Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Fiber cut in SF area
Gino Villarini wrote: Someone should be using this example in a way to push wireless as a 2nd option for bup and redundancy If I remember right, they had redundant fiber there already. I also remember something about the person doing it knowing that and cutting both sides of the ring. Agreed, though -- secondary wireless connections would be a good backup in these sorts of situations, particularly when temperaments of union members have been high. I was actually in Cupertino when it happened (on Apple's campus), and I noticed a blip in my iPhone's data services at that time. I never knew what it was until I said something to my friend at Apple, and he had just heard the news. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Fiber cut in SF area
I was in Gilroy that day which was the longest and hardest hit area. Everything was cash only. However, seeing we backhaul everything wirelessly our customers still happily kept plugging along. Andrew MacLeod Network Operations Manager Etheric Networks 877.541.3905 Sent from my iPhone On Apr 11, 2009, at 17:28, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Two big towers would get above buildings, interference wouldn't be a problem if they could get even more spectrum to themselves. On 4/11/09, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I would imagine trying to do any kind of wireless, even licensed, could be very difficult in the LA / SF / SJ areas Travis Gino Villarini wrote: Someone should be using this example in a way to push wireless as a 2nd option for bup and redundancy Gino Sent from my Motorola Startac... Begin forwarded message: From: Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com Date: April 11, 2009 7:25:26 PM GMT-04:00 To: Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com Cc: na...@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area Anyone know how banks in the Bay Area did through this? I wonder how many banks went dark and whether they had any backup plans/ connectivity. Me thinks its doubtful. I also wonder if the bigger pharmacies such as Longs, Walgreens, Rite-Aid, Etc had thought about these kinds of issues? I personally doubt it. I bet you they went dark along with everyone else. Unfortunate. The funny thing is that the California lottery would be somewhat immuned to this kind of disaster as they actually use Hughes VSAT at every single retailer. Sorry for the random thoughts... -Mike On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote: On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Roger Marquis wrote: The real problem is route redundancy. This is what the original contract from DARPA to BBM, to create the Internet, was about! The net was created to enable communications bttn point A and point B in this exact scenario. Uh, not exactly. There was diversity in this case, but there was also N+1 breaks. Outside of a few counties in the Bay Area, the rest of the country's telecommunication system was unaffected. So in that sense the system worked as designed. Read the original DARPA papers, they were not about making sure grandma could still make a phone call. For a good man in the street perspective of how the outage effected things like a pharmacy's ability to fill subscriptions and a university computer's ability to boot check out a couple of shows broadcast on KUSP (Santa Cruz Public Radio) this morning: Why didn't the man in the street pharmacy have its own backup plans? Why didn't the pharmacy also have a COMCAST or RCN broadband connection for alternative Internet access besides ATT or Verizon, a Citizens Band radio channel 9 for alternative emergency communications besides 9-1-1, a satellite phone for alternative communications besides local cell phones, and a Hughes VSAT dish for yet even more diversity? Why was the pharmacy relying on a single provider? Or do it the old-fashion way before computers and telecommunications; keep a backup paper file of their records so they could continue to fill prescriptions? Why didn't the pharmacy have more self-diversity? Probably the usual reason, more diversity costs more. That may be the reason why hospitals have more diversity than neighborhood pharmacies; and emergency rooms have other ways to get medicine. Maintaining diversity and backups is probably also part of the reason why filling a prescription at a hospital is much more expensive than filling a prescription at your neighborhood pharmacy. Likewise, why didn't grandma have her own pharmacy backup plan. Don't wait until the last minute to refill a critical presciption, have backup copies of prescriptions with her doctor, have an account with an alternative pharmacist in case her primary pharmacist isn't reachable, etc. Readiness works better if everyone does their part, including grandma. Next time it won't be ATT, it will be Cox or Comcast or Qwest or Level 3 or Global Crossing or or or . It won't be vandalism, it will be an earthquake, backhoe, gas main explosion, operator error, Everything fails sometimes. What's your plan? http://www.ready.gov/ personal opinion only --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't
Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Fiber cut in SF area
www.covadwireless.com They service a large chunk of the SF Bay Area and some of the Los Angeles area. John -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [mailto:t...@ida.net] Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 05:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Fiber cut in SF area WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Fiber cut in SF area
Etheric also provides service to most of the Bay Area as well as Santa Cruz and parts of Monteray county as well. We were not impacted at all during this event. On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 8:56 PM, John J. Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com wrote: www.covadwireless.com They service a large chunk of the SF Bay Area and some of the Los Angeles area. John -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [mailto:t...@ida.net] Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 05:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Fiber cut in SF area WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Andrew MacLeod Network Operations Manager Etheric Networks 877-541-3905 amacl...@ethericnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Fwd: Fiber cut in SF area
Someone should be using this example in a way to push wireless as a 2nd option for bup and redundancy Gino Sent from my Motorola Startac... Begin forwarded message: From: Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com Date: April 11, 2009 7:25:26 PM GMT-04:00 To: Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com Cc: na...@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area Anyone know how banks in the Bay Area did through this? I wonder how many banks went dark and whether they had any backup plans/connectivity. Me thinks its doubtful. I also wonder if the bigger pharmacies such as Longs, Walgreens, Rite-Aid, Etc had thought about these kinds of issues? I personally doubt it. I bet you they went dark along with everyone else. Unfortunate. The funny thing is that the California lottery would be somewhat immuned to this kind of disaster as they actually use Hughes VSAT at every single retailer. Sorry for the random thoughts... -Mike On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote: On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Roger Marquis wrote: The real problem is route redundancy. This is what the original contract from DARPA to BBM, to create the Internet, was about! The net was created to enable communications bttn point A and point B in this exact scenario. Uh, not exactly. There was diversity in this case, but there was also N+1 breaks. Outside of a few counties in the Bay Area, the rest of the country's telecommunication system was unaffected. So in that sense the system worked as designed. Read the original DARPA papers, they were not about making sure grandma could still make a phone call. For a good man in the street perspective of how the outage effected things like a pharmacy's ability to fill subscriptions and a university computer's ability to boot check out a couple of shows broadcast on KUSP (Santa Cruz Public Radio) this morning: Why didn't the man in the street pharmacy have its own backup plans? Why didn't the pharmacy also have a COMCAST or RCN broadband connection for alternative Internet access besides ATT or Verizon, a Citizens Band radio channel 9 for alternative emergency communications besides 9-1-1, a satellite phone for alternative communications besides local cell phones, and a Hughes VSAT dish for yet even more diversity? Why was the pharmacy relying on a single provider? Or do it the old-fashion way before computers and telecommunications; keep a backup paper file of their records so they could continue to fill prescriptions? Why didn't the pharmacy have more self-diversity? Probably the usual reason, more diversity costs more. That may be the reason why hospitals have more diversity than neighborhood pharmacies; and emergency rooms have other ways to get medicine. Maintaining diversity and backups is probably also part of the reason why filling a prescription at a hospital is much more expensive than filling a prescription at your neighborhood pharmacy. Likewise, why didn't grandma have her own pharmacy backup plan. Don't wait until the last minute to refill a critical presciption, have backup copies of prescriptions with her doctor, have an account with an alternative pharmacist in case her primary pharmacist isn't reachable, etc. Readiness works better if everyone does their part, including grandma. Next time it won't be ATT, it will be Cox or Comcast or Qwest or Level 3 or Global Crossing or or or . It won't be vandalism, it will be an earthquake, backhoe, gas main explosion, operator error, Everything fails sometimes. What's your plan? http://www.ready.gov/ personal opinion only WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Fiber cut in SF area
I would imagine trying to do any kind of wireless, even licensed, could be very difficult in the LA / SF / SJ areas Travis Gino Villarini wrote: Someone should be using this example in a way to push wireless as a 2nd option for bup and redundancy Gino Sent from my Motorola Startac... Begin forwarded message: From: Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com Date: April 11, 2009 7:25:26 PM GMT-04:00 To: Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com Cc: na...@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area Anyone know how banks in the Bay Area did through this? I wonder how many banks went dark and whether they had any backup plans/connectivity. Me thinks its doubtful. I also wonder if the bigger pharmacies such as Longs, Walgreens, Rite-Aid, Etc had thought about these kinds of issues? I personally doubt it. I bet you they went dark along with everyone else. Unfortunate. The funny thing is that the California lottery would be somewhat immuned to this kind of disaster as they actually use Hughes VSAT at every single retailer. Sorry for the random thoughts... -Mike On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote: On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Roger Marquis wrote: The real problem is route redundancy. This is what the original contract from DARPA to BBM, to create the Internet, was about! "The net" was created to enable communications bttn point A and point B in this exact scenario. Uh, not exactly. There was diversity in this case, but there was also N+1 breaks. Outside of a few counties in the Bay Area, the rest of the country's telecommunication system was unaffected. So in that sense the system worked as designed. Read the original DARPA papers, they were not about making sure grandma could still make a phone call. For a good "man in the street" perspective of how the outage effected things like a pharmacy's ability to fill subscriptions and a university computer's ability to boot check out a couple of shows broadcast on KUSP (Santa Cruz Public Radio) this morning: Why didn't the "man in the street" pharmacy have its own backup plans? Why didn't the pharmacy also have a COMCAST or RCN broadband connection for alternative Internet access besides ATT or Verizon, a Citizens Band radio channel 9 for alternative emergency communications besides 9-1-1, a satellite phone for alternative communications besides local cell phones, and a Hughes VSAT dish for yet even more diversity? Why was the pharmacy relying on a single provider? Or do it the old-fashion way before computers and telecommunications; keep a backup paper file of their records so they could continue to fill prescriptions? Why didn't the pharmacy have more self-diversity? Probably the usual reason, more diversity costs more. That may be the reason why hospitals have more diversity than neighborhood pharmacies; and emergency rooms have other ways to get medicine. Maintaining diversity and backups is probably also part of the reason why filling a prescription at a hospital is much more expensive than filling a prescription at your neighborhood pharmacy. Likewise, why didn't grandma have her own pharmacy backup plan. Don't wait until the last minute to refill a critical presciption, have backup copies of prescriptions with her doctor, have an account with an alternative pharmacist in case her primary pharmacist isn't reachable, etc. Readiness works better if everyone does their part, including grandma. Next time it won't be ATT, it will be Cox or Comcast or Qwest or Level 3 or Global Crossing or or or . It won't be vandalism, it will be an earthquake, backhoe, gas main explosion, operator error, Everything fails sometimes. What's your plan? http://www.ready.gov/ personal opinion only WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Fiber cut in SF area
Two big towers would get above buildings, interference wouldn't be a problem if they could get even more spectrum to themselves. On 4/11/09, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I would imagine trying to do any kind of wireless, even licensed, could be very difficult in the LA / SF / SJ areas Travis Gino Villarini wrote: Someone should be using this example in a way to push wireless as a 2nd option for bup and redundancy Gino Sent from my Motorola Startac... Begin forwarded message: From: Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com Date: April 11, 2009 7:25:26 PM GMT-04:00 To: Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com Cc: na...@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area Anyone know how banks in the Bay Area did through this? I wonder how many banks went dark and whether they had any backup plans/connectivity. Me thinks its doubtful. I also wonder if the bigger pharmacies such as Longs, Walgreens, Rite-Aid, Etc had thought about these kinds of issues? I personally doubt it. I bet you they went dark along with everyone else. Unfortunate. The funny thing is that the California lottery would be somewhat immuned to this kind of disaster as they actually use Hughes VSAT at every single retailer. Sorry for the random thoughts... -Mike On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote: On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Roger Marquis wrote: The real problem is route redundancy. This is what the original contract from DARPA to BBM, to create the Internet, was about! The net was created to enable communications bttn point A and point B in this exact scenario. Uh, not exactly. There was diversity in this case, but there was also N+1 breaks. Outside of a few counties in the Bay Area, the rest of the country's telecommunication system was unaffected. So in that sense the system worked as designed. Read the original DARPA papers, they were not about making sure grandma could still make a phone call. For a good man in the street perspective of how the outage effected things like a pharmacy's ability to fill subscriptions and a university computer's ability to boot check out a couple of shows broadcast on KUSP (Santa Cruz Public Radio) this morning: Why didn't the man in the street pharmacy have its own backup plans? Why didn't the pharmacy also have a COMCAST or RCN broadband connection for alternative Internet access besides ATT or Verizon, a Citizens Band radio channel 9 for alternative emergency communications besides 9-1-1, a satellite phone for alternative communications besides local cell phones, and a Hughes VSAT dish for yet even more diversity? Why was the pharmacy relying on a single provider? Or do it the old-fashion way before computers and telecommunications; keep a backup paper file of their records so they could continue to fill prescriptions? Why didn't the pharmacy have more self-diversity? Probably the usual reason, more diversity costs more. That may be the reason why hospitals have more diversity than neighborhood pharmacies; and emergency rooms have other ways to get medicine. Maintaining diversity and backups is probably also part of the reason why filling a prescription at a hospital is much more expensive than filling a prescription at your neighborhood pharmacy. Likewise, why didn't grandma have her own pharmacy backup plan. Don't wait until the last minute to refill a critical presciption, have backup copies of prescriptions with her doctor, have an account with an alternative pharmacist in case her primary pharmacist isn't reachable, etc. Readiness works better if everyone does their part, including grandma. Next time it won't be ATT, it will be Cox or Comcast or Qwest or Level 3 or Global Crossing or or or . It won't be vandalism, it will be an earthquake, backhoe, gas main explosion, operator error, Everything fails sometimes. What's your plan? http://www.ready.gov/ personal opinion only WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
