Re: [WISPA] BIP/BTOP = Big Government in Missouri

2009-10-29 Thread Scottie Arnett
Ask them what is going to happen when someone DIG's in and that Fiber is cut. How long to take to repair it? It's not as simple as as soldering two points together. How long are those customers going to be down? It happens all the time. What if the city decides to put in a Subway where that

Re: [WISPA] Long 5Ghz link over water

2009-10-29 Thread Tom DeReggi
I do have a TLink-45 pair sitting around (non connectorized) that I could test. Is there a hack to put a pigtail on these? 23 miles is pushing the range of the internal antennas. If the enclosure is removed from the antenna, by undoing the 9 screws, it is possible to connect the Tlink to an

Re: [WISPA] powering finicky mikrotiks on 24v solar

2009-10-29 Thread Blair Davis
good idea, but not too power efficient. Steve wrote: I was not so happy either when I found out the newest line of MT boards didn't work on my already functioning 24vdc system. I have however been successful with a simple LM7818 regulator with a couple of tantalum caps and a good

Re: [WISPA] cellular repeater/bidirectional amps

2009-10-29 Thread Bret Clark
If you are using a repeater that is FCC approved then I don't see why the FCC would get involved...Cell phone repeaters are legal to use Scottie Arnett wrote: I maybe late to chime in, but when I asked about something similar, I heard a resounding problem with not communicating with the

Re: [WISPA] powering finicky mikrotiks on 24v solar

2009-10-29 Thread Blair Davis
I know why it was done, I just wish it wasn't that way. Bell Labs got it right the first time with the 48VDC POE system. Independent of line length, 48V POE just works. I've solved my problem with a 48VDC to 24VDC 18W converter that I add when I build my tower gear. Adds about $15 in parts

Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey

2009-10-29 Thread Tom DeReggi
Butch, There are many venues to get quality MT content for example, I'd rather WISPA push content that WISPs cant get anywhere else to push a stronger call to action to come. I don't understand this statement at all. I am assuming you mean you would like to see content in this show that

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Tom DeReggi
I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM

Re: [WISPA] cellular repeater/bidirectional amps

2009-10-29 Thread Scottie Arnett
-- Original Message -- From: Bret Clark bcl...@spectraaccess.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:43:25 -0400 I understand. Just repeating what was told to me. I was working with a Wilson sales person to repeat

Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

2009-10-29 Thread Scottie Arnett
And... Hulu investors are considering HARD on charging for content access as of about a month ago, a google search will surmise. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Verizon fiber

2009-10-29 Thread Cameron Kilton
You we need to see where the closest splice point is. -Cameron -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Valenti Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Verizon fiber I'm assuming

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Cameron Kilton
MTI -Cameron -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for

Re: [WISPA] Verizon fiber

2009-10-29 Thread Cameron Kilton
Chances are, too much for anybody. -Cameron -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Kilton Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:54 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon fiber You we need to see where

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread 3-dB Networks
This one is 15dBi minimum from MTI... http://www.mtiwe.com/uploads/product/239.pdf I'd expect to pay somewhere around $550 or so for it though Other than that I have only seen 10 and 12dBi ones typically. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From:

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Cameron Kilton
You won't find a 16dbi omni in 5.8ghz, I've never seen one. We have used a 12dbi omni and it works well. Once thing I have noticed is that 5.8ghz high gain omni work better at the lower end of the 5.8 band. -Cameron -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Joe Miller
I have some slightly used 15dB omni's if you need any. - Original Message From: Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thu, October 29, 2009 7:55:44 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni MTI -Cameron -Original Message- From:

Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey

2009-10-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I'd agree with Tom's idea here. Vendor specific training should run the day before or after INDUSTRY specific training. marlon - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:06 AM Subject:

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Yeah. I don't use any omni's over 8 or 9 dB. Well, I guess I have one 10 out there, but I keep taking it out The ONLY time I've suggested people use higher gain ones is when they are on a rooftop that's the same height as everyone else or down in a valley with customers up the sides.

Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

2009-10-29 Thread Mike Hammett
That doesn't surprise me. The TV companies own Hulu anyway, so it was inevitable that'd they'd need money from somewhere eventually. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scottie Arnett

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Joe Miller
I also have a box load of maxrad 9dB omni antennas if anyone needs them. - Original Message From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thu, October 29, 2009 8:48:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni Yeah.  I don't use any omni's over 8

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Michael Baird
Tom, This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at least 100ft+. Regards Michael Baird I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From:

Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

2009-10-29 Thread Josh Cheney
Jerry Richardson wrote: TV over wireless is a non-starter. Even if you used MPEG4 which is really for video you still can only get 2-3 channels. I was recently speaking with a relative of mine who is now getting his TV delivered over DSL. He is an engineer, so he asked the tech for a bit

[WISPA] OSPF maximums

2009-10-29 Thread Jory Privett
For all of you routing gurus out there, On MikroTiks version, or any other brand, of OSPF what is the maximum number of routes or routers in a single OSPF Area? Is this only limitied by CPU/Memory or is there something else that dictates it? Jory

Re: [WISPA] budget friendly set top boxes

2009-10-29 Thread Mike Hammett
You won't be able to use any traditional US channels over a wireless system. They won't license it. SD is about a meg or two and HD requires 5 - 10. At times, my house would then require 17 - 34 megs. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey

2009-10-29 Thread Matt Jenkins
I was just giving examples. I was not saying show only those vendors equipment, but trying to convey that having discussions that compare and contract types of hardware like routers, or layer 3 switches, etc. Or maybe a discussion that shows to to create effective routing solutions showing

Re: [WISPA] Time Running Out for Trade Show Survey

2009-10-29 Thread Matt Jenkins
I meant there wasn't a big text area at the bottom where I could type up additional comments. Forbes Mercy wrote: Thanks for the comment but you are incorrect, there is a field for your comments on many of the questions, specifically the one you talked about. I took the survey,

Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

2009-10-29 Thread Nick Olsen
If I understand correctly, There is no limit. But I vaguely remember something about OSPF being unstable with 500+ routers. As you start to get to much crosstalk overhead. If its a big area you would need to do like OSPF and BGP I don't remember how it went, something like transit routes with

Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

2009-10-29 Thread Kevin Neal
I'm pretty sure the limit is just CPU/Memory. We currently 112 routing entries in one of our networks, this is on a network with 24 OSPF routers. -Kevin On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Jory Privett j...@wccs.net wrote: For all of you routing gurus out there,   On MikroTiks version,  or any

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread ccrum
You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS. The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a 9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't use that

Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

2009-10-29 Thread Dennis Burgess
I think a good OSPF single area would be around 75 routers. Over that you get quite a bit of traffic. Not saying that this is a hard limit, just a rule of thumb. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Michael Baird
What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8? An example would be http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing. Regards Michael Baird You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do,

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Jeremy Parr
2009/10/29 Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com: What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8? An example would be http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing. I would be very concerned about

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread ccrum
That is not really an omni. It is three sectors meant to be fed with three different radios. That being said, and in regard to my last post, a back to back array with a couple of 90's fed correctly would yield a pretty nice omni pattern that you could get close to 16 dB. Two 18 dB sectors with

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread 3-dB Networks
Actually I think this antenna would work perfect for what he wants http://www.mtiwe.com/uploads/product/239.pdf And I doubt that spec sheet is BS (but then again I don't build antennas myself :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From:

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Mac Dearman
It could be a nightmare, but with appropriate channels being selected - - it could be ok. IMHO - this is no worse than using multiple radios in a single enclosure in the same frequency. I guess it could be worse if you were using multiple radios in a single enclosure AND using an antenna like this

Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

2009-10-29 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
Using StarOS we have about 480 subnet routes propagating throughout our network. This represents approximately 220 routed devices. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Dennis Burgess wrote: I think a good OSPF single area would be around 75 routers. Over that you get quite a bit of traffic. Not

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Mike
Cameron: Your prowess as an antenna designer is well known. Define a decent splitter, and where one might find one. I think that solution would be usable to a wide group on this list. Mike At 12:05 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote: That is not really an omni. It is three sectors meant to be fed

Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

2009-10-29 Thread Butch Evans
On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 10:33 -0500, Jory Privett wrote: For all of you routing gurus out there, On MikroTiks version, or any other brand, of OSPF what is the maximum number of routes or routers in a single OSPF Area? Is this only limitied by CPU/Memory or is there something else that

Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

2009-10-29 Thread Butch Evans
On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 09:44 -0600, Kevin Neal wrote: I'm pretty sure the limit is just CPU/Memory. We currently 112 routing entries in one of our networks, this is on a network with 24 OSPF routers. Number of routes is not that much of a problem. I have one customer with about 8k OSPF

Re: [WISPA] OSPF maximums

2009-10-29 Thread Butch Evans
On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 13:06 -0500, Butch Evans wrote: So, the short answer is: Keep the number of interfaces around (or below) 100 or so. I should add that I DO have customers who have well over 150 ROUTERS with multiple interfaces in a single area. This limit is not a hard limit. The other

Re: [WISPA] WISPCON?

2009-10-29 Thread Rick Kunze
Didn't know this list worked. I still have it in my filters! Rk On 9/30/2009 10:41 AM, Larry Yunker wrote: Last I had heard, Michael decided that due to the state of the economy, October 2009 was probably not the right time to hold another conference. I know he has interest in scheduling

[WISPA] Outdoor UPS

2009-10-29 Thread Michael Baird
Looking for recommendations on an Outdoor UPS, not concerned about a long run time, just to handle the occasional blips. Form factor and mounting considerations are one of the main concerns with this install. Will be fed by AC power, but it can distribute as a single AC or DC feed, something

Re: [WISPA] Outdoor UPS

2009-10-29 Thread Scott Parsons
Michael, These systems are powered by POE. Not sure if that works for you. http://tyconpower.com/products/systems.htm Scott -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:13 PM To:

Re: [WISPA] Outdoor UPS

2009-10-29 Thread Jayson Baker
APC and Cyberpower makes some. 12V or 48V output. Outdoor mounted. AC power input. We used them for a FTTH project once. On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Scott Parsons sc...@e-zy.net wrote: Michael, These systems are powered by POE. Not sure if that works for you.

[WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

2009-10-29 Thread Randy Cosby
I have a couple solar panels on a water tank. A few months ago the water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels the whole time, so there is a very thin layer of paint on them. Not sure what kind of paint it is, but I can scratch it off with my fingernails. I don't

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

2009-10-29 Thread Dennis Burgess
Plastic ice scraper! :) --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website:

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

2009-10-29 Thread Mike
Are the tops smooth glass? Just use a single edged razor held at a shallow angle and some elbow grease. Mike At 03:51 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote: I have a couple solar panels on a water tank. A few months ago the water company painted the tank, and obviously didn't cover our panels the whole

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

2009-10-29 Thread jp
Ask your local autobody folks. Any sort of chemical paint remover is probably fine as long as you don't let it seep or run too much. The solar panels are simply covered with safety glass. On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 02:51:07PM -0600, Randy Cosby wrote: I have a couple solar panels on a water

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

2009-10-29 Thread Greg
An automotive plastic snow/ice scraper might be a good choice - less chance of damaging the panels. On 10/29/09, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: Ask your local autobody folks. Any sort of chemical paint remover is probably fine as long as you don't let it seep or run too much. The solar

Re: [WISPA] Long 5Ghz link over water

2009-10-29 Thread Jeremy Parr
2009/10/28 Jeremy Parr jeremyp...@gmail.com: I have a 23 mile link completely over water that I cannot get stable. One end is approx 200ft AGL, 220ft ASL, the other end is 50' AGL, 90' ASL. Antennas are V-Pol 29dbi grids, radios are R5H cards. I have tried the link at both 5.2, and 5.8, but it

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

2009-10-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
How about a razor knife? We actually use one of them to clean our fancy glass top cook stove. Doesn't seem to scratch it at all. marlon - Original Message - From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:51 PM

Re: [WISPA] cellular repeater/bidirectional amps

2009-10-29 Thread Blake Bowers
It is FCC approved insofar as the technical standards. Legality of use belongs with the end user - and the FCC has clearly stated that the cell phone repeaters must be coordinated with the carriers whose signals are being repeated, otherwise their use is illegal. An example of the FCC approval,

[WISPA] TV interfering with 5.8GHz?

2009-10-29 Thread Adam Greene
Hi, Just installed a 5.8GHz Alvarion VL on a roof with lots of TV antennas. Interference was horrible. We were not expecting that, as the main TV antenna culprit says 490 on the side -- I assume 490MHz. My obscure reasoning tells me that if there were a really strong signal on 483.33MHz, it

Re: [WISPA] TV interfering with 5.8GHz?

2009-10-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Are these the TV transmitters? As in on the TV station or a community repeater site? If so, this could just be too much general RF for the system to deal with. I've also had trouble on the ethernet side of things at an FM radio station. marlon - Original Message - From: Adam Greene

Re: [WISPA] TV interfering with 5.8GHz?

2009-10-29 Thread jp
Is the interference to you or to the TV signal? What is grounded and where? Perhaps you are causing a ground loop by doing grounding differently than they did or something? If to the TV signal ? Are you using shielded cat5e cabling and grounding an end of the shield drain wire? Any other

Re: [WISPA] TV interfering with 5.8GHz?

2009-10-29 Thread Adam Greene
Guys, thanks for the brainstorm ideas. Interference is to us. And yes, it makes sense that since this is not a TV station building, these antennas are probably receive only. There is a huge omni antenna with 490 printed on the side, which is where we took the idea of 490MHz from, but it's

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

2009-10-29 Thread Jerry Richardson
It's likely water base in which warm soapy water and a squeeqee will suffice. Don't use anything abrasive. If it's oil base, it may still come off with warm soapy water as it overspray tends to be partially dry by the time it lands. Try not to scrape as it leaves small scratches that catch

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

2009-10-29 Thread Mike
I nosed around the Internet looking at the various designs of stripline dividers. It is almost trivial to make one. But the more I think about it, if I am going to coordinate a climb to hang a pair of antennae, I'd probably just carry two radios up and run them separate and sectorized. If

[WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread Mike
I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower setup. 1 antenna; two radios. Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio failed, the other would come on-line. The replacement climb would be taken out of the EMERGENCY category. A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread Scott Carullo
I think the concept of combining functionality into single units and fault tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive. I believe more people have had problems with more complicated installs than more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs. I think a well planned combination of

Re: [WISPA] Outdoor UPS

2009-10-29 Thread Chuck Profito
Is there an enclosure? Are there Costco's in your area? Triplite 1000 VA / 500 watt $99.95 We put these on our repeaters with a additional battery in our enclosure. Default setting is 'ON' We have deployed about 80-100 of these, only had one failure. We are in central California, so mild

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions - paint overspray on solar panels

2009-10-29 Thread RickG
And on that note, why not contact the solar panel manufacturer? -RickG On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 5:03 PM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: Ask your local autobody folks. Any sort of chemical paint remover is probably fine as long as you don't let it seep or run too much. The solar panels are

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread Mike
Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list: An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no issues. A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each. Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper. It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
How high is the tower this is all on? If you run the calcs for line loss, even at 5 gig, up to 100' of coax isn't horrible much of the time. I'm putting more and more radios back on the ground these days. LMR 600 or 900 can pay for it's self in a climb or two. laters, marlon - Original

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread Chuck Profito
Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you don't have to go to the tower. http://www.dinrelay.com this unit saves the trip up the hill. Small one $125 with auto reboot, 16 port $295 All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto reboot on most of the

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread Mike
Those are cool. I use their web switches already; never looked at that relay product. Marlons idea is good for repeater sites. I am thinking of my main tower -- 180'. Scott, I have not lost a radio on that tower in 4 years, but DID lose an Ethernet port on one after 2 direct strikes in a

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread os10rules
Some remote control devices I've been looking at for remote controlling our generator: http://www.controlbyweb.com/webrelay-quad/ (this one comes in a commercial model that accepts 9-28vdc power) Greg On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: Or do it your way and add this to

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread Chuck Profito
Their $135 against $119. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment Some remote control

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread Chuck Profito
Oops, my bad DL's is $150 each 10 + 119 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment Some

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread os10rules
Yeah but it goes to 28vdc vs 24vdc. Those 4 extra volts might make a difference for folks doing 24 volt solar. On Oct 29, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: Their $135 against $119. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On

Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment

2009-10-29 Thread Chuck Profito
Yes I see that, good point, the dl will do 40Vdc but 24 is max recommended. It also drops out at 8. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:18 PM To: WISPA General List