RE: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput

2005-08-25 Thread Charles Wu
In the lab, in a clean environment, using BSD hosts and TCP, we get about
1.8 Mb of Real 
throughput

However, w/ NLoS 900 Mhz systems, there are too many variables (e.g., which
data rate, loss, multipath, etc) that will affect your real-world
throughput performance

To get further FREE information about of WaveRider 900 MHz experiences, I
would recommend you look through http://www.wispreviews.com - there's a
section dedicated to 900 MHz

-Charles

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Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput

2005-08-25 Thread John Scrivner
I do not think you will find any 900 Mhz 2M X 2M solutions out there 
that will scale well. I use Waverider and it works really well for my 
service. I offer two plans. 768K and 256K up and down. I can get about 
70 to 100 clients per sector with Waverider running this way. I think 
the polling MAC in Waverider keeps the max speed per client at about 1.5 
meg up and down. If I have someone needing 2M or more I sell them a 
connection to my Trango AP.

Scriv


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


Anyone with real-world experience with them?

I sell 2M X 2M connections... will WR gear keep up with this, and what is
the maximum available real throughput?   Not radio rates, but real-world
throughput?



North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-

 


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RE: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput

2005-08-25 Thread Charles Wu
Canopy 900 has close to 4 Mb of aggregate *REAL* thoughput now in 2x mode

-Charles

---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput


I do not think you will find any 900 Mhz 2M X 2M solutions out there 
that will scale well. I use Waverider and it works really well for my 
service. I offer two plans. 768K and 256K up and down. I can get about 
70 to 100 clients per sector with Waverider running this way. I think 
the polling MAC in Waverider keeps the max speed per client at about 1.5 
meg up and down. If I have someone needing 2M or more I sell them a 
connection to my Trango AP.
Scriv


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

Anyone with real-world experience with them?

I sell 2M X 2M connections... will WR gear keep up with this, and what is
the maximum available real throughput?   Not radio rates, but real-world
throughput?



North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
---
-
-

  

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Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput

2005-08-25 Thread John Scrivner
I take it from this post regarding Canopy that the other systems you 
tested were not as much speed? Waverider has more aggregate throughput 
than what each client individually will get because of polling. So maybe 
three Waverider clients running at full speed could be the same as 
Canopy aggregate? I just don't know. I do believe that Waverider 
aggregate max is about 3 meg per sector.


If you want to compare then let us see what you have seen for all the 
systems you have tested. Let's compare apples to apples.  Canopy allows 
one single client to use full aggregate speed while Waverider does not 
as far as I know. I believe this is a matter of design choice and not a 
limitation in Waverider. I could be wrong but I am certain I was told 
this by Waverider representatives in the past. I welcome your input.


I do not know what other systems use for site survey tools but Waverider 
has an incredible spectrum analyzer tool which develops a spectrum scan 
readout of the entire 900 Mhz band. This is a full color chart in PDF 
format created in the CCU itself.  It works fantastic and helps identify 
any possible interference right away. I am very satisfied with the 
Waverider systems we have in place. We currently are running 4 towers of 
Waverider. Two of them have omni's. One has two sectors and another has 
three sectors. We have about 230 Waverider customers online right now. 
They are the most reliable wireless systems we have online.

Scriv


Charles Wu wrote:


Canopy 900 has close to 4 Mb of aggregate *REAL* thoughput now in 2x mode

-Charles

---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput


I do not think you will find any 900 Mhz 2M X 2M solutions out there 
that will scale well. I use Waverider and it works really well for my 
service. I offer two plans. 768K and 256K up and down. I can get about 
70 to 100 clients per sector with Waverider running this way. I think 
the polling MAC in Waverider keeps the max speed per client at about 1.5 
meg up and down. If I have someone needing 2M or more I sell them a 
connection to my Trango AP.

Scriv


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

 


Anyone with real-world experience with them?

I sell 2M X 2M connections... will WR gear keep up with this, and what is
the maximum available real throughput?   Not radio rates, but real-world
throughput?



North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
---
-
-



   


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Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput

2005-08-25 Thread rcomroe
Canopy claimed long and loud about real aggregate throughput.  However, last 
February Moto put out an application note that discloses real Canopy 
aggregate throughput will be significantly less with short packet traffic, 
while claiming that real internet traffic would never be short enough to be 
of concern.  I did an informal survey of packet length distributions from 4 
different wisp systems that volunteered and found that average packet 
lengths were short enough to cause significant Canopy capacity loss ... 
according to Canopy's own application note, real aggregate throughput may be 
as low as only 1/10th of the advertised aggregate throughput.  No 
clarification has ever been offered to help project actual throughput given 
your average packet length traffic profile, but I'd be skeptical of real 
Canopy aggregate throughputs as real traffic seems skewed towards short 
packet lengths (more-so with VPN  VoIP traffic).

All systems may also have real-traffic capacity loses, but I don't believe 
the 802.11 physical systems will lose capacity due to the fixed slot sizes 
as Canopy employs (I think all the 802.11 systems utilize variable length 
transmissions over-the-air).  According to the Moto application note, short 
packet length suffers a significant capacity loss to Canopy due to their 
fixed length slots over-the-air.  I'm not familiar with Waverider's physical 
to offer any comparison.  Can anyone?

Rich

- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput


I take it from this post regarding Canopy that the other systems you
tested were not as much speed? Waverider has more aggregate throughput
than what each client individually will get because of polling. So maybe
three Waverider clients running at full speed could be the same as
Canopy aggregate? I just don't know. I do believe that Waverider
aggregate max is about 3 meg per sector.

If you want to compare then let us see what you have seen for all the
systems you have tested. Let's compare apples to apples.  Canopy allows
one single client to use full aggregate speed while Waverider does not
as far as I know. I believe this is a matter of design choice and not a
limitation in Waverider. I could be wrong but I am certain I was told
this by Waverider representatives in the past. I welcome your input.

I do not know what other systems use for site survey tools but Waverider
has an incredible spectrum analyzer tool which develops a spectrum scan
readout of the entire 900 Mhz band. This is a full color chart in PDF
format created in the CCU itself.  It works fantastic and helps identify
any possible interference right away. I am very satisfied with the
Waverider systems we have in place. We currently are running 4 towers of
Waverider. Two of them have omni's. One has two sectors and another has
three sectors. We have about 230 Waverider customers online right now.
They are the most reliable wireless systems we have online.
Scriv


Charles Wu wrote:

Canopy 900 has close to 4 Mb of aggregate *REAL* thoughput now in 2x mode

-Charles

---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput


I do not think you will find any 900 Mhz 2M X 2M solutions out there
that will scale well. I use Waverider and it works really well for my
service. I offer two plans. 768K and 256K up and down. I can get about
70 to 100 clients per sector with Waverider running this way. I think
the polling MAC in Waverider keeps the max speed per client at about 1.5
meg up and down. If I have someone needing 2M or more I sell them a
connection to my Trango AP.
Scriv


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:



Anyone with real-world experience with them?

I sell 2M X 2M connections... will WR gear keep up with this, and what is
the maximum available real throughput?   Not radio rates, but real-world
throughput?



North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
---
-
-





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RE: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput

2005-08-25 Thread Charles Wu
I take it from this post regarding Canopy that the other systems you
tested were not as much speed? 

Yes

If you want to compare then let us see what you have seen for all the 
systems you have tested. Let's compare apples to apples. 

We have already done that

-Charles


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Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput

2005-08-25 Thread Dylan Oliver
Great! Please do send me a private email with vendor-unfiltered results when assembled :)
Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput

2005-08-25 Thread John Scrivner
Please keep private show only emails off list unless you have data to 
share with the group.

Scriv



Charles Wu wrote:


Hi Dylan,
 
We are working on gathering all the presentations
Trust me, with our testing, there is A LOT of behind the scenes 
wrangling (including bitching/threats from losing manufacturers) 
that goes on
 
-Charles
 
 


---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com http://www.wispnog.com/
August 15-17, 2005

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dylan Oliver
*Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:31 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Waverider 900 mhz throughput

Regarding which, when will the reports on 900 MHz et al be
released to attendees of the conference?

Wondering what to do with my waverider given new dedication to
Moto...

ooh, I think I'll coin a new term: Moto Ho
-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 


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