Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-18 Thread A. Huppenthal

:-)

Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, add a blindfold, take a swig of whiskey to 
keep warm, go alone, leave your cell phone and radio behind, and don't 
check the guywires, see how far you can sway the tower at the top, and 
bring a parachute.. :-) oh yea.. :-)


Unlike my alter ego in the mock note I wrote, I'm always super careful 
on climbing. It requires extensive planning, teamwork, double safety 
procedures, vigilence about weather. We were on Sunlight Peak in June 
and a freak storm hit - within 15 minutes of getting off the tower - ice 
pellets, rain, lightning. We were a few hundred yards from the last 
tower on the Peak -  just 10 minutes before all hell broke loose. In the 
Rockies, storms can appear without much warning - so you depend on your 
ground personnel to keep an eye out. We use weather radar on notebook 
pc's tied into the net, to supplement pre-planning reviews.


Everything makes a difference, from hair cut, to clothes, boots, to 
safety equipment, glasses to organizational items. I use a small 
backpack with clips, organized so it can be attached nearby and serve as 
a small tool bag, hardware spare parts kit, walkie talkie holder, all at 
about 5 lbs. I do take duplicate tools, all the standard bolt/nut sizes 
we have on the tower (3 wrenches) and spares, along with 2 small 
adjustable wrenches.


Just having a climbing bag outfitted properly is crucial, as far as I'm 
concerned. To someone who hasn't been up there it may seem trivial. I 
want every second to count, every movement to be preconsidered, 
everything I need in its proper place, and within easy reach. Years ago, 
I realized having to make a second trip because someone pulled vinyl 
tape out of the kit or splicing tape, or a 5/16ths speed wrench doesn't 
cut it.


While I prep each trip, I'm thinking we'll have a 'hands-off' pack with 
duplicate equipment for the climb. Using a hauling rope to bring up a 
new bag with missing tools is dangerous, unpleasent, and unnessary.


Take a course, work with experienced people, don't hold out for cheaper 
gear, clip in often,  rest, relax, focus, tell your pals to shut up 
while you are climbing, clip in, rest before you go, as some one said - 
bring water, dehydration is real at altitude - if you have a feeling 
about not climbing *don't*, trust your skeptical instinct. If you don't 
have the experience, don't climb. If you want to practice, go up 4 feet 
off the ground and do everything you plan on doing 100 feet up. You fall 
from 4 feet up, you are going to hurt, but you'll like be alive. Get to 
know all your gear within a few feet of the ground - practice using your 
backup ropes, gear, repell from a low height. Always have a backup.


And finally, don't listen to me. I'm not an instructor, and I'm not 
getting paid to write this. I do care about any of you that are 
climbing. It is dangerous - but fun, and exhilerating - if done 
properly. :-) Take the course, be careful. Stay alive.



George wrote:


:)
Alex
You forgot to mention the blindfold.
Too funny.
:)

Glad  wisps have a cents of humor

George


A. Huppenthal wrote:

First thing I do is get some leather soled, slip on shoes. I walk 
through the mud and hop on the tower. I take an extra jacket that I 
tie off to my waist and,  if my legs get tired, re-tie it to the 
tower leg and around me. Normally, the backpack I have on is filled 
with tools - I bring everything, power drill, bits, wratchet set - 
its heavy and bulky, but better than having to return to the ground. 
I usally wear just one glove, that way if the ice on the tower is  
bothering my bare hand I can just hold on with the gloved hand. I 
find it challanging when the wind is blowing just before an 
electrical storm to get to the highest part of the tower before I 
hear the thunder. I'll count down 1.2.3.4.5 after the flash, and if I 
can get to 3, I know I'm safe.


Sometimes my loose jacket will snag on an antenna on the way up and 
hold me up for a few seconds but I can swing around holding on with 
one hand. I never climb with a rope. If I do drag a rope up with me, 
I make sure its a nylon one - light and with no give. I'll weave it 
through the tower as I go up, and keep the end of it wrapped up on 
one hand - usually the bare one.


Once I'm up above 100 feet, I'll lock an arm around the tower and put 
much shoe into a cross member to get relaxed. Sometimes the blood 
cuts off in my arm and I can't feel anything in that arm, but I know 
I'm safe. Often when I'm pulling up a 150 lbs of extra stuff on a '25 
tower, it tends to band into other antennas and get stuck, but if you 
pull really hard, you can normally get it loose.


And if you do any of this stuff, don't call yourself a professional, 
or complain if you are dead in a day of climbing.








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RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-17 Thread G.Villarini
Ohhh ok, jeje!

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave
mylife)

Brian is 21.
Kurt is in high school.

Guess I mushed them together :)

George


G.Villarini wrote:
 21 and high school? George, you flunked kindergarten 3 times ? :-)
 
 Gino A. Villarini, 
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.aeronetpr.com
 787.767.7466
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of George
 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:22 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance to save
 mylife)
 
 Brian :)
 Your only 21 years old, CONGRATS!
 
 When I read about guys like you and Kurt , who is still in high school 
 and running a wisp, it makes me happy and proud of you guys that are 
 starting life embracing a business and making a go at it.
 
 So keep up the hard work, someday you'll look back on this era of your 
 life and understand why your a success at what ever you will be doing
then.
 
 I strongly believe in young people  getting involved and participating 
 in the business world.
 
 It's a sign of independence and ingenuity, which is what drives the 
 American way.
 
 Congrats again!
 
 George
 
 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
 
Sure is nice to ask for advice and be insulted.  If you know so much 
about how I climb, tell me what I have done wrong.  Or start asking me 
trick questions that I'll answer wrong.  Than you may insult me.


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Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-17 Thread Tom DeReggi

Brain,


I still believe that common sense if better than an educated idiot.


I fully agree with you.  However, what you fail to realise is that if you 
consider yourself a common sense person, and you get training, you will be a 
trained common sense person.  Which is better than a common sense person 
alone. You will also fine that most trainers are not idiots.  No matter how 
much training someone is given, if they are an idiot they have no business 
climbing either.


There is a reason, that people like Bob are so attimate about their advise. 
They know what you don't know.


I also consider my self a common sense person, but I just made a perfect 
example of how a common sense person can make a mistake, by not taking the 
time to think of everything, which often happens when someone does not have 
a lot of expereinece to reinforce memory.   IF you do that, you know at 
minimum, you won't fall to your death.  In reality that should have read, 
you MAY not fall to your death..  I forgot to ask what type of tower you 
were climbing before advising, and forgot to consider a simple basic concept 
that Bob mentioned, tie-off doesn't help if you are tied to something that 
can't withstand the force of a fall.


One of the reasons, Tower Climbing advice threads are not popular is that it 
portays the messages that Climbing can be a casual do it your self thing, 
jsut like installing a WIFI AP.  But the last I heard, no one has ever been 
killed by a WIFI AP.  Tower Climbing is serious business, and shouldn't be 
done lightly.


I'm was in the same position as you are, I couldn't justify paying $2000 
everytime that I needed an antenna adjusted, I had to learn more about it, 
so I could climb as an option when needed.  But there is significant risk in 
doing that.  I got the same backlash that you did on this list. The 
difference is that I took their advice, and learned more about it, before 
taking the risk.  At minimum, you should find an experienced person to go 
with you for the first climb, and its not likely that that will be free.


Good luck.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc

IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - 
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave 
mylife)




IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your death.

I consider myself very observant.  I will also always look for any piece 
of the tower that could be compromised.  I understand that just because it 
still stands does not mean it is safe.  I still believe that common sense 
if better than an educated idiot.



Tom DeReggi wrote:


Brian,

I fully agree with George.  Only issue is that when you start young, you 
usually don't know what you don't know, and become over confident. So be 
cautious about that.  I see it way to often.  The advantage of people 
that start out working for someone else in a specific trade, is they 
learn by seeing, and don't have to figure it out blind.  For example in 
my case, I took a path of self employment instead of going to college.  I 
was making good money so I didn't think I needed the formal training.  It 
took 10 years into my business for me to realize what I didn't know, and 
how if I had that knowledge I may have been more successful in my 
ventures.  I am now working hard to correct those weaknesses, but I wish 
I did it 10 years ago.  My point is not to pass any judgement on your 
expertise, just advising that you recognize your weaknesses, so that you 
are in the position to address them, apposed to overlook them.  As far as 
tower climbing, I hired someone to do my first couple installs. And I 
made sure that I was there every single moment to watch and learn. It was 
invaluable to me, before climbing myself.


The reality is, its near the same cost to take a course as it is to pay 
someone for a day to install your gear.  So thats one of the reasons the 
advise is to take a course, by many.  Its sorta like sky diving, its 
generally a good idea to have someone experienced around the first time. 
If you make a mistake, the penalty can be severe.


But if you member two simple rules, you'll probably be OK. Always have 
atleast one other person around, so if you get in trouble they can call 
for help.  Second, use a Dual Tie-off shock zorber lanyard. One of the 
two clamps should be fastened to the tower at all times. When you go to 
move one, the other always stays fastened. Then once the first one is 
fastened again, you move the second one.  And of cource the other end 
gets attached to the BACK D-Ring.  IF you do that, you know at minimum, 
you won't fall to your death.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc

IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - From: George [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:21 AM

RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-17 Thread JohnnyO
Anytime ANYONE climbs for us - They have a double lanyard (shock cord)
for going up the tower - they also have chain hooks for positioning and
working on the tower - We also have cable grab safety systems on most of
our towers currently and will be completely covered with the grab
systems on all towers by mid part of next year.

When they get into position to work - they are hooked off into 3
places. I do not ASK them to do this - They either do it - or they
go home - Period. 

While they are climbing they are hooked to the tower at ALL times with 2
devices 1. cable grab - 2. lanyard - Even with that much precaution -
I've had one of our guys slip and bust his chin wide open and was seeing
stars for 20minutes - I bet he didn't even fall 8inches - 13 stiches and
a fractured jaw ! 

We've had to do climbs in the dark on occasion - This may not be the
safest - but we're also invested into some great lighting systems to
brighten things up. There are many times that you SHOULDN'T climb - wet
tower / ice on towers / high winds / rain / lightning / etc. I know a
lot of us always take chances at different times - but remember - there
is nothing in the world worth more then the safety of the person up on
the tower. NEVER !

My brother went up a tower in the rain just the other day - We had a
network segement out that had 90 customers on it - We waited for 36
hours for the rain to break and it never did. That 10 minute climb to
the top took him 45minutes because of his carefullness and respect for
danger / accidents... We were complaining ? HECK NO - We were in the
truck watching his butt get soaked ! 

Be Safe - Or Die - Period - If you don't know what you're doing - DON'T
DO IT 

JohnnyO

Now here is a great instance of stupidity that turned out OK - Both
myself and my brother were at 70ft on a Rohn25 tower taking it down
I decided - what the hell - Let's do 1 section plus the 7ft top section
at the same time - To save time and b/c I was in a rush Well - we
jacked the tower apart - swung it to the side - the gin pole started to
bend and bam ! When the Tower sections that fell 70ft stopped 20ft from
the ground - it bent the remaining part of the tower to almost a 45deg
angle. And left both of us dangling singing sweet jesus (in not so nice
of terms) No big deal - we were on top of a big fluffy cedar tree ! Now
- we were LUCKY we both didn't die - no excuses - was our own stupidity
and our fault for being idiots.

When you fall - you never fall TOWARDS the tower - You always fall AWAY
from the tower !  No amount of reaction by yourself is going to save
your butt - Your mind / nerves / muscles are not quickc enough - Before
you know it - you're hitting the ground 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 12:36 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave
mylife)


IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your death.

I consider myself very observant.  I will also always look for any piece

of the tower that could be compromised.  I understand that just because 
it still stands does not mean it is safe.  I still believe that common 
sense if better than an educated idiot.


Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Brian,

 I fully agree with George.  Only issue is that when you start young,
 you usually don't know what you don't know, and become over confident.

 So be cautious about that.  I see it way to often.  The advantage of 
 people that start out working for someone else in a specific trade, is

 they learn by seeing, and don't have to figure it out blind.  For 
 example in my case, I took a path of self employment instead of going 
 to college.  I was making good money so I didn't think I needed the 
 formal training.  It took 10 years into my business for me to realize 
 what I didn't know, and how if I had that knowledge I may have been 
 more successful in my ventures.  I am now working hard to correct 
 those weaknesses, but I wish I did it 10 years ago.  My point is not 
 to pass any judgement on your expertise, just advising that you 
 recognize your weaknesses, so that you are in the position to address 
 them, apposed to overlook them.  As far as tower climbing, I hired 
 someone to do my first couple installs. And I made sure that I was 
 there every single moment to watch and learn. It was invaluable to me,

 before climbing myself.

 The reality is, its near the same cost to take a course as it is to
 pay someone for a day to install your gear.  So thats one of the 
 reasons the advise is to take a course, by many.  Its sorta like sky 
 diving, its generally a good idea to have someone experienced around 
 the first time.  If you make a mistake, the penalty can be severe.

 But if you member two simple rules, you'll probably be OK. Always have
 atleast one other person around, so if you get in trouble they can 
 call for help.  Second

Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-17 Thread Scott Reed




Some of this gets down to a very basic problem.  If you can't afford to get the proper training, what else can you not afford?  Customers do not care what you can or can not afford.  The care about the service you provide. 

I would suggest going back to your business plan and reviewing the whole thing.  How much money do you have?  What do you need to get started?  What would be nice to get started?  I left out the cost of someone to climb my leased tower and it is killing the business plan.  I don't have much choice, even if I climbed, I could not afford the insurance the owner requires any more than I can afford the climber.  My point is, I can't afford the climber, but I can't afford not to hire him.  Your customer service will be terrible if you fall.  Even 20 feet and only in the hospital for a week could ruin a startup.

I do not climb, never will.  Personal thing.  So  I am not offering advice for climbing.  It is a red flag to me when someone is starting up and says I can not afford ...  I don't care if it is training, carrier grade equipment, or a screwdriver.  That statement says to me that the business plan is not complete.

Scott Reed 


Owner 


NewWays 


Wireless Networking 


Network Design, Installation and Administration 


www.nwwnet.net

-- Original Message 
---

From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 


Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:08:25 -0400 


Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave   
  mylife) 



 Brain, 
 
 

 I still believe that common sense if better than an educated idiot. 

 
 

I fully agree with you.  However, what you fail to realise is that if you  

 

consider yourself a common sense person, and you get training, you will be a  

 

trained common sense person.  Which is better than a common sense person  

 

alone. You will also fine that most trainers are not idiots.  No matter how 
 
 

much training someone is given, if they are an idiot they have no business  

 

climbing either. 
 
 

There is a reason, that people like Bob are so attimate about their advise.  

 

They know what you don't know. 
 
 

I also consider my self a common sense person, but I just made a perfect  

 

example of how a common sense person can make a mistake, by not taking the  

 

time to think of everything, which often happens when someone does not have  

 

a lot of expereinece to reinforce memory.   IF you do that, you know 
at  
 

minimum, you won't fall to your death.  In reality that should have 
read,  
 

you MAY not fall to your death..  I forgot to ask what type of 
tower you  
 

were climbing before advising, and forgot to consider a simple basic concept  

 

that Bob mentioned, tie-off doesn't help if you are tied to something that  

 

can't withstand the force of a fall. 
 
 

One of the reasons, Tower Climbing advice threads are not popular is that it  

 

portays the messages that Climbing can be a casual do it your self thing,  

 

jsut like installing a WIFI AP.  But the last I heard, no one has ever been 
 
 

killed by a WIFI AP.  Tower Climbing is serious business, and shouldn't be  

 

done lightly. 
 
 

I'm was in the same position as you are, I couldn't justify paying $2000  

 

everytime that I needed an antenna adjusted, I had to learn more about it,  

 

so I could climb as an option when needed.  But there is significant risk 
in  
 

doing that.  I got the same backlash that you did on this list. The  

 

difference is that I took their advice, and learned more about it, before  

 

taking the risk.  At minimum, you should find an experienced person to go  

 

with you for the first climb, and its not likely that that will be free. 

 
 

Good luck. 
 
 

Tom DeReggi 
 

RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc 
 
 

IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband 
 
 

- Original Message -  
 

From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
 

Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:35 PM 
 

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave  

 

mylife) 
 
 

 IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your 
death. 
 

 
 

 I consider myself very observant.  I will also always look for any 
piece  
 

 of the tower that could be compromised.  I understand that just 
because it  
 

 still stands does not mean it is safe.  I still believe that common 
sense  
 

 if better than an educated idiot. 
 

 
 

 
 

 Tom DeReggi wrote: 
 

 
 

 Brian, 
 

 
 

 I fully agree with George.  Only issue is that when you start 
young, you  
 

 usually don't know what you don't know, and become over confident. So 
be  
 

 cautious about that.  I see it way to often.  The advantage 
of people  
 

 that start out working for someone else in a specific trade, is they  

 

 learn by seeing, and don't have to figure it out blind.  For 
example in  
 

 my case, I took a path of self employment instead

RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-17 Thread JohnnyO
Title: Message



Scott 
- I really hate to blow the whistle on your post to Brian - but - I myself like 
many many dozens of others on the list - want to know - What is a Business Plan 
! LOL

JohnnyO

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  Brian RohrbacherSent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:41 
  PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and 
  positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)Let me say 
  it this way. I don't want to pay for it.Scott Reed wrote: 
  
Some 
of this gets down to a very basic problem. If you can't afford to get 
the proper training, what else can you not afford? Customers do not 
care what you can or can not afford. The care about the service you 
provide. I would suggest going back to your business plan and 
reviewing the whole thing. How much money do you have? What do 
you need to get started? What would be nice to get started? I 
left out the cost of someone to climb my leased tower and it is killing the 
business plan. I don't have much choice, even if I climbed, I could 
not afford the insurance the owner requires any more than I can afford the 
climber. My point is, I can't afford the climber, but I can't afford 
not to hire him. Your customer service will be terrible if you 
fall. Even 20 feet and only in the hospital for a week could ruin a 
startup. I do not climb, never will. Personal thing. 
So I am not offering advice for climbing. It is a red flag to me 
when someone is starting up and says "I can not afford ..." I don't 
care if it is training, carrier grade equipment, or a screwdriver. 
That statement says to me that the business plan is not complete. 
Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network 
Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message 
--- From: "Tom DeReggi" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: 
Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:08:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and 
positioning straps (last chance tosave  mylife) 
 Brain,I still believe that common sense 
if better than an educated idiot.   I fully agree with you. 
However, what you fail to realise is that if you  consider 
yourself a common sense person, and you get training, you will be a  
trained common sense person. Which is better than a common sense 
person  alone. You will also fine that most trainers are not idiots. 
No matter how  much training someone is given, if they are an 
idiot they have no business  climbing either.   
There is a reason, that people like Bob are so attimate about their advise. 
 They know what you don't know.   I also consider my 
self a common sense person, but I just made a perfect  example of 
how a common sense person can make a mistake, by not taking the  
time to think of everything, which often happens when someone does not have 
 a lot of expereinece to reinforce memory.  "IF you do that, 
you know at  minimum, you won't fall to your death." In 
reality that should have read,  "you MAY not fall to your death.". 
I forgot to ask what type of tower you  were climbing before 
advising, and forgot to consider a simple basic concept  that Bob 
mentioned, tie-off doesn't help if you are tied to something that  
can't withstand the force of a fall.   One of the reasons, 
Tower Climbing advice threads are not popular is that it  portays 
the messages that Climbing can be a casual do it your self thing,  
jsut like installing a WIFI AP. But the last I heard, no one has ever 
been  killed by a WIFI AP. Tower Climbing is serious business, 
and shouldn't be  done lightly.   I'm was in the 
same position as you are, I couldn't justify paying $2000  everytime 
that I needed an antenna adjusted, I had to learn more about it,  so 
I could climb as an option when needed. But there is significant risk 
in  doing that. I got the same backlash that you did on this 
list. The  difference is that I took their advice, and learned more 
about it, before  taking the risk. At minimum, you should find 
an experienced person to go  with you for the first climb, and its 
not likely that that will be free.   Good luck.  
 Tom DeReggi  RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc   
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband   - Original Message 
-  From: "Brian Rohrbacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org  
    Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:35 PM  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 
Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave  mylife)  
  "IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your 
death." I consider myself very observant. 
I will also always look for any piece   of the towe

RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-17 Thread Scott Reed




Well, Johnny,
A business plan is a package of paper that one puts together in the spare time they have before they start to implement said plan and find out they had no clue what they were doing, and now that they are doing something else, they no less about what they are doing.  :)
I have not read mine in 8 months.  Wonder what I said I would be doing this week.

Scott Reed 


Owner 


NewWays 


Wireless Networking 


Network Design, Installation and Administration 


www.nwwnet.net

-- Original Message 
---

From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org 


Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:43:50 -0500 


Subject: RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave   
  mylife) 



 Scott 

- I really hate to blow the whistle on your post to Brian - but - I myself like 

many many dozens of others on the list - want to know - What is a Business Plan 

! 
LOL

  

 JohnnyO

  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: 

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 

  Brian Rohrbacher
 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:41 

  PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 
Lanyard and 

  positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
 
 Let me 
say 

  it this way.  I don't want to pay for it.
 
 Scott Reed 
wrote: 

  
Some 

of this gets down to a very basic problem.  If you can't afford to get 

the proper training, what else can you not afford?  Customers do not 

care what you can or can not afford.  The care about the service you 

provide. 
 
 I would suggest going back to your business plan 
and 

reviewing the whole thing.  How much money do you have?  What do 

you need to get started?  What would be nice to get started?  I 

left out the cost of someone to climb my leased tower and it is killing the 

business plan.  I don't have much choice, even if I climbed, I could 

not afford the insurance the owner requires any more than I can afford the 

climber.  My point is, I can't afford the climber, but I can't afford 

not to hire him.  Your customer service will be terrible if you 

fall.  Even 20 feet and only in the hospital for a week could ruin a 

startup. 
 
 I do not climb, never will.  Personal thing. 
 
So  I am not offering advice for climbing.  It is a red flag to me 

when someone is starting up and says I can not afford ...  I don't 

care if it is training, carrier grade equipment, or a screwdriver.  

That statement says to me that the business plan is not complete. 


 
 Scott Reed 
 Owner 
 NewWays 
 
Wireless Networking 
 Network 

Design, Installation and Administration 
 www.nwwnet.net 
 
 -- Original 
Message 

--- 
 From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org 
 
Sent: 

Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:08:25 -0400 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and 

positioning straps (last chance tosave      mylife) 


 
  Brain, 
  
   I still 
believe that common sense 

if better than an educated idiot. 
  
  I fully agree 
with you. 

 However, what you fail to realise is that if you 
  
consider 

yourself a common sense person, and you get training, you will be a 
 
 

trained common sense person.  Which is better than a common sense 

person 
  alone. You will also fine that most trainers are not 
idiots. 

 No matter how 
  much training someone is given, if they 
are an 

idiot they have no business 
  climbing either. 
  

  

There is a reason, that people like Bob are so attimate about their advise. 


  They know what you don't know. 
  
  I 
also consider my 

self a common sense person, but I just made a perfect 
  example 
of 

how a common sense person can make a mistake, by not taking the 
 
 

time to think of everything, which often happens when someone does not have 


  a lot of expereinece to reinforce memory.   IF you do 
that, 

you know at 
  minimum, you won't fall to your death.  In 

reality that should have read, 
  you MAY not fall to your 
death.. 

 I forgot to ask what type of tower you 
  were climbing 
before 

advising, and forgot to consider a simple basic concept 
  that 
Bob 

mentioned, tie-off doesn't help if you are tied to something that 
 
 

can't withstand the force of a fall. 
  
  One of the 
reasons, 

Tower Climbing advice threads are not popular is that it 
  
portays 

the messages that Climbing can be a casual do it your self thing, 
 
 

jsut like installing a WIFI AP.  But the last I heard, no one has ever 

been 
  killed by a WIFI AP.  Tower Climbing is serious 
business, 

and shouldn't be 
  done lightly. 
  
  I'm 
was in the 

same position as you are, I couldn't justify paying $2000 
  
everytime 

that I needed an antenna adjusted, I had to learn more about it, 
 
 so 

I could climb as an option when needed

Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-17 Thread Brian Rohrbacher




All I know is I was suppose to sell out by now an own my own island
somewhere. :)

Just kidding, I understood from the get go this is no get rich quick
scheme.

Scott Reed wrote:

  
  
  Well, Johnny,
  
A business plan is a package of paper that one puts together in the
spare time they have before they start to implement said plan and find
out they had no clue what they were doing, and now that they are doing
something else, they no less about what they are doing. :)
  
I have not read mine in 8 months. Wonder what I said I would be doing
this week.
  
  
Scott Reed 
Owner 
NewWays 
Wireless Networking 
Network Design, Installation and Administration 
  www.nwwnet.net
  
  
  -- Original Message ---
  
From: "JohnnyO" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:43:50 -0500 
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave

mylife) 
  
 Scott - I really hate to blow the whistle on
your post to Brian - but - I myself like many many dozens of others on
the list - want to know - What is a Business Plan ! LOL
  
 
  
 JohnnyO
   
 
 -Original Message-

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian
Rohrbacher

 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:41 PM

 To: WISPA General List

 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last
chance tosave mylife)

 
 Let me say it this way. I don't want to pay for it.

 
 Scott Reed wrote:

  Some of this gets down to a very basic problem.
If you can't afford to get the proper training, what else can you not
afford? Customers do not care what you can or can not afford. The
care about the service you provide. 
 
 I would suggest going back to your business plan and reviewing the
whole thing. How much money do you have? What do you need to get
started? What would be nice to get started? I left out the cost of
someone to climb my leased tower and it is killing the business plan.
I don't have much choice, even if I climbed, I could not afford the
insurance the owner requires any more than I can afford the climber.
My point is, I can't afford the climber, but I can't afford not to hire
him. Your customer service will be terrible if you fall. Even 20 feet
and only in the hospital for a week could ruin a startup. 
 
 I do not climb, never will. Personal thing. So I am not
offering advice for climbing. It is a red flag to me when someone is
starting up and says "I can not afford ..." I don't care if it is
training, carrier grade equipment, or a screwdriver. That statement
says to me that the business plan is not complete. 
 
 Scott Reed 
 Owner 
 NewWays 
 Wireless Networking 
 Network Design, Installation and Administration 
 www.nwwnet.net
  
 
 -- Original Message --- 
 From: "Tom DeReggi" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org 
 Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:08:25 -0400 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance
tosave  mylife) 
 
  Brain, 
  
   I still believe that common sense if better than an
educated idiot. 
  
  I fully agree with you. However, what you fail to realise is
that if you 
  consider yourself a common sense person, and you get
training, you will be a 
  trained common sense person. Which is better than a common
sense person 
  alone. You will also fine that most trainers are not idiots.
No matter how 
  much training someone is given, if they are an idiot they
have no business 
  climbing either. 
  
  There is a reason, that people like Bob are so attimate about
their advise. 
  They know what you don't know. 
  
  I also consider my self a common sense person, but I just
made a perfect 
  example of how a common sense person can make a mistake, by
not taking the 
  time to think of everything, which often happens when someone
does not have 
  a lot of expereinece to reinforce memory.  "IF you do that,
you know at 
  minimum, you won't fall to your death." In reality that
should have read, 
  "you MAY not fall to your death.". I forgot to ask what type
of tower you 
  were climbing before advising, and forgot to consider a
simple basic concept 
  that Bob mentioned, tie-off doesn't help if you are tied to
something that 
  can't withstand the force of a fall. 
  
  One of the reasons, Tower Climbing advice threads are not
popular is that it 
  portays the messages that Climbing can be a casual do it your
self thing, 
  jsut like installing a WIFI AP. But the last I heard, no one
has ever been 
  killed by a WIFI AP. Tower Climbing is serious business, and
shouldn't be 
  done lightly. 
  
  I'm was in the same position as you are, I couldn't justify
paying $2000 
  everytime that I needed an antenna adjusted, I had to learn
more about it, 
  so I could climb as an option when needed. But there is
significant risk in 
  doing that. I got the same backlash th

Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)

2005-08-17 Thread A. Huppenthal
First thing I do is get some leather soled, slip on shoes. I walk 
through the mud and hop on the tower. I take an extra jacket that I tie 
off to my waist and,  if my legs get tired, re-tie it to the tower leg 
and around me. Normally, the backpack I have on is filled with tools - I 
bring everything, power drill, bits, wratchet set - its heavy and bulky, 
but better than having to return to the ground. I usally wear just one 
glove, that way if the ice on the tower is  bothering my bare hand I can 
just hold on with the gloved hand. I find it challanging when the wind 
is blowing just before an electrical storm to get to the highest part of 
the tower before I hear the thunder. I'll count down 1.2.3.4.5 after the 
flash, and if I can get to 3, I know I'm safe.


Sometimes my loose jacket will snag on an antenna on the way up and 
hold me up for a few seconds but I can swing around holding on with one 
hand. I never climb with a rope. If I do drag a rope up with me, I make 
sure its a nylon one - light and with no give. I'll weave it through the 
tower as I go up, and keep the end of it wrapped up on one hand - 
usually the bare one.


Once I'm up above 100 feet, I'll lock an arm around the tower and put 
much shoe into a cross member to get relaxed. Sometimes the blood cuts 
off in my arm and I can't feel anything in that arm, but I know I'm 
safe. Often when I'm pulling up a 150 lbs of extra stuff on a '25 tower, 
it tends to band into other antennas and get stuck, but if you pull 
really hard, you can normally get it loose.


And if you do any of this stuff, don't call yourself a professional, or 
complain if you are dead in a day of climbing.



Mac Dearman wrote:


I meant 3 people on this list!!!


Mac






Mac Dearman wrote:



 I would be willing to bet that their aint more than 3 people who 
have actually attended and completed a climbing school. I have been 
climbing for years and have never been to an actual school that I had 
to pay for. I have yet to fall, bust a chin or a nut on a tower. I 
may fall in the morning, but it won't be because I wasnt tied off - - 
- I am worth more dead than alive in ca$h  - - - so someone hire a 
private detective to check my wifes  knife along with my lanyard :-)


  Good common sense is worth more than anything I can think of. I 
have had some private tutoring by seasoned pro's that has been a 
great help. I would attend and pay for professional training even 
today if there was such a thing anywhere in the South.


My best advice is to get training, but if you cant - - take your time 
as you climb, be sure you are 100% locked off and no drinking alcohol 
or smoking pot...etc before climbing and ALWAYS wear sunglasses, 
gloves and take water!!! NEVER CLIMB ALONE - always have someone on 
the ground watching for you and paying attention - - not sleeping!  
If you get scared, come down easy and try again another day. No war 
was ever won in a single day!!!







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