Re: [WISPA] solar site
The best way to design an off-grid radio system is to take advantage of every chance you find to avoid having to generate a watt in the first place. Two drop-in replacement, high-efficiency voltage regulator devices that can help to that end: http://store.gravitech.us/312v1aswvore.html http://store.gravitech.us/35v1aswvore.html My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
That's one point I was making with my fuzzy math repeater example. :-) I think the Wili card radios in that repeater system will operate down to 7V. I may need more than toys if I tried to use legacy 48V stuff and the resultant voltage conversions. At 10:08 AM 8/29/2009, you wrote: The best way to design an off-grid radio system is to take advantage of every chance you find to avoid having to generate a watt in the first place. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
IF you need to power 48V equipment from a 12 or 24V battery system take a look at these 9-36V input 48V output DCDC converters/POE inserters. It is much more efficient than going the inverter to 120VAC and back to 48VDC route. They supply 30W so should power most 48V equipment. http://store.wisp-router.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=TP-DCDC-1248eq=Tp= Regards, Scott -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site 48VDC equipment is almost always carrier-class and that is where the expense is. That isn't quite the same as having a 48VDC power plant with non carrier-class equipment running on it. What is really absurd is converting a 12/24/48VDC battery plant to 120VAC to feed a piece of equipment that is going to convert it back down to 5VDC and 12VDC using a reasonably reliable but highly inefficient computer type switching power supply. Cisco and Motorola make some of the most power-inefficient networking and radio equipment on the market. No big deal when you are on the grid. But a real big deal when you are not. I guess off-grid sites are just too tiny a portion of their market to worry about. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of ralph Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site But isn't your panel expense 2 to 4 times as much? I looked at powering some Tropos and Cisco mesh with solar and compared 48v with 12 volt. The 12 volt used a really high efficiency inverter to 120v and then to the radio. It was less than half the overall cost of the 48v system. Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site * 48 volt power system (actually -48VDC) is a telco standard and there is a LOT of carrier-class telecom equipment and charging systems designed to operate on that voltage. Especially a lot of remote management control and monitoring stuff. * For the same watts, when voltage goes up, amperage goes down. This means less percentage energy loss from voltage drop in wiring and the ability to use smaller gauge wire for power. * Using high-efficiency Picoverters to power 12VDC and 24VDC devices from 48VDC means that your 12VDC devices can still operate reliably when the 48VDC battery plant is down to near exhaustion. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:09 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Chris, Re #4: Is that because the usable voltage? Ie: 11.2V of 12, 18 of 24? 36-38 of 48? Are these close to correct for std POE? Or what WISP's use? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I have designed a fair number of off-grid radio sites and in general, I have come up with a few additional guidelines. 1. Have enough battery capacity to run for 7 days with zero charging. This will give you a window of response time if the charging system suffers a failure (or theft/vandalism) or there is an extended episode of inclement weather. 2. Avoid as many power conversions as possible. 3. Avoid any equipment that has a built-in cooling fan. 4. 48 volt power systems are more efficient than 24 volt power systems are more efficient than 12 volt power systems. 5. Avoid inverters and equipment that is 120VAC only. 6. Don't forget to consider environmental issues and projected temperature extremes. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Instead of talking 33.3 days and 24 hours of sun, let's just take an average day
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I'd want to see that graph dropping off sooner, perhaps finishing the charging by about 1pm. Is your charge controller a 3 stage charger (bulk, absorb, float) or some approximation? It looks like your batteries might just be getting full when the sun is going down. Was that a clear sky day? How long has that site been in service? Are you getting a good lifespan out of the batteries? Greg On Aug 27, 2009, at 1:22 AM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Here is the graph straight from the charge monitor for our solar panels, to give you an idea what the charging pattern looks like. This is for a pair of 60w panels. http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Hogback/ graph_image1.png.html Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Christopher Erickson wrote: First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above the Arctic circle. And even then, that only happens for a few days of the year. Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes. For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage, Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only around 60 degrees up in the sky. And below about 25 degrees, there isn't any charging going on at all. So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning, peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon. The math is more complicated than it first appears. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Exactly. But I think he meant that in a 33 day period he only needed 24 hours of sun which comes out to be less than an hour a day. I think his math is flawed (perhaps calculating watts instead of watt hours) but I think that's what he meant. Getting 24 hours of sun in a 33 day period is probably doable even in Seattle but it's the wrong calculation. I think he needs a lot more than 24 hours of sun in a 33 day period. Greg On Aug 27, 2009, at 1:27 AM, Christopher Erickson wrote: Could be but that isn't right either. 24 hours of daylight is not the same as 24 hours of full current charging. The Sun rises and the Sun sets. Latitude and seasons aside, an 80 watt panel is only going to give about 450 watt-hours a day at absolute best. -Christopher Erickson -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I don't think his 24 hours of sun number meant in one 24 hour period. I think he meant 24 hours of sun cumulative over 33 days. No? Greg On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:01 AM, Christopher Erickson wrote: First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above the Arctic circle. And even then, that only happens for a few days of the year. Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes. For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage, Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only around 60 degrees up in the sky. And below about 25 degrees, there isn't any charging going on at all. So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning, peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon. The math is more complicated than it first appears. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] solar site
The way I understood it was if out of 799.2 hour span (33.3 days * 24 hours/day) there was 24 hours of sunlight. Meaning for every ~800 hours at least 24 of them the sun was in the air hitting the solar panel. The other 776 was darkness. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:57 AM, Christopher Erickson christopher.k.erick...@gmail.com wrote: Could be but that isn't right either. 24 hours of daylight is not the same as 24 hours of full current charging. The Sun rises and the Sun sets. Latitude and seasons aside, an 80 watt panel is only going to give about 450 watt-hours a day at absolute best. -Christopher Erickson -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I don't think his 24 hours of sun number meant in one 24 hour period. I think he meant 24 hours of sun cumulative over 33 days. No? Greg On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:01 AM, Christopher Erickson wrote: First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above the Arctic circle. And even then, that only happens for a few days of the year. Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes. For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage, Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only around 60 degrees up in the sky. And below about 25 degrees, there isn't any charging going on at all. So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning, peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon. The math is more complicated than it first appears. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Chuck, Current and average are int he 100s yet max is 5.7? When in the world could the amps be 127 or 929?! Secondly, how are the amps negative? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: We're in KY. I'm still not convinced if we are in the right location for solar vs utility company. Getting an electrical drop depends on the location, but if you can I think it is worth going that route rather than putting in solar. You will have less long term headaches. These two graphs represent the solar output of two sites. One needs another solar panel to keep up (it has a windmill, but that isn't helping enough), but the other seems to be ok. As you can see we have full sun at one location approximately 7hrs per day (too many trees), and at the other location it's more like 10 hrs. I highly recommend you be prepared to do some type of monitoring like this if you do solar. That way you know if you are going to lose power. We also monitor current voltage level as well. We use 24V at all our locations. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
When it is in the negative, we are not generating enough solar power to power the equipment. I think it is a -.97844, and an average of -.15677. Like I said, at that site where it is negative we have to go and charge the batteries with a generator every so often. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Chuck, Current and average are int he 100s yet max is 5.7? When in the world could the amps be 127 or 929?! Secondly, how are the amps negative? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: We're in KY. I'm still not convinced if we are in the right location for solar vs utility company. Getting an electrical drop depends on the location, but if you can I think it is worth going that route rather than putting in solar. You will have less long term headaches. These two graphs represent the solar output of two sites. One needs another solar panel to keep up (it has a windmill, but that isn't helping enough), but the other seems to be ok. As you can see we have full sun at one location approximately 7hrs per day (too many trees), and at the other location it's more like 10 hrs. I highly recommend you be prepared to do some type of monitoring like this if you do solar. That way you know if you are going to lose power. We also monitor current voltage level as well. We use 24V at all our locations. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I think that's why they developed the sun hour maps I referenced earlier. They just tell you what to expect in your area for sun hours a day. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Christopher Erickson christopher.k.erick...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:57 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Could be but that isn't right either. 24 hours of daylight is not the same as 24 hours of full current charging. The Sun rises and the Sun sets. Latitude and seasons aside, an 80 watt panel is only going to give about 450 watt-hours a day at absolute best. -Christopher Erickson -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I don't think his 24 hours of sun number meant in one 24 hour period. I think he meant 24 hours of sun cumulative over 33 days. No? Greg On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:01 AM, Christopher Erickson wrote: First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above the Arctic circle. And even then, that only happens for a few days of the year. Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes. For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage, Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only around 60 degrees up in the sky. And below about 25 degrees, there isn't any charging going on at all. So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning, peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon. The math is more complicated than it first appears. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Good information http://www.solar4power.com/solar-power-sizing.html - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I think that's why they developed the sun hour maps I referenced earlier. They just tell you what to expect in your area for sun hours a day. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Christopher Erickson christopher.k.erick...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:57 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Could be but that isn't right either. 24 hours of daylight is not the same as 24 hours of full current charging. The Sun rises and the Sun sets. Latitude and seasons aside, an 80 watt panel is only going to give about 450 watt-hours a day at absolute best. -Christopher Erickson -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I don't think his 24 hours of sun number meant in one 24 hour period. I think he meant 24 hours of sun cumulative over 33 days. No? Greg On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:01 AM, Christopher Erickson wrote: First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above the Arctic circle. And even then, that only happens for a few days of the year. Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes. For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage, Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only around 60 degrees up in the sky. And below about 25 degrees, there isn't any charging going on at all. So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning, peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon. The math is more complicated than it first appears. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Instead of talking 33.3 days and 24 hours of sun, let's just take an average day. At optimal output, and for the sake of argument, let's say our 60W rated panels only produce 45W; optimally. Let's lob off 12% of that to satisfy the naysayers and devil's advocates, and to account for inefficiencies. We have a power output of close enough to 40W. Not all can do it, but for the short run repeater, and with two radios, let's say we run it at 12V, while loosing less heat at the voltage regulator on the radio. Since we're rounding numbers, we'll call that 3.3A. The radios require .8A. During optimal conditions, there are 2.5A free to charge the battery. On our average day, we have 6 hours of optimal sun, maybe more, maybe less. We have gained 15AH of charge to send to our battery. For 3 more hours of the day we will receive less than optimal output -- 2.5A, for another gain of 5.1AH. We now have 20.1AH more than we need to run the radios. We will get another hour of diminished 1A or less output but will not consider that here. So, during our 24 hours, we are either generating enough, or excess for 9 hours. We have to store power for the 15 hours where our system is not generating power. We have to provide 12AH for dark time. We have already generated an excess of 20.1AH. We can provide 8.11AH on our average day to keep our battery charged. If the 12V storage battery is capable of 800AH, and it is topped off with our system it CAN keep the repeater going for 41 days. If you monitor battery condition, you should be able to see a net loss coming way before it shuts down the repeater. Assumptions: We are using efficient radios capable of running at 12V or less. Let's say both are Atheros based Deliberant radios. The CAT5 run to our radios is insignificant, and not some 200' run. Hams, geeks and wisp owners are cut from similar cloth. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Agreed. Also two 6 volt golf cart batteries are quite a bit superior to two 12 volt deep cycle batteries. The plates are just too thin in 12V automotive/marine sized batteries to provide long life with deep cycling. And 6v golf cart batteries come in different Ah ratings from about 95 to about 170. The CostCo 6V batts are the best Ah bang for the buck but they are closer to the 95Ah end of the spectrum than the 170Ah end. Basically, it is economy versus volume and availability. Trojan has a great reputation for making high-quality, high Ah 6V golf cart batteries. And in lead-acid, NiMH and NiCad cells, the last 20% of charge between 80% and 100% uses a lot more power to put in than the previous 80%. This means the best and most efficient range of charge on a battery in off-grid, cycle service (versus float service, like in a UPS) is to work the battery between about 25% at minimum charge, up to 80% charge. Don't even bother with the last 20%. And solar/wind/etc. chargers that are capable of monitoring battery temperature are the ONLY way to go, to prevent over charging, damaging the batteries and shortening their service life. And wind chargers usually don't last long in climates that are subject to seasonal icing conditions. The blades get iced, get imbalanced and then tear the wind generator bearings to bits over time. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Terry Hickey Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Good information http://www.solar4power.com/solar-power-sizing.html - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I think that's why they developed the sun hour maps I referenced earlier. They just tell you what to expect in your area for sun hours a day. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Christopher Erickson christopher.k.erick...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:57 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Could be but that isn't right either. 24 hours of daylight is not the same as 24 hours of full current charging. The Sun rises and the Sun sets. Latitude and seasons aside, an 80 watt panel is only going to give about 450 watt-hours a day at absolute best. -Christopher Erickson -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I don't think his 24 hours of sun number meant in one 24 hour period. I think he meant 24 hours of sun cumulative over 33 days. No? Greg On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:01 AM, Christopher Erickson wrote: First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above the Arctic circle. And even then, that only happens for a few days of the year. Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes. For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage, Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only around 60 degrees up in the sky. And below about 25 degrees, there isn't any charging going on at all. So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning, peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon. The math is more complicated than it first appears. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24
Re: [WISPA] solar site
All this fuzzy math about hours of sun in 33.3 days is useless and not the way the calculators work. If you are consuming 12w and generating 60w (4 toy panels), here's some math. 288w/day (12x24) load. According to the sun maps, we are in the 4 hour of sun (average!) area according to the sun calculation charts. (Maine). This means 240w/day (60x4) generated. In such as case, if it's working, you are either running partly on existing battery charge, getting lucky with sunny weather, or not actually drawing 12w load. Provide some overhead for charging, charging inneficiencies, cable loss, charge controller loss, bad weather. What percent overhead is based on how conservative the calculator is. If it's expensive to visit the site, go extra conservative. I really like to see the batteries fully charged as much as possible. If you have batteries that stay fully charged most of the time, they won't freeze when it's -20f. My extra recommended 40w will help the batteries to stay fully charged and provide the overhead your calculations are missing. In cold weather, the AH capacity of the battery shrinks as well. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:05:33PM -0500, Mike wrote: I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Do the math on the worst case scenario. What kind of values do you need for the bad days - assuming you get a minimal charge during cloudy days, how long does the few hours of that charge last? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:45 PM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: All this fuzzy math about hours of sun in 33.3 days is useless and not the way the calculators work. If you are consuming 12w and generating 60w (4 toy panels), here's some math. 288w/day (12x24) load. According to the sun maps, we are in the 4 hour of sun (average!) area according to the sun calculation charts. (Maine). This means 240w/day (60x4) generated. In such as case, if it's working, you are either running partly on existing battery charge, getting lucky with sunny weather, or not actually drawing 12w load. Provide some overhead for charging, charging inneficiencies, cable loss, charge controller loss, bad weather. What percent overhead is based on how conservative the calculator is. If it's expensive to visit the site, go extra conservative. I really like to see the batteries fully charged as much as possible. If you have batteries that stay fully charged most of the time, they won't freeze when it's -20f. My extra recommended 40w will help the batteries to stay fully charged and provide the overhead your calculations are missing. In cold weather, the AH capacity of the battery shrinks as well. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:05:33PM -0500, Mike wrote: I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I have designed a fair number of off-grid radio sites and in general, I have come up with a few additional guidelines. 1. Have enough battery capacity to run for 7 days with zero charging. This will give you a window of response time if the charging system suffers a failure (or theft/vandalism) or there is an extended episode of inclement weather. 2. Avoid as many power conversions as possible. 3. Avoid any equipment that has a built-in cooling fan. 4. 48 volt power systems are more efficient than 24 volt power systems are more efficient than 12 volt power systems. 5. Avoid inverters and equipment that is 120VAC only. 6. Don't forget to consider environmental issues and projected temperature extremes. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Instead of talking 33.3 days and 24 hours of sun, let's just take an average day. At optimal output, and for the sake of argument, let's say our 60W rated panels only produce 45W; optimally. Let's lob off 12% of that to satisfy the naysayers and devil's advocates, and to account for inefficiencies. We have a power output of close enough to 40W. Not all can do it, but for the short run repeater, and with two radios, let's say we run it at 12V, while loosing less heat at the voltage regulator on the radio. Since we're rounding numbers, we'll call that 3.3A. The radios require .8A. During optimal conditions, there are 2.5A free to charge the battery. On our average day, we have 6 hours of optimal sun, maybe more, maybe less. We have gained 15AH of charge to send to our battery. For 3 more hours of the day we will receive less than optimal output -- 2.5A, for another gain of 5.1AH. We now have 20.1AH more than we need to run the radios. We will get another hour of diminished 1A or less output but will not consider that here. So, during our 24 hours, we are either generating enough, or excess for 9 hours. We have to store power for the 15 hours where our system is not generating power. We have to provide 12AH for dark time. We have already generated an excess of 20.1AH. We can provide 8.11AH on our average day to keep our battery charged. If the 12V storage battery is capable of 800AH, and it is topped off with our system it CAN keep the repeater going for 41 days. If you monitor battery condition, you should be able to see a net loss coming way before it shuts down the repeater. Assumptions: We are using efficient radios capable of running at 12V or less. Let's say both are Atheros based Deliberant radios. The CAT5 run to our radios is insignificant, and not some 200' run. Hams, geeks and wisp owners are cut from similar cloth. Mike -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Chris, Re #4: Is that because the usable voltage? Ie: 11.2V of 12, 18 of 24? 36-38 of 48? Are these close to correct for std POE? Or what WISP's use? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I have designed a fair number of off-grid radio sites and in general, I have come up with a few additional guidelines. 1. Have enough battery capacity to run for 7 days with zero charging. This will give you a window of response time if the charging system suffers a failure (or theft/vandalism) or there is an extended episode of inclement weather. 2. Avoid as many power conversions as possible. 3. Avoid any equipment that has a built-in cooling fan. 4. 48 volt power systems are more efficient than 24 volt power systems are more efficient than 12 volt power systems. 5. Avoid inverters and equipment that is 120VAC only. 6. Don't forget to consider environmental issues and projected temperature extremes. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Instead of talking 33.3 days and 24 hours of sun, let's just take an average day. At optimal output, and for the sake of argument, let's say our 60W rated panels only produce 45W; optimally. Let's lob off 12% of that to satisfy the naysayers and devil's advocates, and to account for inefficiencies. We have a power output of close enough to 40W. Not all can do it, but for the short run repeater, and with two radios, let's say we run it at 12V, while loosing less heat at the voltage regulator on the radio. Since we're rounding numbers, we'll call that 3.3A. The radios require .8A. During optimal conditions, there are 2.5A free to charge the battery. On our average day, we have 6 hours of optimal sun, maybe more, maybe less. We have gained 15AH of charge to send to our battery. For 3 more hours of the day we will receive less than optimal output -- 2.5A, for another gain of 5.1AH. We now have 20.1AH more than we need to run the radios. We will get another hour of diminished 1A or less output but will not consider that here. So, during our 24 hours, we are either generating enough, or excess for 9 hours. We have to store power for the 15 hours where our system is not generating power. We have to provide 12AH for dark time. We have already generated an excess of 20.1AH. We can provide 8.11AH on our average day to keep our battery charged. If the 12V storage battery is capable of 800AH, and it is topped off with our system it CAN keep the repeater going for 41 days. If you monitor battery condition, you should be able to see a net loss coming way before it shuts down the repeater. Assumptions: We are using efficient radios capable of running at 12V or less. Let's say both are Atheros based Deliberant radios. The CAT5 run to our radios is insignificant, and not some 200' run. Hams, geeks and wisp owners are cut from similar cloth. Mike -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
* 48 volt power system (actually -48VDC) is a telco standard and there is a LOT of carrier-class telecom equipment and charging systems designed to operate on that voltage. Especially a lot of remote management control and monitoring stuff. * For the same watts, when voltage goes up, amperage goes down. This means less percentage energy loss from voltage drop in wiring and the ability to use smaller gauge wire for power. * Using high-efficiency Picoverters to power 12VDC and 24VDC devices from 48VDC means that your 12VDC devices can still operate reliably when the 48VDC battery plant is down to near exhaustion. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:09 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Chris, Re #4: Is that because the usable voltage? Ie: 11.2V of 12, 18 of 24? 36-38 of 48? Are these close to correct for std POE? Or what WISP's use? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I have designed a fair number of off-grid radio sites and in general, I have come up with a few additional guidelines. 1. Have enough battery capacity to run for 7 days with zero charging. This will give you a window of response time if the charging system suffers a failure (or theft/vandalism) or there is an extended episode of inclement weather. 2. Avoid as many power conversions as possible. 3. Avoid any equipment that has a built-in cooling fan. 4. 48 volt power systems are more efficient than 24 volt power systems are more efficient than 12 volt power systems. 5. Avoid inverters and equipment that is 120VAC only. 6. Don't forget to consider environmental issues and projected temperature extremes. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Instead of talking 33.3 days and 24 hours of sun, let's just take an average day. At optimal output, and for the sake of argument, let's say our 60W rated panels only produce 45W; optimally. Let's lob off 12% of that to satisfy the naysayers and devil's advocates, and to account for inefficiencies. We have a power output of close enough to 40W. Not all can do it, but for the short run repeater, and with two radios, let's say we run it at 12V, while loosing less heat at the voltage regulator on the radio. Since we're rounding numbers, we'll call that 3.3A. The radios require .8A. During optimal conditions, there are 2.5A free to charge the battery. On our average day, we have 6 hours of optimal sun, maybe more, maybe less. We have gained 15AH of charge to send to our battery. For 3 more hours of the day we will receive less than optimal output -- 2.5A, for another gain of 5.1AH. We now have 20.1AH more than we need to run the radios. We will get another hour of diminished 1A or less output but will not consider that here. So, during our 24 hours, we are either generating enough, or excess for 9 hours. We have to store power for the 15 hours where our system is not generating power. We have to provide 12AH for dark time. We have already generated an excess of 20.1AH. We can provide 8.11AH on our average day to keep our battery charged. If the 12V storage battery is capable of 800AH, and it is topped off with our system it CAN keep the repeater going for 41 days. If you monitor battery condition, you should be able to see a net loss coming way before it shuts down the repeater. Assumptions: We are using efficient radios capable of running at 12V or less. Let's say both are Atheros based Deliberant radios. The CAT5 run to our radios is insignificant, and not some 200' run. Hams, geeks and wisp owners are cut from similar cloth. Mike -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Thank you Chris for a great explanation! But it brings to mind two more questions (I know, I'm a PITA) Do Picoverters have much loss? ( I think I know inverters lose 20% or more ) And what is 'near exhaustion' on a 48 vdc plant? ( I'm assuming 4 12 volt batteries or 8 6 volt golf cart batteries ) Say a piconverter running 48 to 24vdc, how low can the input voltage go and it still supply 24 volts to a 4 radio board? I'm asking this question because we currently have a very well operating solar site with 2 deep cycle marine batteries, running 24vdc direct POE. Now on a new site, would using a 48 to 24vdc option, would it extend our dark / foggy day capacity appreciably? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC cprof...@cv-access.com Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site * 48 volt power system (actually -48VDC) is a telco standard and there is a LOT of carrier-class telecom equipment and charging systems designed to operate on that voltage. Especially a lot of remote management control and monitoring stuff. * For the same watts, when voltage goes up, amperage goes down. This means less percentage energy loss from voltage drop in wiring and the ability to use smaller gauge wire for power. * Using high-efficiency Picoverters to power 12VDC and 24VDC devices from 48VDC means that your 12VDC devices can still operate reliably when the 48VDC battery plant is down to near exhaustion. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:09 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Chris, Re #4: Is that because the usable voltage? Ie: 11.2V of 12, 18 of 24? 36-38 of 48? Are these close to correct for std POE? Or what WISP's use? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I have designed a fair number of off-grid radio sites and in general, I have come up with a few additional guidelines. 1. Have enough battery capacity to run for 7 days with zero charging. This will give you a window of response time if the charging system suffers a failure (or theft/vandalism) or there is an extended episode of inclement weather. 2. Avoid as many power conversions as possible. 3. Avoid any equipment that has a built-in cooling fan. 4. 48 volt power systems are more efficient than 24 volt power systems are more efficient than 12 volt power systems. 5. Avoid inverters and equipment that is 120VAC only. 6. Don't forget to consider environmental issues and projected temperature extremes. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Instead of talking 33.3 days and 24 hours of sun, let's just take an average day. At optimal output, and for the sake of argument, let's say our 60W rated panels only produce 45W; optimally. Let's lob off 12% of that to satisfy the naysayers and devil's advocates, and to account for inefficiencies. We have a power output of close enough to 40W. Not all can do it, but for the short run repeater, and with two radios, let's say we run it at 12V, while loosing less heat at the voltage regulator on the radio. Since we're rounding numbers, we'll call that 3.3A. The radios require .8A. During optimal conditions, there are 2.5A free to charge the battery. On our average day, we have 6 hours of optimal sun, maybe more, maybe less. We have gained 15AH of charge to send to our battery. For 3 more hours of the day we will receive less than optimal output -- 2.5A, for another gain of 5.1AH. We now have 20.1AH more than we need to run the radios. We will get another hour of diminished 1A or less output but will not consider that here. So, during our 24 hours, we are either generating enough, or excess for 9 hours. We have to store power for the 15 hours where our system is not generating power. We have to provide 12AH for dark time. We have already generated an excess of 20.1AH. We
Re: [WISPA] solar site
But isn't your panel expense 2 to 4 times as much? I looked at powering some Tropos and Cisco mesh with solar and compared 48v with 12 volt. The 12 volt used a really high efficiency inverter to 120v and then to the radio. It was less than half the overall cost of the 48v system. Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site * 48 volt power system (actually -48VDC) is a telco standard and there is a LOT of carrier-class telecom equipment and charging systems designed to operate on that voltage. Especially a lot of remote management control and monitoring stuff. * For the same watts, when voltage goes up, amperage goes down. This means less percentage energy loss from voltage drop in wiring and the ability to use smaller gauge wire for power. * Using high-efficiency Picoverters to power 12VDC and 24VDC devices from 48VDC means that your 12VDC devices can still operate reliably when the 48VDC battery plant is down to near exhaustion. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:09 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Chris, Re #4: Is that because the usable voltage? Ie: 11.2V of 12, 18 of 24? 36-38 of 48? Are these close to correct for std POE? Or what WISP's use? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I have designed a fair number of off-grid radio sites and in general, I have come up with a few additional guidelines. 1. Have enough battery capacity to run for 7 days with zero charging. This will give you a window of response time if the charging system suffers a failure (or theft/vandalism) or there is an extended episode of inclement weather. 2. Avoid as many power conversions as possible. 3. Avoid any equipment that has a built-in cooling fan. 4. 48 volt power systems are more efficient than 24 volt power systems are more efficient than 12 volt power systems. 5. Avoid inverters and equipment that is 120VAC only. 6. Don't forget to consider environmental issues and projected temperature extremes. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Instead of talking 33.3 days and 24 hours of sun, let's just take an average day. At optimal output, and for the sake of argument, let's say our 60W rated panels only produce 45W; optimally. Let's lob off 12% of that to satisfy the naysayers and devil's advocates, and to account for inefficiencies. We have a power output of close enough to 40W. Not all can do it, but for the short run repeater, and with two radios, let's say we run it at 12V, while loosing less heat at the voltage regulator on the radio. Since we're rounding numbers, we'll call that 3.3A. The radios require .8A. During optimal conditions, there are 2.5A free to charge the battery. On our average day, we have 6 hours of optimal sun, maybe more, maybe less. We have gained 15AH of charge to send to our battery. For 3 more hours of the day we will receive less than optimal output -- 2.5A, for another gain of 5.1AH. We now have 20.1AH more than we need to run the radios. We will get another hour of diminished 1A or less output but will not consider that here. So, during our 24 hours, we are either generating enough, or excess for 9 hours. We have to store power for the 15 hours where our system is not generating power. We have to provide 12AH for dark time. We have already generated an excess of 20.1AH. We can provide 8.11AH on our average day to keep our battery charged. If the 12V storage battery is capable of 800AH, and it is topped off with our system it CAN keep the repeater going for 41 days. If you monitor battery condition, you should be able to see a net loss coming way before it shuts down the repeater. Assumptions: We are using efficient radios capable of running at 12V or less. Let's say both are Atheros based Deliberant radios. The CAT5 run to our radios is insignificant
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Here is the info on the Picoverters and other high efficiency converters from RO Associates: http://www.roassoc.com Average efficiency of about 87%. I wish it were 97%. Adding more 6V batts for more overall watt-hours of capacity will be the best way to extend run time. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:18 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Thank you Chris for a great explanation! But it brings to mind two more questions (I know, I'm a PITA) Do Picoverters have much loss? ( I think I know inverters lose 20% or more ) And what is 'near exhaustion' on a 48 vdc plant? ( I'm assuming 4 12 volt batteries or 8 6 volt golf cart batteries ) Say a piconverter running 48 to 24vdc, how low can the input voltage go and it still supply 24 volts to a 4 radio board? I'm asking this question because we currently have a very well operating solar site with 2 deep cycle marine batteries, running 24vdc direct POE. Now on a new site, would using a 48 to 24vdc option, would it extend our dark / foggy day capacity appreciably? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC cprof...@cv-access.com Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site * 48 volt power system (actually -48VDC) is a telco standard and there is a LOT of carrier-class telecom equipment and charging systems designed to operate on that voltage. Especially a lot of remote management control and monitoring stuff. * For the same watts, when voltage goes up, amperage goes down. This means less percentage energy loss from voltage drop in wiring and the ability to use smaller gauge wire for power. * Using high-efficiency Picoverters to power 12VDC and 24VDC devices from 48VDC means that your 12VDC devices can still operate reliably when the 48VDC battery plant is down to near exhaustion. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:09 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Chris, Re #4: Is that because the usable voltage? Ie: 11.2V of 12, 18 of 24? 36-38 of 48? Are these close to correct for std POE? Or what WISP's use? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I have designed a fair number of off-grid radio sites and in general, I have come up with a few additional guidelines. 1. Have enough battery capacity to run for 7 days with zero charging. This will give you a window of response time if the charging system suffers a failure (or theft/vandalism) or there is an extended episode of inclement weather. 2. Avoid as many power conversions as possible. 3. Avoid any equipment that has a built-in cooling fan. 4. 48 volt power systems are more efficient than 24 volt power systems are more efficient than 12 volt power systems. 5. Avoid inverters and equipment that is 120VAC only. 6. Don't forget to consider environmental issues and projected temperature extremes. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Instead of talking 33.3 days and 24 hours of sun, let's just take an average day. At optimal output, and for the sake of argument, let's say our 60W rated panels only produce 45W; optimally. Let's lob off 12% of that to satisfy the naysayers and devil's advocates, and to account for inefficiencies. We have a power output of close enough to 40W. Not all can do it, but for the short run repeater, and with two radios, let's say we run it at 12V, while loosing less heat at the voltage regulator on the radio. Since we're
Re: [WISPA] solar site
48VDC equipment is almost always carrier-class and that is where the expense is. That isn't quite the same as having a 48VDC power plant with non carrier-class equipment running on it. What is really absurd is converting a 12/24/48VDC battery plant to 120VAC to feed a piece of equipment that is going to convert it back down to 5VDC and 12VDC using a reasonably reliable but highly inefficient computer type switching power supply. Cisco and Motorola make some of the most power-inefficient networking and radio equipment on the market. No big deal when you are on the grid. But a real big deal when you are not. I guess off-grid sites are just too tiny a portion of their market to worry about. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of ralph Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site But isn't your panel expense 2 to 4 times as much? I looked at powering some Tropos and Cisco mesh with solar and compared 48v with 12 volt. The 12 volt used a really high efficiency inverter to 120v and then to the radio. It was less than half the overall cost of the 48v system. Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site * 48 volt power system (actually -48VDC) is a telco standard and there is a LOT of carrier-class telecom equipment and charging systems designed to operate on that voltage. Especially a lot of remote management control and monitoring stuff. * For the same watts, when voltage goes up, amperage goes down. This means less percentage energy loss from voltage drop in wiring and the ability to use smaller gauge wire for power. * Using high-efficiency Picoverters to power 12VDC and 24VDC devices from 48VDC means that your 12VDC devices can still operate reliably when the 48VDC battery plant is down to near exhaustion. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:09 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Chris, Re #4: Is that because the usable voltage? Ie: 11.2V of 12, 18 of 24? 36-38 of 48? Are these close to correct for std POE? Or what WISP's use? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I have designed a fair number of off-grid radio sites and in general, I have come up with a few additional guidelines. 1. Have enough battery capacity to run for 7 days with zero charging. This will give you a window of response time if the charging system suffers a failure (or theft/vandalism) or there is an extended episode of inclement weather. 2. Avoid as many power conversions as possible. 3. Avoid any equipment that has a built-in cooling fan. 4. 48 volt power systems are more efficient than 24 volt power systems are more efficient than 12 volt power systems. 5. Avoid inverters and equipment that is 120VAC only. 6. Don't forget to consider environmental issues and projected temperature extremes. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Instead of talking 33.3 days and 24 hours of sun, let's just take an average day. At optimal output, and for the sake of argument, let's say our 60W rated panels only produce 45W; optimally. Let's lob off 12% of that to satisfy the naysayers and devil's advocates, and to account for inefficiencies. We have a power output of close enough to 40W. Not all can do it, but for the short run repeater, and with two radios, let's say we run it at 12V, while loosing less heat at the voltage regulator on the radio. Since we're rounding numbers, we'll call that 3.3A. The radios require .8A. During optimal conditions, there are 2.5A free
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Hey Marlon, I have an employee that has this exact setup and has been running it for 2 years with no problems. Contact me offlist if you would like his name and number. I'm sure he would be glad to talk with you. Steve Pocketinet, Inc. st...@pocketinet.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:10 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: Principal WISPA Member List; isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] solar site Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.62/2315 - Release Date: 08/24/09 12:55:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Wonder Pole? Please tell me more! Mike wrote: This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies 2.5 Amp in good sun. The 800 Amp hour battery will run it for 800 hours? Mike At 08:04 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the "fully charged" light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
http://www.wonderpole.com/wp640_630.html I have had very good service from this device. Don't over-tighten the section rings in the field unless you have a pair of channel locks with you. Don't ask me how I know that. At 01:59 AM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Wonder Pole? Please tell me more! Mike wrote: This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies 2.5 Amp in good sun. The 800 Amp hour battery will run it for 800 hours? Mike At 08:04 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike mailto:m...@aweiowa.comm...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelesshttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelesshttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out http://www.info-ed.com/wireless.htmlwww.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelesshttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I'd love to add that to my trailer. What is the make? At 11:36 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: That sounds like great public service and a way to get recognized too! If you want to see something that really gets attention, have a look at my site survey/portable AP rig. http://ralphfowler.com I have been reluctant to put signs on it though, for obvious reasons. (people already think I am toting a rocket launcher) LOL Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:57 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies 2.5 Amp in good sun. The 800 Amp hour battery will run it for 800 hours? Mike At 08:04 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Were you speaking of the pneumatic mast in my pics, or of the wonder pole? Mine is a Wil-burt or Wilburt and they cost a bunch- like $5,000.00 new. But since the DTV rollout is complete, there should be surplus ENG trucks around with these masts. The TV stations started keeping their old trucks to use for testing. I actually had one given to me complete with pole and generator. I could not go get it and the station decided to keep it for DTV testing. Call around to your local stations and ask about surplus ENG trucks. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'd love to add that to my trailer. What is the make? At 11:36 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: That sounds like great public service and a way to get recognized too! If you want to see something that really gets attention, have a look at my site survey/portable AP rig. http://ralphfowler.com I have been reluctant to put signs on it though, for obvious reasons. (people already think I am toting a rocket launcher) LOL Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:57 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies 2.5 Amp in good sun. The 800 Amp hour battery will run it for 800 hours? Mike At 08:04 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. --- - WISPA
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Would the wonder pole handle a wind load of an NS2/Canopy? What about a massive Arc MT combo? How do you mount the base? Can this be made mobile/temporary? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:55 AM, ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Were you speaking of the pneumatic mast in my pics, or of the wonder pole? Mine is a Wil-burt or Wilburt and they cost a bunch- like $5,000.00 new. But since the DTV rollout is complete, there should be surplus ENG trucks around with these masts. The TV stations started keeping their old trucks to use for testing. I actually had one given to me complete with pole and generator. I could not go get it and the station decided to keep it for DTV testing. Call around to your local stations and ask about surplus ENG trucks. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'd love to add that to my trailer. What is the make? At 11:36 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: That sounds like great public service and a way to get recognized too! If you want to see something that really gets attention, have a look at my site survey/portable AP rig. http://ralphfowler.com I have been reluctant to put signs on it though, for obvious reasons. (people already think I am toting a rocket launcher) LOL Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:57 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies 2.5 Amp in good sun. The 800 Amp hour battery will run it for 800 hours? Mike At 08:04 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] solar site
The solar list that I participate in recommend not using the charge controller included in that kit as it is junk. They always recommend MorningStar for like $60.00. Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was going to ask about this. Harbor freight has a set of 3 on sale for 199 with controller and a few other goodies. I keep meaning to go get some before they go off sale again (I may be too late already) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was shocked to find the 15W panels at Northern for $79.00. I ordered some and they work great. You need a charge controller, $45.00 to keep the batteries from over charging. You have to get creative with uni-strut and angle iron to make your own mount, or buy them. Batteries are the biggest expense. So to answer your question, yes. At 11:29 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Thanks What do they say about the panels themselves? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site The solar list that I participate in recommend not using the charge controller included in that kit as it is junk. They always recommend MorningStar for like $60.00. Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was going to ask about this. Harbor freight has a set of 3 on sale for 199 with controller and a few other goodies. I keep meaning to go get some before they go off sale again (I may be too late already) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was shocked to find the 15W panels at Northern for $79.00. I ordered some and they work great. You need a charge controller, $45.00 to keep the batteries from over charging. You have to get creative with uni-strut and angle iron to make your own mount, or buy them. Batteries are the biggest expense. So to answer your question, yes. At 11:29 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
It depends on how high you push it up. I *HAVE* had it all the way up with a 12 panel, low wind condition, one person on the ground and the other sitting on the gable end of a roof for testing. The top two sections get a little wispy (pun intended) for big panels, or to leave up. I regularly put it 20' - 26' and leave it with a panel attached. They sell a drive-on mount with a socket for holding it. I just mounted mine through the trailer side with one of those nice alloy dish mounts so I can rotate it to about 45 degrees for transport. When I set it up, I rotate upright, put the end into a socket I made from one of those floor PVC toilet bowl flanges. Eyeball along a building or vertical surface in two planes and you get the whole thing somewhat vertical. Above the mount, on the side of the trailer, I put two stainless eye bolts. Once I get the mast vertical, I put a custom fitted piece of wood with an arc cut in the end to fit the pole, between the pole and trailer and lash it with a bungy cord. Gives it a third attachment point along the trailer side; ground, middle, near the top. It's raining pretty hard right now or I'd take a picture. I can set it up on Friday in about 20 minutes at the market. At 08:03 AM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Would the wonder pole handle a wind load of an NS2/Canopy? What about a massive Arc MT combo? How do you mount the base? Can this be made mobile/temporary? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:55 AM, ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Were you speaking of the pneumatic mast in my pics, or of the wonder pole? Mine is a Wil-burt or Wilburt and they cost a bunch- like $5,000.00 new. But since the DTV rollout is complete, there should be surplus ENG trucks around with these masts. The TV stations started keeping their old trucks to use for testing. I actually had one given to me complete with pole and generator. I could not go get it and the station decided to keep it for DTV testing. Call around to your local stations and ask about surplus ENG trucks. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'd love to add that to my trailer. What is the make? At 11:36 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: That sounds like great public service and a way to get recognized too! If you want to see something that really gets attention, have a look at my site survey/portable AP rig. http://ralphfowler.com I have been reluctant to put signs on it though, for obvious reasons. (people already think I am toting a rocket launcher) LOL Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:57 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies 2.5 Amp in good sun. The 800 Amp hour battery will run it for 800 hours? Mike At 08:04 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase
Re: [WISPA] solar site
The solar panels look just like the $79.00 Northern ones. I am curious how they built the PVC frame. Not a bad deal considering it also has the controller *AND* an inverter you could keep in the truck to power your laptop charger. 60 watts is probably overkill for most of our applications except Marlon's. :-) You could even wire the four of them series/parallel to get 24V for a long CAT5 run. This stuff has really come down in price the past few months thanks to the Northern/Home Depot/Harbor Freight Chinese importers. This IS a deal maker for those remote repeater sites some of us have been contemplating. Yes Marlon, you CAN solar power a site for less than $500.00 if you're willing to do some creative work. Gotta love it. At 08:43 AM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Home depot's site. go figure. $329 a Solar Back Up Kit (as they call it.) 60 Watts. $329 http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051langId=-1catalogId=10053productId=100658288 Mike wrote: It depends on how high you push it up. I *HAVE* had it all the way up with a 12 panel, low wind condition, one person on the ground and the other sitting on the gable end of a roof for testing. The top two sections get a little wispy (pun intended) for big panels, or to leave up. I regularly put it 20' - 26' and leave it with a panel attached. They sell a drive-on mount with a socket for holding it. I just mounted mine through the trailer side with one of those nice alloy dish mounts so I can rotate it to about 45 degrees for transport. When I set it up, I rotate upright, put the end into a socket I made from one of those floor PVC toilet bowl flanges. Eyeball along a building or vertical surface in two planes and you get the whole thing somewhat vertical. Above the mount, on the side of the trailer, I put two stainless eye bolts. Once I get the mast vertical, I put a custom fitted piece of wood with an arc cut in the end to fit the pole, between the pole and trailer and lash it with a bungy cord. Gives it a third attachment point along the trailer side; ground, middle, near the top. It's raining pretty hard right now or I'd take a picture. I can set it up on Friday in about 20 minutes at the market. At 08:03 AM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Would the wonder pole handle a wind load of an NS2/Canopy? What about a massive Arc MT combo? How do you mount the base? Can this be made mobile/temporary? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:55 AM, ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Were you speaking of the pneumatic mast in my pics, or of the wonder pole? Mine is a Wil-burt or Wilburt and they cost a bunch- like $5,000.00 new. But since the DTV rollout is complete, there should be surplus ENG trucks around with these masts. The TV stations started keeping their old trucks to use for testing. I actually had one given to me complete with pole and generator. I could not go get it and the station decided to keep it for DTV testing. Call around to your local stations and ask about surplus ENG trucks. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'd love to add that to my trailer. What is the make? At 11:36 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: That sounds like great public service and a way to get recognized too! If you want to see something that really gets attention, have a look at my site survey/portable AP rig. http://ralphfowler.com I have been reluctant to put signs on it though, for obvious reasons. (people already think I am toting a rocket launcher) LOL Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:57 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies
Re: [WISPA] solar site
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CIADLG?ie=UTF8tag=remyfu-20linkCode=as2camp=1789creative=390957creativeASIN=B000CIADLG - Original Message - From: Curtis Maurand cmaur...@xyonet.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Home depot's site. go figure. $329 a Solar Back Up Kit (as they call it.) 60 Watts. $329 http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051langId=-1catalogId=10053productId=100658288 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Home depot's site. go figure. $329 a Solar Back Up Kit (as they call it.) 60 Watts. $329 http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051langId=-1catalogId=10053productId=100658288 Mike wrote: It depends on how high you push it up. I *HAVE* had it all the way up with a 12 panel, low wind condition, one person on the ground and the other sitting on the gable end of a roof for testing. The top two sections get a little wispy (pun intended) for big panels, or to leave up. I regularly put it 20' - 26' and leave it with a panel attached. They sell a drive-on mount with a socket for holding it. I just mounted mine through the trailer side with one of those nice alloy dish mounts so I can rotate it to about 45 degrees for transport. When I set it up, I rotate upright, put the end into a socket I made from one of those floor PVC toilet bowl flanges. Eyeball along a building or vertical surface in two planes and you get the whole thing somewhat vertical. Above the mount, on the side of the trailer, I put two stainless eye bolts. Once I get the mast vertical, I put a custom fitted piece of wood with an arc cut in the end to fit the pole, between the pole and trailer and lash it with a bungy cord. Gives it a third attachment point along the trailer side; ground, middle, near the top. It's raining pretty hard right now or I'd take a picture. I can set it up on Friday in about 20 minutes at the market. At 08:03 AM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Would the wonder pole handle a wind load of an NS2/Canopy? What about a massive Arc MT combo? How do you mount the base? Can this be made mobile/temporary? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:55 AM, ralph ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Were you speaking of the pneumatic mast in my pics, or of the wonder pole? Mine is a Wil-burt or Wilburt and they cost a bunch- like $5,000.00 new. But since the DTV rollout is complete, there should be surplus ENG trucks around with these masts. The TV stations started keeping their old trucks to use for testing. I actually had one given to me complete with pole and generator. I could not go get it and the station decided to keep it for DTV testing. Call around to your local stations and ask about surplus ENG trucks. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'd love to add that to my trailer. What is the make? At 11:36 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: That sounds like great public service and a way to get recognized too! If you want to see something that really gets attention, have a look at my site survey/portable AP rig. http://ralphfowler.com I have been reluctant to put signs on it though, for obvious reasons. (people already think I am toting a rocket launcher) LOL Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:57 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies 2.5 Amp in good sun. The 800 Amp hour battery will run it for 800 hours? Mike At 08:04 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I
Re: [WISPA] solar site
No negative comments, they seem to be fine. Mark McElvy AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. 573.729.9200 - Office WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I second the Morningstar On Aug 26, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Mark McElvy wrote: The solar list that I participate in recommend not using the charge controller included in that kit as it is junk. They always recommend MorningStar for like $60.00. Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was going to ask about this. Harbor freight has a set of 3 on sale for 199 with controller and a few other goodies. I keep meaning to go get some before they go off sale again (I may be too late already) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was shocked to find the 15W panels at Northern for $79.00. I ordered some and they work great. You need a charge controller, $45.00 to keep the batteries from over charging. You have to get creative with uni-strut and angle iron to make your own mount, or buy them. Batteries are the biggest expense. So to answer your question, yes. At 11:29 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Specifically, the Morningstar MPPT charge controllers. -Christopher Erickson -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I second the Morningstar On Aug 26, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Mark McElvy wrote: The solar list that I participate in recommend not using the charge controller included in that kit as it is junk. They always recommend MorningStar for like $60.00. Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was going to ask about this. Harbor freight has a set of 3 on sale for 199 with controller and a few other goodies. I keep meaning to go get some before they go off sale again (I may be too late already) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was shocked to find the 15W panels at Northern for $79.00. I ordered some and they work great. You need a charge controller, $45.00 to keep the batteries from over charging. You have to get creative with uni-strut and angle iron to make your own mount, or buy them. Batteries are the biggest expense. So to answer your question, yes. At 11:29 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
We have 2 solar sites. 2 problems that occur, which if power is nearby makes it worth it to run power to them. 1st problem. Battery Maintenance. 2nd Problem. Low sun in the winter months. We have solar and wind to make up for the solar loss in the winter, however it seems we have to go and charge them by letting the generator run a couple of hours. Not that big a deal when you have installs in the area and can just stop by and charge them up some more. We monitor them so that we know when there is an impending power issue coming up. One site has 1 MikroTik 2.4 AP, 1 MikroTik 5GHz AP, 2 MikroTik Backhauls, a RB/493 at the base, and a 900 Trango AP and it requires little maintenance. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I second the Morningstar On Aug 26, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Mark McElvy wrote: The solar list that I participate in recommend not using the charge controller included in that kit as it is junk. They always recommend MorningStar for like $60.00. Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was going to ask about this. Harbor freight has a set of 3 on sale for 199 with controller and a few other goodies. I keep meaning to go get some before they go off sale again (I may be too late already) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was shocked to find the 15W panels at Northern for $79.00. I ordered some and they work great. You need a charge controller, $45.00 to keep the batteries from over charging. You have to get creative with uni-strut and angle iron to make your own mount, or buy them. Batteries are the biggest expense. So to answer your question, yes. At 11:29 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
http://www.altestore.com/store/ is where I get my solar panels. That panel looks like the 48v one they sell for a similar price. Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. 2 60's might work for a small 1 MT site. Then you're looking at closer to $1k for 120w of panel, charge controller, and 8d sized deep cycle battery. We have 3 solar powered sites. The most recent one needs 200w of solar to power 1 rb433ah with 3 cards, 1 Alvarion vl900 AU. We have about 400AH of battery (12v) and a morningstar controller. 15w is a toy solar panel or a battery charger, not a something to power a site. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 07:05:51PM -0700, John Thomas wrote: It looks like there is a sweet spot at 60 watts http://www.solarhome.org/51-60wattsolarpanels.aspx About $250 each. John Mike wrote: I was shocked to find the 15W panels at Northern for $79.00. I ordered some and they work great. You need a charge controller, $45.00 to keep the batteries from over charging. You have to get creative with uni-strut and angle iron to make your own mount, or buy them. Batteries are the biggest expense. So to answer your question, yes. At 11:29 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
24 hours of sun in 33 days is enough to run 12 watts. That's just amazing when you think about it! On 8/27/09, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Don't forget that there is some inefficiency in the battery and some self discharge. So you don't get a watt out for every watt in. Also don't forget that if you're doing this on a budget you're probably using batteries which are made to deep cycle often so they won't last long if being discharged often below the 80% full charge level (you shouldn't plan on using more than 20% of the battery's capability regularly). Your no sun calculation of 33.3 days run time might be accurate, but you should probably figure 33.3 * .2 = 6.66 days is the max amount of no sun time you'd consider your system is built for, knowing in an emergency you could run longer but by taking a toll on your batteries. 6.66 days of no sun is still a lot and wouldn't happen often so you're probably still OK. It's always worth it to over- engineer a solar system on both the panels and the batteries. Also some solar panel manufacturers are a bit optimistic in their wattage rating. Also solar panels act like constant current generators putting out a more or less constant current over a range of voltage. A panel that puts out 2 amps will give 2 amps into a battery that's 11.5 volts or 14 volts (if the panel's Voc is high enough to still deliver it's 2 amps into a 14 volt battery) and though technically it's more wattage at 14 volts I believe that as far as the batteries are concerned the 2 amps is the number that matters, not that wattage. It's better to figure by amps and not watts, and to use actual measured amperage and not the manufacturers numbers (short circuit current or max working current). Greg On Aug 26, 2009, at 11:35 PM, Mike wrote: I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I don't think his 24 hours of sun number meant in one 24 hour period. I think he meant 24 hours of sun cumulative over 33 days. No? Greg On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:01 AM, Christopher Erickson wrote: First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above the Arctic circle. And even then, that only happens for a few days of the year. Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes. For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage, Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only around 60 degrees up in the sky. And below about 25 degrees, there isn't any charging going on at all. So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning, peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon. The math is more complicated than it first appears. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Here is the graph straight from the charge monitor for our solar panels, to give you an idea what the charging pattern looks like. This is for a pair of 60w panels. http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Hogback/graph_image1.png.html Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Christopher Erickson wrote: First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above the Arctic circle. And even then, that only happens for a few days of the year. Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes. For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage, Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only around 60 degrees up in the sky. And below about 25 degrees, there isn't any charging going on at all. So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning, peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon. The math is more complicated than it first appears. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Could be but that isn't right either. 24 hours of daylight is not the same as 24 hours of full current charging. The Sun rises and the Sun sets. Latitude and seasons aside, an 80 watt panel is only going to give about 450 watt-hours a day at absolute best. -Christopher Erickson -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I don't think his 24 hours of sun number meant in one 24 hour period. I think he meant 24 hours of sun cumulative over 33 days. No? Greg On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:01 AM, Christopher Erickson wrote: First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above the Arctic circle. And even then, that only happens for a few days of the year. Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes. For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage, Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only around 60 degrees up in the sky. And below about 25 degrees, there isn't any charging going on at all. So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning, peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon. The math is more complicated than it first appears. My advice is always free and worth every penny! -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Am I missing something? 24 (hours of sun) * 60 watts = 1,440 watt hours of solar power produced. 12 (watts) * 24 (hours in a day) * 33 (days) = 9504 (watt hours) not 1,440 of power consumed. Working backwards starting with 1,440 watt hours to burn: 1,440 watt hours / 12 (watts) * 24 (hours in day) = 5 days of no sun run time till your batteries are totally flat. If you plan on only discharging your batteries 20% or in other words only using 20% of your solar power produced based on 24 hours of sun (1,440 watt hours) then that's 288 watt hours to burn, which is one day's run time. Let's look at it another way. You shouldn't be thinking that you're getting more than 5 hours of good sun a day with fixed facing solar panels (no tracking the sun throughout the day) and even that number is probably a little too generous but let's use it. So that's 5 (hours) * 60 (watts) giving 300 watt hours produced each day. 12 (watts) times 24 hours is 288 watt hours. That's only leaving you 12 watt hours up your sleeve and that's assuming perfect efficiency. Greg On Aug 26, 2009, at 11:54 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 24 hours of sun in 33 days is enough to run 12 watts. That's just amazing when you think about it! On 8/27/09, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I'm not sure I buy into your math. If I have a repeater site that is pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right? If I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, I have 48W left over to charge the battery. Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W. I still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to charge the battery. If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will run the radios AND fully charge the battery. If the sun shines 24 hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the battery will stay charged. No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die. I NEVER see those conditions here in the midwest. I'll still maintain you can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you monitor battery condition it will work just fine. At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of panel. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
For a complete system, these guys are the best IMO: http://www.sunwize.com/ Robert Damrau Reno, Nevada; Tel: 775-969-3131 What you need should be around $2K assembled. You can build your own from scratch for maybe $1200, but if e.g the solar cell or charger goes bad, it's all on you. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: Principal WISPA Member List w...@wispa.org; isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:09 PM Subject: [WISPA] solar site Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2324 - Release Date: 08/24/09 12:55:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Check out Sunwize http://sunwize.com/. They're one of the places I've purchased from. They can engineer the system for you, sell you everything you need even the wire and junction boxes, and their prices are good. I have no financial interest in recommending them. Greg On 8/24/09 11:39 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Tyconpower is one alternative. It's a product by Scott Parsons (founder of Pacific Wireless). Scott is on the list and might chime up. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:55:00 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site When you are done compiling your list share the final back out please. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:10 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] solar site Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
- Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hi Marlon, Solar isn't that hard we just need to look at a details to figure out what is required and move on from there here are details to figure out about solar to make sure it works right 1. figure out how many watt-hours a day he will need for MT radio. Average and maximum watt-hours I have a site with 1 starOS, 3 MT with 4 radios (total), 2 alvarion vl, 1 trango 5830, 1 SB ap, Cisco 16 port managed switch and an Airaya backhaul. According to the digital logger at the site I'm pulling a total of about 1.8 amps. 2. what voltage he needs for his radios 12 3. latitude of the site Zip is 99159 4. Average low temperature (how cold does it get) I've seen -30. -10 is common. 5. Does the radio site have an unobstructed view of the Sun's path through the sky? Oh yeah. 6. Other stuff, like physical security, None 7. back up battery capacity (how many days operation without charging (for fog or cloudy days, or low sun availability - winter.) Your message stated that there were few of those days. If we could go a couple of days that should be just fine for starters. This will only service 5 or so households. 8. And depending on difficulty of reaching the site, what PMI interval would be desired. (affects component and battery choices.) We'll likely run optima deep cycle batteries. They've worked great for all of the trenchers, dozers, backhoes, boats and other stuff we have around the farm. 9. And what kind of OOB management and remote reset capabilities are desired. (cellular access, for example) Nothing needed. The locals can drive up the hill and reset things if need be. Luckily that's VERY rare with the MT gear anyway. I've used Talley in the past for solar in the past. You can give them the details and they'll spec it, quote it, and build it it for you Albert Esquer [aesq...@talleycom.com] is the gentleman I've worked with while at Invensys Thanks, marlon Paul Rice WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Let me get this right, You said; I have a site with 1 starOS, 3 MT with 4 radios (total), 2 alvarion vl, 1 trango 5830, 1 SB ap, Cisco 16 port managed switch and an Airaya backhaul. According to the digital logger at the site I'm pulling a total of about 1.8 amps. Then; This will only service 5 or so households. Dude there is no Profit in that tower. LOL Steve Barnes Manager PCS-WIN RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired, and success achieved. - Helen Keller -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hi Marlon, Solar isn't that hard we just need to look at a details to figure out what is required and move on from there here are details to figure out about solar to make sure it works right 1. figure out how many watt-hours a day he will need for MT radio. Average and maximum watt-hours I have a site with 1 starOS, 3 MT with 4 radios (total), 2 alvarion vl, 1 trango 5830, 1 SB ap, Cisco 16 port managed switch and an Airaya backhaul. According to the digital logger at the site I'm pulling a total of about 1.8 amps. 2. what voltage he needs for his radios 12 3. latitude of the site Zip is 99159 4. Average low temperature (how cold does it get) I've seen -30. -10 is common. 5. Does the radio site have an unobstructed view of the Sun's path through the sky? Oh yeah. 6. Other stuff, like physical security, None 7. back up battery capacity (how many days operation without charging (for fog or cloudy days, or low sun availability - winter.) Your message stated that there were few of those days. If we could go a couple of days that should be just fine for starters. This will only service 5 or so households. 8. And depending on difficulty of reaching the site, what PMI interval would be desired. (affects component and battery choices.) We'll likely run optima deep cycle batteries. They've worked great for all of the trenchers, dozers, backhoes, boats and other stuff we have around the farm. 9. And what kind of OOB management and remote reset capabilities are desired. (cellular access, for example) Nothing needed. The locals can drive up the hill and reset things if need be. Luckily that's VERY rare with the MT gear anyway. I've used Talley in the past for solar in the past. You can give them the details and they'll spec it, quote it, and build it it for you Albert Esquer [aesq...@talleycom.com] is the gentleman I've worked with while at Invensys Thanks, marlon Paul Rice WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Thanks for all of the advice Scott! Do I understand correctly that you can NOT sell this to me because you specialize in even smaller systems? thanks again, marlon - Original Message - From: Scott Parsons sc...@e-zy.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: 'Principal WISPA Member List' w...@wispa.org; isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hi Marlon, Long time... Voltage 12V Power Consumption: MT 4 watts, 2 Radio cards 8 watts Total= 12 watts @ 12V We have a handy calculator at http://tyconpower.com/learning_center/learning_center.htm I've attached the results. I used 4 hours of sun for your location based on another post I saw. I used 24 hours extra battery capacity. You may want to increase or decrease this depending on the reliability of the sun in your area. You need 73 watts minimum solar panel capacity You need at least 88 Ah in battery capacity This is bigger than the stuff we offer right now but here's a starting list: 1. 85W solar panel - You should be able to get for about $350 or less 2. 12V 8A Solar Controller - You should be able to get for $60 or less 3. 100Ah battery - You don't need a deep discharge type because the solar controller will disconnect the load when the battery voltage reaches 11.1V which protects the battery from over discharge. You just need a type that has good performance in cold weather. You should be able to pick up a battery for less than $200 4. You'll need a mount for the solar panels try here: http://power-fab.com/products.htm They make all kinds of mounts. I'm not sure the cost. 5. You'll need a vented outdoor enclosure if you are putting the battery inside. I've seen people put the battery in one of those plastic battery cases you see in small power boats and then the enclosure requirements for the controller and electronics becomes easy. We have suitable enclosures for $70 14x10x5 Polycarbonate outdoor enclosure 6. Wiring is quite simple. Any decent vendor will warranty the panels for 20-25 years and the solar controller for 1 year. Regards, Scott -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:10 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: Principal WISPA Member List; isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] solar site Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
There is when the customer is buying all of the equipment I can afford to maintain it. Like it or not, that's a LOT of what my areas is made up of. Little pockets of customers here and there. It's taken us roughly 20 tower sites to service a little over 600 subs! And 3 of the sites account for nearly half of that number. Gotta love rural areas. USF is making more and more sense to me all of the time :-). Wish I could get it. marlon - Original Message - From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Let me get this right, You said; I have a site with 1 starOS, 3 MT with 4 radios (total), 2 alvarion vl, 1 trango 5830, 1 SB ap, Cisco 16 port managed switch and an Airaya backhaul. According to the digital logger at the site I'm pulling a total of about 1.8 amps. Then; This will only service 5 or so households. Dude there is no Profit in that tower. LOL Steve Barnes Manager PCS-WIN RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired, and success achieved. - Helen Keller -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hi Marlon, Solar isn't that hard we just need to look at a details to figure out what is required and move on from there here are details to figure out about solar to make sure it works right 1. figure out how many watt-hours a day he will need for MT radio. Average and maximum watt-hours I have a site with 1 starOS, 3 MT with 4 radios (total), 2 alvarion vl, 1 trango 5830, 1 SB ap, Cisco 16 port managed switch and an Airaya backhaul. According to the digital logger at the site I'm pulling a total of about 1.8 amps. 2. what voltage he needs for his radios 12 3. latitude of the site Zip is 99159 4. Average low temperature (how cold does it get) I've seen -30. -10 is common. 5. Does the radio site have an unobstructed view of the Sun's path through the sky? Oh yeah. 6. Other stuff, like physical security, None 7. back up battery capacity (how many days operation without charging (for fog or cloudy days, or low sun availability - winter.) Your message stated that there were few of those days. If we could go a couple of days that should be just fine for starters. This will only service 5 or so households. 8. And depending on difficulty of reaching the site, what PMI interval would be desired. (affects component and battery choices.) We'll likely run optima deep cycle batteries. They've worked great for all of the trenchers, dozers, backhoes, boats and other stuff we have around the farm. 9. And what kind of OOB management and remote reset capabilities are desired. (cellular access, for example) Nothing needed. The locals can drive up the hill and reset things if need be. Luckily that's VERY rare with the MT gear anyway. I've used Talley in the past for solar in the past. You can give them the details and they'll spec it, quote it, and build it it for you Albert Esquer [aesq...@talleycom.com] is the gentleman I've worked with while at Invensys Thanks, marlon Paul Rice WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Oops, I missed part of what you said. I was trying to show how little power the gear actually uses. That's one of my main sites. The NEW one will only have 5 or so subs. marlon - Original Message - From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Let me get this right, You said; I have a site with 1 starOS, 3 MT with 4 radios (total), 2 alvarion vl, 1 trango 5830, 1 SB ap, Cisco 16 port managed switch and an Airaya backhaul. According to the digital logger at the site I'm pulling a total of about 1.8 amps. Then; This will only service 5 or so households. Dude there is no Profit in that tower. LOL Steve Barnes Manager PCS-WIN RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired, and success achieved. - Helen Keller -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hi Marlon, Solar isn't that hard we just need to look at a details to figure out what is required and move on from there here are details to figure out about solar to make sure it works right 1. figure out how many watt-hours a day he will need for MT radio. Average and maximum watt-hours I have a site with 1 starOS, 3 MT with 4 radios (total), 2 alvarion vl, 1 trango 5830, 1 SB ap, Cisco 16 port managed switch and an Airaya backhaul. According to the digital logger at the site I'm pulling a total of about 1.8 amps. 2. what voltage he needs for his radios 12 3. latitude of the site Zip is 99159 4. Average low temperature (how cold does it get) I've seen -30. -10 is common. 5. Does the radio site have an unobstructed view of the Sun's path through the sky? Oh yeah. 6. Other stuff, like physical security, None 7. back up battery capacity (how many days operation without charging (for fog or cloudy days, or low sun availability - winter.) Your message stated that there were few of those days. If we could go a couple of days that should be just fine for starters. This will only service 5 or so households. 8. And depending on difficulty of reaching the site, what PMI interval would be desired. (affects component and battery choices.) We'll likely run optima deep cycle batteries. They've worked great for all of the trenchers, dozers, backhoes, boats and other stuff we have around the farm. 9. And what kind of OOB management and remote reset capabilities are desired. (cellular access, for example) Nothing needed. The locals can drive up the hill and reset things if need be. Luckily that's VERY rare with the MT gear anyway. I've used Talley in the past for solar in the past. You can give them the details and they'll spec it, quote it, and build it it for you Albert Esquer [aesq...@talleycom.com] is the gentleman I've worked with while at Invensys Thanks, marlon Paul Rice WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Note to sell - NEVER EVER use radiator clamps to hold steel L beam brackets to a Trylon steel tower leg... Microburst winds snapped the brackets right off the tower, shattering the panel... Hard lesson learned :( On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Uh oh. So what do you use? Regular U bolt clamps? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Note to sell - NEVER EVER use radiator clamps to hold steel L beam brackets to a Trylon steel tower leg... Microburst winds snapped the brackets right off the tower, shattering the panel... Hard lesson learned :( On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
You engineer a fold down bracket with sheer pins for the designed hinge point but grade 8 hardware for most anything else. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Uh oh. So what do you use? Regular U bolt clamps? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Note to sell - NEVER EVER use radiator clamps to hold steel L beam brackets to a Trylon steel tower leg... Microburst winds snapped the brackets right off the tower, shattering the panel... Hard lesson learned :( On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] solar site
120 - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Yikes, that is daunting. Is that the site your putting in, or your example site? -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site 120 - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I'd recommend you use either a unmanaged or managed industrial DC powered switch 12-20 vdc otherwise your going to need a LOT of solar panels (650 watts is what my calcs came up with) In fact eliminate all 120 AC from your outdoor install for the best results to save money on smaller solar rigs. Paul -- From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:09 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Yikes, that is daunting. Is that the site your putting in, or your example site? -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site 120 - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Just an example of how little power we really need. I guess I'm too used to those 500 horse power irrigation pumps we use. marlon - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Yikes, that is daunting. Is that the site your putting in, or your example site? -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site 120 - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Our solar site has 2 deep cycle marine batteries in series running everything at 24 volts with no inverter. It lasts more than a week, closer to two I think, running 2 star boards w/ two radios each. We don't have temp problems so we just put batteries and injectors in a water heater stand. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Just an example of how little power we really need. I guess I'm too used to those 500 horse power irrigation pumps we use. marlon - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Yikes, that is daunting. Is that the site your putting in, or your example site? -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site 120 - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I was shocked to find the 15W panels at Northern for $79.00. I ordered some and they work great. You need a charge controller, $45.00 to keep the batteries from over charging. You have to get creative with uni-strut and angle iron to make your own mount, or buy them. Batteries are the biggest expense. So to answer your question, yes. At 11:29 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Indeed. AC/DC conversions lose 20% each way. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'd recommend you use either a unmanaged or managed industrial DC powered switch 12-20 vdc otherwise your going to need a LOT of solar panels (650 watts is what my calcs came up with) In fact eliminate all 120 AC from your outdoor install for the best results to save money on smaller solar rigs. Paul -- From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:09 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Yikes, that is daunting. Is that the site your putting in, or your example site? -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site 120 - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Here is the setup that we recently did for a combination solar/wind powered site. This is a StarOS site, X4000 board with four Mikrotik R52H cards in it. One is 5ghz backhaul, two are for APs and the third card is a spare. 2 60 watt solar panels solar charge controller air-x wind generator four deep-cycle marine batteries (local auto parts store) metal enclosure 24-48v converter (or 12 to 48, I forget which) miscellaneous hardware for mounting/wiring Total cost - $1850.00 If you were going solar only, it would be about $1250. We also installed a device called a SuperRMS from Invictus Networks, which is awesome for alternative energy sites. It has auto ping, remote power control and we are also able to graph the voltage of the panels, wind generator and batteries. It was a bit pricey at $650 or so, but it is well worth it, as the sites we have on solar/wind are generally not very accessible.The SuperRMS tells us that the wind generator is generating almost no power and that the solar panels are generating plenty of power. Altogether, you are looking at about $2000 for a really good solar setup with full monitoring and remote control capabilities. You can do it cheaper, but you will most likely burn up the extra money in battery replacements and extra trips to the site. Here are some pictures of the site: http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Hogback/ There are also some example graphs of the charge provided by the panels and the consumption of the radios throughout the day. We could run about 100 people off this site and/or use it as a backhaul point to somewhere else. I have four other sites similar to this on my network - one is wind/solar and the other three are wind only - and they have proven to be very reliable. There are some occasional issues. Wind generators will sometimes cook batteries, so you need to turn the voltage down a little bit. Also, four batteries works a lot better than two batteries because if you have a cell go bad, you aren't completely out of luck. Also, more batteries means less chance of them overcharging.Solar power is a lot more linear and good for providing baseline power. Wind will charge batteries very quickly if there is wind. Unfortunately, even though we have the best wind resource in the world here in Wyoming/Nebraska, there are occasions where the wind won't blow for ten days in a row and that can cause problems. I hope this is useful to you and anyone else looking to do wind/solar for your sites. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Mike Hammett wrote: Indeed. AC/DC conversions lose 20% each way. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I'd recommend you use either a unmanaged or managed industrial DC powered switch 12-20 vdc otherwise your going to need a LOT of solar panels (650 watts is what my calcs came up with) In fact eliminate all 120 AC from your outdoor install for the best results to save money on smaller solar rigs. Paul -- From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:09 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Yikes, that is daunting. Is that the site your putting in, or your example site? -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site 120 - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50
Re: [WISPA] solar site
I was going to ask about this. Harbor freight has a set of 3 on sale for 199 with controller and a few other goodies. I keep meaning to go get some before they go off sale again (I may be too late already) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I was shocked to find the 15W panels at Northern for $79.00. I ordered some and they work great. You need a charge controller, $45.00 to keep the batteries from over charging. You have to get creative with uni-strut and angle iron to make your own mount, or buy them. Batteries are the biggest expense. So to answer your question, yes. At 11:29 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Are you running ac/dc transformers? -RickG On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Profitocprof...@cv-access.com wrote: Our solar site has 2 deep cycle marine batteries in series running everything at 24 volts with no inverter. It lasts more than a week, closer to two I think, running 2 star boards w/ two radios each. We don't have temp problems so we just put batteries and injectors in a water heater stand. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Just an example of how little power we really need. I guess I'm too used to those 500 horse power irrigation pumps we use. marlon - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Yikes, that is daunting. Is that the site your putting in, or your example site? -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site 120 - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Absolutely, 12, 24, or 48 volts depending on what you are trying to do. John Paul Rice wrote: I'd recommend you use either a unmanaged or managed industrial DC powered switch 12-20 vdc otherwise your going to need a LOT of solar panels (650 watts is what my calcs came up with) In fact eliminate all 120 AC from your outdoor install for the best results to save money on smaller solar rigs. Paul -- From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:09 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Yikes, that is daunting. Is that the site your putting in, or your example site? -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site 120 - Original Message - From: Paul Rice paul.r...@boomerang-networks.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Hey Marlon is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC? volts x amps = watts the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining the size of the power system needed the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :) CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 watts, I think 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be much of risk. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] solar site
It looks like there is a sweet spot at 60 watts http://www.solarhome.org/51-60wattsolarpanels.aspx About $250 each. John Mike wrote: I was shocked to find the 15W panels at Northern for $79.00. I ordered some and they work great. You need a charge controller, $45.00 to keep the batteries from over charging. You have to get creative with uni-strut and angle iron to make your own mount, or buy them. Batteries are the biggest expense. So to answer your question, yes. At 11:29 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system good enough for our radios these days? Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies 2.5 Amp in good sun. The 800 Amp hour battery will run it for 800 hours? Mike At 08:04 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
That sounds like great public service and a way to get recognized too! If you want to see something that really gets attention, have a look at my site survey/portable AP rig. http://ralphfowler.com I have been reluctant to put signs on it though, for obvious reasons. (people already think I am toting a rocket launcher) LOL Ralph -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:57 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site This particular setup is mounted to a 4 x 6 x 4 Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I painted it bright white and added my logo and on one side Solar Powered Wireless. I park it at events and provide free WiFi. I park it downtown every Friday for Farmers Market and the name recognition has been outstanding. I have a 40 foot Wonder Pole mounted to the side I swing into position and hoist a Deliberant panel up. Inside the trailer I have a Deliberant AP2i doing DHCP and giving out access. I don't push the pole up farther than 15 or 20 feet for events, but will run it all the way up for site surveys on occasion. Both radios pull less than an Amp total and the system supplies 2.5 Amp in good sun. The 800 Amp hour battery will run it for 800 hours? Mike At 08:04 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: Interesting. What radios are you powering this with? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:50:14 -0500 I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00 charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built my own. So far, the fully charged light comes on every day. The battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week. Might not be the club way to do it, but it works. Mike At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote: Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Here is another one to check out: http://www.alpha.com. They are here in Bellingham, Washington. They were recommended to us by BelAir. I talked to them a few times, then our opportunity to use solar went away, at least for now. Steve Hansen Tom Sharples wrote: For a complete system, these guys are the best IMO: http://www.sunwize.com/ Robert Damrau Reno, Nevada; Tel: 775-969-3131 What you need should be around $2K assembled. You can build your own from scratch for maybe $1200, but if e.g the solar cell or charger goes bad, it's all on you. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: Principal WISPA Member List w...@wispa.org; isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:09 PM Subject: [WISPA] solar site Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2324 - Release Date: 08/24/09 12:55:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] solar site
Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
When you are done compiling your list share the final back out please. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:10 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] solar site Hi All, Sorry for the cross post. Time is short on this project and I need a lot of help. I've never done a solar project. Never really even looked at them due to the costs I've seen tossed about. Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment needed to cover his community. The ONLY way into the area is a hill that's within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power. I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this site. One backhaul and 1 distribution. I'll guess that I'll have less than a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality). We don't often get long periods of no sun. Could be days of fog or low clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun. On the foggy or cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind generation. I think. So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors welcome!) and anything else I'm missing. Thanks all! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] solar site
Hi Marlon, Solar isn't that hard we just need to look at a details to figure out what is required and move on from there here are details to figure out about solar to make sure it works right 1. figure out how many watt-hours a day he will need for MT radio. Average and maximum watt-hours 2. what voltage he needs for his radios 3. latitude of the site 4. Average low temperature (how cold does it get) 5. Does the radio site have an unobstructed view of the Sun's path through the sky? 6. Other stuff, like physical security, 7. back up battery capacity (how many days operation without charging (for fog or cloudy days, or low sun availability - winter.) Your message stated that there were few of those days. 8. And depending on difficulty of reaching the site, what PMI interval would be desired. (affects component and battery choices.) 9. And what kind of OOB management and remote reset capabilities are desired. (cellular access, for example) I've used Talley in the past for solar in the past. You can give them the details and they'll spec it, quote it, and build it it for you Albert Esquer [aesq...@talleycom.com] is the gentleman I've worked with while at Invensys Paul Rice WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/