Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-11-01 Thread Tom DeReggi

Jack,

Its all clear now, thanks!

I doubt that the $125 filters that I used are still available at that 
price; remember that was 14 years ago


Darn time passes fast doesn't it?


rflink's filter


at $325, tower mountable, sounds like a winning solution, that I need to 
try.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen



Tom,

Please see my answers inline, below.

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Jack,

That is helpful information, and helps explain the situation, thank you.

However, I'm not sure that I understand how the response answers my 
primary confusion, how to tell whether the interference is caused by me 
or them. Inserting a filter inline, will of course tell me if my 
interference can or can not be cured with a bandpass filter.  Whether it 
was the other party bleeding outside of its channels, or power 
overloading my receiver, the bandpass filter would help reduce either 
problem, wouldn't it?


If a paging transmitter is transmitting spurious signals down below 928 
MHz, a bandpass filter won't help but if the paging system is NOT 
transmitting off-frequency but is overloading your receiver then the 
bandpass filter WILL help.


(reduction of power and reduction of bandwidth bleedover). So what it 
sounds like is, an installer should always have a filter on-hand to 
insert and test with at time of installation, to see if it helps?


That's a good idea. The installer should check throughput from a distant 
client with and without the filter.



Basically meaning, who cares who the culprit is, if their is a way to 
just cure the problem.


Knowing the culprit is important in order to troubleshoot the problem 
cost effectively; per my previous (and above) explanations. Again, if the 
paging system is transmitting outside it's authorized frequency band, the 
bandpass filter will NOT help.




Where my question specifically related to Trango was Many Trango 
users had installed filters to try and stop the interference from paging 
companies, and it did not help.


Using the correct type of bandpass filter is also important. There are 
narrow-band (single channel) filters and whole-band (902-928 MHz) filters. 
I don't know what type of filters the many Trango installers tried so 
I'm unable to provide further insight into why they got the results they 
did.


Normally, this makes no sense, because
in theory the filters would always help. One of Trango's benefits were 
that it in fact had quality 900 filters installed already to help reduce 
interference. It is one of the features that it had above Canopy, 
Waverider, and OEM wifi products.


Maybe the internal filters weren't good enough to reduce the overloading.



And its not always cheap, to find out wether the filter would help. It 
sometimes means making a second climb to 500 feet, or bringing power up 
500feet for the test, that did not yet have Coax or a second DC power 
feed. Not difficult to do, but clearly an added cost for something that 
may or may not improve above what Trango already has built-in, based on 
other's experience.


Unfortunately, there's no easy way to predict if a filter will help - 
other than trying it. It would help to do an interference survey before 
selecting a tower site. If there is a 929 MHz paging transmitter on a 
tower (an the interference survey) would reveal this, then it is wise to:


1. Stay as far away as possible on that tower, or
2. Don't go on that tower, or
3. Plan to use a good bandpass or cavity filter.

This is just applying basic engineering skills and/or good common sense.



What would be interesting is learning more about the filter that you 
previously procured and/or how to make them.  At $125 each, I'd have a 
slew of them laying around for using on the fly. At $125, it would be 
cheap enough to istall on every CPE radio as well, if needed.  But I 
haven't found them for less than $450, and they typically had closer to 3 
db power reduction on their spec sheets.  And is it possible to build a 
passive Filter that does not require additional electric power?


I doubt that the $125 filters that I used are still available at that 
price; remember that was 14 years ago. Here is a much better filter that 
is available today and it even has an outdoor weatherproof case.


http://www.rflinx.com/products/filters/900/bpfx/

Bandpass filters are passive. They do not require electical power. Also, 
it's likely a waste of money (as I mentioned earlier) to use these on the 
CPE end unless the CPE end is close to a cell tower or paging tower. These 
bandpass filters are most needed on the AP - if the AP is near (or on) a 
cell/paging tower.


jack



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Jack Unger

Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-31 Thread Tom DeReggi

John,

Helpful post!

In summary of this thread, I guess the message I'm getting is, there is no 
substitution for the right tool for the job.
And its clear that an analyzer is the correct tool, to truely learn the 
characteristics of your RF colocated neighbor, without risk of false 
assumptions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Good info Jack. In a past life I was a headend tech in the cable 
television industry. and I also performed signal egress and ingress 
troubleshooting using a Hewlett Packard 8591B analyzer. I spent a few 
thousand hours on this tool and learned much about spectrum analysis at 
that time. Here is some info for some of those out there who may be new to 
spectrum analysis:


There is something that can make these paging transmitters appear to be 
bleeding over into the ISM bands when in fact they may not be. The setting 
on the analyzer is called resolution bandwidth. This setting takes all 
power within a given bandspace and averages it together as it sweeps 
across the screen. The wider this setting is the fewer bumps you see on 
the screen. The trace will smooth out as you increase this setting because 
it is averaging power within a wider space of spectrum. This has the added 
effect of making a loud carrier appear to cover a wider space than it 
actually does and can cause you to believe that a paging or other carrier 
is bleeding over into the ISM band. On the contrary, narrowing the 
resolution bandwidth will show more accurate representation of actual 
power in a given bandspace but is slower to scan on most analyzers and 
produces a very sporadic display. If you are looking for narrowband or 
adjacent channel interference into your band then a narrow resolution 
bandwidth will be required. If you are wanting to take a RSSI reading of 
your own carrier then a wider resolution bandwidth will be required.


Resolution bandwidth is something you should learn to use and understand 
if you want to get more from your work. It is an important part of 
spectrum analysis. If you want to see how good an analyzer is then look at 
how low the resolution bandwidth setting will allow. For our work a 
minimum resolution bandwidth of about 100kHz is probably all you will ever 
need. Also run it at its lowest resolution bandwidth and see how long it 
takes to scan across the screen. If you are comparing multiple analyzers 
make sure you always use the same span setting (difference between upper 
and lower frequency on display). A narrower span will display a narrow 
resolution bandwidth much faster. Better analyzers will have a wide range 
of resolution bandwidth settings and will show a sharp, clean display in 
any setting.


Learning to use a spectrum analyzer can seem daunting at first glance. Do 
not let this intimidate you. You can learn to use this and get meaningful 
information from it if you give it a try. You will not break the analyzer 
by experimenting with it. If the unit you are using has knobs and you had 
it set by someone previously then just take notes of where they are set 
and then experiment with the unit. The most important things to master are 
start frequency, stop frequency, span, center frequency, reference level, 
attenuation, resolution bandwidth. Anything else you learn is good to know 
but not as much as what I just outlined here.


If anyone here is working with an analyzer and does not know what any of 
those things mean then feel free to ask here onlist (or offlist if you 
would prefer to not tell others you do not know):-)

Scriv



Jack Unger wrote:


Tom,

Yes, their gear (the paging stuff) not only costs more but their 
transmitters spurious emissions have to remain low or the paging company 
risks being fined by the FCC. Sure, a transmitter can malfunction once in 
a while and cause interference to the ISM band but this is not a common 
occurance. Our gear has receivers where the manufacturing cost is quite 
low. There may be $50 worth of parts in the receiver section of an AP. 
The vendors typically do not spend a lot of money on components that 
would raise the cost of their equipment and make it non-competitive such 
as adding expensive filters to reduce the overloading problems that only 
a minority of WISPs may ever experience. Similarly, the new cars that 
people buy don't come with the most expensive tires as standard equipment 
because most people would never notice a difference or be willing to pay 
more for the premium tires.


I started deploying 900 MHz bridges in 1993 and 900 MHz APs (yes, for 
WISP service) in 1995. I used Lucent Wavelan cards in those systems. 
Whenever I was located within about 1/3 of a mile from a cell site (with 
colocated 929 MHz and 930 MHz paging) I had

Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-31 Thread Jack Unger

Tom,

Good summary.

jack


Tom DeReggi wrote:


John,

Helpful post!

In summary of this thread, I guess the message I'm getting is, there is 
no substitution for the right tool for the job.
And its clear that an analyzer is the correct tool, to truely learn the 
characteristics of your RF colocated neighbor, without risk of false 
assumptions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Good info Jack. In a past life I was a headend tech in the cable 
television industry. and I also performed signal egress and ingress 
troubleshooting using a Hewlett Packard 8591B analyzer. I spent a few 
thousand hours on this tool and learned much about spectrum analysis 
at that time. Here is some info for some of those out there who may be 
new to spectrum analysis:


There is something that can make these paging transmitters appear to 
be bleeding over into the ISM bands when in fact they may not be. The 
setting on the analyzer is called resolution bandwidth. This setting 
takes all power within a given bandspace and averages it together as 
it sweeps across the screen. The wider this setting is the fewer bumps 
you see on the screen. The trace will smooth out as you increase this 
setting because it is averaging power within a wider space of 
spectrum. This has the added effect of making a loud carrier appear 
to cover a wider space than it actually does and can cause you to 
believe that a paging or other carrier is bleeding over into the ISM 
band. On the contrary, narrowing the resolution bandwidth will show 
more accurate representation of actual power in a given bandspace but 
is slower to scan on most analyzers and produces a very sporadic 
display. If you are looking for narrowband or adjacent channel 
interference into your band then a narrow resolution bandwidth will be 
required. If you are wanting to take a RSSI reading of your own 
carrier then a wider resolution bandwidth will be required.


Resolution bandwidth is something you should learn to use and 
understand if you want to get more from your work. It is an important 
part of spectrum analysis. If you want to see how good an analyzer is 
then look at how low the resolution bandwidth setting will allow. For 
our work a minimum resolution bandwidth of about 100kHz is probably 
all you will ever need. Also run it at its lowest resolution bandwidth 
and see how long it takes to scan across the screen. If you are 
comparing multiple analyzers make sure you always use the same span 
setting (difference between upper and lower frequency on display). A 
narrower span will display a narrow resolution bandwidth much faster. 
Better analyzers will have a wide range of resolution bandwidth 
settings and will show a sharp, clean display in any setting.


Learning to use a spectrum analyzer can seem daunting at first glance. 
Do not let this intimidate you. You can learn to use this and get 
meaningful information from it if you give it a try. You will not 
break the analyzer by experimenting with it. If the unit you are using 
has knobs and you had it set by someone previously then just take 
notes of where they are set and then experiment with the unit. The 
most important things to master are start frequency, stop frequency, 
span, center frequency, reference level, attenuation, resolution 
bandwidth. Anything else you learn is good to know but not as much as 
what I just outlined here.


If anyone here is working with an analyzer and does not know what any 
of those things mean then feel free to ask here onlist (or offlist if 
you would prefer to not tell others you do not know):-)

Scriv



Jack Unger wrote:


Tom,

Yes, their gear (the paging stuff) not only costs more but their 
transmitters spurious emissions have to remain low or the paging 
company risks being fined by the FCC. Sure, a transmitter can 
malfunction once in a while and cause interference to the ISM band 
but this is not a common occurance. Our gear has receivers where the 
manufacturing cost is quite low. There may be $50 worth of parts in 
the receiver section of an AP. The vendors typically do not spend a 
lot of money on components that would raise the cost of their 
equipment and make it non-competitive such as adding expensive 
filters to reduce the overloading problems that only a minority of 
WISPs may ever experience. Similarly, the new cars that people buy 
don't come with the most expensive tires as standard equipment 
because most people would never notice a difference or be willing to 
pay more for the premium tires.


I started deploying 900 MHz bridges in 1993 and 900 MHz APs (yes, for 
WISP service) in 1995. I used Lucent Wavelan cards in those 
systems. Whenever I was located within about 1/3 of a mile from a 
cell site

Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-30 Thread Tom DeReggi

Jack,

That is helpful information, and helps explain the situation, thank you.

However, I'm not sure that I understand how the response answers my primary 
confusion, how to tell whether the interference is caused by me or them. 
Inserting a filter inline, will of course tell me if my interference can or 
can not be cured with a bandpass filter.  Whether it was the other party 
bleeding outside of its channels, or power overloading my receiver, the 
bandpass filter would help reduce either problem, wouldn't it?
(reduction of power and reduction of bandwidth bleedover). So what it sounds 
like is, an installer should always have a filter on-hand to insert and test 
with at time of installation, to see if it helps? Basically meaning, who 
cares who the culprit is, if their is a way to just cure the problem.


Where my question specifically related to Trango was Many Trango users 
had installed filters to try and stop the interference from paging 
companies, and it did not help. Normally, this makes no sense, because in 
theory the filters would always help. One of Trango's benefits were that it 
in fact had quality 900 filters installed already to help reduce 
interference. It is one of the features that it had above Canopy, Waverider, 
and OEM wifi products.


And its not always cheap, to find out wether the filter would help. It 
sometimes means making a second climb to 500 feet, or bringing power up 
500feet for the test, that did not yet have Coax or a second DC power feed. 
Not difficult to do, but clearly an added cost for something that may or may 
not improve above what Trango already has built-in, based on other's 
experience.


What would be interesting is learning more about the filter that you 
previously procured and/or how to make them.  At $125 each, I'd have a slew 
of them laying around for using on the fly. At $125, it would be cheap 
enough to istall on every CPE radio as well, if needed.  But I haven't found 
them for less than $450, and they typically had closer to 3 db power 
reduction on their spec sheets.  And is it possible to build a passive 
Filter that does not require additional electric power?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen



Tom,

Yes, their gear (the paging stuff) not only costs more but their 
transmitters spurious emissions have to remain low or the paging company 
risks being fined by the FCC. Sure, a transmitter can malfunction once in 
a while and cause interference to the ISM band but this is not a common 
occurance. Our gear has receivers where the manufacturing cost is quite 
low. There may be $50 worth of parts in the receiver section of an AP. The 
vendors typically do not spend a lot of money on components that would 
raise the cost of their equipment and make it non-competitive such as 
adding expensive filters to reduce the overloading problems that only a 
minority of WISPs may ever experience. Similarly, the new cars that people 
buy don't come with the most expensive tires as standard equipment because 
most people would never notice a difference or be willing to pay more for 
the premium tires.


I started deploying 900 MHz bridges in 1993 and 900 MHz APs (yes, for WISP 
service) in 1995. I used Lucent Wavelan cards in those systems. Whenever 
I was located within about 1/3 of a mile from a cell site (with colocated 
929 MHz and 930 MHz paging) I had to add an external bandpass filter 
between the antenna and the antenna connector on the Wavelan card. Until I 
did this, I could not get full throughput (which was about 1.3 Mbps in 
those days) through the card. The bandpass filter would clear up the 
problem every time. Those filters weren't even that strong - only about 6 
dB of attenuation at 900 MHz and at 930 MHz (even less - maybe 5 dB at 929 
MHz) but it was enough to protect the Wavelan card's receiver from being 
overloaded. These bandpass filters were made by a 3rd-party source and 
custom tuned by me in a calibration lab. My filter cost was $125 each and 
they were not weatherproof so I mounted them indoors. The inband 
attenuation was aboat 1 or 1.5 dB which was insignificant in light of the 
fact that the filters worked to eliminate the overloading and allow the AP 
to receive client signals up to 10 or 12 miles away.


Regarding Trango - I have not verified the accuracy of their spectrum 
analysis tool but what you're seeing can be explained by one observation 
and one guestimation. The -20 dBm to -30 dBm signal indications above 929 
MHz are likely fairly accurate. Nearby paging transmitters could easily be 
that loud. The fact that you're seeing signals down to 924 MHz or so could 
be explained by the Trango receiver front-end (the first stage connected 
to the antenna) being overloaded

Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-30 Thread Jack Unger

Tom,

Please see my answers inline, below.

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Jack,

That is helpful information, and helps explain the situation, thank you.

However, I'm not sure that I understand how the response answers my 
primary confusion, how to tell whether the interference is caused by me 
or them. Inserting a filter inline, will of course tell me if my 
interference can or can not be cured with a bandpass filter.  Whether it 
was the other party bleeding outside of its channels, or power 
overloading my receiver, the bandpass filter would help reduce either 
problem, wouldn't it?


If a paging transmitter is transmitting spurious signals down below 928 
MHz, a bandpass filter won't help but if the paging system is NOT 
transmitting off-frequency but is overloading your receiver then the 
bandpass filter WILL help.


(reduction of power and reduction of bandwidth bleedover). So what it 
sounds like is, an installer should always have a filter on-hand to 
insert and test with at time of installation, to see if it helps?


That's a good idea. The installer should check throughput from a distant 
client with and without the filter.



Basically meaning, who cares who the culprit is, if their is a way to 
just cure the problem.


Knowing the culprit is important in order to troubleshoot the problem 
cost effectively; per my previous (and above) explanations. Again, if 
the paging system is transmitting outside it's authorized frequency 
band, the bandpass filter will NOT help.




Where my question specifically related to Trango was Many Trango 
users had installed filters to try and stop the interference from paging 
companies, and it did not help. 


Using the correct type of bandpass filter is also important. There are 
narrow-band (single channel) filters and whole-band (902-928 MHz) 
filters. I don't know what type of filters the many Trango installers 
tried so I'm unable to provide further insight into why they got the 
results they did.


Normally, this makes no sense, because
in theory the filters would always help. One of Trango's benefits were 
that it in fact had quality 900 filters installed already to help reduce 
interference. It is one of the features that it had above Canopy, 
Waverider, and OEM wifi products.


Maybe the internal filters weren't good enough to reduce the overloading.



And its not always cheap, to find out wether the filter would help. It 
sometimes means making a second climb to 500 feet, or bringing power up 
500feet for the test, that did not yet have Coax or a second DC power 
feed. Not difficult to do, but clearly an added cost for something that 
may or may not improve above what Trango already has built-in, based on 
other's experience.


Unfortunately, there's no easy way to predict if a filter will help - 
other than trying it. It would help to do an interference survey before 
selecting a tower site. If there is a 929 MHz paging transmitter on a 
tower (an the interference survey) would reveal this, then it is wise to:


1. Stay as far away as possible on that tower, or
2. Don't go on that tower, or
3. Plan to use a good bandpass or cavity filter.

This is just applying basic engineering skills and/or good common sense.



What would be interesting is learning more about the filter that you 
previously procured and/or how to make them.  At $125 each, I'd have a 
slew of them laying around for using on the fly. At $125, it would be 
cheap enough to istall on every CPE radio as well, if needed.  But I 
haven't found them for less than $450, and they typically had closer to 
3 db power reduction on their spec sheets.  And is it possible to build 
a passive Filter that does not require additional electric power?


I doubt that the $125 filters that I used are still available at that 
price; remember that was 14 years ago. Here is a much better filter that 
is available today and it even has an outdoor weatherproof case.


http://www.rflinx.com/products/filters/900/bpfx/

Bandpass filters are passive. They do not require electical power. Also, 
it's likely a waste of money (as I mentioned earlier) to use these on 
the CPE end unless the CPE end is close to a cell tower or paging tower. 
These bandpass filters are most needed on the AP - if the AP is near (or 
 on) a cell/paging tower.


jack



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen



Tom,

Yes, their gear (the paging stuff) not only costs more but their 
transmitters spurious emissions have to remain low or the paging 
company risks being fined by the FCC. Sure, a transmitter can 
malfunction once in a while and cause interference to the ISM band but 
this is not a common occurance. Our gear has receivers where the 
manufacturing cost is quite low. There may be $50 worth

Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-28 Thread Jack Unger

Tom,

Yes, their gear (the paging stuff) not only costs more but their 
transmitters spurious emissions have to remain low or the paging company 
risks being fined by the FCC. Sure, a transmitter can malfunction once 
in a while and cause interference to the ISM band but this is not a 
common occurance. Our gear has receivers where the manufacturing cost is 
quite low. There may be $50 worth of parts in the receiver section of an 
AP. The vendors typically do not spend a lot of money on components that 
would raise the cost of their equipment and make it non-competitive such 
as adding expensive filters to reduce the overloading problems that only 
a minority of WISPs may ever experience. Similarly, the new cars that 
people buy don't come with the most expensive tires as standard 
equipment because most people would never notice a difference or be 
willing to pay more for the premium tires.


I started deploying 900 MHz bridges in 1993 and 900 MHz APs (yes, for 
WISP service) in 1995. I used Lucent Wavelan cards in those systems. 
Whenever I was located within about 1/3 of a mile from a cell site (with 
colocated 929 MHz and 930 MHz paging) I had to add an external bandpass 
filter between the antenna and the antenna connector on the Wavelan 
card. Until I did this, I could not get full throughput (which was about 
1.3 Mbps in those days) through the card. The bandpass filter would 
clear up the problem every time. Those filters weren't even that strong 
- only about 6 dB of attenuation at 900 MHz and at 930 MHz (even less - 
maybe 5 dB at 929 MHz) but it was enough to protect the Wavelan card's 
receiver from being overloaded. These bandpass filters were made by a 
3rd-party source and custom tuned by me in a calibration lab. My filter 
cost was $125 each and they were not weatherproof so I mounted them 
indoors. The inband attenuation was aboat 1 or 1.5 dB which was 
insignificant in light of the fact that the filters worked to eliminate 
the overloading and allow the AP to receive client signals up to 10 or 
12 miles away.


Regarding Trango - I have not verified the accuracy of their spectrum 
analysis tool but what you're seeing can be explained by one observation 
and one guestimation. The -20 dBm to -30 dBm signal indications above 
929 MHz are likely fairly accurate. Nearby paging transmitters could 
easily be that loud. The fact that you're seeing signals down to 924 MHz 
or so could be explained by the Trango receiver front-end (the first 
stage connected to the antenna) being overloaded by one or more nearby 
paging transmitters. When a receiver is overloaded, it generates 
spurious signals that are not really being transmitted on the 
frequency where they show up. The spurs are being generated inside the 
receiver itself as a consequence of the overloading. It's fairly easy to 
test to see if this is the case. Just insert a bandpass filter between 
the antenna and the antenna connector (assuming a connectorized AP). If 
the AP receiving distance and/or the throughput increases, you have just 
 proved that overloading was a problem. You can also re-run the 
spectrum analysis tool and see if it no longer reports signals down to 
924 MHz. It should now report that the non-WISP signals start around 929 
MHz.


I hope this explanation helps.

jack


Tom DeReggi wrote:


Jack,

That all sounds good, and it brings up a good point, that we are just as 
probable to be the culprit, not just the other guy.

Besides, their gear costs more, right :-)
However, what specific gear do you have experience with, on this issue, 
to support your comment?
I'm not sure that I am knowledgable enough on the topic, to know for 
sure which side is the flaw, how would we tell?


I use Trango 900. Trango's have a built-in specrum site survey tool, 
that also scans a bit lower and higher than the ISM edge.  My comment 
was based on the fact that, when I do the site survey, I see signals in 
the neg 20-30 range, spanning from significantly above 930 down to mid 
portion of ISM channel 4 (924 or so).
Have you verified the accuracy of the Trango tool, and how it reacts to 
this situation?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Bleed over implies that the paging system is transmitting a signal 
that is too wide. This is typically NOT the case. Our rather 
inexpensive WISP AP receivers do not have adequate selectivity to 
reject strong nearby signals. In other words, it's our equipment 
problem not their equipment problem.


Also, WISP subscriber sites, unless located right under a 
paging/cellular tower aren't close enough to be overloaded by 
paging/cellular so they would not need the bandpass filter. Only our 
APs which are located near paging/cellular towers should need the 
bandpass

Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-28 Thread John Scrivner
. My filter cost was $125 each and they were 
not weatherproof so I mounted them indoors. The inband attenuation was 
aboat 1 or 1.5 dB which was insignificant in light of the fact that 
the filters worked to eliminate the overloading and allow the AP to 
receive client signals up to 10 or 12 miles away.


Regarding Trango - I have not verified the accuracy of their spectrum 
analysis tool but what you're seeing can be explained by one 
observation and one guestimation. The -20 dBm to -30 dBm signal 
indications above 929 MHz are likely fairly accurate. Nearby paging 
transmitters could easily be that loud. The fact that you're seeing 
signals down to 924 MHz or so could be explained by the Trango 
receiver front-end (the first stage connected to the antenna) being 
overloaded by one or more nearby paging transmitters. When a receiver 
is overloaded, it generates spurious signals that are not really 
being transmitted on the frequency where they show up. The spurs are 
being generated inside the receiver itself as a consequence of the 
overloading. It's fairly easy to test to see if this is the case. Just 
insert a bandpass filter between the antenna and the antenna connector 
(assuming a connectorized AP). If the AP receiving distance and/or the 
throughput increases, you have just  proved that overloading was a 
problem. You can also re-run the spectrum analysis tool and see if it 
no longer reports signals down to 924 MHz. It should now report that 
the non-WISP signals start around 929 MHz.


I hope this explanation helps.

jack


Tom DeReggi wrote:


Jack,

That all sounds good, and it brings up a good point, that we are just 
as probable to be the culprit, not just the other guy.

Besides, their gear costs more, right :-)
However, what specific gear do you have experience with, on this 
issue, to support your comment?
I'm not sure that I am knowledgable enough on the topic, to know for 
sure which side is the flaw, how would we tell?


I use Trango 900. Trango's have a built-in specrum site survey tool, 
that also scans a bit lower and higher than the ISM edge.  My comment 
was based on the fact that, when I do the site survey, I see signals 
in the neg 20-30 range, spanning from significantly above 930 down to 
mid portion of ISM channel 4 (924 or so).
Have you verified the accuracy of the Trango tool, and how it reacts 
to this situation?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Bleed over implies that the paging system is transmitting a signal 
that is too wide. This is typically NOT the case. Our rather 
inexpensive WISP AP receivers do not have adequate selectivity to 
reject strong nearby signals. In other words, it's our equipment 
problem not their equipment problem.


Also, WISP subscriber sites, unless located right under a 
paging/cellular tower aren't close enough to be overloaded by 
paging/cellular so they would not need the bandpass filter. Only our 
APs which are located near paging/cellular towers should need the 
bandpass filters.


jack


Larry Yunker wrote:

While filters can help, the problem that I see is that filters are: 
1) expensive and 2) bulky.  Last time I checked, a cavity filter 
for the 902-928 range was roughly $300-$400.  I don't see it being 
practical to install one of these at every customer site!


Cavity filters are fine for your broadcast sites, but that is of 
little help when the 900Mhz paging systems bleed over so much that 
they deafen the subscriber radios.


- Larry


- Original Message - From: Mike Cowan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Filters fix this problem quite handily.  We recommend one on every 
system needed or not.  I don't see an issue here.


Mike



At 07:07 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:


ISM 902-928.

Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of 
ISM 900 bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to 
blead over from 930 Licensed high power gear (500W).  If the same 
thing were to occur at the lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it 
could kill Channel 1 also, horribly effecting WISPs using 
unlicenced.  They also may be requesting to use higher power on 
the actual ISM bands, argueing Public Safety is more important 
than unlicensed use.  Iftheir request is granted, specifics 
should be lsited on how they are going to prevent interference 
with existing unlicensed band users.  Remember that the goal may 
not only be to use the spectrum. They have benefit in killing off 
all the 900Mhz WISPs, that could compete with Sprint/Nextel Next 
generation WiMax type Licensed 700M-900M solutions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed

RE: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-27 Thread rwf
Rich-
Just so we all know where you are coming from and in the interest of Full
Disclosure, please tell us your involvement in the
Dialcall/Nextel/Motorola/IDEN endeavor- specifically any vested interest in
the technology (hint- Patents).



-Original Message-

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I don't know what the beef is.  FleetCall bought up in the vicinity of 100
trunking  SMR channels in each major metro almost 20 yrs ago.  They claimed
to the FCC that they could serve significantly more users than the typical
100 users/channel of the current early 90s analog technology.  100 channels
at 100 users apiece serves only in the vicinity of 10,000 users.  With the
iDen technology they ultimately served almost half a million in the same
geographic area with the same spectrum.  So much for the unneeded
technology assessment.

Now that they're called NexTel, sure they continue adding whatever remaining
licenses they can get their hands on, but the 800 and 900 Trunking and bands
are land-locked (no room for expansion), so there's no new technology
targeted to this band that I know of.  Now that they're merged with Sprint,
it's no secret where their new technology is targeted (WiMAX).

Rich

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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-27 Thread Larry Yunker
While filters can help, the problem that I see is that filters are: 1) 
expensive and 2) bulky.  Last time I checked, a cavity filter for the 
902-928 range was roughly $300-$400.  I don't see it being practical to 
install one of these at every customer site!


Cavity filters are fine for your broadcast sites, but that is of little help 
when the 900Mhz paging systems bleed over so much that they deafen the 
subscriber radios.


- Larry


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Filters fix this problem quite handily.  We recommend one on every system 
needed or not.  I don't see an issue here.


Mike



At 07:07 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:

ISM 902-928.

Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of ISM 900 
bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to blead over from 
930 Licensed high power gear (500W).  If the same thing were to occur at 
the lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it could kill Channel 1 also, 
horribly effecting WISPs using unlicenced.  They also may be requesting to 
use higher power on the actual ISM bands, argueing Public Safety is more 
important than unlicensed use.  Iftheir request is granted, specifics 
should be lsited on how they are going to prevent interference with 
existing unlicensed band users.  Remember that the goal may not only be to 
use the spectrum. They have benefit in killing off all the 900Mhz WISPs, 
that could compete with Sprint/Nextel Next generation WiMax type Licensed 
700M-900M solutions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



Mike Cowan
Wireless Connections
A Division of ACC
166 Milan Ave
Norwalk, OH  44857
419-660-6100
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wirelessconnections.net

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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-27 Thread John Scrivner
If you have an adjacent channel carrier which is running hundreds of 
watts of power then you may not have a choice of whether to use the 
bandpass filter or not. Your system may not operate in the upper part of 
the 900 MHz band. What happens is that the adjacent carrier will swamp 
your receiver and your base station will essentially become deaf to your 
own, much quieter, client radios. The bandpass filter is the sole remedy 
to this. I think many people use filters by default because they do 
little harm to your system performance and may mean the difference 
between your system working or completely failing in the presence of 
higher-powered adjacent carriers.


I currently run Waverider 900 MHz systems and because of this I may have 
a system which is more sensitive to adjacent carrier swamping than other 
platforms. I simply do not know about other platforms to say one way or 
another. I believe Charles has tested several 900 MHz platforms and may 
be able to expand on this discussion. It is important to note that he 
may have a bias toward Canopy as he now sells that platform. I can only 
assume that his testing may have led him, in part, to this platform 
choice for 900 MHz systems. Care to share your thoughts Charles?


If anyone out there has any past experience with swamped 900 MHJz 
receivers, bandpass filters, different 900 MHz platforms, etc. then 
please share your thoughts about the use/need for bandpass filters. I 
would like to know more myself.

Scriv


Larry Yunker wrote:

While filters can help, the problem that I see is that filters are: 1) 
expensive and 2) bulky.  Last time I checked, a cavity filter for the 
902-928 range was roughly $300-$400.  I don't see it being practical 
to install one of these at every customer site!


Cavity filters are fine for your broadcast sites, but that is of 
little help when the 900Mhz paging systems bleed over so much that 
they deafen the subscriber radios.


- Larry


- Original Message - From: Mike Cowan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Filters fix this problem quite handily.  We recommend one on every 
system needed or not.  I don't see an issue here.


Mike



At 07:07 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:


ISM 902-928.

Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of 
ISM 900 bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to 
blead over from 930 Licensed high power gear (500W).  If the same 
thing were to occur at the lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it 
could kill Channel 1 also, horribly effecting WISPs using 
unlicenced.  They also may be requesting to use higher power on the 
actual ISM bands, argueing Public Safety is more important than 
unlicensed use.  Iftheir request is granted, specifics should be 
lsited on how they are going to prevent interference with existing 
unlicensed band users.  Remember that the goal may not only be to 
use the spectrum. They have benefit in killing off all the 900Mhz 
WISPs, that could compete with Sprint/Nextel Next generation WiMax 
type Licensed 700M-900M solutions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



Mike Cowan
Wireless Connections
A Division of ACC
166 Milan Ave
Norwalk, OH  44857
419-660-6100
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wirelessconnections.net

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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-27 Thread Tom DeReggi

Cavity Filters create several additional problems

1) Assuming most filters are narrow individual channel widths... It takes 
away the benefit to move your Radio Freq Channel to stear around 
interference on the fly.


2) Assuming 1 Filter covers the full width of the Band... The filters add 
significant loss, 3-4 db, so channels 1,2,3 that may not need the filters 
get compromised, just to save channel 4.  In this business every DB counts.


3) Most filters get installed on the ground, where they can easilly get 
power and not need water proofing, then requiring large COAX runs to create 
additional signal loss. However, assuming one has a tower mountable unit, 
Many CAT5 powered 900M Radios, have the Antenna's built in, with no Coax 
option to install the filter on.


4) What we found worked best was to use very high grade Sector antennas w/ 
higher front to back ratios and sharper cut offs (which is hard to 
accomplish with NLOS 900M, but are a couple brands that accomplish this). 
These antenna get rid of most of the AP side colocation interference, near 
equivellent to the filter.  Although the filter did a bit better on AP side, 
it was counter-acted by reducing signal several DB, having negative effects 
on gaining the required signal based on interference and NLOS foliage 
degrading CPE signal. And of course combine this with good radios with 
built-in noise reduction.


With that said, I'm not saying a filter can't help in all cases, thats what 
they were designed for, to help. My point is that the benefit starts to be 
diminished signifantly compared to the cost.  This issue is overyly 
burdensome to the provider.   So the last thing we want to see happen is it 
get re-created on lower bands of 900Mhz.  (iDEN ?)


As far as filters If someone wanted to buy one, its a more complicated 
task than one always realizes. Cavity filters, notch filters, saw filters, 
Custom built, etc, what to get, and where to buy?  Do you have 
recommendations on which Cavity Filters to use, for outdoor tower mounting? 
Or do you use the ones that WaveRider sold?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Larry Yunker [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


While filters can help, the problem that I see is that filters are: 1) 
expensive and 2) bulky.  Last time I checked, a cavity filter for the 
902-928 range was roughly $300-$400.  I don't see it being practical to 
install one of these at every customer site!


Cavity filters are fine for your broadcast sites, but that is of little 
help when the 900Mhz paging systems bleed over so much that they deafen 
the subscriber radios.


- Larry


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Filters fix this problem quite handily.  We recommend one on every system 
needed or not.  I don't see an issue here.


Mike



At 07:07 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:

ISM 902-928.

Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of ISM 900 
bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to blead over from 
930 Licensed high power gear (500W).  If the same thing were to occur at 
the lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it could kill Channel 1 also, 
horribly effecting WISPs using unlicenced.  They also may be requesting 
to use higher power on the actual ISM bands, argueing Public Safety is 
more important than unlicensed use.  Iftheir request is granted, 
specifics should be lsited on how they are going to prevent interference 
with existing unlicensed band users.  Remember that the goal may not only 
be to use the spectrum. They have benefit in killing off all the 900Mhz 
WISPs, that could compete with Sprint/Nextel Next generation WiMax type 
Licensed 700M-900M solutions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



Mike Cowan
Wireless Connections
A Division of ACC
166 Milan Ave
Norwalk, OH  44857
419-660-6100
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wirelessconnections.net

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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-27 Thread Rich Comroe

I'd originally written:

The preponderence of NexTel channels are in the private land mobile
806-821/850-865 conventional / trunking band, and a small percentage in the
902-906 trunking band.

...

I am most likely off on the numeric band


I sure was [numerically off - that is].  What's known as the '900' trunking 
band runs from 896-902.  I was only correct that it is *below* the 900 ISM 
band, and that it is only 12.5kHz channelized.


rwf wrote:

Just so we all know where you are coming from and in the interest of Full
Disclosure, please tell us your involvement in the
Dialcall/Nextel/Motorola/IDEN endeavor- specifically any vested interest 
in

the technology (hint- Patents).


Concerned that I might be some company shill?  No need.  I'd be happy to 
provide full disclosure.  I left Moto about 4 yrs ago.  I did some of the 
original work on Motorola's FCC comments to FleetCall's waiver request back 
in 92, but never worked in iDEN development.  None of my patents are 
specific to iDEN technology, but I'd be flattered if you had looked them up. 
I've no vested interest in any of them anyway (all patents rights while 
employed at Moto are assigned to Moto, not the inventors).  I've no vested 
interest in NexTel.  As close as I get is my neighbor is a NexTel employee 
in sales ... does that count?   Personally, I never liked or used NexTel 
service based on poor coverage / quality where I needed service.  Hey, terms 
like '800' MHz, '900' MHz are *not one allocation*.  Being from the radio 
manufacturing industry I'm acutely aware of how many different allocations 
are within these ranges.  That's all, I just trying to be helpful in 
pointing out where the NexTel 900 trunking you mentioned is in relation to 
900 MHz unlicensed ISM.  And that I know that the iDEN served orders or 
magnitude more customers for NexTel than the original SMR license holders 
ever had, as FleetCall's original petition for waiver had correctly claimed. 
And that it's public knowledge where NexTel's new developments are targeted 
to other bands in conjunction with Sprint.


chill,
Rich

- Original Message - 
From: rwf [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 2:24 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen



Rich-
Just so we all know where you are coming from and in the interest of Full
Disclosure, please tell us your involvement in the
Dialcall/Nextel/Motorola/IDEN endeavor- specifically any vested interest 
in

the technology (hint- Patents).



-Original Message-

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I don't know what the beef is.  FleetCall bought up in the vicinity of 100
trunking  SMR channels in each major metro almost 20 yrs ago.  They 
claimed

to the FCC that they could serve significantly more users than the typical
100 users/channel of the current early 90s analog technology.  100 
channels

at 100 users apiece serves only in the vicinity of 10,000 users.  With the
iDen technology they ultimately served almost half a million in the same
geographic area with the same spectrum.  So much for the unneeded
technology assessment.

Now that they're called NexTel, sure they continue adding whatever 
remaining
licenses they can get their hands on, but the 800 and 900 Trunking and 
bands

are land-locked (no room for expansion), so there's no new technology
targeted to this band that I know of.  Now that they're merged with 
Sprint,

it's no secret where their new technology is targeted (WiMAX).

Rich

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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-27 Thread Jack Unger
Bleed over implies that the paging system is transmitting a signal 
that is too wide. This is typically NOT the case. Our rather inexpensive 
WISP AP receivers do not have adequate selectivity to reject strong 
nearby signals. In other words, it's our equipment problem not their 
equipment problem.


Also, WISP subscriber sites, unless located right under a 
paging/cellular tower aren't close enough to be overloaded by 
paging/cellular so they would not need the bandpass filter. Only our APs 
which are located near paging/cellular towers should need the bandpass 
filters.


jack


Larry Yunker wrote:

While filters can help, the problem that I see is that filters are: 1) 
expensive and 2) bulky.  Last time I checked, a cavity filter for the 
902-928 range was roughly $300-$400.  I don't see it being practical to 
install one of these at every customer site!


Cavity filters are fine for your broadcast sites, but that is of little 
help when the 900Mhz paging systems bleed over so much that they 
deafen the subscriber radios.


- Larry


- Original Message - From: Mike Cowan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Filters fix this problem quite handily.  We recommend one on every 
system needed or not.  I don't see an issue here.


Mike



At 07:07 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:


ISM 902-928.

Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of ISM 
900 bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to blead 
over from 930 Licensed high power gear (500W).  If the same thing 
were to occur at the lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it could 
kill Channel 1 also, horribly effecting WISPs using unlicenced.  They 
also may be requesting to use higher power on the actual ISM bands, 
argueing Public Safety is more important than unlicensed use.  
Iftheir request is granted, specifics should be lsited on how they 
are going to prevent interference with existing unlicensed band 
users.  Remember that the goal may not only be to use the spectrum. 
They have benefit in killing off all the 900Mhz WISPs, that could 
compete with Sprint/Nextel Next generation WiMax type Licensed 
700M-900M solutions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



Mike Cowan
Wireless Connections
A Division of ACC
166 Milan Ave
Norwalk, OH  44857
419-660-6100
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wirelessconnections.net

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Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-27 Thread Jack Unger
I concur. When a 900 MHz access point (AP) is located near a 
high-power paging (or other high-power) transmitter then a bandpass 
filter is cheap insurance to avoid or minimize the AP receiver 
desensing (overload) that the high-power transmitter may cause. It's 
impossible to know in advance how near a high-power transmitter is too 
near. It depends on the AP receiver selectivity, the power of the 
nearby transmitter, the antenna patterns, the separation distance and 
the strength of the incoming signals from the WISP clients.
Bandpass filters will help. Physically moving further away from the 
high-power transmitter will also help.


jack

P.S. - This is discussed on page 258 of my book.


John Scrivner wrote:

If you have an adjacent channel carrier which is running hundreds of 
watts of power then you may not have a choice of whether to use the 
bandpass filter or not. Your system may not operate in the upper part of 
the 900 MHz band. What happens is that the adjacent carrier will swamp 
your receiver and your base station will essentially become deaf to your 
own, much quieter, client radios. The bandpass filter is the sole remedy 
to this. I think many people use filters by default because they do 
little harm to your system performance and may mean the difference 
between your system working or completely failing in the presence of 
higher-powered adjacent carriers.


I currently run Waverider 900 MHz systems and because of this I may have 
a system which is more sensitive to adjacent carrier swamping than other 
platforms. I simply do not know about other platforms to say one way or 
another. I believe Charles has tested several 900 MHz platforms and may 
be able to expand on this discussion. It is important to note that he 
may have a bias toward Canopy as he now sells that platform. I can only 
assume that his testing may have led him, in part, to this platform 
choice for 900 MHz systems. Care to share your thoughts Charles?


If anyone out there has any past experience with swamped 900 MHJz 
receivers, bandpass filters, different 900 MHz platforms, etc. then 
please share your thoughts about the use/need for bandpass filters. I 
would like to know more myself.

Scriv


Larry Yunker wrote:

While filters can help, the problem that I see is that filters are: 1) 
expensive and 2) bulky.  Last time I checked, a cavity filter for the 
902-928 range was roughly $300-$400.  I don't see it being practical 
to install one of these at every customer site!


Cavity filters are fine for your broadcast sites, but that is of 
little help when the 900Mhz paging systems bleed over so much that 
they deafen the subscriber radios.


- Larry


- Original Message - From: Mike Cowan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Filters fix this problem quite handily.  We recommend one on every 
system needed or not.  I don't see an issue here.


Mike



At 07:07 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:


ISM 902-928.

Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of 
ISM 900 bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to 
blead over from 930 Licensed high power gear (500W).  If the same 
thing were to occur at the lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it 
could kill Channel 1 also, horribly effecting WISPs using 
unlicenced.  They also may be requesting to use higher power on the 
actual ISM bands, argueing Public Safety is more important than 
unlicensed use.  Iftheir request is granted, specifics should be 
lsited on how they are going to prevent interference with existing 
unlicensed band users.  Remember that the goal may not only be to 
use the spectrum. They have benefit in killing off all the 900Mhz 
WISPs, that could compete with Sprint/Nextel Next generation WiMax 
type Licensed 700M-900M solutions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



Mike Cowan
Wireless Connections
A Division of ACC
166 Milan Ave
Norwalk, OH  44857
419-660-6100
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wirelessconnections.net

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Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
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True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-27 Thread Tom DeReggi

Jack,

That all sounds good, and it brings up a good point, that we are just as 
probable to be the culprit, not just the other guy.

Besides, their gear costs more, right :-)
However, what specific gear do you have experience with, on this issue, to 
support your comment?
I'm not sure that I am knowledgable enough on the topic, to know for sure 
which side is the flaw, how would we tell?


I use Trango 900. Trango's have a built-in specrum site survey tool, that 
also scans a bit lower and higher than the ISM edge.  My comment was based 
on the fact that, when I do the site survey, I see signals in the neg 20-30 
range, spanning from significantly above 930 down to mid portion of ISM 
channel 4 (924 or so).
Have you verified the accuracy of the Trango tool, and how it reacts to this 
situation?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Bleed over implies that the paging system is transmitting a signal that 
is too wide. This is typically NOT the case. Our rather inexpensive WISP 
AP receivers do not have adequate selectivity to reject strong nearby 
signals. In other words, it's our equipment problem not their equipment 
problem.


Also, WISP subscriber sites, unless located right under a paging/cellular 
tower aren't close enough to be overloaded by paging/cellular so they 
would not need the bandpass filter. Only our APs which are located near 
paging/cellular towers should need the bandpass filters.


jack


Larry Yunker wrote:

While filters can help, the problem that I see is that filters are: 1) 
expensive and 2) bulky.  Last time I checked, a cavity filter for the 
902-928 range was roughly $300-$400.  I don't see it being practical to 
install one of these at every customer site!


Cavity filters are fine for your broadcast sites, but that is of little 
help when the 900Mhz paging systems bleed over so much that they deafen 
the subscriber radios.


- Larry


- Original Message - From: Mike Cowan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


Filters fix this problem quite handily.  We recommend one on every 
system needed or not.  I don't see an issue here.


Mike



At 07:07 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:


ISM 902-928.

Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of ISM 
900 bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to blead over 
from 930 Licensed high power gear (500W).  If the same thing were to 
occur at the lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it could kill Channel 
1 also, horribly effecting WISPs using unlicenced.  They also may be 
requesting to use higher power on the actual ISM bands, argueing Public 
Safety is more important than unlicensed use.  Iftheir request is 
granted, specifics should be lsited on how they are going to prevent 
interference with existing unlicensed band users.  Remember that the 
goal may not only be to use the spectrum. They have benefit in killing 
off all the 900Mhz WISPs, that could compete with Sprint/Nextel Next 
generation WiMax type Licensed 700M-900M solutions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



Mike Cowan
Wireless Connections
A Division of ACC
166 Milan Ave
Norwalk, OH  44857
419-660-6100
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wirelessconnections.net

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RE: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-26 Thread rwf
Nextel has been buying up 900 MHz trunked systems for years now.
Probably will do what they did to build their first ESMR (Nextel IDEN)-
Take perfectly good systems off the air so they can drive the users to an
unneeded tcchnology.
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I think this is definately something we need the answer to (What part of
900Mhz). What exactly is Green Space?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

 They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
 R



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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-26 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Could they really get by on the low power in the unlicensed noisy 
bands?  Langeler, you know?  Everything I have heard is the big boys 
use high power (at least compared to us) and HIGH receive sensitivity 
because on no noise and that is why is works so well.  Except my Nextel 
has SUCKED for the last two month.  Dropped call after dropped call.


Brian

rwf wrote:


Nextel has been buying up 900 MHz trunked systems for years now.
Probably will do what they did to build their first ESMR (Nextel IDEN)-
Take perfectly good systems off the air so they can drive the users to an
unneeded tcchnology.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I think this is definately something we need the answer to (What part of
900Mhz). What exactly is Green Space?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


 


http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
R



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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-26 Thread John Scrivner
I am not familiar with the terms you describe below and I am a bit 
confused. Can you break this down with a little more detail and 
explanation? I would like to understand this as I think it is very 
important for us to know what they are trying to do here in 900 MHz.

Thank you,
John Scrivner


rwf wrote:


Nextel has been buying up 900 MHz trunked systems for years now.
Probably will do what they did to build their first ESMR (Nextel IDEN)-
Take perfectly good systems off the air so they can drive the users to an
unneeded tcchnology.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I think this is definately something we need the answer to (What part of
900Mhz). What exactly is Green Space?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


 


http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
R



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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-26 Thread Rich Comroe
I don't know what the beef is.  FleetCall bought up in the vicinity of 100 
trunking  SMR channels in each major metro almost 20 yrs ago.  They claimed 
to the FCC that they could serve significantly more users than the typical 
100 users/channel of the current early 90s analog technology.  100 channels 
at 100 users apiece serves only in the vicinity of 10,000 users.  With the 
iDen technology they ultimately served almost half a million in the same 
geographic area with the same spectrum.  So much for the unneeded 
technology assessment.


Now that they're called NexTel, sure they continue adding whatever remaining 
licenses they can get their hands on, but the 800 and 900 Trunking and bands 
are land-locked (no room for expansion), so there's no new technology 
targeted to this band that I know of.  Now that they're merged with Sprint, 
it's no secret where their new technology is targeted (WiMAX).


Rich

- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


I am not familiar with the terms you describe below and I am a bit 
confused. Can you break this down with a little more detail and 
explanation? I would like to understand this as I think it is very 
important for us to know what they are trying to do here in 900 MHz.

Thank you,
John Scrivner


rwf wrote:


Nextel has been buying up 900 MHz trunked systems for years now.
Probably will do what they did to build their first ESMR (Nextel IDEN)-
Take perfectly good systems off the air so they can drive the users to an
unneeded tcchnology.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I think this is definately something we need the answer to (What part of
900Mhz). What exactly is Green Space?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen




http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
R



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RE: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-26 Thread Brian Webster
Before everyone gets in an uproar about this, has anyone looked in to the
actual frequencies being used? I'm pretty sure Nextel has some licensed 900
MHz spectrum. I don't have time to dig around for the information but as I
recall they do. I could be wrong. They certainly won't deploy an IDEN system
in the unlicensed bandsCome on. They might however cause
interference with unlicensed stuff in certain situations where you might be
co-located on the same sites. From what I have read I think this is only
going to be in selected East Coast cities anyway, and it's a band aid
approach to the rebanding process.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


I am not familiar with the terms you describe below and I am a bit
confused. Can you break this down with a little more detail and
explanation? I would like to understand this as I think it is very
important for us to know what they are trying to do here in 900 MHz.
Thank you,
John Scrivner


rwf wrote:

Nextel has been buying up 900 MHz trunked systems for years now.
Probably will do what they did to build their first ESMR (Nextel IDEN)-
Take perfectly good systems off the air so they can drive the users to an
unneeded tcchnology.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I think this is definately something we need the answer to (What part of
900Mhz). What exactly is Green Space?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen




http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
R



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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-26 Thread Rich Comroe
The preponderence of NexTel channels are in the private land mobile 
806-821/850-865 conventional / trunking band, and a small percentage in the 
902-906 trunking band.  So I believe whatever '900' channels they have are 
*below* the 900 ISM band.  I am most likely off on the numeric band limits. 
But there are IIRC 15MHz of 25KHz channels that they hold licenses among at 
800 (and the separate reverse channels 45MHz higher), and only 4MHz of 
12.5KHz channels at 900 (including both TR, but I don't recall the T/R 
split there).


Rich

- Original Message - 
From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen



Before everyone gets in an uproar about this, has anyone looked in to the
actual frequencies being used? I'm pretty sure Nextel has some licensed 
900

MHz spectrum. I don't have time to dig around for the information but as I
recall they do. I could be wrong. They certainly won't deploy an IDEN 
system

in the unlicensed bandsCome on. They might however cause
interference with unlicensed stuff in certain situations where you might 
be

co-located on the same sites. From what I have read I think this is only
going to be in selected East Coast cities anyway, and it's a band aid
approach to the rebanding process.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


I am not familiar with the terms you describe below and I am a bit
confused. Can you break this down with a little more detail and
explanation? I would like to understand this as I think it is very
important for us to know what they are trying to do here in 900 MHz.
Thank you,
John Scrivner


rwf wrote:


Nextel has been buying up 900 MHz trunked systems for years now.
Probably will do what they did to build their first ESMR (Nextel IDEN)-
Take perfectly good systems off the air so they can drive the users to an
unneeded tcchnology.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I think this is definately something we need the answer to (What part of
900Mhz). What exactly is Green Space?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen





http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
R



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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-26 Thread Tom DeReggi

The scare was that... Unlicensed was specifically mentioned.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen



Before everyone gets in an uproar about this, has anyone looked in to the
actual frequencies being used? I'm pretty sure Nextel has some licensed 
900

MHz spectrum. I don't have time to dig around for the information but as I
recall they do. I could be wrong. They certainly won't deploy an IDEN 
system

in the unlicensed bandsCome on. They might however cause
interference with unlicensed stuff in certain situations where you might 
be

co-located on the same sites. From what I have read I think this is only
going to be in selected East Coast cities anyway, and it's a band aid
approach to the rebanding process.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


I am not familiar with the terms you describe below and I am a bit
confused. Can you break this down with a little more detail and
explanation? I would like to understand this as I think it is very
important for us to know what they are trying to do here in 900 MHz.
Thank you,
John Scrivner


rwf wrote:


Nextel has been buying up 900 MHz trunked systems for years now.
Probably will do what they did to build their first ESMR (Nextel IDEN)-
Take perfectly good systems off the air so they can drive the users to an
unneeded tcchnology.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I think this is definately something we need the answer to (What part of
900Mhz). What exactly is Green Space?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen





http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
R



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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-26 Thread Tom DeReggi

ISM 902-928.

Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of ISM 900 
bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to blead over from 930 
Licensed high power gear (500W).  If the same thing were to occur at the 
lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it could kill Channel 1 also, horribly 
effecting WISPs using unlicenced.  They also may be requesting to use higher 
power on the actual ISM bands, argueing Public Safety is more important than 
unlicensed use.  Iftheir request is granted, specifics should be lsited on 
how they are going to prevent interference with existing unlicensed band 
users.  Remember that the goal may not only be to use the spectrum. They 
have benefit in killing off all the 900Mhz WISPs, that could compete with 
Sprint/Nextel Next generation WiMax type Licensed  700M-900M solutions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Rich Comroe [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


The preponderence of NexTel channels are in the private land mobile 
806-821/850-865 conventional / trunking band, and a small percentage in 
the 902-906 trunking band.  So I believe whatever '900' channels they have 
are *below* the 900 ISM band.  I am most likely off on the numeric band 
limits. But there are IIRC 15MHz of 25KHz channels that they hold licenses 
among at 800 (and the separate reverse channels 45MHz higher), and only 
4MHz of 12.5KHz channels at 900 (including both TR, but I don't recall 
the T/R split there).


Rich

- Original Message - 
From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen



Before everyone gets in an uproar about this, has anyone looked in to the
actual frequencies being used? I'm pretty sure Nextel has some licensed 
900
MHz spectrum. I don't have time to dig around for the information but as 
I
recall they do. I could be wrong. They certainly won't deploy an IDEN 
system

in the unlicensed bandsCome on. They might however cause
interference with unlicensed stuff in certain situations where you might 
be

co-located on the same sites. From what I have read I think this is only
going to be in selected East Coast cities anyway, and it's a band aid
approach to the rebanding process.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen


I am not familiar with the terms you describe below and I am a bit
confused. Can you break this down with a little more detail and
explanation? I would like to understand this as I think it is very
important for us to know what they are trying to do here in 900 MHz.
Thank you,
John Scrivner


rwf wrote:


Nextel has been buying up 900 MHz trunked systems for years now.
Probably will do what they did to build their first ESMR (Nextel IDEN)-
Take perfectly good systems off the air so they can drive the users to an
unneeded tcchnology.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

I think this is definately something we need the answer to (What part of
900Mhz). What exactly is Green Space?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen





http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
R



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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-26 Thread Mike Cowan
Filters fix this problem quite handily.  We recommend one on every 
system needed or not.  I don't see an issue here.


Mike



At 07:07 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:

ISM 902-928.

Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of 
ISM 900 bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to 
blead over from 930 Licensed high power gear (500W).  If the same 
thing were to occur at the lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it 
could kill Channel 1 also, horribly effecting WISPs using 
unlicenced.  They also may be requesting to use higher power on the 
actual ISM bands, argueing Public Safety is more important than 
unlicensed use.  Iftheir request is granted, specifics should be 
lsited on how they are going to prevent interference with existing 
unlicensed band users.  Remember that the goal may not only be to 
use the spectrum. They have benefit in killing off all the 900Mhz 
WISPs, that could compete with Sprint/Nextel Next generation WiMax 
type Licensed  700M-900M solutions.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



Mike Cowan
Wireless Connections
A Division of ACC
166 Milan Ave
Norwalk, OH  44857
419-660-6100
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wirelessconnections.net

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[WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-25 Thread Rick Smith
http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
R



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Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen

2006-10-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
I think this is definately something we need the answer to (What part of 
900Mhz). What exactly is Green Space?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen



http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27618

They don't say exact freq's except for the reference to unlicensed...
R



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