 40 handsets, and we still pay an outsourced VoIP provider $30 / month FOR EVERY SINGLE HANDSET -- then we get charged per minute local / long-distance rates) Another example A good friend of mine runs a colocation company in the Equinix IBX -- he charges $50 / month per U of rack space IBM, in a cage less than 50' away from him, charges $1k / month per U for rack space IBM has more colo'd servers than my friend Maybe you just aren't selling properly? -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced wholesale programs. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services--SomeObservations
- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services--SomeObservations snip I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer and do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely bulk buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute account that costs me 25 bucks a month. They can buy Packet8 for less than most resell deals. /snip You're thinking like the ISP techie -- e.g., if I'm not better / cheaper / faster...then I can't be in business Obviously, this isn't how things work Charles, you assume far too much. This is Mark The Businessman talking. You see, if I can't provide my customers good value for thier money, then I have no business taking thier money. It's how I sleep at night and it's my duty to my fellow man. Maybe some folks out there will rape the customer for all he can get from him... I cannot do so in good conscience. I do not have to be cheaper. I have to provide the customer good value for his money.Darn, that's old fashioned. My God, it's moralistic. Heavens, it's totally out of fashion loyalty to customers... Whatever it is, that's how I do business, and if you're here to tell me this isn't how things work then don't waste your breath.I'm not looking to be the cheapest on earth. I am NOT the cheapest you can get for broadband where I am. But I am good value for the money. And that's what I want to offer for VOIP service, too. Case in point -- I know of a market that consists of 2 Canopy WISPs -- the owners / principles of one come from a techie / residential ISP background, and sell wireless broadband connections (various rates of 1 Mb, 2 Mb, 3 Mb burstable connections) for $29-69 / month In the same market, the 2nd Canopy WISP has people who come from a carrier / enterprise sales background, and they sell the EXACT SAME WIRELESS CONNECTION (from a technological standpoint that is, it's still an unlicensed Motorola SM / AP) for $300-600 / month Now, it is worth noting that the guys in WISP #2 are 100 lbs overweight, have grey hair, and wear suits, while the guys in WISP #1 (although in their late 20s now) -- still resemble adolescent college fraternity kids However, when they first hit the market, I was thinking, jeez, these guys (WISP #2) are absolutely nuts, they're morons, trying to sell overpriced @#$@ -- they'll never turn on a customer Yet consistently, I see guys from WISP #2 outsell guys from WISP #1 in competitive deals (e.g., customer has a T1 line they're paying $500 / month for, and WISP #1 comes in and tries to sell a 3 Mb connection for $69 -- nothing happens -- 3 months later, WISP #2 comes in and sells a 3 Mb dedicated connection for $600 / month to the same customer) Go figure... They say There's a sucker born every minute. I will not take advantage of them. When I reach the end of my life it will not matter if I were rich or poor, only whether I can face my Maker with a clean conscience. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations Quote: IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN JUST TECHNOLOGY... yes, it is. More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs or wants. Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place. I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced wholesale programs. What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff (including providing e911) but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't touch my customer. I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store. If we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own services. Just random thoughts on the topic... North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal
Re: [WISPA] Sales Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations
. In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct multiple of its ARPU. Wrong. Thats old school. Evaluation is a direct multiple of the ARPU that the buyer can acheive because they bought your netowrk. Consider their new ability to gain revenue at a quicker rate, based on the unique benefit of combining the buyers and sellers assets. The way of increasing revenue is irrelevent. Consildation... Time to Market... illiminating a competitor allowing for higher prices, Throwing money and a marketing engine onto a network built out to serve that previously had little money to market its growth. Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the overall health of the bottom line. Yes but your example does not consider cost to obtain client, jsut to maintain. The benefit of residential is the higher rate to obtain subscribers, with less marketing, less salesmanship, less barriers, and lower standard of Quality for lower cost of more forgiving maintenance. So why is the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU? Market conditions and demand. IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN JUST TECHNOLOGY... I'd argue market conditions is the biggest factor. So why spend the money on the higher price gear? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc - rant - -Charles -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
