[WISPA] VoIP reselling.
So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.
Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing and tax filing in your behalf. If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the difference between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate? On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote: So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Randy Cosby InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 --- This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information. Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy the original message, all attachments and copies. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.
This can vary by locality too. We offer voip and collect/pay USF, sales tax, state 911, and a different county 911 fee for each county we serve. On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing and tax filing in your behalf. If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the difference between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate? On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote: So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Randy Cosby InfoWest, Inc435-674-0165 x 2010 --- This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information. Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy the original message, all attachments and copies. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.
On 3/26/2014 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing and tax filing in your behalf. If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the difference between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate? USF rules are pretty strict. If a USF-subject class of carrier has interstate telecommunications revenues (not Internet per se) that would subject it to USF payments of $10k/year, then it is de minimis and does not pay. BUT then its suppliers treat it as retail and they pay on the services supplied to the de minimis carrier. Once the carrier crosses out of de minimis, it suppliers must verify that it is paying USF, and then should not charge it USF on their wholesale sales. So it's paid once, only once, by the last non-de mimimis carrier en route to the retail customer. (Disclaimer: IANAL and that's just my understanding.) E911 is a state requirement. Interconnected VoIP services have to do it, but the state sets the price. On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote: So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Randy Cosby InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 --- This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information. Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactrco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy the original message, all attachments and copies. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.
Roger I have experience with VoIP but no experience with US VoIP rules. Anyway, the rule is always the same: who owns the customers? If you are a RESELLER (how powerful are words!) then you resell the service, i.e. it sounds like you are not selling the service but re-selling, i.e. you are just the guy in the middle between the service provider (them) and the customer. So, RE-selling does not sound like what you want to do, i.e. the customer sign a contract with you, whatever is your provider if you are connected to them or to others. So I would say to the salesman if he is so sure that the contract that you are going to sign makes YOU a service provider and not just another of their zombie-resellers... Personally we want to be the operator who will sell the service and not the reseller who will just get revenues from the contracts. That is RESELLING somebody else (not you) providing the service, and you finding customers for them. Regards So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Level7 s.r.l. unipersonale Sede operativa: Largo Montalto, 5 - 90144 Palermo C.F. e P.IVA 05940050825 Fax : +39-091-8772072 assistenza: (+39) 091-8776432 web: http://www.level7.it ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.
This is a matter where you really need a telecom lawyer with knowledge of your state. What we found is you really need to avoid hitting that interconnected VoIP requirement. As for how you do that, check with your lawyers. Once we crossed that it's been a chain of paperwork that seems to never end. Going beyond just paying USF (and it sucks when your bookkeeper forgets to account for interest and your licensed backhaul applications are held up for pennies) you have recordkeeping requirements, compliance requirements for customer information, and now some kind procedure for accessibility by persons with disabilities. That's just the federal level. Once your state public service people see your FCC 499 (from USF) you might be hearing from them about more paperwork. On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Roger Howard g5inter...@gmail.com wrote: So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.
So if I'm de minimis, do I have to register anything with the FCC? or just ignore it and let Vitelity pay until I get big? On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote: On 3/26/2014 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing and tax filing in your behalf. If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the difference between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate? USF rules are pretty strict. If a USF-subject class of carrier has interstate telecommunications revenues (not Internet per se) that would subject it to USF payments of $10k/year, then it is de minimis and does not pay. BUT then its suppliers treat it as retail and they pay on the services supplied to the de minimis carrier. Once the carrier crosses out of de minimis, it suppliers must verify that it is paying USF, and then should not charge it USF on their wholesale sales. So it's paid once, only once, by the last non-de mimimis carrier en route to the retail customer. (Disclaimer: IANAL and that's just my understanding.) E911 is a state requirement. Interconnected VoIP services have to do it, but the state sets the price. On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote: So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Randy Cosby InfoWest, Inc435-674-0165 x 2010 --- This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information. Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy the original message, all attachments and copies. ___ Wireless mailing listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.
On 3/26/2014 1:44 PM, Roger Howard wrote: So if I'm de minimis, do I have to register anything with the FCC? or just ignore it and let Vitelity pay until I get big? If you're de minimis -- and just reselling might be an out, if the underlying carrier owns the customers, pays USF, and essentially gives you a commission, but I'm really not sure about that -- then you still have to file Form 499-A (annual) and give the numbers. If you're above the limit, then you file Form 499-Q (quarterly) and give the numbers and remit the money. On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: On 3/26/2014 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing and tax filing in your behalf. If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the difference between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate? USF rules are pretty strict. If a USF-subject class of carrier has interstate telecommunications revenues (not Internet per se) that would subject it to USF payments of $10k/year, then it is de minimis and does not pay. BUT then its suppliers treat it as retail and they pay on the services supplied to the de minimis carrier. Once the carrier crosses out of de minimis, it suppliers must verify that it is paying USF, and then should not charge it USF on their wholesale sales. So it's paid once, only once, by the last non-de mimimis carrier en route to the retail customer. (Disclaimer: IANAL and that's just my understanding.) E911 is a state requirement. Interconnected VoIP services have to do it, but the state sets the price. On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote: So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Randy Cosby InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 tel:435-674-0165%20x%202010 --- This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information. Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactrco...@infowest.com mailto:rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy the original message, all attachments and copies. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred atinterisle.net http://interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 tel:%2B1%20617%20795%202701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.
On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:44:57 -0500 Roger Howard g5inter...@gmail.com wrote: So if I'm de minimis, do I have to register anything with the FCC? or just ignore it and let Vitelity pay until I get big? Get a telcom lawyer. This is a minefield and can blow up in your face if you do it wrong. There are several groups that do just this and they are not that expensive. If I remember correctly there are a couple on this list. We provide wholesale voip to a couple of WISP's. We own the customer, we handle the e911 and USF and we bill though the WISP in the customer's name and the agent doesn't have access to the CPNI data. It's all running through our switch and it's still a minefield. We have had to consult the lawyers multiple times to be sure to keep us and the WISP out of hot water. So, the salesman could be right or he might not know and doesn't care. Don't trust what he say's or anybody else for that matter. Get you own lawyer that knows both Federal and your State requirements. The fines for mistakes are designed to get the attention of multi-national companies. They could easily kill one of us. On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.comwrote: On 3/26/2014 12:53 PM, Randy Cosby wrote: Doesn't sound right to me, unless they are going to do all the billing and tax filing in your behalf. If they charge you USF on your wholesale rate, who pays on the difference between your wholesale rate and the customer's marked up rate? USF rules are pretty strict. If a USF-subject class of carrier has interstate telecommunications revenues (not Internet per se) that would subject it to USF payments of $10k/year, then it is de minimis and does not pay. BUT then its suppliers treat it as retail and they pay on the services supplied to the de minimis carrier. Once the carrier crosses out of de minimis, it suppliers must verify that it is paying USF, and then should not charge it USF on their wholesale sales. So it's paid once, only once, by the last non-de mimimis carrier en route to the retail customer. (Disclaimer: IANAL and that's just my understanding.) E911 is a state requirement. Interconnected VoIP services have to do it, but the state sets the price. On 3/26/2014 10:51 AM, Roger Howard wrote: So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Randy Cosby InfoWest, Inc435-674-0165 x 2010 --- This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information. Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact rco...@infowest.com by reply email and destroy the original message, all attachments and copies. ___ Wireless mailing listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Larry Ash Network Administrator Mountain West Telephone 123 W 1st St. Casper, WY 82601 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP reselling.
Only the person sending the bill to the end user can do all of that. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Roger Howard g5inter...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 11:51:47 AM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP reselling. So I've been using Vitelity for a while in the office here, with freeswitch, and it works great. I was considering reselling the vitelity service to my customers, the only thing that has held me back is the legal requirements. I thought I had to collect USF fees, register with the FCC, pay it to them. Maybe sales tax. etc. I was at wispamerica yesterday and talked to a fellow at the Vitelity booth. He told me that they collect the USF, so we don't have to, the e-911 is optional, all I have to do is sign up as a reseller to get better pricing and charge what I like to the customers. Is this correct? I've learned to never trust a salesman. Something doesn't sound right, surely it can't be that easy? Thanks, Roger ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
