Re: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant
Ron, you've lost me. What has Saudi got to do with anything here? Also, there's nothing at all wrong with CALEA. Did you read the FAQ or anything else about it? They have to come to US for the data. They won't be putting anything on our networks etc. They want us to be the ones to pull the specific customer data that they are looking for. Lastly, if you think the laws/rules we play under are wrong. Then work to get them changed. There are a few I'm working against myself. In the mean time, one had best obey the rules or risk loosing one's business/customers etc. WISPA isn't saying that the law is good or bad at this point. We're doing what we can to help you to not break it! marlon - Original Message - From: Ron Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant To All, Thanks to all that participated. I know you worked hard and used valuable time which could have been spent on your business. However, Am I the only person in WISPA who disapproves of this 'STUFF'. This is the way Saudi Arabia is run, and that's a total police state. I know, I spent three years there. Are we just supposed to just swallow whatever the Bureaucrats 'shovel' our way? Man, this scares the bejesus out of me. ARGGG! Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant
Ron, I understand your concern but if you want to play in this game you have follow the same laws as everyone else. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ron Wallace wrote: To All, Thanks to all that participated. I know you worked hard and used valuable time which could have been spent on your business. However, Am I the only person in WISPA who disapproves of this 'STUFF'. This is the way Saudi Arabia is run, and that's a total police state. I know, I spent three years there. Are we just supposed to just swallow whatever the Bureaucrats 'shovel' our way? Man, this scares the bejesus out of me. ARGGG! Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant
Yes,Marlon, I read the FAQ. I stand by my Evalution of the information that the Gov wants. Its over the top, none of their business, and I am working to change some of the laws like the ignorance of the Patriot Act. Saudi Arabia, collects the same type of info, we are becoming more like them, thats what they have to do with anything here, Marlon. It is a comparision. You might think about that. Then again you might choose not to. You may disagree with all I have said here. I think Iwill take this off list, from here on. Thank you for your response, You are a good man. Ron -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2007 11:07 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant Ron, you've lost me. What has Saudi got to do with anything here? Also, there's nothing at all wrong with CALEA. Did you read the FAQ or anything else about it? They have to come to US for the data. They won't be putting anything on our networks etc. They want us to be the ones to pull the specific customer data that they are looking for. Lastly, if you think the laws/rules we play under are wrong. Then work to get them changed. There are a few I'm working against myself. In the mean time, one had best obey the rules or risk loosing one's business/customers etc. WISPA isn't saying that the law is good or bad at this point. We're doing what we can to help you to not break it! marlon - Original Message - From: Ron Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant To All, Thanks to all that participated. I know you worked hard and used valuable time which could have been spent on your business. However, Am I the only person in WISPA who disapproves of this 'STUFF'. This is the way Saudi Arabia is run, and that's a total police state. I know, I spent three years there. Are we just supposed to just swallow whatever the Bureaucrats 'shovel' our way? Man, this scares the bejesus out of me. ARGGG! Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant
Thanks Dawn, I don't have to like the infringement on our freedom of speech expression or my interpretation of it. -Original Message- From: Dawn DiPietro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2007 11:32 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant Ron, I understand your concern but if you want to play in this game you have follow the same laws as everyone else. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Ron Wallace wrote: To All, Thanks to all that participated. I know you worked hard and used valuable time which could have been spent on your business. However, Am I the only person in WISPA who disapproves of this 'STUFF'. This is the way Saudi Arabia is run, and that's a total police state. I know, I spent three years there. Are we just supposed to just swallow whatever the Bureaucrats 'shovel' our way? Man, this scares the bejesus out of me. ARGGG! Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant
CALEA is actually a MAJOR improvement over Carnivore. With Carnivore, they took the whole stream of traffic from everyone, with CALEA, they only get the info that the judge approved. Do you have an issue with all wiretaps (judge approved), or just this sort? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wallace Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant To All, Thanks to all that participated. I know you worked hard and used valuable time which could have been spent on your business. However, Am I the only person in WISPA who disapproves of this 'STUFF'. This is the way Saudi Arabia is run, and that's a total police state. I know, I spent three years there. Are we just supposed to just swallow whatever the Bureaucrats 'shovel' our way? Man, this scares the bejesus out of me. ARGGG! Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant
However, Am I the only person in WISPA who disapproves of this 'STUFF'. This is the way Saudi Arabia is run, and that's a total police state. I know, I spent three years there. Are we just supposed to just swallow whatever the Bureaucrats 'shovel' our way? Man, this scares the bejesus out of me. ARGGG! Ron Wallace In WISPA's efforts to find a way to help wisps become CALEA compliant with the least pain. It may sound like WISPA has endorsed the idea of spying, wiretaps, and or government intrusion into our networks. But thats not the situation. Actually, the WISPA board has NOT discussed this aspect of CALEA, only what are we going to do to get it so that wisps can afford to do this without having to spend $150,000.00 upfront plus, as we've all read in the CALEA documents. Our only goal is to ease the cost of the pain. I won't get into the political aspects of this stuff, but your not alone Ron. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CALEA FAQ-rant
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 14:07:01 +, Ron Wallace wrote To All, Thanks to all that participated. I know you worked hard and used valuable time which could have been spent on your business. However, Am I the only person in WISPA who disapproves of this 'STUFF'. This is the way Saudi Arabia is run, and that's a total police state. I know, I spent three years there. Are we just supposed to just swallow whatever the Bureaucrats 'shovel' our way? Man, this scares the bejesus out of me. ARGGG! Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605- 4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron, there is a truth that the constitution says that with a court order, almost anything can be searched. I don't know that any of us really seriously disagree with that. If there were an absolute privacy, then we'd be unable to catch or prosecute some really bad people. Now let's look at CALEA. CALEA was written to allow simple phone taps in a non-wired world - electronic switching of POTS. Seems reasonable, seeing as how Congress did ante up the money to pay the subjects to make the changes. When we read the FAQ, we find absolute requirements that EVERY cpe or AP you have be changed to become CALEA compliant. How many of you run stuff that's now out of date or no longer produced? How many of you have equipment that physically lacks the capability of being changed to provide the data mirror capability? Again, the FAQ, ALL equipment providers must make their equipment compliant. And what if they don't? A LOT of our stuff comes from offshore or outside our borders. Arbitrary demands we include certain specified functionality including certain code in all equipment.. What if they won't? It becomes illegal to use, that's what. What if they do? We're handing the mechanism used to intercept law enforcement type demands to people outside our country, with no loyalty, obligations, or even assurance of fidelity. Can you say built in back door? And OUR posteriors are on the line, since WE have to GAURANTEE privacy and confidentiality. Even though we produce none of it, wrote none of it, and have no recourse on the people who did. Even worse, we're totally at someone else's mercy to maintain full and bug-free compliance through upgrades, updates, etc. So, if the code won't fit into your Trango's firmware, guess who will be buying new Trango equipment? What if you own stuff that's no longer in production. Do you suppose compliance backfitting will be at a 'nice' price? Just examples of big brother injecting himself into your network, business, pocketbook. And WISPA won't even COMMENT to the regulators that is is TOTALLY WRONG. Instead, the leadership browbeats the membership when they object. It's the law they say. We only lost because nobody would object. Yes, it's all wrong, but the strategy is to isolate all who would object, and beat them down one at a time. One equipment maker at a time, one ISP at a time, one trade association at a time. All our leadership does is play politics, attack and isolate the individuals who object. When it finally results in a bunch of our industry failing, the comment will be that's the price of doing business, by those who remain and persist in the pursuit of market dominance. Frankly, today, I have pneumonia, the flu, and a cold... and that doesn't make me half as sick as how we've been taken down. Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
