Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
Some use multiple technologies mixed. 34 use canopy. I have sent the detail. Looks believable to me. I guess the is the problem, I state a metric, like Mot reports having half the market. So someone says they are full of crap and that nobody can believe something like that. (Part of being an evangelist for a choice is to reject, discredit or suppress information that holds the alternates in a good light). So I do a very off-the-cuff non scientific study trusting that folks will be honest. One question for you Mac: Are you saying everyone is equally stretching the truth? Are Canopy users less honest than Trango or MT users? I would presume that the MT or Trango would be the ones stretching the truth... grin How far do you reckon that folks have stretched their numbers? I'll be happy to put my name by my number. Personally, I think everyone at WISPA is honest and we have a very honest sampling. I was only testing the hypothesis that Canopy represents about half the WISP market. Or really, more formally I was attempting to prove the null hypothesis that all manufacturers are equally likely to be supplying the market. I have not proved the null hypothesis. Actually, I think it is rejected. We can get into confidence intervals and margin of errors (which would probably be about 12% for a survey like this) and ANOVA and Chi and a bunch of other stuff I have suppressed in a dusty corner of my noggin, but really, I was just looking for a general feel. - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA] Book1.xls Chuck, I think someone (read - as in very many) have stretched the truth with your survey. I could be wrong, (not the first time) but according to your poll the 43 WISPs have an average of 1153.418 subscribers each! It appears that 27 of the 43 WISPs used Canopy and those 27 ISPs count for a total of 1162.3 subs each while the total of the rest of the WISPs combined (16) have an average of 1138.3 subscribers I guess there could be some really huge WISPs out here that participated in the survey that I am not aware of. Cool survey THANKS!! Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:43 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Book1.xls Got tired of adding it up each time. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1833 - Release Date: 12/6/2008 4:55 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
It started on the Motorola mailing list? Really? News to me. I thought it was started at [EMAIL PROTECTED] So where is the Alvarion and Trango mailing list? Perhaps you should start one there. Or invite them to participate? But I restate my earlier prognostication, human nature requires you to suppress or dismiss that which causes cognitive dissonance... - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Motorola Canopy User Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA] Book1.xls I don't believe this to be a real survey (so far). The entire survey has only been running over a weekend, and was started on the Motorola mailing list. I would suggest that it runs for another week and then let's see. If I remember correctly, there are some very large Alvarion WISPs that I know have not responded... as well as Trango and others. Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: Some use multiple technologies mixed. 34 use canopy. I have sent the detail. Looks believable to me. I guess the is the problem, I state a metric, like Mot reports having half the market. So someone says they are full of crap and that nobody can believe something like that. (Part of being an evangelist for a choice is to reject, discredit or suppress information that holds the alternates in a good light). So I do a very off-the-cuff non scientific study trusting that folks will be honest. One question for you Mac: Are you saying everyone is equally stretching the truth? Are Canopy users less honest than Trango or MT users? I would presume that the MT or Trango would be the ones stretching the truth... grin How far do you reckon that folks have stretched their numbers? I'll be happy to put my name by my number. Personally, I think everyone at WISPA is honest and we have a very honest sampling. I was only testing the hypothesis that Canopy represents about half the WISP market. Or really, more formally I was attempting to prove the null hypothesis that all manufacturers are equally likely to be supplying the market. I have not proved the null hypothesis. Actually, I think it is rejected. We can get into confidence intervals and margin of errors (which would probably be about 12% for a survey like this) and ANOVA and Chi and a bunch of other stuff I have suppressed in a dusty corner of my noggin, but really, I was just looking for a general feel. - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA] Book1.xls Chuck, I think someone (read - as in very many) have stretched the truth with your survey. I could be wrong, (not the first time) but according to your poll the 43 WISPs have an average of 1153.418 subscribers each! It appears that 27 of the 43 WISPs used Canopy and those 27 ISPs count for a total of 1162.3 subs each while the total of the rest of the WISPs combined (16) have an average of 1138.3 subscribers I guess there could be some really huge WISPs out here that participated in the survey that I am not aware of. Cool survey THANKS!! Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:43 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Book1.xls Got tired of adding it up each time. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1833 - Release Date: 12/6/2008 4:55 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
Nex-Tech participated in this poll and we are around 4000 subs. 90% Canopy shop. -Eric Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: How far do you reckon that folks have stretched their numbers? I'll be happy to put my name by my number. - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA] Book1.xls Chuck, I think someone (read - as in very many) have stretched the truth with your survey. I could be wrong, (not the first time) but according to your poll the 43 WISPs have an average of 1153.418 subscribers each! It appears that 27 of the 43 WISPs used Canopy and those 27 ISPs count for a total of 1162.3 subs each while the total of the rest of the WISPs combined (16) have an average of 1138.3 subscribers I guess there could be some really huge WISPs out here that participated in the survey that I am not aware of. Cool survey THANKS!! Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:43 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Book1.xls Got tired of adding it up each time. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1833 - Release Date: 12/6/2008 4:55 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
See in line comments for my sanities sake :) -Original Message- Behalf Of Chuck McCown Some use multiple technologies mixed. 34 use canopy. I have sent the detail. Looks believable to me. [Mac says] I to use mixed technologies and the numbers just took me by surprise. I was not looking to see an average sub count anywhere near that number per WISP. It makes me smile all over to see this kind of numbers associated with that many WISPs. It reassures me that we (the wireless industry) is healthy and moving ahead in the world. I guess the is the problem, I state a metric, like Mot reports having half the market. So someone says they are full of crap and that nobody can believe something like that. (Part of being an evangelist for a choice is to reject, discredit or suppress information that holds the alternates in a good light). [Mac says] I agree with that comment 100%. I think it called human nature when we defend what we believe in and I believe (part of the time) that what I am doing is the absolute right thing and I will stand up for it :) So I do a very off-the-cuff non scientific study trusting that folks will be honest. [Mac says] Well - as I stated earlier - THANKS for the survey. I would like to see a larger sampling though and let it run longer just to see how many subs we (WISPs) actually have onboard. If we all stand together - united - we can accomplish a lot of good for the industry. This TVWS that we (WISPA) is currently working on didn't become a reality for all of us due to WISPAs just sitting back and not speaking up! We need numbers even if it is an honest off the cuff survey. You did good Chuck! One question for you Mac: Are you saying everyone is equally stretching the truth? Are Canopy users less honest than Trango or MT users? I would presume that the MT or Trango would be the ones stretching the truth... grin [Mac says] Well - - I wouldn't tend to think that the Moto guys are any less truthful than the rest of the guys :) unless the Rf from the Moto gear has done something to your brains :) I guess I was taken by surprise by the averages of all. If anyone took offense - I apologize because that was not my intent. If those are honestly truthful (or even close) numbers - - this industry and the amount of subs we serve collectively is very large - - - makes me smile!! How far do you reckon that folks have stretched their numbers? I'll be happy to put my name by my number. Personally, I think everyone at WISPA is honest and we have a very honest sampling. I was only testing the hypothesis that Canopy represents about half the WISP market. Or really, more formally I was attempting to prove the null hypothesis that all manufacturers are equally likely to be supplying the market. I have not proved the null hypothesis. Actually, I think it is rejected. [Mac says] I don't know anyone in Louisiana utilizing Canopy today. I am sure there are some operators somewhere here that do - I just don't know where they are. You know that my going Motorola is one of the two choices (the other being go WiMAX)I will make in the next week. We can get into confidence intervals and margin of errors (which would probably be about 12% for a survey like this) and ANOVA and Chi and a bunch of other stuff I have suppressed in a dusty corner of my noggin, but really, I was just looking for a general feel. [Mac says] I think it was a great idea and needs to be duplicated on all the lists. I know Brian Webster has been talking about trying to get some of this data together along with the demographics of the areas we serve. I think it would be a great idea as well as very helpful when we visit the FCC! Mac - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA] Book1.xls Chuck, I think someone (read - as in very many) have stretched the truth with your survey. I could be wrong, (not the first time) but according to your poll the 43 WISPs have an average of 1153.418 subscribers each! It appears that 27 of the 43 WISPs used Canopy and those 27 ISPs count for a total of 1162.3 subs each while the total of the rest of the WISPs combined (16) have an average of 1138.3 subscribers I guess there could be some really huge WISPs out here that participated in the survey that I am not aware of. Cool survey THANKS!! Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:43 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Book1.xls Got tired of adding it up each time. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1833 -
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
Mac, I am just about all canopy in Louisana and I think there is a big canopy user in Baton Rouge as well. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
And I think there was one big operator in New Orleans that deployed Canopy as part of their network (EarthLink perhaps?). In fact I think I know one of the guys who had to do some engineering work on that system :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joe Laura Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls Mac, I am just about all canopy in Louisana and I think there is a big canopy user in Baton Rouge as well. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
Yep, That was Earthlink. They were using canopy and tropos all over the city. That is until they took it all down. 2.4 actually works here now once again. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls And I think there was one big operator in New Orleans that deployed Canopy as part of their network (EarthLink perhaps?). In fact I think I know one of the guys who had to do some engineering work on that system :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joe Laura Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls Mac, I am just about all canopy in Louisana and I think there is a big canopy user in Baton Rouge as well. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
Did they finally take it down? I hadn't checked up on it much after I left. I do know they had opened up that networkwork with no bandwidth limitations so anyone could get up to a 6 meg connection. They were giving away between 15 and 18 thousand sessions a month, all because they would not put anybody on the task to do bandwidth control using a device that actually worked. That drove me nuts when I was there. They claimed they wouldn't make any money on Wi-Fi but in that city they were giving it all away and the numbers were there to prove the business case Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Joe Laura [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls Yep, That was Earthlink. They were using canopy and tropos all over the city. That is until they took it all down. 2.4 actually works here now once again. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls And I think there was one big operator in New Orleans that deployed Canopy as part of their network (EarthLink perhaps?). In fact I think I know one of the guys who had to do some engineering work on that system :-) Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joe Laura Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls Mac, I am just about all canopy in Louisana and I think there is a big canopy user in Baton Rouge as well. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
I tired but it wouldn't let me submit my answers. kept saying that I needed to put in a positive number. I even tried putting 0 into all open fields. Oh well. 6 alvarion 200 or so smartbridges are probably still out there. 300 to 400 tranzeo a handful of trango. at least 6 different brands of ap's. More and more MT for that though. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls I've been on this list for years and noticed a few people participate on a fairly quick basis. Most of the list either rarely respond or take several days to do so. I bet more numbers will come in over the next week. -RickG On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It started on the Motorola mailing list? Really? News to me. I thought it was started at [EMAIL PROTECTED] So where is the Alvarion and Trango mailing list? Perhaps you should start one there. Or invite them to participate? But I restate my earlier prognostication, human nature requires you to suppress or dismiss that which causes cognitive dissonance... - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Motorola Canopy User Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA] Book1.xls I don't believe this to be a real survey (so far). The entire survey has only been running over a weekend, and was started on the Motorola mailing list. I would suggest that it runs for another week and then let's see. If I remember correctly, there are some very large Alvarion WISPs that I know have not responded... as well as Trango and others. Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: Some use multiple technologies mixed. 34 use canopy. I have sent the detail. Looks believable to me. I guess the is the problem, I state a metric, like Mot reports having half the market. So someone says they are full of crap and that nobody can believe something like that. (Part of being an evangelist for a choice is to reject, discredit or suppress information that holds the alternates in a good light). So I do a very off-the-cuff non scientific study trusting that folks will be honest. One question for you Mac: Are you saying everyone is equally stretching the truth? Are Canopy users less honest than Trango or MT users? I would presume that the MT or Trango would be the ones stretching the truth... grin How far do you reckon that folks have stretched their numbers? I'll be happy to put my name by my number. Personally, I think everyone at WISPA is honest and we have a very honest sampling. I was only testing the hypothesis that Canopy represents about half the WISP market. Or really, more formally I was attempting to prove the null hypothesis that all manufacturers are equally likely to be supplying the market. I have not proved the null hypothesis. Actually, I think it is rejected. We can get into confidence intervals and margin of errors (which would probably be about 12% for a survey like this) and ANOVA and Chi and a bunch of other stuff I have suppressed in a dusty corner of my noggin, but really, I was just looking for a general feel. - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Motorola II] [WISPA] Book1.xls Chuck, I think someone (read - as in very many) have stretched the truth with your survey. I could be wrong, (not the first time) but according to your poll the 43 WISPs have an average of 1153.418 subscribers each! It appears that 27 of the 43 WISPs used Canopy and those 27 ISPs count for a total of 1162.3 subs each while the total of the rest of the WISPs combined (16) have an average of 1138.3 subscribers I guess there could be some really huge WISPs out here that participated in the survey that I am not aware of. Cool survey THANKS!! Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:43 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Book1.xls Got tired of adding it up each time. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1833 - Release Date: 12/6/2008 4:55 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
That's odd. I don't think anyone else has reported a problem. Here is the latest summary. Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.49% Alvarion 3523 6.09% Ubiquity 1140 1.97% Canopy 34373 59.38% Other 4585 7.92% Trango 9276 16.02% MT 4707 8.13% Total 57890 100.00% Responses 66 - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] I tired but it wouldn't let me submit my answers. kept saying that I needed to put in a positive number. I even tried putting 0 into all open fields. Oh well. 6 alvarion 200 or so smartbridges are probably still out there. 300 to 400 tranzeo a handful of trango. at least 6 different brands of ap's. More and more MT for that though. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Book1.xls
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008, Mac Dearman wrote: [Mac says] I don't know anyone in Louisiana utilizing Canopy today. Yes, you do(Jay D. down south of you). ;-) -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
