RE: [WISPA] FCC meeting with wisps

2006-12-22 Thread Gino A. Villarini
You folks meeting the FCC, can you ask about 3.65 ghz? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Thursday, December 21,

[WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Marty Dougherty
Well we got our 1st 100 pack of VL Su's under the Comnet program yesterday- Just wanted you all to know they are the EXACT same radios as before the big price drop- Same high quality metal radio and still INCLUDES the mounting hardware AND the pre-made cat5 outdoor cable (60ft long)- the cable is

RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues crosspost

2006-12-22 Thread Mac Dearman
Chadd, Did that fix your problem or do you still have issues? Merry Christmas! Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chadd Thompson Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:09 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA]

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Thanks for the validation Marty. I suspect that some might have thought there was a catch. I almost forgot that the cable was pre-terminated. That's one of the things we don't highlight enough -- VL CPE does not require hidden extra things to buy like power supplies, cable, connectors, mounting

3650 was -- Re: [WISPA] FCC meeting with wisps

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
what would you like to know? There was something just released about 3650. Anyone remember what it was??? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Hey Marlon, the price thresholds are there now for residential too. That's a big part of the entire program. A $285 all inclusive CPE with nothing extra to buy, piece together, etc. should fall within the residential business model of even small WISPs. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion,

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
BreezeACCESS VL CPE under the AlvarionCOMNET program can be had for as low as $245. Even at $285, I'd contend it is cheaper than an equivalent quantity of Canopy or Trango and with better total performance plus the ability to be used for large bandwidth-requiring customers. Also, the OPEX from

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Belton
Hello Marlon, VL won't be a good choice as a committed rate business grade product as it will modulate down in a noisy environment. Without any RX threshold mechanism the VL radio begins to slow and drop packets under heavy business class loads in unfriendly RF environments. Even the references

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Belton
Yep, the cable is pre-terminated in some odd non-code compliant pin configuration. Oh, and pre-terminated due to the fact that the RJ45 connector doesn't fit through the weather seal! Just about a millimeter too small! When are you guys going to start using the standard 568A or 568B pin color

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
It's much closer Patrick. That's for sure. Let run some numbers though. Tranzeo or Inscape Data ap: $450ish. Will deliver an honest 3 to 4 megs to almost anyone at ranges up to 10 miles. 1 to 2 megs out to 15 miles. Sector antenna, $400. Or omni and amp, $500 to $700 depending on the

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
Charles, Although your comment is true, and you left out on the fly flexibilty, what people want is not always the best value, at the end of the day with all things considered. The value of consistent availability and right out of the box deployment is PRICELIST! This doesn't only save cost

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
Brad, I'm not sure that is a fair statement. I agree, TDD/DSSS/Pol Diversity solutions can tackle that noise better, one of the reasons Trango is still the only clear choice for a good number of my cell sites. But there are many reasons WISPs are making the move to OFDM. Alvarion handles

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Yeah, FH gear has it's ups and downs. We do NOT offer ANY speed based plans though. All of our plans automatically assume full speed customers. We sell bits. I'll never understand why the internet industry thinks it's got a better grasp on business realities than any other industry in the

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Mike Cowan
Wow Brad, With as long as you have been at this and the knowledge level you have I am surprised you could be so far off the mark on this one. VL does automodulate and has better RF characteristics than their hoppers did. It won't backoff and die when presented with noise and will still

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Belton
Hello Tom, Just speaking from first hand experience and the experiences of the references Alvarion gave me. Nothing more. grin The VL gear is a great product for a best effort solution, but not a committed rate business class service. Two very different animals. Again, my post was only

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Belton
Wow back at ya there, Mike! grin Never said the product was less in quality in any form. Simply stating the gear doesn't perform well under load in unfriendly RF environments. Alvarion Techs themselves acknowledge the radios back off modulation speeds in the face of noise. Do you know

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
OK then, Patrick, Ed, whoever, is the VL a CSMAK based product like WiFi or a polling based product like Trango? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
- Original Message - From: Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 12:26 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived Wow back at ya there, Mike! grin Never said the product was less in quality in any

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Mike Cowan
Hi Brad, The radio will auto modulate down from mod level 8 to 1 when faced with interference. They won't stop transmitting when interference is present however. They do work like any radio out there, two way radio, Ip radios, Trango radios all need a specific C/I ratio to run correctly.

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Belton
Agreed, Trango is far from immune from interference, but they do give you a few more tools in your bag to combat it. (1) RX Threshold (2) Dual Polarity (3) Dual Band Alvarion VL offers none of these. If they did they would hands down be the best PtMP LE gear available today IMO. However, I

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Andrew Niemantsverdriet
I too am interested in what the minium price would be to put up a POP using Alvarion gear. I really like my Trango gear but this stuff sounds awesome and from what I read the Comnet program is just what I am looking for. To compare to build out a Trango POP it costs about 1600 that includes AP, a

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Belton
Agreed, however like I said if the link is engineered properly the RX threshold will save you more times than not. Is the Trango immune from noise? Absolutely not, but at least you have a tool or two in your bag to work around it. RX threshold - dual band - dual polarity. VL has none of these!

[WISPA] Merry Christmas

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
I just wanted to wish you all a very merry Christmas and a happy new year! It is truly an honor to be associated with y'all. I'm honored to be a part of one of the most progressive, trouble making lots that the internet has ever seen! Take care, sell lots, and above all, stay safe

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Belton
Oh and BTW, what happens to a link that is trying to shove 5Mbps FDX through while auto-rated down to modulation 1 in the event of noise? It drops packets! That was our problem with the VL. The client experienced this and their applications simply would not work. We also were seeing ping

[WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Hi All, OK, so now that we know who our heavy users are I have to come up with a couple of things. First, I have to figure out how many kbps a gig of download would be. Specifically, I've got a couple of customers doing 50 gigs per month. How many kbps does it take to generate that? We

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Brad, This is not something for which opinion has a place. There are facts here and you are asserting things about us that simply false. I personally conceived, wrote and pitched every word, idea, concept, and crossed t of the AlvarionCOMNET program. Its origination has nothing to do with your

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread David E. Smith
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: First, I have to figure out how many kbps a gig of download would be. Specifically, I've got a couple of customers doing 50 gigs per month. How many kbps does it take to generate that? Assuming a month is 30 days (nice round number), 50GB/month is

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
The gaul of us to create a tight seal. I am sorry you are not able to figure out how to attach the connector Brad. Thousands of others seem to manage just fine and when is the last time you ever heard of anyone complaining about water intrusion into a VL VPE or PoE line? It is simply amazing at

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread George Rogato
Guess it cmes down to what you are selling and what does it cost you to do business. First f, you are selling a simle internet conection for a casual user. If you want you can squeeze them fr every little bit. I wonder why you have to charge them more, if you are being billed at the 95%

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Marlon, I'll answer this with a re-post of a September post that explains, in part, why VL is not just regular CSMA: I believe most if not all of the below are features not found among Trango or Canopy. I list a few of the advanced features. A few of these (probably some you have

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread Travis Johnson
Yes, change to a speed model like everyone else (Cable, DSL, WISP) and don't worry about it any more. :) Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, OK, so now that we know who our heavy users are I have to come up with a couple of things. First, I have to figure out

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
- Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: First, I have to figure out how many kbps a gig of download

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Grin, while I've certainly noticed Brad's almost religious dislike of Alvarion I do have to side with him on this. I just called Ben Moore at PacWireless yesterday to bitch about the new Sat. arm mounts he sent me. They have some bizarre metric nut on the dang things. Now I have to carry

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread David E. Smith
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: First, I have to figure out how many kbps a gig of download would be. Specifically, I've got a couple of customers doing 50 gigs per month. How many kbps does it take to generate that? Assuming a month is 30 days (nice round number), 50GB/month is

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Cause it takes just 9 uers at 50 gigs per month to double my BW costs. At $35 per month in service fees, the 50 gig user chews up more than 10% of my costs. He needs to pay more. Or, he needs to get his service from you. Just be glad you aren't a competitor of mine. Right now, we have 9

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
- Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: First, I have to figure out how many kbps a gig of download

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread Travis Johnson
Marlon, Sell your service based on speed... 512k = $xx, 1meg = $xx and so on... then you don't have to worry about who is transferring how much, etc. The people that hog it, just call them and say that's not permitted on our service and if they continue, cap their speed down to 256k or 128k

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread George Rogato
But a cahing server if you can't afford the bandwidth. Seriously, your model, the old model, is about dead and buried. How much does it cost to watch a movie across the net using your system? Just be glad you aren't a competitor of mine. Wrong answer, It should be the other way around.

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
- Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Grin, while I've certainly noticed Brad's

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
I have not had the guts to do what Marlon does. But that doesn't mean there isn't merit in his method. Part of the reason is we put in place technology that allows the use of available bandwdith with limited impact to other users, therefore taking away some of the need to charge for it, if it

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread Andrew Niemantsverdriet
How are you guys tracking usage? What program are you using to measure it and are you measureing every bit or an average? On 12/22/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have not had the guts to do what Marlon does. But that doesn't mean there isn't merit in his method. Part of the reason

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Marlon, You say most of my towers have fewer than 25 users on them... In response to that reality we created a version of the VL AU for rural markets. We came to realize that the cost of a regular of VL AU where likely user counts are low simply was not economical. So we came up with the AUS.

Re: [WISPA] Council rejects wireless proposal

2006-12-22 Thread Tom DeReggi
I agree that everything written in Forbes post may not be politically correct. But his intent was almost heroic. I think whats important is not the exact content of Forbes post, but the concept and purpose. We can't be afraid to tell our city councils what we think. (What ever that is, we each

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Eric Albert
Hi Brad, The cable we supply with the VL product is terminated following the ANSI/EIA/TIA 568-B2 standard. We pre-terminate the cable in an effort to speed the installation process. The design of the weatherproof boot is intentional to provide an impervious seal from the elements. Having

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Belton
Hello Albert, Can you point me to a URL describing the 586-B2 color code? I've searched for a minute or two, but so far everything comes up with the oranges and greens in the 1,2,3 and 6 pin locations. Even if there is a 568-B2 color code why use that color code when the rest of the world uses

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Belton
Well, hello Patrick and Merry Christmas! Yes, the gaul of me to insist a client gets what he pays for. Just what am I thinking! lol Bottom line is as you know the client wasn't happy with the VL product as it wasn't able to keep up with the client demands. I'm sorry that's what it came to,

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Brad Larson
Can anyone else hear the axe grinding in the background.. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:04 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived Hello

Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps

2006-12-22 Thread jefflist
Hi Marlon, Merry Christmas to you and your family! Just a thought, you might want to fire those 9 customers. You could also rate-limit them down to 56K and see how long they stick around. Jeff -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re:

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
HAH, yeah, I was digging rather irritatedly around the van looking for a 10 mm wrench on Monday as well... same thing. I normally do not carry metric tools out on my install rig... Early in the year, I'm going to pick up some Equinox universal mounts. Same long arm, heavy pipe... No 10 mm

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Patrick... I find the 48V power thing a HUGE problem. almost every site I have now is 12V powered... +++ neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington email me at mark at neofast dot net 541-969-8200 Direct commercial inquiries to

RE: [WISPA] Council rejects wireless proposal

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Tom, what one thinks is not the same as threats, libel (in my opinion) and blatant falsehoods (e.g. being the first WISP give a right to protections). Nothing heroic about that. I would contend it is just the opposite. I cringe every time I see a WISP do something dishonest or slimy or just out of

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
The neg 48vDC is simply an option (standard 100-240 vAC is the other option) for powering of the rack mounted chassis. In the telecom space it's very common that folks have racks powered that way. The CPE's themselves are not 48vDC. On the CPE 54 vDC is sent via PoE up to the ODU from the IDU.

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Jon Langeler
With VL, you still run into the issue of self interference in a cellular deployment(many tower sites in a region). The only products I'm aware of that cooperate properly in a cellular deployment are minimally GPS capable, and the advanced products that support things like hand-off or N:1

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
Jon, With a proper channel plan that is just not the case, not to mention things like ATPC. Things like WiMAX use it because there you are dealing with small frequency allocations where every last ounce of efficiency needs to be found. In UL that is not the case since there is so much more

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Patrick Leary
...in fact, I just remembered an excellent example. In the Monterey, CA area there's a VL deployment of over 2,200 CPE in about 3 or 4 square miles from a handfuls of closely co-located cells. Our engineers designed it and it provides over 99% actual coverage of the homes within the cells and the

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

2006-12-22 Thread Marty Dougherty
And I can assure you they don't leak. The secret to having your installers get 3 installs done per day is that cable. As a rule of thumb, 98% of the installs should be done in such a way that that 60ft of cable is enough to get inside to the router-If you have a guy running hundreds of feet of