Re: [WISPA] tubes....hmmm...

2006-09-22 Thread Scott Reed
I benefit by allowing customers to access AOL.  If they couldn't, I would have 10% less customers, 10% less revenue.  Don't see a problem with what is quoted, but have not read the entire article. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and

Re: [WISPA] tubes....hmmm...

2006-09-22 Thread Dawn DiPietro
Scott, I was not referring to the AOL statement. That was just to clarify the person making the statement. The reference to tubes in the second sentence. Sorry I guess I was a little vague there. Scott Reed wrote: I benefit by allowing customers to access AOL. If they couldn't, I would

Re: [WISPA] tubes....hmmm...

2006-09-22 Thread Dawn DiPietro
All, I guess I should not quit my day job. The reference was to the tubes Senator Stevens was so confused about. ahh..back to work not telling jokes. ;-) Regards, Dawn DiPietro NEW-ISP Dawn DiPietro wrote: Scott, I was not referring to the AOL statement. That was just to clarify the

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Pete Davis
We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Scott Reed
You might want to check with your accountant.  I doubt the IRS is going to let you contract with people you also employ.  You may be liable for FICA, etc. for all the installs they have done. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Would GPS'd Canopy help? If not, why? Do others in the area use Canopy? Brian Tom DeReggi wrote: Because, over the years I lost 100% of my high ARPU subs that used 5830-ext in these areas. Yes that REALLY hurt the financials of my business. The reason, is that its a high noise environment

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
I started out with having my own installers, vans, equipment etc., but have switched over to outsourcing almost all of our installations. At this time last year, I had two different outsourced installers going at the same time. We did 80 installs last September and our cost was a little bit

RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Rick Harnish
We have two outsourced installers. They are paid $100/install. They supply their own tools, gas, insurance and vehicle. We furnish supplies they need. They also fill in their time with Dish and DirecTV installs. Some sourced from our company, some sourced from other shops. Once you figure

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
The answer to your question is that there is not a preferred option. In some cases I don't have an option and just lose the prospect (as unservable). The industry is in a stagnet state, where manufacturers are not delivering an ideal product that WISPs need. (At least that I want). Any

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Travis Johnson
Tom, You won't customize a Fox unit because it's not FCC compliant, yet you are running StarOS on WAR boards which is also not FCC compliant. ;) Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: The answer to your question is that there is not a preferred option. In some cases I don't have an option

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations - The Future of WISPs

2006-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
Butch, I do not disagree with your statements. I'm jsut saying readers may misinterperete the post if my statements were not added. If the intend is to do FDX, Using OFDM to accomplish it is one easy way to do it. The question that I was challenging is in what cases FDX is appropriate. It

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Mario Pommier
Matt, Pete, Can you state what kinds of radios these installs involve? are these PoE radios, what brand, what kind of terrain you're installing in, rural/metro area? Is grounding being done? What if they install a non-pen mount? Same price? Where does install end: i.e. do they ahve to

RE: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations - The Future of WISPs

2006-09-22 Thread Jeff Broadwick
I don't know if you are right or wrong Tom...only time will tell...but I'm clapping! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 2:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
As much as I've protested Canopy, (in my mind poor design), the smaller the gaps are getting. The problem is that Trango kept degrading their gear more and more like Canopy. And Canopy kept improving their gear. Trango still wins, because Trango is less expensive. Canopy still has some of the

Re: [WISPA] tubes....hmmm...

2006-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
Got it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tubeshmmm... All, I guess I

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
For the golden answer. GPS only helps you design your own network, and I already take care to use best practices for my own network, when its comming from myself. Its all the other people that you have to worry about. Do you think Public safety or department of transportation is using GPS

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Patrick Leary
My goal is to gain the High Arpu business. Tom, that is exactly where Alvarion excels and why it is my opinion that the more premium an operator becomes in the total quality of their service, the more likely an operator is to choose Alvarion. And these customers have different service level

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Matt Liotta
I believe we have one of the highest APRUs in the business and we use Canopy (including Orthogon). We do like the Trango Atlas, but only for limited deployment. I don't really think the price of the radio correlates to the revenue of the service. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: As much as I've

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Jon Langeler
Charles Wu wrote: snip What I'm learning is that as my business grows, the abilty to change and move (channel options) is becoming less important that the abilty to effectively battle it out. The reason is that if every time I hiot noise, I move away from the channel, eventually others take

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Jon Langeler
Since canopy is the most robust(3db C/I, ARQ, etc.) PTMP product in it's class(and happens to be #1 deployed in US), anyone not using canopy will likely find themselves conforming to the canopy operators' spectrum usage. As for coordination among the canopy operators, that's an easy problem to

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Brad Belton
This maybe so, but there will ALWAYS be another product available and deployed alongside Canopy that does not sync. It is also safe to assume that not every Canopy operator will opt to sync knowingly or unknowingly. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Brad Larson
Jon, Canopy is not fast enough for many now and voip performance is lacking. Depending on the circumstance you may be right for many but the times are changing very quickly. There are more and more projects hitting the streets where you don't even make the cut if you can't pass the higher data

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Matt Liotta
I am not suggesting that Canopy shouldn't be better, but it is certainly better than good enough. Again, not only are we leading the industry in ARPU, we also doing hundreds of thousands of VoIP minutes every month. -Matt Brad Larson wrote: Jon, Canopy is not fast enough for many now and

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Patrick Leary
You pay more per customer than an Alvarion user Matt since all your customers are on dedicated PtP shots though, right? Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations - The Future of WISPs

2006-09-22 Thread Butch Evans
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006, Tom DeReggi wrote: I'm jsut saying readers may misinterperete the post if my statements were not added. The parts that you added, though, were specifically related to the radio portion of the network (and you were correct there), but it has nothing to do with what we

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
Hi Mario, To answer your questions: 1) Tranzeo radios, all POE, all models 2) Terrain is mostly flat, some rolling hills, mostly rural 3) Grounding is required in the contract 4) We provide the mounting hardware. Normally, we send satellite arms with the installer, but if it takes more we

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Matt Liotta
Patrick Leary wrote: You pay more per customer than an Alvarion user Matt since all your customers are on dedicated PtP shots though, right? Last time I looked at Alvarion's pricing that wasn't the case. We do use a lot PtP shots, but all of our customers aren't on dedicated PtP shots. We

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Patrick Leary
For sure we are a premium product, so we will never be near the lowest and don't ever want to be in that game. We try to offer value. That said, frankly, I personally am not a fan of how we list our pricing. MSRP is very misleading since each company may have a different channel model, or lack of

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
Patrick, I couldn't agree more, well said. PS. The problem is finding gear/platform that has a balanced offering for both high ARPU and low ARPU business. Since most WISPs go after both markets. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
Nice try, but I've found that comment to be not at all true. I have often chosen to avoid canopy user's channels, but because I am a good WISP neighbor, not because I had to. Why fight if you can cooperate. On a SPEC sheet Canopy does boast the lowest C/I. But Trango's specified C/I was

[WISPA] Alvarion in your court

2006-09-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Thanks Tom. I am hoping my ideas, once implemented, will contribute to improving that perception Tom. I'm in my eighth year here. I like to pride myself on knowing many of you pretty well, understanding your needs and such. But that knowledge has not always translated into actionable benefits

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Yes, but based on net capacity of a given sector, not gross. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Pommier Sent: Friday, September 22,

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
Matt, Don't forget the laws of statistics. You also have been in business for less than 2 years. We didn't have interference problems our first 4 years either. It wasn't until year 5 and 6, that it started to become tough. I may have complained a little about trango today, but List please

Re: [WISPA] PTP Link Recommendations - The Future of WISPs

2006-09-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
If the intend is to do FDX, Using OFDM to accomplish it is one easy way to do it. OFDM isn't full duplex, unless I'm sorely mistaken. OOPs typo. MEant OSPF. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Jon Langeler
Tom, I have nothing to gain or lose by telling you what we've not only extensivley tested but also experienced over 6 years. We started using canopy since it began shipping and at least 100 trango SU between 3 different towers since beta. I just hate to see fellow wisp protest that there isn't

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Jon Langeler
Hey Brad, VOIP may be the only thing canopy is lagging in. I'm curious if they'll improve that in the version 8 software release or at least when they move toward WIMAX compatibility. In the mean time I'm more concerned with providing reliable pipes... Jon Langeler Michwave Tech. Brad Larson

[WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-22 Thread Travis Johnson
Hi, I changed the subject line to reflect more the direction of this discussion (Trango vs. Canopy vs. Alvarion)... ;) This is just off the top of my head, and I would love to see more data on any of these radios: Trango 5830AP - $1,079 retail Dual polarity 10Mbps (auto up/down ratio) Easy

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-22 Thread Gino A. Villarini
Connectorized Canopy SM are coming q4 Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 2:31 PM To:

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-22 Thread Patrick Leary
I have a very interesting new (this month) pdf about this topic that compares Canopy Advantage and BreezeACCESS VL in a variety of ways, from a coverage modeling example using high end propagation software to VoIP stats using company documents from both companies. We think it makes a clear case

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-22 Thread Gino A. Villarini
Let me comment on this #Canopy 5.7 AP - $970 (Advantage $1,974) is this MRSP ? you can buy this the AP for $800 +/- , Advantage for $1500 #C/I advantage #Fixed up/down ratio Add GPS Sync, Feature rich firmware, NMS Software, Strong support, Good promos, Only Manufacturer to offer price

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-22 Thread Anthony Will
Your numbers are a bit off on the canopy and when i looked on the trango site it looks more in the range of $400 per unit at 30 pack pricing for trango's. I believe your getting that price but at what qualities? I have a couple hundred in the air and I have Midwest Wireless the 5th largest

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-22 Thread John J. Thomas
Yes, and, if for some reason they take too long on a job such that the flat-rate billing is less than Minimum wage, you get into hot water John -Original Message- From: Scott Reed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 05:46 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject:

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-22 Thread Travis Johnson
I guess I left the door open for comments like feature rich firmware what does THAT mean? It definately doesn't mean the SM number stays the same on the AP with each reboot or SM re-association.. ;) GPS sync is extra $$. NMS software is extra $$. The pricing I listed was MSRP (or what I

[WISPA] RB153

2006-09-22 Thread JNA
Does anyone know if the RB153 will handle 3 SR9 cards both physical form factor and power consumption? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-22 Thread Travis Johnson
Trango offers many different CPE (5830, Fox, Fox Atlas, etc.). They have listed on their website the Fox Atlas CPE for $149 for a 30 pack pricing. This is a 10Mbps radio and with a $30 dish will reach up to 10 miles. I currently have a 22 mile 900mhz link with Trango (using an omni on the

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-22 Thread Jon Langeler
My problem with VL is that it doesn't offer a scheduled mac...no syncronization capability. Now if this get's incorporated down the line I would be interested? We've used it all, you name it, and at this point if it doesn't have GPS sync I'm hesitant to even touch it. That is one advantage