Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition

2006-09-21 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
I can only imagine. +++ neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington email me at mark at neofast dot net 541-969-8200 Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL

Re: [WISPA] A little help with Mikrotik

2006-09-21 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Yo, Mac. Read first. I use them as clients, and am sorely disappointed with the performance of Mikrotik in B mode. I don't see what changing to a different SBC would do. For that matter, I put Ikarus on a board half the price of the RB112 and got double the throughput in the exact same spot.

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition

2006-09-21 Thread Dawn DiPietro
Mark, As quoted; Income is, of course, a factor in broadband adoption. As the table on page three shows, 15% of those who live in households with income under $30,000 annually have broadband compared with 57% of those in households

RE: [WISPA] A little help with Mikrotik

2006-09-21 Thread Mac Dearman
Mark, I apologize for that!! I miss-understood what you were doing with them and thought you were using them as a backhaul solution - which they will do, but I didn't think a person ought to complain for lousy throughput when he chose the solution. Again - sorry!! Mac -Original

[WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-21 Thread chris cooper
Im sure this has been covered before.. Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? Thanks Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Mario Pommier
John, Good to hear you got issues fixed, independent of the manufacturer/vendor you used. Regarding the radios you're using now. Some of us, like our company, started with Alvarion and never switched out. It's hard to try other technologies that appear less expensive, when the one

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition

2006-09-21 Thread Tom DeReggi
I don't disagree that many people choose Dial UP by Choice. I'm just saying that 30% of America does not. I don't have data on this, but neither does any one else, so of course it is speculation. I also think its a sales problem. Better sales and marketing targeted to the Dial Up user would

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition

2006-09-21 Thread Tom DeReggi
The only thing that I forgot about is Broadband may actually increase the sales of DialUP. So a higher market share of BRoadband does not mean a lower market share of DialUP. Everyone needs a Dial UP for redundancy, when their main broadband goes down, which it eventually will, since its

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition

2006-09-21 Thread Tom DeReggi
Scriv,Congrads on the spectrum win. What are you doing about equipment to operate in that spectrum range? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Tom DeReggi
I'm glad to hear that John found success with Alvarion. However, his post does leave out technical detail on why the equipment had helped, which may be misleading to a reader. I have found great success with Trango for many reasons, and will continue to in comming years, and the fact that

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition Leaves U.S. 16thAmong IndustrializedNations

2006-09-21 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
I think what we really need is more telecommuting. That will help drop out dependence on petrol, reduce the loads on the roads, save hours per day for some folks, help moms stay home with the kids etc. I think it would also help de-urbanize the country and make it much harder for terrorists

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Travis Johnson
Tom, I hate to say this, but I think you missed the boat on your three $500/mo subs. Trango still offers a 5830-EXT unit for $729 (retail) that would have allowed you the external antenna that was so critical for these links. Why did you not spend the $700 and have them paid for in less than

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition LeavesU.S.16th Among IndustrializedNations

2006-09-21 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Not at all true Tom. We still have almost as many dialup users as we do broadband. And many of those dialup users CAN get access to broadband. Often at a rate below what they are spending on dialup. Don't ask me why the won't switch, I don't have an answer. But it's still a fact of

Re: [WISPA] RE: ISPCON?

2006-09-21 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
I'll be there. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition

2006-09-21 Thread John Scrivner
Tom DeReggi wrote: Scriv,Congrads on the spectrum win. Thank you. What are you doing about equipment to operate in that spectrum range? That is the $100,000 question right now. 802.16e for mobility and fixed wireless is designed strictly for TDD use. I have paired frequencies which

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Brad Belton
Agreed that Trango has clearly fallen behind...way behind. However, the VL is also far from being an end all solution. The VL has no mechanism to avoid interference (No RX threshold etc.) other than just to retransmit. Also, the VL does not offer the flexibility to change polarities on the fly.

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition Leaves U.S. 16thAmong IndustrializedNations

2006-09-21 Thread Travis Johnson
Marlon, Shouldn't that actually be wirelesscommuting or wificommuniting or wommuting? :) Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I think what we really need is more telecommuting. That will help drop out dependence on petrol, reduce the loads on the roads, save hours per

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Travis Johnson
I think in all fairness, we need to put a major factor to radio selection out on the table too... price. Trango retail pricing: Trango Link10-EXT's are $1,500 for a complete link. Trango 5830AP-EXTs are $1,095 Trango 5830SU-EXT's are $729 Trango FOX are $149 Alvarion pricing (not sure if this

RE: [WISPA] Lack of CompetitionLeavesU.S.16th Among IndustrializedNations

2006-09-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Wow, seriously Marlon? You have as many dial-up guys? That is interesting. Has your dial-up actually consistently grown these past few years? Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition

2006-09-21 Thread Matt Liotta
I wouldn't think you would be required to use FDD. 802.16e supports varying channel widths, so you could for example deploy a multi-point system with two 10Mhz channels or six 3Mhz channels all TDD. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Tom DeReggi wrote: Scriv,Congrads on the spectrum win. Thank

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Patrick Leary
That's retail Travis. Actual pricing WISPs pay is far less. By the way, that VL AU also delivers over 32Mbps net at the top mod and can scream with VoIP. Here are the net rates per mod for VL: Avg Avg FTPLayer 2 Modulation 1 4.96 5.56 Modulation

[WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Scott Reed
I have a potential customer that is looking to replace a fiber link with wireless.  Need best recommendation for a 1.5mile clear LOS shot.  Bridge as it is to replace a fiber link that goes switch to switch.  And probably 45Mbps would be good. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Brad Belton
I fully believe these payload rates are achievable in little or no noise environments. I think it's important to add a disclaimer stating these rates are theoretically obtainable under ideal conditions. In comparison a product that has mechanisms to avoid noise or block noise will perform

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Travis Johnson
Scott, P-com 38ghz with DS3 to ethernet converters. 1ms ping times, 45Mbps full-duplex (90Mbps total). Total equipment cost less than $3,000. Check on ebay. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: I have a potential customer that is looking to replace a fiber link with wireless. Need

[WISPA] CUWiN Releases CUWiNware 0.7.0

2006-09-21 Thread Sascha Meinrath
From Team CUWiN: (more info at www.cuwin.net) CUWiN Releases CUWiNware 0.7.0 -- BETA. September 19, 2006 CUWiN announces a new version of its flagship software, CUWiNware 0.7.0. CUWiNware enables neighbors and communities to create a mesh wireless network that can share Internet connections,

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread David E. Smith
Travis Johnson wrote: P-com 38ghz with DS3 to ethernet converters. 1ms ping times, 45Mbps full-duplex (90Mbps total). Total equipment cost less than $3,000. Check on ebay. As long as it doesn't rain. :) Seriously, I've got two pair of these, and while they're rock-solid most of the time, I

Re: [WISPA] Lack of Competition

2006-09-21 Thread John Scrivner
The NTIA only allows the use of the 1710 to 1720 MHz band that I now have in CMA401 to be used with a max EIRP for the system (radio plus antenna) of 1 watt and a max height above average terrain of 30 feet. Their is NO practical use of 1710 to 1720 MHz as a tower base station frequency,

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread John Scrivner
This is what I would buy to replace a fiber in this case: http://www.alvarion.com/B100/?ref=wispabanner Scott Reed wrote: I have a potential customer that is looking to replace a fiber link with wireless. Need best recommendation for a 1.5mile clear LOS shot. Bridge as it is to replace a

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread David E. Smith
Patrick Leary wrote: Here are the net rates per mod for VL: Avg Avg FTPLayer 2 Modulation 1 4.96 5.56 Modulation 2 7.28 8.16 Modulation 3 9.911.10 Modulation 4 14.35 16.09 Modulation 5 19.38 21.73 Modulation 6 26.77 30.01

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Travis Johnson
David, What are your signal levels on each side (the actual RSSI using the management program)? Even at 1.5 miles, with 2ft dishes I show you should have a -26db RSSI and total downtime during a 1 year period of 7 minutes. (99.9% uptime). Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote:

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Patrick Leary
I'll ask Ed. He posted all the details on Mike Cowan's Alvarion support list. I cut and pasted the mod rates from his original post. Ed? David, what speeds (Net) are you getting relative to the mod rate you are running? Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c:

RE: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Brad Belton
Depends on what rain zone hes in, but I agree that a 1.5 mile and certainly a .5 mile 38GHz shot should be a walk in the park. I expect alignment is the issue and hes probably lined up on a side lobe. We spend an inordinate amount of time aligning our 38GHz links. We also use very

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread David E. Smith
On Thu, September 21, 2006 3:09 pm, Travis Johnson wrote: What are your signal levels on each side (the actual RSSI using the management program)? I'd have to drive over to one end (or the other) to look, but IIRC, on that longer link, it shows a signal of about -40 or so. The link may

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Scott Reed
What about unlicensed?  Anything that can do this link well? Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Brad Belton
I fully believe these payload rates are achievable in little or no noise environments. I think it's important to add a disclaimer stating these rates are theoretically obtainable under ideal conditions. In comparison a product that has mechanisms to avoid noise or block noise will perform

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Ah. So in that case I would really like to hear from those with 4.0 in the field in terms of what net rates are being achieved at what mods. Lab is one thing, real world is quite another. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243

RE: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Certainly the B100 can and will probably get you about 70mbps at that range (City of New Orleans gets 80mbps from a short LOS link and AM gets over 60mbps sustained at 16 miles). It will also trunk over 1,000 concurrent VoIP sessions. Not too much money, especially for the value.

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Travis Johnson
Scott, I think the biggest problem you will have when trying to replace a fiber line will be half-duplex vs. full-duplex. They are "used" to full-duplex... and 99% of the unlicensed equipment is only half-duplex. If you move to Orthogon or something that will do 200Mbps half-duplex, you

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
I've heard of some folks using an OSPF router on both ends and two hdx backhaul radios to simulate FDD, with excellent results. Added benefit of having a backup link already in place if one radio fails. I will be trying this on my next set of backhaul deployments. Matt Larsen [EMAIL

Re: [WISPA] FCC wireless auction raises almost $13.9 bln

2006-09-21 Thread Ron Wallace
Congratulations Scriv, I know you will show us the way.-Original Message-From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:20 PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC wireless auction raises almost $13.9 blnThe band is 2110 to 2120 MHz and 1710 to

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Butch Evans
On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: I've heard of some folks using an OSPF router on both ends and two hdx backhaul radios to simulate FDD, with excellent results. Added benefit of having a backup link already in place if one radio fails. I will be trying this on my next set of

Re: [WISPA] OT FYI: Change in position

2006-09-21 Thread Ron Wallace
Welcome back Patrick, we will all benefit from your increased participation in our industry.Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original Message-From: Patrick Leary

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Tom DeReggi
Because, over the years I lost 100% of my high ARPU subs that used 5830-ext in these areas. Yes that REALLY hurt the financials of my business. The reason, is that its a high noise environment where we're attempting to deploy, and its impossible to offer zero packet loss solutions with TDD

Re: [WISPA] RE: ISPCON?

2006-09-21 Thread Tom DeReggi
Yeah, I'm definately going this year to. I've learned that for me, ISPCON is the one event that I just can't afford to miss. I'd justify the trip just for the CEO-Talk Session alone. Session topics are relavent and right on current need like always. Hope to see many of you there. Tom DeReggi

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Tom DeReggi
Brad, I got an idea! How about Trango Fix ARQ for the 5830-EXT, so it can be like old times, and we can sit and brag on the list how great our networks are? One of the reasons StarOS is becoming such an exciting platform. StarOS can be used as a multi-freq, Multi-polarity on the fly product.

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Tom DeReggi
Just remember OSPF does not detect packet loss, and does not properly switch to backup channels or switches to frequently between channels on marginal links. So when you use two spectrum channels for 1 link, you double your chance that the link will get interference and degration. Going two

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Gino A. Villarini
Tom, so what you are changing the Trangos to ? Also, you can hack yourself a EXT Fox ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Brad Belton
Hello Tom, Brag about networks? Still do! lol Believe me when I say you're preaching to the choir when it comes to Trango. It has been a wild ride UP with the 5800/5830 product and certainly a disappointing DOWNWARD slide with the introduction of yet one miserable Trango product after

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Patrick Leary
Cat doesn't have my tongue Brad. I'm just doing my best not to take the bait. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Thursday,

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Brad Belton
??? Simple question...no bait intended! What's the saying or how does it go? Something about heat and the kitchen...grin Hey, don't be embarrassed about Coppell. It's only a 2MB circuit and so far the VL is keeping up...barely. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

2006-09-21 Thread Butch Evans
On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, Tom DeReggi wrote: Just remember OSPF does not detect packet loss, and does not properly switch to backup channels or switches to frequently between channels on marginal links. So when you use two spectrum channels for 1 link, you double your chance that the link will get

[WISPA] What could be improved with the Alvarion VL product?

2006-09-21 Thread Brad Belton
Now that Alvarion has dedicated a person to lend an ear to the wISP industry and an Official Alvarion Representative is a member of the list I think this is a good opportunity to field the pros and cons of the VL product. What are the VL strong points vs. the shortcomings? Here are a few off the

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Charles Wu
snip What I'm learning is that as my business grows, the abilty to change and move (channel options) is becoming less important that the abilty to effectively battle it out. The reason is that if every time I hiot noise, I move away from the channel, eventually others take those channels.,

RE: [WISPA] What could be improved with the Alvarion VL product?

2006-09-21 Thread Brad Belton
Now that Alvarion has dedicated a person to lend an ear to the wISP industry and an Official Alvarion Representative is a member of the list I think this is a good opportunity to field the pros and cons of the VL product. What are the VL strong points vs. the shortcomings? Here are a few off the

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Brad Belton
lol...too funny Charles. Tom has a good point and I largely agree, however there are times when push comes to shove and you have no option but to make a change. When that happens running around rotating client antennas 90* all over town really isn't an option. With Trango it's a simple command

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-21 Thread Gino A. Villarini
That's why I asked, to what gear he was switching to ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Thursday, September 21,