Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Ralph wrote: whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
If a radio had a design like listen before transmit for clear airspace and only transmit when the clock says I can then it could be used in any band including all of 3650. What would keep this out of all of 3650? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: The N-Streme protocol has been around for a while and supports polling and resolves many disadvantages in WIFI. N-Streme may not be able to work in 3.6 GHz as it may not be wifi enough. They could couple the GPS sync with the N-Streme at least for other bands. MT systems have the among (if not the best) performance out there for among the lowest pricing. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael J. Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike Hammett wrote: I know Mikrotik has been getting beat up over not having it. I guess I wasn't paying attention. Pretty much any reason they stated why they couldn't do it was refuted by seemingly knowledgeable people. As typical, when Mikrotik was proved incorrect, they acted like a bunch of 5 year olds. I have yet to see them do any such thing. It might be useful here to explain that Mikrotik is a vendor of router platforms. It is nice that they have these cool little boards which can accept, *among other things* cool little radios. That does not make them a wireless vendor. For example, we are only marginally interested in using MT at the edge or our network but we are very interested in replacing our existing NOC with a something almost completly MT based. So you see, it may well be that there is no real reason for MT to try to compete in the TDM arena. They don't build radios. They don't have their systems FCC certified but anyone who so chooses could probably make money doing that and then reselling their product. All of that said, do you know of a TDM radio card that comes in a format which can be installed in a MT router? For that matter do you know of a TDM radio which comes as any kind of card even PCI? There really is no point to GPS sync on a CSMA/CA based system such as 802.11x. So the question I have is what sort of system components would one combine with an MT to start doing GPS based TDM communications and the second part is when would I use GPS sync in I was not running a TDM system? Thanks -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
I just don't know enough about the innerworkings of N-Streme to know if it is WIFI enough to use the whole thing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. If a radio had a design like listen before transmit for clear airspace and only transmit when the clock says I can then it could be used in any band including all of 3650. What would keep this out of all of 3650? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: The N-Streme protocol has been around for a while and supports polling and resolves many disadvantages in WIFI. N-Streme may not be able to work in 3.6 GHz as it may not be wifi enough. They could couple the GPS sync with the N-Streme at least for other bands. MT systems have the among (if not the best) performance out there for among the lowest pricing. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael J. Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike Hammett wrote: I know Mikrotik has been getting beat up over not having it. I guess I wasn't paying attention. Pretty much any reason they stated why they couldn't do it was refuted by seemingly knowledgeable people. As typical, when Mikrotik was proved incorrect, they acted like a bunch of 5 year olds. I have yet to see them do any such thing. It might be useful here to explain that Mikrotik is a vendor of router platforms. It is nice that they have these cool little boards which can accept, *among other things* cool little radios. That does not make them a wireless vendor. For example, we are only marginally interested in using MT at the edge or our network but we are very interested in replacing our existing NOC with a something almost completly MT based. So you see, it may well be that there is no real reason for MT to try to compete in the TDM arena. They don't build radios. They don't have their systems FCC certified but anyone who so chooses could probably make money doing that and then reselling their product. All of that said, do you know of a TDM radio card that comes in a format which can be installed in a MT router? For that matter do you know of a TDM radio which comes as any kind of card even PCI? There really is no point to GPS sync on a CSMA/CA based system such as 802.11x. So the question I have is what sort of system components would one combine with an MT to start doing GPS based TDM communications and the second part is when would I use GPS sync in I was not running a TDM system? Thanks -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
What exactly does this translate to? 106 Id. Specifically, the Commission permitted systems using sectorized antennas to operate with an aggregate transmit output power transmitted simultaneously on all beams of up to 8 dB above the limit for an individual beam. Id. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
I know Mikrotik has been getting beat up over not having it. Pretty much any reason they stated why they couldn't do it was refuted by seemingly knowledgeable people. As typical, when Mikrotik was proved incorrect, they acted like a bunch of 5 year olds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
That is all about beamforming technologies (i.e. smart antennae). The odds are not good that you will see these technologies in this band, at least not at any cost that WISPs will want to buy. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 5:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. What exactly does this translate to? 106 Id. Specifically, the Commission permitted systems using sectorized antennas to operate with an aggregate transmit output power transmitted simultaneously on all beams of up to 8 dB above the limit for an individual beam. Id. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Actually, they have implemented a CSMA/CA bypass on their new 3.0 beta versions, using their NStreme Polling protocol. GPS Sync has been very high up on their list, however, the issue at the moment is that conventional serial GPS units lack the necessary timing precision for anything other than raw timesync. That said, I can't see why they couldn't sync based on ethernet broadcast packets (lets say, the master radio sends a signal to the slave radios to transmit). That would only work on a per-tower basis, but a master GPS sync could sync up on a lesser precision basis, more often, allowing all the towers to stay fairly in sync. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael J. Erskine Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 3:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. All of that said, do you know of a TDM radio card that comes in a format which can be installed in a MT router? For that matter do you know of a TDM radio which comes as any kind of card even PCI? There really is no point to GPS sync on a CSMA/CA based system such as 802.11x. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Doug Ratcliffe wrote: Actually, they have implemented a CSMA/CA bypass on their new 3.0 beta versions, using their NStreme Polling protocol. Cool. GPS Sync has been very high up on their list, however, the issue at the moment is that conventional serial GPS units lack the necessary timing precision for anything other than raw timesync. I can see where that would be the case 4800 baud is not going to be more accurate enough for a TDM system which is running fine slices. Fat time slices would work if you limited the number of systems you were willing to negotiate sync with. You wouldn't get too much waste using a less than optimal clock that way. What accuracy are they seeing on serial GPS systems? That said, I can't see why they couldn't sync based on ethernet broadcast packets (lets say, the master radio sends a signal to the slave radios to transmit). That would only work on a per-tower basis, but a master GPS sync could sync up on a lesser precision basis, more often, allowing all the towers to stay fairly in sync. If you only had one clocking unit in the network the network would not need GPS sync. The hardware clock on the clocking unit would be accurate enough. The clocking unit could broadcast sync to all associated units. This would probably require a star topology but it would work just fine, especially if you used GPS to tell each unit how far it was from the master clock so that it could account for RF propagation delay. -m- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
The N-Streme protocol has been around for a while and supports polling and resolves many disadvantages in WIFI. N-Streme may not be able to work in 3.6 GHz as it may not be wifi enough. They could couple the GPS sync with the N-Streme at least for other bands. MT systems have the among (if not the best) performance out there for among the lowest pricing. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael J. Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike Hammett wrote: I know Mikrotik has been getting beat up over not having it. I guess I wasn't paying attention. Pretty much any reason they stated why they couldn't do it was refuted by seemingly knowledgeable people. As typical, when Mikrotik was proved incorrect, they acted like a bunch of 5 year olds. I have yet to see them do any such thing. It might be useful here to explain that Mikrotik is a vendor of router platforms. It is nice that they have these cool little boards which can accept, *among other things* cool little radios. That does not make them a wireless vendor. For example, we are only marginally interested in using MT at the edge or our network but we are very interested in replacing our existing NOC with a something almost completly MT based. So you see, it may well be that there is no real reason for MT to try to compete in the TDM arena. They don't build radios. They don't have their systems FCC certified but anyone who so chooses could probably make money doing that and then reselling their product. All of that said, do you know of a TDM radio card that comes in a format which can be installed in a MT router? For that matter do you know of a TDM radio which comes as any kind of card even PCI? There really is no point to GPS sync on a CSMA/CA based system such as 802.11x. So the question I have is what sort of system components would one combine with an MT to start doing GPS based TDM communications and the second part is when would I use GPS sync in I was not running a TDM system? Thanks -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Mike Hammett wrote: The N-Streme protocol has been around for a while and supports polling and resolves many disadvantages in WIFI. N-Streme may not be able to work in 3.6 GHz as it may not be wifi enough. They could couple the GPS sync with the N-Streme at least for other bands. Thanks. I did not know what TDM stuff was out there. MT systems have the among (if not the best) performance out there for among the lowest pricing. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. I will be happy to see that. I am hoping that their CALEA stuff turns out as well as I expect it will. Ditto Imagestream and OpenCALEA. -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael J. Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike Hammett wrote: I know Mikrotik has been getting beat up over not having it. I guess I wasn't paying attention. Pretty much any reason they stated why they couldn't do it was refuted by seemingly knowledgeable people. As typical, when Mikrotik was proved incorrect, they acted like a bunch of 5 year olds. I have yet to see them do any such thing. It might be useful here to explain that Mikrotik is a vendor of router platforms. It is nice that they have these cool little boards which can accept, *among other things* cool little radios. That does not make them a wireless vendor. For example, we are only marginally interested in using MT at the edge or our network but we are very interested in replacing our existing NOC with a something almost completly MT based. So you see, it may well be that there is no real reason for MT to try to compete in the TDM arena. They don't build radios. They don't have their systems FCC certified but anyone who so chooses could probably make money doing that and then reselling their product. All of that said, do you know of a TDM radio card that comes in a format which can be installed in a MT router? For that matter do you know of a TDM radio which comes as any kind of card even PCI? There really is no point to GPS sync on a CSMA/CA based system such as 802.11x. So the question I have is what sort of system components would one combine with an MT to start doing GPS based TDM communications and the second part is when would I use GPS sync in I was not running a TDM system? Thanks -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
That isn't a reason to not use it. A GPS Engine costs about 12 bucks. Almost all have the PPS output. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Ratcliffe Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 3:01 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. GPS Sync has been very high up on their list, however, the issue at the moment is that conventional serial GPS units lack the necessary timing precision for anything other than raw timesync. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Ralph; Why bother? Tell us why they should bother doing that? It is one thing for you to bring a GPS unit to the device and quite another to ask the vendor to incorporate the GPS device on his board so please *justify* your comments. Explain, WHY, I want them to incorporate a GPS on their boards... Ralph wrote: That isn't a reason to not use it. A GPS Engine costs about 12 bucks. Almost all have the PPS output. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Ratcliffe Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 3:01 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. GPS Sync has been very high up on their list, however, the issue at the moment is that conventional serial GPS units lack the necessary timing precision for anything other than raw timesync. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Ralph; My bad, I thought I was still replying to Mike. -m- Ralph wrote: Why bother? Tell us why they should bother doing that? It is one thing for you to bring a GPS unit to the device and quite another to ask the vendor to incorporate the GPS device on his board so please *justify* your comments. Why bother? I have no idea. Doug just told us that GPS synch was high on their list, but that GPS with timing was too expensive. And I was replying to his comment. I have been involved with developing AVL systems that use embedded engines for over 10 years. The engines are now about 12 bucks. They have PPS signals. That should not be a show stopper especially if GPS is high on the list as you say. Heck- Motorola has a cheap Oncore GPS engine on the CMM Micro. Integrating a GPS engine is not rocket science if you are designing the board anyway- its just a TTL signal. If it is as high on the list as you say, then plugging an engine onto a control board should be nothing. It could piggyback right on some sort of routerboard type piece. Explain, WHY, I want them to incorporate a GPS on their boards... Well.. Uhhmmm... Maybe because I was replying to Doug Ratcliffe who said it was high on the list. It certainly isn't ME who is asking. Why should I justify it? If I want GPS I can use Motorola. At least they are legal. Now if I have misunderstood the message threading/quoting and it wasn't Doug who said that, then just change the reference to whoever it really was who said it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Erskine Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph; Why bother? Tell us why they should bother doing that? It is one thing for you to bring a GPS unit to the device and quite another to ask the vendor to incorporate the GPS device on his board so please *justify* your comments. Explain, WHY, I want them to incorporate a GPS on their boards... Ralph wrote: That isn't a reason to not use it. A GPS Engine costs about 12 bucks. Almost all have the PPS output. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Ratcliffe Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 3:01 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. GPS Sync has been very high up on their list, however, the issue at the moment is that conventional serial GPS units lack the necessary timing precision for anything other than raw timesync. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Yeah, they just use Atheros based cards and do their own magic on it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike Hammett wrote: The N-Streme protocol has been around for a while and supports polling and resolves many disadvantages in WIFI. N-Streme may not be able to work in 3.6 GHz as it may not be wifi enough. They could couple the GPS sync with the N-Streme at least for other bands. Thanks. I did not know what TDM stuff was out there. MT systems have the among (if not the best) performance out there for among the lowest pricing. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. I will be happy to see that. I am hoping that their CALEA stuff turns out as well as I expect it will. Ditto Imagestream and OpenCALEA. -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Michael J. Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Mike Hammett wrote: I know Mikrotik has been getting beat up over not having it. I guess I wasn't paying attention. Pretty much any reason they stated why they couldn't do it was refuted by seemingly knowledgeable people. As typical, when Mikrotik was proved incorrect, they acted like a bunch of 5 year olds. I have yet to see them do any such thing. It might be useful here to explain that Mikrotik is a vendor of router platforms. It is nice that they have these cool little boards which can accept, *among other things* cool little radios. That does not make them a wireless vendor. For example, we are only marginally interested in using MT at the edge or our network but we are very interested in replacing our existing NOC with a something almost completly MT based. So you see, it may well be that there is no real reason for MT to try to compete in the TDM arena. They don't build radios. They don't have their systems FCC certified but anyone who so chooses could probably make money doing that and then reselling their product. All of that said, do you know of a TDM radio card that comes in a format which can be installed in a MT router? For that matter do you know of a TDM radio which comes as any kind of card even PCI? There really is no point to GPS sync on a CSMA/CA based system such as 802.11x. So the question I have is what sort of system components would one combine with an MT to start doing GPS based TDM communications and the second part is when would I use GPS sync in I was not running a TDM system? Thanks -m- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Because there will be certified systems. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Ralph [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
IIRC, if everything is the same, you can label it as containing X, Y, Z and be compliant. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Mike, That is a big IF there. As I said before I don't see that every single hardware configuration deployed using Mikrotik will be covered. So to say that Mikrotik FCC System Certification will be a non issue is not a reasonable statement to make. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: IIRC, if everything is the same, you can label it as containing X, Y, Z and be compliant. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Nope. You need the permission of the grant holder before you can claim compliance and put their grantee code on your equipment. jack Mike Hammett wrote: IIRC, if everything is the same, you can label it as containing X, Y, Z and be compliant. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I have to agree that even if there is a certified system in the works this will not make ALL Mikrotik installations certified. There will most likely be some uncertified gear left in the field as I don't believe that some wireless providers will rip out there existing hardware to comply with system certification. I also don't think it will be a non issue anytime soon. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: I am aware that there was talk of that and maybe even a business in the works around it, but it is too early to say that in any certain time frame it will be a non-issue... Unless you are making an announcement (or someone is). And I highly doubt certification will be retroactive to whatever roo-tenna or tupperware box or whatever that people have been making systems out of prior to then. Don't get me wrong- I will be GLAD to see someone get MT certified. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Ralph, I think there is a committee gathering information on the most common hardware configurations to get something certified for Mikrotik. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ralph wrote: Why do you say this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Within a few months the whole MT certified system will be a non-issue. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Reminder: 2.4 is about 50mhz too, and even though it's pretty trashed most of us can still use it to some degree. Now think about 2.4 with 1% of the garbage transmissions. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 6:43 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Disagree about Moto having it right. Most systems use GPS sync -- it is not innovation on their end. It WOULD be nice to have some standard idea about how to interface sync with dissimilar systems. No downside but cost. Problem is though, in the case of 3650 you can sync all you want, but then the next guy comes in and you have to redo your plan, and then do it again, and again, and again. Everyone coming in has the power now to compel everyone else to come to the table, but the rules does not say what cooperation is actually required and what is enough. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
The downside was at the time when radios could not transmit the capacity the end users needed. Syncing does not allow the full capacity of a single half duplex radio to be used in what ever direction needed, which is possible in a non-synced half duplex system. In low bandwdith systems, such as 10 mbps generation PtMP systems. This was always the benefit of Trango, that allowed Trango to be used for higher ARPU systems than Canopy. Non-Sync was about geting maximum speed out of a SINGLE radio. This is key, because it let WISPs spend less money, to serve custoemrs with more capacity. Understanding that in the earlier days it was IMPOSSIBLE to predict what percentage of bandwidth you might need in each direction, at time of cell site design. Now as the industry changes, and grows, the noise floor grows with it, and applications that are used on our service also change. Things like VOIP start to require the FullDuplex mentality. And as noise grows, and our capiol and finace with it, we now have the abilty to convert to syncing systems, where avoidance of noise, and reuse of channels becomes a bigger advantage than the non-sync systems previously offered. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 2:21 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
John; John Scrivner wrote: I personally wish all manufacturers would standardize on a GPS sync system to allow for multiple reuse of frequencies. This is one place where Motorola definitely has the right idea. I have never seen a convincing argument for any reason why GPS sync is not a great thing for reuse of spectrum and I feel it should be encouraged by us to standards bodies who are designing the future generations of unlicensed radio platforms. Is there a downside to GPS sync? Scriv You have never seen a compelling argument because there is not one. Motorola definitely goes in the right direction here. Why? Because a good TDM system can be designed to use the entire band *and* share that entire band with any other operator in the area. Nobody does this at this time but lets do a what if... What if there was a band like 900 (902-928) and it could be modulated as WiFi modulates 2.4 and it was TDM like Moto. Total band capacity would be about 54 MBits/Sec maybe a bit more. Now if it was GPS based TDM the AP radios could negotiate time slots such that the larger ISP would get more band width than the smaller ISP, separate encryption keys would allow these two users of the band to share it without being able to violate each other's network integrity. Ooopppsss! A new operator enters the TDM network and guess what, he gets what he needs. The APs negotiate that. The problem is when the spectrum is truly full. A new guy takes from everyone. Such a system is easily within the existing expertise envelope. I am with you, TDM simply rocks for it's spectral efficiency. There are complications but those are engineering complications. I'll touch them because they are an interesting problem. First RF travels at the speed of light and when everyone is on the GPS clock and the same frequency they also need to know *where* everyone else is to efficiently allocate time slots so the APs on different networks have to communicate and negotiate bandwidth allocation. That would have to be done based upon need. The AP would have to discuss it's needed spectrum with other APs who are also using the same spectrum and there would have to be some consensus generated in the geographic space which would fairly allocate time slots. It can be done. It would be fair and it would work quite well. I would very much like to see something like this done in 700 MHz because the big players would absolutely *HATE* it for it's fairness to the small players. -m- Mike Hammett wrote: How difficult is it to engineer sectors with greater isolation? With only 50 MHz, we're going to have to become champions of spectrum reuse. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Principal WISPA Member List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Fw: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..
Getting closer to a 3650 reality! Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dan Lubar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FCC Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. Greetings everyone.. I wanted to make everyone aware of today's published response from the FCC regarding the reconsideration of its 3650 NPRM.. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-99A1.pdf Note that the petitions for reconsideration of this rule making have been denied and 3650 band usage in the United States is now one step closer. Respectfully, Dan Lubar RelayServices ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
