Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Mario Pommier
Carlos, that's your first item, your line of thinking seems accurate: Cisco, Proxim, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, Mikrotik -- what equipment will you choose and what is the advantage/disadvantage of each. Maybe your first perspective is: do you want to go with a finished, packaged

[WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread John Scrivner
Replies below: Matt Liotta wrote: Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. Wow! Business must be good! We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the

RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks)
Are you looking at Unlicensed? I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput, long distance links. With bonding you can easily get 100Mbps speeds, just keep adding links as your need grows. See this: 150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Super_wireless_test

RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Brad Belton
While I'm a fan of MikroTik, the test setup you show is not a viable solution in a real world deployment. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks) Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:27 AM To: 'WISPA

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
170 Mb FD Dragonwave... About $20K Matt Liotta wrote: Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a

RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Brad Belton
Agreed, 18GHz should fit the bill nicely for 100Mbps in the 5-10 miles range. 80GHz will do 100Mbps - 1000Mbps up to about 3-4miles. I hear 65GHz will do 100Mbps - 1000Mbps beyond 5miles. Of course it all depends on your acceptable uptime requirement. Best, Brad -Original Message-

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
I have just recived an answer from chad saying that starOS its a good choice, thanks chad ill check it, for your question yes i w'd like to play, i have never deployed my routers, but i really would like to, so im like a newbie compared to the people in this list but im hungry to learn the how

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Tim Kerns
Matt, The Orthagon 600 series is supposed to do 300 mb on a 30 Mhz channel. I believe they do this using both vert and hor polarity. Is this the system you are out growing? Tim Kerns - Original Message - From: Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List'

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
What distances do you need? 5 to 10 miles is a big swing for some gear What's your budget? A series of 60 gig radios might work well for ya. Certainly the Dragonwave 24 gig gear should do. You might also look at Harris or Microwave networks licensed gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks) wrote: Are you looking at Unlicensed? I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput, long distance links. With bonding you can easily get 100Mbps speeds, just keep adding links as your need grows. See this: 150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
I have a handful of these in NYC and Wash DC. They kick ass and the company backs them 150%. They are my first licensed choice. Ceragon is my second. -B- Bob Moldashel wrote: 170 Mb FD Dragonwave... About $20K Matt Liotta wrote: Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
fyi, I believe that it's oxygen that absorbs 60 gig. Not so much rain. Often companies tie 60 gig and FSO together for short hop very high speed redundant links. Each fades differently in different weather. Note, everything above 10 gig has rain fade, some bands just more so than others

[WISPA] The Holiday Season

2006-12-12 Thread Forbes Mercy
I received an email from my support staff who was mad because a customer called screaming at them and the tech felt the installers weren't fixing problems aggressive enough. Normally this is a simple fix but during this stressful season both sides flew off in a rage. Our company dinner is

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Hi Carlos You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link. I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about. The results pretty well sucked. big time. However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds. That's supposed to allow an ap work as

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread W.D.McKinney
- Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:49:39 -0900 Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options 170 Mb FD Dragonwave... About $20K Hi Matt, I agree with Bob here,

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler
My recommendation is to have a dual WAR board at the main POP. Use a 5 GHz antenna and radio to connect tot the middle repeater and have a 2.4 GHz with an omni at the main just to be able to connect any local customers. The biggest investment is the CPU board and time to install, and an extra

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough starting with 11Mbps Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió: Hi Carlos You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link. I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about. The

Re: [WISPA] The Holiday Season

2006-12-12 Thread Peter R.
Deep Breaths. Some fun time at work. More breaks with sugar and less caffeine. Exercise. All work to release stress. If everyone is under pressure at your office - and you know it - it is your job to help manage that stress. Or lose customers. Just my quick 2 cents. Peter Forbes Mercy

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
Ok, following your recomendations in order to set up the link without using more than 3 radios what you recommend its to use th WAR from Staros i have a wireless repeaters using cisco so the extra radios for customers are not necesary (sorry my english) if i use this NOC war with one antenna

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
Tim Kerns wrote: The Orthagon 600 series is supposed to do 300 mb on a 30 Mhz channel. I believe they do this using both vert and hor polarity. Is this the system you are out growing? First of all, 300Mbps is an aggregate figure. Second, in a low latency deployment at 5-10 miles it is not

[WISPA] spectrum analyzer

2006-12-12 Thread Blair Davis
Well, I know we have been round and round this subject before, but, I am finally ready to buy a spectrum analyzer What I want Coverage of 900MHz, 2.3-2.5GHz, and 5-6GHz Absolute power readings... I don't really care what the range on the power readings is as I can adjust the level as

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
John Scrivner wrote: Wow! Business must be good! That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging because if it

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles. The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio. 100 Mb Full Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas -B- Matt Liotta wrote: John Scrivner wrote: Wow! Business must be good! That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and

[WISPA] WiMAX Security

2006-12-12 Thread W.D.McKinney
I am familiar with these issues and hope you have time to read the post today at http://www.dailywireless.org/ Cheers, -Dee Alaska Wireless Systems 1(907)240-2183 Cell 1(907)349-2226 Fax 1(907)349-4308 Office www.akwireless.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:

RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Rick Harnish
My experience is showing about a max of 240 Mbps aggregate bandwidth for a link that long. My shortest link is about a quarter mile and is getting 283 Mbps. Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From:

RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Mike Bushard, Jr
I can vouch for Dragon Wave. We have 2 11Ghz links, rock solid, Latency that rivals fiber. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday,

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
11 megs like your Cisco radios claim (then actually do half or less than that) or a real 11 meg? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Travis Johnson
How about Dragonwave 18ghz or 11ghz? I think they make a 200mbps product in both of those bands. Travis Microserv Bob Moldashel wrote: 24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles. The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio. 100 Mb Full Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas

Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security

2006-12-12 Thread Jack Unger
Dee, There is a lot of interesting info and a lot of speculative and very wrong info in that article on WiMAX security; especially the part saying that it's easy to jam WiMAX. Witness the following text from the article: It is reasonably simple, however, for an attacker to use readily

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Why not? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Erik Jansson
We have done Dragon Wave with links over 20 miles at 18ghz. with 4 ft dishes.(23ghz is very low powered and would get you more then a few miles) We have seen a few minutes a year in rain fade as it is pushing the limits. There is now an high power unit that has about 10db more tx power then

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Jason Hensley
Marlon, For WDS, you lose half your capacity, so an 11meg link will instantly drop down to 5.5meg if I understand it right. Having said that, I've got a couple of Tranzeo AP's running WDS right now, working as a repeater, and the performance is horrible. I think part of my problem though

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Mike Brownson
If reliability is your main issue then you may reconsider using wifi product and omni antennas. There are so many things that can effect the radio signal. If you link to experiment then perhaps it's good to go with WAR boards as it's kind of a make it yourself solution. If you want

Re: [WISPA] spectrum analyzer

2006-12-12 Thread Mike Brownson
We've got one of our Avcom Rental units available for sale. We rent these for $100 per week. This has been used on and off for the past year and it's time to move it. It sells for $3K new, we need $1000 for the analyzer. We have a 5Ghz freq extender as well for $400, normally $800. Only

[WISPA] Welcome Imagestream - WISPA's Newest Vendor Member!

2006-12-12 Thread John Scrivner
In the WISP industry there are a few names that stick out as being companies who have been true friends to WISPs over the years. One of the names that truly tops the list is ImageStream. If you need a router then these guys have one that will do the job well, whatever the job is. The amazing

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
Ihave never check the real speed but the radio it is a G so it must be more than that Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió: 11 megs like your Cisco radios claim (then actually do half or less than that) or a real 11 meg? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment

Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
OK, about the cost lets say max 1300 Dlls each equipment, could be any equipment that solve the problem, well actually its not a problem i have done this kind of link before what i want now it is not to use 4 equipments and doing with 5.8 Mike Brownson escribió: If reliability is your main

Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security

2006-12-12 Thread W.D.McKinney
- Original Message - From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:11:45 -0900 Subject: Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security Dee, There is a lot of interesting info and a lot of speculative and very wrong info in that

[WISPA] remote power

2006-12-12 Thread chris cooper
Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot devices? Thanks Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread michaeldavidlake
You need to look at Nera, Ceragon, and Gigacom. The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long distance out of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that perform very well in the rainforest of South America at very long distance. 60k or 40 miles for some

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Tom DeReggi
Why not? Because its greedy. And when your competitors is unsensitive to the fact that you are greedy, he combats your spectrum/radio, and you or he has no where to go (spectrum wise) for a resolution, he will win because he doesn;t have customers yet, and you do, so you will move to protect

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long distance out of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that perform very well in the rainforest of South America at very long distance. 60k or 40 miles for some applications at speeds of up

RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Brad Belton
Not only that, but is the GigE radio even available yet? Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options [EMAIL

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
Tom DeReggi wrote: Because its greedy. Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy. And when your competitors is unsensitive to the fact that you are greedy, he combats your spectrum/radio, and you or he has no where to go (spectrum wise) for a resolution, he will win because he doesn;t

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
Matt Liotta wrote: Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy. Whoops... meant inefficient. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] remote power

2006-12-12 Thread Eric Muehleisen
http://www.digital-loggers.com/EPC.html http://www.hw-group.com/products/ip_watchdog/index_lite_en.html http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main.aspx?p=ItemDetailitem=NET10332 http://dataprobe.com/products/power/index.html -Eric chris cooper wrote: Can anyone share what they use for remote

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Tom DeReggi
Matt, If you live in a remote area, with no potential interferers, then my comment does not apply. But last I heard you were deploying in the middle of Urban Atlanta and possibly Urban DC, with the potential for many interferers eventually. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet-

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
Tom DeReggi wrote: Matt, If you live in a remote area, with no potential interferers, then my comment does not apply. But last I heard you were deploying in the middle of Urban Atlanta and possibly Urban DC, with the potential for many interferers eventually. We mostly deploy in urban

Re: [WISPA] remote power

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
These are the best ones by far http://www.webpowerswitch.com/ The low end unit is only $139 or something like that. They have autoping and remote web interface as well. I haven't seen anything else come close for the price. Their rackmount units are awesome too, for $295 with 16

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
The above confuses me. In the situation where I have a PtP radio using the full band there is no colocation opportunity for a competitor on either side. That means the competitor would have be on a site near by to be affected by me and/or to affect me. If this hypothetical competitor doesn't

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Several of us on this list know how to shut down these large channel backhauls, and have done so when they have intentionally interfered with our operations. Be ready for someone to do the same to you if you try using a full-band backhaul. More than one operator

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
It doesn't use the entire band... Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408)

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
The GiGe radio is only 500 Mb:-) You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 antenna with much better redundancy. If one link dies you still have the other two. And they are available now with type acceptance. -B- Brad Belton wrote: Not only that, but is

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta
Bob Moldashel wrote: You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 antenna with much better redundancy. If one link dies you still have the other two. How are you phasing the radios together without significant loss? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
Matt Liotta wrote: Matt Liotta wrote: Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy. Whoops... meant inefficient. -Matt 100 Mb FD on a 32 Mhz. channel.That's not bad. Besides...get the GPS syc option and you can tie in a handful of links on the same channel. That makes them

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
There is a matching network that goes on the rear of the antenna. At higher freqs the loss is much lower than on lower freqs. -B- Matt Liotta wrote: Bob Moldashel wrote: You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 antenna with much better redundancy. If one

Re: [WISPA] remote power

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I have an Iboot. I've heard of another brand that's more powerful and half the money but I don't have the info here. Chuck, you on this list? - Original Message - From: chris cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:57

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
OK...Lets have a review.. It does not use the whole band. It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel. That makes it efficient... It works for the application.. There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage. My way of seeing it is as

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
BTW:: While we are talking responsibility and efficiency how many of you guys and gals drive SUV's, Pick-Up trucks, Vans and other 8 cylinder vehicles Put your hands up. You know who you are.. :-) -B- Bob Moldashel wrote: OK...Lets have a review.. It does not use the

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I thought that they did. How much do they use? - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options It doesn't use the entire band...

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
http://www.exaltcom.com/ BTW: What kind of truck do you have :-P Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I thought that they did. How much do they use? - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Oh, you are gonna love this! My truck is a '96 green Taurus wagon! Lots of room with all the seats folded down. It's easy to get the ladder on and off of. Gets almost 20 mpg even with the ladder on top. But oil pans are $500 a whack and I've got too many sites up in the sticks now so I

Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Travis Johnson
Bob, I tried to downsize last year, but the Toyota Prius I bought just couldn't pull the 27ft enclosed snowmobile trailer with snowmobiles inside... so I went back to a Chevy with a 6.0L and 4x4. It gets 8mpg while towing... but the batteries don't overheat. :) Travis Microserv Bob

RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Brad Belton
20mpg? Big deal, I get pretty dang close to that (17-18mpg city) with my foot the in floorboard of my Excursion. This is my second Excursion...it is fast approaching 150k miles and running strong as new. Too bad Ford killed it. Of course it has the diesel with a few minor modifications...grin