Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Blair, I agree, our environments are different, each allowing each of us to deliver different business models, each appropriate for our own markets. One of the things I'm learning is, as awireless provider, I live in the wrong town:-) I'd make more money in this business, if I moved to an underserved area! But I believe in competition, evolution and survival of the fittest. Our competitive environment hardens us. We are adapting to our environment in order to survive, and hopefully one day as a result, we willthrive. Getting better every day. PS. Like the home tower plan. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Tom, $59.95 per month small business, no contrac I'm not sure how that is a good thing. Riskwith no contract, and no margin to justify the risk. If its a retail place with 1 or 2 computers we got a asyncronis plan for $99, but won't pick up the phone for less than $150. $899 including a 70ft bracketed tower. That I want to see. Whats the breakdown of your budget for it? And time for erection? 256Kbit/sec up/down. Small business is less than 6 computers. What risk? equipment and such are totally covered by the install costs tower sections, $75 each x 7= $525. Concrete $35. Bracket $35. Misc. rebar, bolts, gravel, mast, clamps and such $25. total tower parts... $620Shipping? no. Truck delivery from a local dist who makes a delivery loop each weekRadio equipment and antenna varies from $150-250. Average = $200 Labor 4-8 man-hours. Average is 6. $25 per man-hour. Labor = $150Total cost is $970. Cust pays $899 upfront. our normal install labor costs are paid for by the first months service charge of $39.95. On the towers, we accept the the first 2 month service charge is labor recovery.In this county, no permits required for 70 ft or less. No additional fees. And tower install, (for a bracketed tower), is a flat $899. often, the tower is only 40-50 ft, saving us the cost of 2-3 sections as well as the extra labor.Install time for a bracketed tower is 2-4 weeks, depending on time of year and weather conditions.We are a small shop. on some things, we can do well on our pricing. On others, like the 900MHz systems I am looking at, our lack of size hurts us bad...Tom DeReggi wrote: Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed I have to agree with Mark here. We are using the same model he is and we have more work than we know what to do with$39.95 per month home, no contract / $59.95 per month small business, no contract / Higher rates for special services and/or special QoS, contract requiredInstalls start at $199 and range to $899 including a 70ft bracketed tower. Special cases go higher One subdivision just approved $5500 for a freestanding tower to serve their 30 homes in a small valley. We own all radio equipment.We clear our equipment and supplies cost for any new install from the install fee. Sometimes, when we 'recycle' a radio, we even make money on an install, but we don't plan on it. The labor part of the install is covered by the first month or so's fees.We allow self install if the customer buys his own equipment. No setup charges for self install but unit must be approved prior to install and must meet our snr requirements.We no longer try to compete head-to-head with the cable or telephone companies. They can have the $15 per month bottom feeders. There is way too much churn in those markets for us.Another thing that helps us is that we are more than an ISP. We are a full service computer shop as well. When our customer calls in with a problem, and the radio gear checks out, we don't pass them off as a problem in your computer, we hand the call to our computer tech who can usually diagnose the problem over the phone. If we go out and the problem is in the computer, not our radio equipment, we waive the service call charge if the customer has our shop fix the computer, and we will pick it up for free since we are there.We credit a new customers first months service charge as a discount to the referring customer. We started out getting 4-5 calls a month for new service. We now get 5-7 a WEEK. All word of mouth. Make friends with the real estate agents. Give
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
One of the reasons to use Trango is All products, 900, 2.4, 5.3, 5.8. PTP, allhave a common sceme. Linktest command - to diagnose link health. Dual Polarity on the Fly - to quickly adapt, and repairnetwork interference. Low Price - For small communities deployments, lowest CPE price on market, regarding Fox Atlas. Easy configuration sceme- offering remote management, Layer 2 security, large packets (VLAN pass), uninhibited bridging. Polling mechanism- To deliver consistent performance as the network grows. Built in basic surge protection. Support excellent. You can't lose going this path. Plus, Trango gear has shown to hold its value, if you fail, and need to liquidate your gear after the fact. One of the reasons to use Self made gear (Mikrotik, StarOS) 1. Flexible to expand your network at rock bottom cost,home to home realy with jsut a $100 add-on to existing CPE, without needing a direct shot to the central towerfrom every home. This is not only a cost saving in equipment, but in time, savinggetting approval for installation plans with home owners or MTU property managers, or preventing the need to even get approvals. 2.Latest trend gear,available NOW, to deploy today.In other words, OFDM APs available. Has its benefits, which can not be denied. However, I chose Trango. If needing carrier class gear, that can consistently deliver 20 mbps speeds or higher per sector, Alvarion may also be an excellent choice. But its about double the cost, and you lose flexibilty in many areas of business. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Joshua M. Andrews To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Chris: I've heard so much about Trango that I'm really intrigued! What is it that you use for 900 MHz? Why would I choose Trango over WaveRider anyway? Thanks. - Pete: Thank you very much for the detailed response. I wouldn't say I will be desperate as I'm doing it mostly as a benefit to the community and money is a side-note for me (I already have a great career so I'm really in it for the fun). Have you tried Trango's 900 MHz, and if so, did it compare well to WaveRider? Secondly, what equipment for the 802.11b have you had the success with? Thanks again! -- JohnnyO: It seems to be the consensus is not to have any contracts for the service. It also seems to be the consensus that other successful WISPs are having great success not charging rock bottom prices. I've heard great things about WaveRider in general and it seems virtually everyone also says that if I offer more than 1 Mbps to customers then I'm pushing it with WaveRider. You're right about the local business comments.. I've seen it work very well in our "tight-nit" community. I probably should up the price a bit and rethink my WaveRider strategy. I HAVE to have 900 MHz.. other WISPs have seriously come and gone with their 2.4 GHz stuff due to the trees and so I'm stuck between a rock (WaveRider) and a hard place (Trango). Any ideas in this regard? Thank you kindly. - Mark: Thank you very much for your comments. I'm planning on the snail pace to get started. :) Brian: I can probably help you with this. What OS is the sub using? What kind of backup do you want? Data only, Ghosting, Full backups with incremental, how often, etc? How many machines, is this server-based, or client-based? Matt: You stated that you "used trango in the past and don't use them anymore"... who do you use now? Thanks. Blair: I wanna be your friend. I need hand-holding and you sound like you were in the position I'm in today and can really help. What equipment are you using? Thanks. Sincerely, Joshua -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Tom, $59.95 per month small business, no contrac I'm not sure how that is a good thing. Riskwith no contract, and no margin to justify the risk. If its a retail place with 1 or 2 computers we got a asyncronis plan for $99, but won't pick up the phone for less than $150. $899 including a 70ft bracketed tower. That I want to see. Whats the breakdown of your budget for it? And time for erection? 256Kbit/sec up/down. Small business is less than 6 computers. What risk? equipment and such are totally covered by the install costs tower sections, $75 each x 7= $525. Concrete $35. Bracket $35. Misc. rebar, bolts, gravel, mast, clamps and such $25. total tower parts... $620 Shipping? no. Truck delivery from a local dist who makes a delivery loop each week Radio equipment and antenna varies from $150-250. Average = $200 Labor 4-8 man-hours. Average is 6. $25 per man-hour. Labor = $150 Total cost is $970. Cust pays $899 upfront. our normal install labor costs are paid for by the first months service charge of $39.95. On the towers, we accept the the first 2 month service charge is labor recovery. In this county, no permits required for 70 ft or less. No additional fees. And tower install, (for a bracketed tower), is a flat $899. often, the tower is only 40-50 ft, saving us the cost of 2-3 sections as well as the extra labor. Install time for a bracketed tower is 2-4 weeks, depending on time of year and weather conditions. We are a small shop. on some things, we can do well on our pricing. On others, like the 900MHz systems I am looking at, our lack of size hurts us bad... Tom DeReggi wrote: Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed I have to agree with Mark here. We are using the same model he is and we have more work than we know what to do with $39.95 per month home, no contract / $59.95 per month small business, no contract / Higher rates for special services and/or special QoS, contract required Installs start at $199 and range to $899 including a 70ft bracketed tower. Special cases go higher One subdivision just approved $5500 for a freestanding tower to serve their 30 homes in a small valley. We own all radio equipment. We clear our equipment and supplies cost for any new install from the install fee. Sometimes, when we 'recycle' a radio, we even make money on an install, but we don't plan on it. The labor part of the install is covered by the first month or so's fees. We allow self install if the customer buys his own equipment. No setup charges for self install but unit must be approved prior to install and must meet our snr requirements. We no longer try to compete head-to-head with the cable or telephone companies. They can have the $15 per month bottom feeders. There is way too much churn in those markets for us. Another thing that helps us is that we are more than an ISP. We are a full service computer shop as well. When our customer calls in with a problem, and the radio gear checks out, we don't pass them off as a problem in your computer, we hand the call to our computer tech who can usually diagnose the problem over the phone. If we go out and the problem is in the computer, not our radio equipment, we waive the service call charge if the customer has our shop fix the computer, and we will pick it up for free since we are there. We credit a new customers first months service charge as a discount to the referring customer. We started out getting 4-5 calls a month for new service. We now get 5-7 a WEEK. All word of mouth. Make friends with the real estate agents. Give them flyers to give to their clients. Work hard to get the local, small businesses as clients. They will give you all the free, word of mouth advertising you can use. They will also let pass out your flyers to their customers It works for us We now offer service anywhere in our county. We built our network with our own private funds. No government handouts. We are profitable, and have less than $10K in debt. We will retire that debt this year. Mark Nash wrote: Doesn't it depend on your customer base? Did we hear that this is a small town? Your way of doing things is like mine. Show value and provide a good service and you will have very little churn in your customers. There are a number of small towns (1k-4k population) that I service, but once we went into the larger town (200k), we would have to give it away, longer ROI on the CPE, lower margin, etc. And the customers are more snobby when they are used to being overserved by the larger companies (telco cable). Being a small company, I have found that our initial focus is the best for us: small towns
RE: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
WR. Ive never used the Trango 900 Mhz. WR needs a POE CCU. Not sure if Trango has that option or not. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Joshua M. Andrews Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:54 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Chris: I've heard so much about Trango that I'm really intrigued! What is it that you use for 900 MHz? Why would I choose Trango over WaveRider anyway? Thanks. - Pete: Thank you very much for the detailed response. I wouldn't say I will be desperate as I'm doing it mostly as a benefit to the community and money is a side-note for me (I already have a great career so I'm really in it for the fun). Have you tried Trango's 900 MHz, and if so, did it compare well to WaveRider? Secondly, what equipment for the 802.11b have you had the success with? Thanks again! -- JohnnyO: It seems to be the consensus is not to have any contracts for the service. It also seems to be the consensus that other successful WISPs are having great success not charging rock bottom prices. I've heard great things about WaveRider in general and it seems virtually everyone also says that if I offer more than 1 Mbps to customers then I'm pushing it with WaveRider. You're right about the local business comments.. I've seen it work very well in our tight-nit community. I probably should up the price a bit and rethink my WaveRider strategy. I HAVE to have 900 MHz.. other WISPs have seriously come and gone with their 2.4 GHz stuff due to the trees and so I'm stuck between a rock (WaveRider) and a hard place (Trango). Any ideas in this regard? Thank you kindly. - Mark: Thank you very much for your comments. I'm planning on the snail pace to get started. :) Brian: I can probably help you with this. What OS is the sub using? What kind of backup do you want? Data only, Ghosting, Full backups with incremental, how often, etc? How many machines, is this server-based, or client-based? Matt: You stated that you used trango in the past and don't use them anymore... who do you use now? Thanks. Blair: I wanna be your friend. I need hand-holding and you sound like you were in the position I'm in today and can really help. What equipment are you using? Thanks. Sincerely, Joshua -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
I have been told that the new WR CCU is POE-able. I don't know about Trango either. pd chris cooper wrote: WR. Ive never used the Trango 900 Mhz. WR needs a POE CCU. Not sure if Trango has that option or not. c -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Joshua M. Andrews *Sent:* Friday, April 07, 2006 8:54 PM *To:* wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Chris: I've heard so much about Trango that I'm really intrigued! What is it that you use for 900 MHz? Why would I choose Trango over WaveRider anyway? Thanks. - Pete: Thank you very much for the detailed response. I wouldn't say I will be desperate as I'm doing it mostly as a benefit to the community and money is a side-note for me (I already have a great career so I'm really in it for the fun). Have you tried Trango's 900 MHz, and if so, did it compare well to WaveRider? Secondly, what equipment for the 802.11b have you had the success with? Thanks again! -- JohnnyO: It seems to be the consensus is not to have any contracts for the service. It also seems to be the consensus that other successful WISPs are having great success not charging rock bottom prices. I've heard great things about WaveRider in general and it seems virtually everyone also says that if I offer more than 1 Mbps to customers then I'm pushing it with WaveRider. You're right about the local business comments.. I've seen it work very well in our tight-nit community. I probably should up the price a bit and rethink my WaveRider strategy. I HAVE to have 900 MHz.. other WISPs have seriously come and gone with their 2.4 GHz stuff due to the trees and so I'm stuck between a rock (WaveRider) and a hard place (Trango). Any ideas in this regard? Thank you kindly. - Mark: Thank you very much for your comments. I'm planning on the snail pace to get started. :) Brian: I can probably help you with this. What OS is the sub using? What kind of backup do you want? Data only, Ghosting, Full backups with incremental, how often, etc? How many machines, is this server-based, or client-based? Matt: You stated that you used trango in the past and don't use them anymore... who do you use now? Thanks. Blair: I wanna be your friend. I need hand-holding and you sound like you were in the position I'm in today and can really help. What equipment are you using? Thanks. Sincerely, Joshua No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 - Release Date: 4/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Title: Message
$899 including a 70ft
bracketed tower.
Sorry
Blair, but I am with Tom on this one. There is no such thing as a $899.00
"bracketed" tower that is installed properly. There are no small towers out
there rated at 70ft "bracketed" to anything. You need at minimum 1yd of concrete
for a Rohn25 40ft FreeStanding tower that is bracketed to the side of the
house.. l
$5500.00 for a freestanding tower ? ? ? ? Are you talking about
just the steel ? What about base foundation ? cement ? labor
?
JohnnyO
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Tom DeReggiSent: Friday, April 07, 2006 4:55 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE
Cost Ideas Needed
$59.95 per month small business, no contrac
I'm not sure how that is a good thing.
Riskwith no contract, and no margin to justify the
risk.
If its a retail place with 1 or 2 computers we
got a asyncronis plan for $99, but won't pick up the phone for less than
$150.
That I want to see. Whats the breakdown of your
budget for it? And time for errection?
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless
Broadband
- Original Message -
From:
Blair Davis
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 3:20
PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas
Needed
I have to agree with Mark here. We are using the same
model he is and we have more work than we know what to do
with$39.95 per month home, no contract / $59.95 per month
small business, no contract / Higher rates for special services and/or
special QoS, contract requiredInstalls start at $199 and range to
$899 including a 70ft bracketed tower. Special cases go higher One
subdivision just approved $5500 for a freestanding tower to serve their 30
homes in a small valley. We own all radio equipment.We clear
our equipment and supplies cost for any new install from the install
fee. Sometimes, when we 'recycle' a radio, we even make money on an
install, but we don't plan on it. The labor part of the install is
covered by the first month or so's fees.We allow self install if the
customer buys his own equipment. No setup charges for self install but
unit must be approved prior to install and must meet our snr
requirements.We no longer try to compete head-to-head with the cable
or telephone companies. They can have the $15 per month bottom
feeders. There is way too much churn in those markets for
us.Another thing that helps us is that we are more than an
ISP. We are a full service computer shop as well. When our
customer calls in with a problem, and the radio gear checks out, we don't
pass them off as a problem in your computer, we hand the call to our
computer tech who can usually diagnose the problem over the phone. If
we go out and the problem is in the computer, not our radio equipment, we
waive the service call charge if the customer has our shop fix the computer,
and we will pick it up for free since we are there.We credit a new
customers first months service charge as a discount to the referring
customer. We started out getting 4-5 calls a month for new
service. We now get 5-7 a WEEK. All word of mouth. Make
friends with the real estate agents. Give them flyers to give to their
clients. Work hard to get the local, small businesses as
clients. They will give you all the free, word of mouth advertising
you can use. They will also let pass out your flyers to their
customersIt works for us We now offer service anywhere
in our county. We built our network with our own private funds.
No government handouts. We are profitable, and have less than $10K in
debt. We will retire that debt this
year.Mark Nash wrote:
Doesn't it depend on your customer base? Did we hear that this is a small
town? Your way of doing things is like mine. Show value and provide a good
service and you will have very little churn in your customers. There are a
number of small towns (1k-4k population) that I service, but once we went
into the larger town (200k), we would have to give it away, longer ROI on
the CPE, lower margin, etc. And the customers are more snobby when they are
used to being overserved by the larger companies (telco cable).
Being a small company, I have found that our initial focus is the best for
us: small towns rural area. We have a nice valley that
(topographically-speaking) supports this well. We are members of the
chambers of commerce, our kids have played sports together, see each other
in the grocery store, etc. I have even gone so far as to work with the
local hardware store to carry most of the general items that I use such as
RJ45's, weatherproof tape, zip-t
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Joshua M. Andrews wrote: Cliff: Thank you for the information. The areas of DSL are very spotty and cable is very inexpensive and unreliable. Many people are upset at both situations. DSL is offered for about $30 per month with purchase of a DSL modem at around $50 or so and a 1 year contract is required. Cable service rents you the modem for $10 per month and charges $40 per month for service on top of that ($50 per month total for those of you out there in other posts that think half-duplex is as good a full-duplex). I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. -- Pete: Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't want to be rude but I took a look at your website and it needs some work. :( In any case, I think you have a point. Could you elaborate more on what you meant by going with a 802.11b AP/CPE. Do you mean you are shooting a signal out to an area using WaveRider and then distributing it via another 802.11b AP from there? I think your right about contracts and install fees and it sounds like your saying that I'm just going to have to eat the cost and extend my ROI per user. Thanks again. 900Mhz client to 802.11b AP to 802.11b client is one scenario, but I would also put 802.11b APs on the main tower. If you put up a $300 AP and 5 $150 CPE, you will be doing better ($220 average customer equipment cost) than a purely Waverider network. You should be able to do better than 5 clients per AP. Yes my website needs work, but we always have more installs that we possibly have time to get to. When we get caught up on installs, we will revamp the website to bring more in. I wouldn't count on giving 1.5M to every customer on your network over Waverider. I have played with every GOS setting I can come up with, and cannot MAINTAIN over 1Mbps connectivity to multiple clients. I would also consider the thought that you don't have to be the cheapest ISP in town to be the busiest or the best.. Its gonna take a LOT more $25/mo clients to get traction than at $40 or $50/mo. I wouldn't install any customer who will take 12 months to get CFP (cash flow positive, paying for CPE and installation costs). Not starting out, anyway, unless I was DESPERATE to get market share. Desperation is almost never a good position to be in. I get $39/mo for residential service and $59/$99 for business service. DSL is cheaper, and in one area, Cablemodem is cheaper. We still stay busy with new customers, and we don't put in a new tower until the last tower is CFP. More money coming in the door than going out is a big part (only part?) for successful business. ISP business is no exception. When you run out of money, you are out of business. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. IMNSHO - If you are trying to compete you will fall on your face in a heartbeat. We charge more then the competition and we do so for a reason. Our installs start at $250 for a 'basic' install. Our monthly rates are atleast $10-$15/more then the DSL or Cable offerings in our area. We avoid the bottom feeders this way. We could double or triple our subscriber count within 12mos if we would drop down $15/mo for our service but I refuse to do that. Volume of low end subscribers becomes a very costly support decision. I refuse to compete on pricing - we are local - we hire local people - we donate and support the local sports teams / associations. We shake our subscribers hands in the stores / at gas pumps / baseball games. We pump $$ into the local business's for our supplies, materials. $24.95/mo - If I were you - I would SERIOUSLY rethink your business model. Oh - we also don't have contracts - We do have a TOS, but have found there is really no reason to get subscribers to committ. If we do our job - they will stay - if we fail to support them as we've promised - they will bail. Kinda helps keep us on our toes :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Joshua M. Andrews wrote: Cliff: Thank you for the information. The areas of DSL are very spotty and cable is very inexpensive and unreliable. Many people are upset at both situations. DSL is offered for about $30 per month with purchase of a DSL modem at around $50 or so and a 1 year contract is required. Cable service rents you the modem for $10 per month and charges $40 per month for service on top of that ($50 per month total for those of you out there in other posts that think half-duplex is as good a full-duplex). I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. -- Pete: Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't want to be rude but I took a look at your website and it needs some work. :( In any case, I think you have a point. Could you elaborate more on what you meant by going with a 802.11b AP/CPE. Do you mean you are shooting a signal out to an area using WaveRider and then distributing it via another 802.11b AP from there? I think your right about contracts and install fees and it sounds like your saying that I'm just going to have to eat the cost and extend my ROI per user. Thanks again. 900Mhz client to 802.11b AP to 802.11b client is one scenario, but I would also put 802.11b APs on the main tower. If you put up a $300 AP and 5 $150 CPE, you will be doing better ($220 average customer equipment cost) than a purely Waverider network. You should be able to do better than 5 clients per AP. Yes my website needs work, but we always have more installs that we possibly have time to get to. When we get caught up on installs, we will revamp the website to bring more in. I wouldn't count on giving 1.5M to every customer on your network over Waverider. I have played with every GOS setting I can come up with, and cannot MAINTAIN over 1Mbps connectivity to multiple clients. I would also consider the thought that you don't have to be the cheapest ISP in town to be the busiest or the best.. Its gonna take a LOT more $25/mo clients to get traction than at $40 or $50/mo. I wouldn't install any customer who will take 12 months to get CFP (cash flow positive, paying for CPE and installation costs). Not starting out, anyway, unless I was DESPERATE to get market share. Desperation is almost never a good position to be in. I get $39/mo for residential service and $59/$99 for business service. DSL is cheaper, and in one area, Cablemodem is cheaper. We still stay busy with new customers, and we don't put in a new tower until the last tower is CFP. More money coming in the door than going out is a big part (only part?) for successful business. ISP business is no exception. When you run out of money, you are out of business. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Well said. You don't need to be the cheapest to be profitable. pd JohnnyO wrote: I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. IMNSHO - If you are trying to compete you will fall on your face in a heartbeat. We charge more then the competition and we do so for a reason. Our installs start at $250 for a 'basic' install. Our monthly rates are atleast $10-$15/more then the DSL or Cable offerings in our area. We avoid the bottom feeders this way. We could double or triple our subscriber count within 12mos if we would drop down $15/mo for our service but I refuse to do that. Volume of low end subscribers becomes a very costly support decision. I refuse to compete on pricing - we are local - we hire local people - we donate and support the local sports teams / associations. We shake our subscribers hands in the stores / at gas pumps / baseball games. We pump $$ into the local business's for our supplies, materials. $24.95/mo - If I were you - I would SERIOUSLY rethink your business model. Oh - we also don't have contracts - We do have a TOS, but have found there is really no reason to get subscribers to committ. If we do our job - they will stay - if we fail to support them as we've promised - they will bail. Kinda helps keep us on our toes :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Joshua M. Andrews wrote: Cliff: Thank you for the information. The areas of DSL are very spotty and cable is very inexpensive and unreliable. Many people are upset at both situations. DSL is offered for about $30 per month with purchase of a DSL modem at around $50 or so and a 1 year contract is required. Cable service rents you the modem for $10 per month and charges $40 per month for service on top of that ($50 per month total for those of you out there in other posts that think half-duplex is as good a full-duplex). I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. -- Pete: Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't want to be rude but I took a look at your website and it needs some work. :( In any case, I think you have a point. Could you elaborate more on what you meant by going with a 802.11b AP/CPE. Do you mean you are shooting a signal out to an area using WaveRider and then distributing it via another 802.11b AP from there? I think your right about contracts and install fees and it sounds like your saying that I'm just going to have to eat the cost and extend my ROI per user. Thanks again. 900Mhz client to 802.11b AP to 802.11b client is one scenario, but I would also put 802.11b APs on the main tower. If you put up a $300 AP and 5 $150 CPE, you will be doing better ($220 average customer equipment cost) than a purely Waverider network. You should be able to do better than 5 clients per AP. Yes my website needs work, but we always have more installs that we possibly have time to get to. When we get caught up on installs, we will revamp the website to bring more in. I wouldn't count on giving 1.5M to every customer on your network over Waverider. I have played with every GOS setting I can come up with, and cannot MAINTAIN over 1Mbps connectivity to multiple clients. I would also consider the thought that you don't have to be the cheapest ISP in town to be the busiest or the best.. Its gonna take a LOT more $25/mo clients to get traction than at $40 or $50/mo. I wouldn't install any customer who will take 12 months to get CFP (cash flow positive, paying for CPE and installation costs). Not starting out, anyway, unless I was DESPERATE to get market share. Desperation is almost never a good position to be in. I get $39/mo for residential service and $59/$99 for business service. DSL is cheaper, and in one area, Cablemodem is cheaper. We still stay busy with new customers, and we don't put in a new tower until the last tower is CFP. More money coming in the door than going out is a big part (only part?) for successful business. ISP business is no exception. When you run out of money, you are out of business. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Johny made a great point. In wireless you are going to need the margin to cover truck rolls, and support, equipment failure, and all that stuff. What you will find is that wirelesss has less customer awareness and is harder to sell, and you are going to need mnore margin to pay you back for that effort. Selling at a lower price just labels you as a commodity provider, and takes away the benefit that most that would chose wireless would want. A choice of a local provider that offers better support. An item with a price tag of $20 is worth $20 in the consumers mind. A product with a price tag of $45 is worth $45 in the consumers mind. Not all will afford the $45 product, but you want the ones that can. They are also probably the ones not always looking for something for free, and willing to pay for add-on field service work, etc. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. IMNSHO - If you are trying to compete you will fall on your face in a heartbeat. We charge more then the competition and we do so for a reason. Our installs start at $250 for a 'basic' install. Our monthly rates are atleast $10-$15/more then the DSL or Cable offerings in our area. We avoid the bottom feeders this way. We could double or triple our subscriber count within 12mos if we would drop down $15/mo for our service but I refuse to do that. Volume of low end subscribers becomes a very costly support decision. I refuse to compete on pricing - we are local - we hire local people - we donate and support the local sports teams / associations. We shake our subscribers hands in the stores / at gas pumps / baseball games. We pump $$ into the local business's for our supplies, materials. $24.95/mo - If I were you - I would SERIOUSLY rethink your business model. Oh - we also don't have contracts - We do have a TOS, but have found there is really no reason to get subscribers to committ. If we do our job - they will stay - if we fail to support them as we've promised - they will bail. Kinda helps keep us on our toes :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Joshua M. Andrews wrote: Cliff: Thank you for the information. The areas of DSL are very spotty and cable is very inexpensive and unreliable. Many people are upset at both situations. DSL is offered for about $30 per month with purchase of a DSL modem at around $50 or so and a 1 year contract is required. Cable service rents you the modem for $10 per month and charges $40 per month for service on top of that ($50 per month total for those of you out there in other posts that think half-duplex is as good a full-duplex). I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. -- Pete: Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't want to be rude but I took a look at your website and it needs some work. :( In any case, I think you have a point. Could you elaborate more on what you meant by going with a 802.11b AP/CPE. Do you mean you are shooting a signal out to an area using WaveRider and then distributing it via another 802.11b AP from there? I think your right about contracts and install fees and it sounds like your saying that I'm just going to have to eat the cost and extend my ROI per user. Thanks again. 900Mhz client to 802.11b AP to 802.11b client is one scenario, but I would also put 802.11b APs on the main tower. If you put up a $300 AP and 5 $150 CPE, you will be doing better ($220 average customer equipment cost) than a purely Waverider network. You should be able to do better than 5 clients per AP. Yes my website needs work, but we always have more installs that we possibly have time to get to. When we get caught up on installs, we will revamp the website to bring more in. I wouldn't count on giving 1.5M to every customer on your network over Waverider. I have played with every GOS setting I can come up with, and cannot MAINTAIN over 1Mbps connectivity to multiple clients. I would also consider the thought that you don't have to be the cheapest ISP in town to be the busiest or the best.. Its gonna take a LOT more $25/mo clients to get traction than at $40 or $50/mo. I wouldn't install any customer who will take 12 months to get CFP
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
You stole my thoughts!? ;) JohnnyO wrote: I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. IMNSHO - If you are trying to compete you will fall on your face in a heartbeat. We charge more then the competition and we do so for a reason. Our installs start at $250 for a 'basic' install. Our monthly rates are atleast $10-$15/more then the DSL or Cable offerings in our area. We avoid the bottom feeders this way. We could double or triple our subscriber count within 12mos if we would drop down $15/mo for our service but I refuse to do that. Volume of low end subscribers becomes a very costly support decision. I refuse to compete on pricing - we are local - we hire local people - we donate and support the local sports teams / associations. We shake our subscribers hands in the stores / at gas pumps / baseball games. We pump $$ into the local business's for our supplies, materials. $24.95/mo - If I were you - I would SERIOUSLY rethink your business model. Oh - we also don't have contracts - We do have a TOS, but have found there is really no reason to get subscribers to committ. If we do our job - they will stay - if we fail to support them as we've promised - they will bail. Kinda helps keep us on our toes :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Joshua M. Andrews wrote: Cliff: Thank you for the information. The areas of DSL are very spotty and cable is very inexpensive and unreliable. Many people are upset at both situations. DSL is offered for about $30 per month with purchase of a DSL modem at around $50 or so and a 1 year contract is required. Cable service rents you the modem for $10 per month and charges $40 per month for service on top of that ($50 per month total for those of you out there in other posts that think half-duplex is as good a full-duplex). I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. -- Pete: Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't want to be rude but I took a look at your website and it needs some work. :( In any case, I think you have a point. Could you elaborate more on what you meant by going with a 802.11b AP/CPE. Do you mean you are shooting a signal out to an area using WaveRider and then distributing it via another 802.11b AP from there? I think your right about contracts and install fees and it sounds like your saying that I'm just going to have to eat the cost and extend my ROI per user. Thanks again. 900Mhz client to 802.11b AP to 802.11b client is one scenario, but I would also put 802.11b APs on the main tower. If you put up a $300 AP and 5 $150 CPE, you will be doing better ($220 average customer equipment cost) than a purely Waverider network. You should be able to do better than 5 clients per AP. Yes my website needs work, but we always have more installs that we possibly have time to get to. When we get caught up on installs, we will revamp the website to bring more in. I wouldn't count on giving 1.5M to every customer on your network over Waverider. I have played with every GOS setting I can come up with, and cannot MAINTAIN over 1Mbps connectivity to multiple clients. I would also consider the thought that you don't have to be the cheapest ISP in town to be the busiest or the best.. Its gonna take a LOT more $25/mo clients to get traction than at $40 or $50/mo. I wouldn't install any customer who will take 12 months to get CFP (cash flow positive, paying for CPE and installation costs). Not starting out, anyway, unless I was DESPERATE to get market share. Desperation is almost never a good position to be in. I get $39/mo for residential service and $59/$99 for business service. DSL is cheaper, and in one area, Cablemodem is cheaper. We still stay busy with new customers, and we don't put in a new tower until the last tower is CFP. More money coming in the door than going out is a big part (only part?) for successful business. ISP business is no exception. When you run out of money, you are out of business. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
$59.95 per month small business, no contrac I'm not sure how that is a good thing. Riskwith no contract, and no margin to justify the risk. If its a retail place with 1 or 2 computers we got a asyncronis plan for $99, but won't pick up the phone for less than $150. $899 including a 70ft bracketed tower. That I want to see. Whats the breakdown of your budget for it? And time for errection? Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed I have to agree with Mark here. We are using the same model he is and we have more work than we know what to do with$39.95 per month home, no contract / $59.95 per month small business, no contract / Higher rates for special services and/or special QoS, contract requiredInstalls start at $199 and range to $899 including a 70ft bracketed tower. Special cases go higher One subdivision just approved $5500 for a freestanding tower to serve their 30 homes in a small valley. We own all radio equipment.We clear our equipment and supplies cost for any new install from the install fee. Sometimes, when we 'recycle' a radio, we even make money on an install, but we don't plan on it. The labor part of the install is covered by the first month or so's fees.We allow self install if the customer buys his own equipment. No setup charges for self install but unit must be approved prior to install and must meet our snr requirements.We no longer try to compete head-to-head with the cable or telephone companies. They can have the $15 per month bottom feeders. There is way too much churn in those markets for us.Another thing that helps us is that we are more than an ISP. We are a full service computer shop as well. When our customer calls in with a problem, and the radio gear checks out, we don't pass them off as a problem in your computer, we hand the call to our computer tech who can usually diagnose the problem over the phone. If we go out and the problem is in the computer, not our radio equipment, we waive the service call charge if the customer has our shop fix the computer, and we will pick it up for free since we are there.We credit a new customers first months service charge as a discount to the referring customer. We started out getting 4-5 calls a month for new service. We now get 5-7 a WEEK. All word of mouth. Make friends with the real estate agents. Give them flyers to give to their clients. Work hard to get the local, small businesses as clients. They will give you all the free, word of mouth advertising you can use. They will also let pass out your flyers to their customersIt works for us We now offer service anywhere in our county. We built our network with our own private funds. No government handouts. We are profitable, and have less than $10K in debt. We will retire that debt this year.Mark Nash wrote: Doesn't it depend on your customer base? Did we hear that this is a small town? Your way of doing things is like mine. Show value and provide a good service and you will have very little churn in your customers. There are a number of small towns (1k-4k population) that I service, but once we went into the larger town (200k), we would have to give it away, longer ROI on the CPE, lower margin, etc. And the customers are more snobby when they are used to being overserved by the larger companies (telco cable). Being a small company, I have found that our initial focus is the best for us: small towns rural area. We have a nice valley that (topographically-speaking) supports this well. We are members of the chambers of commerce, our kids have played sports together, see each other in the grocery store, etc. I have even gone so far as to work with the local hardware store to carry most of the general items that I use such as RJ45's, weatherproof tape, zip-ties, mounting screws such. We charge $44.95 for a residential/mom pop-type business with a $199 installation. We give a $25 credit to an existing customer who refers a new customer to us, and that new customer gets $25 off of their installation fee just for being referred. Works great. No contract...provide a good service and don't give people a reason to think about changing if they have a choice. This works for a small-town environment, but as I said, it all changes if you're going after a larger town/city/whatever. Then it's harder to sell your value at a higher price. You can do it, it just takes more. I believe that without a significant amount of funding available up front, a WISP would be crazy to try to come in at $25 per month. Consider that you may get 1 to 2 customers per month in the beginning until your advertising word-of-mouth gets going (4-10 months depending
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Also Gentlemen and Ladies, Remember why these good folks live in the backwoods of Louisiana, etc. :-) They like the peace and quiet and are willing to pay a local person to supply service to them. They also know that they have to pay a little extra to have the services of the big cities delivered to them. I charge $395.00CAN setup (using Tranzeo CPQ's now) and $55.00, $75.00 and $95.00 per month. I own the equipment. And yes I have noticed in my 5th year it has really picked up. Struggling to keep up, but happy. If you tell me about the big guy's cheapest price, I am the first one to suggest that you go with them as they definitely fit your criteria, thank you for the call, bye. My customers like the fact that they can call up the fool and shoot the fat with him and he actually remembers some stupid tidbit of their personal life. He is actually for real and is the first one to say he has screwed up. Good old fashion values. Yes some people have met the other side of me, I send them packing no regrets. Never ever bring your big city attitude to me, I will call the courier to send it packing and I do have competition. You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca office 905 349-2084 Emergency only Pager 905 377-6900 skype cajeptha Tom DeReggi wrote: Johny made a great point. In wireless you are going to need the margin to cover truck rolls, and support, equipment failure, and all that stuff. What you will find is that wirelesss has less customer awareness and is harder to sell, and you are going to need mnore margin to pay you back for that effort. Selling at a lower price just labels you as a commodity provider, and takes away the benefit that most that would chose wireless would want. A choice of a local provider that offers better support. An item with a price tag of $20 is worth $20 in the consumers mind. A product with a price tag of $45 is worth $45 in the consumers mind. Not all will afford the $45 product, but you want the ones that can. They are also probably the ones not always looking for something for free, and willing to pay for add-on field service work, etc. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. IMNSHO - If you are trying to compete you will fall on your face in a heartbeat. We charge more then the competition and we do so for a reason. Our installs start at $250 for a 'basic' install. Our monthly rates are atleast $10-$15/more then the DSL or Cable offerings in our area. We avoid the bottom feeders this way. We could double or triple our subscriber count within 12mos if we would drop down $15/mo for our service but I refuse to do that. Volume of low end subscribers becomes a very costly support decision. I refuse to compete on pricing - we are local - we hire local people - we donate and support the local sports teams / associations. We shake our subscribers hands in the stores / at gas pumps / baseball games. We pump $$ into the local business's for our supplies, materials. $24.95/mo - If I were you - I would SERIOUSLY rethink your business model. Oh - we also don't have contracts - We do have a TOS, but have found there is really no reason to get subscribers to committ. If we do our job - they will stay - if we fail to support them as we've promised - they will bail. Kinda helps keep us on our toes :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Joshua M. Andrews wrote: Cliff: Thank you for the information. The areas of DSL are very spotty and cable is very inexpensive and unreliable. Many people are upset at both situations. DSL is offered for about $30 per month with purchase of a DSL modem at around $50 or so and a 1 year contract is required. Cable service rents you the modem for $10 per month and charges $40 per month for service on top of that ($50 per month total for those of you out there in other posts that think half-duplex is as good a full-duplex). I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. -- Pete: Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't want to be rude but I took a look at your website and it needs some work. :( In any case, I think you have a point. Could you elaborate more on what you
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Any idea how this might work in a market that has 50% part time visitors? Many 2nd homes. We might starve during the off-season.On 4/7/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: $59.95 per month small business, no contrac I'm not sure how that is a good thing. Riskwith no contract, and no margin to justify the risk. If its a retail place with 1 or 2 computers we got a asyncronis plan for $99, but won't pick up the phone for less than $150. $899 including a 70ft bracketed tower. That I want to see. Whats the breakdown of your budget for it? And time for errection? Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed I have to agree with Mark here. We are using the same model he is and we have more work than we know what to do with$39.95 per month home, no contract / $59.95 per month small business, no contract / Higher rates for special services and/or special QoS, contract requiredInstalls start at $199 and range to $899 including a 70ft bracketed tower. Special cases go higher One subdivision just approved $5500 for a freestanding tower to serve their 30 homes in a small valley. We own all radio equipment.We clear our equipment and supplies cost for any new install from the install fee. Sometimes, when we 'recycle' a radio, we even make money on an install, but we don't plan on it. The labor part of the install is covered by the first month or so's fees.We allow self install if the customer buys his own equipment. No setup charges for self install but unit must be approved prior to install and must meet our snr requirements.We no longer try to compete head-to-head with the cable or telephone companies. They can have the $15 per month bottom feeders. There is way too much churn in those markets for us.Another thing that helps us is that we are more than an ISP. We are a full service computer shop as well. When our customer calls in with a problem, and the radio gear checks out, we don't pass them off as a problem in your computer, we hand the call to our computer tech who can usually diagnose the problem over the phone. If we go out and the problem is in the computer, not our radio equipment, we waive the service call charge if the customer has our shop fix the computer, and we will pick it up for free since we are there.We credit a new customers first months service charge as a discount to the referring customer. We started out getting 4-5 calls a month for new service. We now get 5-7 a WEEK. All word of mouth. Make friends with the real estate agents. Give them flyers to give to their clients. Work hard to get the local, small businesses as clients. They will give you all the free, word of mouth advertising you can use. They will also let pass out your flyers to their customersIt works for us We now offer service anywhere in our county. We built our network with our own private funds. No government handouts. We are profitable, and have less than $10K in debt. We will retire that debt this year.Mark Nash wrote: Doesn't it depend on your customer base? Did we hear that this is a smalltown? Your way of doing things is like mine. Show value and provide a good service and you will have very little churn in your customers. There are anumber of small towns (1k-4k population) that I service, but once we wentinto the larger town (200k), we would have to give it away, longer ROI on the CPE, lower margin, etc. And the customers are more snobby when they areused to being overserved by the larger companies (telco cable).Being a small company, I have found that our initial focus is the best for us: small towns rural area. We have a nice valley that(topographically-speaking) supports this well. We are members of thechambers of commerce, our kids have played sports together, see each otherin the grocery store, etc. I have even gone so far as to work with the local hardware store to carry most of the general items that I use such asRJ45's, weatherproof tape, zip-ties, mounting screws such.We charge $44.95 for a residential/mom pop-type business with a $199 installation. We give a $25 credit to an existing customer who refers a newcustomer to us, and that new customer gets $25 off of their installation feejust for being referred. Works great. No contract...provide a good service and don't give people a reason to think about changing if they have achoice.This works for a small-town environment, but as I said, it all changes ifyou're going after a larger town/city/whatever. Then it's harder to sell your value at a higher price. You can do it, it just takes more.I believe that without a significant amount of funding available up front,a WISP would be crazy to try to come
