Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Great post Mac. Thanks for the vote of confidence! Now go put those comments on every OTHER list you're on! We need this kind of thing said, over and over and over, in places that don't know about or don't participate in wispa. We need Stu to join! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today I have complete confidence in our leadership thus far and remember that we are an infant organization. I think with the election tomorrow and continued support from those who are going into office we are well on our way to having a jam up jelly good organization. I know the heart of every one of the men who have been instrumental in putting this organization together from day one. I know that they want an industry owned, member driven power house that will have a say in Washington as well as in individual States. The men we will see in office Wednesday are the ones who have been the movers and shakers in this industry for years and have my utmost allegiance and respect. I cant say that I have agreed with everything, but then I dont agree with everything that goes on under my own roof either :-) I think what we need more than anything to accomplish what we need is a very large mouth! That mouth can only be trumpeted by a mass of individuals coming together under one umbrella - - WISPA and jointly having WISPA speak for us as a whole. I look at what the Gay rights activists have accomplished with their lobbying (not that I agree there either) although the gay population is really not that large. Its just well funded, out spoken, very organized, very active and very seen across the country. IMHO we to will have to use some of their tactics, be very loud and obnoxious to the point of being pushy and refuse to NOT be heard and seen. I think WISPA is the very thing for this industry as it is a one of a kind. Its made up of folks like you and me, and Larsen and Scriv and Harnish and so on - - just every day good ole boys with an agenda. I think that when we hold hands ( I am not gay) and stand up we will have to be heard. I dont think that we can be ignored if we go about this the right way. Do you remember the million man march in DC? There really wasnt half that many people, but it was the attention they stirred up that makes it so memorable. That was in 1995!!! How about we have a march in DC up the steps to the FCC's offices all the while surfing the net and sending emails to reporters back in our home states, live web cameras rolling while Scrivner gives us a whooda thunk it speech. I think there are a lot of things we can do once this election is over and done. The election is the first step toward accomplishing great things in this industry. The next real step is membership!! WHO AINT PAID THEM DUES??? Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4227 Rudolph Worrell wrote: Mac, I am with you. We need to be very aware but also plan and propose so that we are not spoken for in an ill way. One thing that would really help here and on the paid side of things is to have clear goals, leadership, and direction. Quoting Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I say whoooa mule! I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we are taxed per user - - - then we will just pass that on to the end user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to find ways to keep it :-) From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4227 John Scrivner wrote: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
SureAlot of municipalities say go away. It's that easy. Some take it on a case by case basis. But overall the attitude is if you are not a utility as outlined by the PSC (Public Service Commission) you are pretty much out of luck. Again..it varies by state but here the last thing they want to do is deal with the stress that the utilities will dump on them -B- Jeromie Reeves wrote: Can you explain how it is not available? Yes the insurance is killer. Jeromie Reeves Bob Moldashel wrote: Jeromie Reeves wrote: Right of Way access is available to anyone right now. Ask your local city/county for the ROW contracts that they have with the gas, cable, telco, electric, and others. Jeromie Reeves Unfortunately...It is not available in alot of places here in NY and CT. And where it isthe insurance provisions are a real killer. -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Sorry to reply to my own post here but I forgot one important part of this I meant to include. Under this policy we would suggest that unlicensed spectrum would remain absolutely free of charges. The fees would only apply to all un-auctioned whitespace in all bands across the entire radio spectrum that are neither currently assigned or unlicensed for other uses.. Scriv John Scrivner wrote: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
I like the idea of offering to be taxed for something in exchange. This way at least we get something WE VALUE instead of settling for something stupid later on. I've been playing a lot of poker lately. First to act usually wins the pot. Let's try acting first. Always reacting sucks. John Scrivner wrote: Sorry to reply to my own post here but I forgot one important part of this I meant to include. Under this policy we would suggest that unlicensed spectrum would remain absolutely free of charges. The fees would only apply to all un-auctioned whitespace in all bands across the entire radio spectrum that are neither currently assigned or unlicensed for other uses.. Scriv John Scrivner wrote: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come up with the taxing idea. And one needs to wonder who came up with the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum. It surely wasn't George hyimself. -B- Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
yeah, how about allowing any wattage on ptmp links in exchange for the tax, THAT i'd like. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I like the idea of offering to be taxed for something in exchange. This way at least we get something WE VALUE instead of settling for something stupid later on. I've been playing a lot of poker lately. First to act usually wins the pot. Let's try acting first. Always reacting sucks. John Scrivner wrote: Sorry to reply to my own post here but I forgot one important part of this I meant to include. Under this policy we would suggest that unlicensed spectrum would remain absolutely free of charges. The fees would only apply to all un-auctioned whitespace in all bands across the entire radio spectrum that are neither currently assigned or unlicensed for other uses.. Scriv John Scrivner wrote: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan. Scriv Bob Moldashel wrote: Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come up with the taxing idea. And one needs to wonder who came up with the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum. It surely wasn't George hyimself. -B- Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Ha. I reread my post. I don't want to be taxed out of business, but a few pennies *right* here or there in exchange for the right thing might be worth it. Rick Smith wrote: yeah, how about allowing any wattage on ptmp links in exchange for the tax, THAT i'd like. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I like the idea of offering to be taxed for something in exchange. This way at least we get something WE VALUE instead of settling for something stupid later on. I've been playing a lot of poker lately. First to act usually wins the pot. Let's try acting first. Always reacting sucks. John Scrivner wrote: Sorry to reply to my own post here but I forgot one important part of this I meant to include. Under this policy we would suggest that unlicensed spectrum would remain absolutely free of charges. The fees would only apply to all un-auctioned whitespace in all bands across the entire radio spectrum that are neither currently assigned or unlicensed for other uses.. Scriv John Scrivner wrote: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Ok...Here is a quote from the story.. WASHINGTON-President Bush, facing a huge budget deficit, today proposed squeezing more money from the nation's airwaves by supporting legislative changes that would allow the Federal Communications Commission to set user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum. It says user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum Granted the press might have mis-stated the story but it reads pretty clear to me. Part 15 is un-auctioned spectrum. And considering we use the spectrum, who wouuld pay the user fees?? And the heading of the story specifically states unlicensed spectrum. S..I am open to suggestions. PersonallyI am tired of paying money for everything and getting nothing in return. But I'm a team player so lead on -B- John Scrivner wrote: If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan. Scriv -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
I would have to agree. Any new spectrum would be taxable. I would be ok with that, if it meant new spectrum. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan. Scriv Bob Moldashel wrote: Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come up with the taxing idea. And one needs to wonder who came up with the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum. It surely wasn't George hyimself. -B- Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
I do not want to pay tax on the current part-15 spectrum. I find it unfair to change the rules half way into a game. How about opening new part-15 spectrum with those rules. Someone said to give first right of way to the first operator on a specific channel. This is a bad idea for the current p-15 spectrum. There should also be rules on this new spectrum preventing one operator from having a lock on more then 30% of the spectrum in ant given area or we will see people dumping AP's and doing nothing useful just like the evil patent holding companies. It should also come with a 6month or less use it or lose it tag. If you get a license for first rights in area XCV then you better get to using it or let someone else in to use it. Ive got my asbestos skivvies so flame on. Jeromie Reeves John Scrivner wrote: If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan. Scriv Bob Moldashel wrote: Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come up with the taxing idea. And one needs to wonder who came up with the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum. It surely wasn't George hyimself. -B- Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
This is a good thought to get something out of the deal. I really think that we need access to utility easments. Imagine putting an AP everywhere the cable and phone company aggregates thier fiber/wires etc. Imagine being able to put an AP on or near a stop sign or anywhere you deem necessary to deliver your service. This would greatly help our LOS problems and bandwidth issues. Quoting John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Hey no pun intended but who is the guy that gets to say I told you so? -- Quoting Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well...They sure couldn't have timed it any better. Now we will see how many people file. 24 Hours ago i would have said this never would have occured. Now.Well...Let me just say I am tired of paying for everything in the land of the free and the home of the brave -B- Blair Davis wrote: Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Good one. On a serious note though we need to get the membership up to do any of this. To the powers that be can I help in ramping up support. I could dedicate a resouce to call you sorry sons like myself and take your money :). Quoting John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan. Scriv Bob Moldashel wrote: Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come up with the taxing idea. And one needs to wonder who came up with the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum. It surely wasn't George hyimself. -B- Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Mac, I am with you. We need to be very aware but also plan and propose so that we are not spoken for in an ill way. One thing that would really help here and on the paid side of things is to have clear goals, leadership, and direction. Quoting Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I say whoooa mule! I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we are taxed per user - - - then we will just pass that on to the end user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to find ways to keep it :-) From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4227 John Scrivner wrote: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
This sounds allot like what Mark K was talking about. WISPA needs to find out what the deal is and (imo) fight any taxing on license free bands. P-15 spectrum built the wisp industry as it is today and people need it so it can build the next wave of wispdom. Taxes will make RD money dry up and any end products that do make it cost more. More/New taxes = more/new book keeping = higher cost of operations = higher price for products. A new spectrum (5.4ghz?) with taxes setup on it from the get go and other features (first rights, limited camping, and higher erip) would be very nice. I would be willing to pay for such but not on current spectrum, its just to clogged up with so much consumer hardware. Jeromie Reeves Mac Dearman wrote: I say whoooa mule! I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we are taxed per user - - - then we will just pass that on to the end user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to find ways to keep it :-) From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4227 John Scrivner wrote: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Right of Way access is available to anyone right now. Ask your local city/county for the ROW contracts that they have with the gas, cable, telco, electric, and others. Jeromie Reeves Rudolph Worrell wrote: This is a good thought to get something out of the deal. I really think that we need access to utility easments. Imagine putting an AP everywhere the cable and phone company aggregates thier fiber/wires etc. Imagine being able to put an AP on or near a stop sign or anywhere you deem necessary to deliver your service. This would greatly help our LOS problems and bandwidth issues. Quoting John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
How could anyone enforce a user fee on ISM bands? There are countless millions of devices in use, and tracking down and enforcing thier use would be an absurd proposition. Taxing equipment that uses it would be the most likely, but even that has issues. I don't think they're intending to tax every bluetooth, lan, or baby monitoring device in the country. That would be a daunting proposition, to be sure. This leaves the notion of 'user fees' to allow a quasi-unlicensed use of open spectrum. All in all, not a terribly bad idea, if it means we can get access to more spectrum AND at the same time, not face huge auction or license fees up front, but instead a pay-as-you-go for spectrum with no interference. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Ok...Here is a quote from the story.. WASHINGTON-President Bush, facing a huge budget deficit, today proposed squeezing more money from the nation's airwaves by supporting legislative changes that would allow the Federal Communications Commission to set user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum. It says user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum Granted the press might have mis-stated the story but it reads pretty clear to me. Part 15 is un-auctioned spectrum. And considering we use the spectrum, who wouuld pay the user fees?? And the heading of the story specifically states unlicensed spectrum. S..I am open to suggestions. PersonallyI am tired of paying money for everything and getting nothing in return. But I'm a team player so lead on -B- John Scrivner wrote: If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan. Scriv -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
First, the rcrnews feed is meaningless. It lacked all detail and clarity, to understand what it meant. Second, It is impairative that existing Unlicensed Spectrum NEVER get taxed, and that users and providers of it, NEVER get taxed. Unlicensed spectrum belongs to the people. Whn I charge a client I don;t charge them for spectrum use, I charge them to cover all my other costs (Roof rental, staff, support, etc). I'm charging for services not spectrum. Third, If Taxed, its important that the tax not only be to providers of AP and the service. The reason is that there are not enough providers of APs that it will have any meaningful impact on dollars raised for the governement, UNLESS we are taxed heavy. And we don;t want that. If a tax on unlicensed were to happen, we'd want the tax to get charged to Radio manufacturers based on number of radios made. The reason is that consumer home devices are what are sold in MASS quantity, and a tax per device sold, would allow the governemnt to get the largest volume of tax, and most profit, at the least impact to a single indiviudal. It would allow the lowest tax per user, because the largest dominant group of users would be included. The idea is that we do not want WISPs to be the one that take all the burden. It will likely put us out of business if we had to, and we would be the ones most hurt if we were targeted. Fourth, I am NOT apposed to creating a per user tax for NEWLY allocated spectrum for our industry. The governement is unlikely to allocate spectrum to us because the billions they can auction it for. If the governement gave up the auctioned revenue, in favor of giving it to us (investing/financing us) it would be appropriate to allow the governemtn to put a plan in place for compensation. A per user tax, is a way that ALL provider could have the right to play in the game, and only pay an amount proportional to the number of subscribers they had paying revenue. However, there is a big problem in taxing per user. Its that spectrum usage does not match customer size, in most cases. If one company decided to use all 6 channels for one customer, their tax payment would be much less than than a large number of users sharing a single channel. What they could do is tax providers/users, based on per Mhz in a spectrum range allocated, and per timeslice transmitted. So instead of charging per user, it could be charged per MB of through put. Use more, pay more. However, that would be IMPOSSIBLE to track, prove, and inforce. Its important to distinguish the fine print in legislation that would allow for taxing unlicensed in general apposed to taxing or charging per user of new spectrum that is allocated. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
There is no evidence that the 5.4Ghz spectrum issue is resolved, but it sure was convenient for them to through it out there as hope, to reduce the repercusions of the proposed TAXes. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come up with the taxing idea. And one needs to wonder who came up with the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum. It surely wasn't George hyimself. -B- Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
I think you and I said the same thing with one exception. Due to difficulty in tracking per user per megahertz I think it would be simpler to just have a per base station fee. The fee could be scaled by the amount (Mhz) of spectrum used in the base station. This would only be for new spectrum and would not be for unlicensed spectrum. This is a carrot that could well justify WISPs getting some usable spectrum with higher power and some spectrum rights. Congress will not likely just give away more spectrum without having some way of creating some revenue stream from it. This does not mean I support taxation. I am trying to find a compromise we can all live with while producing some value for WISPs. Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: First, the rcrnews feed is meaningless. It lacked all detail and clarity, to understand what it meant. Second, It is impairative that existing Unlicensed Spectrum NEVER get taxed, and that users and providers of it, NEVER get taxed. Unlicensed spectrum belongs to the people. Whn I charge a client I don;t charge them for spectrum use, I charge them to cover all my other costs (Roof rental, staff, support, etc). I'm charging for services not spectrum. Third, If Taxed, its important that the tax not only be to providers of AP and the service. The reason is that there are not enough providers of APs that it will have any meaningful impact on dollars raised for the governement, UNLESS we are taxed heavy. And we don;t want that. If a tax on unlicensed were to happen, we'd want the tax to get charged to Radio manufacturers based on number of radios made. The reason is that consumer home devices are what are sold in MASS quantity, and a tax per device sold, would allow the governemnt to get the largest volume of tax, and most profit, at the least impact to a single indiviudal. It would allow the lowest tax per user, because the largest dominant group of users would be included. The idea is that we do not want WISPs to be the one that take all the burden. It will likely put us out of business if we had to, and we would be the ones most hurt if we were targeted. Fourth, I am NOT apposed to creating a per user tax for NEWLY allocated spectrum for our industry. The governement is unlikely to allocate spectrum to us because the billions they can auction it for. If the governement gave up the auctioned revenue, in favor of giving it to us (investing/financing us) it would be appropriate to allow the governemtn to put a plan in place for compensation. A per user tax, is a way that ALL provider could have the right to play in the game, and only pay an amount proportional to the number of subscribers they had paying revenue. However, there is a big problem in taxing per user. Its that spectrum usage does not match customer size, in most cases. If one company decided to use all 6 channels for one customer, their tax payment would be much less than than a large number of users sharing a single channel. What they could do is tax providers/users, based on per Mhz in a spectrum range allocated, and per timeslice transmitted. So instead of charging per user, it could be charged per MB of through put. Use more, pay more. However, that would be IMPOSSIBLE to track, prove, and inforce. Its important to distinguish the fine print in legislation that would allow for taxing unlicensed in general apposed to taxing or charging per user of new spectrum that is allocated. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
I HIGHLY recommmend that the WISP industry pitch support for charging fees or taxes to providers that use TV WHITE SPACE. We need that more than anything, as its the most valuable spectrum left. The chances of us getting it today, are null and slim, from what I see. An offer from the WISP community suggesting ways that revenue could be made by giving it to the public (us) for residual income based on our effect use of it, that would allow us all to share it instead of a few buy it, is well worth it. Just stop to think what harm it would do to our industry if Verizon, bought the TV whitespaces if/when they were auctioned off, or if they were left to the broadcast industry to deploy their own wireless services to compete agaisnt us? Just like the Power company. They realize they may have an asset, worth more to them if they keep it, nto for TV but to compete against us. So yes, john, of course, start spinning. How can we turn it to spectrum allocation. It sounds like a introduction for an opportunity to propose. Lets write a proposal to give them listing the terms we'd except without tons of uproar. The secret thoguh is to make it a change that happens this candentacy, before the next election. Its been mentioned that spectrum allocation is unlikely to happen until after the election, to avoid creating enemies before election time. Its better to just make promises to everyone instead, and then they aren't to blame, when the answer is, sorry the new president changed his mind what he wanted. Any ruling that can be made this year, is a good ruling, if we get something out of it as an industry. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan. Scriv Bob Moldashel wrote: Interesting how the 5 Ghz spectrum gets resolved right after they come up with the taxing idea. And one needs to wonder who came up with the great idea of taxing unlicensed spectrum. It surely wasn't George hyimself. -B- Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
It would grandfather all existing devices. And charge manufacturers for all future production runs. Or they could charge a tax in retail stores similar to sales tax, called broadband equipment tax. Aren't they already taxing broadband equipment, sale tax. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today There is no way they can tax the existing unlicensed frequencies now. How will they regulate all the Linksys routers being sold at Circuit City? And cordless phones that operate in 900mhz, 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz. Travis Microserv Bob Moldashel wrote: Well...They sure couldn't have timed it any better. Now we will see how many people file. 24 Hours ago i would have said this never would have occured. Now.Well...Let me just say I am tired of paying for everything in the land of the free and the home of the brave -B- Blair Davis wrote: Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
The last thing we want to do is have the tax hidden from the public, in the WISPs payables. Consumers won;t understand why we have to raide our prices to cover it. If its a tax that goes on our invoice, we jsutrefer them to their senator to complain. If its a tax on the bill to the custoemr, we can advertsie lower prices, and tax on the tax after the fact liek the ILECs do today. the last thing I want is another cost, that Ican;t bill out to someone else. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rudolph Worrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today This is a good thought to get something out of the deal. I really think that we need access to utility easments. Imagine putting an AP everywhere the cable and phone company aggregates thier fiber/wires etc. Imagine being able to put an AP on or near a stop sign or anywhere you deem necessary to deliver your service. This would greatly help our LOS problems and bandwidth issues. Quoting John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Be aware that WISP's businesses will retain the largest value, if further spectrum is NOT allocated. When their is a shortage, our preferred early entry into the game to more advantageously get away using the existing spectrum, makes our assets more valuable. Better spectrum protection in future spectrum allocations, means new entrants into the industry will have a strategic advantage over existing WISPs that have invested and deployed. I highly recommend that future allocations of similar spectrum are NOT delivered in a way more advantageous than the existing rules of unlicensed spectrum ranges. Allthough, that opinion may hinder growth of the industry, it protects the companies that have built this indutry to what it is today. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today This sounds allot like what Mark K was talking about. WISPA needs to find out what the deal is and (imo) fight any taxing on license free bands. P-15 spectrum built the wisp industry as it is today and people need it so it can build the next wave of wispdom. Taxes will make RD money dry up and any end products that do make it cost more. More/New taxes = more/new book keeping = higher cost of operations = higher price for products. A new spectrum (5.4ghz?) with taxes setup on it from the get go and other features (first rights, limited camping, and higher erip) would be very nice. I would be willing to pay for such but not on current spectrum, its just to clogged up with so much consumer hardware. Jeromie Reeves Mac Dearman wrote: I say whoooa mule! I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we are taxed per user - - - then we will just pass that on to the end user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to find ways to keep it :-) From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4227 John Scrivner wrote: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum. It is not clear how they will do it yet but the process is in motion. That's the bad news, the good news is they reached agreement on the 5.4 GHz spectrum and that should become available once equipment gets certified. Check the RCR news site for the full stories. Oh well, I suspected that it would not last forever the truly free use of the spectrum. http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25545 http://www.rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=25539 Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com Free World Dialup #481416 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
They can't. So it means they will tax every ISP that claims that they use it. They will tax our revenue not the users. And it will mean the for profit providers will take the burden isntead of the hundreds of backyard companies degrading the value of offering broadband. Taxing will incourage offering unlicensed FREE. I do not believe a tax should be exclusive to those that make money on it, thats irrelevent. The tax should be based on how much somebody uses of it, not pays for it. The reason is that the amount someone pays is not a reflection of the spectrum but a reflection of how much value the provider adds. I don;t want to be taxed more because I offer more value. Instead what I propose is that the givernemtn set up afund to give free equipment to end users that request funds, and then they get taxed over the next 20 years to pay back that fund. Instead of universal service fund, it would be uiversal equipment fund. Get rid of upfront equipment costs that slow growth of WISPs, and make the customer pay for it over time. Let hte governement be our VC partner :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today How could anyone enforce a user fee on ISM bands? There are countless millions of devices in use, and tracking down and enforcing thier use would be an absurd proposition. Taxing equipment that uses it would be the most likely, but even that has issues. I don't think they're intending to tax every bluetooth, lan, or baby monitoring device in the country. That would be a daunting proposition, to be sure. This leaves the notion of 'user fees' to allow a quasi-unlicensed use of open spectrum. All in all, not a terribly bad idea, if it means we can get access to more spectrum AND at the same time, not face huge auction or license fees up front, but instead a pay-as-you-go for spectrum with no interference. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Ok...Here is a quote from the story.. WASHINGTON-President Bush, facing a huge budget deficit, today proposed squeezing more money from the nation's airwaves by supporting legislative changes that would allow the Federal Communications Commission to set user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum. It says user fees on un-auctioned radio spectrum Granted the press might have mis-stated the story but it reads pretty clear to me. Part 15 is un-auctioned spectrum. And considering we use the spectrum, who wouuld pay the user fees?? And the heading of the story specifically states unlicensed spectrum. S..I am open to suggestions. PersonallyI am tired of paying money for everything and getting nothing in return. But I'm a team player so lead on -B- John Scrivner wrote: If I read this right it does not specifically mention unlicensed spectrum but does refer to spectrum not already auctioned which could mean whitespace. We probably have a chance to spin this to our advantage unless you guys all would rather just bitch and moan. Scriv -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Why would we want to have future bands hindered by bad policy? It will not be just new entrants who use it. It will more likely be existing WISPs who jump to gain better spectrum to add onto the systems they already have. I say we ask for existing bands which are unlicensed to be left free and unlicensed. New bands should be available with a user fee to allow for a simple way to license the use of the frequencies without having to go to an auction highest bidder system as has happened in the past. Good spectrum policy will inevitably help WISPs and anyone else who has a desire to make use of spectrum and maintain some protections. Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: Be aware that WISP's businesses will retain the largest value, if further spectrum is NOT allocated. When their is a shortage, our preferred early entry into the game to more advantageously get away using the existing spectrum, makes our assets more valuable. Better spectrum protection in future spectrum allocations, means new entrants into the industry will have a strategic advantage over existing WISPs that have invested and deployed. I highly recommend that future allocations of similar spectrum are NOT delivered in a way more advantageous than the existing rules of unlicensed spectrum ranges. Allthough, that opinion may hinder growth of the industry, it protects the companies that have built this indutry to what it is today. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today This sounds allot like what Mark K was talking about. WISPA needs to find out what the deal is and (imo) fight any taxing on license free bands. P-15 spectrum built the wisp industry as it is today and people need it so it can build the next wave of wispdom. Taxes will make RD money dry up and any end products that do make it cost more. More/New taxes = more/new book keeping = higher cost of operations = higher price for products. A new spectrum (5.4ghz?) with taxes setup on it from the get go and other features (first rights, limited camping, and higher erip) would be very nice. I would be willing to pay for such but not on current spectrum, its just to clogged up with so much consumer hardware. Jeromie Reeves Mac Dearman wrote: I say whoooa mule! I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we are taxed per user - - - then we will just pass that on to the end user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to find ways to keep it :-) From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4227 John Scrivner wrote: How about if we propose to the Congress that they allow a per base station license to be paid annually for broadband use that gives first in rights to those who launch broadband in a given geography in the channel registered for each base station? Then everyone would have the ability to have access to spectrum with some rights to prevent interference and have something that investors could be comfortable with investing in. This would eliminate the spectrum class split we have now where some have rights of licensed use and others (like us) cannot play in the game without using spectrum with no spectrum rights (unlicensed). The government could have the revenues they demand which they normally get from auctions which I oppose due to the inability for smaller operators to have a chance to buy in. Just a thought. Scriv Rudy Worrell wrote: Time to organize troops... Nuff said! Who's got lead? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today Now we know why they want the 477 forms. Brian Webster wrote: Well, it does not surprise me that the government has decided to tax the unlicensed spectrum. Today the Bush administration announced a plan to tax Wi-Fi and other unlicensed spectrum
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
The problem is that I do not like plans that require the payment of money in advance of collection of money for service provided. So allthough paying a fee per AP site, may very well be one of the only reasonable ways to successfully develop a solution, I'd prefer there to be a solution that is paid for by all not just me. Its not just WISPs that use unlicensed. So why should it only be Wireless ISPs that pay for the spectrum, without protections? I'm supportive of a per AP licensing FEE, if the spectrum is allocated to WISPs. However, it is not likely to be. It will most likely be allocated to unlicensed in general. Able to be used by SCADA, Pagers, Home users, Corporations, Extended length Home cordless phones, etc. What about PtPs that don;t have a cell site or AP? In order for WISPs to pay, we need a unique advantage justifying why we are paying and others aren't. For example, if we are given higher power levels for outdoor use, that could justify it. I don;t mind footing the bill for what I is given to us, I just don't want to foot the bill for what is given to everyone else. Unlicensed means usable by everyone, for any purpose. I'm not apposed to partial license fees, sorta like 3650M, but with small fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today I think you and I said the same thing with one exception. Due to difficulty in tracking per user per megahertz I think it would be simpler to just have a per base station fee. The fee could be scaled by the amount (Mhz) of spectrum used in the base station. This would only be for new spectrum and would not be for unlicensed spectrum. This is a carrot that could well justify WISPs getting some usable spectrum with higher power and some spectrum rights. Congress will not likely just give away more spectrum without having some way of creating some revenue stream from it. This does not mean I support taxation. I am trying to find a compromise we can all live with while producing some value for WISPs. Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: First, the rcrnews feed is meaningless. It lacked all detail and clarity, to understand what it meant. Second, It is impairative that existing Unlicensed Spectrum NEVER get taxed, and that users and providers of it, NEVER get taxed. Unlicensed spectrum belongs to the people. Whn I charge a client I don;t charge them for spectrum use, I charge them to cover all my other costs (Roof rental, staff, support, etc). I'm charging for services not spectrum. Third, If Taxed, its important that the tax not only be to providers of AP and the service. The reason is that there are not enough providers of APs that it will have any meaningful impact on dollars raised for the governement, UNLESS we are taxed heavy. And we don;t want that. If a tax on unlicensed were to happen, we'd want the tax to get charged to Radio manufacturers based on number of radios made. The reason is that consumer home devices are what are sold in MASS quantity, and a tax per device sold, would allow the governemnt to get the largest volume of tax, and most profit, at the least impact to a single indiviudal. It would allow the lowest tax per user, because the largest dominant group of users would be included. The idea is that we do not want WISPs to be the one that take all the burden. It will likely put us out of business if we had to, and we would be the ones most hurt if we were targeted. Fourth, I am NOT apposed to creating a per user tax for NEWLY allocated spectrum for our industry. The governement is unlikely to allocate spectrum to us because the billions they can auction it for. If the governement gave up the auctioned revenue, in favor of giving it to us (investing/financing us) it would be appropriate to allow the governemtn to put a plan in place for compensation. A per user tax, is a way that ALL provider could have the right to play in the game, and only pay an amount proportional to the number of subscribers they had paying revenue. However, there is a big problem in taxing per user. Its that spectrum usage does not match customer size, in most cases. If one company decided to use all 6 channels for one customer, their tax payment would be much less than than a large number of users sharing a single channel. What they could do is tax providers/users, based on per Mhz in a spectrum range allocated, and per timeslice transmitted. So instead of charging per user, it could be charged per MB of through put. Use more, pay more. However, that would be IMPOSSIBLE to track, prove, and inforce. Its important to distinguish the fine print in legislation that would allow for taxing unlicensed in general apposed to taxing or charging per user of new spectrum that is allocated
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
mac, How about we have a march in DC up the steps to the FCC's offices all the while surfing the net and sending I proposed such a thing around the time of ISPCON in DC (Baltimore) this year. (Do they trade show, and MArch the same week). Although the show would have been supportive, the consensus was that no one would show up to march. Its hard to get WISPs off their butt to pay dues, let alone buy plane tickets to attend a march. The impact that it would make to have a few thousand ISPs band togeather and march would be amazing. I know CWIA was considering to plan a small lobby effort for that week. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today I have complete confidence in our leadership thus far and remember that we are an infant organization. I think with the election tomorrow and continued support from those who are going into office we are well on our way to having a jam up jelly good organization. I know the heart of every one of the men who have been instrumental in putting this organization together from day one. I know that they want an industry owned, member driven power house that will have a say in Washington as well as in individual States. The men we will see in office Wednesday are the ones who have been the movers and shakers in this industry for years and have my utmost allegiance and respect. I cant say that I have agreed with everything, but then I dont agree with everything that goes on under my own roof either :-) I think what we need more than anything to accomplish what we need is a very large mouth! That mouth can only be trumpeted by a mass of individuals coming together under one umbrella - - WISPA and jointly having WISPA speak for us as a whole. I look at what the Gay rights activists have accomplished with their lobbying (not that I agree there either) although the gay population is really not that large. Its just well funded, out spoken, very organized, very active and very seen across the country. IMHO we to will have to use some of their tactics, be very loud and obnoxious to the point of being pushy and refuse to NOT be heard and seen. I think WISPA is the very thing for this industry as it is a one of a kind. Its made up of folks like you and me, and Larsen and Scriv and Harnish and so on - - just every day good ole boys with an agenda. I think that when we hold hands ( I am not gay) and stand up we will have to be heard. I dont think that we can be ignored if we go about this the right way. Do you remember the million man march in DC? There really wasnt half that many people, but it was the attention they stirred up that makes it so memorable. That was in 1995!!! How about we have a march in DC up the steps to the FCC's offices all the while surfing the net and sending emails to reporters back in our home states, live web cameras rolling while Scrivner gives us a whooda thunk it speech. I think there are a lot of things we can do once this election is over and done. The election is the first step toward accomplishing great things in this industry. The next real step is membership!! WHO AINT PAID THEM DUES??? Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600 318.728.9600 318.303.4227 Rudolph Worrell wrote: Mac, I am with you. We need to be very aware but also plan and propose so that we are not spoken for in an ill way. One thing that would really help here and on the paid side of things is to have clear goals, leadership, and direction. Quoting Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I say whoooa mule! I think before we jump the gun we ought to see what lies ahead of us. If they plan on taxing the free spectrum it will have to be done at the manufacturers level. There is no way to tax us per device and if we are taxed per user - - - then we will just pass that on to the end user. Ultimately all taxes will have to be passed down to the end user - it always has been - - -it always will be. I dont mind paying the taxes, its all that damn collecting and book keeping I hate. It seems that Uncle Sams money always get intermingled with mine and then I try to find ways to keep it :-) From what I have read earlier today its not a done deal ad its just talk at this time. We do need to keep our ears to the ground and our eyes open though and if we can lead the horse rather than eat dust from the Cavalry ahead of us would be a choice place to be. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us (VoIP Sales) www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) 318.728.8600
Re: [WISPA] Good news and bad news today
Can you explain how it is not available? Yes the insurance is killer. Jeromie Reeves Bob Moldashel wrote: Jeromie Reeves wrote: Right of Way access is available to anyone right now. Ask your local city/county for the ROW contracts that they have with the gas, cable, telco, electric, and others. Jeromie Reeves Unfortunately...It is not available in alot of places here in NY and CT. And where it isthe insurance provisions are a real killer. -B- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
