I think the general thinking is that WISP's shouldn't have to pay to make the
Governments' job easier...
John
-Original Message-
From: Sam Tetherow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 5, 2006 11:29 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about
!-
- Original Message -
From:
David Sovereen
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent
about this?
Many of you seem to be of the belief that the
proposed bill requires you to keep records of the content
- Original Message -
From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? 2 diferent issues at
hand
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, George Rogato wrote:
1) Does the government have
)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message -
From:
Carl A Jeptha
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent
about this?
last time I thought Wispa was international and if it is not I
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, George Rogato wrote:
Most likely wispa will act on this. But, ultimately, it comes down
to does the membership of wispa want to do this.
Which is what I said in my first post on the subject.
I don't mean to be rude, but shouldn't the paying members that make
up the wispa
Well now I don't feel so alone in my opinions :)
I still consider you a wisp, isn't that what brought us all here together?
George
Butch Evans wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, George Rogato wrote:
Most likely wispa will act on this. But, ultimately, it comes down to
does the membership of wispa
:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
The problem with all of this is that most ISP's wireless or land line
historically do not get involved in a trade association and work
together for the common good.
Land line ISP's didn't join together and wisps are not joining together
- Original Message -
From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Because Im personna non grata with WISPA and Part-15.
sigh
Says who? Last I knew you
/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message -
From:
David Sovereen
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent
about this?
Many of you seem to be of the belief that the
proposed bill requires you to keep records
- From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Because Im personna non grata with WISPA and Part-15.
sigh
Says who? Last I knew you were a paid member. And you've
meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message -
From: David Sovereen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
I agree with your
!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message -
From: David Sovereen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
I
I want to preface this email with the statement that I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT
support this law, it is an invasion of privacy and places an undue
burden of responsibility on an ISP.
Now that being said, as I read the article, and as some have pointed out
the information being requested for archive
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Where can I find out what WISPA's official positions are? Where can I see
the letters and actions WISPA has sent on behalf of its members? The root
of my questions is, How do I know that the money I spend is making a
difference?
I've joined
PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
You just need to pay attention here and on the private list.
It would be nice if someone had the time to work on the web site more. So
that everyone would know what we're going right now! But those of us
working are too busy doing
- Original Message -
From: David Sovereen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
I've only been on the list for about four weeks. I learned about it at
the
Mikrotik User
ot; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
You just need to pay attention here and on the private list.
It would be nice if someone had the time to work on the web site more
There are still things that can be learned for our Canadian members.
Perhaps some of the Canadian members can form a committee to watch
regulatory, legislative, and politics in Canada.
There are parallels between the US Canada and they should be taken
advantage of.
- Peter
Carl A Jeptha
I don't know Mark, why don't you go do something about it.
George
Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060601/ts_nm/security_internet_usa_dc
Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff?
Or, is this issue like certain others, where WISPA founders take contrary
Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff?
Personally, I'm counting on it, so I can get the company to buy me that
multi-terabyte NAS I've always wanted. I'm running out of disk space at
home to store all my pr0n.
David Smith
MVN.net
--
WISPA
I wouldn't imagine that this responsibility would fall on us WISPs, but to
our upstream providers like BellSouth...etc. Why would they want to deal
with the 20,000 piss ants of the world when all they have to do is back up
stream two hops and catch all the traffic? Common sense tells me this will
Internet, NO WIRES!
-
- Original Message -
From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
I
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
-
- Original Message -
From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about
, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
I don't know Mark, why don't you go do something about it.
George
Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060601/ts_nm/security_internet_usa_dc
Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff
- Original Message -
From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
You have enough clients that it would bankrupt you to build a server to
log
your HTTP SMTP
I doubt that my upstream provider has any records of my customer IP
assignments, so it is my belief that any records keeping and logging
would fall on me. I'm not big but I do NOT consider my operation as
being run by piss ants either.
Do you consider the majority of WISP's to be run by piss
@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
I don't know Mark, why don't you go do something about it.
George
Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060601/ts_nm/security_internet_usa_dc
Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop
I was assuming the same thing. I thought that European isps were already
required to do this.
George
Mac Dearman wrote:
I wouldn't imagine that this responsibility would fall on us WISPs, but to
our upstream providers like BellSouth...etc. Why would they want to deal
with the 20,000 piss ants
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force the last mile
provider
- Original Message -
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Mark
I didn't realize you were persona non grata with wispa. It's the first
that I have heard
]] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force the last mile
provider to log it all, so as to bankrupt the competition.
North East Oregon Fastnet
Dearman
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force
General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Lonnie,
When I used the term piss ant it was referring to the working guys of
this business. We all know how the ants work :-) doggedly for a small
portion of the whole
It may seem like a 'no brainer' to you, but since when did an idea being
brain-dead-stupid stop the government from trying or actually enforcing
it?
There is one common thread that runs through all things government does
when
it is seeking to help the common folk - a complete and total lack
PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Just try and imagine how much storage you would require for 2 years
worth of traffic. Guys are joking about it being good
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force the last mile
provider to log it all, so
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff?
Why aren't YOU doing something about it?
Or, is this issue like certain others, where WISPA founders take
contrary positions to the rest of the members and side with big
Hmmm, it
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force the
last mile provider to log it all, so as to bankrupt the
competition.
Common sense tells ME that if it were going to affect ME, to the
point of bankrupcy, the I would be doing
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Because Im personna non grata with WISPA and Part-15.
Perhaps it's your winning personality? I don't know...maybe it's
something else.
I don't share the same political goals, and as such, I'm not in any
position to do squat.
You don't have a
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
I'm not big but I do NOT consider my operation as being run by piss
ants either.
Do you consider the majority of WISP's to be run by piss ants and
not worthy of any recognition and responsibility? I sincerely hope
not because I have no desire to
The problem with all of this is that most ISP's wireless or land line
historically do not get involved in a trade association and work
together for the common good.
Land line ISP's didn't join together and wisps are not joining together
either.
Here WISPA has been created and hardly anyone
Thank you very much.
As for work groups, YES Butch, even YOU a NON wisp can join in a work
group and contribute.
I will say once again,
If ANYONE in our industry can come up with a work group, wisp centric
that will help our industry and our wisps, we would WELCOME you to do so
and create
Did anyone READ the link?
They are NOT asking us to archive content, but IP addresses of sites
browsed to, e-mail sent to and so on. Not content.
If Congress is going to be asked to pass legislation ordering Internet
providers to retain data they won't be asked for content of that data
but
If it would be a huge burden to small businesses, then the SBA can file
under the Small Business Burden Act (forget what it is actually called).
The federal gov't cannot create regulations that would be a hardship for
SMB owners.
BTW, imagine having 2M BB users and how much space that would
Actually, the ACLU declined to meet with the AG FBI saying basically
You have got to be kidding.
Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Did anyone notice that the ACLU hasn't peeped a negative word against
requiring the logging of all internet use by individuals? We're on our
own, as individuals, as
All of this is pedantic.
It seems consensus is this is a crazy idea.
Everyone agrees.
Problems:
Hardship.
Too much info.
No chain of evidence.
Unsecure.
No space or time.
Unreasonable.
Who do we send the letter to?
I'll help a board member or Mark K. compose one.
Regards,
Peter
--
WISPA
Not only true in DC, but to the general public as well, Larry.
Larry Yunker wrote:
I doubt quite seriously that any heads of executive branch departments
realize that broadband/internet services are sometimes/often? provided
by companies with a staff of less than ten and gross revenues less
I don't think anyone believes you will go Quietly :)
However, when you make that noise, are you aiming it at your Congress
Critter?
Or just into the ether that is a listserv?
In the time it took to write and read the 30 or so posts on the subject,
you could have written a press release or
!
-
- Original Message -
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
All of this is pedantic.
It seems consensus is this is a crazy idea.
Everyone agrees.
Problems:
Hardship
I could be wrong but as I have followed this thread there are 2 issues
at hand.
1) Does the government have a right to know the actions of Americans on
the internet?
2) Is this a responsibility of the ISP to bear the burden of gathering
this information or should the burden be carried by
Then it is a boondoggle. All of the web traffic will be to some
off-shore proxy. The same with email.
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
Blair Davis wrote:
Did anyone READ the link?
They are NOT asking us to archive content, but IP addresses of sites
browsed to, e-mail sent to and so
While I agree with your breakdown and the general statement that #1
should be decided on by the country as a whole. I think it is up to us
as an industry that understands the implications of what is being asked
for to make a statement about #1 even if it is just a clarification of
the
From:
Pete Davis
To: WISPA General List ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent
about this?
If/when the feds require it, I guess the way to do it would be
to run Ethereal in fully promiscuous mode on a mirro
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Why aren't YOU doing something about it?
What DO you want me to do?
What do _I_ want you to do? Do what you seem to expect others to do
on your behalf, which you seem to think they are not/will not do!
I was sold on the notion that we should
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, George Rogato wrote:
1) Does the government have a right to know the actions of
Americans on the internet?
This is not really at issue. At least it is not really of any
concern for us here.
2) Is this a responsibility of the ISP to bear the burden of
gathering this
Butch,
Most likely wispa will act on this. But, ultimately, it comes down to
does the membership of wispa want to do this.
I don't mean to be rude, but shouldn't the paying members that make up
the wispa membership decide what wispa acts on or not?
It's not that I disagree with any of this,
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