Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Where is here? On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Dan Ferguson d...@kyes.com wrote: We pay @ 4K/month for 3Mbps/512Kbps for a rural town, which is really 3Mbps on a 5x oversell. It's really ugly, so caching is a must. There is no hope for a better future either 8(. - Dan On 9/2/2010 8:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
10 towers in 50 miles means lots of nice customer access locations! grin marlon - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers No it's not...I didn't mean it that way. At least there are some mountains or something to wirelessly backhaul to another place. Where I am at it's just hills and hills and then some more hills. The hills usually run in an average of height of 100' - 300' of each other. Once you find a way to go 20 miles you hit another hill thats 300' higher than you were. So you either build a 1000' tower and hope for the best or you put up 10 towers to go 50 miles, either get VERY expensive. Scottie - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Idaho isn't exactly a booming metropolis. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/2/2010 11:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike -- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
We pay @ 4K/month for 3Mbps/512Kbps for a rural town, which is really 3Mbps on a 5x oversell. It's really ugly, so caching is a must. There is no hope for a better future either 8(. - Dan On 9/2/2010 8:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in theREAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
I sincerely believe that this is one area if the WISP's worked together and also used some outside the box thinking, can really benefit each other and their businesses. There is no clear cut solution that works for each and everyone. However there are a series of options to explore... Folks paying for DS3 / OC3 .. have to find a local or the local alternate fiber provider and try to be flexible in I want to get access @ this location vs.. @ Which location can you provide me with lowest cost access ? ... Folks also need to find alternate carriers.. In many cases, there are 3rd party 'transport providers' that have T1 contracts which are a lot less expensive than what the local provider charges for Internet Access... e.g. in the ILEC land, the ILEC is ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE To purchase IP transit from... there are always 3rd party providers who USE THEIR MSA's with the ILEC to get less expensive transport and purchase IP Transit from a Competitive provider.. In many cases, it has been less expensive to be able to purchase a Fat Pipe (OC3 / DS3 / 100Meg Ethernet / Gig E) transport to a far out Carrier Neutral Data Center and pickup IP Transit from there than to purchase IP Transit Locally.. . This is especially true for the folks who are spending more than $2500 in IP Transit. Many carrier will not tell you that the next tier is a lot less expensive...e.g 10meg Access is $800/month, however 100meg on a GIGE is $1200Unless you ask then explicitly... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 12:37 AM, Mark Dueck wrote: I'll repeat the same.. you're lucky if you can get it at 1000/ 6 meg. I pay 1000/ 1Mb here.. it's crazy. On 09/02/2010 10:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - *From:* Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
You guys have it all wrong IMO and should be counting your blessings that $1000 T1's still exist out there. Those are the areas a WISP can excel by offering a better valued service. Once all the $1000 T1's go away so will the little guys...YOU! Location - Location - Location Absolutely location makes a difference in bandwidth cost regardless of who is providing service. If not, you're saying providing service to your neighbor is the same as providing service to a friend in another county. What about your tower, additional radios, additional infrastructure support costs that you will incur to provide this service to Uncle Jeb's farm in the middle of nowhere? Does it really cost you the same to provide service in both these examples? I think not. There is no benefit being the first in the race to $0.00...enjoy the fact there are hundreds if not thousands of markets across America where WISPs are needed because of the $1000k T1. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 11:28 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers You got that right. Location, location, location We'll screw you for all we can get unless you can get it cheaper kinda BS. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers CHEAP is territorial - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Idaho isn't exactly a booming metropolis. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/2/2010 11:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - *From:* Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the contract for. We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out of Miami... If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting 'transport' to Atlanta / Telx 56 Marrietta, and picking up IP transit from there, we will be more than happy to guide them / help them explore as to what is there best option. I know of other ISP's who have great contracts out of Dallas and other Data Centers that would be willing to do such as well. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: I've been beating that drum for years, Faisal. Most don't want to hear it and would rather keep crying. I've only found a couple that truly have limited options. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/3/2010 5:04 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I sincerely believe that this is one area if the WISP's worked together and also used some outside the box thinking, can really benefit each other and their businesses. There is no clear cut solution that works for each and everyone. However there are a series of options to explore... Folks paying for DS3 / OC3 .. have to find a local or the local alternate fiber provider and try to be flexible in I want to get access @ this location vs.. @ Which location can you provide me with lowest cost access ? ... Folks also need to find alternate carriers.. In many cases, there are 3rd party 'transport providers' that have T1 contracts which are a lot less expensive than what the local provider charges for Internet Access... e.g. in the ILEC land, the ILEC is ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE To purchase IP transit from... there are always 3rd party providers who USE THEIR MSA's with the ILEC to get less expensive transport and purchase IP Transit from a Competitive provider.. In many cases, it has been less expensive to be able to purchase a Fat Pipe (OC3 / DS3 / 100Meg Ethernet / Gig E) transport to a far out Carrier Neutral Data Center and pickup IP Transit from there than to purchase IP Transit Locally.. . This is especially true for the folks who are spending more than $2500 in IP Transit. Many carrier will not tell you that the next tier is a lot less expensive...e.g 10meg Access is $800/month, however 100meg on a GIGE is $1200Unless you ask then explicitly... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 12:37 AM, Mark Dueck wrote: I'll repeat the same.. you're lucky if you can get it at 1000/ 6 meg. I pay 1000/ 1Mb here.. it's crazy. On 09/02/2010 10:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - *From:* Travis Johnsonmailto:t...@ida.net *To:* WISPA General Listmailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnsont...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Faisal- I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to engage in business with carriers. Any input is appreciated. Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the contract for. We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out of Miami... If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting 'transport' to Atlanta / Telx 56 Marrietta, and picking up IP transit from there, we will be more than happy to guide them / help them explore as to what is there best option. I know of other ISP's who have great contracts out of Dallas and other Data Centers that would be willing to do such as well. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: I've been beating that drum for years, Faisal. Most don't want to hear it and would rather keep crying. I've only found a couple that truly have limited options. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/3/2010 5:04 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I sincerely believe that this is one area if the WISP's worked together and also used some outside the box thinking, can really benefit each other and their businesses. There is no clear cut solution that works for each and everyone. However there are a series of options to explore... Folks paying for DS3 / OC3 .. have to find a local or the local alternate fiber provider and try to be flexible in I want to get access @ this location vs.. @ Which location can you provide me with lowest cost access ? ... Folks also need to find alternate carriers.. In many cases, there are 3rd party 'transport providers' that have T1 contracts which are a lot less expensive than what the local provider charges for Internet Access... e.g. in the ILEC land, the ILEC is ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE To purchase IP transit from... there are always 3rd party providers who USE THEIR MSA's with the ILEC to get less expensive transport and purchase IP Transit from a Competitive provider.. In many cases, it has been less expensive to be able to purchase a Fat Pipe (OC3 / DS3 / 100Meg Ethernet / Gig E) transport to a far out Carrier Neutral Data Center and pickup IP Transit from there than to purchase IP Transit Locally.. . This is especially true for the folks who are spending more than $2500 in IP Transit. Many carrier will not tell you that the next tier is a lot less expensive...e.g 10meg Access is $800/month, however 100meg on a GIGE is $1200Unless you ask then explicitly... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 12:37 AM, Mark Dueck wrote: I'll repeat the same.. you're lucky if you can get it at 1000/ 6 meg. I pay 1000/ 1Mb here.. it's crazy. On 09/02/2010 10:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - *From:* Travis Johnsonmailto:t...@ida.net *To:* WISPA General Listmailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike --- - *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Er, small clarification. Transport. Transit is straightforward once out of here (130 miles to carrier hotel). Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Goldberg Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:57 AM To: 'fai...@snappydsl.net'; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Faisal- I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to engage in business with carriers. Any input is appreciated. Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the contract for. We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out of Miami... If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting 'transport' to Atlanta / Telx 56 Marrietta, and picking up IP transit from there, we will be more than happy to guide them / help them explore as to what is there best option. I know of other ISP's who have great contracts out of Dallas and other Data Centers that would be willing to do such as well. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: I've been beating that drum for years, Faisal. Most don't want to hear it and would rather keep crying. I've only found a couple that truly have limited options. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/3/2010 5:04 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I sincerely believe that this is one area if the WISP's worked together and also used some outside the box thinking, can really benefit each other and their businesses. There is no clear cut solution that works for each and everyone. However there are a series of options to explore... Folks paying for DS3 / OC3 .. have to find a local or the local alternate fiber provider and try to be flexible in I want to get access @ this location vs.. @ Which location can you provide me with lowest cost access ? ... Folks also need to find alternate carriers.. In many cases, there are 3rd party 'transport providers' that have T1 contracts which are a lot less expensive than what the local provider charges for Internet Access... e.g. in the ILEC land, the ILEC is ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE To purchase IP transit from... there are always 3rd party providers who USE THEIR MSA's with the ILEC to get less expensive transport and purchase IP Transit from a Competitive provider.. In many cases, it has been less expensive to be able to purchase a Fat Pipe (OC3 / DS3 / 100Meg Ethernet / Gig E) transport to a far out Carrier Neutral Data Center and pickup IP Transit from there than to purchase IP Transit Locally.. . This is especially true for the folks who are spending more than $2500 in IP Transit. Many carrier will not tell you that the next tier is a lot less expensive...e.g 10meg Access is $800/month, however 100meg on a GIGE is $1200Unless you ask then explicitly... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 12:37 AM, Mark Dueck wrote: I'll repeat the same.. you're lucky if you can get it at 1000/ 6 meg. I pay 1000/ 1Mb here.. it's crazy. On 09/02/2010 10:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - *From:* Travis Johnsonmailto:t...@ida.net *To:* WISPA General Listmailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
If Hunter Newbie doesn't botch the Allied Fiber project, that should open up a lot of opportunity for WISPs within earshot of their fiber. They're planning on having a ring circling the US. The next leg will be going from Ashburn down to Miami. I'm trying to get WISPs all along the routes to bond together to haul back to a Chicago or a New York where you can buy transit for $1/meg. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/3/2010 6:45 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the contract for. We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out of Miami... If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting 'transport' to Atlanta / Telx 56 Marrietta, and picking up IP transit from there, we will be more than happy to guide them / help them explore as to what is there best option. I know of other ISP's who have great contracts out of Dallas and other Data Centers that would be willing to do such as well. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: I've been beating that drum for years, Faisal. Most don't want to hear it and would rather keep crying. I've only found a couple that truly have limited options. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/3/2010 5:04 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I sincerely believe that this is one area if the WISP's worked together and also used some outside the box thinking, can really benefit each other and their businesses. There is no clear cut solution that works for each and everyone. However there are a series of options to explore... Folks paying for DS3 / OC3 .. have to find a local or the local alternate fiber provider and try to be flexible in I want to get access @ this location vs.. @ Which location can you provide me with lowest cost access ? ... Folks also need to find alternate carriers.. In many cases, there are 3rd party 'transport providers' that have T1 contracts which are a lot less expensive than what the local provider charges for Internet Access... e.g. in the ILEC land, the ILEC is ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE To purchase IP transit from... there are always 3rd party providers who USE THEIR MSA's with the ILEC to get less expensive transport and purchase IP Transit from a Competitive provider.. In many cases, it has been less expensive to be able to purchase a Fat Pipe (OC3 / DS3 / 100Meg Ethernet / Gig E) transport to a far out Carrier Neutral Data Center and pickup IP Transit from there than to purchase IP Transit Locally.. . This is especially true for the folks who are spending more than $2500 in IP Transit. Many carrier will not tell you that the next tier is a lot less expensive...e.g 10meg Access is $800/month, however 100meg on a GIGE is $1200Unless you ask then explicitly... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy InternetTelecom On 9/3/2010 12:37 AM, Mark Dueck wrote: I'll repeat the same.. you're lucky if you can get it at 1000/ 6 meg. I pay 1000/ 1Mb here.. it's crazy. On 09/02/2010 10:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - *From:* Travis Johnsonmailto:t...@ida.net *To:* WISPA General Listmailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
There are many ways to do this, which one is best, really depends on the 'Trust Level' in the group. I have found that it is easier to develop trust on a one on one basis, ( I trust you , and you trust John, so by the virtue of my trust in you, I can trust John...etc).Sometimes doing things at a Group Level tends to be better other times, it complicates simple matters. The most important thing to keep in mind is that, the agreements should be aligned to make sure that everyone's interests are in alignment. In most of my dealings, the primary contract is held by one of the ISP, and they are billing the 'downstream' isp. e.g. We are the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Atlanta and another ISP is the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Miami, etc... The key area of contentions are two 1. Make sure that the Primary Contract holder is financially strong and not going to dip out on the contract. 2. Make sure that ISP/WISP's have a good / open communication among each other and have a high level of Trust between each other. --- Heck, most of the Wireline ISP's in Florida are now 'private peered' with each other, have been buying / selling excess capacity and leveraging existing contracts for distance sensitive services from each other's POP's... And now, working on doing the SAME one our Wireless Networks as we are building them out It makes no sense for me to go into the next county to build a tower when I can purchase access at a pre-negotiated rate from the ISP who is 'Local' to that county.. and vice versa. ..Yes, most of us are not going after the sub $50 or accounts... Those tend to be piddly.. rather just refer those customers to the local ISP/WISP, but getting customers who are looking for t1 replacements / upgrade or Metro Ethernet Replacements / upgrades running into hundreds of $ / month. plenty of margin to keep everyone happy.. makes it a far better business practice than the alternative. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:56 AM, Ryan Goldberg wrote: Faisal- I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to engage in business with carriers. Any input is appreciated. Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the contract for. We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out of Miami... If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting 'transport' to Atlanta / Telx 56 Marrietta, and picking up IP transit from there, we will be more than happy to guide them / help them explore as to what is there best option. I know of other ISP's who have great contracts out of Dallas and other Data Centers that would be willing to do such as well. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: I've been beating that drum for years, Faisal. Most don't want to hear it and would rather keep crying. I've only found a couple that truly have limited options. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/3/2010 5:04 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I sincerely believe that this is one area if the WISP's worked together and also used some outside the box thinking, can really benefit each other and their businesses. There is no clear cut solution that works for each and everyone. However there are a series of options to explore... Folks paying for DS3 / OC3 .. have to find a local or the local alternate fiber provider and try to be flexible in I want to get access @ this location vs.. @ Which location can you provide me with lowest cost access ? ... Folks also need to find alternate carriers.. In many cases, there are 3rd party 'transport providers' that have T1 contracts which are a lot less expensive than what the local provider charges for Internet Access... e.g. in the ILEC land, the ILEC is ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE To purchase IP transit from... there are always 3rd party providers who USE THEIR MSA's with the ILEC to get less expensive transport and purchase IP Transit from a Competitive provider.. In many cases, it has been less expensive to be able to purchase a Fat Pipe (OC3 / DS3 / 100Meg Ethernet / Gig E) transport to a far out Carrier Neutral Data Center and pickup IP Transit from there than to purchase IP
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnsont...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Cogent has a colo facility in Jackson MS that is about 100 miles away from me on I20. How do I locate these alternate transit providers. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: There are many ways to do this, which one is best, really depends on the 'Trust Level' in the group. I have found that it is easier to develop trust on a one on one basis, ( I trust you , and you trust John, so by the virtue of my trust in you, I can trust John...etc).Sometimes doing things at a Group Level tends to be better other times, it complicates simple matters. The most important thing to keep in mind is that, the agreements should be aligned to make sure that everyone's interests are in alignment. In most of my dealings, the primary contract is held by one of the ISP, and they are billing the 'downstream' isp. e.g. We are the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Atlanta and another ISP is the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Miami, etc... The key area of contentions are two 1. Make sure that the Primary Contract holder is financially strong and not going to dip out on the contract. 2. Make sure that ISP/WISP's have a good / open communication among each other and have a high level of Trust between each other. --- Heck, most of the Wireline ISP's in Florida are now 'private peered' with each other, have been buying / selling excess capacity and leveraging existing contracts for distance sensitive services from each other's POP's... And now, working on doing the SAME one our Wireless Networks as we are building them out It makes no sense for me to go into the next county to build a tower when I can purchase access at a pre-negotiated rate from the ISP who is 'Local' to that county.. and vice versa. ..Yes, most of us are not going after the sub $50 or accounts... Those tend to be piddly.. rather just refer those customers to the local ISP/WISP, but getting customers who are looking for t1 replacements / upgrade or Metro Ethernet Replacements / upgrades running into hundreds of $ / month. plenty of margin to keep everyone happy.. makes it a far better business practice than the alternative. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:56 AM, Ryan Goldberg wrote: Faisal- I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to engage in business with carriers. Any input is appreciated. Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the contract for. We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out of Miami... If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting 'transport' to Atlanta / Telx 56 Marrietta, and picking up IP transit from there, we will be more than happy to guide them / help them explore as to what is there best option. I know of other ISP's who have great contracts out of Dallas and other Data Centers that would be willing to do such as well. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: I've been beating that drum for years, Faisal. Most don't want to hear it and would rather keep crying. I've only found a couple that truly have limited options. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/3/2010 5:04 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I sincerely believe that this is one area if the WISP's worked together and also used some outside the box thinking, can really benefit each other and their businesses. There is no clear cut solution that works for each and everyone. However there are a series of options to explore... Folks paying for DS3 / OC3 .. have to find a local or the local alternate fiber provider and try to be flexible in I want to get access @ this location vs.. @ Which location can you provide me with lowest cost access ? ... Folks also need to find alternate carriers.. In many cases, there are 3rd party 'transport providers' that have T1 contracts which are a lot less expensive than what the local provider charges for Internet Access... e.g. in the ILEC land, the ILEC is ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE To purchase IP transit from... there are always 3rd party providers who USE THEIR MSA's with the ILEC to get less
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
I would suggest some of the following as starting points... 1. See if your local power company has an affiliated fiber transport provider. 2. Check with local county / permitting department to see who if any took out right of way permits for Fiber installs. 3. Who is your local Cable Company ? Talk to them. 4... The MOST IMPORTANT thing to keep in mind is that .. You have to ask questions in a specific but direct manner... e.g. can u provide me with Fiber transport to the Cogent Location (Address ) ? the answer may be yes, and in a few days they will tell you it will cost x$...and then you can ask the Question.. What would it cost for you to provide me with Fiber transport to Atlanta/Telx ... in a few days you get an answer of y$ You may be surprised to find out that y$ is less than x$ 5. See if there are any other ISP/WISP, in this 100 mile distance that are willing to work with you in a joint manner. 6. Last but not least... Who is your local Telco ? Some of the smaller LEC's are now warming up to selling Fat Pipe/ Transport to the Major Peering Points.. (e.g. most recently, a fellow ISP has negotiated Gig E transport from his small town to Atlanta/ Telx for a lot less than what it was costing him to get 100meg of Internet Transit from the same LEC !. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 8:33 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Cogent has a colo facility in Jackson MS that is about 100 miles away from me on I20. How do I locate these alternate transit providers. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Faisal Imtiazfai...@snappydsl.net wrote: There are many ways to do this, which one is best, really depends on the 'Trust Level' in the group. I have found that it is easier to develop trust on a one on one basis, ( I trust you , and you trust John, so by the virtue of my trust in you, I can trust John...etc).Sometimes doing things at a Group Level tends to be better other times, it complicates simple matters. The most important thing to keep in mind is that, the agreements should be aligned to make sure that everyone's interests are in alignment. In most of my dealings, the primary contract is held by one of the ISP, and they are billing the 'downstream' isp. e.g. We are the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Atlanta and another ISP is the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Miami, etc... The key area of contentions are two 1. Make sure that the Primary Contract holder is financially strong and not going to dip out on the contract. 2. Make sure that ISP/WISP's have a good / open communication among each other and have a high level of Trust between each other. --- Heck, most of the Wireline ISP's in Florida are now 'private peered' with each other, have been buying / selling excess capacity and leveraging existing contracts for distance sensitive services from each other's POP's... And now, working on doing the SAME one our Wireless Networks as we are building them out It makes no sense for me to go into the next county to build a tower when I can purchase access at a pre-negotiated rate from the ISP who is 'Local' to that county.. and vice versa. ..Yes, most of us are not going after the sub $50 or accounts... Those tend to be piddly.. rather just refer those customers to the local ISP/WISP, but getting customers who are looking for t1 replacements / upgrade or Metro Ethernet Replacements / upgrades running into hundreds of $ / month. plenty of margin to keep everyone happy.. makes it a far better business practice than the alternative. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:56 AM, Ryan Goldberg wrote: Faisal- I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to engage in business with carriers. Any input is appreciated. Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the contract for. We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out of Miami... If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting 'transport' to Atlanta / Telx 56 Marrietta, and picking up IP transit from there, we will be more than happy to guide them / help them explore as to what is there best option. I know of other ISP's who have great contracts out of Dallas and other Data Centers that would
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Pricing here is what I think is competitive. 100meg for 2800.00 but I am looking for a second connection so it never hurts. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: I would suggest some of the following as starting points... 1. See if your local power company has an affiliated fiber transport provider. 2. Check with local county / permitting department to see who if any took out right of way permits for Fiber installs. 3. Who is your local Cable Company ? Talk to them. 4... The MOST IMPORTANT thing to keep in mind is that .. You have to ask questions in a specific but direct manner... e.g. can u provide me with Fiber transport to the Cogent Location (Address ) ? the answer may be yes, and in a few days they will tell you it will cost x$...and then you can ask the Question.. What would it cost for you to provide me with Fiber transport to Atlanta/Telx ... in a few days you get an answer of y$ You may be surprised to find out that y$ is less than x$ 5. See if there are any other ISP/WISP, in this 100 mile distance that are willing to work with you in a joint manner. 6. Last but not least... Who is your local Telco ? Some of the smaller LEC's are now warming up to selling Fat Pipe/ Transport to the Major Peering Points.. (e.g. most recently, a fellow ISP has negotiated Gig E transport from his small town to Atlanta/ Telx for a lot less than what it was costing him to get 100meg of Internet Transit from the same LEC !. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 8:33 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Cogent has a colo facility in Jackson MS that is about 100 miles away from me on I20. How do I locate these alternate transit providers. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Faisal Imtiazfai...@snappydsl.net wrote: There are many ways to do this, which one is best, really depends on the 'Trust Level' in the group. I have found that it is easier to develop trust on a one on one basis, ( I trust you , and you trust John, so by the virtue of my trust in you, I can trust John...etc).Sometimes doing things at a Group Level tends to be better other times, it complicates simple matters. The most important thing to keep in mind is that, the agreements should be aligned to make sure that everyone's interests are in alignment. In most of my dealings, the primary contract is held by one of the ISP, and they are billing the 'downstream' isp. e.g. We are the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Atlanta and another ISP is the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Miami, etc... The key area of contentions are two 1. Make sure that the Primary Contract holder is financially strong and not going to dip out on the contract. 2. Make sure that ISP/WISP's have a good / open communication among each other and have a high level of Trust between each other. --- Heck, most of the Wireline ISP's in Florida are now 'private peered' with each other, have been buying / selling excess capacity and leveraging existing contracts for distance sensitive services from each other's POP's... And now, working on doing the SAME one our Wireless Networks as we are building them out It makes no sense for me to go into the next county to build a tower when I can purchase access at a pre-negotiated rate from the ISP who is 'Local' to that county.. and vice versa. ..Yes, most of us are not going after the sub $50 or accounts... Those tend to be piddly.. rather just refer those customers to the local ISP/WISP, but getting customers who are looking for t1 replacements / upgrade or Metro Ethernet Replacements / upgrades running into hundreds of $ / month. plenty of margin to keep everyone happy.. makes it a far better business practice than the alternative. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:56 AM, Ryan Goldberg wrote: Faisal- I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to engage in business with carriers. Any input is appreciated. Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the contract for. We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out of Miami... If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Sorry / forgot to say.. Total $ wise you are falling into the range where your savings are not necessarily going to be in form of a reduced monthly bill.. but more like you could get twice the amount of bandwidth for the same spending ... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 9:00 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Pricing here is what I think is competitive. 100meg for 2800.00 but I am looking for a second connection so it never hurts. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Faisal Imtiazfai...@snappydsl.net wrote: I would suggest some of the following as starting points... 1. See if your local power company has an affiliated fiber transport provider. 2. Check with local county / permitting department to see who if any took out right of way permits for Fiber installs. 3. Who is your local Cable Company ? Talk to them. 4... The MOST IMPORTANT thing to keep in mind is that .. You have to ask questions in a specific but direct manner... e.g. can u provide me with Fiber transport to the Cogent Location (Address ) ? the answer may be yes, and in a few days they will tell you it will cost x$...and then you can ask the Question.. What would it cost for you to provide me with Fiber transport to Atlanta/Telx ... in a few days you get an answer of y$ You may be surprised to find out that y$ is less than x$ 5. See if there are any other ISP/WISP, in this 100 mile distance that are willing to work with you in a joint manner. 6. Last but not least... Who is your local Telco ? Some of the smaller LEC's are now warming up to selling Fat Pipe/ Transport to the Major Peering Points.. (e.g. most recently, a fellow ISP has negotiated Gig E transport from his small town to Atlanta/ Telx for a lot less than what it was costing him to get 100meg of Internet Transit from the same LEC !. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 8:33 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Cogent has a colo facility in Jackson MS that is about 100 miles away from me on I20. How do I locate these alternate transit providers. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Faisal Imtiazfai...@snappydsl.net wrote: There are many ways to do this, which one is best, really depends on the 'Trust Level' in the group. I have found that it is easier to develop trust on a one on one basis, ( I trust you , and you trust John, so by the virtue of my trust in you, I can trust John...etc).Sometimes doing things at a Group Level tends to be better other times, it complicates simple matters. The most important thing to keep in mind is that, the agreements should be aligned to make sure that everyone's interests are in alignment. In most of my dealings, the primary contract is held by one of the ISP, and they are billing the 'downstream' isp. e.g. We are the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Atlanta and another ISP is the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Miami, etc... The key area of contentions are two 1. Make sure that the Primary Contract holder is financially strong and not going to dip out on the contract. 2. Make sure that ISP/WISP's have a good / open communication among each other and have a high level of Trust between each other. --- Heck, most of the Wireline ISP's in Florida are now 'private peered' with each other, have been buying / selling excess capacity and leveraging existing contracts for distance sensitive services from each other's POP's... And now, working on doing the SAME one our Wireless Networks as we are building them out It makes no sense for me to go into the next county to build a tower when I can purchase access at a pre-negotiated rate from the ISP who is 'Local' to that county.. and vice versa. ..Yes, most of us are not going after the sub $50 or accounts... Those tend to be piddly.. rather just refer those customers to the local ISP/WISP, but getting customers who are looking for t1 replacements / upgrade or Metro Ethernet Replacements / upgrades running into hundreds of $ / month. plenty of margin to keep everyone happy.. makes it a far better business practice than the alternative. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:56 AM, Ryan Goldberg wrote: Faisal- I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to engage in business with carriers. Any input is appreciated. Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
More for the same is just like a savings. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 8:18 AM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: Sorry / forgot to say.. Total $ wise you are falling into the range where your savings are not necessarily going to be in form of a reduced monthly bill.. but more like you could get twice the amount of bandwidth for the same spending ... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 9:00 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Pricing here is what I think is competitive. 100meg for 2800.00 but I am looking for a second connection so it never hurts. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Faisal Imtiazfai...@snappydsl.net wrote: I would suggest some of the following as starting points... 1. See if your local power company has an affiliated fiber transport provider. 2. Check with local county / permitting department to see who if any took out right of way permits for Fiber installs. 3. Who is your local Cable Company ? Talk to them. 4... The MOST IMPORTANT thing to keep in mind is that .. You have to ask questions in a specific but direct manner... e.g. can u provide me with Fiber transport to the Cogent Location (Address ) ? the answer may be yes, and in a few days they will tell you it will cost x$...and then you can ask the Question.. What would it cost for you to provide me with Fiber transport to Atlanta/Telx ... in a few days you get an answer of y$ You may be surprised to find out that y$ is less than x$ 5. See if there are any other ISP/WISP, in this 100 mile distance that are willing to work with you in a joint manner. 6. Last but not least... Who is your local Telco ? Some of the smaller LEC's are now warming up to selling Fat Pipe/ Transport to the Major Peering Points.. (e.g. most recently, a fellow ISP has negotiated Gig E transport from his small town to Atlanta/ Telx for a lot less than what it was costing him to get 100meg of Internet Transit from the same LEC !. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 8:33 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: Cogent has a colo facility in Jackson MS that is about 100 miles away from me on I20. How do I locate these alternate transit providers. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Faisal Imtiazfai...@snappydsl.net wrote: There are many ways to do this, which one is best, really depends on the 'Trust Level' in the group. I have found that it is easier to develop trust on a one on one basis, ( I trust you , and you trust John, so by the virtue of my trust in you, I can trust John...etc).Sometimes doing things at a Group Level tends to be better other times, it complicates simple matters. The most important thing to keep in mind is that, the agreements should be aligned to make sure that everyone's interests are in alignment. In most of my dealings, the primary contract is held by one of the ISP, and they are billing the 'downstream' isp. e.g. We are the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Atlanta and another ISP is the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Miami, etc... The key area of contentions are two 1. Make sure that the Primary Contract holder is financially strong and not going to dip out on the contract. 2. Make sure that ISP/WISP's have a good / open communication among each other and have a high level of Trust between each other. --- Heck, most of the Wireline ISP's in Florida are now 'private peered' with each other, have been buying / selling excess capacity and leveraging existing contracts for distance sensitive services from each other's POP's... And now, working on doing the SAME one our Wireless Networks as we are building them out It makes no sense for me to go into the next county to build a tower when I can purchase access at a pre-negotiated rate from the ISP who is 'Local' to that county.. and vice versa. ..Yes, most of us are not going after the sub $50 or accounts... Those tend to be piddly.. rather just refer those customers to the local ISP/WISP, but getting customers who are looking for t1 replacements / upgrade or Metro Ethernet Replacements / upgrades running into hundreds of $ / month. plenty of margin to keep everyone happy.. makes it a far better business practice than the alternative. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:56 AM, Ryan Goldberg wrote: Faisal- I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to engage in business with carriers. Any input is appreciated. Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
I assume you are meaning the Mississippi Telcom center at 111 East Capitol? (800) 354-7695 is the number I have for them. -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 07:33:03 -0500 To: fai...@snappydsl.net fai...@snappydsl.net, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Cogent has a colo facility in Jackson MS that is about 100 miles away from me on I20. How do I locate these alternate transit providers. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: There are many ways to do this, which one is best, really depends on the 'Trust Level' in the group. I have found that it is easier to develop trust on a one on one basis, ( I trust you , and you trust John, so by the virtue of my trust in you, I can trust John...etc).Sometimes doing things at a Group Level tends to be better other times, it complicates simple matters. The most important thing to keep in mind is that, the agreements should be aligned to make sure that everyone's interests are in alignment. In most of my dealings, the primary contract is held by one of the ISP, and they are billing the 'downstream' isp. e.g. We are the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Atlanta and another ISP is the primary contract holder for IP Transit out of Miami, etc... The key area of contentions are two 1. Make sure that the Primary Contract holder is financially strong and not going to dip out on the contract. 2. Make sure that ISP/WISP's have a good / open communication among each other and have a high level of Trust between each other. --- Heck, most of the Wireline ISP's in Florida are now 'private peered' with each other, have been buying / selling excess capacity and leveraging existing contracts for distance sensitive services from each other's POP's... And now, working on doing the SAME one our Wireless Networks as we are building them out It makes no sense for me to go into the next county to build a tower when I can purchase access at a pre-negotiated rate from the ISP who is 'Local' to that county.. and vice versa. ..Yes, most of us are not going after the sub $50 or accounts... Those tend to be piddly.. rather just refer those customers to the local ISP/WISP, but getting customers who are looking for t1 replacements / upgrade or Metro Ethernet Replacements / upgrades running into hundreds of $ / month. plenty of margin to keep everyone happy.. makes it a far better business practice than the alternative. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:56 AM, Ryan Goldberg wrote: Faisal- I'm working to organize group-buys of transit out of my own internet backwater. I'm curious as to what (if any) legal entity was formed/used to engage in business with carriers. Any input is appreciated. Ryan -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Mike, Keep beating the drum, maybe sooner than later it will sink in. FWIW, we have been doing this with a few of other Wireline ISP's as well I myself am sharing into circuits / IP transit contract held by other ISP's and also have others sharing into circuits that I have the contract for. We are doing that out of two cities, Atlanta and Miami, in some cases getting stuff out of Atlanta was less expensive, and in other cases out of Miami... If any of the WISP's wish to explore getting 'transport' to Atlanta / Telx 56 Marrietta, and picking up IP transit from there, we will be more than happy to guide them / help them explore as to what is there best option. I know of other ISP's who have great contracts out of Dallas and other Data Centers that would be willing to do such as well. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/3/2010 7:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: I've been beating that drum for years, Faisal. Most don't want to hear it and would rather keep crying. I've only found a couple that truly have limited options. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/3/2010 5:04 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I sincerely believe that this is one area if the WISP's worked together and also used some outside the box thinking, can really benefit each other and their businesses. There is no clear cut solution that works for each and everyone. However there are a series of options to explore... Folks paying for DS3 / OC3 .. have to find a local or the local alternate fiber provider and try
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
No it's not...I didn't mean it that way. At least there are some mountains or something to wirelessly backhaul to another place. Where I am at it's just hills and hills and then some more hills. The hills usually run in an average of height of 100' - 300' of each other. Once you find a way to go 20 miles you hit another hill thats 300' higher than you were. So you either build a 1000' tower and hope for the best or you put up 10 towers to go 50 miles, either get VERY expensive. Scottie - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Idaho isn't exactly a booming metropolis. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/2/2010 11:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
ROUND UP + Air Plane = thousands in savings and pre made towers ;-) From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 3:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers No it's not...I didn't mean it that way. At least there are some mountains or something to wirelessly backhaul to another place. Where I am at it's just hills and hills and then some more hills. The hills usually run in an average of height of 100' - 300' of each other. Once you find a way to go 20 miles you hit another hill thats 300' higher than you were. So you either build a 1000' tower and hope for the best or you put up 10 towers to go 50 miles, either get VERY expensive. Scottie - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Idaho isn't exactly a booming metropolis. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/2/2010 11:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Could a squid caching server accomplish the same sort of bandwidth savings, maybe more due to the fact it is caching ALL the content not just Akamai? I've never use used a web cahce always had the bandwidth and the problems were not worth it When we had Mikrotik redirecting to squid we saved about 20 - 30 percent overall bandwidth. That was on a 50mbps circuit. Not only that it sped up popular sites quite a bit. The downside, so many sites gave trouble it just was not worth it. To much tech support. To enable it manually just for select sites will likely not be worth the time. I really wish websites were all proxy friendly. We could save some bandwidth and improve end user experience. Video streaming could even use encrypted cached chunks to save bandwidth through a proxy cache. Disk space is cheap. Could easilly put together a box with 4+ TB drives. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
CHEAP is territorial - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Consider yourself lucky...in the REAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
You got that right. Location, location, location We'll screw you for all we can get unless you can get it cheaper kinda BS. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers CHEAP is territorial - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
I'll repeat the same.. you're lucky if you can get it at 1000/ 6 meg. I pay 1000/ 1Mb here.. it's crazy. On 09/02/2010 10:16 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Consider yourself lucky...in theREAL rural areas we pay over $1000/mth for 6 meg connections. Scott - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join
[WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Could a squid caching server accomplish the same sort of bandwidth savings, maybe more due to the fact it is caching ALL the content not just Akamai? I've never use used a web cahce always had the bandwidth and the problems were not worth it Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Unless you are paying a FORTUNE for bandwidth, it's not worth doing. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 12:17 AM, Scott Carullo wrote: Could a squid caching server accomplish the same sort of bandwidth savings, maybe more due to the fact it is caching ALL the content not just Akamai? I've never use used a web cahce always had the bandwidth and the problems were not worth it Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
If you bundle Internet with phone it's actually not that hard to get over 500/month. I have several over 800. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 1, 2010, at 6:34 PM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday! Regards, Chuck On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business... I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may save me. And I can do this every day. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote: On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.). Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose. If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box. Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your users continue to surf the web normally. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
If you are selling dedicated 10M service for $500 and 10M cost YOU $500, how do you make money? Or is it really oversubscribed? _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
You monitor your usage on all the links up to, and including your backbone. If I have 100Meg from my core to a tower, does that mean I can only sell ten 10Meg connections? Not if my usage never goes above 50Mbps or even 80Mbps. I graph and monitor every single link, every port on every switch, etc. and we use that info to know when to upgrade links, etc. Out of five customers with 10Meg connections, only one of them actually bumps up against the 10Meg, and that's only for a couple hours per day. Businesses never use what they think they need... but when they run a speed test, they want to see 10Meg. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 7:21 PM, Mike wrote: If you are selling dedicated 10M service for $500 and 10M cost YOU $500, how do you make money? Or is it really oversubscribed? *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
I like your strategy. I wish my environment would support such an approach. The chances of several of them demanding the same bandwidth at the same time would be slight unless they all start running Netflix. Do you have an SLA that states the terms? Mike _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers You monitor your usage on all the links up to, and including your backbone. If I have 100Meg from my core to a tower, does that mean I can only sell ten 10Meg connections? Not if my usage never goes above 50Mbps or even 80Mbps. I graph and monitor every single link, every port on every switch, etc. and we use that info to know when to upgrade links, etc. Out of five customers with 10Meg connections, only one of them actually bumps up against the 10Meg, and that's only for a couple hours per day. Businesses never use what they think they need... but when they run a speed test, they want to see 10Meg. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 7:21 PM, Mike wrote: If you are selling dedicated 10M service for $500 and 10M cost YOU $500, how do you make money? Or is it really oversubscribed? _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers
No... we don't do SLA's for anyone. We have been in business for 15 years. Our reputation speaks for itself. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 7:46 PM, Mike wrote: I like your strategy. I wish my environment would support such an approach. The chances of several of them demanding the same bandwidth at the same time would be slight unless they all start running Netflix. Do you have an SLA that states the terms? Mike *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:34 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers You monitor your usage on all the links up to, and including your backbone. If I have 100Meg from my core to a tower, does that mean I can only sell ten 10Meg connections? Not if my usage never goes above 50Mbps or even 80Mbps. I graph and monitor every single link, every port on every switch, etc. and we use that info to know when to upgrade links, etc. Out of five customers with 10Meg connections, only one of them actually bumps up against the 10Meg, and that's only for a couple hours per day. Businesses never use what they think they need... but when they run a speed test, they want to see 10Meg. :) Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 7:21 PM, Mike wrote: If you are selling dedicated 10M service for $500 and 10M cost YOU $500, how do you make money? Or is it really oversubscribed? *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection (620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month. Travis Microserv On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote: I too would love to know that formula. I doubt if it would work in rural Tama County Iowa. Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint. My biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth. So even a statement that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me. Friendly Regards, Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
