Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-29 Thread Scott Reed
I figured the 1:1 was what would have to happen.  Since that ties up a 
public address, we charge for it.  He wasn't real keen on that.
Yes, we have 100+ customers per NATted public IP address.

On 12/28/2010 11:10 PM, Jeromie Reeves wrote:
 The only way to make it Open is to 1:1 NAT or make it the default for
 all packets on their NAT IP. I nat at the border and just assign
 another IP and do subnet:1 NAt and then make the console the default.
 Do you have more then 1 customer per NAT IP??

 On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Scott Reedsr...@nwwnet.net  wrote:
 Thank you, Blake.  That is the one.  After the memory refresh, I still
 have one question.  The router doing the NAT is a Mikrotik running
 3.30.  Is there a way to make it do Open NAT?

 On 12/28/2010 7:41 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
 On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.
 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

 --
 Blake Covarrubias


 
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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-29 Thread Mike Hammett

Another reason why you don't NAT at the border.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 12/28/2010 6:57 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
Well now I don't think I can do that to the one customer since the NAT 
is at the border.  Then all the other customers would call because 
their game doesn't work.

And that customer has a least 2 units.

On 12/28/2010 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


Then you will need to port forward 3074 to the xbox.  Obviously 
limited to 1 that way.


On Dec 28, 2010 7:16 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net 
mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:

 Since we NAT at the border, a packet sent to the address/port
 combination will get to the customer XBox. They are using a switch on
 the inside.

 On 12/28/2010 7:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Did you PAT to the xbox? Ie if a packet is sent to the customers ip
 seen by the world, would it hit the xbox?

 On Dec 28, 2010 7:08 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net 
mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net

 mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
  Since we have all ports open, well at least the ones described in
  anything I can find about XBox NAT, and NAT at the border, why would
  customers not have open NAT?
 
  On 12/28/2010 7:03 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote:
  Not the best description, but
  http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=451043
 
  I know the post you are talking about, but I can't seem to find it
 either.
 
  On 12/28/10 4:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
  I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of
 Microsoft's
  definition of restrict NAT, etc.
  I can not find that link. Would someone please remind me where to
 look.
 
 
 
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-29 Thread Mike Hammett
My XBox has had Open NAT since 2.9.x.  You just forward port 3074 (I 
think that's the port) to the XBox's IP.

Newer versions (I forget the starting version) will do uPNP with 
multiple XBoxes.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 12/28/2010 7:04 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
 Thank you, Blake.  That is the one.  After the memory refresh, I still
 have one question.  The router doing the NAT is a Mikrotik running
 3.30.  Is there a way to make it do Open NAT?

 On 12/28/2010 7:41 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
 On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.
 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

 --
 Blake Covarrubias


 
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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-29 Thread Josh Luthman
4.6 in Mikrotik
On Dec 29, 2010 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
 My XBox has had Open NAT since 2.9.x. You just forward port 3074 (I
 think that's the port) to the XBox's IP.

 Newer versions (I forget the starting version) will do uPNP with
 multiple XBoxes.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 12/28/2010 7:04 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
 Thank you, Blake. That is the one. After the memory refresh, I still
 have one question. The router doing the NAT is a Mikrotik running
 3.30. Is there a way to make it do Open NAT?

 On 12/28/2010 7:41 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
 On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link. Would someone please remind me where to look.
 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

 --
 Blake Covarrubias




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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-29 Thread Scott Reed
Doesn't UPnP require the NAT device be the next upstream device?

On 12/29/2010 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
 My XBox has had Open NAT since 2.9.x.  You just forward port 3074 (I
 think that's the port) to the XBox's IP.

 Newer versions (I forget the starting version) will do uPNP with
 multiple XBoxes.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 12/28/2010 7:04 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
 Thank you, Blake.  That is the one.  After the memory refresh, I still
 have one question.  The router doing the NAT is a Mikrotik running
 3.30.  Is there a way to make it do Open NAT?

 On 12/28/2010 7:41 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
 On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.
 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

 --
 Blake Covarrubias


 
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Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
Mikrotik Advanced Certified
www.nwwnet.net
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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-29 Thread Mike Hammett
I would assume so.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 12/29/2010 8:23 AM, Scott Reed wrote:
 Doesn't UPnP require the NAT device be the next upstream device?

 On 12/29/2010 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
 My XBox has had Open NAT since 2.9.x.  You just forward port 3074 (I
 think that's the port) to the XBox's IP.

 Newer versions (I forget the starting version) will do uPNP with
 multiple XBoxes.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 12/28/2010 7:04 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
 Thank you, Blake.  That is the one.  After the memory refresh, I still
 have one question.  The router doing the NAT is a Mikrotik running
 3.30.  Is there a way to make it do Open NAT?

 On 12/28/2010 7:41 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
 On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.
 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

 --
 Blake Covarrubias


 
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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-29 Thread Josh Luthman
Yes

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote:

 I would assume so.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 On 12/29/2010 8:23 AM, Scott Reed wrote:
  Doesn't UPnP require the NAT device be the next upstream device?
 
  On 12/29/2010 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
  My XBox has had Open NAT since 2.9.x.  You just forward port 3074 (I
  think that's the port) to the XBox's IP.
 
  Newer versions (I forget the starting version) will do uPNP with
  multiple XBoxes.
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 
  On 12/28/2010 7:04 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
  Thank you, Blake.  That is the one.  After the memory refresh, I still
  have one question.  The router doing the NAT is a Mikrotik running
  3.30.  Is there a way to make it do Open NAT?
 
  On 12/28/2010 7:41 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
  On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
 
  I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of
 Microsoft's
  definition of restrict NAT, etc.
  I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to
 look.
  http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live
 
  --
  Blake Covarrubias
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-29 Thread Jeromie Reeves
I NAT at the border just fine. It is 1:1 and not 100:1 however. I
provide the first public free, the next (for 2+ consoles) is extra. I
wish IPv6 was moving faster.

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:58 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
 Another reason why you don't NAT at the border.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 On 12/28/2010 6:57 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

 Well now I don't think I can do that to the one customer since the NAT is at
 the border.  Then all the other customers would call because their game
 doesn't work.
 And that customer has a least 2 units.

 On 12/28/2010 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Then you will need to port forward 3074 to the xbox.  Obviously limited to 1
 that way.

 On Dec 28, 2010 7:16 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
 Since we NAT at the border, a packet sent to the address/port
 combination will get to the customer XBox. They are using a switch on
 the inside.

 On 12/28/2010 7:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Did you PAT to the xbox? Ie if a packet is sent to the customers ip
 seen by the world, would it hit the xbox?

 On Dec 28, 2010 7:08 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net
 mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
  Since we have all ports open, well at least the ones described in
  anything I can find about XBox NAT, and NAT at the border, why would
  customers not have open NAT?
 
  On 12/28/2010 7:03 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote:
  Not the best description, but
  http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=451043
 
  I know the post you are talking about, but I can't seem to find it
 either.
 
  On 12/28/10 4:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
  I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of
 Microsoft's
  definition of restrict NAT, etc.
  I can not find that link. Would someone please remind me where to
 look.
 
 
 
 

 
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  (765) 855-1060
 
 
 
 
 

 
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[WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Scott Reed
I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's 
definition of restrict NAT, etc.
I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.

-- 
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Owner
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Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
Mikrotik Advanced Certified
www.nwwnet.net
(765) 855-1060





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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Sam Tetherow
Not the best description, but
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=451043

I know the post you are talking about, but I can't seem to find it either.

On 12/28/10 4:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.





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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Scott Reed
Since we have all ports open, well at least the ones described in 
anything I can find about XBox NAT,  and NAT at the border, why would 
customers not have open NAT?

On 12/28/2010 7:03 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote:
 Not the best description, but
 http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=451043

 I know the post you are talking about, but I can't seem to find it either.

 On 12/28/10 4:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.



 
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Mikrotik Advanced Certified
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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Josh Luthman
Did you PAT to the xbox?  Ie if a packet is sent to the customers ip seen by
the world, would it hit the xbox?
On Dec 28, 2010 7:08 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
 Since we have all ports open, well at least the ones described in
 anything I can find about XBox NAT, and NAT at the border, why would
 customers not have open NAT?

 On 12/28/2010 7:03 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote:
 Not the best description, but
 http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=451043

 I know the post you are talking about, but I can't seem to find it
either.

 On 12/28/10 4:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link. Would someone please remind me where to look.





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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Scott Reed
Since we NAT at the border, a packet sent to the address/port 
combination will get to the customer XBox. They are using a switch on 
the inside.


On 12/28/2010 7:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


Did you PAT to the xbox?  Ie if a packet is sent to the customers ip 
seen by the world, would it hit the xbox?


On Dec 28, 2010 7:08 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net 
mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:

 Since we have all ports open, well at least the ones described in
 anything I can find about XBox NAT, and NAT at the border, why would
 customers not have open NAT?

 On 12/28/2010 7:03 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote:
 Not the best description, but
 http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=451043

 I know the post you are talking about, but I can't seem to find it 
either.


 On 12/28/10 4:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of 
Microsoft's

 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link. Would someone please remind me where to 
look.




 


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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Josh Luthman
Then you will need to port forward 3074 to the xbox.  Obviously limited to 1
that way.
On Dec 28, 2010 7:16 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
 Since we NAT at the border, a packet sent to the address/port
 combination will get to the customer XBox. They are using a switch on
 the inside.

 On 12/28/2010 7:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Did you PAT to the xbox? Ie if a packet is sent to the customers ip
 seen by the world, would it hit the xbox?

 On Dec 28, 2010 7:08 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net
 mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
  Since we have all ports open, well at least the ones described in
  anything I can find about XBox NAT, and NAT at the border, why would
  customers not have open NAT?
 
  On 12/28/2010 7:03 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote:
  Not the best description, but
  http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=451043
 
  I know the post you are talking about, but I can't seem to find it
 either.
 
  On 12/28/10 4:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
  I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of
 Microsoft's
  definition of restrict NAT, etc.
  I can not find that link. Would someone please remind me where to
 look.
 
 
 
 


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  (765) 855-1060
 
 
 
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Blake Covarrubias
On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's 
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Scott Reed
Well now I don't think I can do that to the one customer since the NAT 
is at the border.  Then all the other customers would call because their 
game doesn't work.

And that customer has a least 2 units.

On 12/28/2010 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


Then you will need to port forward 3074 to the xbox.  Obviously 
limited to 1 that way.


On Dec 28, 2010 7:16 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net 
mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:

 Since we NAT at the border, a packet sent to the address/port
 combination will get to the customer XBox. They are using a switch on
 the inside.

 On 12/28/2010 7:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Did you PAT to the xbox? Ie if a packet is sent to the customers ip
 seen by the world, would it hit the xbox?

 On Dec 28, 2010 7:08 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net 
mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net

 mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
  Since we have all ports open, well at least the ones described in
  anything I can find about XBox NAT, and NAT at the border, why would
  customers not have open NAT?
 
  On 12/28/2010 7:03 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote:
  Not the best description, but
  http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=451043
 
  I know the post you are talking about, but I can't seem to find it
 either.
 
  On 12/28/10 4:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
  I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of
 Microsoft's
  definition of restrict NAT, etc.
  I can not find that link. Would someone please remind me where to
 look.
 
 
 
 
 


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  www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net
  (765) 855-1060
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Josh Luthman
That's my point.  I am pretty sure you can dstnat and the other xbox will
stay closed/restricted NAT.
On Dec 28, 2010 7:57 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
 Well now I don't think I can do that to the one customer since the NAT
 is at the border. Then all the other customers would call because their
 game doesn't work.
 And that customer has a least 2 units.

 On 12/28/2010 7:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Then you will need to port forward 3074 to the xbox. Obviously
 limited to 1 that way.

 On Dec 28, 2010 7:16 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net
 mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
  Since we NAT at the border, a packet sent to the address/port
  combination will get to the customer XBox. They are using a switch on
  the inside.
 
  On 12/28/2010 7:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 
  Did you PAT to the xbox? Ie if a packet is sent to the customers ip
  seen by the world, would it hit the xbox?
 
  On Dec 28, 2010 7:08 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net
 mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net
  mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net mailto:sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
   Since we have all ports open, well at least the ones described in
   anything I can find about XBox NAT, and NAT at the border, why would
   customers not have open NAT?
  
   On 12/28/2010 7:03 PM, Sam Tetherow wrote:
   Not the best description, but
   http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=451043
  
   I know the post you are talking about, but I can't seem to find it
  either.
  
   On 12/28/10 4:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
   I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of
  Microsoft's
   definition of restrict NAT, etc.
   I can not find that link. Would someone please remind me where to
  look.
  
  
  
  
 


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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Scott Reed
Thank you, Blake.  That is the one.  After the memory refresh, I still 
have one question.  The router doing the NAT is a Mikrotik running 
3.30.  Is there a way to make it do Open NAT?

On 12/28/2010 7:41 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
 On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.
 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

 --
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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Robert West
That would be this one..

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

It was originally from Liam.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Reed
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
definition of restrict NAT, etc.
I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.

--
Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays Networking, LLC
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified
www.nwwnet.net
(765) 855-1060






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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread RickG
Does UPnP help?

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

 That would be this one..

 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

 It was originally from Liam.

 Bob-


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Scott Reed
 Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:43 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.

 --
 Scott Reed
 Owner
 NewWays Networking, LLC
 Wireless Networking
 Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified
 www.nwwnet.net
 (765) 855-1060





 
 
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Re: [WISPA] XBOX Restricted NAT Reminder

2010-12-28 Thread Jeromie Reeves
The only way to make it Open is to 1:1 NAT or make it the default for
all packets on their NAT IP. I nat at the border and just assign
another IP and do subnet:1 NAt and then make the console the default.
Do you have more then 1 customer per NAT IP??

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Scott Reed sr...@nwwnet.net wrote:
 Thank you, Blake.  That is the one.  After the memory refresh, I still
 have one question.  The router doing the NAT is a Mikrotik running
 3.30.  Is there a way to make it do Open NAT?

 On 12/28/2010 7:41 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
 On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

 I know someone posted a link to an excellent description of Microsoft's
 definition of restrict NAT, etc.
 I can not find that link.  Would someone please remind me where to look.
 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Live/EngineeringBlog/NATs-and-xbox-live

 --
 Blake Covarrubias


 
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