[WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread George
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread chris cooper
://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Matt Liotta
on the part of the city IT folks (not to mention the elected officials) who backed the networks without first learning about how wireless technology really works. jack George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread George
, waste of taxpayer money, and possible loss of jobs on the part of the city IT folks (not to mention the elected officials) who backed the networks without first learning about how wireless technology really works. jack George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread John J. Thomas
, April 24, 2006 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread John J. Thomas
officials) who backed the networks without first learning about how wireless technology really works. jack George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jack Unger
) who backed the networks without first learning about how wireless technology really works. jack George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask

RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Brian Webster
the networks without first learning about how wireless technology really works. jack George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Joe Laura
/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread John J. Thomas
really works. jack George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
- Original Message - From: George [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread George
John J. Thomas wrote: inline... First off, the WISPs have to have the guts to talk to the city. Many simply refuse to do so, and are probably going to get the Muni WiFi shoved down their throats. I don't want to turn this into a battle of ideals. But how many local wisps have been

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
. jack George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Matt Liotta
General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Travis Johnson
. jack George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http

[WISPA] Dual Channel Bonded Wireless Internet System - Closer?

2006-04-24 Thread Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor
Anybody know how to bond 2 wireless internet channels ... ie.. verizon + cingular hsdpa? we're working on getting 240kbps... instead of 120kbps per card / network for a govt client. - bob -- Robert Q Kim, Wireless Internet Advisor http://wireless-internet-coverage.blogspot.com

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
General List Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Dawn DiPietro
All, http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2005/050831a.html As part of the HP Metro-scale Wi-Fi solution, HP forged an alliance with Tropos Networks and Aptilo Networks to help large communities of all kinds - cities, government agencies, large medical center and universities -

RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread chris cooper
To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jack Unger
: George [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Matt Liotta
General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe

RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Brian Webster
WITH them, not against them. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo

[WISPA] WISP/Muni Partnerships:

2006-04-24 Thread Sascha Meinrath
Matt Larsen Wrote: Every WISPA member should be watching their area diligently for muniwireless opportunities in their area, and working hard to get in on the ground floor...WISPs should be taking a proactive, positive stance toward muniwireless efforts. The munis are our most powerful

Re: [WISPA] UL WiMAX update

2006-04-24 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Rich, with all due respect, your idea has a REALLY big flaw in it. Once government sets a standard, it's going to be a very long time before anything new comes along. Pure Darwinism is bad in that it requires too much capital investment. No Darwinism (government standards, really that's what

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jack Unger
10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman

RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Brian Webster
: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jack Unger
PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Matt Liotta
Jack Unger wrote: A multi-band mesh node does the backhaul on 5 GHz (sometimes with more than one 5 GHz radio). This reduces (but certainly doesn't eliminate) the 2.4 GHz self-interference and other-network-interference level. You can't use 5 Ghz to go through trees here in Atlanta, so that

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Joe Laura
] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Matt Liotta
- Original Message - From: George [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jack Unger
Then the 5 GHz backhaul network must have antennas that are raised above the trees. Another option is to backhaul with city-owned fiber. Backhauling on 900 MHz is a possible third option. All it takes is rf knowledge, creativity, and cooperation. jack

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jack Unger
) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: George [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:07 AM Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Matt Liotta
How do you raise the antennas above the trees without building really tall poles? Trees around here are 60-70ft. City-owned fiber only exists in places with enough density that there aren't any trees to begin with. Residential areas generally have lots of trees and no reason for fiber runs.

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jack Unger
OK Matt, being a creative person, you can then suggest the use of DSL for the backhaul... jack Matt Liotta wrote: How do you raise the antennas above the trees without building really tall poles? Trees around here are 60-70ft. City-owned fiber only exists in places with

RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread chris cooper
The SR9 cards might be interesting for this app... chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes OK Matt, being a

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Matt Liotta
Jack Unger wrote: 1. The attenuation between 2.4 GHz nodes is not enough to prevent each node from hearing multiple other nodes as noise (thus more packet retransmissions and more reduced throughtput). This requires understanding link budgets, signal-to-noise ratios, and receiver threshold

Re: [WISPA] 450' PoE 48v

2006-04-24 Thread Scott Reed
First, 450' is way too far for really reliable ethternet, if it is cat 5. Voltage drops due to resistance in the wire.  Voltage = Current * Resistance.  Longer wire has more resistance.  You will need to increase the voltage of the power supply based on the current rating of the device(s) at

Re: [WISPA] 450' PoE 48v

2006-04-24 Thread Mark Nash
Thanks, Scott. So, increased voltage is something to try. And your comment on the cat5 being too far...it was considered initially but the ethernet interface on these units is a 10mb/half duplex interface. My experience tells me that I can reliably do 10mb/half duplex ethernetwith 500 feet

Re: [WISPA] UL WiMAX update

2006-04-24 Thread Peter R.
Marlon K. wrote: It's funny. I thought that getting the local businesses on broadband would help me sell more of it. People would use it at work and want it at home too right? Wrong. They just do all of their stuff at work and sometimes cancel even the dialup! This is because people

Re: [WISPA] 450' PoE 48v

2006-04-24 Thread Scott Reed
The wireless physics discussion in another thread here applies as well. After 100 meters propogation delays can be an issue.  If it works, no problem, but be aware, I have seen things work for years and then it quits. If you need the power calculations for your run, feel free to hit me

Re: [WISPA] UL WiMAX update

2006-04-24 Thread Rich Comroe
Rich, with all due respect, your idea has a REALLY big flaw in it. I love debate. I'll take that as a challenge :-) Once government sets a standard, it's going to be a very long time before anything new comes along. No Darwinism (government standards, really that's what the old Ma Bell

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Dawn DiPietro
Jack, Not a problem. This discussion needed the information and no one else posted it. I have been reading up on this network since Ken went to the MuniWireless Show in Atlanta. Unfortunately some of the articles I read are no longer available. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Jack Unger wrote:

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Matt Liotta
Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Jack Unger
Matt Liotta wrote: Jack Unger wrote: 1. The attenuation between 2.4 GHz nodes is not enough to prevent each node from hearing multiple other nodes as noise (thus more packet retransmissions and more reduced throughtput). This requires understanding link budgets, signal-to-noise ratios, and

Re: [WISPA] UL WiMAX update

2006-04-24 Thread Rich Comroe
Marlon, I think I can appreciate most everything you've said. I can only add to each of your points, while accepting your input, why I think that your (and my) life would be better if we had some more constructive requirements in the wisp market than anything that fits the transmit mask.

Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

2006-04-24 Thread Tom DeReggi
. jack George wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060424/ap_on_hi_te/muni_wi_fi_hiccups I am not a fan of muni wireless. George -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying