Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
Back when it was Cingular, I tried getting on a tower they own. They wanted $1600/mo and an engineering study done (usually $2500 or so). I just talked to the land owner, and he let me build a tower on equally high ground and I am spending WAY less than $1600/mo and I OWN the tower for co-locating. If you go with the tower management company, I bet you could get it quite a bit less. I DO know that another tower owner that rents to me at $1/ft on his towers, and according to SBA, they manage his tower. They wanted over $400/mo (almost $2/ft) next to a town about 400 people... The bottom line is that you might do some research before you make any decisions. You might find another deal you didn't know existed. Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
Two issues 1) People so quickly forget the scale involved. It is more hassle for these companies to do business with a small entity than the revenue they would receive. Think about it. A sales office with 5-6 agents to manage the sales for the towers they own. Then there are 5-10,000 towers managed. Then think about the hassle to make agreements with the other large volume propsect customers. The time involved in considering all the special exceptions written in on every other small customer's tower agreement? If they wanted to do a global agreement with Clear wire, that takes 1 agreement made with the legal council, it would mean they had to look at 5-10,000 agreements if each tower had a colocater that only had space on one tower, which would mean legal fees times 5-10,000. 2) The cell providers are now looking at possibilties to do add-on services in mobile broadband, and do they really want to lease to a competitor? The way to get space on these towers, is to take a different angle. What that angle is, well thats for you to discover. And that is what will seperate you from all the others that are not successful. For me it may have been Making friends or earning the respect of the Tower agent, The person that owns the property the tower sits on, the local zoning board, etc etc. In Montgomery County, its required that the tower companies rent to other competitors. They are required to rent to atleast three other entities to get their towers approved in the first place. Maybe with Wifi its to add a value to the community, so residence stop complaining about the ugly cell tower? Maybe its sellling your potential to grow to larger volume. Maybe its persistence and just not going away or giving up. Maybe, its an offer to make the cell company look good, to combat negatism that had developed due to their anti-competition tactics that they are known for. If you want to get on the tower, you can likely find away to get on it cost effectively. But the arguement is is it worth it? Is it worth taking risk by compromising contractual terms that protect you? Absolutely NOT! Never pay money for being on a tower, without provisions to protect your investment. Your loss if they try to screw you later would be far greater than what you pay them to be on the tower. One way is to start the process to build the tower yourself. Send them a copy of the tower permit. And say they can compete against you when you become a tower owner with free space to rent, or they can rent to you, and save their margins from other colocaters, if they agree to do it before you build. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Seconded.. WOW, they are obnoxious. I just spent 6 months working with an outsourced, outsourced, outsourced tower lease management company for Verizon. (yes, 3 TIMES removed from the company) to be told nope, you are too small, we are waiting for ClearWire to come spend money with us This was for a tower overlooking a highway and a town with around 400 people in it. I even offered to take second rights space on the tower to allow them to kick me off with 90 days notice and still no go. ryan On Jan 12, 2008, at 5:43 PM, JohnnyO wrote: you can't afford it JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless
Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
On a side note... I generally pay less to be on a cell tower than I do to pay to be on a commercial building roof top of equivellent height. Cell Towers- More expensive to climb and mainteain, there fore less valuable Cell Towers- Dont have office space tenants, there fore only valued for the value of the market around, not also the market within. Cell Towers- Cell tower prospects, negotiate lowest dollar possible, because of volume, and know exactly what it costs. Cell Towers- are taller allowing for more channel re-use through verticle speration. What Cell Towers care about the most is to do leases that do not restrict them from larger opportunities with larger prospects, and does not piss off their larger customers. If you can submit a plan, that shows renting to you is just extra income, without risk to their existing contracts and prospects, you might be able to get them to jump. The best way to do it is to argue the trutgh, which is that unlicensed spectrum is slop spectrum, the big boys don't want it, and it would never work for their business models. The community service value of supporting local companies is far greater than the risk of renting to you. What we are learning is Can we trust any tower leasor? Financially, will we be able to enforce a contract? Can we risk being help hostage by renting jsut one tower? Do we really need that tower that we thought was so valuable? Thos questions ahve to be answered. We believe the best answer is to not rely on just one. The best way to do that is to get the right price so you can afford to have more. If you don;t get the price, its usually not worth the risk. Send them a copy of the front page of one of your agreements with their competitors. It amazing how quickly they take you seriously when their pride relizes you are good enough for their competition. At minimum it sparks their interest, to at least take your phone call, and listen to your pitch to consider it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers you can't afford it JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
I think this is where WISPA really needs to come in. Why are we not negotiating contracts with the cell companies that benefit ALL WISPA members? Cell companies do it why can't we, as an association do it? just my $0.1 worth. ryan On Jan 13, 2008, at 11:57 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: On a side note... I generally pay less to be on a cell tower than I do to pay to be on a commercial building roof top of equivellent height. Cell Towers- More expensive to climb and mainteain, there fore less valuable Cell Towers- Dont have office space tenants, there fore only valued for the value of the market around, not also the market within. Cell Towers- Cell tower prospects, negotiate lowest dollar possible, because of volume, and know exactly what it costs. Cell Towers- are taller allowing for more channel re-use through verticle speration. What Cell Towers care about the most is to do leases that do not restrict them from larger opportunities with larger prospects, and does not piss off their larger customers. If you can submit a plan, that shows renting to you is just extra income, without risk to their existing contracts and prospects, you might be able to get them to jump. The best way to do it is to argue the trutgh, which is that unlicensed spectrum is slop spectrum, the big boys don't want it, and it would never work for their business models. The community service value of supporting local companies is far greater than the risk of renting to you. What we are learning is Can we trust any tower leasor? Financially, will we be able to enforce a contract? Can we risk being help hostage by renting jsut one tower? Do we really need that tower that we thought was so valuable? Thos questions ahve to be answered. We believe the best answer is to not rely on just one. The best way to do that is to get the right price so you can afford to have more. If you don;t get the price, its usually not worth the risk. Send them a copy of the front page of one of your agreements with their competitors. It amazing how quickly they take you seriously when their pride relizes you are good enough for their competition. At minimum it sparks their interest, to at least take your phone call, and listen to your pitch to consider it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers you can't afford it JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
I agree. A number of years back Part-15 attempted to negotiate this type effort with Crown Castle. I never really learned why the effort fell through. Its interesting now that Crown Castle, has bought out some of the other larger players, and has much less competition to justify the need to make special deals. However, dealing direct with Telco Owned towers, is a different game than negotiating with Managed towers that lease to telcos. It can be complicated because of the many different inconsistent ways a tower may be owned. Who's authorized for decissions on one tower in the portfolio may be different than another. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers I think this is where WISPA really needs to come in. Why are we not negotiating contracts with the cell companies that benefit ALL WISPA members? Cell companies do it why can't we, as an association do it? just my $0.1 worth. ryan On Jan 13, 2008, at 11:57 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: On a side note... I generally pay less to be on a cell tower than I do to pay to be on a commercial building roof top of equivellent height. Cell Towers- More expensive to climb and mainteain, there fore less valuable Cell Towers- Dont have office space tenants, there fore only valued for the value of the market around, not also the market within. Cell Towers- Cell tower prospects, negotiate lowest dollar possible, because of volume, and know exactly what it costs. Cell Towers- are taller allowing for more channel re-use through verticle speration. What Cell Towers care about the most is to do leases that do not restrict them from larger opportunities with larger prospects, and does not piss off their larger customers. If you can submit a plan, that shows renting to you is just extra income, without risk to their existing contracts and prospects, you might be able to get them to jump. The best way to do it is to argue the trutgh, which is that unlicensed spectrum is slop spectrum, the big boys don't want it, and it would never work for their business models. The community service value of supporting local companies is far greater than the risk of renting to you. What we are learning is Can we trust any tower leasor? Financially, will we be able to enforce a contract? Can we risk being help hostage by renting jsut one tower? Do we really need that tower that we thought was so valuable? Thos questions ahve to be answered. We believe the best answer is to not rely on just one. The best way to do that is to get the right price so you can afford to have more. If you don;t get the price, its usually not worth the risk. Send them a copy of the front page of one of your agreements with their competitors. It amazing how quickly they take you seriously when their pride relizes you are good enough for their competition. At minimum it sparks their interest, to at least take your phone call, and listen to your pitch to consider it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers you can't afford it JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
[WISPA] Cell Company Towers
Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
you can't afford it JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
I figured they would be worse than the management companies. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers you can't afford it JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
Seconded.. WOW, they are obnoxious. I just spent 6 months working with an outsourced, outsourced, outsourced tower lease management company for Verizon. (yes, 3 TIMES removed from the company) to be told nope, you are too small, we are waiting for ClearWire to come spend money with us This was for a tower overlooking a highway and a town with around 400 people in it. I even offered to take second rights space on the tower to allow them to kick me off with 90 days notice and still no go. ryan On Jan 12, 2008, at 5:43 PM, JohnnyO wrote: you can't afford it JohnnyO - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
In our area, Edge Wireless is a regional cell company (actually a subsidiary of ATT). They have 90 towers in my coverage area. We tried once to get on one of their towers. It was a 3 page application that had to be submitted along with a $3,000 application fee (that was NON refundable). Needless to say, we never submitted the application. Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers
Used to be, many of them, like US Cellular left the engineering decisions to their local techs to decide. Now, pretty much all of them require an analysis to go on their towers, last time I had a customer quoted it was 1600 for USCC. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Cell Company Towers Has anyone worked with a cell company for collocation on THEIR towers? IE: ATT, T-Mobile, US Cellular, etc. Not interested in hearing about American Tower, GTP, etc. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
