RE: latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi
I'm disappointed in the statement from the FCC. This was a chance to clarify their position on this, but it's still as vague as ever. What is a commercial establishment? Does that include K-12 or Higher Ed? What about a corporate HQ? I'm also disappointed that the wireless vendors have been quiet on this issue as well. Where is Cisco, Aruba, Rukus, et. al who provide us with these tools? One reading of the FCC notice is that the product they market and sell is illegal. I feel they should be leading the charge with the FCC for clarification for us, their customers. Thomas Carter Network and Operations Manager Austin College 903-813-2564 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi http://www.fcc.gov/document/warning-wi-fi-blocking-prohibited Which would imply that a subset of our tools are illegal: https://wirednot.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/are-wlan-vendors-selling-illegal-jammers/ Complicated times. -Lee ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi
You can't deauth the users, but you can make one of the requirements for living in the dorms don't put up a hotspot. (I assume this is where most of us see problems.) -- Hunter Fuller Network Engineer VBRH M-9B +1 256 824 5331 Office of Information Technology The University of Alabama in Huntsville Systems and Infrastructure I am part of the UAH Safe Zone LGBTQIA support network: http://www.uah.edu/student-affairs/safe-zone On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Chuck Anderson c...@wpi.edu wrote: What if our users see this news and start pushing back on bringing their own Wi-Fi to campus? If we have to allow it, and the WLAN becomes unusable due to all the overlapping channel 2 and channel 5 devices etc., what do we tell our users and the administration? Sorry, the FCC says we can't force these users to abstain from using their own Wi-Fi devices, even if they interfere. That's the problem with FCC Part 15--“must accept interference from other sources”. The best we can do is nicely ask them to change channels... On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 02:44:16PM +, Hector J Rios wrote: Agree. A clearer definition as to what a commercial WiFi network operator would help. I don't know what to do with this information. Do these FCC laws trump our WiFi policies? I can see where users could take advantage of this advisory. Too many questions. Hector Rios Louisiana State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi I'm disappointed in the statement from the FCC. This was a chance to clarify their position on this, but it's still as vague as ever. What is a commercial establishment? Does that include K-12 or Higher Ed? What about a corporate HQ? I'm also disappointed that the wireless vendors have been quiet on this issue as well. Where is Cisco, Aruba, Rukus, et. al who provide us with these tools? One reading of the FCC notice is that the product they market and sell is illegal. I feel they should be leading the charge with the FCC for clarification for us, their customers. Thomas Carter Network and Operations Manager Austin College 903-813-2564 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi http://www.fcc.gov/document/warning-wi-fi-blocking-prohibited Which would imply that a subset of our tools are illegal: https://wirednot.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/are-wlan-vendors-selling-illegal-jammers/ Complicated times. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi
If we were to impose that on student residents, why couldn't Marriott do the same to hotel and conference guests? On January 28, 2015 11:05:53 AM EST, Hunter Fuller hf0...@uah.edu wrote: You can't deauth the users, but you can make one of the requirements for living in the dorms don't put up a hotspot. (I assume this is where most of us see problems.) -- Hunter Fuller Network Engineer VBRH M-9B +1 256 824 5331 Office of Information Technology The University of Alabama in Huntsville Systems and Infrastructure I am part of the UAH Safe Zone LGBTQIA support network: http://www.uah.edu/student-affairs/safe-zone On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Chuck Anderson c...@wpi.edu wrote: What if our users see this news and start pushing back on bringing their own Wi-Fi to campus? If we have to allow it, and the WLAN becomes unusable due to all the overlapping channel 2 and channel 5 devices etc., what do we tell our users and the administration? Sorry, the FCC says we can't force these users to abstain from using their own Wi-Fi devices, even if they interfere. That's the problem with FCC Part 15--“must accept interference from other sources”. The best we can do is nicely ask them to change channels... On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 02:44:16PM +, Hector J Rios wrote: Agree. A clearer definition as to what a commercial WiFi network operator would help. I don't know what to do with this information. Do these FCC laws trump our WiFi policies? I can see where users could take advantage of this advisory. Too many questions. Hector Rios Louisiana State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi I'm disappointed in the statement from the FCC. This was a chance to clarify their position on this, but it's still as vague as ever. What is a commercial establishment? Does that include K-12 or Higher Ed? What about a corporate HQ? I'm also disappointed that the wireless vendors have been quiet on this issue as well. Where is Cisco, Aruba, Rukus, et. al who provide us with these tools? One reading of the FCC notice is that the product they market and sell is illegal. I feel they should be leading the charge with the FCC for clarification for us, their customers. Thomas Carter Network and Operations Manager Austin College 903-813-2564 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi http://www.fcc.gov/document/warning-wi-fi-blocking-prohibited Which would imply that a subset of our tools are illegal: https://wirednot.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/are-wlan-vendors-selling-illegal-jammers/ Complicated times. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi
I don't really think they are being vague. I'm no lawyer, but it looks like they are really targeting commercial ventures. Otherwise, why make the effort to define no hotel, convention center, or commercial establishment... They could just say No place providing networking services should seek to interfere... I think this is a 'you best not do what Marriot did', and to the other people out there, thread lightly... Regarding the jamming... If the FCC really had a problem with the Wifi mitigation technology that all the wireless providers offer, don't you think they would have received a 'cease and desist' notice from the FCC? Ryan H Turner Senior Network Engineer The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill CB 1150 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 +1 919 445 0113 Office +1 919 274 7926 Mobile -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Anderson Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 11:04 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi What if our users see this news and start pushing back on bringing their own Wi-Fi to campus? If we have to allow it, and the WLAN becomes unusable due to all the overlapping channel 2 and channel 5 devices etc., what do we tell our users and the administration? Sorry, the FCC says we can't force these users to abstain from using their own Wi-Fi devices, even if they interfere. That's the problem with FCC Part 15--“must accept interference from other sources”. The best we can do is nicely ask them to change channels... On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 02:44:16PM +, Hector J Rios wrote: Agree. A clearer definition as to what a commercial WiFi network operator would help. I don't know what to do with this information. Do these FCC laws trump our WiFi policies? I can see where users could take advantage of this advisory. Too many questions. Hector Rios Louisiana State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi I'm disappointed in the statement from the FCC. This was a chance to clarify their position on this, but it's still as vague as ever. What is a commercial establishment? Does that include K-12 or Higher Ed? What about a corporate HQ? I'm also disappointed that the wireless vendors have been quiet on this issue as well. Where is Cisco, Aruba, Rukus, et. al who provide us with these tools? One reading of the FCC notice is that the product they market and sell is illegal. I feel they should be leading the charge with the FCC for clarification for us, their customers. Thomas Carter Network and Operations Manager Austin College 903-813-2564 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi http://www.fcc.gov/document/warning-wi-fi-blocking-prohibited Which would imply that a subset of our tools are illegal: https://wirednot.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/are-wlan-vendors-selling-ill egal-jammers/ Complicated times. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi
We do have that requirement, but the problem is really implementation. Would you rather: a) Spend time and manpower running all over campus hunting down all these rogue devices b) Use technology to encourage students not to use these rogue devices Thomas Carter Network and Operations Manager Austin College 903-813-2564 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hunter Fuller Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 10:06 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi You can't deauth the users, but you can make one of the requirements for living in the dorms don't put up a hotspot. (I assume this is where most of us see problems.) -- Hunter Fuller Network Engineer VBRH M-9B +1 256 824 5331 Office of Information Technology The University of Alabama in Huntsville Systems and Infrastructure I am part of the UAH Safe Zone LGBTQIA support network: http://www.uah.edu/student-affairs/safe-zone On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Chuck Anderson c...@wpi.edu wrote: What if our users see this news and start pushing back on bringing their own Wi-Fi to campus? If we have to allow it, and the WLAN becomes unusable due to all the overlapping channel 2 and channel 5 devices etc., what do we tell our users and the administration? Sorry, the FCC says we can't force these users to abstain from using their own Wi-Fi devices, even if they interfere. That's the problem with FCC Part 15--“must accept interference from other sources”. The best we can do is nicely ask them to change channels... On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 02:44:16PM +, Hector J Rios wrote: Agree. A clearer definition as to what a commercial WiFi network operator would help. I don't know what to do with this information. Do these FCC laws trump our WiFi policies? I can see where users could take advantage of this advisory. Too many questions. Hector Rios Louisiana State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi I'm disappointed in the statement from the FCC. This was a chance to clarify their position on this, but it's still as vague as ever. What is a commercial establishment? Does that include K-12 or Higher Ed? What about a corporate HQ? I'm also disappointed that the wireless vendors have been quiet on this issue as well. Where is Cisco, Aruba, Rukus, et. al who provide us with these tools? One reading of the FCC notice is that the product they market and sell is illegal. I feel they should be leading the charge with the FCC for clarification for us, their customers. Thomas Carter Network and Operations Manager Austin College 903-813-2564 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi http://www.fcc.gov/document/warning-wi-fi-blocking-prohibited Which would imply that a subset of our tools are illegal: https://wirednot.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/are-wlan-vendors-selling-il legal-jammers/ Complicated times. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi
Agree. A clearer definition as to what a commercial WiFi network operator would help. I don't know what to do with this information. Do these FCC laws trump our WiFi policies? I can see where users could take advantage of this advisory. Too many questions. Hector Rios Louisiana State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi I'm disappointed in the statement from the FCC. This was a chance to clarify their position on this, but it's still as vague as ever. What is a commercial establishment? Does that include K-12 or Higher Ed? What about a corporate HQ? I'm also disappointed that the wireless vendors have been quiet on this issue as well. Where is Cisco, Aruba, Rukus, et. al who provide us with these tools? One reading of the FCC notice is that the product they market and sell is illegal. I feel they should be leading the charge with the FCC for clarification for us, their customers. Thomas Carter Network and Operations Manager Austin College 903-813-2564 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi http://www.fcc.gov/document/warning-wi-fi-blocking-prohibited Which would imply that a subset of our tools are illegal: https://wirednot.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/are-wlan-vendors-selling-illegal-jammers/ Complicated times. -Lee ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi
Well said, Thomas-- on all points. Lee H. Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME ITS, Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of Thomas Carter tcar...@austincollege.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 9:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi I'm disappointed in the statement from the FCC. This was a chance to clarify their position on this, but it's still as vague as ever. What is a commercial establishment? Does that include K-12 or Higher Ed? What about a corporate HQ? I'm also disappointed that the wireless vendors have been quiet on this issue as well. Where is Cisco, Aruba, Rukus, et. al who provide us with these tools? One reading of the FCC notice is that the product they market and sell is illegal. I feel they should be leading the charge with the FCC for clarification for us, their customers. Thomas Carter Network and Operations Manager Austin College 903-813-2564 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi http://www.fcc.gov/document/warning-wi-fi-blocking-prohibited Which would imply that a subset of our tools are illegal: https://wirednot.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/are-wlan-vendors-selling-illegal-jammers/ Complicated times. -Lee ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi
From the FCC's FAQ in respect to public vs private property : Jamming devices may not be used regardless of whether the device is operated on public or private property. If you own a jammer, do not continue to operate it. You risk substantial fines (of up to $16,000 for each violation or each day of a continuing violation, or up to $112,000 for a single act); seizure of the device by the government; and criminal imprisonment. Signal jammers do not respect property lines, and *federal law provides no exception that allows for the private or commercial use of a jammer*. The same FAQ explicitly names WiFi along with GPS and Cell as falling within this jurisdiction, although it appears to be referencing jamming devices, not jamming mechanisms (using NAK protocols, for instance). Nevertheless, they specify that jammers prevent your Wi-Fi enabled device from connecting to the Internet; and this appears to be the basis on which Marriott was pursued. In Marriott's case, protocol blocking not physical signal jamming was the method used. John On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 11:22 AM, John Rodkey rod...@westmont.edu wrote: Indeed! The statement clarifies aspects of this, but muddies others. WARNING: *Wi-Fi Blocking is Prohibited.* *Persons or Businesses* Causing Intentional Interference to Wi-Fi Hot Spots Are Subject to Enforcement Action We start with a general statement that (presumably) ALL blocking is prohibited. Then move on to Persons or Businesses ... are subject to enforcement. Are there entities which are neither Persons nor Businesses? To the best of my knowledge all enterprise wireless systems are operated by persons. If you aren't a Person and you aren't a Business, then you're in the clear: FCC won't be pursuing enforcement against you. For the rest of us who are persons... Then the statement notes a trend among commercial establishments, and cites the example of Marriott, and then muddies the water when it designates hotels, convention centers or other commercial establishments. How many colleges and universities host conferences during the summer? Would they be considered convention centers? Is student housing considered the equivalent to 'hotels' in the view of the law? We need Educause lawyers to pin this down... On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 6:32 AM, Thomas Carter tcar...@austincollege.edu wrote: I'm disappointed in the statement from the FCC. This was a chance to clarify their position on this, but it's still as vague as ever. What is a commercial establishment? Does that include K-12 or Higher Ed? What about a corporate HQ? I'm also disappointed that the wireless vendors have been quiet on this issue as well. Where is Cisco, Aruba, Rukus, et. al who provide us with these tools? One reading of the FCC notice is that the product they market and sell is illegal. I feel they should be leading the charge with the FCC for clarification for us, their customers. Thomas Carter Network and Operations Manager Austin College 903-813-2564 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] latest from FCC on de-authing Mi-Fi http://www.fcc.gov/document/warning-wi-fi-blocking-prohibited Which would imply that a subset of our tools are illegal: https://wirednot.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/are-wlan-vendors-selling-illegal-jammers/ Complicated times. -Lee ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. -- ---======--- Want to quickly check a system status or report a problem to the IT team? Use http://justme.westmont.edu Have a problem that requires tracking and IT email response? Use http://mayday.westmont.edu -- ---======--- Want to quickly check a system status or report a problem to the IT team? Use http://justme.westmont.edu Have a problem that requires tracking and IT email response? Use http://mayday.westmont.edu ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
