Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
Blair, I can help you with any Gmail questions you have. Give me a call anytime. Shaun Hoggan s...@ikano.commailto:s...@ikano.com 801-415-8113 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform We really would like to find someone who could do the Google move and give us that .35 pricing as well On 3/29/2011 10:56 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.netmailto:fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.commailto:lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.commailto:mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr pni...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 [snip] iRedMail (www.iredmail.org) Built using standard opensource packages like Spamassassin, Amavisd, ClamAV, Roundcube, etc. Not heavily modified so you can easily update the system using your package manager (I use CentOS, thus yum) without borking anything. Full disclosure, I'm only using this on a couple of personal domains, nothing business oriented, for the past two years or so. But I don't see why you cannot run it with little issues. There are a bunch of case studies on their site discussing users switching from whatever mail system to iRedmail. My only negative opinion was the author's decision to stop supporting Squirrelmail. I prefer Squirrelmail over Roundcube (loads faster). But I can live. Josh WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. Thanks, Cameron Kilton Project Manager Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com c...@midcoast.com (207) 594-8277 x 108 On 3/29/2011 11:55 AM, Shaun Hoggan wrote: This is a great dialog on the pros and cons of hosting vs. outsourcing email. While the answer is not going to be the same for everyone, outsourcing our mail to Google has improved our customer experience many fold and has further entrenched our customers to us as their ISP. IKANO determined several years ago that we could not compete with the Google Gmail. The adage goes, “if you cannot beat them join them.” IKANO ended up moving our mail to Gmail and it has been one of the single best decisions we have made as a service provider. You can find out more about how IKANO is enabling service providers to move to Gmail here: http://partneredition.ikano.com/ Shaun Hoggan s...@ikano.com mailto:s...@ikano.com 801-415-8113 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Nash *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:57 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com mailto:lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com mailto:mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
What is your current cost for those 7400 email boxes? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. Thanks, Cameron Kilton Project Manager Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com c...@midcoast.com (207) 594-8277 x 108 On 3/29/2011 11:55 AM, Shaun Hoggan wrote: This is a great dialog on the pros and cons of hosting vs. outsourcing email. While the answer is not going to be the same for everyone, outsourcing our mail to Google has improved our customer experience many fold and has further entrenched our customers to us as their ISP. IKANO determined several years ago that we could not compete with the Google Gmail. The adage goes, “if you cannot beat them join them.” IKANO ended up moving our mail to Gmail and it has been one of the single best decisions we have made as a service provider. You can find out more about how IKANO is enabling service providers to move to Gmail here: http://partneredition.ikano.com/ Shaun Hoggan s...@ikano.com mailto:s...@ikano.com 801-415-8113 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Nash *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:57 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com mailto:lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
We have 4 cluster servers doing all the work and I'll say that are a (on a high side) $1,000 a piece for hardware. Probably about combined total of: 30 hours worth of config time for Spam and Virus protection. Sit back and relax. I like the idea of have google because of it's feature rich system, but that's a lot of money, I'd rather reinvest into more Wireless sites or into FTTx systems. Thanks, Cameron Kilton Project Manager Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com c...@midcoast.com (207) 594-8277 x 108 On 3/30/2011 2:00 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: What is your current cost for those 7400 email boxes? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com mailto:c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. Thanks, Cameron Kilton Project Manager Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com c...@midcoast.com mailto:c...@midcoast.com (207) 594-8277 x 108 On 3/29/2011 11:55 AM, Shaun Hoggan wrote: This is a great dialog on the pros and cons of hosting vs. outsourcing email. While the answer is not going to be the same for everyone, outsourcing our mail to Google has improved our customer experience many fold and has further entrenched our customers to us as their ISP. IKANO determined several years ago that we could not compete with the Google Gmail. The adage goes, “if you cannot beat them join them.” IKANO ended up moving our mail to Gmail and it has been one of the single best decisions we have made as a service provider. You can find out more about how IKANO is enabling service providers to move to Gmail here: http://partneredition.ikano.com/ Shaun Hoggan s...@ikano.com mailto:s...@ikano.com mailto:s...@ikano.com mailto:s...@ikano.com 801-415-8113 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Nash *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:57 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
Hey if you can do it for $4000 once there is no reason to spend $3000 a month. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have 4 cluster servers doing all the work and I'll say that are a (on a high side) $1,000 a piece for hardware. Probably about combined total of: 30 hours worth of config time for Spam and Virus protection. Sit back and relax. I like the idea of have google because of it's feature rich system, but that's a lot of money, I'd rather reinvest into more Wireless sites or into FTTx systems. Thanks, Cameron Kilton Project Manager Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com c...@midcoast.com (207) 594-8277 x 108 On 3/30/2011 2:00 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: What is your current cost for those 7400 email boxes? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com mailto:c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. Thanks, Cameron Kilton Project Manager Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com c...@midcoast.com mailto:c...@midcoast.com (207) 594-8277 x 108 On 3/29/2011 11:55 AM, Shaun Hoggan wrote: This is a great dialog on the pros and cons of hosting vs. outsourcing email. While the answer is not going to be the same for everyone, outsourcing our mail to Google has improved our customer experience many fold and has further entrenched our customers to us as their ISP. IKANO determined several years ago that we could not compete with the Google Gmail. The adage goes, “if you cannot beat them join them.” IKANO ended up moving our mail to Gmail and it has been one of the single best decisions we have made as a service provider. You can find out more about how IKANO is enabling service providers to move to Gmail here: http://partneredition.ikano.com/ Shaun Hoggan s...@ikano.com mailto:s...@ikano.com mailto:s...@ikano.com mailto:s...@ikano.com 801-415-8113 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Nash *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:57 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 12:47, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. That's large enough, that it's almost certainly more cost-effective to do it in-house. If I were inclined to make up bogus rules-of-thumb, I'd probably say that if you have fewer than 1000 mailboxes it's likely less expensive to outsource, and over 5000 you should be doing it in-house. There's a lot of grey area between those two number, though. If you do it in-house, there are hardware costs, software costs (even with open-source you should be donating to the projects that keep your business running), electricity, cooling, paying someone to keep an eye on all of the above and to fix it when it breaks... Many people overlook all these overhead expenses. When you outsource, they give you one number. In-house, you have to remember to add up all those little numbers, and not everyone does. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 02:00:54PM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. What is your current cost for those 7400 email boxes? If it's anything like around here, about 1/6th, or less, of the SysAdmin's time plus good hardware and power, which is a minor fraction of the SysAdmin's salary to cover the administration time. Which makes having it in-house a definite win. -- Scott LambertKC5MLE Unix SysAdmin lamb...@lambertfam.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
This is true and accounted for. I would love nothing more than say Google, here you go! and not have to manage the servers. Thanks, Cameron Kilton Project Manager Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com c...@midcoast.com (207) 594-8277 x 108 On 3/30/2011 2:14 PM, David E. Smith wrote: On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 12:47, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com mailto:c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. That's large enough, that it's almost certainly more cost-effective to do it in-house. If I were inclined to make up bogus rules-of-thumb, I'd probably say that if you have fewer than 1000 mailboxes it's likely less expensive to outsource, and over 5000 you should be doing it in-house. There's a lot of grey area between those two number, though. If you do it in-house, there are hardware costs, software costs (even with open-source you should be donating to the projects that keep your business running), electricity, cooling, paying someone to keep an eye on all of the above and to fix it when it breaks... Many people overlook all these overhead expenses. When you outsource, they give you one number. In-house, you have to remember to add up all those little numbers, and not everyone does. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
We just put in server, nice little super micro system, 5 disk array, SATA with about 6000 e-mails. I think it was around 4 k for everything, and it can do quite a bit more, not loaded up much at all. --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com/ - Author of Learn RouterOS http://routerosbook.com/ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: March 30, 2011 1:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 12:47, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. That's large enough, that it's almost certainly more cost-effective to do it in-house. If I were inclined to make up bogus rules-of-thumb, I'd probably say that if you have fewer than 1000 mailboxes it's likely less expensive to outsource, and over 5000 you should be doing it in-house. There's a lot of grey area between those two number, though. If you do it in-house, there are hardware costs, software costs (even with open-source you should be donating to the projects that keep your business running), electricity, cooling, paying someone to keep an eye on all of the above and to fix it when it breaks... Many people overlook all these overhead expenses. When you outsource, they give you one number. In-house, you have to remember to add up all those little numbers, and not everyone does. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
What are you using for mail software on this box? Hardware specs? We just put in a 6 core 16gb server, but the weak point now if slow disk. Thanks, Cameron Kilton Project Manager Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com c...@midcoast.com (207) 594-8277 x 108 On 3/30/2011 2:18 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote: We just put in server, nice little super micro system, 5 disk array, SATA with about 6000 e-mails. I think it was around 4 k for everything, and it can do quite a bit more, not loaded up much at all. *--- **_Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer_** **Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com/ - Author of Learn RouterOS http://routerosbook.com//* *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *David E. Smith *Sent:* March 30, 2011 1:15 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 12:47, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com mailto:c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. That's large enough, that it's almost certainly more cost-effective to do it in-house. If I were inclined to make up bogus rules-of-thumb, I'd probably say that if you have fewer than 1000 mailboxes it's likely less expensive to outsource, and over 5000 you should be doing it in-house. There's a lot of grey area between those two number, though. If you do it in-house, there are hardware costs, software costs (even with open-source you should be donating to the projects that keep your business running), electricity, cooling, paying someone to keep an eye on all of the above and to fix it when it breaks... Many people overlook all these overhead expenses. When you outsource, they give you one number. In-house, you have to remember to add up all those little numbers, and not everyone does. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
I think that there is a point where you look at taking this in-house. We made a policy that email accounts are purged after 90 days of not being logged into. We do have exceptions for those that request it, but for the most part people were getting email accounts, just to get them. Then they never used them. On average I purge about 50% of the accounts setup for inactivity. How many of those 7,400 accounts are active? I think we were at 4,000 and then down to 1300 after our first purge over a year ago. Regards, Chuck On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com wrote: What are you using for mail software on this box? Hardware specs? We just put in a 6 core 16gb server, but the weak point now if slow disk. Thanks, Cameron Kilton Project Manager Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com c...@midcoast.com (207) 594-8277 x 108 On 3/30/2011 2:18 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote: We just put in server, nice little super micro system, 5 disk array, SATA with about 6000 e-mails. I think it was around 4 k for everything, and it can do quite a bit more, not loaded up much at all. *--- **_Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer_** **Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com/ - Author of Learn RouterOS http://routerosbook.com//* *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *David E. Smith *Sent:* March 30, 2011 1:15 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 12:47, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com mailto:c...@midcoast.com wrote: We have over 7400 email boxes. At $0.35 each that is almost $2,600/month or $31,200/year. That is a large expense for email. That's large enough, that it's almost certainly more cost-effective to do it in-house. If I were inclined to make up bogus rules-of-thumb, I'd probably say that if you have fewer than 1000 mailboxes it's likely less expensive to outsource, and over 5000 you should be doing it in-house. There's a lot of grey area between those two number, though. If you do it in-house, there are hardware costs, software costs (even with open-source you should be donating to the projects that keep your business running), electricity, cooling, paying someone to keep an eye on all of the above and to fix it when it breaks... Many people overlook all these overhead expenses. When you outsource, they give you one number. In-house, you have to remember to add up all those little numbers, and not everyone does. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
The two that I would look at would be qmailtoaster.com or zimbra.com Anyone out there using Qmail Toaster? How does it work? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
On 3/29/2011 10:56 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands.
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
We really would like to find someone who could do the Google move and give us that .35 pricing as well On 3/29/2011 10:56 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
http://www.ikano.com/vendor/googleapps_vendor.asp Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: We really would like to find someone who could do the Google move and give us that .35 pricing as well On 3/29/2011 10:56 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.netwrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
I used to use qmail toaster. It worked great as long as you ran good spam software with it. I ran spamassassin and spamdyke. I hired Eric Shubes to set it up for me initially. If you look at any of the forums for qmail toaster, he is the guy who answers most of the questions. I can get you contact info if you need. It was a hassle when people's accounts were compromised and we ended up on RBL's, or when someone got a virus that did the same. I just didn't like the monthly (or more) maintenance for the spam filters and cleaning out inactive accounts. I'd certainly pay the $0.35/box now if I had it to do again. Cameron On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 10:17 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: http://www.ikano.com/vendor/googleapps_vendor.asp Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: We really would like to find someone who could do the Google move and give us that .35 pricing as well On 3/29/2011 10:56 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.netwrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
+1 for Chuck's write up. E-mail is a very essential service. People can deal with not being able to get to certain web-sites, etc. But, when e-mail goes down that's a big issue to them. I had to go through some soul searching on my first outsource to Google. Took me awhile to pull the trigger. Glad I did for that particular client. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but makes sense in a lot of cases. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:53:08 -0400 To: fai...@snappydsl.net, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
I agree with Chuck. Every problem I have with Gmail is always getting the customer to log in. It is very difficult for them to type their user name in the box that says user name and their password where it says password. Outside of that customer every few months, zero problems. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.netwrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
Another option is Atmail: http://www.atmail.com/store/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
At 3/29/2011 10:07 AM, Justin wrote: +1 for Chuck's write up. E-mail is a very essential service. People can deal with not being able to get to certain web-sites, etc. But, when e-mail goes down that's a big issue to them. I had to go through some soul searching on my first outsource to Google. Took me awhile to pull the trigger. Glad I did for that particular client. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but makes sense in a lot of cases. Let me put in one user's reason for NOT using Gmail. Google is in the advertising and data-mining business. Gmail is simply another ad medium for them. They treat mail as their data, read the customers' mail, and inject advertising based upon its content. This is not only creepy, it is dangerous, especially for users (like me) who exchange mail that is subject to confidentiality rules. Gmail is probably fine for kids and grannies who are exchanging personal message and idle chit-chat, but I don't trust it for business. Most ISP-run mail systems honor the privacy of the payload, outside of spam filtering. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
Hi Fred. While what you present is a Valid Reason not to use Google.. however there are other providers who will provide you with the same type of service (hosted... similar specs to Google) without them harvesting for example Tucows mail service. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 3/29/2011 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein wrote: At 3/29/2011 10:07 AM, Justin wrote: +1 for Chuck's write up. E-mail is a very essential service. People can deal with not being able to get to certain web-sites, etc. But, when e-mail goes down that's a big issue to them. I had to go through some soul searching on my first outsource to Google. Took me awhile to pull the trigger. Glad I did for that particular client. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but makes sense in a lot of cases. Let me put in one user's reason for NOT using Gmail. Google is in the advertising and data-mining business. Gmail is simply another ad medium for them. They treat mail as their data, read the customers' mail, and inject advertising based upon its content. This is not only creepy, it is dangerous, especially for users (like me) who exchange mail that is subject to confidentiality rules. Gmail is probably fine for kids and grannies who are exchanging personal message and idle chit-chat, but I don't trust it for business. Most ISP-run mail systems honor the privacy of the payload, outside of spam filtering. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
If you're worried about that, then you wouldn't be using Gmail. Would you use your ISP's email and expect confidentiality? For free? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote: At 3/29/2011 10:07 AM, Justin wrote: +1 for Chuck's write up. E-mail is a very essential service. People can deal with not being able to get to certain web-sites, etc. But, when e-mail goes down that's a big issue to them. I had to go through some soul searching on my first outsource to Google. Took me awhile to pull the trigger. Glad I did for that particular client. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but makes sense in a lot of cases. Let me put in one user's reason for NOT using Gmail. Google is in the advertising and data-mining business. Gmail is simply another ad medium for them. They treat mail as their data, read the customers' mail, and inject advertising based upon its content. This is not only creepy, it is dangerous, especially for users (like me) who exchange mail that is subject to confidentiality rules. Gmail is probably fine for kids and grannies who are exchanging personal message and idle chit-chat, but I don't trust it for business. Most ISP-run mail systems honor the privacy of the payload, outside of spam filtering. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com mailto:lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com mailto:mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
At 3/29/2011 10:50 AM, FaisalIwrote: Hi Fred. While what you present is a Valid Reason not to use Google.. however there are other providers who will provide you with the same type of service (hosted... similar specs to Google) without them harvesting for example Tucows mail service. I agree, and I don't oppose outsourcing email. I'm just pointing out that Google is not necessarily ideal. I actually have my own email forwarded to my ISP's server, but I own the domain and can point it anywhere. I just don't point it at my Gmail account, which is mainly reserved for receiving large attachments. On a more general level, the whole email protocol situation is a mess, and should all be redesigned from the ground up. (It's on my long-term road map.) After all, SMTP was basically created in 1972 by adding an append function to FTP, with the assumption that users would type directly into the distant port. Hence the dot on a line end-of-message convention and 7-bit coding. I even used that on TENEX for a time. So it's not surprising that it's more difficult to manage and unreliable than we'd like it to be. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 3/29/2011 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein wrote: At 3/29/2011 10:07 AM, Justin wrote: +1 for Chuck's write up. E-mail is a very essential service. People can deal with not being able to get to certain web-sites, etc. But, when e-mail goes down that's a big issue to them. I had to go through some soul searching on my first outsource to Google. Took me awhile to pull the trigger. Glad I did for that particular client. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but makes sense in a lot of cases. Let me put in one user's reason for NOT using Gmail. Google is in the advertising and data-mining business. Gmail is simply another ad medium for them. They treat mail as their data, read the customers' mail, and inject advertising based upon its content. This is not only creepy, it is dangerous, especially for users (like me) who exchange mail that is subject to confidentiality rules. Gmail is probably fine for kids and grannies who are exchanging personal message and idle chit-chat, but I don't trust it for business. Most ISP-run mail systems honor the privacy of the payload, outside of spam filtering. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
I think your thoughts purveyed are a little mis-guided. http://mail.google.com/mail/help/about_privacy.html Just a few specific items to list: No email content or other personally identifiable information is ever shared with advertisers. Google scans the text of Gmail messages in order to filter spam and detect viruses, just as all major webmail services do. Google also uses this scanning technology to deliver targeted text ads and other related information. This is completely automated and involves no humans. It is important to note that the ads generated by this matching process are dynamically generated each time a message is opened by the user--in other words, Google does not attach particular ads to individual messages or to users' accounts. In addition to the information listed above, you can turn advertisements on/off for your users, if you pay for it. We have it turned off. Regards, Chuck On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote: At 3/29/2011 10:07 AM, Justin wrote: +1 for Chuck's write up. E-mail is a very essential service. People can deal with not being able to get to certain web-sites, etc. But, when e-mail goes down that's a big issue to them. I had to go through some soul searching on my first outsource to Google. Took me awhile to pull the trigger. Glad I did for that particular client. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but makes sense in a lot of cases. Let me put in one user's reason for NOT using Gmail. Google is in the advertising and data-mining business. Gmail is simply another ad medium for them. They treat mail as their data, read the customers' mail, and inject advertising based upon its content. This is not only creepy, it is dangerous, especially for users (like me) who exchange mail that is subject to confidentiality rules. Gmail is probably fine for kids and grannies who are exchanging personal message and idle chit-chat, but I don't trust it for business. Most ISP-run mail systems honor the privacy of the payload, outside of spam filtering. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
At 3/29/2011 11:09 AM, ChuckH wrote: I think your thoughts purveyed are a little mis-guided. http://mail.google.com/mail/help/about_privacy.htmlhttp://mail.google.com/mail/help/about_privacy.html Just a few specific items to list: No email content or other personally identifiable information is ever shared with advertisers. Google scans the text of Gmail messages in order to filter spam and detect viruses, just as all major webmail services do. Google also uses this scanning technology to deliver targeted text ads and other related information. This is completely automated and involves no humans. You are more trusting than I. It is important to note that the ads generated by this matching process are dynamically generated each time a message is opened by the user--in other words, Google does not attach particular ads to individual messages or to users' accounts. If it does not match ads to messages, then it must be matching ads to subscribers, based upon the content of their past messages. Which means that they are storing information based upon the data-mining, probably even of deleted messages. They may not volunteer to share this with advertisers, but it can still be obtained under subpoena (which, as Sony has demonstrated recently, is really easy to get) and potentially via unautorized means (via either security breach or faithless employee). In addition to the information listed above, you can turn advertisements on/off for your users, if you pay for it. We have it turned off. But does that absolutely stop the scanning? Or just the webmail display? Regards, Chuck On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.comfgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 3/29/2011 10:07 AM, Justin wrote: +1 for Chuck's write up. E-mail is a very essential service. People can deal with not being able to get to certain web-sites, etc. But, when e-mail goes down that's a big issue to them. I had to go through some soul searching on my first outsource to Google. Took me awhile to pull the trigger. Glad I did for that particular client. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but makes sense in a lot of cases. Let me put in one user's reason for NOT using Gmail. Google is in the advertising and data-mining business. Gmail is simply another ad medium for them. They treat mail as their data, read the customers' mail, and inject advertising based upon its content. This is not only creepy, it is dangerous, especially for users (like me) who exchange mail that is subject to confidentiality rules. Gmail is probably fine for kids and grannies who are exchanging personal message and idle chit-chat, but I don't trust it for business. Most ISP-run mail systems honor the privacy of the payload, outside of spam filtering. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
I think the concern is that a decent exploit would unravel that web. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I think your thoughts purveyed are a little mis-guided. http://mail.google.com/mail/help/about_privacy.html Just a few specific items to list: No email content or other personally identifiable information is ever shared with advertisers. Google scans the text of Gmail messages in order to filter spam and detect viruses, just as all major webmail services do. Google also uses this scanning technology to deliver targeted text ads and other related information. This is completely automated and involves no humans. It is important to note that the ads generated by this matching process are dynamically generated each time a message is opened by the user--in other words, Google does not attach particular ads to individual messages or to users' accounts. In addition to the information listed above, you can turn advertisements on/off for your users, if you pay for it. We have it turned off. Regards, Chuck On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote: At 3/29/2011 10:07 AM, Justin wrote: +1 for Chuck's write up. E-mail is a very essential service. People can deal with not being able to get to certain web-sites, etc. But, when e-mail goes down that's a big issue to them. I had to go through some soul searching on my first outsource to Google. Took me awhile to pull the trigger. Glad I did for that particular client. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but makes sense in a lot of cases. Let me put in one user's reason for NOT using Gmail. Google is in the advertising and data-mining business. Gmail is simply another ad medium for them. They treat mail as their data, read the customers' mail, and inject advertising based upon its content. This is not only creepy, it is dangerous, especially for users (like me) who exchange mail that is subject to confidentiality rules. Gmail is probably fine for kids and grannies who are exchanging personal message and idle chit-chat, but I don't trust it for business. Most ISP-run mail systems honor the privacy of the payload, outside of spam filtering. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
This is a great dialog on the pros and cons of hosting vs. outsourcing email. While the answer is not going to be the same for everyone, outsourcing our mail to Google has improved our customer experience many fold and has further entrenched our customers to us as their ISP. IKANO determined several years ago that we could not compete with the Google Gmail. The adage goes, if you cannot beat them join them. IKANO ended up moving our mail to Gmail and it has been one of the single best decisions we have made as a service provider. You can find out more about how IKANO is enabling service providers to move to Gmail here: http://partneredition.ikano.com/ Shaun Hoggan s...@ikano.commailto:s...@ikano.com 801-415-8113 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform Would someone please tell me who to get in touch with for this $.35 per account price you're getting? I haven't been able to track anyone down about it. Thanks. Mark On 3/29/2011 6:53 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote: All I'm going to say about this is that Gmail made my email headaches go away. No more tracking down spam/antivirus issues, no more webmail issues, no more hardware issues with the servers (disks seemed to fail in an email server more often than a web server). No more people getting their password hacked and thousands of emails being sent out. No more IPs ending up in the SORBS/et. al databases. I tracked email maintenance time and materials for 6 months, and it was well worth the $.35 per email account we spent to let Google do it. It is so easy to tell someone to take their iPhone/Droid phone/et. al and select Google as their email provider and put in their login information. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.netmailto:fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.commailto:lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.commailto:mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
While you might say more trusting than you, I look at having Google as a partner to our business contractually bound to an agreement, just like I would with ATT/Cogent/Level3/Time Warner Telecom. Your upstream can do everything and MORE than Google can, yet you don't recognize that as an issue of faith either. Only because I previously owned a large advertising firm can I say that the matching algorithms are not as intrusive as you might think. Thinking that Advertisers will be able to sue and use a subpoena to obtain someone's email content is, well, ludicrous. We pay Google to scan our email for Virus/Spam...under your current terms and definitions one should not have that capability in fear of Google have access to your email. I don't see that as any different to what they do with advertisements. Regards, Chuck On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote: At 3/29/2011 11:09 AM, ChuckH wrote: I think your thoughts purveyed are a little mis-guided. http://mail.google.com/mail/help/about_privacy.html Just a few specific items to list: No email content or other personally identifiable information is ever shared with advertisers. Google scans the text of Gmail messages in order to filter spam and detect viruses, just as all major webmail services do. Google also uses this scanning technology to deliver targeted text ads and other related information. This is completely automated and involves no humans. You are more trusting than I. It is important to note that the ads generated by this matching process are dynamically generated each time a message is opened by the user--in other words, Google does not attach particular ads to individual messages or to users' accounts. If it does not match ads to messages, then it must be matching ads to subscribers, based upon the content of their past messages. Which means that they are storing information based upon the data-mining, probably even of deleted messages. They may not volunteer to share this with advertisers, but it can still be obtained under subpoena (which, as Sony has demonstrated recently, is really easy to get) and potentially via unautorized means (via either security breach or faithless employee). In addition to the information listed above, you can turn advertisements on/off for your users, if you pay for it. We have it turned off. But does that absolutely stop the scanning? Or just the webmail display? Regards, Chuck On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 3/29/2011 10:07 AM, Justin wrote: +1 for Chuck's write up. E-mail is a very essential service. People can deal with not being able to get to certain web-sites, etc. But, when e-mail goes down that's a big issue to them. I had to go through some soul searching on my first outsource to Google. Took me awhile to pull the trigger. Glad I did for that particular client. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but makes sense in a lot of cases. Let me put in one user's reason for NOT using Gmail. Google is in the advertising and data-mining business. Gmail is simply another ad medium for them. They treat mail as their data, read the customers' mail, and inject advertising based upon its content. This is not only creepy, it is dangerous, especially for users (like me) who exchange mail that is subject to confidentiality rules. Gmail is probably fine for kids and grannies who are exchanging personal message and idle chit-chat, but I don't trust it for business. Most ISP-run mail systems honor the privacy of the payload, outside of spam filtering. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 10:50:38AM -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: If you're worried about that, then you wouldn't be using Gmail. Would you use your ISP's email and expect confidentiality? For free? If you are worried about confidentiality, you use PGP, SMIME, or similar technologies. Anything less which is transported via SMTP is smoke and mirrors. I do expect an ISP to not care enough about what is in my e-mail to worry about them sniffing around. After you've gone through a few mailboxes troubleshooting problems for customers, you realize that you do not want to go browsing through them; ick; zzz. There may be admins sick enough to want to read that drek, but I suspect they are in a significantly small minority. They probably exist, so protect yourself and use encryption or keep it out of the computer in the first place. Google is an ad agency. I expect that their privacy policy says they don't share specific information about you with their clients. I suspect it also says that the privacy policy can change at any time without notice. I do not trust google to *not* have a tendency for ads to lean toward get a new pickup type messages while reading an e-mail from a friend about his new pickup. TANSTAFL. Disk and the power to spin them are not free. Targeted ads sell for a higher price. I have *no* knowledge of any sort of targeted ads being more likely to be related to the content of an e-mail message on any free e-mail hosting services. I simply don't trust human nature that far and assume privacy will be traded for more profit in the future if that trade has not already been made. I run my own personal mail server. I also run the mail servers at the ISP at $DAYJOB. I've been doing this stuff for 13 years. We didn't have much choice back then. I've looked at outsourcing. I've done away with outsourcing for the various ISPs we have absorbed. Everyone.net was advertising to our customers. The tech support calls about everyone.net's advertised upgrades were not good. We are happier with e-mail in-house. Newcomers may decide they need to focus their learning curve time on other technologies and not want to learn how to properly handle mail servers. I encourage them to outsource. The last thing the Internet needs is more poorly run mail servers. I currently like Cyrus-IMAPd and Postfix. Dovecot looks good too. I'm just not terribly motivated to try it out. We do have a Barracuda SVF 600. I do not have time to keep up with the spammers. I played that game for several years. I am not in love with the Barracuda but we are getting what we're paying for. It does the job. I don't trust Barracuda Networks either. I just don't see a gain for them in data mining my user's e-mail for anything more than making better filtering rules, so far. -- Scott LambertKC5MLE Unix SysAdmin lamb...@lambertfam.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
The two that I would look at would be qmailtoaster.com or zimbra.com They are both open source and run on Linux and both work really well without much headache. Thanks, _ /-\ ndrew On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr pni...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
We support and resell mailenable, for the price, can't beat it. :) --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Frank Crawford Sent: March 28, 2011 3:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. -Chris From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 4:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
I can't see why not. On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.comwrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. -Chris *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum *Sent:* Monday, March 28, 2011 4:24 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 17:04, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. You could work around that, if you're still willing to run servers on-site. Point off-site people to Google's MX, run a small SMTP server for your own customers. POP3, you could work around with something like Perdition. It's kinda a hack, but it should work in the short-term while you migrate users' settings. The pricing might not be that bad, depending on the size of your user base. If you're hosting your own email, you'll have to pay for some sort of email filtering (spam and virus), pay for electricity to keep the mail server running, pay for bandwidth for the 90% of your incoming email that ends up being discarded by the spam filters anyway. My network still hosts mail in-house, but it's getting closer and closer to the point that we can cost-effectively move it out. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
We are looking for an email solution to replace Everyone.Net. They are $.35 per user. Considering both in-house out-house. On 3/28/2011 3:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com mailto:lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com mailto:mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
I'm not advocating to prefer either inhouse or outsource, its a personal decission. But, it is important to understand that the cost to deliver Email services is not the primary variable to consider to make the decision to inhouse or outsource. The primary variable is who a WISP wants to let have access to their Clients. Email is the number one way to easilly address one's client base. Its worth far more than .35 per user, to keep my customer's eyeballs and ears. Just because I host inhouse Email does not mean I can keep my customer's eyeballs, GMail is tough competitions. But for me, its worth trying, considering I have the capabilty to have their ears with a live support person, and Google only has the option for Eyeballs since it is mostly web support. Not to mention, I already have a sunk pre-existing investment in Email server software and hardware. But I'm pretty certain it costs me more to host my own Email than it would to outsource. I dont do it to save money, that is for sure. The question to ask yourself is Do you want to be your customer's support person? There can be many benefits to being that, if a WISP takes advantage of that opportunity. I observe the bigger problem is that WISPs dont take advantage of the opportiunity for what ever reason. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform I can't see why not. On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. -Chris From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 4:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] OpenSource Email Server platform
You can slice it any way you like... all I can tell you is that ... when you have evaluate honestly how much time is spent by yourself or someone vs how much you have to pay for the service... for example. Paying someone $75/month to keep linux boxes uptodate and secure is a very inexpensive proposition. Paying someone $0.25 per mailbox for high quality spam / virus filtering services is a very inexpensive proposition.. paying $0.35 per mailbox which includes some ridiculous amount of storage and spam / anti virus is a heck of a deal... Unless you need somethings else that is not there... e.g. in our case, we use internal hosted machines that we have 'outsourced' security updates on to a third party... and we pay a different third party for excellent Spam/Virus filtering... our problem was very simple... we provide hosting packages along with email even though what Google and Tucows offer is a great deal.. but we needed options which they don't offer. Maybe next go around we may separate mail from hosting control panel... Your Mileage May Vary. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 3/28/2011 8:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly, out-sourcing just means you just pay for it indirectly, plus their profit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 3/28/2011 5:18 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: It all costs some way. You pay for administration, hardware, etc, whether you outsource or host it yourself. The time savings for me would be well worth $0.35 per user even in the thousands...may not be for others. Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com mailto:lm7...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have the ability to do multiple domains with the Google platform? We also offer hosting services that need email. To do the switch to Gmail I believe you must change all client SMTP and POP3 server settings. Yuk. Also, depending how many email accounts you have $0.35 can really add up especially when in the thousands. I would second qmailtoaster if you have to have your own server. Personally, I would never run my own server again. At $0.35/mailbox with google or other hosted platforms, the time and effort it takes to keep things updated and blocking spam effectively are much more costly. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com mailto:mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: http://www.mailenable.com/standard_edition.asp There is a free (as in beer) edition and versions with the requirements that you requested. Frank On 3/28/2011 12:53 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote: Since we began in '98 we've been using the same windows based email server MailMax. Because of some support/productivity issues we are investigating integrating a new box. The requirements are: webmail, web management of individuals mail accounts (with password reset), pop3/smtp/imap, can run on Windows or Linux. We would also like a calendar and address book module in webmail as well. Anyone have suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
