Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Finklenet eh? Okay then, if it's kewl with you and you can sell it I guess it's kewl w/me LOL! At least your name isn't Richard Face ;) I got a couple of suggestions for you so pls see comments below... On 5/27/2010 10:08 AM, finkle dinkle wrote: Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. I did something like this in the past when I had a building in San Clemente. I went to a prominent household name of a tennant in my building that manufactured sunglasses - before they got super huge and moved further north into their own facilities in a giant building alongside the 405 freeway and... Told them I would like to bring them Internet service - at which point they told me (Politely, because I was in the same building as them) that they already had that taken care of. I explained that I would still like to do so regardless - for free. That I would help set up 'part' of their compay to use my service to them, say, non mission-critical machinery and some of their clerical personnel. I went on to offer that we could just leave it for a couple of months and then they could give me a call or I'd check back. My extreme candidness and it costs you nothing, no strings approach was compelling enough for them to give it a shot - against the recommendation of their IT dudette. so I hooked 'em up, by simply freelining across the roof since we didn't want to bother with a permanent connection, and made sure the CEO knew that they could use as little or as much as they wanted, no strings. About two and a half months went by and I said nothing, while their stats on the router continued to climb, until one day when I was walking out to my car going to lunch their IT dudette approached me. She said that their CEO wanted to have a chat with me, and so whenever it was convenient for me to just stop by. SOLD! Plus, I got to pick out about ten pairs of sunglasses and a couple of T-shirts for free too ;) We did a proper installation, and based on word of mouth in the building I sold the entire rest of the building, about 10 different suites/companies total. Finkle, it appears that you're not going to have a problem bringing in the service and eating it for a couple of months while you get customers, and prolly the best place to start to recoup your cost is right there in your own building. A superior service stands for itself, and knowing the Good Internet Service isn't going to remain free forever, they're prolly going to switch over in the short term. You just have to sell it, which is easy if you give it away free for a month or two. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. A perfect starting point - have other's pay for the connection you want for yourself and go from there ;) Just an idea. Hope that helps :) - -- Bradley D. Thornton Manager Network Services NorthTech Computer TEL: +1.760.666.2703 (US) TEL: +44.702.405.1909 (UK) http://NorthTech.US -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMAaBWAAoJEE1wgkIhr9j3OFsH/3IbG3TOdpgMc6o4ZOmmbM0l rDnLFNthJugMb1JhmoCqq0ohFkyW4HMRcwR0drc+Y8EZV2q/6SL75yok/ZvexKEI 44X628Esoxspe/zD1cuUMJ09LBGccOiQvnCZaffveFo9SHYWhm2MAzefkGPefljK lC2UtVoqiGGy/aUtRUAy3NC0ZlLaAzkrlnYoVRh9QDib0PIMlRLdMQ2fRO2GioPU ukUi4x29xwOWO9pctirdyXMlD5Gcq3ve4H0qJmbEiLX78cGgUSyktpCsjEu/f+yj EV258nufbZXJBUYYQTYydhVpCkK7bKOMvaZhDltR+mHoYvukeGB5iy517kEE5jk= =M3Gz -END PGP SIGNATURE- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
The whole argument is scale. You've already agreed that Canopy wins by scale. I don't disagree with any other statements said below, that isn't my point. And if you want to go the 5GHz route comparison, it should be only fair to use the 430 equipment... because you are using the new UBNT equipment in your basis. Now you can get much more aggregate throughput at up to 40MBps. And I don't know of many people buying non-advantage AP's since the cost difference is rather minimal. All of my AP's are Advantage. It is an Advantage AP getting that distance and he is connected in 2x mode with -66 on both sides. Cyclone 120 sectors work great, and so do RF Engineering's reflectors. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Show me the day that a UBNT product can have 160+ clients connected to it with sub 10ms ping times to them all. I cant. Canopy wins that one, atleast in PtMP mode. (Tenant building is different story, where we have a few CPEs to AP, but a lot of customers behind each CPE). If a super cell site design is needed, thats where Canopy and Trango shine. The Trango is calls because the capacity sucks. I dont agree with that, considering Trango has more capacity (9mbps) than a non-advantage basic Canopy AP (7mb aggregate, but less each way when a fixed ratio in each direction is configured, required for syncing). Obviously, Advantage series Canopy has more capacity, if the shorter range that product requires is acceptable for the coverage footprint. 2. Range wise, we have Moto clients 18 miles out. MikroTik/UBNT, we had them at 22 miles out. Those are extremes for us, so I don't see how range is an issue...unless you are working with 15+ mile customers for the majority...again, most of us are not. Antenna wise, there are available products from LMG to max out the EIRP. Again, I dont question that canopy scales better or the possibilty to get 18 mile range. But that claim is a bit misleading. We need to recognize noise floor and rain factor are also factors, that restrict range to less than the theoretical or ideal case range. Maybe in 2.4G or 900M 18 mile is typical, but not in 5.8 or 5.3. Lets use a link budget calculator and do the math... Trango 5.8Ghz AP... tx 22, ant 14, CPE 22tx, ant 25.@ 12 miles = -72 rssi. leaves 10db of fade margin, since sensitivity is -82 or so. Canopy specs are pretty close to Trango, but not sure exactly what they are, so guessing here... For Canopy 5.8Ap lets assume all the same specs, except the AP antenna only has an 8dbi int antenna. The maths says -78 rssi, and only 4.5db fade margin. Lets see what happens when we try to get 10db of fade margin equivellent to Trango, meaning -72 rssi the results are 6 miles. Exactly 1/2 the range of the Trango, with same size customer premise antenna. But do you really want to use a dish at customer sites? Lets do the math for 18 miles, and the Canopy will yield -82 rssi. Does one really want to operate a link without any fade margin? The problem gets worse with Canopy 5.3, at low power, where antenna gain is absolutely needed to get distance. A 14bi at AP and 15 SU will just barely get 2 miles with 10db of fade. 8db Canopy AP with Behive on CPE (at legal power limits) gets you 1 mile with same fade margin at the AP side. 8dbi antenna is a handicap. (again math may not be exact, if canopy has better sensitivity than written). I recognize a Canopy AP could use an external antenna, to make up for it. But there is an extra cost for that. Or a Beehive to up the CPE gain, but again a cost for that. I also recognize we were originally talking about comparing Ubiquiti to Canopy, (not trango). But the same principles apply. Sure a Canopy DSSS system will have more range than an OFDM one requiring higher modulation and worse sensitivity. But more comparable Advantage series also has half the range of a regular Canopy to keep this conversation fair. But again, with Ubiquiti I can get an AP operating at full EIRP by default, and have options for non-dish CPE units of higher gain than 8dbi. If someone looks at Canopy, I highly recommend that they consider higher gain AP antenna options. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp 1. While I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, show me the day that a UBNT product can have 160+ clients connected to it with sub 10ms ping times to them all. One single AP, passing 7mb aggregate of traffic. I've had Trango, Canopy
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Are you taking the M series into consideration when stating this? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 5/27/2010 4:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Ubiquiti will not do 50+ stations. Period. You might get 25 on low bandwidth rates (2x512). On 5/27/10, finkle dinklechar...@gmail.com wrote: Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chismjchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilsonli...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilsonj...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Ungerjun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
M Series with AirMax on is marketed to support 100 per Rocket. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 08:46:12 -0500 Are you taking the M series into consideration when stating this? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 5/27/2010 4:47 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Ubiquiti will not do 50+ stations. Period. You might get 25 on low bandwidth rates (2x512). On 5/27/10, finkle dinklechar...@gmail.com wrote: Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chismjchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilsonli...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilsonj...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Ungerjun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
If you can do the in building DSL in multiple buildings, consider PtP wireless links among the buildings. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 5/27/2010 8:48 PM, finkle dinkle wrote: Yep, I will look and test ubnt equipment.. I'm in no rush, just learning legalities and stuff. I never thought about vdsl from the phone room, that's a great idea.. Ultimately I'd love to bring a gig ptp in there and be able to do everything that I wanted to do in the past and be able to subsidize it by offering some wireless customers heavy bandwidth, I could beat the wimax pricing from towerstream at least. I'm looking to only gain like 10 business clients using wireless. I dont want to overwhelm myself. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Chuck Hoggch...@shelbybb.com wrote: Well...you need to look at it from another standpoint. A vast majority of businesses that we are going to be signing up are either 3-6MB/s DSL or us. You can oversubscribe a 430 AP very well at those rates. And I would argue that those customers wanting more bandwidth would be better served with a PtP connection and would definitely pay for it, considering the cost of the alternative (Fiber,DS3, MetroE, etc.). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I don't know about 50 - it totally depends on your customers' bandwidth rates. On 5/27/10, Jerry Richardsonjrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.comj284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry(r) -Original Message- From: finkle dinklechar...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hoggch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chismjchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Again before we compare who has the bigger Schwartz, high customer counts per AP are only relevant if you're selling small bandwidth. You cannot put 150x 15 megabit customers on a Canopy AP (you can't on UBNT either, for that matter). People have been clamoring high customer per AP densities for years, but I've found that specification to be useless because you can't simply do today's bandwidths on a system like that... especially what finkle dinkle is trying to do. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 5/27/2010 10:34 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: 1. While I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, show me the day that a UBNT product can have 160+ clients connected to it with sub 10ms ping times to them all. One single AP, passing 7mb aggregate of traffic. I've had Trango, Canopy, and a huge pusher of MikroTik (same proto as UBNT). Canopy by far beats them in scale, there is no question about it. Most non-Canopy people don't want to hear it, but I started drinking the Moto Kool Aid about a year ago. My support calls of customers on Trango vs Canopy vs Mikro/UBNT is astounding. For every 50 service calls, about 8 of them are for Canopy customers, where the installer did not properly use the correct size antenna or alignment was off. The others are Mikro/UBNT problems from interference or other issues. The Trango is calls because the capacity sucks. 2. Range wise, we have Moto clients 18 miles out. MikroTik/UBNT, we had them at 22 miles out. Those are extremes for us, so I don't see how range is an issue...unless you are working with 15+ mile customers for the majority...again, most of us are not. Antenna wise, there are available products from LMG to max out the EIRP. Anyone can do those shields for any type of antenna...regardless of UBNT or Canopy. The problem is, yes you can get 40 customers on an AP...split it up into sectors and get maybe 120. Do the same on Canopy, and it's 600+ clients per site. So, if you are looking to only do 120 (with perfect 0 interference from outside sources, which is highly unlikely in his urban market)...it scales. If you want more...you get the picture. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I am not disagreeing with the advantages of Canopy. No doubt Canopy is a quality carrier grade type system. BUT, to be fair There are other factors to consider.. 1) Syncing can be effective for spectrum reuse, and extremely useful. But, it can become less effective and sometimes can still be subject to self-interference as the nework grows, such as when the sub's distince away from towers varies drastically between sectors. The reason us that sectors can hear CPEs behinds it in some capacity, not just teh CPEs in front of it. For example, IF sector 1 has a sub at half mile, and Sector2 has sub at 10 miles. Sector2 may hear sector1's sub louder than it hears its own subscriber 10 miles away. For syncing to work optimally without self interference, all the Client's signal levels at the AP ideally should be received at similar signal strenth, so that the Front to back ratios of sector antennas is enough to isolate the two sectors. Whether that is possible may depend on the frequency range you use, and what antennas are available to easilly deploy. With Canopy C/I spec of 3db helps a lot, but the plastic case lets more noise reach the unit. We ran into this when comparingto Trango. trango only had about 7db C/I, but the thick metal case had muchbetter F?B than Canopy did, so it average out. 2) Canopies have signficantly shorter range because by default config (integrated antenna models) they use APs and SUs with lower DB antennas and wider beamwidths, so not able to operate at peak EIRP. Also note that gain by antenna has a double effect. Meaning for an AP, it increases the receives from CPEs as well as the transmits to CPEs. So a large penalty is taken if an AP has an lower DB antenna than competing products. Canopy has many different models now, and antenna design is not the same with them all, so I dont mean to stereotype the product line. In an Ubquiti AirMax solutions, they have optimally strong sector antenna options. And they have the flexibilty for a wide array of antenna choices for CPEs. That flexibility can be useful, and it is affordable to achieve. Saying that Ubiquiti wont be able to scale, and one day will need to be pulled out, is not necessarilly true. There are enhancements to beef up Ubiquiti. For example, some jsut made a nice steel antenna shield, that adds a huge amount of Front to back ratio teh
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
You are correct. I retract that statement. I have an AirMax AP up servicing business customers in a sector where I would not be adding more AP's in the same band. works great, latency is low, speed is high, customers are happy. this AP makes about $1000 a month -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 18:12 -0400, Jerry Richardson wrote: Your Moto bias will cost you. Here we go againthis is not NECESSARILY true. Let's not start this whole thread again...ok? -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Nope. But I sure do miss Rickeesha. :( -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 5:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Is that what you told Rickeesha? :) On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: That's why I had to change my name from Richard Head. That last name was a curse on this list. Now I have a last name that gets me more respect. -Richard Face -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
My favorite is those damn PS3 customers. If the PS3 servers sense even one time-out or several pings above what they want the customer calls screaming that we are at fault. It's forced us to follow our network back until we found a switch causing the intermittent time-outs (about one every 15 minutes or so). I guess I should be thankful that they caused me to diagnose our network finding a potential problem but I have to admit my first feeling is why don't you get a damn job instead of playing games all day... OK so that thought isn't so realistic but if Sony had a better software solution I wouldn't get these daily calls for my customers $59/month account, heck almost no other console gives me the heartache that PS3 does. On 5/27/2010 10:26 AM, Bret Clark wrote: On 05/27/2010 01:23 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. Wait a minute we have that customer too...so he's using you for a connection as well ;)! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
That's odd...every other mention of consoles includes Xbox problems and wishing it was as problem free as the PS3 and Wii. On 5/28/10, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: My favorite is those damn PS3 customers. If the PS3 servers sense even one time-out or several pings above what they want the customer calls screaming that we are at fault. It's forced us to follow our network back until we found a switch causing the intermittent time-outs (about one every 15 minutes or so). I guess I should be thankful that they caused me to diagnose our network finding a potential problem but I have to admit my first feeling is why don't you get a damn job instead of playing games all day... OK so that thought isn't so realistic but if Sony had a better software solution I wouldn't get these daily calls for my customers $59/month account, heck almost no other console gives me the heartache that PS3 does. On 5/27/2010 10:26 AM, Bret Clark wrote: On 05/27/2010 01:23 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. Wait a minute we have that customer too...so he's using you for a connection as well ;)! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
How ridiculous is this thread? Why wouldn't Jack have some fun with your 'title' name since its obviously false. And for those who act like we're insulting a new member we're not stupid, his name is Jason Philbrook not dinkle whatever and if he chooses to use a goofy name he opens himself up for a little teasing back, that's how it works in the 'we don't all have a thin skin' world. If Jason wants to be a member its because, as he's already shown in his interest in weening knowledge from our membership, there are a lot of reasons to join WISPA. This feigned sense of taking offense over something that's not even real is boring and unnecessary, move on to a more humorous Friday thread instead of trying to make Jack feel bad. On 5/27/2010 9:43 AM, finkle dinkle wrote: Thanks for the suggestion about changing my name, I'll be sure to download the forms, submit them and change my name to Jack Ungerton. Well, I know the capabilities of a NanoBridge M5 now as I've tested it for a friend but it was done for two buildings around 500 feet in distance. Is something as basic as a NanoBridge M5 doable or if you start getting into the commercial sector, do you start requiring better equipment ? I haven't been on a roof in a long time so I dont clearly remember what is visible from the top but I'm sure it's a lot. I just want to be able to provide decent pricing to the people and businesses here with symmetrical bandwidth. I haven't had time to figure out administrative costs and how I could provide support if there are any issues though. I would love to have something set up to provide service for a radius of a few miles but I'm not sure that's something I should be messing with. I pretty much am curious on if I were to sell a few hundred megs, what type of devices and how many devices at what cost will it be ? Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Randy Cosbydco...@infowest.com wrote: Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Xbox live has figured out how to deal with this. I was playing online with a crappy 900mhz connection at 50%ccq and still could play. PS3 would never be able to handle that amount of poor quality. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 09:15:16 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My favorite is those damn PS3 customers. If the PS3 servers sense even one time-out or several pings above what they want the customer calls screaming that we are at fault. It's forced us to follow our network back until we found a switch causing the intermittent time-outs (about one every 15 minutes or so). I guess I should be thankful that they caused me to diagnose our network finding a potential problem but I have to admit my first feeling is why don't you get a damn job instead of playing games all day... OK so that thought isn't so realistic but if Sony had a better software solution I wouldn't get these daily calls for my customers $59/month account, heck almost no other console gives me the heartache that PS3 does. On 5/27/2010 10:26 AM, Bret Clark wrote: On 05/27/2010 01:23 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. Wait a minute we have that customer too...so he's using you for a connection as well ;)! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Yeah, I can only remember one customer ever complaining about PS3 problems, the Xbox on the other hand, we have problems with all the time - although those are mainly caused by NAT, which doesn't seem to bother the PS3. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 11:25 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp That's odd...every other mention of consoles includes Xbox problems and wishing it was as problem free as the PS3 and Wii. On 5/28/10, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: My favorite is those damn PS3 customers. If the PS3 servers sense even one time-out or several pings above what they want the customer calls screaming that we are at fault. It's forced us to follow our network back until we found a switch causing the intermittent time-outs (about one every 15 minutes or so). I guess I should be thankful that they caused me to diagnose our network finding a potential problem but I have to admit my first feeling is why don't you get a damn job instead of playing games all day... OK so that thought isn't so realistic but if Sony had a better software solution I wouldn't get these daily calls for my customers $59/month account, heck almost no other console gives me the heartache that PS3 does. On 5/27/2010 10:26 AM, Bret Clark wrote: On 05/27/2010 01:23 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. Wait a minute we have that customer too...so he's using you for a connection as well ;)! - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
No laws against selling it. You just have to stay within the FCC power limits and regulations and you're smooth. LOS is cheap to use, no line of site is expensive but doable. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:56:53AM -0700, finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? Yes. You have to file a bunch of stuff to be Calea compliant. You also need to file a 477 with the FCC on a regular interval. In order to professionally install the radios we all use outdoors, you should be familar with the FCC part15 rules especially with regard to power output, interference, etc... If you get into VOIP, there are CPNI filings which are very serious not to skip. For working on a roof top, if there is a risk of falling, you may be required to have appropriately increased insurance and provide such proof to the building management. Even if you are self employed, there may be expectations on part of the building owner for you to obey OSHA safety guidelines working up there. Local codes may also require wiring and grounding to be done according to NEC, which means you should study that and/or hire an electrician for inspection/guidance. In an urban area, there is no simple answer for what works for NLOS. Depends on interference, construction materials, physics, etc... If you can't make more money than what you are doing, it's a negative effect on your present business activities. I have no idea what you can or should charge. If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Thanks for the suggestion about changing my name, I'll be sure to download the forms, submit them and change my name to Jack Ungerton. Well, I know the capabilities of a NanoBridge M5 now as I've tested it for a friend but it was done for two buildings around 500 feet in distance. Is something as basic as a NanoBridge M5 doable or if you start getting into the commercial sector, do you start requiring better equipment ? I haven't been on a roof in a long time so I dont clearly remember what is visible from the top but I'm sure it's a lot. I just want to be able to provide decent pricing to the people and businesses here with symmetrical bandwidth. I haven't had time to figure out administrative costs and how I could provide support if there are any issues though. I would love to have something set up to provide service for a radius of a few miles but I'm not sure that's something I should be messing with. I pretty much am curious on if I were to sell a few hundred megs, what type of devices and how many devices at what cost will it be ? Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Yeah. What the heck guys? If it was that involved 3/4's of the people on this list would be unemployed or doing something else. Someone needs to layout the bootstrap version for him. I can't do it on a blackberry -B- Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 10:33:25 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
100 Mbit doesn't exist in ptmp wireless. If your goal is to do a 12 mile gigabit link (which is going to be impossible in 1 hop) and then offer service to people inside the building, is there any existing wiring? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:43 PM, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the suggestion about changing my name, I'll be sure to download the forms, submit them and change my name to Jack Ungerton. Well, I know the capabilities of a NanoBridge M5 now as I've tested it for a friend but it was done for two buildings around 500 feet in distance. Is something as basic as a NanoBridge M5 doable or if you start getting into the commercial sector, do you start requiring better equipment ? I haven't been on a roof in a long time so I dont clearly remember what is visible from the top but I'm sure it's a lot. I just want to be able to provide decent pricing to the people and businesses here with symmetrical bandwidth. I haven't had time to figure out administrative costs and how I could provide support if there are any issues though. I would love to have something set up to provide service for a radius of a few miles but I'm not sure that's something I should be messing with. I pretty much am curious on if I were to sell a few hundred megs, what type of devices and how many devices at what cost will it be ? Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums.Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
That's why I had to change my name from Richard Head. That last name was a curse on this list. Now I have a last name that gets me more respect. -Richard Face -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums.Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
"Ungerton" sounds very nice; it's right up there with "Ungerville" which is way ahead of "Ungerberg". Unfortunately, "Ungerstanding" is already taken. To avoid confusion, you might want to consider a different first name... maybe "Biff" or "Roger". finkle dinkle wrote: Thanks for the suggestion about changing my name, I'll be sure to download the forms, submit them and change my name to "Jack Ungerton." Well, I know the capabilities of a NanoBridge M5 now as I've tested it for a friend but it was done for two buildings around 500 feet in distance. Is something as basic as a NanoBridge M5 doable or if you start getting into the "commercial" sector, do you start requiring better equipment ? I haven't been on a roof in a long time so I dont clearly remember what is visible from the top but I'm sure it's a lot. I just want to be able to provide decent pricing to the people and businesses here with symmetrical bandwidth. I haven't had time to figure out administrative costs and how I could provide support if there are any issues though. I would love to have something set up to provide service for a radius of a few miles but I'm not sure that's something I should be messing with. I pretty much am curious on if I were to sell a few hundred megs, what type of devices and how many devices at what cost will it be ? Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ "As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted." - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
If you haven't been in this business you probably don't fully understand the work involved so I agree that if your not making money it won't last long. Especially those 7am calls because the Internet isn't working (even though it may have nothing to do with your service) and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. I use expensive equipment to minimize problems but there are so many things outside of your control. Be willing to work and have thick skin. If it was easy everbody would do it. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:08 PM, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums.Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
On 05/27/2010 01:23 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. Wait a minute we have that customer too...so he's using you for a connection as well ;)! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Like this: http://netsys-direct.com/vdsl_products.php Bring your bandwidth to the Telco room and connect to your router Connect router to VDSL switch next to the telephone punch blocks Cross connect from the VDSL switch to the punch block on a pair to the customers unit Install a modem in the customer unit. Depending on the distance/condition of the existing phone line you can get up to 25Mbps without running new wires. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I knew when he asked me about load balancing routers something was up. I won't fight you over him that's for sure. Haha. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:26 PM, Bret Clark bcl...@spectraaccess.com wrote: On 05/27/2010 01:23 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. Wait a minute we have that customer too...so he's using you for a connection as well ;)! --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
1/2) UVerse is coming soon, box has been outside for 6 months on, neighbors can get it but not the building yet. 6mbit max dsl and 28/3 possible cable modem but it's usually unstable. 3) if I want to sell LOS, it's pretty flat if I recall, I dont know to what degree I can shoot LOS though, it may be smaller than I remember. 4) maybe 5 miles, would love 10. 5) want to be able to scale.. 50 megs each way would be great, 100 megs would be better (doubt I will have a customer for 100/100 but who knows) 6) if I could profit off it, why wouldn't I cater to the people who do want the symmetrical speeds, residential or business -- I have no discrimination towards people who work from home, like uploading pictures and working, I will obviously have to figure something out about file sharing. 7) I already get little sleep anyway ;) no I sleep well and very little amount of people nag me. I guess I'd have to learn to deal with it. 8/9) It's sort of like a service where I'm able to offer them a lot more than just wireless service. I could pretty much upsell them on everything else, referrals and stuff. With the potential clients I have lined up for inside the building, If i could get two 50/50 customers which I KNOW I could, I will do well. I never thought about using the existing phone lines in the building.. I wonder how ATT would react to that once they're ready to launch UVerse inside. I do like the ability to be able reach Maximum Speeds of 100 Mbps Symmetrical at distances up to 1,000 feet (300 m) as said on some of those VDSL modems but it's all maximum theoretical speeds anyway. I know I could differentiate myself from these bigger companies because of the possible level of Enterprise support I could offer, for example.. Offering the bigger companies space in the cage at the datacenter with service to allow them to set their servers offsite but pretty much be considered LAN since I could just send it via the PTP Fiber link. Also, I could obviously link up to any provider in Los Angeles via the meet me rooms. I'd probably plug into Hurricane Electric since they're unbelievably cheap but there are Premium Bandwidth Mix's out there that aren't too expensive and I think I could make a pretty good amount of money doing this. Richard, thinking about changing my name to Wilmington Wellington 3rd.. perhaps I could get money at me with that sort of a name. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I remember those days. Glad that ended 3 years ago, myself. On 5/27/10, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: 1/2) UVerse is coming soon, box has been outside for 6 months on, neighbors can get it but not the building yet. 6mbit max dsl and 28/3 possible cable modem but it's usually unstable. 3) if I want to sell LOS, it's pretty flat if I recall, I dont know to what degree I can shoot LOS though, it may be smaller than I remember. 4) maybe 5 miles, would love 10. 5) want to be able to scale.. 50 megs each way would be great, 100 megs would be better (doubt I will have a customer for 100/100 but who knows) 6) if I could profit off it, why wouldn't I cater to the people who do want the symmetrical speeds, residential or business -- I have no discrimination towards people who work from home, like uploading pictures and working, I will obviously have to figure something out about file sharing. 7) I already get little sleep anyway ;) no I sleep well and very little amount of people nag me. I guess I'd have to learn to deal with it. 8/9) It's sort of like a service where I'm able to offer them a lot more than just wireless service. I could pretty much upsell them on everything else, referrals and stuff. With the potential clients I have lined up for inside the building, If i could get two 50/50 customers which I KNOW I could, I will do well. I never thought about using the existing phone lines in the building.. I wonder how ATT would react to that once they're ready to launch UVerse inside. I do like the ability to be able reach Maximum Speeds of 100 Mbps Symmetrical at distances up to 1,000 feet (300 m) as said on some of those VDSL modems but it's all maximum theoretical speeds anyway. I know I could differentiate myself from these bigger companies because of the possible level of Enterprise support I could offer, for example.. Offering the bigger companies space in the cage at the datacenter with service to allow them to set their servers offsite but pretty much be considered LAN since I could just send it via the PTP Fiber link. Also, I could obviously link up to any provider in Los Angeles via the meet me rooms. I'd probably plug into Hurricane Electric since they're unbelievably cheap but there are Premium Bandwidth Mix's out there that aren't too expensive and I think I could make a pretty good amount of money doing this. Richard, thinking about changing my name to Wilmington Wellington 3rd.. perhaps I could get money at me with that sort of a name. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Are you trying to say that I'm just dreaming? I do appreciate everyone's input.. I bet a few people have had the same dream as I, then started it and figured out it wasn't all too easy.. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I remember those days. Glad that ended 3 years ago, myself. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
-Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp 1/2) UVerse is coming soon, box has been outside for 6 months on, neighbors can get it but not the building yet. 6mbit max dsl and 28/3 possible cable modem but it's usually unstable. With wireless you are not going to comptete on speed. Service/local guy/support/symmetrical speed are going to be your selling points. Sell based on speed and you'll get hammered. 3) if I want to sell LOS, it's pretty flat if I recall, I dont know to what degree I can shoot LOS though, it may be smaller than I remember. LOS gets you into the 5GHz equipment. - Canopy 430 ~21Mbps aggregate is the most stable unlicenced platform available at this time 4) maybe 5 miles, would love 10. No problem with the Canopy 430 - you'll see full speed at 5 mi and perhaps 2/3 speed at 10 5) want to be able to scale.. 50 megs each way would be great, 100 megs would be better (doubt I will have a customer for 100/100 but who knows) Nothing like that in PMP. you can use something like Ubiquity or other 802.11 to get higher speeds, however they are not as robust as Canopy, and it does not scale well due to lack of GPS based Tx/Rx timing 6) if I could profit off it, why wouldn't I cater to the people who do want the symmetrical speeds, residential or business -- I have no discrimination towards people who work from home, like uploading pictures and working, I will obviously have to figure something out about file sharing. When I say residential I am not including SOHO. Symmetrical is not really a selling feature for residential - Comcast/ATT has done a superb job convincing residential users that the only thing that matters is download speed. IF you focus on business, you can be quite profitable with fewer customers. 7) I already get little sleep anyway ;) no I sleep well and very little amount of people nag me. I guess I'd have to learn to deal with it. 8/9) It's sort of like a service where I'm able to offer them a lot more than just wireless service. I could pretty much upsell them on everything else, referrals and stuff. With the potential clients I have lined up for inside the building, If i could get two 50/50 customers which I KNOW I could, I will do well. In the building you can do the 50Mbps+ connections. Unfortunately not via wireless. I never thought about using the existing phone lines in the building.. I wonder how ATT would react to that once they're ready to launch UVerse inside. I do like the ability to be able reach Maximum Speeds of 100 Mbps Symmetrical at distances up to 1,000 feet (300 m) as said on some of those VDSL modems but it's all maximum theoretical speeds anyway. I know I could differentiate myself from these bigger companies because of the possible level of Enterprise support I could offer, for example.. Offering the bigger companies space in the cage at the datacenter with service to allow them to set their servers offsite but pretty much be considered LAN since I could just send it via the PTP Fiber link. Also, I could obviously link up to any provider in Los Angeles via the meet me rooms. I'd probably plug into Hurricane Electric since they're unbelievably cheap but there are Premium Bandwidth Mix's out there that aren't too expensive and I think I could make a pretty good amount of money doing this. BUSINESS SERVICE IS WHERE IT'S AT. Richard, thinking about changing my name to Wilmington Wellington 3rd.. perhaps I could get money at me with that sort of a name. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I kinda like finkle dinkle, it has a ring to it! Speaking of funny names: http://blogote.com/2008/resources/worlds-longest-domain-names-website-on-internet.html http://blogote.com/2008/technology/googles-funny-weird-surprising-domain-names.html On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
OrYou Dont Know Jack. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Don't_Know_Jack_(game) Whoops, back to the computer game Thread -- On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Ungerton sounds very nice; it's right up there with Ungerville which is way ahead of Ungerberg. Unfortunately, Ungerstanding is already taken. To avoid confusion, you might want to consider a different first name... maybe Biff or Roger. finkle dinkle wrote: Thanks for the suggestion about changing my name, I'll be sure to download the forms, submit them and change my name to Jack Ungerton. Well, I know the capabilities of a NanoBridge M5 now as I've tested it for a friend but it was done for two buildings around 500 feet in distance. Is something as basic as a NanoBridge M5 doable or if you start getting into the commercial sector, do you start requiring better equipment ? I haven't been on a roof in a long time so I dont clearly remember what is visible from the top but I'm sure it's a lot. I just want to be able to provide decent pricing to the people and businesses here with symmetrical bandwidth. I haven't had time to figure out administrative costs and how I could provide support if there are any issues though. I would love to have something set up to provide service for a radius of a few miles but I'm not sure that's something I should be messing with. I pretty much am curious on if I were to sell a few hundred megs, what type of devices and how many devices at what cost will it be ? Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Good list Jerry! I'd also recommend a good business plan in writing. Oh! 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? You meant 2-3 years, correct? ;) On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Ubiquiti will not do 50+ stations. Period. You might get 25 on low bandwidth rates (2x512). On 5/27/10, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
It still exists but not the degree other methods of access do. While high medium voltage use is still an option in some places, I was actually referring to the in-building aspect of the network. There is some cool equipment for that use: http://www.corinex.com/in-building-solution-2.html http://motorola.wirelessbroadbandsupport.com/solutions/bpl/ -RickG On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Is that what you told Rickeesha? :) On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: That's why I had to change my name from Richard Head. That last name was a curse on this list. Now I have a last name that gets me more respect. -Richard Face -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
CPEs are limited on APs. APs are limited in spectrum. On 5/27/10, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
And Motorola has a unique way of reusing spectrum...I've been blown away how you can reuse spectrum so easily with Canopy. I've got 4 towers that can see each other on the same frequency using canopy...do that with MT/UBNT/Tranzeo/StarOS...and you have this little problem called self-interference. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp CPEs are limited on APs. APs are limited in spectrum. On 5/27/10, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I don't know about 50 - it totally depends on your customers' bandwidth rates. On 5/27/10, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Well...you need to look at it from another standpoint. A vast majority of businesses that we are going to be signing up are either 3-6MB/s DSL or us. You can oversubscribe a 430 AP very well at those rates. And I would argue that those customers wanting more bandwidth would be better served with a PtP connection and would definitely pay for it, considering the cost of the alternative (Fiber,DS3, MetroE, etc.). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I don't know about 50 - it totally depends on your customers' bandwidth rates. On 5/27/10, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry(r) -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Yep, I will look and test ubnt equipment.. I'm in no rush, just learning legalities and stuff. I never thought about vdsl from the phone room, that's a great idea.. Ultimately I'd love to bring a gig ptp in there and be able to do everything that I wanted to do in the past and be able to subsidize it by offering some wireless customers heavy bandwidth, I could beat the wimax pricing from towerstream at least. I'm looking to only gain like 10 business clients using wireless. I dont want to overwhelm myself. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: Well...you need to look at it from another standpoint. A vast majority of businesses that we are going to be signing up are either 3-6MB/s DSL or us. You can oversubscribe a 430 AP very well at those rates. And I would argue that those customers wanting more bandwidth would be better served with a PtP connection and would definitely pay for it, considering the cost of the alternative (Fiber,DS3, MetroE, etc.). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I don't know about 50 - it totally depends on your customers' bandwidth rates. On 5/27/10, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry(r) -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I am not disagreeing with the advantages of Canopy. No doubt Canopy is a quality carrier grade type system. BUT, to be fair There are other factors to consider.. 1) Syncing can be effective for spectrum reuse, and extremely useful. But, it can become less effective and sometimes can still be subject to self-interference as the nework grows, such as when the sub's distince away from towers varies drastically between sectors. The reason us that sectors can hear CPEs behinds it in some capacity, not just teh CPEs in front of it. For example, IF sector 1 has a sub at half mile, and Sector2 has sub at 10 miles. Sector2 may hear sector1's sub louder than it hears its own subscriber 10 miles away. For syncing to work optimally without self interference, all the Client's signal levels at the AP ideally should be received at similar signal strenth, so that the Front to back ratios of sector antennas is enough to isolate the two sectors. Whether that is possible may depend on the frequency range you use, and what antennas are available to easilly deploy. With Canopy C/I spec of 3db helps a lot, but the plastic case lets more noise reach the unit. We ran into this when comparingto Trango. trango only had about 7db C/I, but the thick metal case had muchbetter F?B than Canopy did, so it average out. 2) Canopies have signficantly shorter range because by default config (integrated antenna models) they use APs and SUs with lower DB antennas and wider beamwidths, so not able to operate at peak EIRP. Also note that gain by antenna has a double effect. Meaning for an AP, it increases the receives from CPEs as well as the transmits to CPEs. So a large penalty is taken if an AP has an lower DB antenna than competing products. Canopy has many different models now, and antenna design is not the same with them all, so I dont mean to stereotype the product line. In an Ubquiti AirMax solutions, they have optimally strong sector antenna options. And they have the flexibilty for a wide array of antenna choices for CPEs. That flexibility can be useful, and it is affordable to achieve. Saying that Ubiquiti wont be able to scale, and one day will need to be pulled out, is not necessarilly true. There are enhancements to beef up Ubiquiti. For example, some jsut made a nice steel antenna shield, that adds a huge amount of Front to back ratio teh the Ubiquiti antenna. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: j284...@yahoo.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
1. While I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, show me the day that a UBNT product can have 160+ clients connected to it with sub 10ms ping times to them all. One single AP, passing 7mb aggregate of traffic. I've had Trango, Canopy, and a huge pusher of MikroTik (same proto as UBNT). Canopy by far beats them in scale, there is no question about it. Most non-Canopy people don't want to hear it, but I started drinking the Moto Kool Aid about a year ago. My support calls of customers on Trango vs Canopy vs Mikro/UBNT is astounding. For every 50 service calls, about 8 of them are for Canopy customers, where the installer did not properly use the correct size antenna or alignment was off. The others are Mikro/UBNT problems from interference or other issues. The Trango is calls because the capacity sucks. 2. Range wise, we have Moto clients 18 miles out. MikroTik/UBNT, we had them at 22 miles out. Those are extremes for us, so I don't see how range is an issue...unless you are working with 15+ mile customers for the majority...again, most of us are not. Antenna wise, there are available products from LMG to max out the EIRP. Anyone can do those shields for any type of antenna...regardless of UBNT or Canopy. The problem is, yes you can get 40 customers on an AP...split it up into sectors and get maybe 120. Do the same on Canopy, and it's 600+ clients per site. So, if you are looking to only do 120 (with perfect 0 interference from outside sources, which is highly unlikely in his urban market)...it scales. If you want more...you get the picture. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I am not disagreeing with the advantages of Canopy. No doubt Canopy is a quality carrier grade type system. BUT, to be fair There are other factors to consider.. 1) Syncing can be effective for spectrum reuse, and extremely useful. But, it can become less effective and sometimes can still be subject to self-interference as the nework grows, such as when the sub's distince away from towers varies drastically between sectors. The reason us that sectors can hear CPEs behinds it in some capacity, not just teh CPEs in front of it. For example, IF sector 1 has a sub at half mile, and Sector2 has sub at 10 miles. Sector2 may hear sector1's sub louder than it hears its own subscriber 10 miles away. For syncing to work optimally without self interference, all the Client's signal levels at the AP ideally should be received at similar signal strenth, so that the Front to back ratios of sector antennas is enough to isolate the two sectors. Whether that is possible may depend on the frequency range you use, and what antennas are available to easilly deploy. With Canopy C/I spec of 3db helps a lot, but the plastic case lets more noise reach the unit. We ran into this when comparingto Trango. trango only had about 7db C/I, but the thick metal case had muchbetter F?B than Canopy did, so it average out. 2) Canopies have signficantly shorter range because by default config (integrated antenna models) they use APs and SUs with lower DB antennas and wider beamwidths, so not able to operate at peak EIRP. Also note that gain by antenna has a double effect. Meaning for an AP, it increases the receives from CPEs as well as the transmits to CPEs. So a large penalty is taken if an AP has an lower DB antenna than competing products. Canopy has many different models now, and antenna design is not the same with them all, so I dont mean to stereotype the product line. In an Ubquiti AirMax solutions, they have optimally strong sector antenna options. And they have the flexibilty for a wide array of antenna choices for CPEs. That flexibility can be useful, and it is affordable to achieve. Saying that Ubiquiti wont be able to scale, and one day will need to be pulled out, is not necessarilly true. There are enhancements to beef up Ubiquiti. For example, some jsut made a nice steel antenna shield, that adds a huge amount of Front to back ratio teh the Ubiquiti antenna. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: j284...@yahoo.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Show me the day that a UBNT product can have 160+ clients connected to it with sub 10ms ping times to them all. I cant. Canopy wins that one, atleast in PtMP mode. (Tenant building is different story, where we have a few CPEs to AP, but a lot of customers behind each CPE). If a super cell site design is needed, thats where Canopy and Trango shine. The Trango is calls because the capacity sucks. I dont agree with that, considering Trango has more capacity (9mbps) than a non-advantage basic Canopy AP (7mb aggregate, but less each way when a fixed ratio in each direction is configured, required for syncing). Obviously, Advantage series Canopy has more capacity, if the shorter range that product requires is acceptable for the coverage footprint. 2. Range wise, we have Moto clients 18 miles out. MikroTik/UBNT, we had them at 22 miles out. Those are extremes for us, so I don't see how range is an issue...unless you are working with 15+ mile customers for the majority...again, most of us are not. Antenna wise, there are available products from LMG to max out the EIRP. Again, I dont question that canopy scales better or the possibilty to get 18 mile range. But that claim is a bit misleading. We need to recognize noise floor and rain factor are also factors, that restrict range to less than the theoretical or ideal case range. Maybe in 2.4G or 900M 18 mile is typical, but not in 5.8 or 5.3. Lets use a link budget calculator and do the math... Trango 5.8Ghz AP... tx 22, ant 14, CPE 22tx, ant 25.@ 12 miles = -72 rssi. leaves 10db of fade margin, since sensitivity is -82 or so. Canopy specs are pretty close to Trango, but not sure exactly what they are, so guessing here... For Canopy 5.8Ap lets assume all the same specs, except the AP antenna only has an 8dbi int antenna. The maths says -78 rssi, and only 4.5db fade margin. Lets see what happens when we try to get 10db of fade margin equivellent to Trango, meaning -72 rssi the results are 6 miles. Exactly 1/2 the range of the Trango, with same size customer premise antenna. But do you really want to use a dish at customer sites? Lets do the math for 18 miles, and the Canopy will yield -82 rssi. Does one really want to operate a link without any fade margin? The problem gets worse with Canopy 5.3, at low power, where antenna gain is absolutely needed to get distance. A 14bi at AP and 15 SU will just barely get 2 miles with 10db of fade. 8db Canopy AP with Behive on CPE (at legal power limits) gets you 1 mile with same fade margin at the AP side. 8dbi antenna is a handicap. (again math may not be exact, if canopy has better sensitivity than written). I recognize a Canopy AP could use an external antenna, to make up for it. But there is an extra cost for that. Or a Beehive to up the CPE gain, but again a cost for that. I also recognize we were originally talking about comparing Ubiquiti to Canopy, (not trango). But the same principles apply. Sure a Canopy DSSS system will have more range than an OFDM one requiring higher modulation and worse sensitivity. But more comparable Advantage series also has half the range of a regular Canopy to keep this conversation fair. But again, with Ubiquiti I can get an AP operating at full EIRP by default, and have options for non-dish CPE units of higher gain than 8dbi. If someone looks at Canopy, I highly recommend that they consider higher gain AP antenna options. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp 1. While I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, show me the day that a UBNT product can have 160+ clients connected to it with sub 10ms ping times to them all. One single AP, passing 7mb aggregate of traffic. I've had Trango, Canopy, and a huge pusher of MikroTik (same proto as UBNT). Canopy by far beats them in scale, there is no question about it. Most non-Canopy people don't want to hear it, but I started drinking the Moto Kool Aid about a year ago. My support calls of customers on Trango vs Canopy vs Mikro/UBNT is astounding. For every 50 service calls, about 8 of them are for Canopy customers, where the installer did not properly use the correct size antenna or alignment was off. The others are Mikro/UBNT problems from interference or other issues. The Trango is calls because the capacity sucks. 2. Range wise, we have Moto clients 18 miles out. MikroTik/UBNT, we had them at 22 miles out. Those are extremes for us, so I don't see how range is an issue...unless you are working with 15+ mile customers for the majority...again, most of us are not. Antenna wise, there are available products from LMG to max out the EIRP. Anyone can do those shields for any type of antenna...regardless of UBNT
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 18:12 -0400, Jerry Richardson wrote: Your Moto bias will cost you. Here we go againthis is not NECESSARILY true. Let's not start this whole thread again...ok? -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
