Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-20 Thread Butch Evans
On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 10:50 -0500, Jeff Ehman wrote:
 First, this is an area with people not used to high 
 speed internet so I think it would be very tough for 
 them to figure out how to connect to the access point.  

This is not something that many would have a difficult time with.  I
think that a bigger reality is that most of the people that would see it
would be either transient customers (not residents) OR they would
already have a broadband connection and be setting up laptops to connect
to their own AP/Router in their office/home.  

 Also, I would assume that not too many people out there have a 
 need for a laptop or travel around with one if they do.  

This is sort of the point I was making above.  Most people who are in
their home area would not be searching for a new connection with their
laptops.

 Third, it would be much easier to make a simple flyer and mail it 
 then trying to buy/configure/install a wireless hotspot.  ESPECIALLY 
 if you are looking at Mikrotik and have never used it before.

Setting up a Mikrotik Hotspot is something that can be done in less than
30 minutes in most cases.  This is not that hard to do.  The real
problem with the hotspot idea is that most hotspots (including Mikrotik)
will require internet access in order to function correctly.  

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-19 Thread Blake Bowers
And that looks good.  If you ever want to head over towards
Clifton we may be able to help ya out.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


 Gotta show this off...

 http://inxwireless.com/coverage

 Thanks Brian =)

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com 
 wrote:

 Yours had contact info, coverage maps, area served,
 you would be surprised how many don't have those
 things.

 I suspect they just feel that people should know


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message -
 From: J. Vogel jvo...@vogent.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:14 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


  LOL - I agree that a lot of WISP's don't make it clear who/where they
  are and what they offer via their web sites. My own site is far from
  perfect, but it has been a valuable asset in procuring business.
 
  Blake Bowers wrote:
  ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
  you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.
 
 
  Don't take your organs to heaven,
  heaven knows we need them down here!
  Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion
 
 
 
  http://www.frostytowers.com/
 
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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  --
 
  John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
  http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
  Vogel Enterprises LLC
  Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Cliff Olle
I would think that could easily be done with a mikrotik

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blake Bowers
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:05 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Promotion

I got towers.  Lots of them.  Many don't have any kind
of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
kind of high speed service of any kind.

I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says

If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
call 800-467-2346

Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough 
calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
there.

A market study if you will.

Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
such a thing?  
Don't take your organs to heaven, 
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. 





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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Josh Luthman
Mikrotik can do this.

As far as the gateway WirelessOrbit (we use PayPal) I know works and I know
Eje of WISP Router has software to do this to.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote:

 I got towers.  Lots of them.  Many don't have any kind
 of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
 kind of high speed service of any kind.

 I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
 period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
 that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says

 If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
 call 800-467-2346

 Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough
 calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
 areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
 there.

 A market study if you will.

 Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
 such a thing?
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Josh Luthman
I forgot that you didn't mention this - you can have the customers sign up
and pay via the gateway, too.  If the signal is strong enough they pick it
up, see that page, click a link to create an account and pay for services.

We do that kind of thing at business centers (used to do it at hotels, but
the ones we have wanted it free).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Cliff Olle w...@eccentrixtechnologies.com
 wrote:

 I would think that could easily be done with a mikrotik

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Blake Bowers
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:05 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Promotion

 I got towers.  Lots of them.  Many don't have any kind
 of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
 kind of high speed service of any kind.

 I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
 period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
 that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says

 If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
 call 800-467-2346

 Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough
 calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
 areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
 there.

 A market study if you will.

 Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
 such a thing?
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.




 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread John Scrivner
Why not go ahead and sell them the service over this? Just have it
take them to the signup page and process their credit card, add to
radius, activate service?
Scriv


On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote:
 I got towers.  Lots of them.  Many don't have any kind
 of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
 kind of high speed service of any kind.

 I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
 period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
 that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says

 If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
 call 800-467-2346

 Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough
 calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
 areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
 there.

 A market study if you will.

 Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
 such a thing?
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Dennis Burgess - LTI
Think he is saying that the tower does not have wireless service to it.  
He is looking to have a page that he can get calls on, then, when there 
is enough interest he will worry about getting net to it ;) 

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 
http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
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it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
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in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
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received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



John Scrivner wrote:
 Why not go ahead and sell them the service over this? Just have it
 take them to the signup page and process their credit card, add to
 radius, activate service?
 Scriv


 On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote:
   
 I got towers.  Lots of them.  Many don't have any kind
 of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
 kind of high speed service of any kind.

 I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
 period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
 that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says

 If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
 call 800-467-2346

 Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough
 calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
 areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
 there.

 A market study if you will.

 Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
 such a thing?
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
   



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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Blake Bowers
I really don't want the hassle of providing the internet
service - where to get the internet pipe, taking care of
the customers, etc.  Not my core business, and not one
I feel like I can provide well.

I was thinking that adjoining area WISP's would be
able to provide a pipe, either by their connections with
regional providers, microwave backhaul, etc, they could
take care of installs to expand their coverage area, etc.

I want an enviroment where both the WISP and US
can make some money.

Now, your a smart guy.  If a tower owner in a town
near your coverage area was able to bring to you a list
of people that would be likely to sign up for service IF
you had service available in that area, would you not look
really hard at that?

Me, I would be all over it like a fat kid on cake 


Don't take your organs to heaven, 
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. 

- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner j...@scrivner.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


Why not go ahead and sell them the service over this? Just have it
take them to the signup page and process their credit card, add to
radius, activate service?
Scriv


On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote:
 I got towers. Lots of them. Many don't have any kind
 of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
 kind of high speed service of any kind.

 I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
 period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
 that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says

 If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
 call 800-467-2346

 Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough
 calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
 areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
 there.

 A market study if you will.

 Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
 such a thing?
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread J. Vogel
My thought is that you are unlikely to get much of a response from
potential customers, although whatever response you did get would be a
strong incentive to any WISP in the area, and it is certainly doable,
Mikrotik could easily handle it. My reasoning is that all of my AP's
broadcast a domain name which I would think would be a strong clue to
anybody looking for service as to where to look for contact information,
but I get very few calls as a result of broadcasting that domain name.
Granted, having an informational page would be a better advertisement,
but I can't see it being that much better. I might try it on some of my
own APs.

Have you considered (or tried) contacting WISP's that  are in  proximity
to your towers? Do you have any towers close enough to me to do me any
good?

John Vogel

Blake Bowers wrote:
 I really don't want the hassle of providing the internet
 service - where to get the internet pipe, taking care of
 the customers, etc.  Not my core business, and not one
 I feel like I can provide well.

 I was thinking that adjoining area WISP's would be
 able to provide a pipe, either by their connections with
 regional providers, microwave backhaul, etc, they could
 take care of installs to expand their coverage area, etc.

 I want an enviroment where both the WISP and US
 can make some money.

 Now, your a smart guy.  If a tower owner in a town
 near your coverage area was able to bring to you a list
 of people that would be likely to sign up for service IF
 you had service available in that area, would you not look
 really hard at that?

 Me, I would be all over it like a fat kid on cake 


 Don't take your organs to heaven, 
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. 

 - Original Message - 
 From: John Scrivner j...@scrivner.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:15 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


 Why not go ahead and sell them the service over this? Just have it
 take them to the signup page and process their credit card, add to
 radius, activate service?
 Scriv


 On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote:
   
 I got towers. Lots of them. Many don't have any kind
 of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
 kind of high speed service of any kind.

 I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
 period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
 that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says

 If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
 call 800-467-2346

 Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough
 calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
 areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
 there.

 A market study if you will.

 Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
 such a thing?
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

   


-- 

John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Mike Hammett
http://www.frostytowers.com/


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: J. Vogel jvo...@vogent.com
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:43 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion

 My thought is that you are unlikely to get much of a response from
 potential customers, although whatever response you did get would be a
 strong incentive to any WISP in the area, and it is certainly doable,
 Mikrotik could easily handle it. My reasoning is that all of my AP's
 broadcast a domain name which I would think would be a strong clue to
 anybody looking for service as to where to look for contact information,
 but I get very few calls as a result of broadcasting that domain name.
 Granted, having an informational page would be a better advertisement,
 but I can't see it being that much better. I might try it on some of my
 own APs.

 Have you considered (or tried) contacting WISP's that  are in  proximity
 to your towers? Do you have any towers close enough to me to do me any
 good?

 John Vogel

 Blake Bowers wrote:
 I really don't want the hassle of providing the internet
 service - where to get the internet pipe, taking care of
 the customers, etc.  Not my core business, and not one
 I feel like I can provide well.

 I was thinking that adjoining area WISP's would be
 able to provide a pipe, either by their connections with
 regional providers, microwave backhaul, etc, they could
 take care of installs to expand their coverage area, etc.

 I want an enviroment where both the WISP and US
 can make some money.

 Now, your a smart guy.  If a tower owner in a town
 near your coverage area was able to bring to you a list
 of people that would be likely to sign up for service IF
 you had service available in that area, would you not look
 really hard at that?

 Me, I would be all over it like a fat kid on cake


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message - 
 From: John Scrivner j...@scrivner.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:15 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


 Why not go ahead and sell them the service over this? Just have it
 take them to the signup page and process their credit card, add to
 radius, activate service?
 Scriv


 On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com 
 wrote:

 I got towers. Lots of them. Many don't have any kind
 of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
 kind of high speed service of any kind.

 I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
 period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
 that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says

 If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
 call 800-467-2346

 Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough
 calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
 areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
 there.

 A market study if you will.

 Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
 such a thing?
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.





 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 -- 

 John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
 http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
 Vogel Enterprises LLC
 Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Blake Bowers
I realize that getting the potential user to actually pick up the
phone and make the call is an issue - perhaps some kind of hit
counter?

Your area, define close...  Closest we have is Crestline, but its
a monster tower, 2 miles away from the TV tower.  I have
been trying to buy a tower just outside of Iola for a couple of
years now, but can't get the owner to budge right now.

Contacting other WISPS close.  To be honest that has worked
with mixed reviews.  Many WISPS can't seem to put together a
web page that has a lot of information, lacking things like 
WHERE THE HECK THEY ARE, area code on the telephone
number or just giving out an 800 number, or having the only
contact information being tech support which may or may not 
be the decision maker.

I really don't understand why any wireless provider does not include
a coverage map on their page... But I digress.

I also don't want to be percieved as spam.  I get lots of spam, and
certainly don't want to be labeled it.

Thanks for the ideas though.


Don't take your organs to heaven, 
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. 

- Original Message - 
From: J. Vogel jvo...@vogent.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


 My thought is that you are unlikely to get much of a response from
 potential customers, although whatever response you did get would be a
 strong incentive to any WISP in the area, and it is certainly doable,
 Mikrotik could easily handle it. My reasoning is that all of my AP's
 broadcast a domain name which I would think would be a strong clue to
 anybody looking for service as to where to look for contact information,
 but I get very few calls as a result of broadcasting that domain name.
 Granted, having an informational page would be a better advertisement,
 but I can't see it being that much better. I might try it on some of my
 own APs.
 
 Have you considered (or tried) contacting WISP's that  are in  proximity
 to your towers? Do you have any towers close enough to me to do me any
 good?
 
 John Vogel
 




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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Blake Bowers
ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.


Don't take your organs to heaven, 
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. 

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


 http://www.frostytowers.com/
 
 
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 




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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread J. Vogel
LOL - I agree that a lot of WISP's don't make it clear who/where they
are and what they offer via their web sites. My own site is far from
perfect, but it has been a valuable asset in procuring business.

Blake Bowers wrote:
 ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
 you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.


 Don't take your organs to heaven, 
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. 

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


   
 http://www.frostytowers.com/


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com

 



 
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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Blake Bowers
Yours had contact info, coverage maps, area served,
you would be surprised how many don't have those
things.

I suspect they just feel that people should know


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: J. Vogel jvo...@vogent.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


 LOL - I agree that a lot of WISP's don't make it clear who/where they
 are and what they offer via their web sites. My own site is far from
 perfect, but it has been a valuable asset in procuring business.

 Blake Bowers wrote:
 ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
 you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion



 http://www.frostytowers.com/


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com





 
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 -- 

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 http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
 Vogel Enterprises LLC
 Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas



 
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Brian Rohrbacher




I'd bet more often that is comes down to who you DON'T want to know.

Brian

Blake Bowers wrote:

  Yours had contact info, coverage maps, area served,
you would be surprised how many don't have those
things.

I suspect they just feel that people should know


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "J. Vogel" jvo...@vogent.com
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


  
  
LOL - I agree that a lot of WISP's don't make it clear who/where they
are and what they offer via their web sites. My own site is far from
perfect, but it has been a valuable asset in procuring business.

Blake Bowers wrote:


  ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion



  
  
http://www.frostytowers.com/


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



  
  


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-- 

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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Josh Luthman
Gotta show this off...

http://inxwireless.com/coverage

Thanks Brian =)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote:

 Yours had contact info, coverage maps, area served,
 you would be surprised how many don't have those
 things.

 I suspect they just feel that people should know


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message -
 From: J. Vogel jvo...@vogent.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:14 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


  LOL - I agree that a lot of WISP's don't make it clear who/where they
  are and what they offer via their web sites. My own site is far from
  perfect, but it has been a valuable asset in procuring business.
 
  Blake Bowers wrote:
  ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
  you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.
 
 
  Don't take your organs to heaven,
  heaven knows we need them down here!
  Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion
 
 
 
  http://www.frostytowers.com/
 
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
  --
 
  John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
  http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
  Vogel Enterprises LLC
  Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread J. Vogel
Like I said, while far from perfect, my web site has been a valuable
asset. I don't do any advertising other than the web site and a couple
of small insignificant ads on community calendar type things -
(primarily as a donation to the non-profit groups sponsoring the
calendar). I get a number of calls from people who have found the web
site through a web search, and those people say things like I see that
I am in the shaded area on your map, letting me know that they have
found me through the web site. Which reminds me that I need to update
the map to show my current (expanded) service area...

Blake Bowers wrote:
 Yours had contact info, coverage maps, area served,
 you would be surprised how many don't have those
 things.

 I suspect they just feel that people should know


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message - 
 From: J. Vogel jvo...@vogent.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:14 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


   
 LOL - I agree that a lot of WISP's don't make it clear who/where they
 are and what they offer via their web sites. My own site is far from
 perfect, but it has been a valuable asset in procuring business.

 Blake Bowers wrote:
 
 ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
 you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion



   
 http://www.frostytowers.com/


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

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 -- 

 John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
 http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
 Vogel Enterprises LLC
 Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas



 
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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Jeff Ehman
I understand the idea but I would suggest just putting up yard signs or snail 
mail flyers.  I would say something along the lines High Speed Internet is 
Thinking of Your Area.  Call 800-467-2346 if you are interested.  Take 
information that way.  

There are some problems I see with the hotspot idea.  First, this is an area 
with people not used to high speed internet so I think it would be very tough 
for them to figure out how to connect to the access point.  Also, I would 
assume that not too many people out there have a need for a laptop or travel 
around with one if they do.  Third, it would be much easier to make a simple 
flyer and mail it then trying to buy/configure/install a wireless hotspot.  
ESPECIALLY if you are looking at Mikrotik and have never used it before.

-Jeff
CTI
There is a Difference


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Blake Bowers
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:05 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Promotion

I got towers.  Lots of them.  Many don't have any kind
of wireless service anywhere close, some don't have any
kind of high speed service of any kind.

I would like to put up on some of them, for a fairly short
period of time, something like a hotspot, say a cheap router
that people can connect to, they see a splash page that says

If you are intersted in HIGH SPEED WIRELESS service, please
call 800-467-2346

Then we could log the calls, take their information, and if enough 
calls were recieved we could start talking to WISPS in adjoining
areas to see if someone might be interested in providing service
there.

A market study if you will.

Who makes a cheap box that I could hook to an OMNI with
such a thing?  
Don't take your organs to heaven, 
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. 




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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread J. Vogel
To borrow an often used quote from Randy on another list...
I encourage all of my competitors to do this.

John

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
 I'd bet more often that is comes down to who you DON'T want to know.

 Brian


-- 

John Vogel - jvo...@vogent.net
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Mike Hammett
Anything I can do to help, Blake.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:08 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion

 ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
 you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


 http://www.frostytowers.com/


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com




 
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion

2009-04-16 Thread Mike Hammett
If someone wants to know for competitive reasons, they'll know.  Your customers 
won't go to those lengths, however.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




From: Brian Rohrbacher 
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:22 AM
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


I'd bet more often that is comes down to who you DON'T want to know.

Brian

Blake Bowers wrote: 
Yours had contact info, coverage maps, area served,
you would be surprised how many don't have those
things.

I suspect they just feel that people should know


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: J. Vogel jvo...@vogent.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion


  LOL - I agree that a lot of WISP's don't make it clear who/where they
are and what they offer via their web sites. My own site is far from
perfect, but it has been a valuable asset in procuring business.

Blake Bowers wrote:
ROFL... I take WISPS to task for their web page, and
you bring mine up... I am so ashamed.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion



  http://www.frostytowers.com/


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas




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Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: [WISPA Promotion] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [WISPA Members] THE GENESIS OF UNLICENSED WIRELESS POLICY - An Information Economy Project Conference]]]

2008-04-08 Thread Tom DeReggi
Anything specific interesting learned?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Martha Huizenga [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: [WISPA Promotion] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [WISPA Members] THE 
GENESIS OF UNLICENSED WIRELESS POLICY - An Information Economy Project 
Conference]]]


 Sorry sent this to the promotions committeeoops!

 Just wanted everyone to know that Matt and I went to this conference on
 Friday that was put out by Jack Unger a couple of weeks ago. It was very
 interesting, a bit more academic than the usual conference, but well
 worth it.

 We met Tim Pozar from the Bay Area Wireless User Group and heard a host
 of others speak on unlicensed wireless. Their topics were actually
 papers they had each written. You can see them here: 
 http://www.iep.gmu.edu/

 Happy reading!


 Thanks to Jack Unger for sending.

 Martha

  Original Message 
 Subject: [WISPA Members] THE GENESIS OF UNLICENSED WIRELESS POLICY -
 An Information Economy Project Conference
 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:21:15 -0700
 From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 Unlicensed wireless has become an industry, with hundreds of millions of
 radios in use today.  These devices range from short-range wireless
 computer keyboards to microwave links with ranges of several miles.
  Among the most well known are wireless local area networks (WLANs)
 often referred to as Wi-Fi or 802.11.

 This conference will review the development of unlicensed wireless
 policy with the goal of assisting How Wi-Fi Got Its Regulatory
 Goovescholars in understanding how the current unlicensed policies came
 into being.  It looks at the interplay between regulation and innovation
 and examines policy initiatives from industry and from inside the
 government.  It also reviews technological and market responses to
 changes in regulation.

 The speakers include several individuals who were deeply involved with
 the development of unlicensed policy and of standards and devices that
 operated under that policy.

 This conference should prove informative to people interested in either
 spectrum policy generally or unlicensed wireless in particular.  It may
 also interest students of regulation, innovation, or, more widely, law
 and economics


 http://www.iep.gmu.edu/UnlicensedWireless.php


 -- 
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
 Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Design-Troubleshooting-Consulting
 FCC License # PG-12-25133
 Phone 818-227-4220   Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 ___

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 ---



 -- 
 http://www.dcaccess.net






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Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: [WISPA Promotion] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [WISPA Members] THE GENESIS OF UNLICENSED WIRELESS POLICY - An Information Economy Project Conference]]]

2008-04-08 Thread Martha Huizenga
The focus was on the history and I wasn't aware of some of the history 
that was behind wireless. It wasn't truly technical, however, since I am 
on the non-technical end of things here, I learned a little of the 
technical. I also found the Bay Area project to be quite interesting in 
what they have done and how they got there.

Martha

Tom DeReggi wrote:
 Anything specific interesting learned?

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: Martha Huizenga [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:00 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: [WISPA Promotion] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [WISPA Members] THE 
 GENESIS OF UNLICENSED WIRELESS POLICY - An Information Economy Project 
 Conference]]]


   
 Sorry sent this to the promotions committeeoops!

 Just wanted everyone to know that Matt and I went to this conference on
 Friday that was put out by Jack Unger a couple of weeks ago. It was very
 interesting, a bit more academic than the usual conference, but well
 worth it.

 We met Tim Pozar from the Bay Area Wireless User Group and heard a host
 of others speak on unlicensed wireless. Their topics were actually
 papers they had each written. You can see them here: 
 http://www.iep.gmu.edu/

 Happy reading!


 Thanks to Jack Unger for sending.

 Martha
 
  Original Message 
 Subject: [WISPA Members] THE GENESIS OF UNLICENSED WIRELESS POLICY -
 An Information Economy Project Conference
 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:21:15 -0700
 From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 Unlicensed wireless has become an industry, with hundreds of millions of
 radios in use today.  These devices range from short-range wireless
 computer keyboards to microwave links with ranges of several miles.
  Among the most well known are wireless local area networks (WLANs)
 often referred to as Wi-Fi or 802.11.

 This conference will review the development of unlicensed wireless
 policy with the goal of assisting How Wi-Fi Got Its Regulatory
 Goovescholars in understanding how the current unlicensed policies came
 into being.  It looks at the interplay between regulation and innovation
 and examines policy initiatives from industry and from inside the
 government.  It also reviews technological and market responses to
 changes in regulation.

 The speakers include several individuals who were deeply involved with
 the development of unlicensed policy and of standards and devices that
 operated under that policy.

 This conference should prove informative to people interested in either
 spectrum policy generally or unlicensed wireless in particular.  It may
 also interest students of regulation, innovation, or, more widely, law
 and economics


 http://www.iep.gmu.edu/UnlicensedWireless.php


 -- 
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
 Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
 Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Design-Troubleshooting-Consulting
 FCC License # PG-12-25133
 Phone 818-227-4220   Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 ___

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[WISPA] [Fwd: [WISPA Promotion] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [WISPA Members] THE GENESIS OF UNLICENSED WIRELESS POLICY - An Information Economy Project Conference]]]

2008-04-07 Thread Martha Huizenga

Sorry sent this to the promotions committeeoops!

Just wanted everyone to know that Matt and I went to this conference on 
Friday that was put out by Jack Unger a couple of weeks ago. It was very 
interesting, a bit more academic than the usual conference, but well 
worth it.


We met Tim Pozar from the Bay Area Wireless User Group and heard a host 
of others speak on unlicensed wireless. Their topics were actually 
papers they had each written. You can see them here: http://www.iep.gmu.edu/


Happy reading!


Thanks to Jack Unger for sending.

Martha


 Original Message 
Subject: 	[WISPA Members] THE GENESIS OF UNLICENSED WIRELESS POLICY - 
An Information Economy Project Conference

Date:   Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:21:15 -0700
From:   Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Unlicensed wireless has become an industry, with hundreds of millions of 
radios in use today.  These devices range from short-range wireless 
computer keyboards to microwave links with ranges of several miles. 
 Among the most well known are wireless local area networks (WLANs) 
often referred to as Wi-Fi or 802.11. 

This conference will review the development of unlicensed wireless 
policy with the goal of assisting How Wi-Fi Got Its Regulatory 
Goovescholars in understanding how the current unlicensed policies came 
into being.  It looks at the interplay between regulation and innovation 
and examines policy initiatives from industry and from inside the 
government.  It also reviews technological and market responses to 
changes in regulation. 

The speakers include several individuals who were deeply involved with 
the development of unlicensed policy and of standards and devices that 
operated under that policy. 

This conference should prove informative to people interested in either 
spectrum policy generally or unlicensed wireless in particular.  It may 
also interest students of regulation, innovation, or, more widely, law 
and economics



http://www.iep.gmu.edu/UnlicensedWireless.php


--
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the Cisco Press Book - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Design-Troubleshooting-Consulting
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Phone 818-227-4220   Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]



___

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[WISPA] Re: [WISPA Promotion] 2007 Internet Service Provider (ISP) Residential Satisfaction Study | J.D. Power and Associates

2007-09-21 Thread Martha Huizenga
What if we contact the Media Relations persons and ask about the study 
and if WISPs were included. We could educate them on our services etc 
and make sure we are included next time?


George Rogato wrote:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007210 




We need to promote us wisps, I'm sure they didn't compare any of us in 
their study.


Is this something wispa can do?

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** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


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Re: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA Promotion] 2007 Internet Service Provider (ISP) Residential Satisfaction Study | J.D. Power and Associates

2007-09-21 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
LOL, looks to me like they are only interested in talking about the bigger 
providers.  Not a single regional player let alone local ones.


I agree with you Martha.  This report is likely way off the mark due to the 
lack of smaller provider's and their typically superior service levels.


I think our promotions committee should take this on.

laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Martha Huizenga [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA Promotion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 5:30 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA Promotion] 2007 Internet Service Provider (ISP) 
Residential Satisfaction Study | J.D. Power and Associates



What if we contact the Media Relations persons and ask about the study and 
if WISPs were included. We could educate them on our services etc and make 
sure we are included next time?


George Rogato wrote:

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007210


We need to promote us wisps, I'm sure they didn't compare any of us in 
their study.


Is this something wispa can do?

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** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at 
ISPCON **

** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


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** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON 
**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA   www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at 
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **


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[WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Zack Kneisley

Mike does have a point here, I am a subscriber of the list, and I have
pondered this as well, I have seen direct promotion and links in plenty of
signatures, I don't think the link to their site is bad, you can determine
the site of most posters by their address, some you can't because they use a
gmail address like mine to keep my own desktop free of the amount of mail
that passes through this list daily, plus I like the by-thread organization
it presents.

I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a signature of
this particular list should be allowed unless you pay for it.
I do however think that a link to the mailers website would not offend the
paying vendors, just not direct marketing of their products in their
signature or in their posts. This would allow a list subscriber to contact
another subscriber of the list without having to mail them back to their
*maybe* list only address.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm not a paying vendor either, I just think that that makes sense.

Zack


On 5/17/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Wow, tough crowd.  Do I have to remove my company's name and link from my
sig?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email


 That was not the point and now you changed your signature to promote
your
 products, nice. The point is that you are promoting your services,
nothing
 wrong about it really, but pay for it. If you do not see any value in
 paying for the privilege to participate as a vendor sponsor of WISPA,
then
 stop acting like one.

 Talking about products, pro-cons, best use, warranties etc., is all well
 and good. But to directly solicit business on this WISPA list-srv with a
 competitive product, is not an acceptable practice in my opinion.

 Apology not accepted.



 Frank Muto
 President
 FSM Marketing Group, Inc
 Postini Partner Reseller
 www.SecureEmailPlus.com

 ISPCON Spring 2007
 May 23-25 in Orlando, FL.
 LaunchPad Pavilion J









 - Original Message -
 From: W.D.McKinney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 9:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email


 Hi Frank,

 I was not saying anything for or against you, Postini or Barracuda.
 If you you took offense at my statements, my apologies.

 Cheers,
 -Dee


 Alaska Wireless Systems
 1(907)240-2183 Cell
 1(907)349-2226 Fax
 1(907)349-4308 Office
 www.akwireless.net
 Barracuda Networks Diamond Reseller
 Imagestream Router  WAN Cards
 Force10 Networks Reseller


 - Original Message -
 From: Frank Muto
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:55:33 -0800
 Subject:
 Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email


 As a PAYING supporting vendor of WISPA and co-sponsor for ISPCON, I
take
 offense to this direct marketing of a competitive service. Last I
looked
 on
 the WISPA website, neither Barracuda or Alaska Wireless Systems had a
 logo
 displayed, unless you are a paid associate vendor.


 Frank Muto
 President
 FSM Marketing Group, Inc
 Postini Partner Reseller
 www.SecureEmailPlus.com

 ISPCON Spring 2007
 May 23-25 in Orlando, FL.
 LaunchPad Pavilion J






 - Original Message -
 From: W.D.McKinney [EMAIL PROTECTED]


  Hi Folks,
 
  As a Diamond Reseller for Barracuda Networks, we take the pain out
of
  dealing with issues the best we can for our customers. The issue of
  selling a used Barracuda is like a lot of hardware vendors. It
varies
  on
  which entity you are dealing with as to the answer you will get.
 
  We move customers off Postini regularly due to issues they have
them,
  so
  it depends what side of the coin you are looking at. (Only the
  experienced

  walk with a limp)
 
  We also take the pain of ownership out for folks and filter e-mail
for
  WISP's as they frequently need a lower cost solution.
 
  Cheers,
  -Dee
 
  Alaska Wireless Systems
  1(907)240-2183 Cell
  1(907)349-2226 Fax
  1(907)349-4308 Office
  www.akwireless.net
 

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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread David E. Smith
Zack Kneisley wrote:

 I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a signature of
 this particular list should be allowed unless you pay for it.

That gets into the incredibly fuzzy question of what counts as
promotion, though.

Let's take the email thread, as an example.

If I'm the owner of SuperDeluxeEmail and post you should use my company
because it's the best, that's probably self-promotion.

What if I say you should use my company because I'm a WISPA member? Is
that promotion, or an advertisement of the sort WISPA has been known to
offer to paying vendor members?

What if I don't disclose that I own SuperDeluxeEmail?

What if I'm using a sock puppet to tell people how awesome
SuperDeluxeEmail is?

What if, instead of being the owner of the company, I'm just a minority
investor? Or merely a very satisfied customer?

What if I think it's a lousy company and I want you to use their service
so you'll think it's lousy and join me in publicly bad-mouthing them?

There's a lot of subtle levels here.

Honestly, IMO a lot of the value of this list comes from the fact that a
lot of different vendors are directly, or indirectly, represented here.
A little self-promotion is probably inevitable, and probably healthy.
(If you can't promote yourself and your business at least a little bit,
you won't be in business for very long.)

Giving WISPA money doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that everyone
walks on eggshells around your booth in the ongoing trade show that is
this mailing list, and doesn't mean that we'll overlook any problems or
shortcomings in your product. Conversely, if you make a good product, we
won't ignore it out-of-hand because you haven't yet tithed. (We'll
probably encourage you to do so, but...)

If we're going to start treating some folks differently based solely
upon whether they're paying members of WISPA, this list loses a lot of
its value.

David Smith
Employed by [[ That information is not available at your security
clearance, citizen. ]]
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Butch Evans

On Thu, 17 May 2007, Zack Kneisley wrote:

I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a 
signature of this particular list should be allowed unless you pay


Not sure I'd go that far.  I think email sigs are acceptable, 
regardless of the content or poster.  I can tell you that I have a 
single signature file that I use and if it were not allowed on this 
(or some other) list, the I would just go to the trouble to not post 
on that list.


There is value to the list members in the input of various people, 
regardless of their status with WISPA.  However, I think the problem 
(in the case of what started this) was a little different. 
Personally, I think anything should be allowed in an email sig.  I 
think answering questions is (and should be) allowed, even if the 
answer promotes a product you sell.


I am a vendor member of WISPA and I sell consulting services as well 
as technical training for the Mikrotik RouterOS.  I have been on 
this list since it's creation.  I have been a vendor member for only 
a month or two.  I have posted MANY answers to questions on this 
list, some of which were borderline advertisements.  I have, also, 
paid for actual advertisements.  If you look back through the 
archives, you'll see that my posts (most of them) have not been self 
promoting, however, I have gained MUCH value from having 
participated in this, and many other, lists.


I think the problem that started this thread (and the original one) 
should have been handled offlist.  I DO think, however, that blatant 
advertising, which WAS happening, should be kept to a minimum.  I'm 
just glad I'm not the one who has to decide what is and is not 
appropriate.


--
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Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
I think the big problem here is that Dee almost never posts unless he's got 
something to sell folks.


Naturally, people have to be able to talk about what they know.  And when a 
person is selling a product he'd better know that better than anyone else 
eh?  grin


WISPA needs funds to accomplish anything though.  And the vendor members pay 
4x what the wisp members do for membership.  With that comes some marketing 
rights and protections.


Back in the day I spent quite a bit of time talking to Chris Night (anyone 
else remember Sparky of the isp-lists???) about how to run a good list.  The 
most important thing is to make sure that people are on it and are there 
because of a perceived value to themselves.  This means that folks need 
information, from whoever is giving it.  It also needs financial support. 
When you start billing for ad content, those paying for it expect, and 
deserve, that those not paying for content won't be allowed to post ads. 
Especially not blatant ones.


At the risk of offending folks (and none intended) I'll use Patrick and 
Dee as examples.  Both are good guys, care about the industry, are deeply 
committed to what they do etc.  Patrick is a paid member, Dee's not. 
Patrick answers general questions about issues whether he's got something to 
sell or not.  Dee often tells people to contact him for a solution but 
doesn't help on list.


See the difference?  If you have solutions to problems, you have to offer 
them up, even if it doesn't benefit you directly.  In this way you become a 
vital part of the success of the list.  Personally I think one also has much 
more credibility.  I don't usually read posts from anyone that's always 
hocking a product vs. giving away what he knows so that the rest of us can 
benefit from it.  And no, I don't fall for the trick that friends use to get 
each other's names or products out there all of the time.


I hope that Dee does join as a vendor member.  I think that would be great. 
I also hope that Frank (and the other vendor members) can let this water run 
off his back.


I also think that WISPA really should do a better job of policing our lists. 
We now have enough vendor members that we're seeing some overlap and we have 
more responsibilities to them.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list



Zack Kneisley wrote:


I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a signature of
this particular list should be allowed unless you pay for it.


That gets into the incredibly fuzzy question of what counts as
promotion, though.

Let's take the email thread, as an example.

If I'm the owner of SuperDeluxeEmail and post you should use my company
because it's the best, that's probably self-promotion.

What if I say you should use my company because I'm a WISPA member? Is
that promotion, or an advertisement of the sort WISPA has been known to
offer to paying vendor members?

What if I don't disclose that I own SuperDeluxeEmail?

What if I'm using a sock puppet to tell people how awesome
SuperDeluxeEmail is?

What if, instead of being the owner of the company, I'm just a minority
investor? Or merely a very satisfied customer?

What if I think it's a lousy company and I want you to use their service
so you'll think it's lousy and join me in publicly bad-mouthing them?

There's a lot of subtle levels here.

Honestly, IMO a lot of the value of this list comes from the fact that a
lot of different vendors are directly, or indirectly, represented here.
A little self-promotion is probably inevitable, and probably healthy.
(If you can't promote yourself and your business at least a little bit,
you won't be in business for very long.)

Giving WISPA money doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that everyone
walks on eggshells around your booth in the ongoing trade show that is
this mailing list, and doesn't mean that we'll overlook any problems or
shortcomings in your product. Conversely, if you make a good product, we
won't ignore it out-of-hand because you haven't yet tithed. (We'll
probably encourage you to do so, but...)

If we're going to start treating some folks differently based solely
upon whether they're paying members of WISPA, this list loses a lot of
its value.

David Smith
Employed by [[ That information is not available at your security
clearance, citizen. ]]
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Dennis Burgess

I think that the standard e-mail signature should be allowed for any
member.  It is the blaent advertising that should not be allowed.
Dennis




On 5/17/07, Zack Kneisley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I agree. That's what I was trying to get through as well, either
enforcement
of the rules or non-enforcement. Just make it equal across the board for
those who do or do not pay certain dues.

Zack

On 5/17/07, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I also think that WISPA really should do a better job of policing our
 lists.
 We now have enough vendor members that we're seeing some overlap and we
 have
 more responsibilities to them.

 laters,
 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since
 1999!
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



 - Original Message -
 From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list


  Zack Kneisley wrote:
 
  I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a
signature
 of
  this particular list should be allowed unless you pay for it.
 
  That gets into the incredibly fuzzy question of what counts as
  promotion, though.
 
  Let's take the email thread, as an example.
 
  If I'm the owner of SuperDeluxeEmail and post you should use my
company
  because it's the best, that's probably self-promotion.
 
  What if I say you should use my company because I'm a WISPA member?
Is
  that promotion, or an advertisement of the sort WISPA has been known
to
  offer to paying vendor members?
 
  What if I don't disclose that I own SuperDeluxeEmail?
 
  What if I'm using a sock puppet to tell people how awesome
  SuperDeluxeEmail is?
 
  What if, instead of being the owner of the company, I'm just a
minority
  investor? Or merely a very satisfied customer?
 
  What if I think it's a lousy company and I want you to use their
service
  so you'll think it's lousy and join me in publicly bad-mouthing them?
 
  There's a lot of subtle levels here.
 
  Honestly, IMO a lot of the value of this list comes from the fact that
a
  lot of different vendors are directly, or indirectly, represented
here.
  A little self-promotion is probably inevitable, and probably healthy.
  (If you can't promote yourself and your business at least a little
bit,
  you won't be in business for very long.)
 
  Giving WISPA money doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that everyone
  walks on eggshells around your booth in the ongoing trade show that is
  this mailing list, and doesn't mean that we'll overlook any problems
or
  shortcomings in your product. Conversely, if you make a good product,
we
  won't ignore it out-of-hand because you haven't yet tithed. (We'll
  probably encourage you to do so, but...)
 
  If we're going to start treating some folks differently based solely
  upon whether they're paying members of WISPA, this list loses a lot of
  its value.
 
  David Smith
  Employed by [[ That information is not available at your security
  clearance, citizen. ]]
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Zack Kneisley

Point well taken, I think I was trying to make the point that if Dee looked
as if he was blatantly advertising the product by putting that service in
their signature, then that *should* apply to everyone, don't you agree?

I don't have a problem one way or another, I just want the rules to apply to
everyone equally. I don't mind being able to advertise in my signature
either.

Zack
Giga-Data, LLC
The company that sells everything,
consultant of all services,
cheaper than anyone.
Phone: (740)432-3130

(see what I mean)  :-)

On 5/17/07, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Thu, 17 May 2007, Zack Kneisley wrote:

I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a
signature of this particular list should be allowed unless you pay

Not sure I'd go that far.  I think email sigs are acceptable,
regardless of the content or poster.  I can tell you that I have a
single signature file that I use and if it were not allowed on this
(or some other) list, the I would just go to the trouble to not post
on that list.

There is value to the list members in the input of various people,
regardless of their status with WISPA.  However, I think the problem
(in the case of what started this) was a little different.
Personally, I think anything should be allowed in an email sig.  I
think answering questions is (and should be) allowed, even if the
answer promotes a product you sell.

I am a vendor member of WISPA and I sell consulting services as well
as technical training for the Mikrotik RouterOS.  I have been on
this list since it's creation.  I have been a vendor member for only
a month or two.  I have posted MANY answers to questions on this
list, some of which were borderline advertisements.  I have, also,
paid for actual advertisements.  If you look back through the
archives, you'll see that my posts (most of them) have not been self
promoting, however, I have gained MUCH value from having
participated in this, and many other, lists.

I think the problem that started this thread (and the original one)
should have been handled offlist.  I DO think, however, that blatant
advertising, which WAS happening, should be kept to a minimum.  I'm
just glad I'm not the one who has to decide what is and is not
appropriate.

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573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread David E. Smith
Zack Kneisley wrote:

 I don't have a problem one way or another, I just want the rules to
 apply to
 everyone equally. I don't mind being able to advertise in my signature
 either.

I think that's the issue, though - where is the line between normal
harmless customary stuff and blatant self-promotion?

Also, that whole thing about I've used a lot of products for X and
really truly believe Y is the best X there is, and I do coincidentally
sell or service Y but that's beside the point, aka the Butch Evans
Clause. :)

David Smith

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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

WISPA has responsibilities to the Vendor members?  Yikes.  Isn't
WISPA responsible to the Members and Industry first?

I've resisted joining as a Vendor because I disagree with the
commercial nature of it all.  It is not the money, but rather the
principle.  When WISPA was being formed, I contributed about $2,000 in
direct cash and Server Licenses to induce others to pay up, yet I have
never been a member, let alone a FOUNDING MEMBER as some can claim.  I
got real discouraged to be throwing my weight behind the whole things
and the VERY FIRST act of WISPA was to allow Charles to act as if it
were his private list for marketing.  Why did they do that?  Because
Charles gave them some freebies and support.

WISPA has to decide if it is an Organization that is for Vendors to
market to members or is it an Organization for the Industry to
represent the needs of the Industry to Government, and other
regulatory bodies.

This period before elections is a good time have those discussions and
see where all the proposed board members sit on the various issues.

I for one would support a strict no self promotion policy in ANY
email.  Keep it to PAID ads (if you need them at all) and limit the
number of those that can be distributed.  A Vendor should be happy to
support the Industry and should not expect a return or special
privilege.

Lest people jump on me for self promotion, I'll point out that I
always try and point people to our Support Forums.  This list should
NOT become a free support arm for ANY Vendor too lazy or incompetent
to set up their own support lines.  This list should be for issues
that affect the Industry.  Your troubles with routing or bridging or
particular brand of equipment, although important to you at the time,
have very little to do with the Industry in general. There are other
lists for that and also Vendors should have their own solutions to
help you.

So, this is what my day looks like.  Now I'll get back to work.  We're
building 4 more towers this year and I get to run the Bobcat today.
It'll be fun after all.

Lonnie


On 5/17/07, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I think the big problem here is that Dee almost never posts unless he's got
something to sell folks.

Naturally, people have to be able to talk about what they know.  And when a
person is selling a product he'd better know that better than anyone else
eh?  grin

WISPA needs funds to accomplish anything though.  And the vendor members pay
4x what the wisp members do for membership.  With that comes some marketing
rights and protections.

Back in the day I spent quite a bit of time talking to Chris Night (anyone
else remember Sparky of the isp-lists???) about how to run a good list.  The
most important thing is to make sure that people are on it and are there
because of a perceived value to themselves.  This means that folks need
information, from whoever is giving it.  It also needs financial support.
When you start billing for ad content, those paying for it expect, and
deserve, that those not paying for content won't be allowed to post ads.
Especially not blatant ones.

At the risk of offending folks (and none intended) I'll use Patrick and
Dee as examples.  Both are good guys, care about the industry, are deeply
committed to what they do etc.  Patrick is a paid member, Dee's not.
Patrick answers general questions about issues whether he's got something to
sell or not.  Dee often tells people to contact him for a solution but
doesn't help on list.

See the difference?  If you have solutions to problems, you have to offer
them up, even if it doesn't benefit you directly.  In this way you become a
vital part of the success of the list.  Personally I think one also has much
more credibility.  I don't usually read posts from anyone that's always
hocking a product vs. giving away what he knows so that the rest of us can
benefit from it.  And no, I don't fall for the trick that friends use to get
each other's names or products out there all of the time.

I hope that Dee does join as a vendor member.  I think that would be great.
I also hope that Frank (and the other vendor members) can let this water run
off his back.

I also think that WISPA really should do a better job of policing our lists.
We now have enough vendor members that we're seeing some overlap and we have
more responsibilities to them.

laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message -
From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list


 Zack Kneisley wrote:

 I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a signature of
 this particular list should be allowed unless you pay

RE: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Rick Harnish
I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to decide what is and is not
appropriate.

That would be me!  You don't want my job?  Come on Butch, where is your
sense of spirit?

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Jack Unger

Zack,

It is totallly impractical to create and have to (somehow) manage 
different email files for different lists, responses to clients, etc.

One email file is the only practical way to go.

jack


Zack Kneisley wrote:

On 5/17/07, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Zack Kneisley wrote:

 I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a signature
of
 this particular list should be allowed unless you pay for it.

That gets into the incredibly fuzzy question of what counts as
promotion, though.



As I put it, I think there should be a limit of what should be included 
in a

signature due to the fact that it could and is inevitably advertising your
company.


Let's take the email thread, as an example.


If I'm the owner of SuperDeluxeEmail and post you should use my company
because it's the best, that's probably self-promotion.



I agree

What if I say you should use my company because I'm a WISPA member? Is

that promotion, or an advertisement of the sort WISPA has been known to
offer to paying vendor members?



Wispa vendor based advertising is, or should be limited to the specific
advertisement only based posts that that vendor has paid for.


What if I don't disclose that I own SuperDeluxeEmail?


Good question, this is a fuzzy type of situation, and the person is being
dishonest in posting their views because it is biased. they should disclose
this info. Most companies do when they report on a financial partner. Ever
watch the evening news when they report on a parent company? They purposely
disclose this information.


What if I'm using a sock puppet to tell people how awesome

SuperDeluxeEmail is?



Dishonest and shoud be treated so.

What if, instead of being the owner of the company, I'm just a minority

investor? Or merely a very satisfied customer?



Disclose it then.

What if I think it's a lousy company and I want you to use their service

so you'll think it's lousy and join me in publicly bad-mouthing them?



Not quite sure what you mean.

There's a lot of subtle levels here.


Honestly, IMO a lot of the value of this list comes from the fact that a
lot of different vendors are directly, or indirectly, represented here.
A little self-promotion is probably inevitable, and probably healthy.
(If you can't promote yourself and your business at least a little bit,
you won't be in business for very long.)



Rules
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
5) No selling or self promotion allowed.


Giving WISPA money doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that everyone

walks on eggshells around your booth in the ongoing trade show that is
this mailing list, and doesn't mean that we'll overlook any problems or
shortcomings in your product. Conversely, if you make a good product, we
won't ignore it out-of-hand because you haven't yet tithed. (We'll
probably encourage you to do so, but...)



Not talking about a booth, talking about direct advertisement in a 
community

post.

If we're going to start treating some folks differently based solely

upon whether they're paying members of WISPA, this list loses a lot of
its value.



No, just no self promotion that you can buy this product through me in a
general post. this doesn't mean you can't say this product is good because
it does this and this

It is all a little fuzzy, but I think signatures should be limited to a
single link to their site, if not, the majority of the list is breaking the
rules.

If you don't agree, then maybe the rules need to be changed, or enforced
differently.


David Smith

Employed by [[ That information is not available at your security
clearance, citizen. ]]
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RE: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Mac Dearman
See inline comments


 Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
 
 WISPA has responsibilities to the Vendor members?  Yikes.  Isn't
 WISPA responsible to the Members and Industry first?


[Mac says:] 

We do have responsibilities to the paid vendors since their membership is a
major form of financial support that enables/empowers us as an organization
to accomplish the tasks we have before us. If we had no vendor members we
wouldn't have very much capital to work with. Vendor members are a very
important to us. I think that by treating our vendor members well we are
putting our general membership and the industry first. The By-Laws are in
place for a reason and that is to guide this organization, protect this
organization and ultimately put the wireless operator in the driver's seat. 


 
 I've resisted joining as a Vendor because I disagree with the
 commercial nature of it all.  It is not the money, but rather the
 principle.  When WISPA was being formed, I contributed about $2,000 in
 direct cash and Server Licenses to induce others to pay up, yet I have
 never been a member, let alone a FOUNDING MEMBER as some can claim. 

[Mac says:] 

Lonnie - I remember how enthused you were when we first started organizing
WISPA. I don't understand what you mean by the commercial nature of it
all. The only commercial part of WISPA is a paid vendor membership and I
guess the collection of dues from wireless operators. How else would we ever
collect enough revenue to do anything? I understand Love is free, but I
understand you will love in the dark without money.


 
 I got real discouraged to be throwing my weight behind the whole things
 and the VERY FIRST act of WISPA was to allow Charles to act as if it
 were his private list for marketing.  Why did they do that?  Because
 Charles gave them some freebies and support.


[Mac says:] 


NO - that's not even close to right and I think you know that. I am sorry if
you got your feelings hurt, but if memory serves me - we all had a hand and
input for the first WINOG. I don't know about anyone else, but I was
thinking that this might be something for WISPA. A trade show put on by
WISPA in the future. It didn't take any of us very long to realize that it
was not an event that WISPA could do at the time seeing as how we didn't
even have members yet - -  although we did use it to get together and where
the first dues (ever) were collected. I - like you and several others
donated money way before there was even a due structure in place and way
before WINOG 1. I didn't expect anything out of it and the only thing I
wanted was to see WISPA get a start and once again - - what can you do
without money? NO MONEY - NO LAWYER - - NO LAWYER - - NO BY-LAWS - - NO BY
LAWS - - NO ORGANIZATION (non profit legal and all!) 

I THINK YOU OUGHT TO BE A VENDOR MEMBER and I think you need to be
recognized as a vendor who stepped up to the plate in the EARLY days of
forming up this organization with no expectation of special privileges - -
just a good heart and concern for the industry!


 
 WISPA has to decide if it is an Organization that is for Vendors to
 market to members or is it an Organization for the Industry to
 represent the needs of the Industry to Government, and other
 Regulatory bodies.

 [Mac says:] 

That is not an issue! We aren't a money making company and I know you know
this..

Will you support WISPA 100% in all of its financial dealings? I don't think
you or anyone else on this list has pockets that deep. Do you think that we
have no need of staff, a paid lobbyist, electricity, a building of our own
in DC, Should we never have a paid President whose whole job is to lead this
organization thus may stand a chance in leading the WHOLE INDUSTRY??? Trying
to run WISPA (much less accomplish something) without money would be like
you trying to run your business with no money! No Money - No business!


 
 This period before elections is a good time have those discussions and
 see where all the proposed board members sit on the various issues.


[Mac says:]

I agree 100% - - you see where I am standing eh? Lol


 
 I for one would support a strict no self promotion policy in ANY
 email.  Keep it to PAID ads (if you need them at all) and limit the
 number of those that can be distributed.  A Vendor should be happy to
 support the Industry and should not expect a return or special
 privilege.

[Mac says:] 

I guess this will be one of those things decided by the current board. I
have no trouble with email signatures as long as there are no direct
advertisements attached to them. I think mine is OK, but then some of you
may not due to the fact it has my VoIP companies web site attached. See
below sig:

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Rayville, La.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief)
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP sales)
318.728.8600
318.728.9600

(I ain't through - read on)

 
 Lest people jump on me for self promotion, I'll point out that I
 always try and point people to 

Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Zack Kneisley

Jack,

Actually,  that is exactly what I do, you will notice the gmail address? I
have a total of seven gmail addresses that I use. Some reply with a
signature, some don't. I also use Outlook that has 4 pop accounts that it
checks. Two accounts it checks send the same signature one that doesn't and
another that sends an entirely different signature. This is why my
signature, or lack thereof, is not present when I reply to this list. I
don't self promote, because the rules say I shouldn't.

This method is actually the most efficient, most organized, and the easiest
way to sort, search, respond and recall messages that I have ever had in
place in the past 18 years of using the internet. Gopher was alot simpler
back then hu? lol

I don't really have a preference of a sig or no sig or the use of more than
One email file. I just would like clarification of what can or cannot be
done accordance with this lists rules.

Zack

On 5/17/07, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Zack,

It is totallly impractical to create and have to (somehow) manage
different email files for different lists, responses to clients, etc.
One email file is the only practical way to go.

jack


Zack Kneisley wrote:
 On 5/17/07, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Zack Kneisley wrote:

  I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a
signature
 of
  this particular list should be allowed unless you pay for it.

 That gets into the incredibly fuzzy question of what counts as
 promotion, though.


 As I put it, I think there should be a limit of what should be included
 in a
 signature due to the fact that it could and is inevitably advertising
your
 company.


 Let's take the email thread, as an example.

 If I'm the owner of SuperDeluxeEmail and post you should use my
company
 because it's the best, that's probably self-promotion.


 I agree

 What if I say you should use my company because I'm a WISPA member? Is
 that promotion, or an advertisement of the sort WISPA has been known to
 offer to paying vendor members?


 Wispa vendor based advertising is, or should be limited to the specific
 advertisement only based posts that that vendor has paid for.


 What if I don't disclose that I own SuperDeluxeEmail?


 Good question, this is a fuzzy type of situation, and the person is
being
 dishonest in posting their views because it is biased. they should
disclose
 this info. Most companies do when they report on a financial partner.
Ever
 watch the evening news when they report on a parent company? They
purposely
 disclose this information.


 What if I'm using a sock puppet to tell people how awesome
 SuperDeluxeEmail is?


 Dishonest and shoud be treated so.

 What if, instead of being the owner of the company, I'm just a minority
 investor? Or merely a very satisfied customer?


 Disclose it then.

 What if I think it's a lousy company and I want you to use their service
 so you'll think it's lousy and join me in publicly bad-mouthing them?


 Not quite sure what you mean.

 There's a lot of subtle levels here.

 Honestly, IMO a lot of the value of this list comes from the fact that
a
 lot of different vendors are directly, or indirectly, represented here.
 A little self-promotion is probably inevitable, and probably healthy.
 (If you can't promote yourself and your business at least a little bit,
 you won't be in business for very long.)


 Rules
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 5) No selling or self promotion allowed.


 Giving WISPA money doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that everyone
 walks on eggshells around your booth in the ongoing trade show that is
 this mailing list, and doesn't mean that we'll overlook any problems or
 shortcomings in your product. Conversely, if you make a good product,
we
 won't ignore it out-of-hand because you haven't yet tithed. (We'll
 probably encourage you to do so, but...)


 Not talking about a booth, talking about direct advertisement in a
 community
 post.

 If we're going to start treating some folks differently based solely
 upon whether they're paying members of WISPA, this list loses a lot of
 its value.


 No, just no self promotion that you can buy this product through me in
a
 general post. this doesn't mean you can't say this product is good
because
 it does this and this

 It is all a little fuzzy, but I think signatures should be limited to a
 single link to their site, if not, the majority of the list is breaking
the
 rules.

 If you don't agree, then maybe the rules need to be changed, or enforced
 differently.


 David Smith
 Employed by [[ That information is not available at your security
 clearance, citizen. ]]
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Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
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Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP 

Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Jack Unger

Zack,

I salute you for your integrity and your ability to manage 11 email 
accounts. I, on the other hand, in my waking hours between 6 AM and 2 AM 
barely have the ability to keep up with email on a single Thunderbird 
email account. For me, practicality wins the day and I'll continue to 
try and manage and use one main email account that appends one sig file.


I do agree that clarification of the rules is important long as we don't 
get into so much hairsplitting that life becomes totally impractical 
(well, not any more impractical than it already is anyway) :)


Best Regards,
  jack



Zack Kneisley wrote:

Jack,

Actually,  that is exactly what I do, you will notice the gmail address? I
have a total of seven gmail addresses that I use. Some reply with a
signature, some don't. I also use Outlook that has 4 pop accounts that it
checks. Two accounts it checks send the same signature one that doesn't and
another that sends an entirely different signature. This is why my
signature, or lack thereof, is not present when I reply to this list. I
don't self promote, because the rules say I shouldn't.

This method is actually the most efficient, most organized, and the easiest
way to sort, search, respond and recall messages that I have ever had in
place in the past 18 years of using the internet. Gopher was alot simpler
back then hu? lol

I don't really have a preference of a sig or no sig or the use of more than
One email file. I just would like clarification of what can or cannot be
done accordance with this lists rules.

Zack

On 5/17/07, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Zack,

It is totallly impractical to create and have to (somehow) manage
different email files for different lists, responses to clients, etc.
One email file is the only practical way to go.

jack


Zack Kneisley wrote:
 On 5/17/07, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Zack Kneisley wrote:

  I don't feel that ANY promotion of products or services in a
signature
 of
  this particular list should be allowed unless you pay for it.

 That gets into the incredibly fuzzy question of what counts as
 promotion, though.


 As I put it, I think there should be a limit of what should be included
 in a
 signature due to the fact that it could and is inevitably advertising
your
 company.


 Let's take the email thread, as an example.

 If I'm the owner of SuperDeluxeEmail and post you should use my
company
 because it's the best, that's probably self-promotion.


 I agree

 What if I say you should use my company because I'm a WISPA 
member? Is
 that promotion, or an advertisement of the sort WISPA has been 
known to

 offer to paying vendor members?


 Wispa vendor based advertising is, or should be limited to the specific
 advertisement only based posts that that vendor has paid for.


 What if I don't disclose that I own SuperDeluxeEmail?


 Good question, this is a fuzzy type of situation, and the person is
being
 dishonest in posting their views because it is biased. they should
disclose
 this info. Most companies do when they report on a financial partner.
Ever
 watch the evening news when they report on a parent company? They
purposely
 disclose this information.


 What if I'm using a sock puppet to tell people how awesome
 SuperDeluxeEmail is?


 Dishonest and shoud be treated so.

 What if, instead of being the owner of the company, I'm just a minority
 investor? Or merely a very satisfied customer?


 Disclose it then.

 What if I think it's a lousy company and I want you to use their 
service

 so you'll think it's lousy and join me in publicly bad-mouthing them?


 Not quite sure what you mean.

 There's a lot of subtle levels here.

 Honestly, IMO a lot of the value of this list comes from the fact that
a
 lot of different vendors are directly, or indirectly, represented 
here.

 A little self-promotion is probably inevitable, and probably healthy.
 (If you can't promote yourself and your business at least a little 
bit,

 you won't be in business for very long.)


 Rules
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 5) No selling or self promotion allowed.


 Giving WISPA money doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that everyone
 walks on eggshells around your booth in the ongoing trade show that is
 this mailing list, and doesn't mean that we'll overlook any 
problems or

 shortcomings in your product. Conversely, if you make a good product,
we
 won't ignore it out-of-hand because you haven't yet tithed. (We'll
 probably encourage you to do so, but...)


 Not talking about a booth, talking about direct advertisement in a
 community
 post.

 If we're going to start treating some folks differently based solely
 upon whether they're paying members of WISPA, this list loses a lot of
 its value.


 No, just no self promotion that you can buy this product through 
me in

a
 general post. this doesn't mean you can't say this product is good
because
 it does this and this

 It is all a little fuzzy, but I think 

Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Peter R.

I think that WISPA does a great job policing its list.
It ain't easy -- and there are many shades of gray.

I for one think that you should have to pay 'something' to be involved 
on the lists.

Either actually $ or advice points. (Many other forums use this method).

Or have a fine for crossing the line. For instance, if Dee did cross the 
line, he is fined or bounced. To get back on, he has to join as a member.


I try not to use a sig file here. But then Patrick and a few others 
pointed out that without one, no branding - and people don't associate 
other stuff to the P.I.T.A. on the lists :)


Regards,

Peter Radizeski @ RAD-INFO, Inc.
http://4isps.com


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I hope that Dee does join as a vendor member.  I think that would be 
great. I also hope that Frank (and the other vendor members) can let 
this water run off his back.


I also think that WISPA really should do a better job of policing our 
lists. We now have enough vendor members that we're seeing some overlap 
and we have more responsibilities to them.


laters,
Marlon

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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Dennis Burgess

I would agree!  Hear hear! :)  I do get good ads from them too!

On 5/17/07, Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I think that WISPA does a great job policing its list.
It ain't easy -- and there are many shades of gray.

I for one think that you should have to pay 'something' to be involved
on the lists.
Either actually $ or advice points. (Many other forums use this method).

Or have a fine for crossing the line. For instance, if Dee did cross the
line, he is fined or bounced. To get back on, he has to join as a member.

I try not to use a sig file here. But then Patrick and a few others
pointed out that without one, no branding - and people don't associate
other stuff to the P.I.T.A. on the lists :)

Regards,

Peter Radizeski @ RAD-INFO, Inc.
http://4isps.com


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I hope that Dee does join as a vendor member.  I think that would be
great. I also hope that Frank (and the other vendor members) can let
this water run off his back.

I also think that WISPA really should do a better job of policing our
lists. We now have enough vendor members that we're seeing some overlap
and we have more responsibilities to them.

laters,
Marlon

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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Ryan Langseth

Zack Kneisley wrote:

Jack,

Actually,  that is exactly what I do, you will notice the gmail address? I
have a total of seven gmail addresses that I use. Some reply with a
signature, some don't. I also use Outlook that has 4 pop accounts that it
checks. Two accounts it checks send the same signature one that doesn't and
another that sends an entirely different signature. This is why my
signature, or lack thereof, is not present when I reply to this list. I
don't self promote, because the rules say I shouldn't.

This method is actually the most efficient, most organized, and the easiest
way to sort, search, respond and recall messages that I have ever had in
place in the past 18 years of using the internet. Gopher was alot simpler
back then hu? lol

I don't really have a preference of a sig or no sig or the use of more than
One email file. I just would like clarification of what can or cannot be
done accordance with this lists rules.

Zack


That is alot of email accounts.  I limit myself to two accounts that I 
actively check. My work account and my personal account.  If I have a 
list I am involved in, I filter by the list-id header.  If I am 
signing up for something I use the the email address tagging (rfc 2822) 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Those two features plus some filter rules 
works really nice to keep my inbox clean.  There are a few sites that, 
do not like the + sign, those are generally spammy site and I dump 
them to a throwaway account.  btw, gmail does support the +tag.


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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread John Scrivner


Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
Your troubles with routing or bridging or
particular brand of equipment, although important to you at the time,
have very little to do with the Industry in general.

That is your opinion. Mine is that using this list for any tech support, 
financial help, legal, regulatory , etc. is wide open and makes for 
interesting reading most of the time. That is why I am a member of the 
public list. I sign up for other lists in WISPA for various specific 
issues which are dedicated to building the industry like the 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] list, the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list and the 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] list. Membership has its privileges whether you want to 
believe it or not. I still do not understand why you think it is 
rational to ask for WISPA to do this or that but feel no need to support 
us as a member now after we worked this hard to build the association. I 
think most of our members see great value in what we do. I know I do.

Scriv
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Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



- Original Message - 
From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list



WISPA has responsibilities to the Vendor members?  Yikes.  Isn't
WISPA responsible to the Members and Industry first?

I've resisted joining as a Vendor because I disagree with the
commercial nature of it all.  It is not the money, but rather the
principle.  When WISPA was being formed, I contributed about $2,000 in
direct cash and Server Licenses to induce others to pay up, yet I have
never been a member, let alone a FOUNDING MEMBER as some can claim.  I
got real discouraged to be throwing my weight behind the whole things
and the VERY FIRST act of WISPA was to allow Charles to act as if it
were his private list for marketing.  Why did they do that?  Because
Charles gave them some freebies and support.


Boy this is getting old.

Lonnie, there was a FORMAL agreement in place between WISPA and Charles.  He 
paid, out of profit, for the right to use the lists like he did.  He was 
also the first one and we used the experience to fine tune what we do now.


Again, you speak of things which you could/would have known about if you'd 
bothered to participate in an official capacity, or at least ask.




WISPA has to decide if it is an Organization that is for Vendors to
market to members or is it an Organization for the Industry to
represent the needs of the Industry to Government, and other
regulatory bodies.


It's all of those Lonnie.  Vendors are as much a part of the industry as are 
the WISP.  Regulators are a part of what makes us who we are too.  So are 
the customers.


If you'll kindly go back over the bylaws you'll see that wisps HAVE to be a 
bulk of our board's make-up.


We, as a board, protect our PAID vendors because that's the deal we made 
with them.  They were given certain rights when they put their money where 
their mouths are.  It's an incentive for other vendors to pony up.




This period before elections is a good time have those discussions and
see where all the proposed board members sit on the various issues.


Very true.



I for one would support a strict no self promotion policy in ANY
email.


Not practical.  People have to be able to answer questions about what they 
know the most about.  You have to be able to help people with Star OS 
questions and this is a good place to do it.


The line gets drawn when someone asks about a Mikrotik problem and you tell 
the list to use your StarOS solution instead.


And, those that help with general questions will often be given a longer 
leash than those that only speak up when it's in their own self interest. 
Again, it's about the health of the list as much as anything else.



 Keep it to PAID ads (if you need them at all) and limit the
number of those that can be distributed.  A Vendor should be happy to
support the Industry and should not expect a return or special
privilege.


Yeah.  That would be nice.  Not reality though.

Many of our current vendor members are certainly very philanthropic (sp???) 
though.  Many have NEVER posted an ad.  They all get 1 per quarter.




Lest people jump on me for self promotion, I'll point out that I
always try and point people to our Support Forums.  This list should
NOT become a free support arm for ANY Vendor too lazy or incompetent
to set up their own support lines.


Again, we don't mind the support here.  It helps those of us not using the 
product make choices to or not to use it in the future.  It also helps drive 
list membership and that helps drive association membership and ad sales.


We also offer, at no charge to the vendors, specific vendor email lists that 
they can use as they see fit.



 This list should be for issues
that affect the Industry.


Technical issues affect us all.  It's also very helpful to know what 
problems people are having and what they are doing about them.  Keeping the 
customers happy is the MOST important part of our businesses.



 Your troubles with routing or bridging or
particular brand of equipment, although important to you at the time,
have very little to do with the Industry in general.


I totally disagree with that.  It's all important.


There are other
lists for that and also Vendors should have their own solutions to
help you.


Who needs yet another list?



So, this is what my day looks like.  Now I'll get back to work.  We're
building 4 more towers this year and I get to run the Bobcat today.
It'll be fun after all.


I LOVE Bobcats!  Those things are a blast to play with.  Someday I'm gonna 
find an excuse to buy one.  Then I'm gonna paint it yellow and put TONKA 
stickers all over it :-)


Stay safe,
marlon



Lonnie


On 5/17/07, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think the big problem here is that Dee almost never posts unless he's 
got

something to sell folks.

Naturally, people have to be able to talk

Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-17 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181


- Original Message - 
From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Promotion of services on-list



Clint Ricker wrote:


Just making it known that blatant self-promotion by non-Vendor members is
bad taste means that self-promotion is done at one's own risk--sure, I 
may

let people know I offer a service, but I also may alienate all of my
potential customers.


And blatant self-promotion by vendor members is better, just because
they gave WISPA some money?


Yes.  That's part of the deal they got when they signed up.  Does it mean 
that they can post an ad every time they want?  Not at all.  But they can 
certainly let folks know when they have a solution that fits a question that 
was asked.


AND they DO get to post ads according to the vendor member schedule.  Right 
now that means once per quarter.




(I'm not saying this is necessarily your opinion, either express or
implied, it was just a really good place to interject the above.)

I don't think it's fair or appropriate for any individual or any
business entity to get preferential treatment just because they've made
a (probably tax-deductible) donation.


Donations to WISPA are NOT tax deducatble.  WISPA is a 501c6 corp.  That's a 
non profit LOBBYING corp.  Dues are not deductable, but we're also able to 
do much more at the congressional level without getting in trouble for it.



For the present sort of issue,
really the only thing that should get anyone any special treatment is
technical merit - if you make the best widget in the industry, a lot of
people will say yup that's a mighty fine widget.

Fortunately, I think most of the list agrees with this, at least in
principle. The question is just what constitutes unnecessary
self-promotion, and there's no single answer to that - it pretty much
has to be decided on a case-by-case basis.

(If I'm wrong, and there really is a significant paid vendor members =
better than sentiment on the list, well, that's another story entirely.)

David Smith
Bureau 42 Enterprises Multigalactic
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