Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Make it easy on yourself and go with their 1 width, we go through it by the cases, the more you buy from them, the deeper their discounts. Shannon D. Denniston http://www.ispbuddy.com WISP Management System - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress There are a lot of places that sell it... I buy it from Electrocomm in the large rolls. I think it's 1/2 wide by 12ft long for $7 each... we use about 6 inches per seal... so that's 24 seals for roughly $.30 each. Here is the actual website: http://www.coaxseal.com They have a list of distributors, etc. on that page. Travis Microserv Mario Pommier wrote: Where do you get it? Mario Blair Davis wrote: Same here. Coax Seal is GREAT!!! Travis Johnson wrote: We started using Coax-Seal about two years ago and have never had a problem since. It's moldable so you wrap the connector and then form it around the connections. Quick, easy and cheap. Even on mountaintops at 9000ft elevation with 60mph winds and freezing rain/ice we have never had a problem. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Scotch Super 33 tape over the connectors, right close as you can get to the antenna, all the way down the lmr past where the rubber joint is - then mastic over that - then 33 again over the mastic. This is called a courtesy wrap, cause if you ever have to open it back up, you slice down to the tape inside, and it peels right off quickly without fighting the mastic. Since I started doin this, I've NEVER had a moisture problem. Also, wrap it when it's dry outside so you don't lock humidity into it... temperature changes will then just wreak havoc on you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Scriv, We always do the same thing and we have never had water issues. It is a simple way that a local HAM guy taught me. 1. Hand tighten the coax to the antenna 2. Wrap with 3M electric tape from bottom of fitting/heat shrink up to the base of the antenna (in that direction as it acts like shingles on a house) This wrap not only helps insulate against water, but enables you to get the mastic off easily if you ever need to un-do the fitting! 3. Wrap with a good gummy mastic tape making sure to push the mastic in the voids above the coax where it meets the antenna. We use this; http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=53051eventPage=2 4. Then completely cover the mastic a couple times with the 3M electric tape again - starting at the bottom working toward the top. This wrap keeps the mastic from melting and dripping off during hot weather. Do not use the cheap vinyl electric tape as it will not endure the weather. GL, Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
We are just reverse taping on the connectors, then mastic just past the connector and its rubber seal, then taping it up on the outside tighter on the N connector end to make sure it squeezes the mastic to the radio no problems yet... - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:29 AM Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Thanks Rick. I will pass this along to our techs so they can start implementing this. I know they seal the heck out of things and it is really bizarre to me how any water is getting in there but it is. If they have questions about your process they may be contacting you directly. Many thanks, Scriv Rick Smith wrote: Scotch Super 33 tape over the connectors, right close as you can get to the antenna, all the way down the lmr past where the rubber joint is - then mastic over that - then 33 again over the mastic. This is called a courtesy wrap, cause if you ever have to open it back up, you slice down to the tape inside, and it peels right off quickly without fighting the mastic. Since I started doin this, I've NEVER had a moisture problem. Also, wrap it when it's dry outside so you don't lock humidity into it... temperature changes will then just wreak havoc on you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Scriv, I use the tape-tape-tape method. First I wrap the connection very tight with a high quality electrical tape like 3M super88, then I wrap a layer of self sealing rubber tape 3M brand also, then a final layer of 3M super88. You need to make sure your wraps are tight. Also make sure that adhesive lined heat shrink is being used on your cables. You also need to make sure you are wrapping your tape correctly so that the overlap on the tape is correct. For example if you have a connector/cable that runs up and down you want to wrap your tape from bottom to top, not top to bottom this lets the water shed over your wrap similar to shingles on a house rather then running into the wrap. This is what I do and knock on wood I have not had water get into a cable in the 4 years I have been doing this. Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
I taught Rick this after he learned the hard way ! ;) CampWTF for life ! JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress Thanks Rick. I will pass this along to our techs so they can start implementing this. I know they seal the heck out of things and it is really bizarre to me how any water is getting in there but it is. If they have questions about your process they may be contacting you directly. Many thanks, Scriv Rick Smith wrote: Scotch Super 33 tape over the connectors, right close as you can get to the antenna, all the way down the lmr past where the rubber joint is - then mastic over that - then 33 again over the mastic. This is called a courtesy wrap, cause if you ever have to open it back up, you slice down to the tape inside, and it peels right off quickly without fighting the mastic. Since I started doin this, I've NEVER had a moisture problem. Also, wrap it when it's dry outside so you don't lock humidity into it... temperature changes will then just wreak havoc on you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.12/724 - Release Date: 3/16/2007 12:12 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
nod, WTF! :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:47 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I taught Rick this after he learned the hard way ! ;) CampWTF for life ! JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress Thanks Rick. I will pass this along to our techs so they can start implementing this. I know they seal the heck out of things and it is really bizarre to me how any water is getting in there but it is. If they have questions about your process they may be contacting you directly. Many thanks, Scriv Rick Smith wrote: Scotch Super 33 tape over the connectors, right close as you can get to the antenna, all the way down the lmr past where the rubber joint is - then mastic over that - then 33 again over the mastic. This is called a courtesy wrap, cause if you ever have to open it back up, you slice down to the tape inside, and it peels right off quickly without fighting the mastic. Since I started doin this, I've NEVER had a moisture problem. Also, wrap it when it's dry outside so you don't lock humidity into it... temperature changes will then just wreak havoc on you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.12/724 - Release Date: 3/16/2007 12:12 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Forgot to mention a side benefit do doing it this way is that I don't have to deal with mastic if I need to swap something out in the future. Usually I can unwrap the connection with little trouble, otherwise I slit it with a razor knife then peal it of nice and clean. Chadd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chadd Thompson Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:45 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress Scriv, I use the tape-tape-tape method. First I wrap the connection very tight with a high quality electrical tape like 3M super88, then I wrap a layer of self sealing rubber tape 3M brand also, then a final layer of 3M super88. You need to make sure your wraps are tight. Also make sure that adhesive lined heat shrink is being used on your cables. You also need to make sure you are wrapping your tape correctly so that the overlap on the tape is correct. For example if you have a connector/cable that runs up and down you want to wrap your tape from bottom to top, not top to bottom this lets the water shed over your wrap similar to shingles on a house rather then running into the wrap. This is what I do and knock on wood I have not had water get into a cable in the 4 years I have been doing this. Chadd -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Any particular type of antenna this is happening to? John Scrivner wrote: Thanks Rick. I will pass this along to our techs so they can start implementing this. I know they seal the heck out of things and it is really bizarre to me how any water is getting in there but it is. If they have questions about your process they may be contacting you directly. Many thanks, Scriv Rick Smith wrote: Scotch Super 33 tape over the connectors, right close as you can get to the antenna, all the way down the lmr past where the rubber joint is - then mastic over that - then 33 again over the mastic. This is called a courtesy wrap, cause if you ever have to open it back up, you slice down to the tape inside, and it peels right off quickly without fighting the mastic. Since I started doin this, I've NEVER had a moisture problem. Also, wrap it when it's dry outside so you don't lock humidity into it... temperature changes will then just wreak havoc on you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
I'm going to have to argue with you guys The purpose of the Mastic tape is that it creates a bond that fills the nooks and cranties of the item that you are waterproofing. So that if the Super88 leaks, it can't get to the connector. The two biggest places water gets into the connection is the two ends where the taping ends, NOT just condensing through the material. If you use Super 88 on the inside layer, you are creating a CONDUIT for moisture to pass through, IF water enters in through one of the two ends (far edges of taping). It is VERY difficult to get a complete seal where the tape toughes the Antenna and the end of the connector, reason being the antenna surface is perpendicular to the connector you are wrapping. Doing it the way you are suggesting is definately easy to remove the tape, but it leaves the connector vulnerable to a poor seal at the edges, if that occurs. I'd argue that doing it that way, is taking away the benefit of why you use Mastic tape in the first place. Super88 is meant primarilly just for UV resilient. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
not if you squeeze the mastic up over the nut close to the antenna N connector, and over the ends of the tape near the heat wrap...then it's sealing off the courtesy wrap inside... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I'm going to have to argue with you guys The purpose of the Mastic tape is that it creates a bond that fills the nooks and cranties of the item that you are waterproofing. So that if the Super88 leaks, it can't get to the connector. The two biggest places water gets into the connection is the two ends where the taping ends, NOT just condensing through the material. If you use Super 88 on the inside layer, you are creating a CONDUIT for moisture to pass through, IF water enters in through one of the two ends (far edges of taping). It is VERY difficult to get a complete seal where the tape toughes the Antenna and the end of the connector, reason being the antenna surface is perpendicular to the connector you are wrapping. Doing it the way you are suggesting is definately easy to remove the tape, but it leaves the connector vulnerable to a poor seal at the edges, if that occurs. I'd argue that doing it that way, is taking away the benefit of why you use Mastic tape in the first place. Super88 is meant primarilly just for UV resilient. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Super33 or Super88 - Mastic - Super33 or Super88 This is how it should be done - this is how carriers do it, this is how old time ham operators do it Period ! Try to re-invent the wheel is asking for trouble Tape from the bottom to the top to form shingles JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I'm going to have to argue with you guys The purpose of the Mastic tape is that it creates a bond that fills the nooks and cranties of the item that you are waterproofing. So that if the Super88 leaks, it can't get to the connector. The two biggest places water gets into the connection is the two ends where the taping ends, NOT just condensing through the material. If you use Super 88 on the inside layer, you are creating a CONDUIT for moisture to pass through, IF water enters in through one of the two ends (far edges of taping). It is VERY difficult to get a complete seal where the tape toughes the Antenna and the end of the connector, reason being the antenna surface is perpendicular to the connector you are wrapping. Doing it the way you are suggesting is definately easy to remove the tape, but it leaves the connector vulnerable to a poor seal at the edges, if that occurs. I'd argue that doing it that way, is taking away the benefit of why you use Mastic tape in the first place. Super88 is meant primarilly just for UV resilient. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.12/724 - Release Date: 3/16/2007 12:12 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
This is not something that is following a certain antenna type. It has more to do with the weather sealing technique than anything I think. I believe that the best practices for this are becoming clear from feedback we are seeing here and I sure appreciate everyone's feedback on this. Maybe we should start a member's Wiki on WISP best practices. Then we can mold the best practices over time on the Wiki from what is posted there. This would certainly be a valuable member benefit. Scriv George Rogato wrote: Any particular type of antenna this is happening to? John Scrivner wrote: Thanks Rick. I will pass this along to our techs so they can start implementing this. I know they seal the heck out of things and it is really bizarre to me how any water is getting in there but it is. If they have questions about your process they may be contacting you directly. Many thanks, Scriv Rick Smith wrote: Scotch Super 33 tape over the connectors, right close as you can get to the antenna, all the way down the lmr past where the rubber joint is - then mastic over that - then 33 again over the mastic. This is called a courtesy wrap, cause if you ever have to open it back up, you slice down to the tape inside, and it peels right off quickly without fighting the mastic. Since I started doin this, I've NEVER had a moisture problem. Also, wrap it when it's dry outside so you don't lock humidity into it... temperature changes will then just wreak havoc on you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
sigh Larsen, when can you and I hook up and do a video of the RIGHT way to weather seal? hehehehe First, John, I'm gonna assume that your guys know nothing so please take no offence. The FIRST and MOST important step in a good water seal is the antenna! Jer would be quick to remind me of that painful lesson as it applies to the old Mobile Mark black 9dB omni antennas. The antenna connector at the bottom was SCREWED into the mast below the weep hole. Water would eventually wick down into the connection via the threads, no matter how good you were at weather sealing. I LOVE those antennas, they work incredibly well, but they just don't last. You have to watch for things like people using those danged bulkhead connectors with the flat sides on them. Also watch for the nut on the outside of the connection. If it's not also covered there's a spot for water to wick down into the connection. When I run into those flat sided connectors I will stretch my mastic very thin to make sure that I get the goop down into the cut down area. The down side to this is that the mastic will eventually ooze into the threads and make the connection REALLY hard to take apart. I always figured that a connection that's easy to take apart will also be more likely to leak though. I try to get antennas that have a longer connector on them when I can. I also require that antennas I use have room for a whole roll of tape between the connectors and any other parts. If I can't put the tape on correctly it will leak someday. I tried using silicone on the connectors but that eventually shrinks and there's something in it that corrodes the connectors. Bad idea. I tried putting a layer of black tape on before I put on the mastic, then I decided that that was a silly idea because that inside layer is the water proofing and if it's easy to take off it's more likely to leak. On the new Maxrad hpol adjustable beam sectors that I like so much I take them to a machine shop and cut off part of the braketry so that I can seal things up better. I'm not afraid to modify the mounting systems on antennas if it'll let me do a better job of sealing them up. I only use high end connectors. Times Microwave all the way. Here's how I seal a connector: Use one wrap of scotch 2228 mastic. Stretch it to half it's original width and overlap each layer by half. This give you a two layer thick coating. Start at the bottom about a half inch PAST the heat shrink. Heat shrink is NOT water tight. It's a strain relief... Up near the connector bulkhead end I will wrap the tape enough to make sure that there's a bit blob of it around anything that might allow water in, especially the bulkhead it's self. Then wrap back down to the middle of the connector. Next I use Scotch 33+ tape (none of the cheap crap gets used anywhere here). This gets two layers that are overlapped by half. Start so that your LAST layer goes up. It should leave a pattern kinda like siding. You want the water to run off of the seams not follow down into them. This needs to be wrapped so that it's smooth, no creases allowed. A crease is an air gap, air = water. Stretch the tape just enough to pull to all of the wrinkles, too tight and over time it'll actually slide off of the connector. It may do this over time anyway but once it's squished the mastic into all of the nooks and crannies it doesn't seem to matter much. Not making your tape too tight on the diameter transitions seems to help with the problem though. I just don't have water problems anymore. Things that I've seen/done that fail. Almost always. Heat shrink. The glue hardens when temps drop and you loose the water tight seal. Yes I know it works in water wells, but the temps there are steady. Duct tape. Degrades in sunlight and many glues are water soluble. Black tape alone, see above. Silicone, shrinks and corrodes connectors. Nothing. I know that there's a gasket in there, I know that the factory says you don't have to seal them. They will leak. Reusing antennas or connectors that got water in them. If you look closely you'll see that the center pins have a discoloring. That's corrosion and you'll never get a good connection out of them again. In fact I usually chance the coax too. Hope this helps! marlon Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:29 AM Subject: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Tom DeReggi wrote: I'm going to have to argue with you guys That's easy. http://www.dslreports.com/speak/slideshow/14670691?c=914265ret=L2ZvcnVtL3JlbWFyaywxNDY1MTI2Mn5kYXlzPTk5OTl%2Bc3RhcnQ9MjA%3D Se how each layer comes down a little bit further? This method has worked great through Michigan weather. The important part is the conformal sealing. Silicone is junk for sure. Use on of the products I posted in the many thanks thread. Also, I use scotch 2210, not 130c for my mastic. Brian The purpose of the Mastic tape is that it creates a bond that fills the nooks and cranties of the item that you are waterproofing. So that if the Super88 leaks, it can't get to the connector. The two biggest places water gets into the connection is the two ends where the taping ends, NOT just condensing through the material. If you use Super 88 on the inside layer, you are creating a CONDUIT for moisture to pass through, IF water enters in through one of the two ends (far edges of taping). It is VERY difficult to get a complete seal where the tape toughes the Antenna and the end of the connector, reason being the antenna surface is perpendicular to the connector you are wrapping. Doing it the way you are suggesting is definately easy to remove the tape, but it leaves the connector vulnerable to a poor seal at the edges, if that occurs. I'd argue that doing it that way, is taking away the benefit of why you use Mastic tape in the first place. Super88 is meant primarilly just for UV resilient. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
We started using Coax-Seal about two years ago and have never had a problem since. It's moldable so you wrap the connector and then form it around the connections. Quick, easy and cheap. Even on mountaintops at 9000ft elevation with 60mph winds and freezing rain/ice we have never had a problem. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Tom DeReggi wrote: I'm going to have to argue with you guys That's easy. http://www.dslreports.com/speak/slideshow/14670691?c=914265ret=L2ZvcnVtL3JlbWFyaywxNDY1MTI2Mn5kYXlzPTk5OTl%2Bc3RhcnQ9MjA%3D Oh, one more thing, I stop the reversed layer at the connector. It does not go down onto the chassis connector when I do it. Same on the other end, I don't take the first layer onto the feedline. It's only purpose for me is to make removal a little better by keeping just the cable connector clean. (refer to link for pic of cable) Brian Se how each layer comes down a little bit further? This method has worked great through Michigan weather. The important part is the conformal sealing. Silicone is junk for sure. Use on of the products I posted in the many thanks thread. Also, I use scotch 2210, not 130c for my mastic. Brian The purpose of the Mastic tape is that it creates a bond that fills the nooks and cranties of the item that you are waterproofing. So that if the Super88 leaks, it can't get to the connector. The two biggest places water gets into the connection is the two ends where the taping ends, NOT just condensing through the material. If you use Super 88 on the inside layer, you are creating a CONDUIT for moisture to pass through, IF water enters in through one of the two ends (far edges of taping). It is VERY difficult to get a complete seal where the tape toughes the Antenna and the end of the connector, reason being the antenna surface is perpendicular to the connector you are wrapping. Doing it the way you are suggesting is definately easy to remove the tape, but it leaves the connector vulnerable to a poor seal at the edges, if that occurs. I'd argue that doing it that way, is taking away the benefit of why you use Mastic tape in the first place. Super88 is meant primarilly just for UV resilient. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
I have never seen the stuff, but by looking it up, it looks like it is kind of like clay. It that true? Is it moldable like clay? Brian Travis Johnson wrote: We started using Coax-Seal about two years ago and have never had a problem since. It's moldable so you wrap the connector and then form it around the connections. Quick, easy and cheap. Even on mountaintops at 9000ft elevation with 60mph winds and freezing rain/ice we have never had a problem. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Well, kind of... it's more like a soft rubbery compound. You can mold it into any shape and it's very easy to work with... the only problem is getting it back off when the temp is below zero... that takes a little work... ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I have never seen the stuff, but by looking it up, it looks like it is kind of like clay. It that true? Is it moldable like clay? Brian Travis Johnson wrote: We started using Coax-Seal about two years ago and have never had a problem since. It's moldable so you wrap the connector and then form it around the connections. Quick, easy and cheap. Even on mountaintops at 9000ft elevation with 60mph winds and freezing rain/ice we have never had a problem. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I tried using silicone on the connectors but that eventually shrinks and there's something in it that corrodes the connectors. Bad idea. Acetic Acid (aka vinegar) is the byproduct of the curing process. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Same here. Coax Seal is GREAT!!! Travis Johnson wrote: We started using Coax-Seal about two years ago and have never had a problem since. It's moldable so you wrap the connector and then form it around the connections. Quick, easy and cheap. Even on mountaintops at 9000ft elevation with 60mph winds and freezing rain/ice we have never had a problem. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Where do you get it? Mario Blair Davis wrote: Same here. Coax Seal is GREAT!!! Travis Johnson wrote: We started using Coax-Seal about two years ago and have never had a problem since. It's moldable so you wrap the connector and then form it around the connections. Quick, easy and cheap. Even on mountaintops at 9000ft elevation with 60mph winds and freezing rain/ice we have never had a problem. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
Marlon, Now thats a good explanation of how to do waterproofing correctly, that you made. The secret to good waterproofing is the right amount of stretch of the Mastic tape. Its the stretch that allows the tape to optimally bond to its surface and fill the gaps. Just pushing the goop in place does not allow it to bond optimally. Remember temperature causes things to expand and contract. Mastic tape is NOT glue. It sticks to itself very well, but not necessarilly flush against other surfaces. Anyway, there are many ways to skin a cat, as this thread has shown. . And the third party Kit products were made for a reason, to simplify the process. I'm sure most of them work as those of you have given testimonials. But using good old Mastic, and Super 88 (or 33) is a cost effective way to do it, well. For those that want to create the internal non-stick layer so be it, but don't give up the tension applying the Mastic tape, as that is what is making the seal. And make sure it extends past the inner layer as much as possible, so it can bond to the ingress area. (Note: I stated Tension on the Mastic, not the Super 88). Personally, I see little reason to remove a connector from an antenna once its been installed. So I don't worry much about taking the goop off. I deal with it, the few times its required. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress sigh Larsen, when can you and I hook up and do a video of the RIGHT way to weather seal? hehehehe First, John, I'm gonna assume that your guys know nothing so please take no offence. The FIRST and MOST important step in a good water seal is the antenna! Jer would be quick to remind me of that painful lesson as it applies to the old Mobile Mark black 9dB omni antennas. The antenna connector at the bottom was SCREWED into the mast below the weep hole. Water would eventually wick down into the connection via the threads, no matter how good you were at weather sealing. I LOVE those antennas, they work incredibly well, but they just don't last. You have to watch for things like people using those danged bulkhead connectors with the flat sides on them. Also watch for the nut on the outside of the connection. If it's not also covered there's a spot for water to wick down into the connection. When I run into those flat sided connectors I will stretch my mastic very thin to make sure that I get the goop down into the cut down area. The down side to this is that the mastic will eventually ooze into the threads and make the connection REALLY hard to take apart. I always figured that a connection that's easy to take apart will also be more likely to leak though. I try to get antennas that have a longer connector on them when I can. I also require that antennas I use have room for a whole roll of tape between the connectors and any other parts. If I can't put the tape on correctly it will leak someday. I tried using silicone on the connectors but that eventually shrinks and there's something in it that corrodes the connectors. Bad idea. I tried putting a layer of black tape on before I put on the mastic, then I decided that that was a silly idea because that inside layer is the water proofing and if it's easy to take off it's more likely to leak. On the new Maxrad hpol adjustable beam sectors that I like so much I take them to a machine shop and cut off part of the braketry so that I can seal things up better. I'm not afraid to modify the mounting systems on antennas if it'll let me do a better job of sealing them up. I only use high end connectors. Times Microwave all the way. Here's how I seal a connector: Use one wrap of scotch 2228 mastic. Stretch it to half it's original width and overlap each layer by half. This give you a two layer thick coating. Start at the bottom about a half inch PAST the heat shrink. Heat shrink is NOT water tight. It's a strain relief... Up near the connector bulkhead end I will wrap the tape enough to make sure that there's a bit blob of it around anything that might allow water in, especially the bulkhead it's self. Then wrap back down to the middle of the connector. Next I use Scotch 33+ tape (none of the cheap crap gets used anywhere here). This gets two layers that are overlapped by half. Start so that your LAST layer goes up. It should leave a pattern kinda like siding. You want the water to run off of the seams not follow down into them. This needs to be wrapped so that it's smooth, no creases allowed. A crease is an air gap, air = water. Stretch the tape just enough to pull to all of the wrinkles, too tight and over time it'll actually slide off of the connector. It may do this over time anyway
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Ingress
There are a lot of places that sell it... I buy it from Electrocomm in the large rolls. I think it's 1/2 wide by 12ft long for $7 each... we use about 6 inches per seal... so that's 24 seals for roughly $.30 each. Here is the actual website: http://www.coaxseal.com They have a list of distributors, etc. on that page. Travis Microserv Mario Pommier wrote: Where do you get it? Mario Blair Davis wrote: Same here. Coax Seal is GREAT!!! Travis Johnson wrote: We started using Coax-Seal about two years ago and have never had a problem since. It's moldable so you wrap the connector and then form it around the connections. Quick, easy and cheap. Even on mountaintops at 9000ft elevation with 60mph winds and freezing rain/ice we have never had a problem. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: I would like a bit of feedback from those of you who have been installing outdoor antennas for a while. I have a problem that I would like to see fixed. It seems that after every long rain we see problems with the occasional connection outside at the antenna getting water into it. We use the Scotch seal mastic tape to seal the connections. The guys do not like having to climb and they work hard to try to make sure we do not get these problems and yet they come back. I would like to hear what you veterans out there are doing to make sure the water stays out. Thanks, Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
