Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread George Rogato
Those prices don't make me happy either. I have not heard an official anything yet from the wispa calea group. I don't believe they are done with their activities. It would be good to hear what they have to say concerning methods of compliance and costs. I read a doc that said a 15k isp

[WISPA] Vudu Casts Its Spell on Hollywood

2007-04-29 Thread George Rogato
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gizmodo-exclusive/exclusive-pics-of-the-vudu-+-video-store-in-a-box-256044.php http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/business/yourmoney/29vudu.html?ref=technology The system, according to interviews and those patent applications, will operate like a traditional

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Edward H. Winters
actually the prices are the least of my worry regarding calea. i am more worried about some untrusted device on my network. assuming i would have to give root on the at least tap device to the trusted third party. i've been told by some TTPs i would need to provide credentials for every device

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Travis, I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not saying you don't have a good company. Clearly you do. I also think you're a bright guy. There are likely two reasons for the size difference in out companies. The biggest would be market size. My whole COUNTY has 10,000 people in it.

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
We have less than 300 students in our school system here Rick. Our WHOLE school system! k-12 Fortunately, I've got 6000 square miles of coverage :-). marlon - Original Message - From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28,

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
My friend Bob Kirkpatrick is in Spokane and has been more than 6 to 8 years. There are at least 4 or 6 others in the area already. Spokane has a muni network downtown. There are a LOT of trees and hills in town. WiFi coverage sucks in MOST places. It would take at least 5 hops to get form

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I prefer certified gear. Pre built and ready to install. Having said that Dawn, when's the last time the FCC took a wisp to task for using non certified configurations? Hell, I've spent TWO YEARS trying to get an operator running over the eirp limits (way over) dealt with and still no

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
We've got a long way to go yet. But here are a few things so far. You don't NEED a safe harbor. You don't HAVE to follow anyone's industry standard to be compliant. You don't need a TTP. What you DO have to do is collect specific data. How you do so is up to you. You do have to do it

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Doesn't work that way Ed. YOU have to provide the data to LEA. They don't get to go in and take it. marlon - Original Message - From: Edward H. Winters [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Travis Johnson
Marlon, Your comment that I was short sighted because I don't turn potential customers over to my competition really hit a nerve. Sure we have made some mistakes along the way, but being called short sighted because I don't share networks and customers with competition is asinine. You talk

Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
*nods* their minimum is 5k cards and I'm looking to go smaller than that. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
It's called roaming. It happens with everyone but Nextel. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 11:38 AM Subject:

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
- Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page We've got a long way to go yet. No, we have 3 weeks. But here are a few things so far.

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Roaming is not the same as sending the Client Account to the other company. On 4/29/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's called roaming. It happens with everyone but Nextel. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message -

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread John Scrivner
I like to think of it more like constructive public pressure rather than paranoia. Paranoia would be a term used in regard to unfounded concern. Certification as a matter of law is not unfounded concern, it is fact and therefore paranoia is not a just description of the pressures we see being

[WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread John Scrivner
Is anyone else getting tired of sorting through the exhaustive amount of email we are getting on the public list? Much of it is good stuff but I think we see some people who are posting more than we need to all see. I am thinking we should consider a post count limit per day per person. I

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Edward H. Winters
Marlon, i understand the mechanics of it completely. the provider or the TTP have to provide the information within 8 seconds of real time to the LEA via a mediation device. every trusted third party i have talked with so far wants access on at least the intercept device. Ed On Sun, 29 Apr

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Dawn DiPietro
Marlon, Do you really believe the FCC does not care if WISP's are using uncertified gear? I doubt that you actually believe this. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I prefer certified gear. Pre built and ready to install. Having said that Dawn, when's the last time the FCC

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Travis Johnson
Roaming would be more closely compared with peering than wholesaling. The cell companies trade minutes back and forth each month, they don't sell off the customer. Travis Microserv Mike Hammett wrote: It's called roaming. It happens with everyone but Nextel. - Mike Hammett Intelligent

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
Roaming is the exact same thing as Marlon does, which is what we're talking about. You collect the revenues from the user, but the user is on someone else's equipment. You pay the other network for the use of it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
Don't get me wrong, I'm not avoiding a certified system. However, it is just one of the many factors that go in to choosing a system. The cards I am using are certified with the antennas I use (to the best of my knowledge, waiting for the FCC to come back up). I will have my Mikrotik

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
I joined this list last week and already consider leaving due to the drama. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 2:07 PM Subject:

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
It's called prioritization, we all do it. Going after ma and pa wisp isn't very high on their list of things to do. With as rare as they bust a rogue vendor or manufacturer, how often do you think they go after someone intentionally using grossly overpowered gear, much less certified

Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing

2007-04-29 Thread George Rogato
One thing I should point out is the postage costs. If you go to your local chamber of commerce and get their bulk mail permit number you can pay bulk rate at the post office. They typically let all the local businesses use it no charge. Now if you compare the difference in postage price

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Dawn DiPietro
Mike, There is no excuse for using uncertified gear no matter who is at fault. This attitude is going to hurt the WISP industry more than anything. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: It's called prioritization, we all do it. Going after ma and pa wisp isn't very high on their list

Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing

2007-04-29 Thread Joe Laura
I used to give dominos pizza a few hundread flyers at a time for satellite tv specials and they would stick em on the boxes for free. Best marketing I have ever done. When I finally saturated that parish where I was that was the end of that. Joe Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread George Rogato
Dawn DiPietro wrote: Mike, There is no excuse for using uncertified gear no matter who is at fault. This attitude is going to hurt the WISP industry more than anything. Dawn, we got to where we are today because of the independent thinking tech who rolled his own systems. I very much

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
I wish I had 30. ;-) 11 paying customers here. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA]

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread George Rogato
I just hit next when it's thread that is tiresome. Maybe a posting limit for nonmembers :) Overall, if the dialogue is kept civil there should be no issues. Ranting is old though. John Scrivner wrote: Is anyone else getting tired of sorting through the exhaustive amount of email we

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread George Rogato
Yeah, but you have all kinds of things going on. I see you on all the various lists looking for everything from fiber paths to long distance.. Heck, one of these days, I may even buy something from you. George Mike Hammett wrote: I wish I had 30. ;-) 11 paying customers here. - Mike

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
I will admit that I have a lot of potential, but potential doesn't mean dollars now. More than once I've looked at finding a part time job (again) so I have some money to invest in my operations. I need more equipment. I need more marketing. I need developers. I have no or little money to pay

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Dawn DiPietro
George, I am not painting a bad picture of anyone. I just think that if you are going to be a part of this industry then you need to play by the rules no matter how much you dislike it. Yes, there was innovation by breaking the rules in the beginning but that was before there was an industry.

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Peter R.
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: We're flying blind, here. None of us small guys have lawers, consultants, or super techies who can just do this, much less implement the time constraints and 24/7/365 aspects, etc. And we're wondering why the only organization devoted to our industry won't even appeal

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread ralphlists
So are you telling us you are exempt, then? The justificatiom is that you are small- a Ma and Pa? Mikrotik certification is already sorted out. They are not approved. Look for the label on the end product. If you made it yourself, it ain't certified! Don't get me wrong, I'm not avoiding a

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Peter R.
Same can be said of Insurance, since really that's what it is. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: don't forget, you can't charge LEA for the TTP's services. You may pay that TTP for years and they never do a single thing for you. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:

RE: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Ty Carter Lightwave Communications
I vote NO to posting limits... If you don't like the amount of mail, then unsubscribe to the mail and get a daily digest (if it is available) or read the posts via www; but I don't think posting limits should be imposed Ty Carter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
I have contacted my representatives to express my support for Rep. Stupak's efforts. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
Yes, the rules have changed. They are more lax than they were in the past. As I said, I have a path to compliance. There was, is, and will continue to be innovation in this industry. If not, we're all dead. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Mike Hammett
I am not exempt from anything, but my 11 customers and I can certainly fly under the radar using gear isn't harming anyone until I have completed my Mikrotik compliance efforts. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From:

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page.... telecom services

2007-04-29 Thread Peter R.
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: There are many other ways for law enforcement to get what it needs. Even better would be a REAL law, written properly, and funded properly by Congress, instead of this absurdity about information services and telecommuncations services. You know, of course, that this

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Dawn DiPietro
Mike, If you think you are under the radar you are sorely mistaken. You admitted on a public list that gear you use is not certified. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: I am not exempt from anything, but my 11 customers and I can certainly fly under the radar using gear isn't

[WISPA] CALEA's Burden

2007-04-29 Thread Peter R.
I know I am WAY past my posting limit today. As long as we are talking about burdens let's quickly discuss the libraries and schools. These are the 2 groups that are in court fighting CALEA. I spoke with a guy Friday who is head of computer security for a state college who did not even know

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Ryan Langseth
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 14:07 -0500, John Scrivner wrote: Is anyone else getting tired of sorting through the exhaustive amount of email we are getting on the public list? Much of it is good stuff but I think we see some people who are posting more than we need to all see. I am thinking we

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread George Rogato
Dawn DiPietro wrote: Mike, If you think you are under the radar you are sorely mistaken. You admitted on a public list that gear you use is not certified. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Yeah, but your over the limit! :) I just want to know why the feds don't just drive on over to Teletronics in

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Travis Johnson
Except in Marlon's case that user will NEVER be on your own network. Roaming is the exception not the norm with cell companies. Personally I think a better solution (if you absolutely don't want to just put up your own towers) is to just refer the customer to the other provider and hope they

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Sure they are. I have an Inland Cellular account. A small local company. Guess where it works. Anywhere Verizon and 3 or 4 others have networks! Guess what, you can have a Verison account and it works here. Even if you don't have a clue who Inland Cellular is. What's wrong with one of

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page.... telecom services

2007-04-29 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page telecom services Mark Koskenmaki wrote: There are many other ways for law enforcement to get what it

[WISPA] was School WiFi , about technical values.

2007-04-29 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
- Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Dawn DiPietro wrote: Mike, If you think you are under the radar you are sorely mistaken.

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
- Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I think it's just fine. It's a good list. We can all delete what we don't want to read. I do that with a lot of the posts. If people start complaining about the traffic on the FREE list, tell them to join wispa and get on the better list ;-) marlon - Original Message - From:

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Not so. Not always. In fact, not usually from what we've been told. They (lea) won't often have the ability to TAKE the data as fast as we can shove it out to the customer. With a PHONE call, that's likely the case. But unless you do VOIP, as in own the switch, the voip company will have

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Unfortunately, their ACTIONS bear this out Dawn. As I said, when's the last time you heard of anyone getting in trouble for using the wrong antenna? Hell, people don't even get in trouble for using the wrong AMPS!!! And they made the amp rules stronger a couple of years ago. marlon -

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Mike, This is a great list. There's always drama when there are people involved. The private list is much better. Join wispa and take advantage of that. As for what's happening here, it happens from time to time. Usually dies off or we squish it once it's gone on till there's absolutely

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Cool! That's more than I stared with! We'll hit 425 by the end of the year. More than that if the growth doesn't slow down a little. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 2:41 PM

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
With 11 customers I HIGHLY suggest you get a part time job. Something flexible if you can. Taking that financial stress off will help you do a much better job. I drove tractor, did consulting, speaking, equipment sales, wrote articles etc. Whatever I could to make extra money. If I'd not

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
- Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Really? um, exactly WHO do you call when your upstream goes down? As ours did with a major fiber cut a couple of weeks ago? We're ALREADY, ALWAYS dependant on others. Teamwork! marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Felix A. Lopez
Marlon, I just joined this list and agree with your recommendations to supplment with a part time job. Prior to my current position, I worked at a winery on swing shift from 4 pm to 12 midnite and did my consulting work in the day time. Whew. And later I got hired by a big company in fixed

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Travis Johnson
I'm calling Qwest, ATT or Level3. Places that have senior level BGP techs on staff 24x7. With a full SLA in place for outages. Not some guys cell phone. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Really? um, exactly WHO do you call when your upstream goes down? As ours did with a major

Re: [WISPA] was School WiFi , about technical values.

2007-04-29 Thread Jack Unger
See comment inline, near end of post. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Dawn DiPietro wrote: Mike, If

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
- Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General

Re: [WISPA] Posting limits?

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Welcome Felix! Sounds like you've been around the block a time or two. Very cool. Did you know that there is an associate WISPA membership level? It allows you to be involved, sit on the board etc. I hope you'll be more involved here. I think that many of the issues that affect us are

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Oh brother. Now you're just being obstinate Travis. I honestly thought you were smart enough to substitute the appropriate level technician for some guys on cell phone. What you just said is that most (all) of your peers, including your OWN techs, aren't as smart or as capable of

Re: [WISPA] was School WiFi , about technical values.

2007-04-29 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
- Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] was School WiFi , about technical values. See comment inline, near end of post. Wrong. Certification DOES test for out of band

Re: [WISPA] was School WiFi , about technical values.

2007-04-29 Thread Felix A. Lopez
Jack - I would be interested in motivating the manufacturers. I work for a large manufacturer but plan to go to a smaller company becase I like working in focused delta team environment. But I can see how working with manufacturers can be helpful. Can you provide additional thoughts. Marlon -

Re: [WISPA] was School WiFi , about technical values.

2007-04-29 Thread Jack Unger
Mark, Certification verifies that the signals conducted into the power line and the signals radiated into the air from a wireless system are clean and that they do not exceed the power limits. Minimizing self interference is primarily a function of good network design techniques. This is

Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-29 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
- Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General