RE: [WISPA] Broadband Baloney? An FCC Commissioner'stakeonBroadband..

2007-07-26 Thread Doug Ratcliffe
But if you're running fiber anyways, isn't the labor cost per mile the same
with single fiber vs. say, 100 fibers in a single cable?  Virtually
limitless, I would think.  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:19 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Baloney? An FCC
Commissioner'stakeonBroadband..

Fiber is definitely higher capacity than coax; you would be stupid to do a
from-scratch coax buildout.  The two main difficulties with coax
infrastructure is
1. It's broadcast--meaning that's a shared capacity, and, technically
speaking, everything that goes to one subscriber goes to all subscribers
(kinda like wireless in a sense).
2. Slow return path.  It's hard to do a large capacity on the return path
simply because the equipment on the subscriber end usually is fairly low end
and has a lot more noise to start out with.  If you amp it up to get more
power (and capacity) you increase the noise way to quickly.

Not really too different from wireless in those ways, just has a lot more
theoretical capacity

Fiber doesn't have any of these problems (although a lot of FTTH
implementations are vaguely broadcast-style as well), and the massive speeds
we see out of fiber are only the beginning.  Still, for the time being,
cable MSOs are in good shape in terms of the actual physical cabling
technology and aren't facing the hard physical limits of copper pair like
the telcos.

-Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies

On 7/25/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Coax can do 50 gigabit?  Fiber can do a heck of a lot more than that.  A
 32
 channel DWDM system can currently do 320 gigs with 1280 gigs not far
 off.  I
 have heard of systems doing more than 32 channels.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message -
 From: Clint Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Baloney? An FCC Commissioner's
 takeonBroadband..


  -- Forwarded message --
  From: Clint Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:40:19 -0400
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Baloney? An FCC Commissioner's take
  onBroadband..
 
  I think you missed my point here.  My point is that forcing telcos to
   resell their network layer does absolutely nothing to connect
   additional people.  If I resell ATT DSL to someone on ATT's
 network,
   they could have just as easily gotten it from ATT.
  So you think that CLEC's and ISP's have never actually brought the
  Internet or a new service to anyone? That's striking. Yes the footprint
  does not grow, but certainly the penetration does.
 
  Back when the Internet was new, they were great for this because they
  generally had better customer relationships with the customers.  These
  days,
  Internet is commodity--in almost every case, if they didn't get it from
  the
  ISP or CLEC, they would get it from the cable company or telco.
 
  And without the revenue from the rented network, how would anyone build
  new facilities?
 
 
  Revenue from the services sold on the network through retail options, as
  has
  always been the case...
 
  Dynamic T1 and Integrated T1 were CLEC inventions.
 
  VoIP didn't come to the masses from the ILEC's and neither did DSL or
  dial-up.
 
 
  CLEC style VoIP is not really all that interesting--in the end, it is
 all
  to
  often POTS over IP and leaves out much of what is potentially
 interesting
  on
  VoIP.
 
  Definitely, without the CLEC competition, Internet access would have
  evolved
  in a much different manner.  However, I'm more arguing that the CLECs
 are
  more or less irrelevant today (from any sort of policy standpoint)--most
  of
  the market forces really do come down to telco/cable in the metro areas
  and
  wireless in rural markets.  The CLECs were the forerunners in a lot of
  areas--but, by and large, their era of innovation is long over.
 
 
   I'm not saying that these aren't decent business models, btw, and
   can't make people some dough.  But, national policy is not structured
   around making sure that an extra couple of CLECs or NSPs are cash
   positive...  running the same old tired copper to the same old
   customers does not increase broadband penetration.
  National policy! HA!  It's about Innovation and Competition.
 
 
  In which case, the CLECs only have themselves to blame  :)
 
  Would we have DSL today if not for Covad/Northpoint/Rhythms? DSL was
  invented in Bell Labs in 1965!
  RBOC's did not want to cannibalize their $1500 T1 revenue. (Then they
  went the exact opposite way).
 
 
  Agreed...but that was 1998-2002.  What have they done for us lately?
 
   Does it hurt the ILEC?  Heh...probably not all that much.  But, are
   CLECs really helping

Re: [WISPA] Broadband Baloney? An FCC Commissioner'stakeonBroadband..

2007-07-24 Thread Mike Hammett

So what BT is doing in the UK?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 5:03 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Broadband Baloney? An FCC 
Commissioner'stakeonBroadband..





Scottie, exactly what regulation would you recommend?

I think the FCC had it going going in the right direction with Computer
Inquires I, II, and III. Problem was, they never enforced these! The even
took out the office in early 2000 that investigated the companies that
broke the rules.

I am thinking out loud and not actually thinking this through, but here is
my idea. Do as they started with Computer Inquires...All ILEC's and Cable
Co's should not be allowed in the ISP business. They can start their own ISP
as a separate entity, but the parent ILEC/CC will have to sell to all ISP's,
including their own at a wholesale rate for use of their transport. There
should be no cross subsidization from one to the other. Of course I am
limiting this to the ILECs/CC that have received some kind of government
subsidization (whether it be grants, tax cuts,etc...) to build out their
networks for Cable TV and telephone. For us WISP's, give us all the tax
cuts, grants, etc...that they have gave the CC and telcos. Why should we not
get subsidization when they have and refuse anyone access to their networks?
Give me a couple of million dollars and I will have my county and the next
county covered with wireless within two years and providing access to some
people that have never had anything but dial-up and about 26k dial-up at
that.

I live in an area full of Cooperatives. Cooperatives do not have to follow
many of the Tele Act of 1996 rules (rural exemptions). I live in TN where, I
actually lost count, but there are approximately 20 +/- telephone
cooperatives. So I do not and have not got to do many of the things you guys
have got to do. Now that talk all this BS about bridging the digital divide,
but they still let these cooperatives get away with monopolies and not
having to follow half the rules that the rest of the US ILEC's have to
follow. As long as this goes on, rural America may see 20 Meg speeds by the
end of the next century. We never had ISDN here until around 2001 and DSL
around 2003 and of course it was done by the co-op telcos that were given
almost every penny to do it by the USDA.

Ah, I am through with my rant. I could complain and gripe all day. I spend a
lot of time on http://www.cybertelecom.org/ and teletruth.org that goes much
deeper into the points I stated above.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Clint Ricker
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 3:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Baloney? An FCC Commissioner's
takeonBroadband..


I'll duck after this post, but I by and large tend to agree with the basis
of the article.

Scottie, exactly what regulation would you recommend?

What has regulation solved in the past 11 years?  By and large, I've not
seen a single bit of FCC regulation that has had a net positive impact for
getting access to the consumer, especially post 2000 (it was probably a good
force behind making dialup Internet access widely available and affordable).


We had over 11 years of forced network unbundling for the ILECS (ie where
the ILECs are required to sell the bare copper at cost).  The idea, of
course, was to help service providers get on their feet while they were
building out their own network.  By and large, for a policy standpoint, it
did very little to actually increase network buildout.  Almost all of the
CLECs took the easy money of reselling the Bell networks and ran, making
agreegates of billions of dollars and not really building out any network to
speak of.  (Yes, there are some exceptions, but, this sums up the general
problem).

Forced wholesale access of the physical layer / network layer does
absolutely nothing to increase availability and, in fact, actually hurts
availabilty.  The ISP / CLEC that is basically reselling ILEC copper is not
connecting anyone who wouldn't / couldn't have been connected via the ILEC.
However, because the ILEC is less profitable due to forced reselling, then
they can't buildout as much infrastructure (theoretically).

The only real change in FCC policy in the past 11 years (fundamentally) is
that more people actually have to provide the services that they are
selling.  It's harder now to buy Bell DSL service, stick your own label on
it, and say that you're competing with Ma Bell.  All in all, I think that's
a good thing.

I understand that it isn't necessarily economically efficient to have
multiple sets of copper / coax going to the same house / office building,
and that telecommunication companies often constitute a natural monopoly of
sorts.  Forced selling of the network layer still doesn't get any