Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

2009-06-21 Thread Charles Wyble
A good custom fw package is http://ff-firmware.sourceforge.net/

L. Aaron Kaplan wrote:
 As far as I am informed, the Athens wireless folks use a custom built  
 OLSR package for Microtik.
 I think I could put that onto the www.olsr.org page
 
 FYI: OLSR.org is proven to scale to at least 1000 nodes. We currently  
 estimate a few thousand nodes is possible with linksys 200MHz devices.  
 Tests between Freifunk and Funkfeuer cross connection showed that 1000  
 nodes work.
 
 best,
 a.
 
 
 On Jun 19, 2009, at 5:28 AM, Butch Evans wrote:
 
 On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 22:19 -0400, Scott Carullo wrote:
 Butch, MT has some Mesh support built in now, I assume you have  
 tested it
 and / or helped others who may have deployed, whats your feedback on
 functionality and stability? Ready for real world deployment?
 I've tested it in numerous configurations in a lab environment.
 Configuration is quick and easy.  It works pretty well for small
 deployments, but does not work well when a router has multiple  
 wireless
 interfaces that are part of the mesh.  If the configuration includes
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

2009-06-19 Thread L. Aaron Kaplan

As far as I am informed, the Athens wireless folks use a custom built  
OLSR package for Microtik.
I think I could put that onto the www.olsr.org page

FYI: OLSR.org is proven to scale to at least 1000 nodes. We currently  
estimate a few thousand nodes is possible with linksys 200MHz devices.  
Tests between Freifunk and Funkfeuer cross connection showed that 1000  
nodes work.

best,
a.


On Jun 19, 2009, at 5:28 AM, Butch Evans wrote:

 On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 22:19 -0400, Scott Carullo wrote:
 Butch, MT has some Mesh support built in now, I assume you have  
 tested it
 and / or helped others who may have deployed, whats your feedback on
 functionality and stability? Ready for real world deployment?

 I've tested it in numerous configurations in a lab environment.
 Configuration is quick and easy.  It works pretty well for small
 deployments, but does not work well when a router has multiple  
 wireless
 interfaces that are part of the mesh.  If the configuration includes




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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

2009-06-19 Thread Matt Jenkins
What equipment?

Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net wrote:
 Can do everything on this, but the cost.  Looks like around $515 in 
 single unit pricing.  Shoot me a call if you have questions.

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
 http://www.linktechs.net/
 */ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com/*

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
 Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
 for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
 review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any 
 action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than 
 the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
 received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material 
 from any computer.

  



 Jerry Richardson wrote:
   
 I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am 
 finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a 
 true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true 
 Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts 
 however that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
  
 If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would 
 it look like?
  
 My wish would look something like this:
 - Dual radio
 - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
 - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
 - Automatic scan for best channel
 - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
 - BW allocation per SSID
 - QoS per VLAN
 - Encryption
 - Client Isolation
 - SNMP v1, v2
 - Ping watchdog
 - Push/Pull config
 - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
 - 10/100 Ethernet
 - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
 - Browser Configurable
 - POE
 - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party 
 support/forums/mail lists)
 - FCC certified as a system
 - Cost 350.00
  
 Let me know what you would like to see as I am working with a 
 manufacturer to develop this or something very close to it.
  
  
 airCloud Communications
 /Broadband for Business/
 /Public and Private WiFi/
 // 
 Jerry Richardson
 VP Operations
 925-260-4119
 _
  
 *ConsuWISP*
 /RF Topographical Coverage Maps/
 /Network Optimization and Planning/
 /Network Design and Troubleshooting/
 /Installer and Technician Training/
 // 
 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354
  
 P Please consider the environment before printing this email
  
 


 
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

2009-06-18 Thread Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net
Can do everything on this, but the cost.  Looks like around $515 in 
single unit pricing.  Shoot me a call if you have questions.

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com/*

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Jerry Richardson wrote:
 I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am 
 finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a 
 true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true 
 Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts 
 however that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
  
 If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would 
 it look like?
  
 My wish would look something like this:
 - Dual radio
 - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
 - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
 - Automatic scan for best channel
 - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
 - BW allocation per SSID
 - QoS per VLAN
 - Encryption
 - Client Isolation
 - SNMP v1, v2
 - Ping watchdog
 - Push/Pull config
 - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
 - 10/100 Ethernet
 - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
 - Browser Configurable
 - POE
 - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party 
 support/forums/mail lists)
 - FCC certified as a system
 - Cost 350.00
  
 Let me know what you would like to see as I am working with a 
 manufacturer to develop this or something very close to it.
  
  
 airCloud Communications
 /Broadband for Business/
 /Public and Private WiFi/
 // 
 Jerry Richardson
 VP Operations
 925-260-4119
 _
  
 *ConsuWISP*
 /RF Topographical Coverage Maps/
 /Network Optimization and Planning/
 /Network Design and Troubleshooting/
 /Installer and Technician Training/
 // 
 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354
  
 P Please consider the environment before printing this email
  



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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

2009-06-18 Thread 3-dB Networks
Your missing management... and that is going to be a major player.

Managing 100 nodes isn't something you want to do one by one.  You're going
to have to have a strong NMS server behind it.

Also, what about self-healing the mesh?  Heck, without a strong NMS platform
how is the mesh created?

I'm sure I could dig into more :-)

I really question you can get a $350 per node system when all of the ones
out there that are true muni type are much more expensive - MotoMesh Duo is
expensive for a reason I'd think besides just being Moto.

Also... you need to define how many nodes can be in the mesh

I think getting DFS compliance on the 5GHz backhaul might be expensive...

My 2 cents.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:47 AM
To: Motorola Canopy User Group
Cc: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

Can do everything on this, but the cost.  Looks like around $515 in
single unit pricing.  Shoot me a call if you have questions.

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
http://www.linktechs.net/
*/ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com/*

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended
only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of
any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities
other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
material from any computer.





Jerry Richardson wrote:
 I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
 finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
 true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
 Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts
 however that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.

 If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would
 it look like?

 My wish would look something like this:
 - Dual radio
 - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
 - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
 - Automatic scan for best channel
 - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
 - BW allocation per SSID
 - QoS per VLAN
 - Encryption
 - Client Isolation
 - SNMP v1, v2
 - Ping watchdog
 - Push/Pull config
 - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
 - 10/100 Ethernet
 - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
 - Browser Configurable
 - POE
 - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party
 support/forums/mail lists)
 - FCC certified as a system
 - Cost 350.00

 Let me know what you would like to see as I am working with a
 manufacturer to develop this or something very close to it.


 airCloud Communications
 /Broadband for Business/
 /Public and Private WiFi/
 //
 Jerry Richardson
 VP Operations
 925-260-4119
 _

 *ConsuWISP*
 /RF Topographical Coverage Maps/
 /Network Optimization and Planning/
 /Network Design and Troubleshooting/
 /Installer and Technician Training/
 //
 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354

 P Please consider the environment before printing this email





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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

2009-06-18 Thread Butch Evans
On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 11:46 -0500, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net wrote:
 Can do everything on this, but the cost.  Looks like around $515 in 
 single unit pricing.  Shoot me a call if you have questions.

And the following:

  - Automatic scan for best channel
  - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
  - Browser Configurable
  - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party 
  support/forums/mail lists)
  - FCC certified as a system

Mikrotik cannot do those.  I guess it depends on what ready to hang
means, so you MAY have that one.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

2009-06-18 Thread Scott Carullo
Butch, MT has some Mesh support built in now, I assume you have tested it 
and / or helped others who may have deployed, whats your feedback on 
functionality and stability? Ready for real world deployment?

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102

 Original Message 
 From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com
 Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:59 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network
 
 On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 11:46 -0500, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net wrote:
  Can do everything on this, but the cost.  Looks like around $515 in 
  single unit pricing.  Shoot me a call if you have questions.
 
 And the following:
 
   - Automatic scan for best channel
   - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
   - Browser Configurable
   - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party 
   support/forums/mail lists)
   - FCC certified as a system
 
 Mikrotik cannot do those.  I guess it depends on what ready to hang
 means, so you MAY have that one.
 
 -- 
 
 * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
 * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
 * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
 * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
 
 
 
 
 
 


 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 


  
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

2009-06-18 Thread Butch Evans
On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 22:19 -0400, Scott Carullo wrote:
 Butch, MT has some Mesh support built in now, I assume you have tested it 
 and / or helped others who may have deployed, whats your feedback on 
 functionality and stability? Ready for real world deployment?

I've tested it in numerous configurations in a lab environment.
Configuration is quick and easy.  It works pretty well for small
deployments, but does not work well when a router has multiple wireless
interfaces that are part of the mesh.  If the configuration includes
only one wireless card in the mesh (even if there are multiple ethernet
cards in the mesh), it does work well.  Traffic engineering is much
easier (and works better) than straight bridging (WDS).  If the meshed
wireless card is also providing access, I have seen the mesh stability
rapidly ebb away.  I believe this is due to the fact the fact that the
radio I was testing with (a laptop) has a tendency to remodulate from
time to time.  I don't think it's outside the realm of real world to
see modulation speed change with clients, either.  

Another thing I noticed in my testing was that performance occasionally
went into the toilet.  I am not sure why this was happening.  It had
nothing to do with RF when I noticed this.  I believe it had to do with
the mesh recalculating the paths when one link or another remodulated
after sitting idle for a time, though I never caught it doing this.

Generally speaking, I'd say that the mesh is working, but it is still
very beta.  If your configuration is backhaul devices with an AP (dual
radio OR single radios), then I don't think you'll have much trouble
with it.  I would not call the current implementation production ready,
however.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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