Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Blair Davis
I use a standard 1.25 or 1.5 inch antenna mast, (Radio Shack, Bursma, Channel Master, Winegaurd) in a 2 foot deep hole with 3 80lb bags of cement. They have worked for 4 years with a DB-24 on them Scott Reed wrote: I have a site where the only place to get a signal is about 5 off

RE: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread JohnnyO
Title: Message Mount it in a tree ? - the term "asthetics" generally triples our install price FYI ! JohnnyO -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott ReedSent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:05 AMTo:

RE: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Cliff
Title: Message JohnnyO, You ARE a pimp! Where the luv for your customer? Cliff Work 985-879-3219 www.cssla.com www.triparish.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:15 AM To: 'WISPA

Re: [WISPA] MRTG

2005-09-22 Thread Jory Privett
You can use either of the ones listed for WINDOWS. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MRTG Excuse my ignorance, but I don't see XP anywhere in

RE: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Scott Reed
Thanks for the responses.  I had originally thought 4 something, but looks like I will look at 1.5 and/or 2. I like that, Johnny.  $150 to paint the pole brown and the antenna grid and radio box green and who will see it beside a tree, which is where this one will go. Scott Reed Owner

[WISPA] Content Filtering

2005-09-22 Thread Scott Reed
I currently use SonicWall's Content Filter for my entire network. (No discussion about whether that is good or bad, please.  It is bringing me cutomers.)  Problem is cost. I can not afford $1000/yr for the subscription.  Anyone know of a content filter that is relativly inexpensive and works?

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
1.5 rigid or water pipe wouldn't ever move. Scott Reed wrote: Thanks for the responses. I had originally thought 4" something, but looks like I will look at 1.5" and/or 2". I like that, Johnny. $150 to paint the pole brown and the antenna grid and radio box green and who will

[WISPA] Content Filtering

2005-09-22 Thread Scott Reed
I currently use SonicWall's Content Filter for my entire network. (No discussion about whether that is good or bad, please. It is bringing me cutomers.) Problem is cost. I can not afford $1000/yr for the subscription. Anyone know of a content filter that is relativly inexpensive and

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Tim Wolfe
Hey Johhny, I love Ya' man, but don't EVER expect me to hire You for any painting jobs anytime soon!!, WTF??, Tim -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] Fw: smartBridges News- American Road Shows

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Title: smartBridges American Road Shows Here's a chance for some training if anyone wants to go. laters, Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
2" water pipe. It'll be strong, paintable etc. Make sure to did a hole that goes below the frost line and concrete it in. laters, Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread J. Vogel
I have used 1.5 (actually ~2 o.d.) galvanized water pipe to do this, works great. John Scott Reed wrote: Thanks for the responses. I had originally thought 4 something, but looks like I will look at 1.5 and/or 2. I like that, Johnny. $150 to paint the pole brown and the antenna grid and

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
That brings up another point, is Diameter outside or inside diameter. You want atleast 2 outside diameter. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent:

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Scott Reed
Thanks for the picture.  I may send that to the customer. I be they won't be able to find it. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: George [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Scott Reed
This one is probably going to be a 15dBi grid, but may be a 19. It is amazing how much torque there can be when the wind blows 10mph. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Scott Reed
I need to learn to type.  The post should have read: Thanks for the picture. I may send that to the customer. I bet they won't be able to find the antenna. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net

[WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Hi All, What can we do to get ready for Rita's landfall? I think that now's the time to get teams together and pre plan a few staging areas in the likely landfall areas. http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at3+shtml/145647.shtml?3day

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Title: Message lol I just did that yesterday. Took a bit of trimming to get the branches out of the way. But it was the only way to get over that corn field in the way! Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own

Re: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Oh yeah, and don't forget to cap the top if you are in an area that'll freeze. In the winter you'll get water inside and it'll eventually bust the pipe at ground level. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
I let Kenneth Carter at the FCC know we were going to try to get ready for Rita ahead of time and he'd like to be kept in the loop. I'll be forwarding him relevant emails. Please keep this thread clean and on topic. thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
How does all this mesh with the P-15 people? North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Are there any WISPA people left who can jump and run? I got the impression that those who could already did and are now already out there... A lot of folks have given a lot already, I suspect more than a few are tapped out. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Shrug. I figured we'd not wait this time. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
I agree. That's why I'm trying to get folks to think about this today not Monday! Who's close to the area and can fill the roll that Mac has in his area? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services

[WISPA] Request for Assistance

2005-09-22 Thread JohnnyO
We will be approx 30 miles east of the Eye which means we'll catch the brundt of the storm I am 13 miles inland but know we will lose all services as we usually do during a storm. I am in need of 10 VOIP ATA Devices to provide emergency services locally after the storm passes. I have sent my

RE: [WISPA] Request for Assistance

2005-09-22 Thread JohnnyO
And Mark - Keep Part-15 away from my backyard - or atleast a certain individual - The gators are hungry this time of year. JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:21 PM To: 'WISPA General

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Butch Evans
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: How does all this mesh with the P-15 people? I did not see anything on the Part-15 list. Perhaps you can forward the message to them. I am sure they would appreciate the heads up that being prepared is a good thing. (sheesh!) -- Butch Evans BPS

RE: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread JohnnyO
If you get it to Part-15 today - maybe they won't be Three Dollars Short and a month late eh ? :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA]

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
You going to ride it out? All the satellite loops I seeI just think it will head more north and less west. We'll see. JohnnyO wrote: Marlon - Lake Arthur, Louisiana - home of apgwireless.com - we'll be just to the east side of the storm when she hits... What a mean bitch this will be.

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
OK, so we should plan on being able to stage people and stuff there? 30 miles might be close enough that you'll have no water or power or much of anything else if the gusts keep topping 200mph. Who's got alternate locations? Also, for any potential staging areas how about some gps

RE: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread JohnnyO
Marlon - plan on staging here - We are 13 miles inland - 17ft above sea level - We will have power / water on-site - rounding up a 2nd generator as we speak. JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent:

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
I don't think I can make it down. We did too much new stuff this year and I can't take care of myself right now. If it's really bad I can try though. Hopefully there will be people from the region that can make it in. Might be tough with two of them back to back, two weeks apart. laters

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Do you have gps info for us? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless

RE: [WISPA] Mounting pole size

2005-09-22 Thread Cliff
Title: Message For what you charge, you should be able to stand there and hold it for your customer :) Cliff Work 985-879-3219 www.cssla.com www.triparish.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, September 22,

RE: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Cliff
JohnnyO, That sounds like a lot of cement rubble to have to save your ass from underneath. Cliff - Work 985-879-3219 www.cssla.com www.triparish.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:47 PM

RE: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Cliff
Alternate location, Houma, LA, home of the JohnnyO wannabe! Maybe too far east to do much good though the offer is on the table! Cliff - Work 985-879-3219 www.cssla.com www.triparish.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K.

Re: [WISPA] MRTG

2005-09-22 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
http://www.openxtra.co.uk/support/documentation/mrtg-getting-started-guide.pdf I have a nice link here, but none of the pictures show up in my Adobe. Is it my settings? Barry at Mutual Data wrote: Brian, Look here, all in one package fairly straightforward install.

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Cool. Who knows where things will really end up. What's the gps location for where you'd want people/things if it comes to that? Probably address too. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services

[WISPA] FW: Hurricane Rita - Please Circulate to your ISPs

2005-09-22 Thread Jory Privett
Please circulate this to your ISPs. The FCC is preparing for Hurricane Rita. The FCC has well established procedures for assessing telecommunications outages and facilitating restoration. This is true of broadcast, spectrum, and satellite. Of course our procedures for assessing and

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Tim Wolfe
Make some room, and stock up on the Coors light. I'll be there soon I hope? Cliff wrote: JohnnyO, That sounds like a lot of cement rubble to have to save your ass from underneath. Cliff - Work 985-879-3219 www.cssla.com www.triparish.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[WISPA] Keep up the good work guys!

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm?pg=articleDocID=2557 Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)

RE: [WISP] [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Eric Rogers
I also have server space I am willing to part with. Mail me off-list and I'll set anyone up with temporarily. Eric Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] (317) 831-3000 Ext 200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Thu 9/22/2005 3:25

RE: [WISP] [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Scott Reed
I have space, too.  Only a T1 in and out, but could host some e-mail or webpages. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: Eric Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:

Re: [WISPA] MRTG

2005-09-22 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
You ever going to come over this way? How about this. I buy you lunch and you give me a hand with MRTG. Deal? :) Barry at Mutual Data wrote: Brian, Look here, all in one package fairly straightforward install. http://www.openxtra.co.uk/products/mrtg-xtra.php Free version too!!! Barry

Re: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread John Scrivner
There are about 100 or so unrelated group efforts (none any more powerful or better than the other) all doing fine in bringing immediate access to technology and communications without having Part-15 speak for them in the gulf area and without any firm structural centralized management so it

Re: [WISPA] MRTG

2005-09-22 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Oops. Sorry list. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: You ever going to come over this way? How about this. I buy you lunch and you give me a hand with MRTG. Deal? :) Barry at Mutual Data wrote: Brian, Look here, all in one package fairly straightforward install.

RE: [WISP] [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Rick Smith
Title: Re: [WISP] [WISPA] Rita Hey, if people want to send me servers, I'll take em in my new datacenter :) Got a 15 meg feed here, mostly unused in both directions. From: Eric Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric RogersSent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:03 PMTo: WISPA

Re: [WISP] [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Title: Re: [WISP] [WISPA] Rita Grin. I think we were talking about sending the DATA to the existing servers. I've got two sites, one with 10 megs one with 100 meg feed. Are you close enough that people can bring servers to you on their way out of the area? Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment

[WISPA] gulf coast wisps

2005-09-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Hi All, The FCC has asked me for a list of wisps in and around the projected path of Rita. I know of no extensive list for this. If you are in that area can you please forward me your contact info (name, address, phone etc.)? If you KNOW someone in the area, I need as much info as you can

RE: [WISP] [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Rick Smith
Title: Re: [WISP] [WISPA] Rita I'm in NJ...way out of harm's way, but it would mean shipping them. If they can be shipped, let me know, I'll gladly house them. R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Thursday, September 22,

Re: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps

2005-09-22 Thread John Scrivner
If we need to go as far away as Houston to get a backhaul we can get one from EV1 Servers (http://ev1.net). Koree Smith, my previous Sysadmin, is working there in Houston and he says we should be able to get as much bandwidth as we need there. It is a massive data center with multiple fiber

Re: [WISPA] Request for Assistance

2005-09-22 Thread Ron Wallace
Can I help you Johnny? What do you need? Original message Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:21:16 -0500 From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Request for Assistance To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org We will be approx 30 miles east of the Eye which means we'll catch

Re: [WISPA] Request for Assistance

2005-09-22 Thread Dawn DiPietro
Hey Marlon, Want to help? Johnny has requested some help! Is there anything you can do to make this happen? Thanks, Dawn On 9/22/05, JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We will be approx 30 miles east of the Eye which means we'll catch the brundt of the storm I am 13 miles inland but know

[WISPA] See ya

2005-09-22 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Sorry to have offended so many of you.You won't see me here anymore. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

RE: [WISPA] Request for Assistance

2005-09-22 Thread Rick Harnish
JohnnyO, I have been on the road all day and have another one just like it tomorrow. Did you get what you needed taken care of? Thanks, Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Office 260-307-4000 Cell 260-918-4340 VoIP www.oibw.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[WISPA] Re:offending

2005-09-22 Thread WWS2
Mark- You didn't offend me. Stay on board, everyone's voice is welcome whether we agree with each other or not. Walter W. Stumpf Jr.Xanadu Group Inc.a Linden Travel Bureau affiliate179 Statesville Quarry RoadLafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA973-702-3899fax 775-667-1995SKAL/Virtuoso -- WISPA

RE: [WISPA] Rita

2005-09-22 Thread Cliff
Marlon, If you question is to me, here's my information: Computer Sales Services, Inc. 1162 Barrow Street Houma, LA 70360 985-879-3219 N29 35.300' W90 43.249' - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Re: [WISPA] See ya

2005-09-22 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Hey, if someone got offended, they can grow a spine. I like your opinions whether I agree or not. Don't you be leaving anything. Brian Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Sorry to have offended so many of you.You won't see me here anymore. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal

RE: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps (list in Southwest Louisiana)

2005-09-22 Thread JohnnyO
Marlon - Here is a quick list APGWireless, LLC JohnnyO 800-774-0320 (office) 251-404-0394 (cell) 646-202-1374 (VoIP) 112 Arthur Avenue Lake Arthur, LA 70549 Latitude: N30° 4.5919' Longitude: W92° 40.6113' 4000sq ft empty office space available 6meg connection TONS of cajun cooking - Generator

Re: [WISPA] Slidell LA needs help..........

2005-09-22 Thread Mac Dearman
Mark, When can you pack your wagon and load your men? :-) Give me a ring here at home and I will get things lined out for your arrival. I need some help to finish up in Bay St. Louis, Perlington, Diamond Head and Waveland utilizing some 2.4 gear and a few 2.4 microcells. Can I count you

Re: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps

2005-09-22 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Some WISPs might show their faces here. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14417406 Brian Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, The FCC has asked me for a list of wisps in and around the projected path of Rita. I know of no extensive list for this. If you are in that area

RE: [WISPA] Request for Assistance

2005-09-22 Thread JohnnyO
Rick - could never raise Mac - Cliff had a generator delivered to us (friggen raped me too) with 15gallons of gas... I have everything WE need to remain with communications but nothing for the local government / emergency services if needed. JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL

RE: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps

2005-09-22 Thread JohnnyO
John - Houston is estimating 50billion in damages currently - Level3 has flooded before - is that the Colo site you're talking about ? I-45 / Beltway8 ? JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Thursday, September 22,

RE: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps

2005-09-22 Thread C. Moses
Can you use these?? www.rocketphone.com I have about 50 -70 I can send Chuck Moses High Desert Wireless Broadband Communication 16922 Airport Blvd # 3 Mojave CA 93501 661 824 3431 office 818 406 6818 cell -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of

RE: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps (list in Southwest Louisiana)

2005-09-22 Thread Cliff
JohnnyO, Wait until you get the bill for the actual generator! :) Remember, it has been TESTED by Katrina. - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:49 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE:

Re: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps

2005-09-22 Thread John Scrivner
EV1 handles literally about 2% of the total web traffic on planet earth. They have redundant grid connections and dual backup generation facilities. I do not think we will lose them. I hope not anyway! It is just an option. If they do not make it then we will have to look elsewhere I guess.

Re: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps (list in Southwest Louisiana)

2005-09-22 Thread John Scrivner
I tell you what JohnnyO. If I were you I would be high tailing it out of where you are right now. You are in a bad spot from what I can see. I am not trying to be a hand wringing worry wart here. I just did a Mapquest on your location and it looks to me like Rita is gonna move in and be your

RE: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps (list in Southwest Louisiana)

2005-09-22 Thread Rick Smith
Amen. Bring some of them steaks with you. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 1:08 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps (list in Southwest Louisiana) Driving my

RE: [WISPA] gulf coast wisps (list in Southwest Louisiana)

2005-09-22 Thread JohnnyO
They will be waiting here for ya - Will have ya book yer flight on Sunday if needed brother :) CampWTF round 2 coming up ! - Bring that short / fat / loud mouth Italian with you again - he made a great dish washing umm :) Tim you driving in ? :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: